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- Transcript of Oral History Interview with Azucena Esparza Hernandez, 2023
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- COVID-19 Oral History Project
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B= Bethany Harvey (interviewer)
A= Azucena Esparza Hernandez (narrator)
B: Hello and welcome to the Augsburg University covid-19 pandemic oral history project
for Professor Michael Lansing’s History 300 public history class. Today I am
interviewing a friend of mine who is also a fellow Aug...
Show more B= Bethany Harvey (interviewer) A= Azucena Esparza Hernandez (narrator) B: Hello and welcome to the Augsburg University covid-19 pandemic oral history project for Professor Michael Lansing’s History 300 public history class. Today I am interviewing a friend of mine who is also a fellow Augsburg student. My interviewee has experienced Augsburg classes and campus life during the trenches of the pandemic, the beginning of the pandemic. It is currently 8:38 on April 3rd of 2023 in Minneapolis Minnesota. B: Alrighty can you state your full name and your pronoun A: Yes, I go by Azucena Esparza Hernandez and I use they/she pronoun B: And what is you year and your majo A: I’m a third year majoring in studio art and art educatio B: And when was your rst year living on campus A: My rst year was in 2020. (Fall 2020). B: How did covid affect your living situation, like on campus A: There were de nitely a lot of restrictions relating to living on campus so it was hard to kind of get to places just with knowing the restrictions of leaving your room sometimes felt like a chore because you kind of had to be prepared for leaving. You had to be prepared to be outside and cautious of the environment so going to the dining hall and making sure you had your mask on and checking when the bathrooms were open while they were being sanitized as well as the restrictions for campus events making sure to check in and I thought things were sanitized and wearing your name with social life and meeting new people was hard also when everything was online and events were. so yeah . s ? s n ? ? r fi fi fi B: So you found that kind of challenging A: I found that challenging as well but I think there were some positive aspects to it as well because I was able to choose what I wanted to attend to and what I didn't and when I did have that motivation to get outside there were things for me to do. B: So our rst year were we were obviously very isolated and our dorms and I was wondering if you could talk about how you went about making friends and how you went about doing that, like what tools did you use and what resources did you take advantage of, like campus events or social media and such and if like you had a roommate and what and how you got the roommate A: Another thing that was hard for my rst year living on campus was that I really have to nd my own way to make friends on my own I found my rst roommate through the Facebook group and then I had to reach out on my own and follow people on social media from just the zoom display names and nd my own way to like make my own friendships whereas if we had been in person I would kind of be forced to see the same people all three times a week and then I'd have to talk to them in person and do that so it was hard but I learned new skills having to make and build friendships. B: So you mentioned you had a roommate, did you nd any challenges with having a roommate with the online courses because obviously you both had to do like Zoom courses in your dorm in such close quarters, can you just explain some of those challenges A: Honestly I think most of the time our schedules were pretty different from each other so they didn't overlap but I do remember we would have meetings sometimes that would overlap and I remember my roommate once had a meeting with her advisor for classes and I just sort of had to put my headphones on which feel a little silly but it was kind of what we had to do and something else that was kind of fun was that during our oor meetings for our dorm we would get to join them together on Zoom which was like on the same screen. B: And can you describe like your extracurricular activities that you did during the pandemic fl fi fi fi fi fi fi ? fi ? fi ? fi A: So my rst year I joined student government and I actually ran for a rst-year class president and won so that's what I did my rst year and it's funny thinking about it now because the only really motivation that I had to go for that was because everything was online and over zoom and I knew I would be able to get to the meetings because it was just opening up my laptop which is different than now where I don't think I would have the time or energy to do that because I know I'd have to get up and get to the bus and go go to campus and go to the meetings which I think that affected my like motivation to be in different groups but I've been a part of the Echo for all of my time at Augsburg which is really interesting to me to see how it's changed. Kind of the same thing I joined because I know I'd be able to get to the meetings and also I was just interested in being a part of something else my rst year and I was the opinions editor for a semester until we went back in person and I decided that I would be more t for something more visual so I also applied for the layout editor job I just found myself enjoying that a lot more and being able to go into the of ce and physically work on the paper rather than emailing people back and forth, so that has been a big change too B: So you say like the beginning of the pandemic kind of open you up to ease into bigger groups like echo and day student government A: Yeah I would say so. B: How did covid effect the classes you were taking that rst year A: During my rst year I was a political science major and I wasn't entirely sure what I wanted to do but taking those classes online and seeing how different are rather how much professors didn't change their material to be updated to teach over Zoom made me realize that that wasn't really what I wanted to do and how there are so many different teaching methods to be more helpful for zoom. B: Did you nd anything challenging with the zoom classes at all A: Not having a lot of interest in classes was a challenge but also something I added to it that was Professor is kind of just going through slides and not really changing up their material for that and because of that again not having the motivation to log into Zoom or keep my camera on to participate in class. B: Do you feel as though you got us suf cient education through these online classes A: I think so although it was boring I think it was kind of the only thing I had to do during covid so it was good to dedicate myself to it. ? ? ? fi fi ? fi fi fi ? fi fi B: So during our sophomore year we had a in person classes but the masks were still mandated so can you describe how like the mask mandate affected your classes / education at Augsburg A: I don't think that it affected my education too much but it was really nice to know that everyone was protected and we were all following it and we're all able to keep healthy and keep her community health B: How were your classes set up differently to accommodate for the mask mandate A: sometimes there would be more space between students other times not so much it really depended on the class all right and do your current learning environments differ from one nice room and aided do you think I think so there's a lot more activities now I feel like in my classes which has been really fun where I was before professors were kind of have to give a disclaimer being like we can't really do this activity because we can't we have to maintain that space between us but now that has kind of wind it down do you think it's easier to like enjoy your classes without the mess and like make friends and be social and stuff. I think so being able to see people's faces and expressions and hear them a little bit clearer but I think when we had to wear masks we all kind of knew the reason why so. B: Can you explain the transition from zoom classes to in-person classes with masks and then in-person classes with no masks, when the mask mandate was lifted back like after spring break last year, and then if there's any difference between your the classes when after the Mandate was lifted to your current classes right now A: I think one of the biggest transitions was from Zoom classes to in-person classes with mask because being in person with everyone you could kind of realize how big your class was and like all of the people that were really in your class and that was a really positive transition for me I think being able to see everyone physically. It wasn't so much of a very dif cult transition to go from a classes with mask to in person with it was positive transition because I feel like being able to see people's faces in their expressions and getting to talk to people a little bit more from my classes was exciting and new and then from then to now wasn't so much of a big transition I feel like everyone's sort of get more used to being in classes and going back to quote-unquote normal. B: And can you describe any major changes from pre-pandemic to post pandemic? I guess we started at Augsburg like fall of 2020 so that's not really pre-pandemic, but I guess if you could describe if you notice anything like different from then to now, obviously there's some big big changes but like anything else you know ? ? ? y fi A: Yeah I think one of those big changes has been Community I think everyone has been coming together a lot more and I feel like that's one of the more obvious ones you were talking about but also I have noticed people caring for each other a lot differently I think especially at Augsburg when we have all these resources like a covered the share shop there's a lot of different opportunities for people to help each other out just been really positive and good to see. B: Do you think Augsburg did a suf cient job at handling the pandemic A: I think in general yes looking at other schools and how they handled it one of the big reasons why I chose to come to Augsburg was because they were helping out a lot of students in need during the pandemic so I got way better nancial aid at Augsburg because of the pandemic and that obviously has changed my life course just for my education and I think that was really positive because a lot of schools weren't really doing that as well as having a mask mandate in like really enforcing all of the covid precautions that we had and housing students that needed to be isolated and there were like some smaller things needed to be dealt with regarding that housing kind of like later in the pandemic there were some things that kind of got paid less attention to because of the pandemic. But I think overall I think it has done a suf cient job. B: Do you think like anything more could have been done A: Yeah I think just like keeping that same rate of attention to covid precautions throughout like all of the years that I went down would have been good but like I understand the needs a kind of let go of some of them as people were getting vaccinated and healing I guess. B: Do you think if a pandemic or something similar would happen again do you think Augsburg would be like prepared for it more A: I think so I'm having that pandemic team that they had put together was smart and like knowing what to do in those situations and I feel I would feel comfortable being at Augsburg if that ever happens again. B: all right and do you have any last questions for me or for the project at all A: I don’t think I do ? ? ? fi fi ? fi ! B: Alright thank you so much!!
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- Title
- Transcript of Oral History Interview with Dorris Carter-Murry, 2023
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- COVID-19 Oral History Project
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[HXS300] Augsburg COVID-19 Oral Hxstory
Project (2023) - Dor...
Sun, Apr 16, 2023 5:08PM
44:29
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, people, custodian, pandemic, husband, felt, students, happened, interview, addition, campus,
home, minnesota, supervisor, hospital, doors, pre, post, supported, libra...
Show more [HXS300] Augsburg COVID-19 Oral Hxstory Project (2023) - Dor... Sun, Apr 16, 2023 5:08PM 44:29 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, people, custodian, pandemic, husband, felt, students, happened, interview, addition, campus, home, minnesota, supervisor, hospital, doors, pre, post, supported, library SPEAKERS Dorris Carter-Murray, Kay Carvajal Moran Kay Carvajal Moran 00:00 Yes, I can see you. Yeah Today is Sunday, April 16 2023. My name is Kay, Carvajal Moran, I'm interviewing doors Carter Murray for the 300 public history class which is conducting an oral history project of Augsburg during the pandemic. Please note that you will be recorded and this will be stored in an archive and is going to be made accessible to people. If there is any question that you do not want to answer to the interview, that's perfectly fine. If there's something that you want to talk about, please let me know and we can include it. Your participation is voluntarily and you are free to leave at any point. May we start the interview we may Can you introduce yourself? Please state your name, your last name, preferred name and your pronouns? D Dorris Carter-Murray 01:02 Dorris Carter-Murray. Preferred name Dorris pronouns she her. Kay Carvajal Moran 01:13 Can you please tell me a little bit about yourself for example, about your upbringing growing up, or just a little bit about your family. D Dorris Carter-Murray 01:20 Okay, so I'm the next to the youngest. I was born and raised in Chicago, Illinois. April 28. Basically had well, with the exception that unfortunately, my father passed away. When I was six months. I had a pretty poor upbringing and my mom was the strongest woman I have ever meet my hero. I have five older brothers, a younger brother and one sister. That's basically it Kay Carvajal Moran 02:05 How do you ended up here, Minnesota? D Dorris Carter-Murray 02:07 I ended up here in Minnesota. After I worked for a hospital in Indiana, I lived in Gary Indiana from like 1993 up until 2012. I worked at a hospital there was that employment ended I had an option to go to Little Rock Arkansas. And, and my older brother one of my older brothers who's a pastor here, you know, he used like, you'll know nobody in Arkansas why don’t you come and check out Minnesota. And here I am. Kay Carvajal Moran 02:55 Okay, do you have any like favorite hobbies or I don't know like, D Dorris Carter-Murray 03:00 right now. I really do have a time for hobbies as an education support professional for the Osseo school district as Zane wood Elementary School in addition, I also worked at Planet Fitness. In addition also either work security or guest services at US Bank Stadium or Target Center and I also have a husband who's in a nursing home so basically you can say my hobby is trying to spend as much time with my husband as possible. Kay Carvajal Moran 03:45 till you're a busy woman. Hmm. D Dorris Carter-Murray 03:47 Pretty much Kay Carvajal Moran 03:48 three jobs. Yeah, wow. Okay, well, there are going to be three parts of the interview. So I'm going to be asking you questions about Augsburg and before COVID. So this part is going to be about just pre COVID. So can you state the position that you hold that Augsburg in how long were you in that position? D Dorris Carter-Murray 04:16 Okay, so I was employed here at Augsburg from February 2018. I left in June of 2021. And then came back in January 2022. and left again in January 2023. Kay Carvajal Moran 04:41 Can you tell me how you came across Augsburg? Why? Why work here at Augsburg? D Dorris Carter-Murray 04:47 Well you know what the thing is? I would always pass by Augsburg when I was working at Fairview the hospital up here. And so it was Augsburg College at the time. And while pursuing my human services degree at Minneapolis College, Minneapolis Community and Technical College I had the unfortunate event of doing my final semester, I had to do an internship. And my current supervisor was out on maternity leave, and her supervisor cut my hours and we're talking like $300 of pay so I happen to see that Augsburg was hiring and I applied and was invited to interview and interview with Charmaine Murphy, Michelle Neice, who unfortunately passed away ended up in a position that I mean, I Augsburg lovely place to work. You know, but you know, I have two college degrees and you know, I had potential to do other things and wanting to explore other things. Kay Carvajal Moran 06:22 Gotcha. Well, I mean, you, you, you touch to the question that I want to go to, which is can you tell me about or, can you describe the culture at Augsburg as a D Dorris Carter-Murray 06:35 Well Augsburg is awesome culture. While, here, I mean, I made so many I built so many relationships, not just with my co workers, but with students as well. And it's wonderful, you know, you have to be approachable. You have to talk to people. I mean, you can't Well, I guess that's just my nature in the way my mom taught us, you know, to be approachable. Kay Carvajal Moran 06:38 Yeah. So your position at Augsburg that you got what was it again? I was a custodian custodian, gotcha, custodian. Okay. Well, in that case, talking more about the relationships just you I met you and you are very social person. But can you describe like further the relationship between like, like the first relationship being like, custodian to faculty, then custodian to students and then custodian to staff? All of the like, I mean, you talk about it being positive, but I don't know. Has it ever been? I don't know. There were D Dorris Carter-Murray 07:43 times when it was challenging. Yeah. But, you know, I try not to dwell on that. No, there was some challenges with coworkers never was student Well, you know, students in a sense, so you know, there were certain places there was supposed to be closed at certain times. And, you know, there were certain places there was supposed to be closed at certain times. And, you know, I just had to let them know, or challenges where, you know, it's like, you feel like being a custodian I felt like being a custodian was a thankless job because there were times where I would have to clean spaces where it's the way it was left. You know, me having been in the janitorial custodial field for over 15 years. You know, sometimes you get the feel, you start to feel like people leave stuff a mess because they don't have to clean it up. If they had to do their job, they'd be more mindful of how they're leaving these spaces. And I feel like I felt like administration, you know, should do something to hold these students accountable. You know, because we're, Without being held accountable that just lead to safe spaces. Oh, you know, messed up over and over again. And there were times when I did the library, and they will leave the study rooms just looking atrocious. I know you would leave your house around like that. Why would you leave another space stuff like that? Come on. Seriously now? Yeah. Kay Carvajal Moran 09:33 Okay, perfect. So that was kind of, it seems like there was more like a I wouldn't say negative but like that kind of relationship with students was like, D Dorris Carter-Murray 09:46 Well, I will positive relationship with students because you know, what? I'm there with students, you know. They would clean up after themselves. And I will make it a point to thank them for because it's appreciated. But you want a nice place to study. You want a clean environment. You have to contribute today. You know, yeah, I'm gonna clean it up and I'm gonna go home, you know. So, I mean, ownership is just part of ownership should be everybody's responsibility. Kay Carvajal Moran 10:24 Yeah, for sure. So Pre-COVID. Can you describe your work schedule at Augsburg? So for example, as a custodian with tasks that you need to get done or just your daily duties, D Dorris Carter-Murray 10:41 Pre-COVID. At the time, I'm in addition to be an employee here at Augsburg. I was also a security manager at Lucy Laney Elementary School in North Minneapolis. You know, I had a daily routine. Pre COVID I'm trying to remember because I've done so many areas here. Yes. Pre-COVID what was my? I'm thinking that I was doing the third floor of the Hagfors building and then, everybody had to rebuild it. And that was like, coming into 20. So I had not started. I was supposed to go to midnight overnights during the library, but due to the unfortunate event of my husband becoming ill, I ended up having to take a leave of absence and bartack. I think I was off up until maybe I was off leave in January. I think I came back in like April. And by that time, you know, the pandemic was like full blown. Yeah, there was the shutdown, which was kind of a heartbreaking time because at that time my husband was in the hospital. He had had his leg amputated. I was only able to go and take him food and drop it off. Which is hard because my husband and I had been together for since like 1993. We lived together for a number of years in Gary, Indiana, and he came to Minnesota to marry me. And we really didn't get a chance to have the marriage you know, the marriage that people you know want to cultivate because of the illness and then him being diagnosed with dementia he was sent to a nursing home. You know, and the thing is, marriage vows say to death do us part not till it's no longer convenient. So, you know, by him having came from Indiana to marry me, I felt it was my duty, you know, not just as a wife but as a friend. And as someone who care to let them know that I would never abandon him. Kay Carvajal Moran 13:51 And like I said Dorris like if you know you have like we can take a pause as well. PAUSE So, Doris, you said that after that leave of absence you came back to Augsburg and so that was D Dorris Carter-Murray 14:44 That was while you know, when I came back every was like basically everything had been shut down. You know, there was like, no, practices put in place. And you know, okay, at that time, when I, when I came back, I was doing the library. A, you know, the funny part about that was that, like before I left before the leave of absence and everything. The library was split to two people during the library. However, when I came back off to leave absence, I was doing all four floors. I was kind of perturbed about that. But you know what, it wasn’t so bad. Because basically it was shut down. It was like a ghost town! Really! If you think about it, you know, seeing Augsburg before COVID You know, full bloom and everybody's everywhere. It's social. And seeing Oh, Augsburg door. Dewar COVID was just crazy. It was like I said it felt like a ghost town. You know, there was some areas where he was like, What is this? Is it just a pandemic over here and not over here? Yeah, but, you know, it was and then everybody was just like, hypersensitive, okay. Wear your mask, is PvE Okay, gotcha. They had us go through like our areas and, you know, we will have to put dates of sanitation, dates we did these rooms. And if those spaces were used, the person that used them will have to take the notice off. We've had you know, they have to let us know, so we could go back here sanitize that area, put a new load up. That went that went for dorms and then they are they I think they had one of the buildings was used as a quarantine area. Yeah. And you know, the way it was done was kind of make you kind of scratch your head because, you know, here, they tell you on the news. If you fly if you test positive for COVID you quarantine in place, but then they had us they had students moving from the dorm to this other space. Kay Carvajal Moran 17:27 I heard about the Yeah. D Dorris Carter-Murray 17:29 You know it was like Okay. And contaminate everything along the way. You know, and that was the consensus Kay Carvajal Moran 17:39 Kay Carvajal Moran 17:39 Wait where would they put students to do you remember D Dorris Carter-Murray 17:42 it was the OGC Kay Carvajal Moran 17:43 Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. I remember now. D Dorris Carter-Murray 17:46 And I remember being called a couple of times, and we're supposed to walk behind these people sanitizing and everything they touch. Are you serious? Kay Carvajal Moran 17:56 Oh, wow. Really? D Dorris Carter-Murray 17:57 Was crazy. So I think at the time, you know, it was kind of scary because, you know, we were hearing news reports of people actually dying. And then you know what, another thing that kind of made it scary was the whole George Floyd thing. You know, because I remember coming to work. The day the riot started. Kay Carvajal Moran 18:28 Yeah. D Dorris Carter-Murray 18:29 And my supervisor was telling me that they hit that the police had killed this land. Okay. And I thought she said in Chicago, not on Chicago Avenue. And I'm watching this. I saw the video. This man is literally begging for his life or this police officer is kneeling on his neck with his hand in his pocket. Like he's posing for a picture in a magazine. And then I remember being in the library when the riots first began, because I'm kind of following it. Yeah. You know, and when when the looting first started, and then I found out that Metro Transit had shut down all the service. Now I live in Brooklyn Park. And I call my supervisor look, I need to find a way to get home. There's no bus service at all. Nowhere. Yeah. You know, so that and COVID and then you know, like I said the thing with the police and then you had outside instigators Here on campus? No, no, no. I remember, I remember. Go. I did not know how close in proximity because we're the third precinct and it's not very far from here. Kay Carvajal Moran 20:03 No, it's really, really close. D Dorris Carter-Murray 20:04 In fact, a couple of months after all right. I ended up working about two blocks because I worked at Volunteers of America, which is a reentry home. Kay Carvajal Moran 20:16 Gotcha. D Dorris Carter-Murray 20:17 For offenders. It was so eerie. Just seeing everything that was going on. And all it is during the pandemic. It’s a pandemic but y'all looting stores, you know, and I'm sorry. My people suffer for lack of knowledge. You know, it I think at this time, people were called people of color. Were just fed up. Yeah. And it was not just here in, Minnesota, Minneapolis. It was like Kay Carvajal Moran 20:47 Nationwide. D Dorris Carter-Murray 20:48 Yeah, the shot heard around the world, because it was worldwide. Even people in other countries. Were like were tried of this too. I mean, a pandemic on top of social injustice. Yeah. Who would have thought? Who would have thought it? I look forward to read the history books. Only I hope it’s just, not just history. Kay Carvajal Moran 21:16 Yeah, I agree. I think that's why I don't know just even the importance of like doing these like interviews, you know, because I was only going to talk about the pandemic but I you know, that's so true. The pandemic went hand in hand with the, with the uprisings and like, D Dorris Carter-Murray 21:32 D Dorris Carter-Murray 21:32 everything just kind of, you know, what are called 2020 screwed you year because my husband got sick. The pandemic happened, the George Floyd thing happened, you know? And it was just like, the one year everything happened all at the same time. But back to being a custodian here at Augsburg during the pandemic. It was weird because the campus wasn't in full swing like it was. You know, I was, you know, I you know, coming here in late 2018. You know, you see and stuff going on their events, you know, those like just you know, it was just weird. Kay Carvajal Moran 22:28 Yeah. Like seeing Augsburg be like a social butterfly to like, where are the people? D Dorris Carter-Murray 22:35 It was Augsburg in in the cocoon. Kay Carvajal Moran 22:40 Well, I do want to touch on a question about the work you've mentioned about your workload, like doubling or in matter of fact, like quadrupling, I I've heard that from other custodians, where they talked about like this change of environment of Augsburg and how like on the custodian side, the number of of custodians got reduced, and I don't know about the pay like if that got reduced but it was just talking they just talked about how like hey, like our peers like we have a fewer less peers like helping us with this work, you know, and like, was that the same? D Dorris Carter-Murray 23:23 Like I said, there were times when I was asked to cover all this stuff. And, um, you know, like I said, I did Oh, I did have to backtrack a little bit. Because I went from doing Hagfors to doing the cafeteria. And then I went on the leave of absence, and came back and was doing the whole library like I said before I went on leave of absence. The library was split between two people. When I came off the leave of absence and was doing the library I had all four floors. I didn't think it was fair. But because of the the library wasn't as busy as it was before, you know, and so the consensus is, you know, the workloads. You know, like I said, I was doing a whole build and by some of my peers had one floor of one building to do, yeah. And then to be asked to go and do something else in addition, girl, I’m doing four floors, geez. But, I mean, you know what, Augsburg is a workplace. You know, I would recommend, as I did, my brother now works here. Yeah. It's a it's an awesome place to work. That you know, as with any job they're gonna be, they're going to be things that need improvement you know, but up they're gonna live up to change you want to say, for Kay Carvajal Moran 25:27 Sure. I wanted to touch back about the procedures. I know that you mentioned that there was a time where you would follow the student and like if they had COVID, like, spray everything that time where you would follow the student and like if they had COVID, like, spray everything that they would touch, you know, I was just curious about like, were there any other procedures or like I'm curious about the students that live like on campus, because the commuters you know, that kind of took that portion out of the students off campus, but D Dorris Carter-Murray 25:56 Okay, so the day with the students on campus, it was like, everybody, well Ima put it this way. Everybody was supposed to be masked up. You know, social distancing. There were times when I didn't see no social distancing. Was that when people were so close if you wonder where one person ended, another began but overall, the policies that were in that were implemented. I saw no mainly most people following them. They were but like I said, it may feel like a scary time because I don't know Well, I worked in the hospital during the thing where they had the swine flu and they had Ebola. And this this, this was really much more than that. Because, you know, um, just the fact that you know, you had people going into hospitals dying. Yeah. You know, which was one thing with my husband, um, during the lockdown, my husband's birthday is May 7. I had him a cake baked when I took it to the nursing home. They would only let me cut on my slicer his cake out. There would not let me I brought him birthday gifts. They had to be in quarantine. Before they gave them to him. So I mean, it was a scary time. But, you know, I mean, as a as a department, you know, to the custodial department. We banded together and did what we had to do to make a safe, sanitized environment for the community. Kay Carvajal Moran 28:02 You talk about well, you were, you're talking about how you are very impacted. By COVID, your family just anyone your community during COVID with the uprisings. I want to know if you were how where you felt supported by Augsburg Pre-COVID D Dorris Carter-Murray 28:23 You know what Augsburg, wow, they did give the custodians a lot of props. They, they they they made sure we knew that they were grateful. And I think that that was one thing. That resonates with me about working for Augsburg. The supervisory staff, you know, never failed to let us know we appreciate it. The managerial staff, even President Pribbenow Kay Carvajal Moran 29:06 Yeah, D Dorris Carter-Murray 29:07 They all made sure that we knew we were appreciated. And they wanted to keep us protected as well. Kay Carvajal Moran 29:15 That's good. Um, was that also before COVID? D Dorris Carter-Murray 29:18 Yeah. Oh, yeah. Charmaine. She's one of the most inspiring. I mean, you could wake up having a bad day and run into her. And there's some better that will brighten your day. You know, because she had this just positive we can do this attitude. Oscar, you know very helpful. In fact, the supervisors, you know, you could let them know there was something that was needed and even if they couldn't get to it right away. They made sure you knew that they were on it. Kay Carvajal Moran 30:03 Well, I'm glad that you felt and you were supported like pre-COVID, during COVID. What about post COVID? Well, quotation mark, post COVID D Dorris Carter-Murray 30:13 COVID. keep reviving. Yeah. COVID Keeping reinventing itself. Post COVID. You know, that they management and you know, let us know, as things were changing and whatnot. Um, I've always felt supported by you know HR management team. Me and Oscar had our issues for a bit but you know, this like this, you never know what the next person is going through it all. So, you know, sometimes you just have to give pause and extend grace Kay Carvajal Moran 31:06 Do you felt supported in regards to like the benefits that Augsburg offered like will you take time off like was that? D Dorris Carter-Murray 31:15 Well, you know, what? I Can’t say I felt supported because with my husband's illness came up lots of times where I had to call in, stuff would happen. And you know, I reached out to HR and let them know that this is what's happening. You know, and they were very supportive. They were extremely supportive. Back in January, no, December, between November and December. My husband was diagnosed with prostate cancer and I let HR know, and, you know, they gave me to pay for work. And even though I don't take our had, you know, I have just come back. And this is the one thing that was kind of crazy to me. When I first interview to return, I was told that because I hadn't been gone a year, my seniority was still intact. And then later on down the line, I found out that they had it was like starting all over. No, and that's a big difference to go from what was four years. Are we back down to starting over. I was kind of perturbed and felt that was unfair, but it is what it is. Kay Carvajal Moran 32:58 Thank you for sharing that. I guess going back to the personnel or actually Post-COVID. We're gonna go Post-COVID I know that students and our staff they were taking classes online, and then, uh, once Post-COVID You know, like, once everybody's everything started like, you know, like settling down, you know, or like, D Dorris Carter-Murray 33:27 Staring to go back to normal. Kay Carvajal Moran 33:28 Yeah, exactly. We started slowly going back on campus. What the like that that that that like the workload increase. For custodians are like? D Dorris Carter-Murray 33:42 I think it might have because, you know, going back to what was normal, we still had to prepare for it. But it was also a sigh of relief. But then you got to ask yourself we've been through so much what's normal or not know, you don't know what's normal. You know, because, you know, we had the even you know, with the COVID and the uprising then in the trials. Yeah, we're all downtown barricaded. You know, you just had this eerie feeling and like what's gonna happen? Next? But, um, I was well basically, for me, I don't feel like the workload increase. Yeah. It was just, it is what it is. Kay Carvajal Moran 34:50 So, Post-COVID as well. You give a lot of props to your managers, supervisors. And yeah. D Dorris Carter-Murray 35:00 In addition I mean, it was like, their continue appreciation of us. That's what kept us together. kept this thing together. Yeah, you know, um, it helped a lot. They, you know, they acknowledged us Kay Carvajal Moran 35:22 I do want to say that, and that's great, like, giving your credit and acknowledging y'all, but it's very different to keeping y'all safe. The y'all as a custodian. Do you think that Augsburg kept custodian safe? D Dorris Carter-Murray 35:39 Dorris Carter-Murray 35:39 As far as you know, what they made available to us, you know, vaccines were available. In addition, they kept us updated. On the Record, you know, the mask and PPE requirements in addition to you know, the one thing I just wondered about was the whole policy of transferring students that were tested COVID positive to another building. Like I say, my, my thought was that they you were supposed to quarantine and place. Kay Carvajal Moran 36:23 Well, now I'm gonna switch it back to the personnel. I know that you mentioned your husband. But in just like, I guess, personnel and like feel free to say no to answer these questions as well. But how they impact how they COVID impact you or your family either in a positive or a negative way? Yeah, for sure. I know that. Yeah. COVID had, like many, many different impacts for different people, you know, like some were like spiritual some were more negative than positive, you know. So, yeah, just I don't know. I think that D Dorris Carter-Murray 36:45 Well in a negative way, you know, like I said, with the lockdown I was able to see my husband and you just like me and my husband from 1993 to he got sick my husband went into the hospital January 14 and hasn't been home. Before that we live together and me and my husband we just enjoyed each other's company. My husband loves to cook. I do have a date night would be he cook I play some music. He loves Mila highlight. I have we had drinks and listen to music together watch movies together. On Saturday mornings consisted of I cooked breakfast. He loved Westerners. We sit up and watch Bonanza all the Westerners together. So when COVID happened and he was in a facility it impact, it had a bad impact on my family like, in fact no, I think I went through about a depression because here I am. You know, it was like me and my husband first started living together in Indiana. You know, he made a home for me. So I moved here before he did so. By the time we got married. I had an apartment here to furnish just wanted to make a home for my husband. I don't think there was any type of good impact that COVID COVID had. Other than you know, it made me more conscious of trusting God Yeah, I know made me more prayerful. You know, one good thing of the impact that COVID had on me it made me value my marriage and my commitment to my husband because during the lockdown, even though I couldn't see him, I was determined to get up and take him that meal every Friday. Get up and make sure I went to see him even if I could only have a window visit. You know, because, you know, I've seen you know, you know people in the nursing facility that didn't have visitors. And that's got to be really, really long. Yeah. I'm hoping that, you know, my husband, you know, he's a dementia patient. So and that means this illness affects his short term memory. He could tell me any and everything that happened way back when any song I play any oldie but goodie song I play. He can sing it. Tell me the name. Tell me who wrote it. But he couldn't tell me what he had for breakfast this morning. So I mean, when no positive impact COVID had on me. It's just to it made me bring my A game when it came to my marriage for sure. You know, as far as commitment it made me to rely more on God. Because had it not been forgotten. I don't think I would have made it out. I'd probably been suicidal. Kay Carvajal Moran 40:57 Yeah. Well, with that being said Dorris I think those are all my questions. First of all, I want to thank you and all the custodians because honestly, it was y'all that kept us safe. Students, thank you and all the custodians because honestly, it was y'all that kept us safe. Students, staff, faculty, you know, and really had it down for Augsburg, so I think y'all deserve flowers a raise, bonus you know all your hard work. So thank you Dorris like I like I love custodians, you know, it's a job that doesn't get recognized. You know, there was a there was a time in COVID where there was like, oh, yeah, essential workers. That conversation is kind lost. D Dorris Carter-Murray 41:51 squirrely, don't do it and I cracked up at this because, you know, there were people they didn't work didn't burn pay no bills or none, but we'll get an extra extra extra money from from the government. And those of us that work our kisters off because we held mthese essential jobs. Yeah. Thank you, Governor Walz for the whole $750 but you had people getting 600 on top of unemployment? Yeah. I know. I was a building manager for for a apartment complex. There were people that weren't even affected by COVID They was getting rent help. That was on 1000s of dollars behind in rent. But hey, pit bulls living with ‘em. If you can't pay your rent, why? You got a pit bull! I’m just saying. But Oh, well. We live each day in one day at a time just it is what it is. Kay Carvajal Moran 43:05 Well, with that being said, Is there any those are all my questions like I said, Is there anything else that you want to share, get off your chest. Again, this is going to be the in an archive and it's going to be is basically part of history, you know, just by you doing this oral history you're telling one narrative, a custodian narrative you know, D Dorris Carter-Murray 43:29 I just want to say Augsburg was a wonderful place to work. If given the chance, I'd like to come back in a different capacity, possibly public safety. I was Campus Safety Officer at MCAD in Minneapolis College Art and Design. I need to get my driver's license and we'll have a discussion. It'd be like the third time's a charm. Kay Carvajal Moran 43:58 Yes, it is. D Dorris Carter-Murray 43:59 All right, love you Augsburg. Kay Carvajal Moran 44:01 Thank you, Doris. With that being said, thank you for your time. This concludes this oral history. D Dorris Carter-Murray 44:08 All right. 44:13
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- Title
- Transcript of Oral History with David Crowe, 2022
- Collection
- COVID-19 Oral History Project
- Search Result
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49:56
Speaker 1= Andrew Crowe
Speaker 2= David Crowe
Speaker 1
0:00
The following interview was conducted with David Crowe on behalf of Augsburg University for
the Augsburg during COVID oral history project took place on the second of April 2023 in
Eagan, Minnesota and will be stored in th...
Show more 49:56 Speaker 1= Andrew Crowe Speaker 2= David Crowe Speaker 1 0:00 The following interview was conducted with David Crowe on behalf of Augsburg University for the Augsburg during COVID oral history project took place on the second of April 2023 in Eagan, Minnesota and will be stored in the Augsburg archives. The interviewer is Andrew Crowe. So David, could you tell me a little bit about your background and education before you got to Augsburg? Speaker 2 0:23 I got my Bachelor of Arts degree in biochemistry at Gustavus Adolphus College in St. Peter, Minnesota, in 1995. I moved from there to the University of Minnesota where I got my PhD in neuroscience in 2001. Between 2001 and 2008, I did a combination of researching, research and teaching at various times and various combinations over those years and then I was hired by Augsburg College, which was what it was called at the time in 2008, into the biology department. Speaker 1 1:05 What has your experience been at Augsburg since you joined? Speaker 2 1:11 I've been in the biology department since 2008. I primary primarily teach upper level biology courses, neurobiology and physiology every year with a variety of other courses, intermixed those courses and their lab components. Introductory bio honors, science, anatomy and physiology in both types of introductory bio, special topics. So that's been my teaching, I continue to do similar research to what I did. As a graduate student and as a postdoctoral fellow. I still collaborate with Dr. Matt Chafee at the University of Minnesota on our research. So I continue to be involved in research over the last three years. I've been the chair of the biology department. Speaker 1 2:05 Would you say you enjoy working in Augsburg? Speaker 2 2:08 Yes, Augsburg is a great place to work. Great. I work with a great group of people in the biology department. We have great students. It has been generally a pleasure. Yes. Speaker 1 2:21 What made you want to be a professor. Speaker 2 2:26 In college, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I enjoyed science, I was a chemistry tutor. And I kind of learned that I was good at helping students learn things I enjoyed teaching. So in graduate school, and after graduate school, I took the opportunity to get teaching experience to see if that would be something that I would want to do full time and it really clicked with me, I enjoyed it a lot. And so I made it a goal of mine to teach at a place like Augsburg Speaker 1 2:59 like to take us to early 2020. As the news of COVID-19 was spreading throughout the world. Were you following the news that early? Speaker 2 3:13 I was following it fairly closely. It seemed like something that had the potential to be very serious. And what I did personally was find a bunch of scientists, experts in the field who were speaking on social media, in particular on Twitter. And I started following a large number of what I would consider some trustworthy experts. And from them, who were keeping track of something that was inherently confusing and difficult to assess. I could at least keep up with what the experts in the field were thinking at the time. Speaker 1 3:59 So given that you were aware of the potential that this virus had to throw the world off course, were you developing a plan for your classes, even before the school was officially shut down? Speaker 2 4:11 The biology department I think was doing what I was we were following the situation fairly closely. So I think we were thinking about it, maybe maybe before some other other people were. But we really didn't even start thinking about it seriously until maybe a few weeks before the classes did end up going online a few weeks before spring break probably late February, we were starting to discuss contingency plans. Starting to discuss it at first, you know, with our more vulnerable faculty members or our older faculty members be forced to come in. The first options weren't just going online altogether, but maybe having some reduced presence on campus. So we had a lot of different discussions about the potential things that we could end up doing, generally focused initially on on the safety of the most vulnerable. But as the as the pandemic pandemic seemed to be worse and worse, and I think as news out of New York started to show, you know, hospitals being overwhelmed, I think it became clear that more than just keeping our older faculty away was going to going to be necessary. Yeah, we were talking about it. Weeks, a few weeks before, it was actually shut down. And we were keeping track of what other schools were doing, as well. Speaker 1 5:48 Okay. You said the older faculty members were more at risk? Was this? What was sort of the feeling around campus? Were people taking it seriously, did they think it was going to be a big thing, were the students not worried, were the people who were more at risk worried? Did you have to convince people to be worried? Speaker 2 6:11 Definitely, the older faculty members were the most paying the most attention to a generally, and were the most worried as particularly if they had other kinds of health issues that make them even more vulnerable. So not just within the biology department, but across campus, we did hear from older faculty members that they were worried about it. Because I think certainly by the late February, it was clear that this was a disease that affected people who are older, a lot more than college student aged people. I remember at the time in my classes, the students didn't seem to be concerned about it at all, were even a little bit mystified why why we would go online or why classes might be canceled, or why even some faculty members would would not want to come in. So I do think there was a in early March amongst the student population. I sense that this was probably no big deal. I remember, there was a very famous graph shown on social media from scientists became quite well known in terms of flattening the curve, the idea that if cases peak really, really rapidly, they're going to overwhelm the, the countries or regions capacity to help those people in hospitals. And we were seeing that in Italy. We saw that in New York City, right, even in some places here in this country where the disease occurred so quickly. As right. I was able to remind my students how exponential growth works. But yeah, the disease take takes over so quickly that it can can overwhelm the capacity to treat people. And so I was able to sort of show the students this idea of flattening the curve, the idea that perhaps the same number of people will get it. But if there's a way to keep everybody from getting it all at once, we can save many, many more lives that way. And so I used it as an opportunity to teach students about various biological topics, in addition to actually explaining to them what the nature of the threat was. Speaker 1 8:39 Do you think that Augsburg took the threat of COVID as seriously as it should have in the beginning? Do you think they move towards moving online classes at the right pace? What did you think about the process to moving to fully online? Speaker 2 8:57 I know, I remember that we were probably one of the last colleges to make that decision. I know, faculty in the biology department had been paying attention to what other schools around the country were doing. And we're a little dismayed that we weren't going online or suspending classes for a week as quickly as some other places. On the other hand, I think the the disease was peaking more in the northeast of the country. So cases hadn't started to go up here in Minnesota by that time. But yeah, there was there were certainly people who thought we were going too slow, if I remember right. We were or the administration was was listening very closely to Minnesota State Health Department and kind of taking their cues from from that organization. In addition to having the I think they had a COVID task force So I believe the, the head of Augsburg physician assistant program, who is an expert in I think communicable diseases into our public health was part of that decision making group as well. So I personally thought they were being reasonable, but I do know that there were others that thought they were they could have been a little bit more proactive. Speaker 1 10:23 On March 16, Augsburg University announced that it would be moving to fully online classes due to rising cases in the US and Minnesota. What were those last few weeks of the semester, like when everything went online? Speaker 2 10:40 So we, in the biology department, had been making plans for this. Even if it was just for a couple of weeks, we had spring break, and I believe an extra week after spring break just off to help us make that transition. One of the big things with the Biology Department, well for teaching was how we how were we going to continue our labs? You know, these are sort of inherently hands on experiences and and we had a lot of discussions about what we would do. For those, there were there were some thoughts that maybe we would have, you know, some small number of students come in, keep them distanced and still try to do some on or in person, lab work. I think we ultimately decided against that, given what, what we learned over the next couple of weeks about the nature of the disease and things. So we were throwing ideas around, I think, ultimately, what we ended up doing was was doing a lot of biological simulations, it was, of course, a very good opportunity to do disease transmission simulations. And so we did a lot of that type of thing. I personally was teaching neurobiology, for which the labs are very technical. And I was able to find some online replacements for the types of experiments we did, but ultimately found them to be pretty lightweight and not not engaging in either intellectually or in a technical or practical way. The other thing that biology department had to think about, and I wasn't chair at this time, but we were all part of these discussions was we have a greenhouse filled with living organisms and marine aquariums. Both of which need constant work, literally, like literally every day. There's need to be maintained, those need to be plants need to be watered. Fish needs to be fed. filters need to be changed. So we had to think about how we were going to make sure that our facilities our living organisms, were going to survive over the course of however long we were out. Speaker 1 13:17 Did they have someone come in? I'm assuming and take care of those? Speaker 2 13:20 literally. Leon Vanek our botanist, came in and made sure the plants lived and Bill Catman runs the marine aquariums would come in every day, they would just have to make sure no one else was around and time so that they could do it in isolation. But Speaker 1 13:46 yeah, so you were Chair of the Academic Affairs Committee in the spring of 2020. Could you describe a little bit about what the Academic Affairs Committee normally does, and then what it had to do during the shutdown? Speaker 2 14:02 So the Academic Affairs Committee is the Committee on campus that approves any changes to the academic program. And that can be anything from a description of a course or the title change of a course even to approving new courses to approving new majors. During that spring we had been having and actually the entire school year, we had just wrapped up a campus wide look at a proposed general education plan that would would change all of our liberal arts foundations and things and, and so I the maybe the week or a week or two before the pandemic hit, I gave a presentation at a faculty meeting giving the Academic Affairs response to the proposal. We No voted it voted no overall on it. So that kind of thing changes the academic plan, changes in grading systems. The other thing that we were doing in this case, fortuitously, during that academic year, as one of the things I wanted to make happen was a committee of technological, if not specialists, but some group on campus. To take a look strategically at how we use technology would vary specifically, with regards to teaching courses online. Again, this was all before the pandemic hit we, we had a sort of an ad hoc decision making structure for accepting courses to be taught online. And I thought it would be useful to have a sort of a broader discussion about where the college university goes, in terms of how we offer things online, as it was, we could have probably just accepted piecemeal courses to be taught online, then all of a sudden, you know, when Augsburg student could potentially get an entire major online, right without ever visiting campus. And so I thought it was important that we had sort of a more strategic discussion about where we were going with that. It turned out that that group of people that we had gotten together on with us now the technical TEL area, it's all I remember technology and technology enhanced learning committee, maybe I should probably know the name of that those people became a huge boon to the campus because they could get together as a group and start helping the campus together, prepare for online learning. And so it was nice to have them all together at the same time. So that was kind of fortuitous that they were already meeting and talking about technology. Speaker 1 17:03 What specific challenges did you face on that committee? After it went online? Speaker 2 17:11 We've almost entirely had to drop our normal slate of proposals to begin dealing with changes to the academic proposal, the academic program necessitated by the pandemic, one of the first things that we did was see proposals from various places on campus. Student Success Office run by Katie Bishop, putting in proposals that we're going to help students through what was going to obviously be a stressful time. And so one of the first things that we did was, I believe, pass a proposal that allowed students to opt to take a course pass fail, and not have it count towards the limit of of Pass Fail courses, the, you're allowed to typically have, I believe, we also let them choose whether they would get pass fail at the end of the semester, once they saw their grade. So some very specific proposals came in very early, trying to cope with the fact that that, right, this was going to be difficult for everybody. We also heard from Student Government, and so the student government was a strong voice for the students. And it really impressed on us how stressful this was for the students. Once we were in our zoom classes, it was it was hard to interface with the students and sort of in a personal way, right. And it was much, much harder to get their feedback. So it was really, really useful to have student government come to AC and explained that students were really stressed out about it. They have some very specific proposals for how they thought classes should be should be graded. The Academic Affairs Committee discussed those specific proposals, we sent them on to the Faculty Senate, in our group that would be looking at something like that. And we took them very seriously. And ultimately, what we did is we came up with a number of policies that we thought would be fair, but also make sure that we were still doing our job educating students, we need to make sure that we are still maintaining our accreditation. Giving every student today is not something that the accreditors would generally see as fulfilling our educational mission. We looked at what other students other schools were doing, and we tried to just just do what we thought was was best in terms of the academic mission of the college but also understanding that this was an unprecedented moment for both faculty and students. In addition to some of the formal policy changes that we signed off on, we also wanted to I think this was one of the main things in response to the student concerns is that we wanted to let the faculty across campus know, what the students were thinking without having them write, interact. So we were sort of a conduit for the students concerns. And so we put out a statement that essentially said, you know, this is new territory for us, all students are, you know, never signed up for online courses, you know, they never signed up for any of this, a lot of them are going to be in really challenging home situations, dealing with financial stresses and potentially right COVID At home. And so we sort of strongly recommended that, that faculty deal with students in a way that was ultimately, you know, compassionate. That was, that was the sort of thing we wanted to stress, we had some specific recommendations about extending deadlines and, and other other things grading on curves. If you don't normally do that. You We can't tell faculty what to do. That's, you know, a strong pillar of, of an academic institution is academic freedom, right? We are given the freedom, and there's responsibility to treat the teach our classes as we think is best. And so anytime that that you want to get all the faculty to do something together, it can be difficult. And so knowing that, like not every faculty member will be on board with everything, we felt like we excuse me, we felt like a strong plea to the faculty that we we put on the website, and it was sent out sort of daily in the Augsburg mail that goes out every day, we sent that out a number of times, just a request that faculty treat students with compassion. And we all treat each other with compassion as well. And understand that this is difficult for everybody. So I think I think ultimately, I think ultimately, that is actually what happened. Speaker 1 22:33 What plans were made in the summer of 2020. Regarding the upcoming school year, did they ever consider a hybrid model? A hybrid model, like the ones that high schools in the state were using? Or were they set from the beginning on fully online? Speaker 2 22:50 No, there was a lot of discussion. In that summer, about what the school was going to do, I remember filling out a survey that asked about what I, you know, got my opinion on it. I remember being mildly offended when it seemed like it was worded as if I were not fulfilling my duty if I wasn't coming in and teaching classes online. And I know, again, some of our older faculty members were not entirely pleased by the the implied suggestion that if they weren't doing coming in the they were letting everybody down. So I remember early on in the in the summer, there was a lot of uncertainty. But I believe at some point in time, maybe mid June, I don't remember remember the timeline. But at some point in time, there was a realization that the fall for sure was going to be online. And that probably spring is as well. And so throughout the entire summer, from the moment I became chair, on May 1, we as a biology department would have regular meetings, essentially discussing what we were going to do with both our curriculum. We have a lot of lab classes and we have a lot of things we want our students to learn before they move on. But also how we were going to approach our individual courses you know, in the fall, sorry, in the spring I don't believe many of us were familiar with or had the the option to jump on on Zoom and use them for our classes. So in general, we all move to a sort of asynchronous online format in the in the for the last few weeks of spring. But we started becoming more familiar with Zoom, all of our meetings, of course, were held over zoom, we all got a lot more familiar and if not happy with it, at least used to using it and so we We felt like we were going to be able to deliver our courses, or at least the lecture portions of our courses over zoom. Any port in the storm, I guess, right, it's nice. We no one thought it was going to be optimal. But we talked a lot about how to do it as best we could. And we all help each other out. We all helped plan the introductory courses, which are kind of the most important courses for our students coming in. We needed to decide what those students what experience they would get as first year college students coming in. And if it were going to be online, how to give them the best, the best learning opportunity that they could. In terms of labs, we did decide that we were going to try to do a lot of simulations for the introductory courses. A lot of what they learn is, can be can be simulated, but we knew that they were going to be lacking a lot of hands on technical skills. For sophomore level classes, we had to cancel our cell biology lab, which is one of the places where they learn a lot of techniques that they will use throughout the course of the rest of their career at Augsburg as biology majors. So we had to make some contingency plans for that. We knew that sophomore level genetics course could have quite a bit of online component. There's a lot of things you can do with online genetic databases. And so we were as a as a group planning some of our what we call our course, core courses, first year biology courses, and then our sophomore level courses, all all bio students have to take those. So as a group, we worked together on those. And then we just discussed amongst ourselves, you know, the things that we were planning on doing for our own upper level courses. So we worked quite a bit together during that summer, in preparation, Speaker 1 27:04 you mentioned you became department chair that may Could you tell me a little bit about what that entails? Speaker 2 27:12 Yes, to some extent, I could never give you a complete description of all of the things that the department chair does. The department chair essentially is the administrator for the departments pays attention to course schedules hires adjuncts, who are part time faculty that need to take teach classes that we don't have full time faculty to teach. The chair deals with the budget, which was a completely up ended during the COVID years. The chair deals with any questions that students have of the department, it could be complaints, or it could be questions about the schedules. The chair organizes departmental meetings and works with the faculty on things that the department was working on. Before the pandemic, the biology department had big plans to begin working on developing a new curriculum for our first year and potentially second year courses. That was one of the things that we had planned and that the pandemic disrupted, we were also going to undergo what's called program review. So every so often, every department has to undergo an external review by external reviewers. And we were planning on doing that as well that got up to up ended by the pandemic. In biology, there's a lot of management of the lab spaces. We have a lab manager that helps out with that as well, but keeping track of the use of the labs as well. I'm sure there are lots of things I'm missing. I'm very, very busy as department chair Speaker 1 29:14 That sounds like a lot of work. Speaker 2 29:17 Basically anything that comes up and so it's always you know, it's always something different. Speaker 1 29:23 Yeah. You kind of touched on it a little earlier. But what were some of the difficulties in the 2020 2021 school year, the first full year of the pandemic. Speaker 2 29:38 We can discuss that unless you wanted to discuss teaching during the Speaker 1 29:45 Oh yeah, I mean, what were some difficulties with teaching during that year? Speaker 2 29:49 I forgot what year was which. This is the this is the online year yeah. So as as much as we can worked together and prepared. And as much as we continued as a biology department to work, talk with each other about how things were going, it was still still fairly difficult. We were all doing this for the first time. Like I said, the there were a lot of useful resources developed by the technology committee that were available to us, we made full use of all of those. All that I believe one of our classes in biology was taught synchronously, online. And we thought that was important, we thought that having that the back and forth having students be present, if even if a resume was important, so almost all of our classes were done synchronously using Zoom. I think here, my personal recollection is probably the most the most useful be the first semester, one of the courses I was teaching was animal physiology. I had for many years prior to the pandemic, wanted to flip the classroom teaching technique by which students sort of learned the basics before coming to class. And then we use the class time to have discussions and things and, and I had tried that with getting the students to do reading before class, but I was never really able to, I think be strict enough to enforce it, just because it's easier for the students and easier for me not to have done it. So the pandemic, actually in the the fact that everything was going to be on a computer, allowed me to, to actually flip the classroom. And to do that I did one of the other strategies, which is to record a video lecture. And so my goal was to have a video lecture pre recorded for every class period. And then we would use the class period, for discussion for problems for q&a. Any number of different ways that we could make use of that time? That wasn't just me. Right? lecturing, they could watch that beforehand. And then we could use the zoom time. Better, I would have Google documents were students who had been randomly assigned into groups could get together and write out answers on a active as a Google slide because they could draw pictures, but they'd write out answers to study questions or to discussion questions. And then they would go into zoom groups together and do that. And then we often meet at the end of class together and discuss everybody's answers. So you know, that's the, that's the dream is that they'd all get together and discuss the questions and we could talk about it. In reality, a lot of students, you know, logged in, but probably never contributed to discussions, I think, you know, there are a lot of discretion interactions where people are, I didn't force anybody to have their camera on, I think, you know, that was something actually, and we discussed in a sea that we, you know, we couldn't enforce that there are a lot of reasons to not enforce students having their camera on even though I, I, I valued every one of my four or five students that regularly had their, their cameras on and it was always good to have a core group of students that and this is true of any class, but that is engaged in and can keep discussions going and, and helping other students. And it's, it's fairly hard to, to get responses from a black square on a screen. And so, we did the best we could and and you know, that was those were the general class periods for assessment of the lecture lecture portion of my class. I essentially. So I normally have weekly quizzes instead of tests and they're, you know, sheets of paper, pen and paper. I didn't feel like I could have weekly assessments. So instead, when sort of two or more traditional three or four tests, the tests, I know, a lot of faculty across the country, we're making use of really, what I would consider heinous spyware, or the surveillance states kind of have programs that would track students eye movements and force them to look at the screen. And I didn't want any part of that. And I don't think any, anyone in our no one in our department did, although we did have one faculty member who literally sent his his test out via the mail, in sheets of paper to the to the students. But what I did is I made online tests, and I allowed students free access to their notes, to my videos to the book to the vast store of knowledge that is the internet in order to answer the questions. And so, you know, we had given that I had to change a little bit of how I, you know, construct an assessment, typically, if they have to sort of have everything sort of, at their fingertips without being able to look it up, I have to ask a range of different types of questions. Ideally, in an upper level biology student, right, all my students are able to really understand what they're learning and so that they can, they can not only explain it, but they can use that information to make new inferences to predict what would happen, right, I can ask what if questions, but, but if I only ask those kinds of questions in class and a normal class, right, only the A students will, will do well, so I generally need to ask a range of questions, sort of that, right, the students that just kind of want to memorize some things and learn things at a surface level can at least, you know, make sure that they pass the class. But online, we're all the information is just there at their fingertips, I was, I was able to, I guess, have have tests that were almost entirely, you know, deeper levels of understanding. Here's what you know, I can even say, here's what we know about, you know, this aspect of physiology, given that, right, and these other things that you've learned, you know, what would happen if if the animal did this or was in this environment? So I could ask more questions like that. And so I would, I learned a lot of what to do and what not to do and ask, ask or any tests like that. But it was definitely a change. And I didn't want to enforce any kind of surveillance state. Observations, I figured I would just let them have access to all the information that they wanted. So that was how the lecture part of my class went. Biological classes have labs associated with them, it's really, really an important aspect of our students education, and we were not able to have them in person that year. So for physiology in the fall, what I thought I could do that would be beneficial to our students was help our students learn some basic computer programming and data analysis. Those are two things that I do in my research. And they are things that I teach my summer research students to do when I when I had when I mentor students, both, I guess, both over the summer and over the school year. And the way I set it up is I had students learning from an online a free online computer programming source. And then I had a number of of exercises that they would do. And each lab is four hours. So I would just sort of hold a four hour session where I would give some some lessons and basic background in the first half an hour or so. And then the rest of the time the students would be able to work and I would just be available via zoom. In my experience, computer programming is quite difficult for a lot of students. And, you know, I'm kind of trying to teach them maybe a whole semesters worth of computer programming just over the course of, of, of a lab you know, 15 weeks but but have a lab and I didn't want to make it a you know, an entire computer science course it's labs or one credit. And none of the students of course, when they registered for physiology in the spring, they were thought they were registering for regular physiology with their the fun in person labs that we normally have. So knowing that students did not sign up to do computer programming. I didn't quite make it optional, but I did understand that not every student was going to was going to click with it. And so I was as long as they were making an honest effort to do the work. You know, I got an A a small handful Have students really, really did really, really well. One of the things that happens when I teach students programming is that sometimes they learned that they really are good at and they love it, and they want to keep doing it. And so a couple of those students became my summer research students. Another one, use computer programming and his other research program that summer with a different professor was now able to, to do some more advanced analysis. So it helped, I think, a number of students and it didn't, it didn't hinder students that really didn't sign up for the next semester with neurobiology, I could not justify an online lab, there was just I just could not think of a way that was not a waste of everybody's time to do the kinds of things that that I thought are valuable, I think are valuable in a neurobiology lab. So I just canceled it, was one of the few labs that actually got canceled, but that and cell biology, we just didn't feel like we could do them justice. Speaker 1 41:03 So the summer after that year, Augsburg was looking into how they were going to bring people back to campus. And there was a bit of a debate around whether or not they would be requiring vaccines or not. And there were some rumors throughout the summer that they would not be requiring vaccine cards. Obviously, in the end, they did but if you could tell me a little bit about how you thought that process went, whether you thought they should require vaccine cards or not, and just where you stood on the whole thing. Speaker 2 41:38 Well, the entire biology department, as people who know about diseases and basic biology, could not have been more in favor of requiring vaccines. Literally one of the most positive benefits to humanity that had ever been ever been discovered. and the vaccine that we knew was out for COVID had was better than I think anyone could have ever imagined it was going to be. Some of the experts were saying that if it had a 50% success rate, that it would least be something and it would be a benefit. And it turned out that its ability to cut down on on on the worst aspects of the disease was 90-95%. And so it was it was extremely, extremely good news to have that vaccine. And yeah, we were all in obvious agreement that the college would be best off to require it. I think by that time, we all knew that college students really were not particularly at risk from this disease, you know, there's a risk to everybody. But we were really concerned about the most vulnerable, both on campus and off, right, this is a, you know, communicable diseases aren't, you know, just something that a single person gets, and that's where it stays. And so, we've thought it was really, really important that our students be vaccinated, not just for all of our faculty members, including some that are older, others that are immunocompromised, or both. But we also have students in that in that in those positions, but also, you know, for students, families, for their parents or their grandparents, and honestly, you know, for society in general. Having a high vaccination level is important. It's it's a, it's a societal good, and the biology department felt very strongly about it. So we were worried when we heard rumors that, you know, there would be no requirements at all. And ultimately, they came up with a requirement that wasn't really a requirement. And it probably could have been stronger and if it were stronger, it's probably a fact that there would be students that have parents or grandparents now that that didn't, or that don't because of that policy. Seems likely. Speaker 1 44:23 Well, yeah, as you said in the end, they did go with a semi requirement for the vaccines umm, going into the 2021 22 school year. Could you give me a quick summary of that year as everything was finally brought back in person? Speaker 2 44:40 So we were all ready and excited to get back in person. Masks were required and is sort of relatively annoying as they are generally people didn't have a problem with them and teaching with one isn't optimal, you have to talk a little bit slower, a little bit more louder, and it hurts the throat a little bit more to have to make your voice carry yet even more. But honestly, the the masks and the the, you know, the things having to do with the keeping the pandemic from spreading weren't the main thing I remember from that time, it is just how. how difficult it was for students in general. After having a year of online teaching where everyone was kind of trying to do their best, students weren't as prepared, right, they just had not been educated as well, right? Because we were all trying something for the first time both faculty and students. And so we ended up making as a faculty, certainly in the biology department, a lot of sort of extending a lot of the sort of treating students with extra compassion, we ended up extending more deadlines, we extended, you know, just we we found that just to keep the students with us, we had to, to back off on a lot of things that we would normally do. And students still struggled. And, you know, interestingly enough, I think we probably went too far in removing a lot of the structure that the students actually benefit from I know, I've talked with people whose whose job it is to help students who need accommodations, people in the class office, for example, and, and they sort of uniformly say, yeah, you actually have to have, you can't remove all this structure. And we thought, I think, you know, we were we were helping them by removing a lot of the structure. But I think ultimately, it hurt. And so we learned when we move on. But it was it was a difficult year, both for students and faculty coming back from from a year of online teaching. Speaker 1 47:18 And last question here, What would you say are some of the lasting effects of and you kind of just touched on it there COVID In general, and some of the policies and ways of teaching that had to be developed, because of COVID. Speaker 2 47:35 I think there have been a lot of effects in terms of ways of teaching. I can now. In fact, I did this two days ago, you turn on Zoom, for students that are sick at home, we don't want students who are sick to come in, right. It's one of the things we have learned. And so if a student can come into my class and hear the discussions via zoom, that's potentially a good thing I do. You know, I made zoom an option last year, and I think too many students took it as an option. And it turned out right that the students that mostly attended, and making air quotes for that right via zoom didn't do as well as the students that showed up in person. So it's a balancing act that I think we're going to have to deal with. But it gives us more flexibility. Without the new technologies that we've we've learned, I think students are, are still showing the effects of not getting the background education that they normally would have. The sciences tend to be very sort of pyramid structures, where students really do have to learn things in order, we have a lot of prerequisites, we have a lot of biology and chemistry that students need to learn before they can start learning about other things. And, and students who missed out on the best education for that, I think, continue to struggle a little bit. But I think in general, and this is probably society wide. And this is just an observation. It's I'm not sure it's now certainly seems to be true. But as of now, here in what year is it? 2023. Yep, thank you. In the spring of 2023, people in general, and this seems to be faculty I talked to and students I talked to everyone is just very, very burned out very tired, exhausted. And I think it's just a hangover from everything that we as learn as as learners, as teachers as a society went through over the last couple of years. That's just the there seems to be a general thing. Speaker 1 49:49 Well, thank you very much for your time. You've provided some excellent insight. Yeah, thank you.
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- Transcript of Oral History Interview with Noah Loehr, 2023
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All right. So I guess we can just start with you saying your name and I feel like yeah,
introductions.
My name is Noah lair. I'm a student here at Augsburg in my second year here.
Yeah. Nice. so my name is Zach Woodhead. I'll be the narrator for this assignment.
So yeah, so my first questio...
Show more All right. So I guess we can just start with you saying your name and I feel like yeah, introductions. My name is Noah lair. I'm a student here at Augsburg in my second year here. Yeah. Nice. so my name is Zach Woodhead. I'll be the narrator for this assignment. So yeah, so my first question that I had for you was just, how did COVID How did the COVID 19 pandemic affect your college experience? Overall? Overall, how's this affected? Well, I think one of the biggest things obviously was like the introduction to online classes. I mean, and that started for me in high school and COVID hit, but then even when I got to college, they're still having online classes. And so like, like, before COVID There was, like, I don't think there was really like, ever online classes for like regular college. I mean, there was like, like, technical colleges that had like, online stuff, like, that's what they were like, offering but like, so like, yeah, the difference between like, now like, in a schedule, you're balancing, oh, I have like one class in person. But then after go find this place, because I'm on an online class the next time and like, different things like that, I think prize the biggest then also to probably like, mean, during COVID to there's like different stuff. Like when I was a freshman to like, I lived in the dorms, like we didn't have, we can only have like, certain amount of people coming in, like, into our dorms and stuff. So like, you weren't able to, like invite all your friends over all the time. Like there was like, strict rules about like, you only can have like, one or two people besides like people living there. Sure. That sort of affected like social life too. I think so just things like that, where it's like, mean, they're like little inconveniences, but like, it does sort of like take away from your college experience, I guess a little bit. Sure. So I guess like, following up with that. So with being like, limited with like, how many people you can invite or? And was that your freshman year? Yeah, I was going on. Yeah. So like, that was like, I'm finally I'm in college. Yeah. And like, that's your experience? Like how did that affect you? Were you like upset? Are you not coming we I had a little bit lucky because like, I gotta live with at least I had through the roommates. So like, there wasn't like a good amount of other guys with me in the room, but because like we had a two bedroom room. And then we each had like two people in each bedrooms after the roommates, which was nice, because like, it was a good group, like amount of people but like, I know, some freshmen, like it's just them and one other roommate. And then like, the pie was really isolating for them because like, you only can like, be with that one person and then maybe invite like one other person over Sure. I mean, so yeah, that probably is like, isolating for them. Sure. And then so being in a dorm Did you were you from Are you like from Did you commute? Like are you out of state or do you live close to the campus or? Well, I'm pretty close. I live Rosemount, which is like 30 minutes south of here. Okay, but so like, I was able to like go home a fair amount sometimes. But yeah, I mean, mostly lived here. Just because it's I don't know, I had basketball going on. I always had to be here. So sure. I lived mostly in the dorms and went back like a little bit here and there. Okay, yeah. So you had stuff kind of going on, like, let's say class, and well, class was probably all online, too. At that point. For some, some was online, some was in person, it sort of depended on there's different masking policies to there's, there was like, it was like a gray period, because like when I got to college, it was sort of like, like my freshman year, like my fall semester freshman year, it was like the second wave, like sort of the tail end of the second wave. But like, there was a lot of like, gray space where it was like, some teachers are requiring you to like wear a mask and like are super strict about it. Other teachers are like, it's up to you. Like what do you want to do other teachers are like still scared to hold in person. So that was why I was online. So I just like it sort of was like I almost made it worse because like if it was just like one like all I lie and I feel like I would have been able to like get used to it more. But it was like bouncing between like teachers preferences and like all that stuff. Sure. Yeah. So did you like how did you respond to that? Did you were you like fresh or you would you get like frustrated if like a teacher was like oh I'm still not comfortable? And then you had to go in line or like what was your what what was kind of like your How did you like react to like being told you had to wear a mask to class every single day? Well, it was like interesting because like in high school, we got to a point where like, we weren't masked, like weren't required to wear masks. But then like, I knew like coming to a smaller college like they're probably going to want to like required more. And so like I was Finding like somebody just had like really valid reasons like they live with like a spouse or someone that was like immediately immunocompromised and so like, obviously, like, just wearing a mask, like, to me, it wasn't like that big of a deal. Like, I had already been like wearing masks, because COVID had been going on for like, two years at this point in like a year. And so like, I was already pretty used to, like, at that point, like, it didn't really bother me that much. But definitely, like, it was frustrating. Like, like, taking I like, like being I like in person class better just because like, I can be like asking teachers questions like right away, or like, before class after class, like getting extra feedback, or like getting help on extra stuff, where like, when is over zoom, it was like a lot harder. And like, you're like doing zoom office hours, which is like a whole nother step. So like, I felt like that was probably the biggest struggle with online classes. And then like, I had a teacher who was like, hesitate, because her parents were got sick in Mexico, so she had to like zoom from Mexico. And so sometimes she'd have like, bad internet connection, like different things like that. But yeah, definitely made it harder. Sure. I guess another question would be could you like Describe how your daily routine changed as a college student during the pandemic? Or, like the how the pandemic like did this affect, like, the routine as a student that we knew, or knew of our whole life and then having to kind of adapt to this like to Denny, like, did you find that things changed? Or? Well, first off, I'll just say like, it definitely changed my, like, athletic experience, like playing basketball, because so when I came in, like, there was still COVID restrictions, like, it was not less because like, I know, the season before I came to Augsburg, like they only had like a five game season like that was because it was like peak COVID. And it was like, like, so literally, the whole season was canceled, but like, we had a full season my year, but like, there was still a lot of different things like testing and everything like that. And like, we basically you either had to get vaccinated, or if you weren't vaccinated, you had to be testing, like every week, like twice a week. And then like, if, if you if you got if you were vaccinated and got like COVID, you'd be out for like, seven to eight days, like maximum. And then like, you'd have to do like, a play to like return to play like platform, you'd have to like go through a bunch of tests to see like, if you're okay, and then if you weren't vaccinated, and you got COVID It was like, an automatic two weeks out, like no matter what. And so like, that kind of stuff, where it's like, you have guys in the team, like quite like, worried about getting vaccinated or not. And so I think most of our players got vaccinated just to like, be able to, like, not have to wait out that long if you weren't you COVID. And like, we had an incident where we did have COVID. And so we like missed the game. And then we had to, like, everyone had to sort of test and like do that kind of stuff. So like, and like sometimes if someone was exposed, and they knew about it, like we'd have to wear masks during practice, like out of the blue, which is sort of like a hard thing to do when you're running around wearing a mask. But so like that kind of stuff like day to day definitely affected like basketball wise, but then school eyes. Yeah, I think it's a lot of what I talked about already, but just like, think bigger, it's honestly just the online classes. And then like the dining hall was when I was a freshman, the dining hall was like, up and running and open and everything was fine. But I know from other my father friends who were like, older than me a little bit older than me, like their dining hall experience, like their freshman year was like really bad because it was closed a lot of times. And so you'd have they had like, I think it was like the bring you meals to your room. But like, it didn't always like work like bid sometimes we didn't get the meals or like it'd be like really like on portioned and like all that kind of stuffs like, honestly felt worse for them. Because like, they were like the ones like super, like, locked in the room and like couldn't like all their classes online and stuff. But like, I guess our my time like with COVID in college is more of just like a gray space of like, like, is it still going on? Is it not? Sure. Sort of like kinda like the middle of like, is it over with is it not? And like, that can be frustrating, obviously, too, but I sort of feel for like them more. Sure. Just because like they they really like their freshman year, which is rude. No, no, like five games season. All online classes, like stuck in your room. Yeah, that was Yeah. Fair. For you too. Yes. Yeah. So. So yeah. So you kind of for whoever's listening to this. You spent, I guess the second half of high school. Yeah. Where it was kind of really strong. And then you came to Augsburg na was still going on, but really like the forefront of it all happening was still in high school. Yeah. the forefront was junior year. I think it was March 17. I think 2020 2020 Yeah, because that was when we were on spring break, like as juniors. And then we got an email saying, like, you have an extra week of spring break. And it was like, we sort of COVID like sort of been being talked about, but like, a lot of us did not know, I didn't really know what it was, like, they didn't even give a reason reason why an extra week, it was just, like, we're planning on stuff, we haven't really an extra week. And then from there, it was like, we went all online for the rest half of my junior year. And like, that was really weird. Because like, in high school, it was even, like, more weird to like, have like online classes, because like high school, like you're always in person, like yes is like everything. And so like, a lot of teachers didn't know how to like adapt. And like, I felt for a lot of them because like they had never had anything happen like this before. And I was like, I feel like none and I mean, none of us really had anything like this happen. And so like, yeah, like my prom got cancelled junior year. And so like, I only ended up going to senior prom, which was nice. But um, but yeah, I didn't have a junior prom. And then yeah, other stuff happened though to like, even in my senior year, in the fall, there was like another wave. And so then, like, that was weird, too. Because like, we started school in person, then like, picked off. So we went online again. But then it's like, and then I didn't have like a football state tournament because of COVID. And we would have went to the state tournament, I think. But yeah, and then my that was like senior year was like, Junior year was like, basically all online. Like that was it that was the peak wave. But then like, see you again, because like, there's basically like two big waves and COVID. And like, senior year, you got to like the point where you got through the first wave, but then like, the second wave picked up again. And so then it was like, weird, because like we were bouncing in between in person and online. And then like, there was choice students had like choices to make too. And like I played basketball in the winter. And like our coach recommended that like basketball players go online, because like, if you get exposed in class in high school, then you would be out. So like a lot of like, athletes in high school, like stayed virtual, like during their seasons. So like they could maximize being able to play. But we were still wearing masks like the whole senior year too, which was pretty crazy. Yeah, it was definitely crazy. Yeah, as a crazy time. But yeah, but then again, like when I went to college, it was sort of like the second wave had peaked. And like, but they were still like, in a gray space of like, is it still going on? Like stuff was like vaccines had sort of come out? But like, like, it wasn't like, everyone hadn't got them yet. And so like, there was still like, a question of like, is going on? And like, all these different like, rules about some people are like really saying it's still going other people. They're like moving past it. So yeah, so brought up vaccines, I guess. Yeah. And how some players cuz you know, this isn't about me. But yeah, some people were a little bit more I feel like cautious about the vaccine and had different takes on it. Yeah. What was that? Like? I know, you kind of touched base on it with I'm assuming a few players on your team. Were kind of like that. How, how did you react to that kind of situation? And it? Yeah, and the seemingly, you know, I don't want to say it was forced, but yeah, it was almost like you were pushed into a direction of not being able to not get it. So like how, yeah, how it coaches like basically just said, like, it'd be in your best interest to get the vaccine. I wasn't like, forced, because like, we definitely thought you didn't get it. But like, they basically just described it like, like the consequences of not having it and then getting COVID Were like, far greater being out like automatically two weeks no matter what. Versus like, if you were like vaccinated, I think it was like, a five or like five days, but if you had no symptoms, or like seven days, but if you had no symptoms, it could be shorter, or something like that. And like a lot of those rules like change, like month to month and so like our athletic trainer, Mac, he had to deal with a lot of that and like, think about it like to is like for them being on the trainers, like that added a whole nother element to like athletic training with COVID. And like, it puts a lot of stress on him because like, he's like, trying to get guys like contests and like do this and that and like, I don't think he ever anticipated his job being like that. Sure. It's because like, He's almost like a real doctor now, like making sure people have COVID tests and like, Who's who can play who can sit and things like that. But yeah, I bought the vaccines and like some people not getting it. Like I understand like it was uh, I mean, when I got the vaccine, it's sort of been around for a decent amount where like, people had been like, okay with it and like, like, fine, but like, I had no question I was gonna get it just cuz like, I didn't want to, like, I think the biggest thing for me was like, I didn't want to get other people sick. And so like, that was the biggest thing. But like, I respected like the people's choices to not get it. But like, they ended up having to sit out super long sometimes. And like, they mean that's just on them. And that's alright, you know, but you know, so. But yeah, definitely created some tension because there's like, some social tension of like, oh, some guys aren't getting it, like, why and different things like that. But like, I was able to, like understand it, you know, because like, it was a new like, it is a new, really new vaccine. And like, what if something is bad? And like, everyone's getting it, but like, yeah, at the end of the day, I think it's just on them. And like, yeah, they want to do, but it definitely did create, like a little bit of like, social tension now it's Yeah, so yeah, I guess kind of that's interesting. I'm kind of curious about if you can kind of go into that more. So I feel like we're kind of going with like the basketball team, because that was yeah, like, even if you were there, like, I mean, it's okay, if like, everyone, a lot of people will go and say what they want to say behind other people's backs. Like, Oh, this guy isn't getting it. And like, was there people were just, like, really? Like, kind of was it? Was it ruin? Did it like impact people's relationships? Because they weren't getting it? I guess. I mean, I don't necessarily like I think our least in college, I would say like, we have a pretty close knit guys. Like, I don't think it like really affected our like, relationship with that with them. I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that. But I would say like, I think the biggest thing was just like, like, oh, like, why aren't you following like the mass? Like, almost everyone's getting, like, why aren't you like kind of stuff? We're like, Yeah, I think everyone just had like that question in their head. But like, at the end of the day, I think we just accepted their choice. And like, ended up working out, like, for the most part pretty fine. Like, I had some similar stuff going on, like high school to where like, Well, I remember this, I went to like a Halloween party. And like that, it was sort of when COVID was like, on the down end, but like we hadn't done anything in a long time. And so all my friends was hanging over kind of just have like a pop party or whatever. And then, like, I ended up getting COVID and then select that it was the fat like that it was the talk about like, like, I felt like I needed like, because at that point, like you're supposed to, like tell them if you have COVID and like tell you've been exposed to like, I remember like the school nurse calling me and I like say yeah, I was with these group of guys. And like, all that kind of stuff. And that created some tension, like with my friends, because then it was like, Oh, no is like saying we like he exposed us and like now they're out of stuff. And different things like that. Because like then they get taken out of school and they get taken out of like sports and like, at the end of the day, I made that decision because like, I didn't want them to like go expose, like the grandparents or something. And like, I worked like all my relations, my friends, like worked out fine. But like, they're always just like those, like social tensions of like, not like your actions or like your disease is going to like, like, expose someone else. And like that, like has negative effects for them. So it's that like, direct link of like, tension, I guess, cuz it's like, now I got COVID. And like, say you got COVID have to tell people about it. Yeah. Exposed you. Yeah, definitely. That's one of the things to think about with COVID is like it definitely created like, that kind of tension that I don't think has ever really happened before. Sure. Because like, like, if someone gets the flu, it's like, oh, it's just him. Yeah, like, yeah, maybe you could expose you but like, there's no like negative effect unless you don't get sick. You know? What? I like how you brought up that, like, you got COVID? How, how was that? To like, how was that for you? Like it was? And then you go into that? And then I'm curious, like, after experiencing it now that we're pretty much through COVID Do you think the way people reacted and the like, treatment that they had towards it? Like all these very, you know, mass can't be around people like do you think that was the right move? Or did I think it should be or like do you think after now that we're here, do you think it was kind of more like we should have been a little bit more like the flu where it's like, you know, it's a sickness. You don't want to get people sick? Yeah. And I know it was you bounced around high school and stuff, but also like, kind of like, how do you think Augsburg kind of? Yeah, respond? Yeah, for sure. So yeah, I got a COVID and it was I was lucky like I got it on the first big wave. And so I wasn't high school still, but I was lucky I didn't have like, all I had was like lack of taste and smell. That was it. And that was a weird symptom to begin with. Because that was like a weird day to just one day like waking up and like, I was eating some like cinnamon rolls and I just couldn't taste anything and like, oh, shoot, like this is it? So I was like, I consider myself pretty lucky. Like I got my taste and smell back pretty soon too. And I know like some people don't. So that's the like, I know I was lucky. With that, but um, but yeah, so can you repeat the question again? Sorry. Yeah. So, so I just Yeah, I wanted to know how you how COVID affected you? And then yeah. Like, like how your opinion on on like, Yeah, I mean, yeah, being at Augsburg how they kind of responded, but I know obviously your, your, your high school as well and like kind of how, yeah, your experience with how it was and how I feel like, I was very heavily pushed that it was I get it, I get very, very aggressive disease, which I'm not saying it wasn't, but I know some people. Yeah, I think Augsburg was pretty in terms of like, at the time, I was like, the title of what COVID was, Augsburg was, I would say when I first got he was pretty strong with their like, with their rules and regulations and mandates and stuff, because, like we were sort of tailing down at that point. And so I know a lot of people were like, really frustrated with that just because like, oh, like whatever masks like I didn't have to wear masks in any other places and like different things like that. In terms of like, I don't know, I was sort of annoying, but like, I'm just one of those. My mom works in health care. And so like she like, she tells me all these stories about like all this, like, really sick coma patients and everything like that. And like, anytime I was really annoyed, I was just like, okay, like, it could be really, really worse. And like someone could get really, really sick still. So like, and like the stuff that Augsburg was having us do like, like, and like in the moment, it may seem bad. Like in the long run, it really wasn't, it was just like, some teachers could still require you to wear masks. And like, to me wearing a mask wasn't that big of a deal. Like in class you just have put on and just wait. And then like, being small, like the like inviting people over to your dorm. Like, I thought that was a little intense just because like, you can decide you like want to come over and like obviously you can't throw like a big party, like in your freshman dorm anyways, because it's small. So it's like, but honestly, what they're trying to do, like they're trying to still limit people a little bit like limit gatherings. But like, in the end, I'd like it was alright. But like I would say like, come with other people like definitely thought it was like harder and like they shouldn't have had them at that time. Just but like, for me, I sort of just sucked it up and just said, you know, it is what it is. Yeah. I feel like a lot of people I'll say being like Americans, you know, this, I feel like especially for our generation. I know previous generations have had some experience with virus epidemics. But this was like the first time in my in I'll say our life. Yeah. Where we we weren't really like the mass stuff. Like it was a it was a you have to Yeah, not a choice basis. I feel like that's where a lot of the Yeah, push back or. And being a college student you know, you don't? Nobody thought when they go to college, they're gonna have to. Yeah, that's like, so I feel like that's where it really created a lot of tension. So yeah, I feel like that's yeah, I feel like that was part of the Yeah, that thing about choice. And like, a lot of people like didn't like to have their like to be forced on them. I'm like, I like didn't like it either at the beginning, but then I think, like, once I got to college, and like sounds it had been going on for a while I just had, like, just got used to it, you know? Because like, I mean, it's just, almost, it was like, at that point, it's been going on for like, a year and a half, almost two years. And so like at that point, it's just like, yeah, like it just like, it is what it is, you know, just getting used to like living that way. And but yeah, I definitely like, like, the masking like when it first was introduced was definitely a big deal. Because like, like, I mean, even my like grandpa, like a lot of the older generations, like my grandparents and stuff like that, that comment about like being a choice and like we're American, like we can do what we want. Like, for a lot of the older generations, like my grandparents, like they really like had struggled with that and like, why do you why do I have to wear this? Like, why is this not even like even though like they're the most at risk, you know? Like they're the ones that really should be wearing it. Because like they're like in their 70s and like yeah immunocompromised and like it's like I think that was like I don't know I honestly want to say like That's why so many like older people got sick is like they just didn't want it like I feel like younger to our younger generation like didn't like it at first but like we were able to adapt better to it. Yeah, like older generations who like I don't want to change and like they ended up getting really sick you know? So but yeah let's see. So, how did you maintain like social connections and relationships during the pandemic? Was it Do you feel like you lost some connection with people and like, you just don't see. I don't know like how did having to Basically, at least in my experience, it was you. I mean, you got shut down there was I was at home. I was currently attending an out of state college, I had to go back home. And it was just that was it. You know, like, if I didn't have any friends there, but yeah, I mean, I wasn't able to connect with them. Did you feel like any of your, or social connections or whatever get affected? Or how were you able to still? Yeah. I think be on a contact. Yeah, that's a good question. I think it really just like everyone's sort of just, like, condensed down like their core group of friends almost like being in like, high school that was like, because like you would like in high school, you'd walk around and like, you know, everyone and like, it was like, I mean, I went to a bigger high school, but like, I still knew a ton of people. And like, I wouldn't say like, they were my best friends. But like, I had connections with them, like on a day to day basis. And like, I don't want to COVID it. It really just shrunk down to like, my basketball and my football friends really. And like my like, child, those are my childhood friends that I've grown up with too. And like, but yeah, I definitely was weird. And like, it was very true at that time. Because like my brothers were also like, back from college. They were they were seniors or juniors to coming home from COVID Are they they were, they were like, they're on spring break from college, and then college and let them go back either. Yeah. So they're, and I was nice, because like, I hadn't seen them in a while. So like, I was lucky to like, have them back. And like, it was really good. Like, it's almost like we're all back in like elementary school. Everyone's back in the house. And my mom was hat like, at least happy about that. So I have like my brother's there. But then keep t like, up with my friends. We did like some zoom chats, which is like interesting. It's like a Friday night or like Saturday night and we'd like be on Zoom or like, obviously, like played video games online with each other, doing things like that. But like, yeah, there's a lot of the social elements like were like really changing like there was no parties or like, was no like gatherings really besides like that one I told you about and then it didn't end? Well. Just like Oh, great. Yeah, but yeah, we were supposed to zoom a little bit. And like, that helped a lot. But you know, can't be like being with them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I had a similar situation like my brother came home to and everyone was just home. Yeah. It was like nice for like the first like, like week or two because like, it just felt like a vacation. And all of a sudden, like, you get past like, three weak point. And you're like, Oh, like this is like a real deal. And like they eventually went back. But like, it wasn't to like, basically like late April, like mid April. Yeah. And then they just like had to do because they like, they go on to the Naval Academy. So they had some like military stuff to get back to. I'm not sure. And they were definitely presented with a bunch of stuff being Yeah, government. Yeah, for sure. So yeah, but it was nice, like having them home. But yeah, I think a lot of people had that too. And like, siblings, were back home now. Yeah. Like, there was that first week of like, it was sort of okay, like, we'll get through it. Let me look at our families here. And then it was just like, oh, like, this is gonna, like, I remember thinking, Oh, like this one is gonna last couple of months or two. And then now it's been three years since Sure. Like, where does it go? Yeah, you know, that get a good question. And for that, so do you feel like you feel like in a sense, this pandemic almost strengthened your family connection? Having to do that? You know, I know, they weren't there forever. Yeah. But I feel like, people were so divided during this time, and there was so much tension, do you feel like in a way, this almost was like, a good experience? Or how was like, how did your family like, what was the family experience? Like? Did your parents like? Were they expressing like, their beliefs? Or how they believe this should be handled? Or what was that kind of experience? Yeah, I mean, my mom working in healthcare definitely had us more on like, the more fog on the protocols rule. And like, I understand, like, it was some of the stories she had about like patients and different stuff. And like, like her work got turned upside down, too. And so like, we were definitely like, what, like, would fall out of the rules and stuff like my dad, like didn't want to unmask at first, but then like, yeah, obviously does now and like, things like that. But yeah, I definitely think it strengthened like family relationships. And like, I think a lot of people like turned back in on their family, because there was just so much chaos going around. And there's like, people like hoarding food and like, it was just like, you know, and, you know, I mean, it's crazy to think but like, it sort of created things like my mom, we like we'd go grocery shopping, we'd wear our masks and stuff. And like, see people were in like hazmat suits, like during the peak. I mean, like, we'd come home and like, we'd like, Clorox wipe all the groceries, like even if they were sealed, like we're wiping the box down. And it's like, this is a lot like what did we like? Is it really like it was all unknown at the time, like some people were saying, oh, yeah, COVID can like survive on cardboard for three days. There was like all these studies coming out and like you were so much It's like, so I feel like all that insecurity people like really turned back in on their families. Yeah. Like, I think it also did sometimes affect, like, Family to Family Relationship, though, because then you had like some families like really following the rules and like, not gonna have gatherings the other families like, there's more breaking rules and like, obviously, like, it's good and bad with that like, obviously a lot like if you broke rule like you're not terrible person but like, you create a tension like that because then it's like, Oh, like that that was not following the rules. Like we can't hang out with them. Like that kind of stuff, you know. But yeah, I think it's strengthened family relationships, but made of like, even weakened, like family to family relationships, just because yeah, there was just so much. Yeah.
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- Transcript of Oral History Interview with Rebecca John, 2023
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HIS 300 INTERVIEW.mp3
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Luke Salisbury
This is Luke Salisbury with the history 300 oral history project for Augsburg University. I am here today to
interview Ms. Rebecca Johns, Vice President of Opera�ons for Augsburg University, about her
experiences in dealing with the...
Show more Audio file HIS 300 INTERVIEW.mp3 Transcript Luke Salisbury This is Luke Salisbury with the history 300 oral history project for Augsburg University. I am here today to interview Ms. Rebecca Johns, Vice President of Opera�ons for Augsburg University, about her experiences in dealing with the coronavirus pandemic. We are in Memorial 124 on April 4th, 2023. Track one of Ms. Johns’ interview. So please tell me a litle bit about your background working here at the university. Rebecca Johns And thanks for doing this project. It's very interes�ng and I'm really glad the students are documen�ng this moment in history, which we all hope is only historical. I started at Augsburg in 2019. And I was head of marke�ng. So my background is in community. I do have background in crisis communica�on, so that was a litle bit helpful as we get into the actual event in 2019. Then I was moved into a new posi�on here at Augsburg, which is Vice President of opera�ons. So now I in addi�on to marke�ng, had oversight and s�ll do of public safety, facili�es and finance, all of which came into play. Luke Salisbury Thank you. Now tell me, what did you first think when you heard about the coronavirus on the news? Rebecca Johns Like the first �me I heard about it? Luke Salisbury When the word coronavirus or COVID-19 first appears. Rebecca Johns So this would have been January 2020. So I'm going to give a litle context. So I moved into my posi�on like I just said in the summer of 2019 and we didn't have a CFO yet and in January of 2020 we no�ced a discrepancy in our budget where I'll just cut it short. Two different spreadsheets and we calculated the wrong number in our budget by a million and a half dollars in the financial aid area. This is what was on my mind. I didn't know where the problem was. I just knew there was a gap-I was very worried about this. The board was asking about it, and a person in the next door office was very worried about this coronavirus thing. And I remember her bringing her phone out and showing me a picture of a cruise ship that had a whole bunch of people on it. And she looked at me and said, what is a residence hall but a cruise ship that doesn't never leaves the dock? And I looked at her and I went $1.5 million and walked away. And she's, I remember going really right. So many of us. Right, there's SARS, there's bird flu, there's Ebola. And in the United States, they don't come to us right because the public, the public health people. People do all the work that they do and they stop it and it never comes, you know, deep into our I didn't assume that's what was happening. I had no idea that that was my first encounter with that. I recall with the didn't last long right prety soon got prety serious, yeah. Luke Salisbury Oh yes, for most of us it. Started off that way when you. Rebecca Johns Yeah, yeah. Luke Salisbury First hear about the. News now, when did it first become clear that Augsburg would have to do something about the spread of the coronavirus? Rebecca Johns Two steps there. One was kind of subtle, so we put a task force together. We met in person, right? This is before the shutdown. I remember being on a call with the Minnesota Department of Health and then. Go to the mee�ng and on. This task force are people from our physician assistant. And our nursing right. They understand some of this, so one of them. Was even an epidemiologist. And I remember hearing from the Minnesota Department of Health. They used this phrase that made no sense to me. Back then. It makes a lot of sense to me now, they said in a very calm voice. This has moved beyond mi�ga�on to containment, which you know makes my heart skip a beat now, but at. The �me I'm like, what does? That mean and. The physician assistant and the nurse looked at me and said. We no, sorry I got that wrong. It has moved beyond containment to mi�ga�on, right. We cannot contain it. It's coming. All we can do is manage how we respond to it, and then I said oh, what does that mean, right? So s�ll I don't know enough yet to be scared. But that is a moment. Then literally we heard within that the governor was going to shut things down. I think it was March 13th. We might have heard about it the day before or two days before. So we knew we were all going home. And we didn't know how long or what that meant. Luke Salisbury So you said there was a two step process. So the first step was when you put together a task force with the MN Department of Health, and then the second part was when the governor made the announcement. Rebecca Johns I mean, we didn't work right. We were working on things and looking at the informa�on, so the first step wasn't so much the task force as understanding that it wasn't going to be contained, even though it didn't sink in. And the sinking in moment was when the governor says everybody go home and again, I'm the head of opera�ons. And I run communica�ons, so an e-mail must go out to everybody that says something and that e-mail has to come for me or the president that I help. Right, right. Saying you can't just say the governor told us. Go home over the home. Right. You have to explain some stuff so that. Was a very. Pivotal moment from in my from in. My personal experience with this. Luke Salisbury Thank you for your descrip�on. Now, what can you tell me about the course of ac�on that was ul�mately decided upon by the university? Like could you elaborate a litle bit on what the university decided to do? Rebecca Johns In that moment, that first moment, not sure if I'm remembering all of it right, so I remember that in the communica�on it said everybody, you know who can work from home do work from home and it was very clear that there were some folks who couldn't. Like maintenance operators, if you're going to work on the boiler, you're going to come touch the right because s�ll the all the public safety of course is going to be here, but everyone else is going to go be home. We had I don't know what order everything happened in. I remember ge�ng the call from the chief strategy officer, but he runs IT and it was a phone call. So I'm all ready home. When this happens, so I can't. I don't think it was before the shut. I don't think. It was a�er. The shutdown, maybe it was the weekend. He called me. And he said. There's a thing called zone and we think it's going to be that everyone's going to get licenses for it and we I don't have so many licenses with them already. Like we could right now, buy a corporate license before they run out of IP addresses. I don't know if that all makes sense, but it costs. This much money. And remember, I'm sure at one point. Well, $5 million already. But, but I'm far enough into understanding this is bigger than a blip and like, buy it right? So by the �me you send the go home order, I think we had zoom bought and everybody has a zoom account if you have a login, students included. OK. So we had already extended spring break for a week knowing we were going to switch the classes online. Switch is too easy of a word. It was a lot harder. I really had to work really hard to finish that year out. What I remember about that e-mail most, though, was two things. One was sort of small and atack. We didn't know how to not get COVID. So I was wri�ng like when you go home, you know social distancing and I had to explain it. I had to find what social distancing was. Nobody knew what that meant and what what to do. I think we were even. I don't know if I advocated it like we washed our groceries. I don't know if you remember that, so I remember that like weird explana�on thing we didn't have. We didn't have masking yet on the radar. The bigger thing was that I understood that all of these people had to figure out. I'm just thinking about their jobs. Not even their lives, right? Kid those to school. What are all those things parent in a nursing home like? Just to keep things going. Every single manager I would say about the managers, you know, they're. Some of them, you know, 30 years old, they've. Been working for a. While but you know they're not seasoned. They got to figure it out, like, how is the marke�ng team going to work? How's it advising going to work? Every single one had to figure out how, and I knew that I had. I could do so litle to solve the ques�ons that they had to figure out how to do to keep things going and. This is the. A really stark moment in a career this is you, vice president of I don't care what are not in control and this only works if all of these people do the best they can and you do and you figure out how to support them. And it was so I thought it was so unfair to put on this to me young. People because I'm older. Young managers shoulders to like, hey, this thing has never happened in the history of any of our lives and you. Go figure it out. Do your best. I remember I. Was here at in the. Office and it was kind of an icky day like it is today. I remember going walking around the quad many �mes just kind of I think I was. I was sad. I was grieving. It was. Too much? No, it turned out to be OK, but. You know, can we? We didn't know. We didn't know. We didn't know if we'd ever see each. Other again, right? There was an invisible disease out there randomly killing people. Right. So it was a bit emo�onal, yeah. Luke Salisbury There was a scary �me. I mean for all of us, especially those of us who have vulnerable members of our families. It was scary for us all. Rebecca Johns Yes, absolutely. Luke Salisbury Now would you mind elabora�ng a litle more on what experiences the university and yourself had regarding things such as zoom and or online classes? Like what sort of pre-exis�ng experiences there were. Rebecca Johns You know very litle with zoom. I'm I'm. I don't. I don't know. In the classroom. I did my MBA here and at one point one of my classes, one of my instructors was traveling a lot and you know she did remote mee�ng remote classes. She was really good at it. But it it takes a lot. So the preponderance of us didn't have that. IT had had zoom for a while- two years before that. I remember being in a conference in Chicago and we had to talk about the budget, and they (the IT) sent me a link and I clicked on it, and it was so much beter than being on the audio conference. But we didn't rou�nely use it. So there wasn't very much of that. This was all new, but not ge�ng groceries was new. Not visi�ng your family was new, you know, so all those things were hard. But there was so much more. And there was so much more than that. Luke Salisbury Thank you. So going on to our next ques�on, you said earlier that there was a planning process that was enacted in order to decide exactly what the university would do to contend with the virus situa�on. Could you go into a litle more detail? Rebecca Johns Yeah. So we cons�tuted this task force and there was somebody on the team at the �me who had at a different university done a task force for H1N1 in 2009, and he helped set it up. You need these people, these people. But his in his experience you have you talked and then the virus went away, right. So that was the different, so. Once, once we shut down. I went back to my. Calendar because it felt like forever. And I'll tell you. What we met every morning. Seven days a week. For three weeks, it felt like forever. I was surprised. It was only three weeks. There was so much informa�on coming in that you gave this informa�on in the morning. I don't even remember if I mean the governor. Had a daily. Thing and we had to decide stuff. I don't know what we would have been deciding. I mean everyone, everyone went home alone, the classes were online. We must have been we. We had to figure out things, how to make this happen. We were s�ll doing. Our work, the budget, s�ll had to. Come in all of that. The mistake we made and again I. Found it in. The calendar. It only took a week to figure it out and fix it, but again, it felt like forever. The mistake that we made was there was this really great group, this task force, that had IT on it and help people and residence life, like all of the faculty representa�on that were students were all these people and all their smarts doing all this stuff. But it was disconnected with the leadership decision making process. So everything we go in the morning and the task force. But then the President and the Provost, when we said we're going to, you know, change this or do that or recommend they they went, we had to back up and explain the because we knew a lot because we're in the flow of it. And I remember that was working so poorly. In a in a. You create a situa�on room. The leaders are in the room. The informa�on comes in the room. The experts come in brave and we we were missing that and I remember looking at a communica�on from the you and it was sounded very clear. We're all making it up right, but we're going to do this. We're in this, we're going. And it was from the president. And then. We said we need to communica�on like that, Rebecca. And I'm looking at. I'm like that president's in the room. I can tell she's in the room. My president isn't. We do this discussion and then So what we. Ended up doing is. We had met in the morning with the task force and in the a�ernoon with the Provost, the President and chief strategy shot four people. I mean, and we and it was only week gap, but it was so hard that I almost couldn't speak about it on the phone with the President when I was trying to explain the problem. It it, you know, we were �red. We were working prety hard. It was scary. Sorry, we got that going and that helped a lot. I remember the �me we decided to not work on the weekend that we were going to take the weekend off from the mee�ng. It was three weeks. And whatever the comment was, the the the the influx of informa�on has slowed enough that we thought nothing's going to change so much over the weekend we have. To change our decisions. Luke Salisbury I can imagine. Rebecca Johns Tell you what we were deciding, though. There's no vaccine yet, and all the students were home. You know, maybe, maybe athle�cs, social distancing. There was no tes�ng yet. All this stuff is common. You know? And then George Floyd's murdered. Can I talk about that for a minute? I don't know if it’s one of your ques�ons. Luke Salisbury Go ahead. Rebecca Johns Though I'm not going to go into the history of that, others can look that up. What happened here on campus? You know, 3 miles away from it so right in the middle of all of this. And if you were around in the Twin Ci�es, there was a �me when what ul�mately happened is the governor calls in the Na�onal Guard. But the reason the governor called in the Na�onal Guard is that the Emergency services, police, fire and ambulance were so busy they couldn't cover things. So the head of public safety here calls me and says there's no emergency service. If somebody falls down and cut and breaks something or cuts their head and I call 911 nobody's going to come. Nobody's coming for anything. No fire department. There's a fire, there will be no fire trucks. There will be no ambulance. There will be no police. I can't keep this campus safe. We had about 100 people this summer living on campus. Mostly interna�onal students. OK, so we need to not have them be here at risk, we think. And I remember we had a talk about a situa�on when we were all day long trying to figure out what to do. And we ruled out things like bringing in armed people, and we couldn't hire any because there weren't any because they were being hired everywhere else, and it was a bad idea. We decided to evacuate the campus. But where to? Maybe a hotel. And he said, what if I'm moving to the hotel and the hotel gets atacked? There's s�ll no right answer. So we decided we need to get them out of the city, far enough away and the University of Wisconsin River Falls are just wonderful partners. Our residents live called their residence life and yes, bring them. They didn't ask for money. OK, we had to get a bunch of volunteers to get. In advance with a. Bunch of students. Students are the ones who get COVID without symptoms. So you're right, because they're healthy ones. So we have that risk of it's a pandemic. Well, once our student body hears that, they're going to Wisconsin, most of. Them didn't want to go. Many of them, and this was an oversight on our part, and I'll tell you how we handled that later. They want to be in their civic demonstra�ons. Some of them were afraid of Wisconsin. I don't blame for that either. I'm from there, I can make fun of Wisconsin. The people who went had a great �me. They were outside that pizza. Like it was like for them, a moment where there was no pandemic, right? But I understand I. Won't stay here. So a�er we came back and the students were unhappy that, you know, those were their two. Op�ons we we worked with student government and we've actually talked about this at conferences because here's what you had to do. If you're going to, you're going to engage students in a moment like that, and this is what we tried to avoid and avoiding it. Was the mistake. You have to say we cannot keep you safe. You have to admit that to them. And we were worried, you know, if we say that a parent's going to get mad at us or whatever. Well, if you don't. Cut them in on the on the story. Then you can't. You can't explain your solu�on and you don't. Get their input on the solu�on. So we we set the stage that next year and said if something like this happens again we're. Going to come. To you, we're going to shoot straight and say this is how dangerous this is. What we think what? Do you think big lesson? Following a pandemic, when we're all home on zoom with our various challenges going on in our lives. Luke Salisbury Well, that is certainly a very powerful story. Thank you very much for going into that. Now when you first chose to move to an online format, what challenges did you an�cipate for moving classes to an online format? Rebecca Johns Well, I'm not maybe the best one to answer that because I'm not in charge of the academic program. I have a degree that I got online in the 2000s. But I don't teach four classes. I can imagine doing one, but I have. This was the Provost and the Deans, right? Figuring out how we're going to finish the semester. The harder thing, so I don't think. I don't think I personally did. The Deans were on this task force and. They held that. Maybe now I'm remembering some of the work we had to do right, like all the decisions we had to make, that they were asking, there were ques�ons that were grading policy. Ques�ons were all kinds of ques�ons that I might not remember because they weren't my decision. Make I mean it as a test would sure make sure they were made and they were made with the right input. But that you know, that's the purview of the academic program. The harder part wasn't there wasn't that first year. You didn't say this, but wasn't that finishing that spring of 2020, it was contempla�ng the fall of 20? 20 right. How do you know where to stay? Because not everybody understood that we were going to be doing this. More than a couple of months, that was not that might have been those folks that tried the denial route. One of the things that happened I don't know, those are one of the things that happened was in in May, in March or in April, we canceled commencement. We had a a date with. The US Bank Stadium by which we had to cancel. Otherwise we owed a. Lot of money. So we cancelled. It and the. Students were very mad. We can't believe you cancelled it. Why don't you just postpone it? Everybody else is postponing it. And I knew that nobody could pick a date. That would be safe. There was no informa�on that knew how long we would be not able to have an event. That size. But it wasn't common knowledge yet, so there's no postpone those that postponed it, postponed it, and then cancel. Pulled it. We canceled it. We were honest and then we got when? We got you. So we said fine, fine. Call the postponement to an undisclosed date. We ended, which ended up being. 2022 Yeah, so, so I didn't answer your ques�on, but I I wasn't very close to the thinking about the classes. I know it was a lot of work. I know it was exhaus�ng for the for the those who had to plan their courses and they know it was not necessarily energizing for everybody who had to go to class. Wait for a long �me. Luke Salisbury Do you feel that events went “according to plan” in regards to virus con�ngency? What I mean is, do you feel that the university’s plan went off successfully? Rebecca Johns To the extent that one can be successful in a pandemic. I think we were able to isolate people who were sick, give rooms to them, get food to them (unless they could go home) so that it didn't spread. I think we did a fair job of containing poten�al spread early on. I think we did a really good job of ge�ng the word out and making available both tes�ng and vaccina�on to everybody that wanted it. I mean, we relied on government resources to provide those things. But for the coordina�on of ge�ng them out to folks, I think we did a prety good job. You know, if you would have done nothing, I think that we would have significantly different results, but I would not call the experience one of feeling successful. It feels like you're barely holding on at all moments. Luke Salisbury I see. Thank you very much for elabora�ng on that. Now, did you ever have any sort of worst case or best case projec�ons? Rebecca Johns Not projec�ons. I'm good at not envisioning a thing I don't have enough data on. That's the only way I know, but I went to the Peace Corps when I got to Africa, people said “is this what you pictured?” I'm like “I didn't picture anything.” So then I'm open to what happened. So I don't think I would have projected it. There were models early on; nobody talks about this now. They were ridiculous. I mean, (they were) based on what? Right, that's being building assump�ons to some kind of math and nobody knew what to assume. I would look at those and think “oh well, this thing shows that it falls off if we just get to June or if we can just get to April.” I was coun�ng my months away and every �me you got to June and April they get pushed out, right? So this curious moment, which is not what you asked me, the scariest moment because you're doing all this stuff. And people in the hospital and we start to realize that masks are important and especially for the healthcare providers. So it's PPE, personal protec�ve equipment and 90 fives again for hospital people and ven�lators. This is when they were pu�ng people with COVID on ven�lators. They don't do that so much. We learn a lot more if you can. Have a ven�lator, you die. And the federal government was. Ge�ng in the way of states, procuring those things they were. Not suppor�ng it. So now the now the governors are bidding against each other. So we're all compe�ng with each other all in the same country. Not only that, the federal government was interrup�ng the supply chain. There were governors who shipped things on private planes so that the federal government wouldn't know it was a shipment of masks because they would take them. So you're si�ng there in this moment going, you know, we don't know how to get food. I mean, there were people doing food, but those people were at risk, right? We don't know how to-we hope the vaccine comes if one doesn't, this is really bad. And the federal government is stealing it from us, we're screwed as well. Nobody's helping now, and I just I have a lot of gra�tude to the Minnesota Government and governor's office, I think they did an excellent job. Public health and his communica�on, Governor Walz’s communica�on and their decisions. They made them kind of quickly. They would li� things and like, say, tomorrow you have to wear masks. So tomorrow you don't have to wear masks. I'm like, does the government know? That he can announce something that can go into effect. You can implement that. And I don't just mean Minnesota there. Were many many. Governors who deserve. A lot of credit for holding it together. But that was that was the most dire �me when I thought the US government was working against us. Luke Salisbury Well, thank you for elabora�ng on that. Now how would you describe the overall community response here at Augsburg? Like how would you feel the community, the faculty, and the students responded? Rebecca Johns There's a range of responses to the virus itself that I'll talk about first. Or maybe I should talk about the second one. So some people are much more comfortable, you know? Let's get back. I want to go to my athle�c prac�ce. You guys are making a big deal out of it. Not that, you know, I don't, mean. That all the poli�cal moment. They were making fun of anybody but they were fine. And then there were people on the other end, and everyone, everywhere in the team who's like, I'm not ge�ng a room with anybody. Once they have to have a mask on and they have to be vaccinated once we have vaccines, right and everywhere in. So there was no way to decide protocol and prac�ces that was going to work for everybody. So that on one side they're pushing it. You know, we're we're in close contact for for for more than 15 minutes and you have to quaran�ne. They make sure not to stand next to any. But they're like, look, look. At their clocks and make sure they were only 14 minutes so they wouldn't have to quaran�ne. Maybe I'll do the same thing, no? And we had a couple of �mes where there was one big. What we call what you call those. Clusters like where 10 or 15 people end up ge�ng coded because a bunch of students. Got together, played football. I mean, it was football. It wasn't even but, but. But then there was this football party and we know that that's though that was the source. Of it, I think what everybody did. I'm a litle disconnected from this. I think there's this place where our mission really maters to us. Educa�ng this student body is really important to us. And whether or not people thought about that directly, the energy that went into making this work was prety substan�al. So I don't know if I would say people were energe�c, but they didn't give up and tried a lot of things, you know? I know different �mes, faculty, you know, people have their videos off, maybe for good reason. We discovered new things we should have thought of it, but we didn't. We gave out laptops for students that didn't have tech. Well, the bigger problem was they didn't have Wi-Fi. So we have new Wi-Fi hotspots and so it's doing all this stuff and then some of them, even if they have the Wi-Fi, there's no place. In their home. Where it's quiet enough, they've got a big. You know, they don't have extra rooms, so, you know, zoom wasn't the answer to them. That was just the beginning of the things they needed. So all along the way, we're like, how do we make this work? How do we? Make this work for everybody. Do you just kept doing that when I'm skipping in all of this and I'm aware that I'm skipping it because I didn't see it, although I experienced it. Were the deep losses and concerns people had for their friends and family that we were also carrying along the way and that wasn't part of the task force job, but everyone had. We were all losing things. If nothing else, Christmas together or whatever our holidays were, right? And people were losing people and s�ll trying to. Go to school and so. Showing up and keeping going is a way bigger success than it sounds. When you say that. And a lot of people s�ll graduated. There was a moment you just this just reminded me in the honest convoca�on. I can't remember what year it would have been. It was the people gradua�ng that year with honors who? Would have done their last two. Years in COVID, so they would have been sophomores. And kind of. Somebody said something from the podium like you did. Really well in. You applied yourself, whatever. And in this �me you did this and it kind of dawned on the whole world what these people had done with a lot of help, you know, back everybody. Right. And we just started clapping and just couldn't quit clapping because it was kind of amazing. To see success in the face of that kind of a hurdle and it and those are the honor students and not everybody did right. You say the community, but there's a whole bunch of people who. Who couldn't keep going to school? There's just too much headwinds in their world and their families and whatever was going on. So a lot of people fell through the hole who might have made it if it hadn't been for the pandemic. Luke Salisbury That's really awful. What lessons do you think were learned from this whole situa�on? Rebecca Johns The one I men�oned earlier about how nothing's top down. You're not in control-that one is stuck with me. The need to equip and support, but believe in the disparate talents of everybody. It's not a new lesson. We all know you know communi�es and diversity and all those things. We say it was just so palpable, but this this wasn't one person or even a task force making rules and everybody following the rules. When when you made decisions and then people tried them and they said, you know, it doesn't work this way, can we do it that way so that feedback loop that input, that exper�se from the people on the ground showed up big �me? The other one, which I don't think we learned it but should have: a pandemic should have odds. Works fine, but like generally in our society, it should have made us more generous with each other, and I think we didn't learn that lesson. I think we as a society are more polarized and more fearful of the other and more “I got to protect mine and if you're successful, then I need that too, not you.” Not to be too successful. Because it means somehow means I'm not. I think we went too far in that direc�on. And I worry about it because another pandemic and or climate change is going to call on us to act like this again. Maybe it already is. Which means we need to solve things in community with everyone's exper�se and I'm afraid we didn't learn that lesson well enough. Luke Salisbury As a community is Augsburg prepared for situa�ons of a similar nature to the coronavirus pandemic? Rebecca Johns Yeah, if you know if a different virus came and you know public health, said what public health that said we got to do this. We would be able to do it again. It won't be exactly the same, but you know, we know some things that none of us knew because we didn't live through it before. But everybody's, I don't just mean house, but everyone's fragile. Right financially. There would be people just like I can't do it again. I'm not. I can't teach this, I can't learn this way. I thought we'd be done. And it won't be the same, so I don't know. I don't know if I have a good predic�on on that. Some people just pumped. It's no fun. I don't blame them. Some people will s�ck to it. Some people will say, hey, I've seen this before because we all have. Here's what we do and maybe, you know somebody who didn't have the lead last �me because they were younger or whatever will say I can. Leave this one. I have energy. Luke Salisbury Now, earlier you men�oned coopera�on with the MN Health Department, how would you describe the coopera�on with health officials? Rebecca Johns Yeah, Minnesota Department of Health is amazing, but they have a team that was focused on higher Ed. and specifically our challenges, so you know the Center for Disease Control or Minnesota Department of Health will come out with guidance on events or guidance on congregate living and we'd say does this apply to a dorm? Is congregate living a dorm or not? Like what is (congregate living)? How do we know? We've literally had the head of that group walk through our dorms with us and look at how it's set up and get her opinion from physically looking at Urness Hall, which is different from Luther. But she's like, oh, the apartments are fine. Do this. That that's how commited they were. And we had a, I think it was a weekly call where they would tell us everything that they knew and provide a lot of documents which were very deliberate, right. They didn't just write them and send them out so that they and every �me they made a change, they understood the impact on 15 other things. And so there was food service, there was events, there was all kinds of pieces. They were quite amazing. There was funding focused on, you know, and I remember not that recently. So when the they that the special funding stopped and those people had to go back to their other jobs and they s�ll doesn't go but. They're not dedicated like they were. And maybe we don't need it, but I don't think we would have made it without the informa�on they gave us and they end up briefing the governor that they were amazing. Thank you well. Luke Salisbury What would you say were the biggest challenges for the community here? Rebecca Johns You know, coming back. Then we come back in the fall of 2021. I remember saying this mul�ple �mes. It was harder to figure out how to come back than it was to shut down. Nobody wanted to shut down, but we knew that at least we'd be home, not exposed to anybody else. Right. And then you just figured out and realized how much you hated it coming back. Now that was not everyone. People were comfortable in their cocoons, and now you're asking me to come back and I live with my, you know, 90 year old mother and I, you know, I have this immunocompromised child and we're one that can't get vaccinated or what have you. And so there was a lot more mo�on around the decisions that had to be made to return, and it was trickier and one size couldn't fit all. And then there are people who are, like, you can't have excep�ons. You have to have the same rules for everybody. I'm not sure I agree with that. It was a lot more emo�onally difficult to decide to talk people into doing it and then for them to actually in many cases do those things. We were at one point, so the vaccines came out in. So I don't know what we did the fall of 2021 It's all a blur, like when? When you first emailed me and said, you know, would you do this interview? And I was going to go back. I did go back in my calendar. To look at kind of my schedule. I went back. To last year I went back to 2022 and I'm like I'm not even close this start. Like that's how. Weird �me is I know you know this, but. The people listening to this tape don't. So I don't. Know when we did the fall change? Want the vaccines start coming out early? 2021 and by fall 2022, we're having this conversa�on about whether we require the vaccine or not. So what does? That mean, and there were faculty don't remember par�cularly. Maybe not only that there were faculty who were. Adamant that we had to mandate it and if. We didn't mandate it. They weren't. Going to come back to. The classroom, because they needed everybody vaccinated, and I wasn't certain. I s�ll not. Then a mandate made more people get vaccinated than would have other. Guys, we have good numbers, but it wasn't 100%, it wasn't going to be 100%. There were some schools who said “if you're not vaccinated, don't come here.” That became moot when Omnicron hit then later on in 202122 when Omnicron hit me. Being vaccinated didn't stop me from transmi�ng it, so there's no there's no point in making somebody else. It reduces a litle bit beter than stop it, so having people. You know, I remember the. Late summer 2021, I'm talking to some people, prety smart people and they said two of them. If you're vaccinated, you can't get COVID and you can't transmit it. And I'm like “oh no, that's not true.” So we didn't have everyone even understanding everything together. And then there. Then the emo�on on top of that. And then I talked about people who want to stay home. And remember there's like “we got to get back together.” You know, this campus needs to be vibrant and alive. And so you have both those things happening at once. That was really hard, and you had to make judgment calls and decide stuff and tell people to follow it, and hope you weren't wildly wrong. Luke Salisbury Yeah, that's certainly powerful. You say when you. Rebecca Johns It's exhaus�ng, is what it was. That's exhaus�ng now I think. Luke Salisbury Well, how do you feel that Augsburg as a community has changed, or did we already discuss this? Rebecca Johns I don't know if you asked me how we changed. That's hard to do because even then, even without a pandemic, every year a group of students graduates and a new one comes in. So we have. The same we have a culture, but the students. Create this place and as much as anybody, right? And that popula�on, 4th of it. I'm oversimplifying changes, right? So during. Who would know that turnover happened but away from here? And by the �me we come back, some of the folks that graduated? It had never been on campus, and so they're building their their their because they love zoom. Their Co crea�on didn't happen right. So I keep saying it now, everybody's new and then there's the big what they called the great resigna�on of the employee turnover, right? So some of the departments I run, nobody's been there for more than a year. So how did we how do we print the magazine? How did we decide stories of why does the locksmith report to DPS and not to? This is not like all of this historical stuff. It almost doesn't mater like how should we do it now if we've got smart people, everybody's new. So we have an event and the person running that. Events that it's the end of the school year, so every student org has an event and that advisor has never done that event. Here at Oxford, all of them. So do I invite? The president's leadership team, do I? Does everybody like? Well, well, how do we do this? Not how do we put the event on the events team is good, but there was a staff apprecia�on event recently wasn't on the calendar. I'm like going to put it on the calendar. Nobody knows to come, but everybody know we're all just. So did we change? I think we're changing. We got to kind of find ourselves. Again, I will say that the mission of this place didn't, in fact, it cemented more than ever. It became we know we have a lot of in our student popula�on, folks that. You know, they don't have a lot of, they don't have extra money, period. Right. So they're already in a scenario where the kind of major thing happens in their family and school just got a lot harder and. And so you know that's that's that's s�ll true, but it is, it is exactly those popula�ons that we're trying to. Make sure get a degree so that they get into leadership posi�ons so that those families and those scenarios have people in leadership spots. They can serve that the world that they're experiencing is represented in the kinds of products we make, services and policies and all that. So our mission didn't go anywhere but deeper. A way of ge�ng things done. Actually, our culture is always asking ques�ons. Anyway, so I think that serves us well. Why are we doing it this way? How do we? Do this? Who's? In charge. Lots of ques�ons, right answers. I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Indiana Jones. It's old. There's a point in there. He's chasing the truck. All this stuff is happening and somebody turns him and goes. What now and. He says. I don't know. I'm making this up as I go. That's what a lot of what? It's like that was a litle bit. Luke Salisbury Although that was wonderful, I appreciated the analogies so. What would you? Describe as overall posi�ve and nega�ve changes. Rebecca Johns So a posi�ve change. I don't think everyone agrees with me on this. I think we were over scheduled. I was, I'm an introvert. I work, I get worn out by people and in my job I have. I have a lot. Of things I'm going to be going, I. Have something three nights a week now for. The rest of April. This celebra�on now and and what's fun? It's beau�ful, I. Don't even have to interact that much. I have to sit there and enjoy it and it wears me out. And I know before I keep saying this before the pandemic, I almost never went home from work I had. I went to something else. I don't know what I was like. What was I doing? And and how did I do that? I was exhausted before the pandemic. Now the pandemic made me �red emo�onally and it was scary and all this, but I actually changed my sleep. So and you see this, this is the part where people might disagree with me. You see this cadre of. I'll just call it people. I don't know if it what the age is, but you know 40 and under and as they think about their careers and where to work and how how much to go in and all this, the considera�on about loca�on and and and working there. And I don't want to call work about. What work life balance? Because I mean using that term. I think it's good that. We're asking that ques�on. That I'm not just iden�fied by how hard I work, how long I work for this corpora�on. Maybe I believe in it. Maybe it's a good product, but really. It's here for shareholder. And so I'm OK with working for places product or service I believe in and their shareholder return, but how? Hard do I want. To work about how much of myself and my family's �me do I. Want to give up? I think that's good that people call it selfish. It's hard as a manager, it's harder as a person who's like we need to be together. We need everyone back the the the management hasn't figured it out. But the United States produc�vity went up when we didn't make everyone drive to Zen building every day. Boy, we would have never that that was an experiment that we would have never done if we hadn't been forced to. There's a lot. Of learning le�. In how we work, and I think it's a posi�ve that it's being asked versus. Just being assumed that you're just. Going to pay your dues and. Work really hard and. Maybe you'll rise up and maybe you won't. Not nega�ves. I think I men�oned already, which is unfortunately it didn't bring us together. As a na�on it cause. Just this and this is true if you study. I haven't I what I know from people who've studied autocracies. Is that challenging �mes? Economic collapses those those are actually moments when people tend to go more, not toward community, but more towards strong man and autocra�c leader, because everything's such a mess. People are so frightened that if somebody promises they'll fix everything they believe in, then they're willing to give up their freedom for that. And that's what's happened here to for some of us who are trying to change the vo�ng laws and make it harder for par�cipatory democracy to happen. And I worry about that. Luke Salisbury We'll see what changes here at Augsburg. We think will be las�ng. Rebecca Johns Oh, I wish you to ask me that early in advance so I could have thought. About it, there's some things. I think the. Maybe this is just too prac�cal, but so faculty. If I teach. Tuesday, Thursday and Wednesday a�ernoon. I don't necessarily comment on Wednesday morning, but maybe I have office hours, right? It's not a. Nine to five job, but it's not and it never. Ends to be. Factual about it but but but the office. Time, right? If I don't teach on Monday, I. Don't drive up from Northville if that's where I live on. And staff, it wasn't like that he came to. The office in the morning and. You le� in the a�ernoon. And I think that in my opinion, I don't know if I've never said this with leadership and who knows. Who would agree with me or not? That's a litle more fluid now and we've got more. People working from home. Some days we've got and you know you come in if you have a mee�ng. But does the mee�ng have to be in person? Can we so we. This extends beyond Augsburg. You know, I can meet with our my bankers in Chicago and they don't have to fly here, so it's easier to schedule and it doesn't harm the environment and we get our work done there. Our board, there are board commitees that meet that way. So there is a a facility with Zoom that has an advantage some�mes. If you don't always opt to it. And never get to meet the people in person. So having ge�ng rid of those arbitrary boundaries, I don't know enough about the classroom experience, which you know is the whole reason we're here to comment on that, that that's a prety important one. What does this mean for teaching and learning? But I wouldn't. I don't know enough to answer that. Luke Salisbury All right. Well, thank you for answering that ques�on anyway. So how would you describe Inter community? Coopera�on here at Augsburg. Rebecca Johns You mean related to the pandemic or this? Luke Salisbury Like sort of related to how, like coopera�on between faculty and coopera�on between students, like how well did people respond to dealing with the changes caused by the pandemic? Rebecca Johns Again, I'm a litle less close to what the facul�es experiences. I know a bit more about the students living on campus than the students in on athle�c teams. You know, there was unfortunately during maybe this is don't know how great of an example this is always two dining services. All right, so. The first days that we had people living on campus and we were going to bring dining services back again. I don't know if that was a. Fall 2020 or not? And we had a plan to keep. Everyone apart from each other. So we set up this giant stanchions. You remember the s�ckers on the floor, and you know that line was going to wrap all the way around downstairs. Down the steps and into the first level of Christensen. And we had events was organizing all this. It's just lunch. We didn't do it right, but. We were, you know, when people going to it was going to be boring in line and all this and we were really worried about the experience. And so they asked for volunteers. So I came. Chief strategy officer was there people from athle�cs. They were great volunteers, you know, to help with. The line and. Make and make sure people weren't upset or whatever. And I remember because it was the first day that I was going to, we had we're wearing masks by now. The first day I was going to be in a building with. Hundreds of people, we're all. Going to be wearing masks. But I hadn't been in the building. With I didn't. I didn't go to. Grocery store and I, I and. Again, remember, 20 year olds are healthy. And they don't. You can't tell that COVID, so I'm like, oh, and and and we talked about it because we're afraid. And So what do you do? You go and you don't die, and then you go again because you're fine. So that kind of coordina�on. Had it happened a lot, a really sad story happened later that year, which was. A person in the dining. She was an employee. I don't remember for stroke or heart atack. Anyway, she passed away in the in the dining hall. In the morning when we're ge�ng ready. And so we couldn't serve food up there, you know, though, medical people and all that. So the kitchen was able to use the other kitchen and make to go meals again for up down campus. And then we set up at the botom of the stairs, you know, not not up in the dining hall, but down at the botom. To to to for people, to. Pick up their meals and leave and so. Again, I'm at my house and this is all being planned takes. Say, how can this? Work will be hot. I don't know how the students know. Whatever all this. How do we tell the students without trauma�zing? It was so sad and it was based on so many die and people who knew that person and they were there when it happened. DPS people did CPR and it didn't work was trauma�c, trauma�c and so I came to campus to see how it was going. And the events team was or some of them were, you know, standing there handing out the meals and the students. I mean, I don't want to. Say they were fine, but. Maybe it was just like just one more thing. Of course, of course. I'm picking on male, but nobody was complaining. They're like thank you for the food. Can I? Have more granola. They they just took it and s�rred. That happened a lot. How do we do this? OK, I got to do that. OK, now I got to get tested twice a week if I want to be in this theater produc�on or in this play on the soccer team or whatever. How do I do that? Do I do that? The students? The funniest thing about that thing is to line up outside across the street to get tested at people center. It was cold out too, but that especially athletes had to get tested mul�ple �mes a week and they're all with their bikes, right? So they they would be joking around and having fun in. Line in a pandemic and that was heartwarming to have people s�ll. You know, enjoy each others company. People just stayed people a lot. That that helped. Luke Salisbury So overall in regards to the whole pandemic situa�on here, Augsburg, if you were to sort of summarize what happened or rather summarize what was learned, what do you think could have gone beter? Rebecca Johns Think about I don't know beter. I think that. Would have made it. Easier, and this is never going to happen. Is it would be that more people would be. Comfortable with ambiguity. Because some some people are more or less comfortable with it, right? And maybe that's a mistake. But the folks that wanted clarity when there's no clarity to be had, it was hard for them. It was hard for the task force and people like me making decisions and explaining. And and they were upset because it wasn't clear. And I can't make it clear now if I give my wish and everybody's comfortable with ambiguity, maybe we would have planned poorly. I don't know. So I don't know about beter, but in a �me of basically chaos. That's what we're talking about. This is. There's actually a theory. It's called complexity leadership, but it's basically leadership theory based on chaos. The the biological you know your biology major, right? The biological and physics chaos. Quantum theory where? You have to watch what's happening because a small ac�on can create a big ac�on later on and you don't control either of those things, and the power is in the interac�ons among the. Nodes and the nodes. In this case are people. And so the more you lean. Into that you're doing as best you can. Again, right. I think about folks. In a war zone. Who are doing all of this stuff as? Best a human can. And it's s�ll a tragedy. Does that mean they could have done it beter? Which means the the condi�ons aren't impossible. And yet, heroics happen, and the difference between our COVID experience and those things are that moment when we first shut down and I'm standing in my yard at 8:00 PM and it's it's it's it's March, so it's dark. And silent. So nobody on the freeway. I can usually. Have like nobody right at that moment. I don't know if it's ever going to get beter. And I think about the folks in the war zones where, you know, it first becomes clear that there's going to be conflict and ours didn't end up in the worst case scenario. And there's and there's do, you know, the refugees who they literally have to abandon the place. So I I I don't want to make the comparison that I know how they felt at that moment and we lucked out because in retrospect we are. Beter off. I was going to say fine, but. I'm not sure. That's true. So I don't know. Most, most of Mandela said this once in an interview with Oprah about himself. She asked him something like. And do you have any regrets about how you handled this and that the other? Thing and he says it sounded wrong. Whole audience gasped. He said no. I couldn't have done anything beter. And I was like, here's me. And then and and he kind of no�ced that his what he meant was and he explained. He says, I'm just one person. One person can't make the. I can't be so. Thinking so much of myself that I might think that if I had done. Something the whole world would have been beter off. You know that's that's thinking too much of yourself. So could we have done it beter? But maybe the point just is that we did. Luke Salisbury Well, thank you for men�oning that. Now one thing I was going to men�on was you said earlier that you didn't know. If I think you said things would get beter. So so you also men�oned that �melines kept ge�ng pushed back as to when things would improve. So could you elaborate on that a bit like did you ever have any sort of personal thoughts on when or if things might? Quote UN quote become normal. Rebecca Johns Yeah, yeah. I was always five or six months out in my head. So The thing is shuts down and I know that it's. That our our biggest problem is next fall. Remember whenever I. Was yelling about. Commencement and then I'm working on commencing. But I know right. And then when fall starts. We didn't know how it was going to work because we had some students back, right? So I'm like, well, we'll know a lot more in November. We're at November 2020 is when the. Football party started. We had giant spike in cases, right, and it was really hard because we had to isolate all these people and test them and find them. And we contact tracing. We did a lot of contact tracing. And who are you with and? And get those names and find that person. It was just in the medical team, you know, in athle�cs work. Too exhaus�on. They worked so hard on that. OK, so then you think. All right, well, it will be. Will be good in January, but we. Come back in January. I'm like now we have a vaccine, but it's rolling out slowly and while figh�ng for. I don't know if you. Remember that and I remember saying at that �me. Three years from now. But I got my vaccine a month before you were met. Won't sound like anything. But in that �me. Oh, my God, you got your vaccine, and I haven't goten on. The list yet? A week was a big. Deal. OK. So then we hit in the summer or when I referred to the summer of 2021 is the �me. We all the first �me we thought COVID was over. And my dad had passed away in February of 2021 and we couldn't have a funeral, so we had it in the summer of 2021. So we're outdoors is nice, and I remember if you've ever had to plan a film with funeral, you fight with your siblings because you're all of your stress. And I. I was the only one in my family who s�ll thought there was a problem with COVID. I'm the only one plus some really old people. Who were mastering the church service, right? Like no one ever wants to fight, nobody got killed during that. That we know of, right? And my sister who's. A medical doctor. She's like we were planning it, of course, in April, we were planning it and she said, well, you know, it's going. To be different. In July. And I'm like, yeah, it's. Going to be worse and it's just it's been July just at the end of July, cases start creeping up because Delta. Was star�ng. We didn't have a. Word for it. Yet by two weeks later. Here they they shut the church back down, right. Built it incoming. I remember taking a box of masks over to the library because we're going to reins�tute the mask mandate and the students working on the library see me show up with this box, and they could tell what it was. And they're, like, incoming. They may write down. Their reins�tu�ng it. So people thought was over with the vaccine. People thought it was over with Delta. A lot of people thought it was going to be over, including medical specialists did not see armed crime coming because a whole different variant. And I just kept doing the well-being. I'll do a lot more in December, so. Then what? It's actually helped me not be so diligent. Vigilant is they don't report the numbers anymore. So I can't tell if things are going. Up and down very well. They've been prety steady. I I do a month, a weekly report. So they s�ll look at that. It's prety low right now, it's prety good. Right now, do I think it's all over? It wouldn't surprise me if not, and it wouldn't surprise me if so, so I always people say, where is this going to? Be in three. I'm like, well, we'll see in three months. So yeah, I had a different rela�onship with the �meline than most people I was working with, which helped in making decisions and was some�mes harder because. You had to bring along. I listened to a lot of podcasts with epidemiologists who are way more. Pessimis�c than me? Luke Salisbury Well, thank you very much for men�oning all that. So we've hit the one hour mark. Rebecca Johns Oh, OK. Luke Salisbury Yeah, we're going to conclude things here. Like what sort of lessons for prosperity do you think you would men�on about this whole situa�on? Rebecca Johns You know, I don't know if I thought about it exactly the way you just worded it, which is really nice, but when when Professor Michael Lansing told me that, you know, we're doing this project and that it was going to go. Into the archive. I was thinking, you know, somebody listening to the the narra�ons. Decades from now, as as we've done now about, you know, this 1960s or whatever. To to hopefully hear not the mechanics of it, but the emo�on of it right? How how, how hard things were. How you how you gonna have to do this work while? Now, losing your father in my case. He didn't have COVID at a heart atack, but it's s�ll met my mom. Didn't go into the hospital with. Him and it s�ll meant we. Didn't have a funeral. And there's a million families like that or more, right. Who went to this different, different pace of that, that there's a las�ng. Having us on all of us from that. And you know, in the future when people read about what happened or don't like the 1918, I don't think we hear the emo�on enough. How hard it was to. Stay in it emo�onally. And so I'm, I'm hopeful that. What did you call it, prosper. That's the just recognize. Can hear the humanity of it. Not the horror show the scary contagion movie. Not, I mean, the science is important. Ac�vi�es, the decisions, but the humanity of it. I hope that this projects like this help people tap into that. Luke Salisbury Well, thank you very much for men�oning that. So did you have any other ques�ons or anything else before we wrap things up? Rebecca Johns No, I really appreciate your ques�ons. I remembered a lot more things because of them and this whole project, so I'm just very grateful to. Should be a par�cipant in this look. Luke Salisbury Well, thank you very much and I appreciate you taking the �me to go through this with me. So once again, this is Luke Salisbury concluding my interview with Ms. Rebecca Johns, Vice President of Opera�ons for Augsburg University, about her experiences dealing with the coronavirus Pandemic in Memorial 124 on April 4th. 2023. Thank you again for your �me and for all of your considera�on with this.
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ADAWI ADAAG Pop Music Crossword |_| Across ° | | | | 3. Which pop star has the nickname “The Material Girl” after her 80’s hit song? -— -— 4. Famed for her five-octave vocal range, |__| |__| which American pop singer is known as the “Queen of Christmas?” 7. This pop star’s birthday is February...
Show moreADAWI ADAAG Pop Music Crossword |_| Across ° | | | | 3. Which pop star has the nickname “The Material Girl” after her 80’s hit song? -— -— 4. Famed for her five-octave vocal range, |__| |__| which American pop singer is known as the “Queen of Christmas?” 7. This pop star’s birthday is February 20th, making her a “spicy pisces” as noted in her + Instagram bio. | | | | | 8. The pop girl group with members Scary, Sporty, Baby, Ginger, and Posh, is named “The Girls.” ltt | | | | Down 1. What five-person boy band debuted with their album “Up All Night” in 2011, later F | | | disbanding in 2015? _ 2. In 2008, Britney Spears went to No. 1 on /— the Billboard Hot 100 with what song? || 5. This 2009 hit song “____ in the USA” by Miley Cyrus mentions Jay-Z and Britney Answers from last week: -— 1. Vinegar Spears. ° § _ 6. Which 2022 pop album recently won Album 2. Friendship . 3. Cadb of the Year at the Grammys, making Taylor * Vaapury Swift the only artist in history to have won 4. Hamlet . the award four times? 5. Verona 6. Oxytocin 7. Sweethearts 8. Eros Opinions expressed in The Echo are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of staff, adminstration, faculty or the remainder of student body. Submissions can be sent to echo@augsburg.edu, which should be between 450-550 words and accompanied by writer's name and information. All submissions are property of The Echo and subject to revision. GET PAID FOR WRITING! Contributor: $15 Staff Writer: $25 WHY JOIN THE ECHO? The reviews (from our end of the year feedback form sent to our staff members) are in: "It's a friendly, nonjudgemental environment where you can be creative, express your opinions, make friends, and grow as a writer." "The Echo community is all super affirming of each other and really dedicated." "Everyone is really supportive" "Everyone is really nice, and its a super enjoyable job to have." Check out our Instagram @Augsburg_Echo for more info 12 ECHO FEBRUARY 2024 att
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Short Story: “Thieves Among Dweebs” Stanley and Oakley stand side by side in the pretentious colored pencil aisle of Micheals. Stanley is frozen as if weights are keeping him in place. Oakley, however, scans over the art supplies with crusty orange fingers, no doubt a product of the cheeto bag...
Show moreShort Story: “Thieves Among Dweebs” Stanley and Oakley stand side by side in the pretentious colored pencil aisle of Micheals. Stanley is frozen as if weights are keeping him in place. Oakley, however, scans over the art supplies with crusty orange fingers, no doubt a product of the cheeto bag sticking out of their backpack. “I’m sorry, but | can’t do this,” Stanley stuttered. “Sorry? What’re sorry for? They’re for said Oakley. “I know, but - I just - I’m you you!” “A chicken?” giggled. Oakley reached their arm forward grabbing a metal container of supposably expensive colored pencils. They now faced Stanley while holding out the pencils. “It’s not that big a deal. The more you think about it the more it’ll stress you out.” Stanley eitherdidn’t hearthem, or continued to do the exact opposite of his friend's advice like someone who is afraid of heights but still stares down into the pit underneath their feet. Oakley “Stanley? No one’s even looking! Here, I’ll even look away.” Oakley covers their eyes while turning away, still keeping the pencils within arms reach for Stanley. After a few moments of what from an outside view would look like a poorly written Greek tragedy, Oakley uncovers their eyes, and sighs. They try pressing the case of pencils against Stanley in hopes that he’ll have no choice but to take it. 10 ECHO FEBRUARY 2024 Tayana Osuna arts and culture editor However, instead, the pencils fall straight to the floor. Sighing Oakley states, “there’s no security tag even on them! | mean it’s like they don’t even care!” Picking the pencils up now he continues, “You just slip ‘em in your pocket, and walk out.” “I don’t have pockets,” Stanley states plainly while still staring at the shelves of pretty pens and pencils. “Well, then just stuff them in your waistband! Or put it in your bag, | mean that’s why you brought it! To hold your shit!” “Yeah the shit I own! Not the shit | steal, Oakley!” “Alright alright! No need to use the S word!” “What word do propose | use, Oak?” “| like to use the word you ‘obtain’” “That’s rich!” Stanley mutters while walking away from the pencil aisle. “Thank you!” says Oakley proudly. “That’s not a compliment!” “Well | took it as one!” Stanley continues to walk towards the store exit, but Oakley quickly pulls him into another aisle. “Here, how bout you put it in my bag!” “Forget it, Oak! I’m not doing it, and they’re too expensive to buy so you might as well put it back.” Oak, now defeated, tosses the colored pencils amongst the rows of washi tape, and follows Stanley out of the store. “You know they don’t go there,” pointed out Stanley. “I know, but it’s dramatic this way.” “You and your drama!” more “Oh, I’m sorry, I’m the dramatic one!” The two pals”) giggle and playfully shove their way to the car. While they buckle their seat belts Oakley pulls out a metal tin of colored pencils. “Look what IIIII gooooot,” they say while shaking the tin in Stanley’s face. “There’s no fucking way!” “There is!” “How did you - when did you -” “I snagged them when we first got here, when you initially wouldn’t even go in the aisle.” “Wha- but - | - but why?” “I knew you’d never do it!” “How supportive.” Oakley starts the car, and drives out of the parking lot, all the while Stanley judgingly glares at him. Although he still can’t help but smile at his lovely thief of a friend.
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We Will Protect Democracy but Only if WE GO VOTE Over the past four years, U.S. politics has become a circus of dread and the presidential race is no different. Former President Trump is facing off against the Supreme Court and it looks like Joe Biden, our current president, will run uncontested...
Show moreWe Will Protect Democracy but Only if WE GO VOTE Over the past four years, U.S. politics has become a circus of dread and the presidential race is no different. Former President Trump is facing off against the Supreme Court and it looks like Joe Biden, our current president, will run uncontested by the democratic party. The future looks bleak and that sentiment is rubbing off on a lot of Gen Zers... a bit too much. According to an article from Teen Vogue, many members of Gen Z are disinterested in voting in this election, saying that their vote doesn’t matter or they're disappointed. Ultimately this sentiment is extremely dangerous as not doing the bare minimum will result in catastrophic consequences for all of our futures. Luis Escobar staff writer okay with the ouroboros that is US politics. You can talk about changing the system and turning it on its head all you want. However, unless you are actually going to take that action to make revolutionary change, you have to work within the system you’re given. There is also the simultaneous narrative that voting for a candidate means you completely endorse their beliefs, especially when voting for a president. This, combined with our presidential elections always being a matter of “the lesser evil,” understandably makes people turn away from voting. However, there needs to be dangerous to our communities. Project 2025 is their spearhead and if they get elected, we can kiss democracy and some sense of normalcy goodbye. “But there is no real obligation for candidates to actually listen,” | hear you say. There is no obligation for you to vote for the same person who failed and keeps failing you. Small steps are crucial and pivotal for policy change that we need in our current society. Our leaders in the past have laid out all this groundwork for us and itis more than selfish to not use it. I'd rather die by a snake knowing | tried to fight it, rather than letting it consume me without notice. "You can talk about changing the system and turning it on its head all you want. However, unless you are actually going to take that action to make revolutionary change, you have to work within the system you’re given." Many of the Gen Z voters are not motivated by candidates, but instead are more prone to be in support of issues that affect the general public, especially marginalized people groups, according to the Pew Research Center. This is a great sentiment. | am in support of this new narrative! However, this falls flat when you don’t use your voice — in this case your ballot — to actually be heard. How are representatives supposed to change policies when you don’t spend five minutes in a church to vote? In fact, this is what the opposition WANTS you to do, stick your head in the sand, fall into complacency and become more critical thinking and strategy. A vote for a lukewarm candidate is a vote against the one that is likely infinitely more malicious. | am not saying fall in line, there is more to do once you vote because your civic duties don’t end at the ballot box. According to an article from the Harvard Gazette, this year alone there are statistics showing that millennials and those beyond are less likely to vote for Biden. Biden is a big bad, his presidency leaves a legacy for slow work and lots of broken promises — so they have every right to not vote for him. Who does that leave to fill the seat? Republicans are unequivocally Voting works in parallel with action; they compound and create change. Pressure your politicians, protest your governor, call your representatives and disrupt your community. By all means necessary, make sure you are heard and push your candidates into the direction the people want. We are the future, we are the people who protect democracy. FEBRUARY 2024 ECHO 9
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