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Title: Transcript of Oral History with Ana Cox, 2022
Collection: Citizen Professionalism Project
Search Result: Oral History with Anna Cox (2022) Fri, 5/13 12:44PM 32:31 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, students, civically, learning, experiences, people, sabo, question, professional, skills, important, intentional, workshops, pandemic, engaged, thinking, civic, internship, work, connections SPEAKERS K...
Show more Oral History with Anna Cox (2022) Fri, 5/13 12:44PM 32:31 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, students, civically, learning, experiences, people, sabo, question, professional, skills, important, intentional, workshops, pandemic, engaged, thinking, civic, internship, work, connections SPEAKERS Katie Clark, Anna Cox Katie Clark 00:02 All right, so thank you so much for participating in this oral history project with Augsburg University and the Kettering Foundation exploring the concept of citizen professional in higher ed. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of nursing and the executive director of the Augsburg health commons. Can you please introduce yourself for the recording? A Anna Cox 00:23 Yeah. My name is Ana Cox. I use she/they pronouns. I am a recent graduate of Augsburg. Katie Clark 00:29 Great. And so before we continue, I just want to confirm that you give consent to being interviewed and having that interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public? A Anna Cox 00:41 Yes, I consent. Katie Clark 00:42 Great. So when did you graduate from Augsburg University? A Anna Cox 00:49 So I graduated the year 2022, like a week ago. So yeah, just recently. So I graduated the year 2022, like a week ago. So yeah, just recently. Katie Clark 00:59 Great. Can you tell me a little bit about your educational background and what you studied when you were at Augsburg? A Anna Cox 01:08 Yeah, so I ended up graduating with a degree in Gender, Sexuality and Women's Studies and with a minor in social welfare. The social social welfare part is social work. But I only had it as a minor. I didn't complete the major. But that's what I graduated with. It kind of had a journey to get there. But ended up with women's study. Katie Clark 01:32 Excellent. And why did you choose to come to Augsburg? A Anna Cox 01:36 So my grandma actually went here when she was in college, which was about 70 years ago. And I I'm actually her last grandkid, I'm the only grandkid that went to her alma mater. So she's very, she's very excited. And one of the reasons that I really looked into Augsburg was we were familiar with the school because of her. She had a wonderful experience. But I also really wanted to go to a school that was diverse. That was in the cities that was small liberal arts. And Augsburg really had kind of all the boxes checked for me. And then when I actually did my tour, it just felt so different from the other schools that I had visited. So that's really what brought me here. Katie Clark 02:33 So thinking back at your time at Augsburg, where the concepts of the citizen professional civic engagement, civic leadership, or civic skills, discuss in your classes, or any programs that you are involved with? A Anna Cox 02:50 So I was really lucky that my first year. I got really quickly engaged with leadership. I worked in the Sabo Center through the Environmental Stewardship Committee, and worked there for both my first and sophomore year, um, through specifically that program. Later, I had joined Sabo through lead fellows. But we had talked a lot about being civically engaged, and kind of growing our leadership skills and in that sense, and a lot of that came from my internship with the Sabo Center. I haven't heard it in my classes. But my first a sophomore year, I was a bio major, and then I switched to undecided. And so I wasn't too surprised that I wasn't hearing civically engaged things in those classes. But I would say that when I moved into Women's Studies and Social Work, it became more of a relevant topic. But a lot of what I got was through being involved in Sabo, and all of the workshops that we had, and really what they taught us in that, but yeah. Katie Clark 04:15 Excellent. Where did you have your field placement for when you were in the Lead fellow role? A Anna Cox 04:22 So for my placement, I was at the Minnesota Youth Collective. So that's what I was doing. Katie Clark 04:29 Great. So which of the experiences, and some of these questions are a little redundant, but just trying to see if there's anything else you wanted to add, but what experiences if any standout as meaningful opportunities to learn integrate lessons across coursework and community engaged? A Anna Cox 04:49 All right, it froze up a little bit. Could you repeat that? Katie Clark 04:52 Yes, it did. I'm sorry. I don't know what's going on here. Let me make sure it's making sure my wifi was on the right thing,. Sorry about that. Okay. Okay, so what experiences, if any standout as meaningful opportunities to learn, reflect and integrate lessons across coursework and community engaged learning? And you kind of answered this. So it was, you know, it seems like maybe there was, you know, what was in your classes at the beginning, right was different. What you were learning and community engaged work until you switch? But yeah, was there anything that was really meaningful opportunities to kind of connect those two, if any? A Anna Cox 05:45 Yeah. I think that in a lot of my Social Work and Women's Studies courses, because we had a field placement attached, or we had an internship that was attached to our courses, that our experiences in our internship were really important. I would say that for my internship with the Minnesota Youth Collective, particularly around voting, voter education. And we just had a recent Minneapolis election around two really important topics, rent stabilization, and then the creation of the Department of Safety. And so because there was so much history and knowledge that we needed to know and let students know of, I think that was a really key one for me that really well was like, Okay, we're learning about being civically engaged. But also we had with the Department of Safety, we had the George Floyd event. And so it's just, there's so many things to learn, and so many things that are just beyond just talking about voter education, that you have to talk about history and like white supremacy and talk about a larger topic. And so because that connected to that, we talked about that in my courses of how, how are you culturally competent in your work? Or what are things historically, that you need to know. So when you are in your internship, you're just more aware and like, are better able to kind of work on your project? Katie Clark 07:41 That was really powerful. And I can't imagine what your experiences might have been, like, between the pandemic and the social unrest, and then thinking about your connections that you've had in the community, like, just wow. So, um, in what ways did civic learning experiences at Augsburg prepare you to be ready for a professional role or civic leadership, if any, if you feel like it did, I guess it's kind of a loaded question. But do you feel I will reward that some of the experiences prepared you to be ready for a professional role or civic leadership? A Anna Cox 08:24 Oh, yeah, absolutely. When I was working in the Sabo Center, I also was working as an orientation leader. And part of the orientation position was attending the LEAD fellows workshops, or the Sabo workshops. And they weren't required of us, some of them were, some of them weren't. But it was to our benefit that we would go to them. And a lot of them were around developing leadership skills, or learning how to organize or you know, things like that, that are just so staple skills for anyone. And even though maybe I wasn't interested in nonprofit work, that if you know, down the road, that I would be I have those skills and have that experience that I can draw from. But also it taught, it teaches you a lot about really working with other people who are different than you and being able to hone in on your own leadership style, but also learning how to work with people who are of a different leadership style than you are. And one of the things that I really found really helpful is that we were kind of allowed to make mistakes because we're in college, we're allowed to ask questions, we're allowed to make mistakes more than And, you know, we would if if it was a full time position, but because it was an internship or because we were doing these workshops, it we were allowed to kind of struggle with it, which is nice that we were able to get that experience beforehand and get those skills beforehand. So now that I know that I'm, it's like, okay, I don't have to go into a job and like, oh my gosh, I don't know how to do this, I already know how to. And so I really think of the workshops that I did the experiences that I had, as just really key important skills that I wouldn't have gotten anywhere else. Katie Clark 10:46 Okay, so have you been able to use and you've already kind of answered this your civic learning or community engagement experience, to affect decision making, or be an agent of change as a professional? A Anna Cox 10:59 Anna Cox 10:59 Yeah, as I'm looking into full time positions, or thinking about what my career goals are, a lot of that is thinking about, how do I use, you know, the skills that I have, in my own workplace. And like, especially when I was working in the Campus Life Office, we were student workers, but we were also known as paraprofessional student workers, that there was just an extra bar that was kind of the standard for us. And part of that was using the knowledge and skills from those workshops and implementing it into our work, because we worked so closely with incoming first years or first year students, or really younger students who wanted to be in leadership positions, that it was really important for us to know how to organize or how to advocate for students. Or, like, when I was in student government, really using those skills of how do you talk to people in a different power dynamic than you are? How do you advocate for things that you want, in a way that, like, is going to make an impact on campus and is not just, you know, like, some, you know, you're not just asking for something, but like, can really implement the change. And so those are kind of things that I've seen that I've been able to do in my work with student government in the Campus Life Office, kind of directly advocating for students, but also directly working with students. And like, being in relationship with them and knowing how to like navigate, kind of those spaces with them. Katie Clark 13:04 So this question isn't on the script, but just because rarely do I feel like students are so self aware, but also like, you're clearly an expert in civic engagement and civic skills, and really thinking about how to be political in all aspects of life. So given that I, this is one thing that I struggle with a lot, and I'm wondering your thoughts on it. But I find that a lot of times when we're teaching about this in classes, like you know, what you can do about issues you're seeing, and obviously, mine's mostly in healthcare and social justice. So health and health inequities, I find that students are quick to polarize, instead of try to find common ground, and I hear you almost talking about building that common ground, which I think we need more of. And so for you, is that something that you learned? Or is that something that you've just always kind of been? A person of, is just trying to kind of meet people where they're at and see where you can kind of agree to disagree or come together on something like, where would you say you learn that skill? A Anna Cox 14:24 I actually really attribute it to my Women's Studies degree, because I actually just recently wrote a paper about this, but I really try in the work that I do to have, like a feminist pedagogy. And part of like, as I'm reading feminist theories and feminist authors, one, I forgot who it is. But there's this feminist author that basically talks about how like we should be talking about our differences in order for us to, like, band together, that our differences are really important. And when we don't talk about them. It's, it's not making aware of the actual issues going on. And I think there's needs to be a good balance of talking about our differences, but also saying, We're super similar, or we're, you know, we have these similarities. And I think that's kind of where I was able to kind of gain that skill, because so much of the things that I've learned in the classroom are feminist theories. And so when I think about the work that I do, in, you know, my professional life, but also with leadership development, and with students, it's having that feminist pedagogy mindset. And really incorporating that into the work. But also, I think, something that I think we've kind of just I think a lot of students have really learned from just being at Augsburg is having a sense of being inclusive. And I think that that has really been fostered throughout my four years here, of who is at the table who's missing from the table. Okay, we're in this meeting. And we have this many white people at the table, or we have this many cisgendered people at the table. What does that mean for our team? And like, why are we? What is the demographic? What does it mean, and especially because when I was working in the Sabo Center, first, in the Environmental Stewardship Committee, we had a lot of talks about race, because environmental work is pretty, it's pretty white. And it's really white centered. And so we had a lot of conversations about identities about being inclusive and having more of an intersectional frame of the work we did. So I think those are really things that kind of impacted a lot of the way that I think about things now and how I work now. Katie Clark 17:18 Excellent. Um, so this question is a little dense, so I'll can say it again, if you need me to help more students ask for to be repeated. So what connections if any, do you see among your professional identity, your vocation, and civic leadership? Professional, your vocation I know, that's an Augsburg term, and civic leadership. Oh, okay. You can take your time too. A Anna Cox 17:55 I think a kind of connection. I think is being intentional. That's what I would say is being intentional. I think I'm gonna go through all three to kind of make the connection, but I think being civically engaged, I think it can be really easy to fall into the trap of being performative. And just getting something done to just do it and to show it off, but not actually being thoughtful, and being intentional with what you're doing. And I saw that really in, like student government, it's really, it can be really energizing and really exciting to you know, whip out all of these letters to the President, I, I'm forgetting what the name is right now, but are all of these projects, but if they don't mean anything, when they actually aren't sustainable, or that they don't actually make a change? And so I think really being intentional. I think with vocation, I think that now because of the pandemic, really finding joy, and really finding my passion in my career is just something that has been always important to me, but I think now that the pandemic has, that we've been, you know, through the rough parts of the pandemic and kind of still through it, the I really had to think of, okay, what do I actually want to do? What am I passionate about? What am I going to wake up and be energized about? And be excited about? And so really being intentional with what I see for myself. And then I think, my professional development, kind of in the same sense of being intentional about how am I developing as a leader? How am I being a better colleague for my, for my peers? How are the things that I'm learning and reading important for the health of you know, my workspace, but also the relationships that I've made. So I think being intentional for all three of them, it's just really like sitting back for a little bit being reflective and thoughtful. It's just kind of a common thread that I've seen. Katie Clark 18:43 That was beautiful. Okay, so the next question is, do you see yourself as a civic or citizen professional? Even if you don't specifically use that term? If so, how do you describe that or explain that to others? A Anna Cox 21:39 I think one way that I kind of think about it is that I try to think of it as, like, being the person who's willing to ask the question. I think I had said this earlier, but like, who is at our table? Who's not at our table? And even though you might not use the title "civically blank", but having that, like, thought of who's at the table who's not? There was also this thing that I saw about the the tenets of white supremacy, and how people kind of live into that without knowing. And one of them is like, being defensive, or being really strict with time. And so I think even willing to go against those things, and to be in constantly anti-racist work, that even doing things like that are being civically engaged. And really being thoughtful of how do you show up to spaces? And how do you make space for other people? And so that's kind of how I think about it, of even you might not think of like, Oh, I'm specifically doing this, that, you know, the work that you're doing is, in that sense? Katie Clark 23:29 And so here is a question I have for you that I kind of struggle with is, I think oftentimes in our coursework, or in some of those workshops you were describing, we use the word citizen or civic professional. And I'm wondering your thoughts on if there is a better word that would resonate, especially with like your generation, because I feel like there's some pushback back on whether it feels too grandiose, like, oh, you know, I'm striving to be that, but I wouldn't say I am one or the language in itself. So do you have any, I guess, how do you react to the the terms itself itself? And do you have a suggestion for a better way to connect it to students, if any? A Anna Cox 24:30 I see two sides of it. I think there's one part if someone sat down and said, This is what civically or a civic profession looks like, or this is what this means. It's like, oh, okay, this makes sense. So, I think that a lot of times, a lot of these kind of big words are used at Augsburg and a lot of kind of buzzwords like when we say intersectionality or when we say inclusive or when we say diversity, what does that mean? And so I think it's the same thing of like, Okay, what does that mean? Like? What is? What's the specific meaning? And how would that be reflective of like a biology major or someone, you know, an education major? And so I think it's so tricky because like, it can be so broad yet so specific because of what you're, what you're studying or what your career goals are, or what your goals in life are. I'm not sure what word or phrase or label to use it. But I don't mind the Civic Professional. I think there just needs to be more awareness and education, but I'm not sure. I think if I had a little more time to think of something I could. Katie Clark 25:58 Yeah, no, no pressure, just wondering your thoughts on it. That's great. So there, this question is one kind of asking you, is there anything you wish you would have learned at Augsburg that you didn't? Are there experiences you wish you would have had to prepare for your future career? A Anna Cox 26:22 Oh, okay, this is not a bold statement, but I'm gonna have a bolder explanation. I have absolutely no regrets. I think I have learned everything that I could in the journey that I've had here at Augsburg and I think that outside of Augsburg, I think there's, of course, more learning to do. But I think that everything that I could get out of Augsburg, I could. But I say that, because I constantly said yes to things. When there is an opportunity, and I could fit into my schedule, I said, Yes. I challenged myself, I pushed myself out of my comfort zone. Like if I think of first year me, like if we met, it would be like looking at two different people. And every opportunity that I was given, I jumped on, and every connection that I could make, I made those connections. And I think when students say, Oh, I missing this, or I didn't have this opportunity it's because they didn't take it. And I'm really not trying to be too harsh or bold. But Augsburg has all of these amazing opportunities and connections. But it's on the responsibility of the student to take it. And with my own experience, I really made the most of the time that I had here. And I have absolutely no regrets. And I think I learned everything that I could have. And so that's really, that's my response. I really got the last drop out of the school for me. Katie Clark 28:08 That's right, I know there's gonna be people who are listening to this that are and I'm sure you've met Harry Boyte. But there are scholars that are authors and some of the same content as Harry and one of them in particular always wants to know, how do students who are like yourself who do throw themselves into these situations and push themselves to uncomfortable situations? What what drives you? What is that? Is that just who you innately are or, you know, how can we tap into that into other people? Or is that just something that you think is just part of your nature? A Anna Cox 28:47 I actually just recently said this in a past discussion, but I said, I am not me without the people who I surround myself with. I'm only me to an extent, you know, like, I'm great, you know, but I'm also great because of the people who I surround myself with that my community because it's so strong and so supportive and pushes me to do more, that I would not be me without them. In my first couple of years at Augsburg, I had to find my people, I had to find people who wanted to be engaged and who wanted to be pushed the same amount that I wanted to be, and I found those people eventually. And, you know, I think it's funny how we kind of make the joke that like, Oh, they're they're like the same leaders at Augsburg, you know, like they start out first year and then they always are the same senior year. And it's because we all have we all come in with, I want to make a change. I want to do more. I want to you know, Have a great college experience. And then we encourage each other and support each other. And then all of a sudden, we're doing these really big things at Augsburg. But I think it's because of who you meet and who you surround yourself with, if you're only surrounding yourself with people who want to focus on classes, and that is your goal. That is totally okay. But that was not something that I wanted for myself. And I was with people who were like minded, and who had the same values and goals that I did. Katie Clark 30:37 Excellent. Well, the last question is really, is there anything you wanted to add that I didn't ask you about? A Anna Cox 31:03 I think that the two most transformative experiences that I've had on campus was being involved in the Sabo Center and being involved in student government. Those were the two transformative places that has made me who I am now. And if I had not been involved in those two things, I would not be the leader that I am now. So I think that is just kind of where I want to leave it off. Katie Clark 31:29 And could you also conclude with telling us the award that you recently won at graduation? A Anna Cox 31:38 I got the Marina Christensen Justice Award , which honors a student at graduation who has been really involved in social justice things and advocating for students. It was, it was a little surprise that I got it and not because I don't think that I was not that I'm not worthy of it. It's just there's so many wonderful leaders here. And I think that any one of us could have gotten it. So it was really humbling that they had chosen me. And that was really exciting. Katie Clark 32:23 Great, well, thank you so much. So that concludes our interview. And I just want to thank you for your time.
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Title: Transcript of Oral History with Barbara Sabino Pina, 2022
Collection: Citizen Professionalism Project
Search Result: Oral History with Barbara Sabino Pina (2022) Thu, 3/31 4:31PM 29:14 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, people, civic engagement, concepts, physician scientist, professional, positions, civic, learned, year, skills, type, question, classes, citizen, apply, future, student, prepared, opportunities...
Show more Oral History with Barbara Sabino Pina (2022) Thu, 3/31 4:31PM 29:14 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, people, civic engagement, concepts, physician scientist, professional, positions, civic, learned, year, skills, type, question, classes, citizen, apply, future, student, prepared, opportunities SPEAKERS Katie Clark, Barbara Sabino Pina Katie Clark 00:02 All right, so thank you so much for participating in this oral history project with Augsburg University and the Kettering Foundation exploring the concept of the citizen professional in higher education. My name is Katie Clark, and I'm an assistant professor of nursing. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording? B Barbara Sabino Pina 00:22 My name is Barbara Sabino Pina, I use her pronouns, and I am a third year at Augsburg University, studying biochemistry with a minor in leadership studies. Katie Clark 00:35 Great. Before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed and having that interviewed stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public? B Barbara Sabino Pina 00:45 Yes, I consent. Katie Clark 00:46 Great. So when will you graduate from Augsburg? B Barbara Sabino Pina 00:51 Barbara Sabino Pina 00:51 I would graduate hopefully in a year. So in spring of 2023. Katie Clark 00:57 Great. And so can you tell me a little bit about your educational background? You mentioned your majors, so kind of what you're currently studying, and maybe what you hope to do when you graduate. B Barbara Sabino Pina 01:13 I was born in Venezuela. So my first years of school having my native country in Venezuela. I graduated actually from high school there. But because the education system works differently in my country then here. I had to go through another year of high school here. So I graduated from Burnsville High School, after doing basically my last year here, and I decided to attend Augsburg University. I am currently a third year I'm studying biochemistry. And I also have a minor in leadership studies. And what I hope to do with this is that I, since I was really young I always enjoy medicine, and like, the biomedical field. So even though, you know, things can change, and my decisions also can change with time, at the moment, I want to be a physician scientist. So my plans are to apply for medical school on next cycle. And I mean, like, the cycle of 2023. So I hope what I want to do with this is that I really enjoy working on a lab. And I really enjoy going through the whole answer the question and tried to solve a problem with the research that is done. But I also like the patient interactions. I also like to talk with people, you know, having interactions with them, talking with them, understanding what's going on, what's the problem? Or how, in which ways can I use my, my skills or anything that I know to help them? And how can they also like, I can learn from them, and develop as well as an individual. So I think so far, that's the plan. Katie Clark 03:17 Being in the medical world myself, I think that that is much needed. So I'm excited to hear that. So just thinking about your time at Augsburg have the concepts of the citizen, professional, civic engagement, civic leadership, or civic skills been discussed in your classes or programs that you've been involved with? And if so, which ones if you remember? B Barbara Sabino Pina 03:41 I would say a couple of them, not necessarily in my classes, because as I mentioned, I am biochemistry major. So a lot of times wouldn't really like we wouldn't mention those things, but because of my minor and because I decided to do a Leadership Studies minor. When I took LST 296,that was student development, leadership class, I did talk a little bit about what it means to be like a citizen and like what it means to have like different intersectionalities of identities. And so we kind of like talk a little bit of that, in the surface, I wouldn't be able to say that I like an expert, or like I understand completely the concepts. But I also have to say that I am part of the LEAD Fellows Program here at Augsburg. And so through that I did learn more about civic civic engagement and basically how to, like connect with the expert community, but also with the community around Augsburg. And basically what it means to like a create community and how to engage and how to organize, mobilize people. I think I did have a little bit of connection through that, but it's probably because of the decision that I made to get involved in the program that I decided to be part of. So yeah, That's kind of what I would say. Katie Clark 05:02 So what experiences stand out as meaningful opportunities, and you kind of answered this, but maybe ask it again and see if anything else comes up, to learn, reflect and integrate lessons across coursework and community engaged learning. B Barbara Sabino Pina 05:19 As I mentioned, yes, I mentioned a couple of those activities. I also would add, when I was a first year, I applied to be part of the Emerging Leaders Program here at Augsburg University. I think that was one of the best decisions that I made at the beginning, because I learned a lot about myself in that class. But I also got to meet a lot of people that kind of like I continued to have relationships with, through all these three years that I've been at Augsburg. And that connected me with all their staff members, when they actually one person that I met through the Emerging Leaders Program connected me with LaToya, which is basically the director manager for the LEAD Fellows that that's how I ended up applying for it. So I think the Emerging Leaders Programs was like the first door that I got to be like, the first that I enter, to get through all my other leadership opportunities are after that, I got to be an orientation leader, and then an AugSem leader, and then I got other positions that are expert, like student program assistant, and eventually the LEAD intern position. So I would say those are kind of like really meaningful positions that I had that so far. Katie Clark 06:33 So I guess for me, I'm wondering like being in the biology, or they might refer to STEM courses, is there a way that could that you envision things like civic engagement or civic skills could better be weaved in that curriculum? B Barbara Sabino Pina 06:51 Even though I don't have a specific answer for that, in terms of like ideas, or how to do it, I think we should try to find ways to do it. I think the STEM fields are really wonderful. And I wouldn't be a STEM, if I didn't enjoy it, or I didn't like what I'm doing. I really enjoy it. I really like it. But sometimes I wish there were more ways to connect it with the real world, not just on that on a textbook, or just based on what it's supposed to be for the exam. But a little bit more like, again, teaching to this because this is helpful for you and just in your career. But let's see how we can use this information to create things that can help the environment for example, like biology majors, they know a lot about, like, they take a lot of environmental causes, like how can we use this concept to actually create something better for more sustainable for on campus, or more sustainable for the whole community at Augsburg? Oh, I think like probably like, what I try to say is more like, I would love it to be more applicable. Or like would there would be like some type of project instead of an exam. And then you have to the project to basically find a way to use this concepts outside of the classroom, or something like that. That kind of like would bring all the critical thinking skills for the students. And also, it would be more engaging and more enjoyable. I think. Katie Clark 08:14 Thank you for that. So in what ways has civic learning experiences at Augsburg prepared you to think about your professional role or civic leadership? Whether it's currently or when you move on to med school and into your chosen profession? B Barbara Sabino Pina 08:32 I'm just to make sure I understand the question Is it like how has Augsburg prepared me more like in my career field basically? Katie Clark 08:40 Yeah. So do you see some of those civic learning experiences prepare you as a professional? B Barbara Sabino Pina 08:47 Yes, I believe so. I think more than what I have learned in the like my major itself, it's more of the things I'm getting involved with like in organizations all those positions that I got through the years, my current position as a LEAD fellow or LEAD intern. I think all those positions prepare me more in the aspects of yeah, my classes did a lot of the work on like knowledge, like okay, I know how to have this lab skills, for example, but my leadership opportunities help me to okay, how do I express my ideas? I have all this knowledge, but how do I actually send it to people in a way that they can understand? How can I have a conversation with someone that looks different? Someone that has a different background, different ethnicity? How can I have conversations with people have different experiences than me? How to be comfortable being uncomfortable? You know, like, like having uncomfortable conversations or things that aren't usually talked about, um, how do we prepare for an interview even for things like that, just like how to talk how to express correctly my skills to say what I want to say? Just all those kinds of things that might seem like, I don't know, little or little things that are still important, and that can tell a lot of your character and your personality, I think I learned a lot outside of the classroom. And through those leadership positions. Of course, I made a lot of mistakes on the way, like for sure, at the beginning, I would be thinking so much just to say the same sentence, or I would freak out in front of people, because I just, you know, public speaking can be nerve racking sometimes. But because I keep continue doing it and putting myself on those, you know, positions that kind of helped me to feel more comfortable and end up applying for more and wanting to do more. And at the end, I kind of found what I wanted to do, you know, even when, because I decided, for example, to be part of research my first year, probably wouldn't even know that I want to be a physician scientist. So I think like getting out there and get out of my comfort zone, through this leadership positions helped me a lot to discover me as myself, as a person. Katie Clark 11:08 Just sounds like you just, it's who you are, that's really brought me down this path. And that's so beautiful. Have you been able to use your civic learning or community engagement experience to affect your decision making or be an agent of change as a professional? B Barbara Sabino Pina 11:25 I would say yes, my first years at Augburg, I learned through those like civic engagement positions, like an orientation leader and AugSem leader. As part of campus life a student program assistant, I learned a lot of like different communities and about the Augsburg community and outside of Augburg as well. And after a while, not just in those positions, I got to use those skills. But after I wanted to do something that had to do more with my career that is medicine, I ended up applying for a direct care professional position. And I believe that one of the reasons why I got this position was because I was able to show through work, the work that I did the past that I was able to work with people and do what it's needed to do for the decision. And so I believe that everything that I've learned so far has made me like a capable student and a capable just professional in general, to perform the tasks that I should be doing like for the physicians for the my career path that I've chosen. Because my the medicine even though it has to do a lot with people think of science, you know, everything just science, and you're supposed to learn so many things you study and study, study, don't get out. A lot of it is people interaction, you know, like, understanding how to, like, understand what's going on in the body and like, understand how you can talk with your patient or how to understand what's going on in their families. Because sometimes, ah, a lot of the things that happen, they will be like, did you do this? And they're like, No, I didn't, but then you like, ask another person is like, no, actually, they did. And I think that kind of trust comes from, if you actually show yourself your humanity. And like, with honesty, and they are capable to think like, okay, I can trust my doctor, you know, instead of this person that just gonna knock on me and say things is like, oh, no, this person is actually trying to do something good for me. Um, so I think I don't know, I feel like in general, all the positions that I have so far, and a couple of things I've mentioned, they have prepared me to be a better professional in the future. Katie Clark 13:53 Well, it sounds like you're very relational, too, which is so important to some of these concepts and practice too. So this question is one that's a little dense. So let me say so what connections if any, do you see among professional identity, your vocation and civic leadership? B Barbara Sabino Pina 14:18 Actually, I think that's a really good question. It's kind of interesting, because through my through the summer, before my third year, I had this moment in which I didn't I was like, wondering, like, what do I want to do with my life because I have all these things that I enjoy. But I thought I have to pick one thing. I cannot just if I'm a leader, I cannot be a doctor and I'm a doctor, I can't you know, I because we have a lot of stereotypes, that when you do something, you only can do that. And I think during in that summer, I just took a lot of time for myself and reflect on everything I've done so far. And what do I want to do? And like, what makes me happy? Like, what do I enjoy doing, because I want to continue doing that, that I enjoy. And I think it's, I was really grateful to understand and notice that in my professional career, I want to be a physician scientist, right? So I want to be hired in a lab, I want to be able to get all these questions, answer I want to be able to, you know, provide something in the future that would help to an invention, or some type of technology that would improve someone else's health. And then on my vocation, I noticed that I love teaching, for example, I actually really enjoy talking with other people about the knowledge that I have are acquired, because I think so many things are just so cool. And I'm like, I want to share it. So I noticed that I love teaching, I love talking, I love communicating. There's this other side of it, that I'm can can connect, even though I didn't notice before, like it actually can connect to my profession. And then the civic engagement part portion of it. Personally, I am really passionate about a specific community, which are the undocumented students and DACA because I am an immigrant. So as an immigrant, I did I face a moment in which I also was undocumented, and I faced a lot of challenges. And it was hard, especially as a student, because I wanted to have a future, but I didn't know how to, without, you know, any type of documents that can help me to apply for things. And so that saved that that first connection to civic engagement through my own struggle help me to be like, think of, I actually want to do something in the future that helped me to help others, not just like, not something that has my own self interest, you know, and that can help others in the process. And even though these three things might seem like, let's think about triangle or something, or they might see, like, so far away from each other, they actually I feel like they connect, because I can still continue doing my work as a physician scientist, and probably create some type of, I don't know, foundation in the future to help future doctors that are actually undocumented. Right. Daca in the same way, oh, this process needs me to communicate with people need me to do research about people like searching for people that are interested in helping me in this specific issue. Um, and I still, like I have, can have conversations, I can teach others and others can teach me in the process. So I personally feel like I don't I all of them relate in a way and I'm grateful that I know I'm capable of noticing that and that I'm because I think that's what's gonna guide me eventually to a better like, a better and happy life, doing what I enjoy to do. So I hope that answer the question, I'm not sure if it. Katie Clark 18:12 It completely does. And I would think as you enter into these systems to you might see yourself thinking about how to change the systems within which you very much spoke to as well. So wonderful. Do you see yourself as a civic or citizen professional? Even if you don't use that specific term? So if so, how would you describe that? Or explain it to others? If you see yourself as a civic or citizen professional? B Barbara Sabino Pina 18:44 I would say yes, more in the working kind of like still becoming, you know, like trained, I think we can always improve. But I would say yes, because at least for me, what it means is that I am a leader, that it's trying to create some type of change, that it's going to help others to succeed in anything that it entails. And I'm trying to do it not just, I'm not just talking about it, but I'm actually trying to use my own skills, and all the work that I've done so far to make that happen. So that makes them more like I don't know if that's where the professional part comes in, like more like instead of just you thinking about what to do with are you actually getting together with other people or doing some work about it, or being part of a program that helps you to do some work about it. But I would say that I feel like I am, just that it's more like on the working process. I still feel like there's a lot to learn many concepts to grasp as well. Well, um, and develop as a better citizen as a better individual as a better, I don't know, person in team player. If I were to explain this word to someone, I would probably say like, as long as you are, you have passion to do some type of work for others and for yourself like something that you have some type of self interest in, in the process, you are gathering, like you're organizing people and you're mobilizing people, then I think that would make you a civic, citizen professional. Katie Clark 20:43 What's interesting, this is my third interview so far. And I really hear you and others explain before you were probably even introduced to these concepts that you were doing civic agency and being a citizen professional. So I'm wondering, do you think that there's better terminology? Or have you heard of other terminology to really name some of these things that you are just doing? Or do these concepts, the way they're described, resonate with you? B Barbara Sabino Pina 21:17 I would say, I don't know if I'm the right person to say there's better or not. But I think there is maybe easier ways to explain the type of work that it's done. Since I feel like a lot of people can be a little intimidated by how it sounds, they might feel like, what they hear is like, oh, no, that sounds like too much. And I feel like I've done nothing, or I've done so little. And you know, sometimes a lot of people tend to humble themselves a lot, or more. So I think there's probably easier ways to maybe get across this concept. So other people can actually identify more themselves with it. Because personally, I feel like if a few years ago, you asked me the same question. I would have been first, like, what is this? And second? Oh, I don't think I am, like, capable or I am not. Yeah, like worth do actually just say that type of title in front of me, because it sounds like a big word. Um, so that's personally why I feel I probably think there's like maybe, I don't know, a specific won't be the better word to say maybe. I don't know, I some type of leader, maybe some are in the leader to want something in there might help to make it more understanding more, yeah, more practical and more understanding for other people. But I can see how it can be a tricky word to use around specifically people of my age. Because I think as part of the LEAD fellows, for example, I see a lot of people doing great things and like working on things that are really like, awesome. And I know there's so passionate about it. But when you ask them what they do, sometimes they just like, Oh, they're like, Oh, I just this little thing, you know, it's not big deal. And I'm like, What are you talking about? This is awesome. But I think it's just people are not used to like thinking of just big words when they refer to themselves. Katie Clark 23:16 I completely agree. So thank you, I appreciate you confirming that. Is there anything you wish you have you would have learned during your time at Augsburg that you haven't yet? B Barbara Sabino Pina 23:31 Barbara Sabino Pina 23:31 I would say probably taking a little bit more care of myself. I think I learned how to do it. But I think there's just like a journey. It's like a long term thing that you kind of learn on the way. But I wish there could have been I think there's more now, but at the beginning, I feel like it could have been helpful to have more mental health type of work in the classroom, more accommodating, suggestions and modes for all the classrooms, all the classes, um, maybe like they have like in the chapel, they do sometimes people attend. And they have like a specific speaker that talks just for those 20 minutes about some type of topic. I wish like in those chapel hours, they would like talk. I don't know how little mental health sessions or, yeah, I think probably I could have been more beneficiated by more time to think of myself and be more reflective than think of like go go go go and do do do do. I eventually learned you know, but I wish Augsburg has been pushing more through that side of it. Does that make sense? Katie Clark 24:54 That's so important. Thank you for mentioning that. As far as your career development do you feel like there's any other opportunities that you wish that Augsburg offered? And there's no no one's gonna get this is just more me asking you in informal and no one's gonna get get you in trouble for answering the question. It's just some kind of wondering how do you feel about your opportunities to be ready for your future career? B Barbara Sabino Pina 25:21 I think that I'm not sure it's like I would I credit to Augsburg just because I feel I had to do more with me, looking for those opportunities, and staff and professors that were willing to, like, answer those questions for me. So I think I would like to say, like, yes, it was Augsburg and the people that I met, like, I made those connections with where an expert at what I want to say is more due to those people like those staff, those great staff members, those great faculty members, and of course, me going and looking for those people that were able to help me that they were able to provide me with like opportunities and say, like, they saw my my capabilities, my skills, and they say, oh, Barbara, I think you should apply for this, or there's this program going on in the summer, or there is this, I don't know, class in the spring that it's going to help you with data analysis, right? Simple. I think those kind of like suggestions, and those type, like people that mentor me, you know, mentor me to go in like this. I know, this is what you want. And I know this relates to that. So go ahead, do it. I think thanks to them, I feel more more capable and better prepared for the future, whatever that means. Katie Clark 26:47 Excellent. Well, is there anything you would like to share with us that I didn't ask? B Barbara Sabino Pina 26:52 I would say maybe this is not related specifically to civic engagement or anything. But, I mentioned a little bit how I'm an immigrant, and I, I was born actually, in Venezuela, I have only like three and a little bit like three years and a few months in the country. And I know, there's many other people that are living or had similar circumstances like me. And I think at the beginning, I had this thought that I was not able to do a lot of things, because of my documentation, because of just like the situation that I was going through. But if anyone else out there, it's having the same situation, and they think they can't do it, or that it's just hard, or that they feel like there's so many doors keep closing in front of them. I would encourage people to keep trying and just to keep looking for the thing to the right people, like there's gonna be people are gonna be like, No, you can't do it, or that's too hard, or I don't know anything about that. But there's gonna be people that are going to tell you, I don't know about it, but I can try to help you. And there's gonna be people like, Oh, yes, absolutely, we can work on this. So just keep knocking on those doors. And keep, like, don't feel this courage. Just because someone say no. I just feel like I want to make sure that people, whoever is listening to this, or whoever I get to, in contrary to my life, I can make, like, tell them that everything is possible as long as they're willing to work for it. And as long as they are trying to find what works for them, because I can give you an advice. But what worked for me doesn't mean they're going to work for you. So just make sure that you're keep, keep trying ways until you find the one that works for you. And, yeah, just be yourself. Enjoy the moment. I keep doing the things I enjoy doing. Katie Clark 29:00 Thank you. I mean, that's so beautiful. And so moving. And so thank you for that. So that concludes our formal interview. So I want to thank you for your time
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Title: Transcript of Oral History Interview With Bashiru (BK) Kormah, 2022
Collection: Citizen Professionalism Project
Search Result: Oral History with Bashiru Kormah (2022) Wed, 3/30 4:06PM 16:24 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, professional, citizen, work, experiences, civic, vocation, learn, graduated, peace corps, civic leadership, conversation, opportunity, question, classes, community, deep, banyan, university, higher ...
Show more Oral History with Bashiru Kormah (2022) Wed, 3/30 4:06PM 16:24 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, professional, citizen, work, experiences, civic, vocation, learn, graduated, peace corps, civic leadership, conversation, opportunity, question, classes, community, deep, banyan, university, higher ed SPEAKERS Katie Clark, Bashiru Kormah Katie Clark 00:04 Thank you so much for participating in this oral history project with Augsburg University, and the Kettering Foundation exploring the concept of the citizen professional and higher ed. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of nursing and the executive director of the Augsburg Health Commons. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording? B Bashiru Kormah 00:26 My name BK Kormah, an alum of Augsburg University. Katie Clark 00:31 Great. So before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you give consent to be interviewed and having that interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public. B Bashiru Kormah 00:44 Yes, that's fine. Katie Clark 00:46 So when did you graduate from Augsburg University? B Bashiru Kormah 00:50 B Bashiru Kormah 00:50 I graduated in 2019. Katie Clark 00:53 Can you tell me a little bit about your educational background and what you're currently studying in your graduate degree? B Bashiru Kormah 01:01 I graduated from Osseo Senior High School. And then I went to Augsburg for my undergrad and got my degree in International Relations and International Business. Graduated as the university president in my junior year. So that was exciting. And then currently getting my graduate degree in Sustainable International Development at Brandeis University in Massachusetts. Katie Clark 01:32 Wow. Great. So asking you to think back at your time at Augsburg were there concepts of the citizen professional, civic engagement, civic leadership, or civic skills that were discussed in any of your classes or programs? And if so, which ones, if you remember? B Bashiru Kormah 01:53 Yes. So I remember the LEAD Fellow Program. I'm also remember there were several conversations I think with Dennis, I'm not sure of his name. Katie Clark 02:06 Dennis Donovan. B Bashiru Kormah 02:07 Yes. Regarding that citizen, professional, and also had leadership classes. I was also leadership minor with Professor Elaine, and I'm forgetting the other professors name, Katie Clark 02:22 Eschenbacher. B Bashiru Kormah 02:24 Yes. So that so that that conversation was came up often in leadership classes. Yes. So that so that that conversation was came up often in leadership classes. Katie Clark 02:34 Wonderful. So which of those experiences really stand out as being meaningful opportunities to learn, reflect and integrate lessons across coursework and community engaged learning? B Bashiru Kormah 02:49 Definitely the LEAD Fellows Program, because it was, it was very intentional with the trainings. And then with every other all of the students have in your program. We had the same conversation, and then we go out into the fields do our work together, discuss, learn more. So that program specifically believe on did a good job of targeting that goal. Katie Clark 03:14 Do you remember where your field placement was at? B Bashiru Kormah 03:18 Yeah, gotta never forget, I'm still in contact with them, Banyan Community, that's where my, my placement was, and I still have a very, very good and extensive relationship with those folks. Even after I graduated from Augsburg, I was still there working with them, and they often do recommendations for me. So yeah, it was Banyan Community. Katie Clark 03:41 So did you feel like some of those LEAD Fellow experiences spoke to your coursework when you were at Augsburg? Or did it feel somewhat disconnected? B Bashiru Kormah 03:53 I think it is just the field of my studies. I was in international relations, international business, and then being a leadership minor. So he just is really integrated really, really well. So I would say a good connected. Excellent. Katie Clark 04:09 So in what ways, if any, did the civic learning experiences while you were at Augsburg prepare you for your professional role or your opportunities for civic leadership? B Bashiru Kormah 04:24 B Bashiru Kormah 04:24 Yeah, like it prepared me really well, because right after that experience, I went directly into the Peace Corps right after college. So I think I'll just paid attention and see, and this conversation (about citizen professional) was just so deep in the guests because they were coming. So I was like, you know, I think this would be great. So just really, you know, like, just just concept I'm really wanting to learn more and dive more into it into really, really do similar work. Katie Clark 04:55 So do you feel like your experiences in the field were really what shaped your experiences moving forward? Or would you say some of the presentations in by Dennis Donovan or Elaine Eschenbacher, or that you mentioned? Did they really prepare you for post graduation life? B Bashiru Kormah 05:18 I would say it was called it was a collective experience I really helped shape my direction for, you know, after graduation, you know, just being a part of the program. And then working with other extremely gifted folks who are very passionate about doing work in the community. And that's one conversation that we had with with Dennis, it's conversation, where we have some high school students came into, and it was a very deep conversation. So this thing, just really had me hungry, I guess, for more. And that's how I decided going to the Peace Corps today to carry on similar work and be able to apply those leadership skills that I learned, you know, it does, it does work, it's very awesome, you know, to be able to incorporate it into the work I had to do. I felt very well equipped for the Peace Corps. Katie Clark 06:16 Well, and so I'm, I'm just curious, given, you know, your extensive involvement in such activities as the Peace Corps and being the president of the student body and all that. Were you like that in high school as well? Are you just, is that just kind of how you, you know, you always been or do you feel like Augsburg gave you different opportunities to develop those skills in different ways? B Bashiru Kormah 06:46 Yeah, I think in high school, the only thing I did pretty much in high school was soccer, and the Brooklyn Youth Council, like, which was a youth group that represented the youth within our cities for living in Brooklyn Park and Brooklyn Center. So those are the two main activities I did. And then, and then won the Act Six scholarship, and also, there was a lot that was similar to the work, to see where you can do additional work as well. So coming to Augsburg really exploded that, like I had an idea, but then just being a part of these programs, really, you know, exposed it. Then working with Elaine, and I got nominated for the Newman Civic Fellow. So that really, really, you know, that was a burst that I felt like I could soar. Katie Clark 07:35 That's amazing. And I remember your name, I think you spoke at a an event. B Bashiru Kormah 07:39 Yep. Yep. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Katie Clark 07:42 Excellent. Well, have you been able to use your civic learning and community? Some of these are a little bit redundant, but they're on purpose. So we're kind of asking the question in different ways to maybe just kind of, for things a little more, but have you been able to use your civic learning or community engagement experiences to affect decision making or be an agent of change as a professional? B Bashiru Kormah 08:03 Yes, so currently, I'm the youth director on the board for Brooklyn Park and Brooklyn Center. So that work is, I'm able to take those experiences especially going to do some leadership, and especially in the leadership course, courses, working with different folks. And then with the, with the citizen professional, that was just so powerful for those conversation, even how nurses you know, use their skills. It was it was deep. So like, for me, it just, it just kind of opened my mind said that no matter what career I go into, have the opportunity to, you know, to be an agent of change, regardless of if I'm in a position of power or not. Katie Clark 08:57 Great. What connections if any, do you see among your professional identity, your vocation and civic leadership? B Bashiru Kormah 09:07 Oh, I see that as a deep one. So vocation, Augsburg, man, I just got me reminiscent of freshman year. What's your vocation? What's your vocation? (laugh). So with that, I think just the fact that my, my vocation has always been on doing development work, and it just fits in so well with civic engagement. And just like this overall umbrella was citizen professional, so it's like, so it all goes well together, you know, so I can see that. But even though my, my, my my career path has shifted, because now you know, finance now - who would have thought? But still, it's you know, I'm working from home too, you know, but I also help with this conflict resolution, some of these things that we discuss, often, we always have been our work, you know, there, there's always, you know, these things happen. But it's also awesome that these skills, you know, to be incorporated into my, my professional life, and then knowing that this also working on my vocation as well. Which is to do more development work internationally, or wherever God leads me. Katie Clark 10:34 I think I need to circle back in a few years and redo this to see where you're at. Do you see yourself as a civic or citizen professional? If so, how do you describe that or explain it to others, even if you don't use that specific term, like, do you see yourself as a citizen or citizen professional? B Bashiru Kormah 10:55 I see myself as a citizen professional. And that's something, is funny, because I was I was ordained as pastor actually, honestly. And, and something I share with a folks, I was like, when I, when I'm blessed, and I'm the General Overseer of my own church, I would create this, this citizen professional culture, where you don't want to have to be within the church setting for you to you know, be seen as doing God's work, you know, you can be you know, that citizen professional mindset. And this to me, what it is, is you can be in any career field, but you can still be an agent of change, and being a voice for the voiceless. And then incorporating that into a church setting where you don't really have to be, you know, a pastor or deacon, you know, you can just be whatever, you could be a doctor, and you will still be doing God's work by being a citizen professional within your career, but being a good steward in your community and with your client. So I don't have a specific as a definition of it, but I just have this idea in my head of what it means to be a citizen professional, which is within your respective field, being an agent of change, and still doing work that other other people are doing for your intention. Katie Clark 12:25 That's great. Thank you. Um, so here's the question, and you can be completely honest. Is there anything that you wish you learned during your time at Augsburg that you didn't? B Bashiru Kormah 12:39 I wish like that, that term is something that always stuck with me. But I wish there was like this class 101 on how to answer that question. "What is a citizen professional?" But the discussion I think, is good. Like, I have this idea in my head like, this dream of, you know, having my own church and using that model or the method, right, but I just don't know enough of it. You know, so be like something I wish we really, we really dissected. So if you have any info, Katie, please send it my way. Katie Clark 13:14 The other, the last question really is, do you have anything that you want to share with us that I haven't asked? B Bashiru Kormah 13:23 Yeah, I mean, like, that entire thing was great. To be honest. Like, the citizen professional, it was like a movement, a huge movement. But maybe it was during my term, I feel like it didn't have a lot of buzz. You know? So, um, something I wish is, it was it was very intentional, it was integrated with all of the curriculum. Or that it was at least, even if it was just a required course, or it was embedded in required courses. So the students know these terms, you know, because, I mean, the work itself was just phenomenal. Katie Clark 14:06 So being that you're at another graduate, you know, you're at another institution of higher ed, do you see now being that you can compare the two any, any things that you wish Augsburg would have done different, that you maybe have where you're at? Or do you see things that you wish your new place had that Augsburg did, like, you know, now that you're kind of in an in a new higher ed space? B Bashiru Kormah 14:33 Yeah, it's a little different because I'm a graduate student and I'm at home, so I'm not really interacting with anyone. I just go to class and then I'm on my own, so that really skews my perception on that particular question. But I can say that particular experience at Augsburg you know, this one you know that my I always reminiscing on that experience which has shaped my culture and my stature those settings. Because at Brandeis is you know, especially the program I'm in it is mostly international students just all international students from all across the world. So be those classes, it was mostly discussion, you know having this conversation. So when I had the opportunity to share my answer, I'm not just thinking from this sole mindset, I'm thinking as a citizen professional or as a global citizen. How am I gonna approach this question, knowing that I have a bunch of diverse people with extremely diverse backgrounds. You know, so it has impacted me a lot. It'll be nice to if this conversation was on a graduate level, to be honest. Katie Clark 16:03 Well, that concludes all the questions that I have for the interview. So this has been an amazing opportunity to hear from your experiences, and I've learned a lot and I'm inspired truly so. Yeah, so I'll end the recording now.
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Title: Transcript of Oral History Interview With Emily Uecker, 2022
Collection: Citizen Professionalism Project
Search Result: Oral History with Emily Uecker (2022) Wed, 4/6 4:35PM 22:28 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, important, social worker, people, vocation, engaged, civic engagement, students, social, professional, experiences, work, community, big, bachelor, civic leadership, policy, special education, civic, h...
Show more Oral History with Emily Uecker (2022) Wed, 4/6 4:35PM 22:28 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, important, social worker, people, vocation, engaged, civic engagement, students, social, professional, experiences, work, community, big, bachelor, civic leadership, policy, special education, civic, helped SPEAKERS Katie Clark, Emily Uecker Katie Clark 00:02 Thank you so much for participating in this oral history project with Augsburg University and the Kettering Foundation exploring the concept of the citizen professional on higher education. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of nursing and the executive director of the Augsburg health comments. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording? E Emily Uecker 00:24 My name is Emily Uecker. Katie Clark 00:28 Great. And can you also tell us? When did you or when did you graduate from Augsburg? E Emily Uecker 00:36 Oh, I graduated with my bachelor's in social work in 2015. Katie Clark 00:42 And before we continue, I just want to confirm that you consent to being interviewed and having that interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public. E Emily Uecker 00:52 Yes Yes Katie Clark 00:54 So can you tell me a little bit about your educational background? And so you said you studied social work at Augsburg. So where are you working now too? That would be great. E Emily Uecker 01:05 Sure. So I work as a special education social worker at Sojourner Truth Academy in North Minneapolis. And then educational background, I did my bachelor's in Social Work at Augsburg, Augsburg was my first choice for college, when I went. I grew up in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and knew I wanted some good engagement in the community and in an urban environment. And so Augsburg was the top of my list. I then worked for a couple years after college and then decided to go back for my masters but went down to Washington University in St. Louis, and did my masters and social work there and missed the Twin Cities. So decided to move back. Katie Clark 01:06 So thinking about your time at Augsburg were the concepts of the citizen professional civic engagement, civic leadership or civic skills discussed in your classes or programs that you were involved with? And if so, do you remember which ones? E Emily Uecker 02:05 Yes, absolutely. I think all of those were discussed at some level of being a social work major of civic leadership is a big part of that of how to engage in the community, but then also how to engage at every level, I guess, I should say, in the community. So whether it's individuals, groups, institutions, and then even politics and policy of that's all discussed in terms of being a social worker, and how to create the best environment for people moving forward and stay true to those values. I was also involved in the Bonner Leaders Program. And that was really important for both civic engagement and civic leadership, because that was discussed very often. And then interfaith scholars as well as that scholarship program. And we engaged in the community through a spiritual lens, so talked about different spiritual traditions and how that contributes to our understanding of what what civic engagement means. Katie Clark 03:15 So you're naturally engaged person yourself? Great. So which experiences if any standout is meaningful opportunities to learn, reflect and integrate lessons across both your coursework and the community engaged learning? E Emily Uecker 03:34 Sure. So those last two I mentioned the Bonner Leaders and Interfaith scholars is what I always Sure. So those last two I mentioned the Bonner Leaders and Interfaith scholars is what I always tell people were some of the best things I did during college. Bonner gave me the chance, I think it's called like the LEAD Fellows now or something, but they gave me the chance to have internships in the community from basically the moment I stepped foot on campus. It was a program I entered my freshman year, I had engaged with people working at other agencies. And so it was not only being able to have that support of being placed right away at a internship at a nonprofit, and getting work study money to do that. But then having the support to come back to of working with people at the Sabo Center and having that supervision but then also having monthly meetings where I talk to people who are doing internships at nonprofits across the Twin Cities. And so that not only helped my perspective of seeing the different ways, one can be involved in civic engagement. It wasn't all nonprofits, somewhere, government some were other sectors but it was all related to the community and so hearing the about different people's experiences, and then having that experience myself was so important. And then also just that network to go into when I was looking for jobs is being able to say, Oh, hey, I know I didn't work at the Wilder Foundation. But I know people who did and can talk to them about the work that they do, or whether it be housing or food shelf programs, or different things that you kind of need to do as a social worker of coordinating all those services. Having those connections really helped me. And then interfaith scholars stuck out more so for the how the spiritual component connected, and I think that was really important, too. I think that was a good grounding in that work, of kind of bringing it back internally of what's your motivation? Why do you want to do this for the world? Katie Clark 06:01 Excellent. And this, you kind of already answered this. So if something else comes to mind, let me know. But in what ways did civic learning experiences that Augsburg prepare you to be more ready for professional roles or civic leadership? E Emily Uecker 06:17 Sure. So again, like I talked about, seeing the different sectors was really important. I think Augsburg also provided the groundwork with different student groups to be engaged. So I was involved some with Students for Racial Justice, I was also really encouraged politically at Augsburg, like a lot of college campuses. I think that's when people are starting to get involved in politics, and was excited about that. So I ended up working for the DFL for a semester of getting students. We were trying to increase voter turnout for the 2014 midterms, was the main purpose and so engaging, really literally, democracy that way. And I bring that up, because as someone that, I think, part of the time during college, I was like, Yeah, I want to do like these big policy things. I'm going to be an organizer, I'm going to do this and then having an organizing job and was just like, No, no, I don't. So being able to have that space, Augsburg to kinda like try and experiment was really good. So then when I did go into the workforce, I knew some of what, okay, this is what I'm looking for. And this is what I'm not. And that obviously takes time, but to figure out in a more concrete way, but having the space to do that. Katie Clark 07:53 So what is your job look like? Now, now that you're, you know, a social worker, and you sit in the school, right? E Emily Uecker 08:01 So my title is a special education social worker, I'm at a pre-K through eight charter school. And I have a caseload of mostly third through eighth graders. They are all students who have individual education plans, so qualify for special education. I run individual and group behavior and social skills classes. And at a lot of schools, they'll have special education, teachers running social skills and behavior skills more. And part of the reason that the school has a social worker doing it is a lot of students who get diagnosed with emotional behavioral disorder, a lot of that's the source of trauma. And so having someone that has that social work background, to be able to work with them and recognize that trauma, so I do that individual work. I also do a lot of communicating with parents and referring them to additional mental health supports, outside of school, always talking to teachers. So it's everything from doing schedules and behavior trackers for kids with helping them to stay on track to talking about things going on in life to having a third grade girls group where we talk about mean girls and all the things that come with that. Katie Clark 09:29 So do you feel like some of the experiences you had had you had at Augsburg prepared you for the role you're in now or does it seem kind of disconnected? E Emily Uecker 09:40 I think it definitely connects. I think that having the social work experience was really important of that bachelor's of Social Work. Especially being someone who did both a bachelor's and a master's of a lot of people do their masters in social work without having a bachelor's when it first if they do psychology or something else, but having that bachelor's really helped me to see different sides of social work. And so right now I kind of walk the line but between clinical and generalist. I've done a plan to do clinical track, or get that full licensure. And really, it's my time at Augsburg that's helped me sort of stay grounded and figure out how to set those boundaries and how to figure that out because it let me look at everything that social workers do. And had I just gone for my master's, it would have been specialized right away. So that was really important in my education, but then also having that on the ground experience of just being able to say, going in that I've worked in youth spaces for almost a decade now is huge. And like there's a lot that I've learned on the ground, like anybody who works with kids or works with people will tell you if it just takes time to find your rhythm and different things. And so it was really important that I had those experiences in college as well. Katie Clark 11:24 Have you been able to use your civic learning or community engagement experience to affect decision making or be an agent of change as a professional and if so how? E Emily Uecker 11:37 So one way is just within my school of being able to advocate for students, I've been here for school wide policies that are really important, or set up my own structure, if there's a lack of structure. Because we're a small independent school, sometimes there's not the same level of across the board procedures that there would be in a large district. So being able to do that, and set that is a big way that I affect change within my workplace. I think, also, I'm part of the Minnesota school social workers association, and we just had our Day on the Hill recently. So I actually had the opportunity to talk to Melissa Hortman, she's a representative, and she's currently the Speaker of the House for the state of Minnesota, about increasing funding for school support professionals within schools. Katie Clark 12:52 So this is kind of a dense question, but what connections if any, do you see among your professional identity, your vocation, and civic leadership? Very Augsburg type question, right? professional identity, vocation and civic leadership. Let me think. And it's okay if you don't see a connection. E Emily Uecker 13:23 So I definitely see a connection between the three. I feel like social work is something I'm good at and youth work in general, there's something I'm good at. And something that has that both like enjoyment and skill, alignment or spiritual and skill alignment that comes with vocation. I think that so my job is something that's within my vocation, and then I do have civic engagement and civic leadership within that. I think one thing I will say about vocation that I've come to see since my time at Augsburg, I think I got very wrapped up in this idea of your job is who you are. And so that's something I'm working on personally right now of trying to move away from that, some. Because I think that leads to burnout, to a big extent of I am more than just my job title. And figuring out what that means in my spiritual, social, personal life is important to me as well as I think that vocation can be a wonderful thing. I think that having a job that has a component of civic engagement is wonderful, and something that my heart is definitely in. And I also understand that it's a privilege. I was in a situation that I didn't have to chase, what was going to make me a certain amount of money or certain amount of financial security, and had a little more flexibility with that, even though obviously, bills are still a thing, and money is important. I don't have to take care of my parents, like, some of my classmates did, or I don't have children on my own, like some of my classmates did. And so I see it as a huge privilege to be able to be in a space where I'm doing something that feels like I'm part of a community, and it's very much aligned with my heart and for people. Katie Clark 15:55 Do you see yourself as a civic or citizen professional, even if you only use that specific term? And if you do, how would you describe that or explain that to others? E Emily Uecker 16:09 Sure, so I think that the field of social work really does this well. It's this idea that policy affects who we work with, at every level, including down to the most local office. And so being who we work with, at every level, including down to the most local office. And so being engaged, politically is important to me, not only for, for my job, but outside of it as well. I see myself as a citizen professional, because I choose to since I work in Minneapolis, I also choose to live in Minneapolis. And that's where I vote. I make sure that who I'm paying attention to and talking to, when I talk to representatives as well, or when I pay attention to local elections, like city council elections, if I was paying attention to my home ward, and I was paying to the attention to the ward, where I work. It was important to me to see how that would affect the people that I work with. And then I also think of it as in some ways, a form of self care is being involved in those policy things. I see kids every day, that don't have a lot of agency and some of the things they've been through. And their families don't even have a lot of agency and some of the things they've had to go through if it's affected by bigger forces, like policy. And so for my own view, on my profession, it's important for me to know those policies and be engaged with them, because I can't change it in a second. Like, I want to. Katie Clark 18:16 Yeah, I think one thing that I'm kind of finding through this process is I think a lot of people and you just described it greatly, but a lot of people are really being civic or citizen professionals, but maybe the words don't resonate with people as as, as the actual terms, right, so you think of any other terminology that could really fit around this that you've heard that would work to to really describe a citizen, professional or civic engagement? Or do you think that sticking with these terms, moving forward is fine? E Emily Uecker 18:54 I can see people getting hung up on the word citizen. I don't know. It's hard to like, condense it to a term. So I think there's some and I'm sure that's what you've struggled with, of like, I think there's something to be said for asking about, like, how people are involved with policy, in terms of their profession, or maybe even just like, Are you a politically engaged professional, because I think there's a lot of discourse around that to have like, that's expanded a lot in a lot of spaces. Of like, the politics is personal and I don't know. Katie Clark 20:05 Is there anything you wish you would have learned at your time at Augsburg that you didn't learn? or is there other opportunities or experiences you wish you had to prepare you for your current career? E Emily Uecker 20:19 I think that vocation piece can be tricky. I think how it was taught at the time that I was at Augsburg, which, again, was now several years ago, so might be different now. But at the time, it was very much that push for vocation seemed like your identity was wrapped up in it. And so I think ways to find your identity outside of that, and exploring spirituality, and whatever else outside of that is important too. Your work in the world doesn't have to be the work you're paid to do. Katie Clark 21:03 Very good. Is there anything else you would like to share with us that I didn't ask? E Emily Uecker 21:11 Um, I guess one thing I'll say so I mentioned I went to Washington University for grad school, which is like this, you know, top 20 for undergrad, big social work program, and I missed Augsburg so much when I was there. It was tough to be at a social work program at a school that wasn't liked by the community. They were seen as, and rightfully so, as just like a big resource up and sort of elitist entity there. I missed Augsburg, even though they get it wrong, sometimes even though there is like, the time it's taken for Augsburg to shift to be more civically engaged, I think that it really does try its hardest to live up to its mission and its values. And I missed that and appreciate that. Katie Clark 22:17 Thank you, and thank you for taking the time for this interview. That concludes our interview. So I just want to say thanks again.
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Title: Transcript of Oral History Interview With Noah Greenfield, 2022
Collection: Citizen Professionalism Project
Search Result: Oral History with Noah Greenfield (2022) Tue, 5/10 2:46PM 23:43 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, people, civic, professional, workplace, citizen, learned, guess, leadership, student, classes, internships, civic leadership, disconnected, vocation, civic duty, studied, interviewed, thinking, hel...
Show more Oral History with Noah Greenfield (2022) Tue, 5/10 2:46PM 23:43 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, people, civic, professional, workplace, citizen, learned, guess, leadership, student, classes, internships, civic leadership, disconnected, vocation, civic duty, studied, interviewed, thinking, helped SPEAKERS Katie Clark, Noah Greenfield Katie Clark 00:02 All right, so thank you for participating in this oral history project with Augsburg University and the Kettering Foundation, exploring the concept of the civic professional in higher ed. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of nursing and executive director of the Augsburg Health Commons. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording? N Noah Greenfield 00:23 All right. Hi, I am Noah Greenfield. Katie Clark 00:27 Great. So and before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed and having that interviewed stored at Augsburg University, which we which will be made available to the public. N Noah Greenfield 00:40 I consent to be to being recorded. Yes. Katie Clark 00:44 Wonderful. So when did you or when will you graduate from Augsburg? N Noah Greenfield 00:51 I graduated from Augsburg in December of 2019. I graduated from Augsburg in December of 2019. Katie Clark 00:56 know can you tell me a little bit about your educational background and what you studied while you were at Augsburg? N Noah Greenfield 01:05 Yes, I studied a couple different things while at Augsburg. I majored in public policy. So I took a lot of political science classes and some sociology classes. And then I minored in, it was a really cool thing, the leadership studies minor, which was brand new the first year I ever got there. And so I was kind of a guinea pig for the program. And so we had specifically leadership courses, and then some electives for the course that were communication classes, getting sociology classes, things like that. Yeah, that's kind of what I started to Augsburg, formally, and then informally through student groups and programs, lots of lots of other things as well, like government and citizenship and civic duty stuff like that. Yeah. Katie Clark 02:01 Great. So thinking back at your time at Augsburg were the concepts of the citizen professional civic engagement, civic leadership, or civic skills discussed in your classes or programs you're involved with? And if so, which ones if you remember, N Noah Greenfield 02:19 I would say, I studied political science and really, really did not talk about civic life very much and civic duty, civic engagement. Pretty much at all. I know my leadership studies class did, just from what we studied, was the social change model of leadership. So in that, under that was, you know, civil discourse we talked about in their citizenship was one of the main courses on how to be a citizen in society. So that would be my leadership studies courses, probably the only ones that talked about that. Katie Clark 03:01 Were you in any internships or student groups outside of your courses or classes? N Noah Greenfield 03:10 Yes, yeah, I did a lot of internships. I interned with CTUL (Centro de Trabajadores Unidos En La Lucha), which is a center for workers united struggle, worked there for about two years with their developmental director, like writing grants and fundraising, programming and stuff like that. And then I worked for the Humanist Society. I work for a couple of doctorate students working on, like meaning how people find meaning in life, who are not religious. That was like, super cool. And then I did a HECUA (Higher Education Consortium for Urban Affairs) internship with the Homeless Coalition, I kind of worked with the policy director there and doing research for her trying to figure out data about kids who are homeless on the streets, stuff like that. And then a couple groups, student government, I was highly active in for about three years. That was wonderful. I like that a lot. And then, just a couple of like, the Cedar Commons, I guess, at Augsburg University had stuff every week or you could just kind of go to and talk with people about certain topics religion, communication, things like that civic duty, civic life, though, kind of spoke to you every week as well. But yeah, it was very busy, busy at Augsburg University. Katie Clark 04:44 So what are you doing now? N Noah Greenfield 04:50 Right now I work at a smaller nonprofit called the alternatives for people with autism. We take care of adults who have severe autism. As well as some form of like, of mental retardation. And I'm like the, like the apartment manager over there. So I just oversee around like six or seven employees and we take care of four people. So yeah, that's what I do now. Katie Clark 05:20 Okay, which experiences if any standout as meaningful opportunities to learn, reflect and integrate lessons across coursework and community engaged learning? This is back to your Augsburg time, describe those experiences. And it's okay if they were disconnected, because some students they were so that's totally fine. We're looking to find those holes if there are some. N Noah Greenfield 05:51 At Augsburg, I would say that they were fairly disconnected. I think on student government, they were fairly connected. Just with the small group of people that we had in student government that were passionate about it. I would say that there was there was some collections with that as well, just with people being like, elected representatives on the student body and acting out being an elected representative of somebody while in their daily life at Augsburg, so they weren't to disconnect in a way, they were, you know, talking as if trying to solve problems while on campus as to their friends to their classes. And in that, it wasn't always connected to There's certain times where they feel more connected than others, when people are more motivated. Like it's passionate. I guess the other time where it's been connected is through LEAD fellows. It's something that some Sabo does. That's how I have so many internships is because of lead fellows and Elaine and what they did over there, but the kind of group work that we did, and what we talked about when we would meet up as a group. They felt very connected. I think Elaine was very, I guess, intentional about that, I think the things we talked about, really got us thinking about how to how to have like live life, more civically, I guess, and more responsible and voting and like knowing what's going on and knowing about knowing that the ideas and the ideologies I guess, of the people you were with, and and talking about them. Katie Clark 07:56 So in what ways, if any, did civic learning experiences at Augsburg preparing you to be more ready for your professional role? or civic leadership after you graduated? N Noah Greenfield 08:10 Yeah. I think a lot I think, especially in the workplace, I think it's helped me a bunch. With, with coworkers, I guess. And and again, bosses too. I think that's where it's helped me the most. I guess with like, how to navigate a conversation that might be uncomfortable, I think is like, the biggest thing that it's kind of taught me is when things become more like petty is what I mean by difficult conversation. The civic teachings kind of like helping you see the bigger picture, I guess, of like, why you're there and what you're doing. So it kind of helps navigate those conversations and not get caught up with you know, like, things that might not mean a whole lot of in the bigger picture, but can feel very important. Like, right there. Yeah, helping navigate conversations with coworkers is probably like, the biggest thing and then helped make, I guess decisions for the people that work for me and in a more balanced way where I can. So it's not just about the work it's also about them as people to like how how do they feel showing up every day is something that needs to be taken an accounting for when you're making decisions for everybody is their hours. You know, if they're there, back to back too much or they're not getting enough time at home or away, or they're working too many afternoons so that they're not getting to see people during the day, stuff like that, where it's like, what helps people be like a person in society is like, yeah, I guess that just kind of helps make make decisions, I guess. Well, at work. So. Katie Clark 10:20 Would you say that your time at Augsburg has helped you engage more in your larger community outside of the workplace? Or were you just kind of born that way? Because it sounds like you're kind of an engaged person to begin with. N Noah Greenfield 10:37 So I am an engaged person to begin with, but I'm going from like the country. So it would be pretty hard if I didn't have Augsburg to show me show me how, I guess to like, point my compass, because I think I would just sort of gone off in that, like, you've done other stuff, for sure. But in terms of like, engaging in like, a civic way, Augsburg definitely kind of like taught me like, I guess, some like ground rules and some basic, you know, formulations and how to do that. So yeah, I would say definitely. Yeah. Katie Clark 11:13 Katie Clark 11:13 And this question is a little bit redundant. But we're kind of doing that just to see if it spurs any other ideas, but have you? And you've heard answered it already. But have you been able to use your civic learning or community engagement experience to affect decision making? Or be an agent of change as a professional? If so, how? N Noah Greenfield 11:32 Oh, my Yes. Oh, my gosh, yeah, that's, that's like, that's number one. I guess what I've taken away is, like, with my degree in public policy was "slash" change. So change is something that's like, extremely important me like positive change. So it's like, that's right now I'm actually at my job, I'm using my leadership studies degree, the social change model of leadership with my apartment, and the people who I work with and work with me, and we're trying to like work through that book, to kind of our overarching goals is to effectively communicate with each other and to be a team. So we don't really feel like a team right now. And so that's my positive change that I want to make. And then we're, like, all just talking about these aspects of like individual values and group values. And, you know, like, what do we need from each other? And so, and I would have no idea how to do any of them. It wasn't for what I learned at Augsburg, for sure. So it's really nice to have. Katie Clark 12:36 Well, this one is a little dense, people get tripped up on this next one? So what, if any, do you see among your professional identity, your vocation, and civic leadership? So do you see any connections between those? If you don't, that's okay. So professional identity, vocation and civic leadership? N Noah Greenfield 13:05 Yeah, that's a really good question. That's like a write down question. But I will definitely try to answer that the best. So professional identity. I guess what I'm when I hear when I think when I hear that is how other people and how you see yourself in a professional workplace, how you like, your vision of yourself or other people see, vocation is what like, gets me going, what motivates me and what's my calling? And like, why do I do what I do? And then last one was in my that my civic duty, you said? Katie Clark 13:41 Your civic leadership, N Noah Greenfield 13:43 Civic leadership, okay. And I know that connection between those I would say there's, there's a connection between those for me, I think there has to be a connection, or I will look for someplace else, or I will go someplace else, I think those three have to have, there's has to be some type of connection I can make in my head between those to really my all in a workplace and I would say civic leadership, like I that's what I've been working on the most. The other two vocation wise, I love caring for people. So it's like no matter what aspect I can do that with, that's it. That's it with my position and in the first one. Just to be a leader at work and to be, you know, conscious and communicate with people, I think is really what I do at work and how people see me and what I want people to see me as someone they can come to and solve problems and talk to you and then civic leadership is just living those, living those out together. And I think some days is harder and I would say I would be lying if I said every day they feel connected. I think you have to work to, to connect those. I would say, when I'm on when I'm feeling good, and I have had a good day and is rest and wake up feeling ready and motivated those, there's those three have to be connected for me and are connected. Katie Clark 15:22 Yeah. When I would think to you know, given if you're living your vocational dream, and you're putting all your passion into your, you know, chosen profession, you it's easy to burn out. N Noah Greenfield 15:35 Oh, yeah, yes. Yeah. Katie Clark 15:38 So every day is a different day. Yeah. So N Noah Greenfield 15:40 Yeah. New struggle, new fight. Katie Clark 15:46 So, do you see yourself as a civic or citizen professional, even if that specific term doesn't resonate with you? And if so, could you describe it or explain i N Noah Greenfield 16:03 Hmm. Um, I think so. It's hard, just from, it feels like, I work in Brooklyn Park, and I live in Minneapolis. And those kind of feel a little disconnected when I think of citizen I think of the work I'm doing for that to be the work where I'm living as well. So that feels like they have to be connected. But I think in my mind, they kind of go to that. I think in Minneapolis, it's harder to be a citizen, than I think anywhere else in Minnesota, it feels like just with how big it is, and how many different ideas and people there are, or it's, it's almost to be a citizen is to step on people's toes a little bit, which like, it's fine, I think. But I think it's becoming harder to step on people's toes, I guess, challenge ideas and communicate with them very clearly about those ideas. Like that's getting a little harder. Because it's just so big, where, whereas when I'm at work, it feels smaller, and it feels much more attainable, and easier to be a citizen and act of take an active role in the community there. than it is here. But I guess that's yeah. Katie Clark 17:43 In your opinion on this too, because I feel like you're so I've think I've done like six of these now. And I feel like sometimes the word civic, professional or citizen professional, like doesn't resonate with students or alone? Like, is there terminology to get at what we're getting at? You know, and if, if it doesn't resonate with you, I'd be interested. And if it doesn't, I'd be interested to to see if you thought of any other way to describe what we're describing something else? N Noah Greenfield 18:20 What, what is the definition of civic professional? Katie Clark 18:25 Yeah, so civic, professional, or citizen professional would kind of be like, so for example, as a nurse, so it'd be not just like working within my institution, but really seeing myself as being engaged in the community, thinking about social justice, co creating different things with people like kind of leveling or de emphasizing that power. So really trying to be Hey, we're, we're all part of this country. And so what is our duty to make sure that we're involved and shape decisions in our governments because technically, in a perfect democratic society, that's what it would be. But I believe we've kind of fallen away from that. And professionals kind of are in this ivory tower. So how do we get away from that? You know, yeah, yeah. N Noah Greenfield 19:15 I think I don't think there is a better word for that. I think people feel disconnected of that from that or people like if you're interviewing people from like, if my age or younger me or similar to my age. I just think people that have no concept of that. I think there's people just don't understand what that would even mean what that would look like. I mean, he's looking like any like television shows or anything or you don't see anything like that if people in the workplace it's very you know, you're you're an individual and your workplace you're there to get money. You're there to do a certain whatever motivates you to get there and then you're gonna go home. And I've found that with people that work for me too, is There that's I'm trying to kind of suss out is like, what's the bigger thing for why you're here? So I think people are confused and feel disconnect from it. Because there's, there's, there's there's probably no word for or phrase for it for people. So I think it's a good phrase. I like the phrase. But yeah, I think that would probably be why it's just people don't have a concept of it. There's no set of places like like CTUL or, or people or workplaces that are specifically honed in on that aspect of it and make a big part of their mission to do that. Katie Clark 20:41 Katie Clark 20:41 So, is there anything you wish you would have learned during your time at Augsburg that you didn't? N Noah Greenfield 20:53 That's a good a question I wish I had learned. Katie Clark 20:59 Or maybe it's there are other opportunities or experience you wish that you would have had to prepare you for your future career? It could be either or? N Noah Greenfield 21:08 That's a good one. I don't think I came away from my experience thinking that I think in looking back, it's hard as I learned so many different things where it's like, what else could I have learned? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if there was I'm sure if I'm sure there's something because there always is. But right. Just right now, I think I learned so many different things with with the liberal arts education, having so many different areas of learning and my minors and majors allowed for so many different areas of learning that I felt like they had so much I think, if I could have learned one thing more I would have liked learn the arguments of conservatives more and thought about them deeper, so I could more easily refuted them. I think. I think that's one thing that I would have loved. I think the only one class we really got there was like an argumentation class, where we actually really learned about opposing perspectives, like deeply. I think that that's probably the one thing I would learn coming back. Katie Clark 22:21 Well, so is there anything that you'd like to add that I didn't ask you about at all? N Noah Greenfield 22:30 Um, like add to like, add to the this recording? Katie Clark 22:35 Yes. Is there Yeah, that you want to share that I didn't ask you about? N Noah Greenfield 22:39 I don't know. I think Augsburg is doing a pretty good job. But I think I'm kind of a special case of our experience, just with, with the type of learning that I did get in to being the guinea pig for that leadership program. I think the leadership program was probably a very good start on this that leadership program. I think the leadership program was probably a very good start on this what you guys doing now? And like, what we're trying to do in the workplace, and yeah, I don't know. I think it's I think it's cool. I think there has to be some sort of like, bigger thing people need to go to in need to think of in their minds when they go to work or when they are walking around every day. I think we're definitely losing touch with that right now. Katie Clark 23:34 Well, thank you so much. This has been so insightful. So that concludes our interview. So I'll stop the recording. I appreciate your time.
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Title: Transcript of Oral History Interview with Oscar Martinez, 2022
Collection: Citizen Professionalism Project
Search Result: Oral History with Oscar Martinez (2022) Thu, 3/24 5:54PM 28:08 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, augsburg, community, civic, learning, professional, bonner, daily struggles, vocation, graduated, work, college, feel, tutoring, affect, interview, company, harder, related, prepare SPEAKERS Katie C...
Show more Oral History with Oscar Martinez (2022) Thu, 3/24 5:54PM 28:08 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, augsburg, community, civic, learning, professional, bonner, daily struggles, vocation, graduated, work, college, feel, tutoring, affect, interview, company, harder, related, prepare SPEAKERS Katie Clark, Oscar Martinez Katie Clark 00:00 All right. Well, thank you for participating in this oral history project with Augsburg University and the Kettering Foundation, exploring the concept of the Civic Professional in higher education. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of nursing. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording? O Oscar Martinez 00:43 Yes, my name is Oscar Martinez-Armenta. I'm an Augsburg alum. I graduated at 2016. And I'm now working as a quality technician. Katie Clark 00:55 Great. And also, before we continue, I just want to confirm that you consent to being interviewed and having your interview stored at Augsburg University, which we which will be made available to the public. O Oscar Martinez 01:08 I consent to all of that Katie Clark 01:10 Thank you. When did you graduate from Augsburg? O Oscar Martinez 01:15 Oscar Martinez 01:15 Spring 2016. Katie Clark 01:18 Great. Can you tell me a little bit about your educational background and what you studied while you were at Augsburg? O Oscar Martinez 01:25 Well, I got a Bachelors of Science in chemistry from the kind of knew before I started college that I wanted to pursue a STEM related subject. I think there was time in high school my junior where I had doubts about my abilities to speak and write English well. So I try to stray away from any related to writing and speaking in English, and I felt that a STEM degree would push me in the right direction, that's one of the major reasons I choose chemistry. But then I actually fell in love with the subject. And that's that stuff. Katie Clark 02:23 Well, thinking back over your time at Augsburg, where the concepts of citizen professional, civic engagement, civic leadership or civic skills discussed in any of your classes or programs that you were involved with? O Oscar Martinez 02:44 My professors were really good about having speakers come in and discuss what the community on campus had about volunteering, and being part of other groups on campus. And we went kind of walking through hallways looking at the posters and what was on the websites. So it was easy for me to see some of the opportunities that were available in regard to civic engagement, and whatnot. And even before I started seeing things like the announcements before I started college, it was kind of something I knew I wanted to do, just because I was already doing it in high school. So I wanted to I wanted to have a healthy balance of education in the classroom. And kind of participation out in the community, especially in the surrounding community. Katie Clark 03:55 Great! Which of the experiences that you had while you're at Augsburg stand out as really meaningful opportunities to learn, reflect, or integrate lessons across coursework and community engaged learning? (Laughter) I don't even remember the name of the program anymore. it's okay if you don't remember the name of the program, but do you remember doing something that was related to community engagement? O Oscar Martinez 04:39 Yeah. Katie Clark 04:45 Well, there's the Christianson scholars. There's a Strommen scholars. There's the Bonner student or LEAD fellow. O Oscar Martinez 04:53 There we go - Bonner! Elaine is going to hate me for that one! (Laughter). So, when I was a Bonner I got placed at this nonprofit organization, and that was pushing the price for the low wage workers to a minimum of $15 an hour. And prior to being placed there, I had heard about (you know) why this push was happening, but actually working in different outlook and put a face to the fight, rather than just reading about it. And it's helped me connect with people in see how they are pursuing that people have to live, they have to buy food, get transportation, to feed the families, and really connected and made me understand why people were doing what they were fighting for themselves. It's just like, I was able to chat with a lot of people and understanding the struggle. And just being part of that felt like that I was doing something meaningful in the community. Great. And were you able to take any of those experiences and bring them back into your coursework? Or did it feel kind of disconnected? It felt somewhat disconnected. Just because my classroom, I mean, again my courses, well at the beginning not so much. They were pretty well rounded. You have your other courses to get your degree like this chemistry. And then you have a little bit others English, music, related closely. You have religion. But once I got to a higher level courses. Yes, much higher level courses began my junior year or senior year. I don't have a well rounded coursework anymore. It's mainly STEAM related. And for me its been stuck in the lab a lot. And during experiements so you kind of have professors try to connect what were learning to the outside world, you know, learning electrons, explaining how we can use that in the world. But really tying to some other things that I was experiencing. What's the daily struggle of some living across the street - well I don't know, I am not learning that in my chemistry class. So yeah, it was disconnected, feel like I was living in different worlds. Especially as an upperclassman. Well, so it makes me really excited to hear your answer for the next question. Did any of the civic learning experiences, like being a Bonner, prepare you to be ready for a professional or civic or your professional role or even involved in civic leadership, once you graduated? Katie Clark 08:35 Yes, and no. I mean, out of college, and I still do some tutoring, as well come right out of college. Thinking about keep helping out in the community. But I also needed to make a living as well. So I was like, Okay, well, my first year I did a little bit of tutoring outside of work. But then I got to the point where I just kind of focused on work and just hanging out with friends and family and not so much so civic engagment and it's been like that for a few years now. I've just kind of dedicated more time and energy towards my professional career and not so much to civic engagment. So start off well but... O Oscar Martinez 09:35 O Oscar Martinez 09:35 That's okay. All circles back. Right. Well, and so this question is similar but comes at a different angle. So have you been able to use your civic learning or community engagement experience to affect your decision making or be an agent of change as a professional so you kind of already answered the second part, but has it affected your decision making Since you've graduated in any way? Yeah, when it is asked like that, yes because I'm trying to grow as a professional. I'm always conscious of the people that I'm working with, regardless of what level they are in the company. And so you know, some of some of the decisions that I get to make are pretty important and affect how some of my co workers have worked. So, before I try to implement certain actions, I try to ask them to see how its going to impact them as they are going to be the ones doing the the day to day work for some of the decisions that I made, so I try to make sure that it's not too much time to their work. And it's not too late and intensive for them. And we're not I've always been a people person, too. So it's, I try to connect with my coworkers. And of course, I respect personal boundaries, and I understand theere are different personalities, your introverts and extroverts try to meet people where they are at. So yeah, I mean, you know, as I grew up professionally, I don't want some of those. I don't want some of that to change for me. You know, I try to respect people, and try to find ways to make it not harder. And I think right now we're on emotionless. That's kind of like the attitude of the people here. The word culture is really great. I mean, people are trying to get along, and I'm trying to grow with this company. But you know, being where I'm at, I'm somewhere in a company where I'm on the floor with a lot of production employees. So I know their daily struggles. But I also interact with upper management, folks up in front of offices, so I get to see their take. So as I grew up, and grow in the company and get to some of those upper management roles, like, I'll definitely have some of those thoughts. You know, in the back of my head, and keep in mind, the daily struggles of people trying to serve them. That was a long response, but yes, I feel like some of it. I do apply some of those skills, and knowledge that I've learned in my professional life, and I try to take care of people I work with and its worked out so far. Katie Clark 13:07 Well, it sounds like you're very relational. And actually, you're actually very political when you're at work, which really is being, you know, being involved in democratic everyday life and being a citizen professional, butsometimes you don't recognize that that's so important. So kudos to you. So given that, you know, I can see, you know, being a nurse, I could see how STEM may have a disconnect, or, you know, careers following. Is there something at Augsburg that you wish you would have had to prepare you for the career that you do have in in context to it could really be anything, but this is kind of my own question, just thinking about career readiness. And we often think this, about this through the lens of being involved in the community. But is there something else that would have better prepared you for the world as it is in your profession? Yeah, so throughout college did a really good job of getting internships and academic labs, or going into school or academically. So, I mean, enhancing my lab skills. Looking back now, I wish I would have done some industrial experience more industrial experience, because I get to see how people operate and what happens when the other managers who disagree with you, as opposed to what they call principal investigator or PI, like the lab supervisor, they're gonna be a little more lenient with you, or at least they should be. So whereas industrical experience as you know, people have to meet deadlines, they have to send out auits and they are going to have to deal with complaints? And so I didn't get that in college. So then I wish I would have learned how to deal with real life a little more, especially with different people and other baggage. I wish I would have been more industrial. O Oscar Martinez 15:30 Thank you for answering that. That's helpful. So what connections, if any, do you see among professional identity, your vocation and civic leadership? Do you see any connections between those? Full disclosure, Elaine wrote these not me. So if you can yell at her later. Yeah, of course, what connections do you see among your professional identity, your vocation, and your civic leadership? Well, at least on a personal level, you know, even the company where I work for it, you know, we make products for the vehicle care industry. And they have this model website, they have a lot. And one of those ways of seeing water reveals of chemistry, right. But you know, when I see videos are of a product we make, and that's the logo, we're still using modern, a lot of things and we are so wasteful, so trying to see like how I can help improve academic, it'd be great if we wouldn't waste water period. There are a lot of places that need it, like California has their own struggles. Places in Africa. So that's, that's in the back of my head, because I started there as well, because it would cool if I was working something more green. Katie Clark 17:21 Sure. O Oscar Martinez 17:22 And then my company's trying to actually reduce the amount of water that we waste. So you know, I'm trying to go with a company, they're trying to do something that's meaningful for the community and actually helps. But sometimes I still struggle with that. And that kind of ties into location, I feel because you're, I mean, it's for me, I want to do something that affects a lot of people in a beneficial way. And it doesn't affect a lot of it doesn't reach a lot people, at least, it's only a few people, at least it It reaches them in a substantial way. So I don't know. It's it's kind of, sometimes I feel like it's kind of hard to balance all those things, you know, trying to grow within your profession, doing something for your communities, finding your vocation. If it was up to me, I was I would try to start a company where I'm hiring people who are from underprivileged communities and really need a job, but also grow within these companies, and are making a product that's affecting the community in a very impactful way. I don't know what that product is, you know, if I could get there, I would, you know, that kind of would connect also this component that you're talking about. But as it stands, you know, I can't tell you like, sacrificing any of those components, like, you know, when any given day at my work place I'm, honestly, I'm still trying to find my vocation. So I don't know, maybe I'll have a clear answer in the future, but there is, like really weak answer. What do I want? What kind of legacy do I want in my community? Because, you know, like, when I'm at work, I'm interacting with some customers, but I'm not always interacting with people that are affecting, you know, like, far down the road, far down the road. So if I could have a more direct relationship with my customers, people in the community, I don't know, maybe people's gardens, you know, something along those lines? Yeah, sorry. No, these answers are great. And exactly what we're hoping to hear more of, because we're learning more about what this means to you and what the realities are. I mean, so would you say that you consider yourself a civic professional? Or what maybe I'm hearing that that's what you're striving to be? Striving to be but I wouldn't consider myself one. You know, like I said, my company handled how things are wasted. You know, I mean, if you break it down, I mean, technically I am serving communities to help eliminated or reduce waste, but it's very different from what I experienced in college, having more direct relationship out with community members, like right now this year, like I'm working with people who are paid to do their job as opposed to working as opposed to people who volunteered to work for nonprofits, or things like that to have more genuine interest and like, humanistic. Kind of feels like sometimes I'm just waiting people like this as they are learning. Katie Clark 21:41 Sure. O Oscar Martinez 21:43 Even though the companies might be geared towards positive incentives and always feel genuine. Katie Clark 21:49 Sure. Well, then the last question really is there anything you would like to share that I didn't ask about? Well, and I think the purpose of this interview is too to better understand what happens when people graduate and does their vocation or their interests change when people maybe aren't as engaged? Or is it that it's that much harder? So how can we better prepare students for the realities they're going to face when life gets crazy and busy with all the things you just said, and just a little bit that I've heard you say, makes me really think that you are the person that we want to have in our communities, in our workplaces, and just the little that you do every day thinking through who people are and their relationships. I think that you are doing those things and so don't don't beat yourself up. For sure, but we're always happy to have you circle back. So anyhow, that concludes the interview. So I'm gonna hit pause in just a second. But thank you for the interview and your time. O Oscar Martinez 22:07 I mean, I really touched base on this a little bit but you know, like yeah, when I was when I was a high school junior or a high school sophomore but I was very good about finding ways to stay engaged. I wanted to teach those students about the negative impacts of drinking alcohol under the age and how that effected brain development, tutoring, prepping meals at open arms an organization working with people with chronic illnesses, I was very good about finding opportunities and making time for them and then college embedded in my academics again and I tried to do it once they graduated. Yet been playing back and you know, when this interview was brought out, it kind of made me think a little harder too. You know I do think about every day they think about what I want my legacy to be and what kind of impact I want to have. That's the whole reason everybody goes to me reasons why I did what I did. And it's been hard to do that now. Obviously, like the way that married, have kids, but mean maybe it's maybe it's me not putting enough effort to find out but but I just feel disengaged. I know it'd be good to go back to so of that so I don't know. Maybe you or Elaine or somebody else has opportunities that I'm unaware that he helped me jump into some of those things. But as it stands I haven't really. I've just been disengaged for the last five years. Thank you.
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Title: Transcript of Oral History Interview with Shelley Pacheo, 2022
Collection: Citizen Professionalism Project
Search Result: Oral History with Shelley Pacheo (2022) Mon, 4/4 3:43PM 15:16 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, civic engagement, student, classes, civic, experiences, professional, vocation, sociology, graduate, community, huge, talk, civic leadership, term, debate, lead, learn, citizen, working SPEAKERS Ka...
Show more Oral History with Shelley Pacheo (2022) Mon, 4/4 3:43PM 15:16 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, civic engagement, student, classes, civic, experiences, professional, vocation, sociology, graduate, community, huge, talk, civic leadership, term, debate, lead, learn, citizen, working SPEAKERS Katie Clark, Shelly Pacheco Katie Clark 00:03 Okay, so thank you for participating in this oral history project with Augsburg University and the Kettering Foundation, exploring the concept of the civic professional in higher ed. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of nursing and Executive Director of the Health Commons. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording? S Shelly Pacheco 00:24 Yeah, so um, I'm Shelley Pacheco, a third year here at Augsburg double majoring in political science and sociology. Yes. Katie Clark 00:36 Great. So before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed and having an interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public. S Shelly Pacheco 00:47 Yes, I do consent. Katie Clark 00:49 Great. So when will you graduate from Augsburg University? S Shelly Pacheco 00:54 Shelly Pacheco 00:54 I'll be graduating spring 2023. Yes. Katie Clark 01:01 Great. And can you tell me a little bit about your educational background? And what you're currently studying at Augsburg? S Shelly Pacheco 01:08 Yeah, so I'm doing a double major in political science and sociology, I have always been interested in social issues that are going on and how, like, it affects my community. So yeah, I'm really passionate about those things. And I just love giving back to my community. That's a really core my life and yeah, yes, I'm planning on hopefully getting a job into law enforcement. Right after I graduate. So yes. Katie Clark 01:38 How did you choose Augsburg out of all the other universities you could have chosen? S Shelly Pacheco 01:43 That's a really interesting question. It i It wasn't my first choice. To be honest. I came here because of the financial aid. I got a full ride. So I'm like, Yeah, I have to take. So that's pretty much what I mean after that, like the community so amazing here, though, people, the students are just very supportive, and it's very diverse. So yeah, I'm glad I came here. Katie Clark 02:08 Wonderful. So thinking back over your time at Augsburg, where the concepts of the citizen professional, civic engagement, civic leadership, or civic skills discussed in your classes or programs that you've been involved with? And if so, which ones if you do remember? S Shelly Pacheco 02:28 Oh, yeah. So I did Summer Bridge in 2019. Summer 2019. And that's when I got introduced to LEAD Fellows. Um, how I heard about him was through LaToya, I love LaToya. Yes, yeah. So she introduced me to the program, and suggested that I apply. So I applied and I ended up getting a job. Minnesota UDL (Urban Debate League), which is like the debate league here in Minnesota. So I did it for my first year. And then ever since that I've been doing LEAD Fellows. Right now I'm currently working at Trinity Church, which is like a homework help after school. So I basically like tutor, mentor, middle school through high school students. But in terms of my classes, oh, I don't know. I don't. I say only in my sociology. Yeah. And political classes. So I major classes were like, I hear about civic engagement. I really long like, those are like the classes were like the require, but like, I have to take them. Yeah. And it's just, yeah, like, it's mostly like I say, we only talk about it when there's like, something really big going on. But other than that, like, we just really don't talk about it. Katie Clark 03:57 So which experiences stand out as meaningful opportunities to learn, reflect and integrate lessons across coursework, and community engaged learning? So describe any of those experiences. S Shelly Pacheco 04:13 Can you elaborate on that question? Katie Clark 04:16 What is trying to ask you this? So some of the stuff that you learned when you were a LEAD fellow? Were any of those concepts and the concepts we just kind of talked about? And I think you kind of answered this question. Where are they really in your course work? Could they were they connected? S Shelly Pacheco 04:31 Oh, so for my sociology and law class. We did a project. So I don't know if you remember. Like the big elections that we just had for the mayor. What is the word I forgot the term as a strong versus weak mayor and then the public safety department and then the rent bill? Yeah, so based on those two bills, we did our debate in my class, where we like, invited the public to learn more about the debate and like what was going to be on the ballot. So that really like that is really shows how like, my sociology class was really intertwined with my LEAD fellow. So very engaging work. So yeah, it was really interesting. We did debate, had to write an essay and then we also did our newspapers, through the echo. Katie Clark 05:30 So would you say any of your time that you're like tutoring at Trinity? Does any of that those experiences really pertain? Or help you better understand any of your coursework? S Shelly Pacheco 05:45 Oh, well, I'm not really like an education major. I say, it's mostly, like, for me how I can better tell, like, bringing like cultural awareness in my classroom and like, be a better leader for those kids. So yeah. Katie Clark 06:04 In what ways, if any, did civic learning experiences at Augsburg prepare you to be ready for a professional role or civic leadership when you graduate? S Shelly Pacheco 06:15 Oh, I think for me, it's mostly LEAD fellows, that's like a been, it's been really helpful in my here, like my years here at Augsburg. We'll learn about social issues that are going, on how to be a better student, how to like, fight against the status quo, you know. I think like having those talks and like with my classmates, and like, talk about those topics, like it's really huge, and like, also the student orgs here at Augsburg I know, this year, they did a lot of focus groups, more like they will bring our students and alumni, talk about their experiences here at Augsburg, like what it means to be a minority here are experts. So I think like the student orgs and LEAD fellows, they're just like, really big on those topics. Katie Clark 07:24 So have you been able to use your civic learning or community engagement experiences to affect decision making or be an agent of change as a professional? If so, how? So learned any real skills from your community engagement time or LEAD fellow time that has allowed you to feel like you could create change when you see it needed? S Shelly Pacheco 07:54 Oh, yeah. I'm also in student government I'm the junior class president, and it's just been really interesting to see how there's so many student concerns going on. And there's just barely enough time to like, do something about these issues. All right, now we're working on parking. Parking is really bad for commuters. There's no really no spaces. But DPS continues on selling passes, even though there's not many slots. So yeah, that's just a really huge thing. And I think like, just learning about student concerns, and like, what I think about my personal opinions, you know, like, yeah, like parking is a huge thing here on campus. But there's also like other things that might be more important to other students. So I think like setting aside my personal opinion, and like the student concerns is really interesting for me. Yeah, it's just like, student government, like really helps you like, use your civic engagement skills. Katie Clark 09:04 So what connections if any, do you see among your professional identity, your vocation and civic leadership? It's kind of a dense question. So what connections between professional identity or where you are thinking you'll end up but I would say you probably have a professional identity now your vocation and then civic leadership. S Shelly Pacheco 09:29 Yeah, so like I said, Before, I have always, I just love giving back to my community and just Yeah, so like I said, Before, I have always, I just love giving back to my community and just anything so I, if I do become part of law enforcement, I think like civic engagement is gonna be a huge thing in my life where like, I have to decide what given back to my community or like, given to like the broader community here in the US. I'm a minority, so like, working for people that are not minority, it's just like gonna put me in that position where like, well, what did I do? Like, did I listen to my community or listen to like folks who are not like me. And I didn't just being in that position. Like, it just shows how like, my civic engagement skills are gonna be put into play, you know, like, I have two make those big decisions. And in terms of my vocation I don't know, I just feel like, like I know Augsburg is like really huge on that like, oh, like, you gotta find your vocation, like, what's your vocation? You know? So yeah, it's just, it's just a lot to navigate as a junior right now, like, you have to think about what you're going to do after you graduate? Like, is this something that it's going to give back to you communities is something that you're really passionate about? Or you're just doing it because of like, the financial barrier? Katie Clark 11:01 Do you see yourself as a civic or citizen professional? Even if you don't use that specific term? If you do, can you describe that or explain it to others? It was probably a term you use when you're a LEAD fellow, a civic, or citizen, professional, so kind of somebody who's engaged in the community around them. Do you see yourself as being an engaged citizen? S Shelly Pacheco 11:31 Oh, yeah, I mean, I say right now, I'm pretty involved here at Augsburg. I do a lot of things that I can reflect on. I don't think I am a like civic professional right now. And even like, after I graduate, like, just given back to the community, it's just a really huge thing in my life. Katie Clark 12:00 Great. Is there anything that you wish you would have learned at your time at Augsburg, but you haven't yet? S Shelly Pacheco 12:13 Well I just wish we have a done mentor mentee program. Like as a first gen, there's like a lot that I had to do for myself. Like there's a lot of places are like even like for my major, like, I'm not really used to like a how to navigate all of this like for myself, by myself. Like there's no like, really anyone holding me accountable for my grades. My class, like the classes I gotta take, like, what? What is there to do after you graduate? So I think if Ausburg had a program, like a mentee, mentor, mentee program like that will be really helpful for like, first gen students here at Augsburg. Katie Clark 12:56 Is there other opportunities or experiences that you wish you would have had to prepare you Is there other opportunities or experiences that you wish you would have had to prepare you for your future career while you're here? S Shelly Pacheco 13:03 I think just more hands on, like, I know, for my classes, like it's just mostly lecture. And there's not really like any activities where like, you have to engage with your students, your classmates, and they're just like, a lot go. Like relationship between like you and your classmates, I guess, like you go to class, you sit, there, listen to me 45 minutes for lecture. And after that you leave, like, no one else really talks to each other outside of class. And like, only when it's like required to like, do class or were like, oh, yeah, I have to tell to like the person right next to me. And now because I want to because it's required for me to do so I think just like having more hands on projects will be really helpful. Katie Clark 13:49 So when we talk about the concepts like civic agency, you know, citizen professional, those words, in particular, do those words resonate with you? Or do you can you think of other better terminology that would better kind of get at what we're trying to say? Especially, you know, with your generation. S Shelly Pacheco 14:12 Right. Think like civic engagement is pretty straightforward. Like it says on the term, the like, yeah, like, it's like about social issues, just bringing awareness to what's going on in the world. So yeah, I think it is good to use those terms. Katie Clark 14:33 Great. Well, that's all the questions that I have for you. So is there anything you would like to share with us that I didn't ask? S Shelly Pacheco 14:42 No, I think it's good that like Augsburg really cares about their students and like it's asking about their experiences with civic engagement and like, with everything that it's that has been going on, like, I'm glad that like, it doesn't go unnoticed. You know, like, there's actually like research been done here at Augsburg for students so that's good. Katie Clark 15:06 Well that concludes our interview so I just want to thank you for your time S Shelly Pacheco 15:10 S Shelly Pacheco 15:10 thank you
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Title: Transcript of Oral History Interview with Taylor Kuramoto, 2022
Collection: Citizen Professionalism Project
Search Result: Oral History with Taylor Kuramoto Wed, 5/18 4:56PM 22:44 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, students, thought, math department, bonner, people, teaching, experience, professional, civic, teacher, olaf, college, feel, civic leadership, adult, talk, education, community, questions SPEAKERS Taylo...
Show more Oral History with Taylor Kuramoto Wed, 5/18 4:56PM 22:44 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, students, thought, math department, bonner, people, teaching, experience, professional, civic, teacher, olaf, college, feel, civic leadership, adult, talk, education, community, questions SPEAKERS Taylor Kuramoto, Katie Clark Katie Clark 00:03 All right, so thank you so much for participating in this oral history project with Augsburg University and the Kettering Foundation, exploring the concept of the citizen professional in higher education. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of nursing and the Executive Director of Health commons. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording? T Taylor Kuramoto 00:23 My name is Taylor Kuramoto. I graduated from Augsburg in May of 2015. And I'm a high school math teacher currently. Katie Clark 00:35 Wonderful. So before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to be interviewed and having that interviewed stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public. T Taylor Kuramoto 00:46 Yes, I confirm. Katie Clark 00:50 So, okay, so you just told me when you graduated from Augsburg, could you tell me a little bit more about your educational background and what you study when you were at Augsburg? T Taylor Kuramoto 01:00 Yeah, I was actually a transfer student. So I had started my freshman year. I did my entire freshman year at St. Olaf and transferred to Augsburg as a sophomore. When I transferred schools, I basically like had to finish college in like the four years, one year at Augsburg and three or one year at St. Olaf and three at Augsburg. So I kind of was like forced into majoring in math, which in hindsight, or when I tell people that it's often like, oh, you you pick something like actually really hard to major in which I didn't really think about it was just I was a above average math student in high school and like, had taken calc my freshman year, because I thought I had to. And math was the only major where I could graduate on time. And I just, there was no way I could swing funds for a fifth year. So it was math. But it was actually a really great experience. It was the Math Department and the math professors are like one of my favorite parts of Augsburg. I did research on campus with oh, I forgot her name. No, but she's in the social work department. And I wish I remembered, but I did a statistic project of her and I had professors in the URGO office who helped me get an off campus summer research experience at the University of Tennessee at Knoxville. And it just being in the math department really opened up a lot of doors to like experiences that I don't think I ever would have had, like, I'd never thought I would spend the summer in Knoxville, Tennessee, studying like disease modeling and cows. And being able to do that then got me a paid trip to a conference in California, which I never thought I would be doing. But I was at the like national conference for medical and biological, like modeling and sciences. So that was just yeah, like, I never thought that was going to be my experience when I started college. And then I actually, so I graduated Augsburg in May of 2015. And I was abroad, teaching English in South Korea, as like a Fulbright English Teaching Assistant, and actually came back to Augsburg after that and some more time, which I'm sure we'll talk about later, and entered the Masters of Arts and Education program to get licensure to become a high school. Well, 6-12 math teacher. And once I got licensure, I put pause on the graduate program so that I could get teaching experience. And I was hired a few months after I finished the program to teach high school in St. Paul Public Schools at Central High School where I've taught for two years, and I teach her like a range of ages now. Katie Clark 04:03 Great. And so in some of these questions, you know, you'll probably talk a little bit about in multiple different ways. So are multiple different sections, just in case because you've mentioned some of this already. But yeah. So thinking about your time at Augsburg were the concepts of the citizen professional civic engagement, civic leadership or civic skills discussed in your classes or programs. And if so, which ones if you remember. T Taylor Kuramoto 04:30 Not really in my classes, I think just by the nature of being in the math department, but that's where I'm really grateful for being in Bonner leaders or Lead fellows now. It just added another dimension to my college experience, like I been in the math department was like, kind of like one section of my life at Augsburg and I played soccer at Augsburg as well, and that was kind of like another section of it and being in lead fellows, or Bonner leaders at the time we feel is now. Yeah, just added another dimension to being a college student that I could tell my peers who were either just in the math department or just on the soccer team didn't have. And like that experience of yeah, just, I'm really there that's in Lead fellows and Bonner is where like civic engagement was talked about, that I otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to in like my coursework or in the people that I engaged with. Katie Clark 05:42 Totally, where was your placement when you were a Bonner or lead fellow? T Taylor Kuramoto 05:47 Well, I was all over the place. I had been at a after school program in the Phillips neighborhood I had been at, one summer I was at a church. Also, in the Philips neighborhood, I had been an intern for the Sabo Center. I also did a public achievement with Dennis Donovan for one, that might have been a whole year actually. So I had been kind of all over to a lot of different places. And that's something that I try to, like convey to even my students that I teach now is like, you're going to learn so much more if you interact with people who have different experiences than you. And that was like a big takeaway for me from being Bonner leaders and Lead fellows. Katie Clark 06:39 So in what ways, if any, did civic learning experiences at Augsburg prepare you to be more ready for your professional role or civic leadership? T Taylor Kuramoto 06:54 I think that like teaching in and of itself is like, civic minded. I even thinking about like, yeah, just reflecting even on, my last answer maybe wasn't in the math department. But it does come up in a lot of education courses. Like it doesn't teaching doesn't exist in a vacuum and the ways that the role of a teaching and like the systems of education interact with policies and healthcare systems, and our transportation and systemic oppression, like it all just interacts with each other. And that wasn't something that I really thought about as an undergraduate. But coming back to Augsburg and being in education courses, and also just having an adults with like, some lived experiences was helpful. I guess it's what I'm trying to say. Katie Clark 08:05 Sure. So it prepared you to be in the world as it is maybe not as the world as it should be. T Taylor Kuramoto 08:12 Yeah, yeah. Sometimes my students will be like, how do you know XYZ things? And I'm like, I'm just old. Katie Clark 08:21 Okay. Okay. So have you been able to use your civic learning or community engagement experience to affect decision making or be an agent of change as a professional? T Taylor Kuramoto 08:38 Yeah, like I think being a teacher is all about community. Community in the classroom, but like also community just like as in the school and in the larger community that your kids come from. I tried to be at many events for students. It's my third in two weeks now going to some sort of performance. Tomorrow will be the choir concerts. But and I think to just community is like all about relationships. And it's, I think it is so hard, nearly impossible to be a good teacher if you don't have strong relationships with your students with the people who you work with. Yeah. Katie Clark 09:39 Great. And so this one's a little dense. So if I need to repeat it, okay. But, so, what connections if any, do you see amongst your professional identity, your vocation and civic leadership? So professional identity, vocation, very Augsburg, right? and civic leadership. Um and maybe you don't it doesn't need to be a leading question. T Taylor Kuramoto 10:20 Students will often ask me like, if I always knew that I wanted to be a teacher and like, I didn't think that I wanted to be a teacher. But being at Augsburg, we always talk about vocation. So it's hard for me to, like convey to students of like, no, I really think this is like my calling. Like, I think this is what I was, like, meant to do. My professional identity as a teacher. And like, I really do feel called to teaching and education and in being an Bonner leaders and or lead fellows, like, I felt called to service. Like, younger me often thought about, like, Oh, I think working for the government in some sort of, like, research capacity might be what I wanted to do. But older me was like, that doesn't feel like enough immediate change. And hence, I like, became a teacher. I think to, like, in turn thinking of civic leadership, like, I can't think of something more impactful than working with young people. It's always like a joke of like, teachers are shaping the minds of the future. But sometimes I do look at my students. And I'm like, wow, you are really brilliant. Like you will do like really great things. That in thinking too, about, like at St. Paul Public Schools, they're going to start doing graduation requirement for critical ethnic studies. And a big conversation that we've had at our school, this at our school is detracking accelerated math classes, because something that we've noticed is that our accelerated classes are predominantly white and are not accelerated classes are predominantly students of color. And what I've noticed, because I teach both accelerated and non accelerated courses is that my classes that are not accelerated, have students of all races and ethnic backgrounds and they are able to talk to anyone work with anyone. And something that we've talked about all the time is the ability to, like, work with anyone. And what I've noticed in a lot of my classes that are mostly white is that they only interact with students who are also white. And that when they are faced or presented with working with someone who is different than them, whether that's their race, or ethnicity, or even just somebody who has a different gender than them or someone who just socializes differently. My students in my accelerated classes really struggled to work with people who are different from them. And so I think about, I don't even think about I forced my students to sit in randomly assigned seats every quarter, and they complain about it. And I always tell them, like, when you leave school, like there are no there are very few structures of how to practice talking to people who are different than you. And like, when you are in the world, like everyone is different than everyone, like, you're never the same as the person that you're working with. And like we have to practice inside these structures of like, how do I work with talk with ask questions to people who are different than me? So I think, yeah, in thinking about civic leadership, I take some pride in helping students be confident in themselves because I know that like that will translate into their adult lives and their ability to communicate effectively with people just like everyone. Katie Clark 14:32 That's great. So do you think when you have like a challenge in your current position, or when you're teaching or you see something in the system? Do you think you're more better equipped to try to navigate that challenge because of some of your experiences at Augsburg or do you feel like, you seem like a very like resourceful and diligent and relational person? So do you think It's just part of who you are, or do you think Augsburg helped to develop some of those skills during your time at Augsburg? T Taylor Kuramoto 15:07 I think Augsburg helps. Um, when when I got to Augsburg I really didn't know like what I wanted to do or where I wanted to go or any of that and being at all, like when I left as a part of the reason I left St. Olaf was because I was at like a predominantly white institution that was did not feel like a safe space. For me as someone who's not white and did not feel like I was represented in any circles that I was in, socially, or even academically. And I had a lot of like, negative experiences with students at St. Olaf. And when I got to Augsburg I met so many people who were like me in the sense of, they were also like, figuring out their identity, how they move through the world, or they were really confident in who they are, who they are, what their story is. And it was really like, it felt like a safe space to be just me that I didn't feel like I could do that at my previous college. And I found a lot of, I also felt like, there were a lot of people at Augsburg, who, like me, were just like, hustling to get work done. Like, were really motivated. And I think I maybe just wasn't in the right circles at my first college, but there was a an aspect of like, community that I felt at Augsburg that I didn't feel like I had at my first one, whether that's the experience of going through kind of like, racial and ethnic understand identity, or, and or also just like, working hard, because like, this is this is our one shot and we like have to take it. Katie Clark 17:17 Great. So would you say or would you see yourself as a civic or citizen professional, even if you don't use that term? T Taylor Kuramoto 17:31 Taylor Kuramoto 17:31 I think so, I guess like civic or citizen professional? Would that mean like? Katie Clark 17:41 So probably you probably talked about when you're a Bonner. So basically, like somebody who's very, like, co creative and engaged in the community around them and can kind of de emphasize that expert role. T Taylor Kuramoto 17:54 Yeah. All the time, kids will be like, is this the answer? And I'm like, You tell me because like, you have all the knowledge as well. Kids will often ask students will often ask things like, Ah, this, you know, XYZ, ABC thing isn't fair. And I'm like, It's not fair. What can you do about it? Like, I am, I am one person. Yes, I am an adult. And I hold this assumed authority as your educator, but like, your voice, and your power is probably even stronger and more than mine. So like, what can you do about it? What could you say about it? Who could you organize? Yeah, and I mean, that's something that I tried to do in classrooms and thinking just about like, oftentimes, teachers view themselves as the people who hold all the knowledge and all the power. And that is like the opposite of what I try to do. I've really tried to focus on getting students to build skills to answer their own questions and solve their own problems. So that is their teacher and in some art, am in some ways, obsolete, that you don't really need me to answer your questions, because you know how to answer your own question. Katie Clark 19:11 Yeah, well, I think one thing that I'm kind of finding throughout these interviews is that sometimes the language of civic professional or citizen professional, they're kind of used interchangeably, doesn't really resonate with students at times. So I just wonder if, if the word is meaningful to you at all? Or if there's a better word or if it seems like it's a good description, or a good fit, as long as we kind of describe what it is? T Taylor Kuramoto 19:45 Yeah, I guess like when I hear the phrase, civic, professional or citizen and professional, it makes me think of like someone whose role is in service of others, and I don't know if that's really a correct or approiate way to think of it. Yeah, Katie Clark 20:03 that's a really good way of saying it. Yeah. I don't know that that's exactly what we're trying to get at. Right. Thank you for that. So two more questions. And this one is asking you more. Is there anything that you wish you learned at your time at Augsburg that you didn't? Is there other opportunities or experience you wish that you had to prepare you for your future career, or just being in the world as it is? T Taylor Kuramoto 20:35 I can't think of anything, either. All of the things that I've the major things that come to my mind when I think about things I've struggled with after leaving Augsburg are like detailed things about being an adult, like which health insurance plan I have to choose and like, what's a deductible, like all of these things that you learn at a certain age? And like, yeah, they matter. But in the long run, like you have health insurance, or like, filing my taxes is always a pain. But I've I've, in all of my experiences at Augsburg, I feel I left feeling well, at the time, I didn't leave feeling very prepared. When I look back on all the experiences I had, I'm really grateful for everything that I did while I was at Augsburg because when I talked to other people, their experiences in college were pretty singular, like either they were just doing their major, or they were like, some of my some people that I know from college, maybe like their highlight of college was played a sport, or, and their academic work was not as interesting to them, or they didn't have an experience like Bonner or Sabo scholars or, you know, some other activity to to balance their experience. I left as an adult looking back, I feel really grateful that I had all of these different dimensions to to what I did in college. Katie Clark 22:15 That's beautiful. So the last question is, is there anything you wish that I would have would that you'd like to share that I didn't ask about? So. T Taylor Kuramoto 22:31 I can't think of anything. Katie Clark 22:34 Great. So that concludes our interview. So thank you for your time today.
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Title: The Challenge of the City to Augsburg, 1966 (transcript)
Collection: Augsburg Centennial Oral Histories
Search Result: Transcript of “The Challenge of the City to Augsburg College,” a speech by Dr. Joel S. Torstenson delivered on 1966 April 13 Oscar Anderson 0:00 [recording cuts in mid-sentence] a major concern in his life. Dr. Joel Torstenson. Dr. Torstenson is the Chairman of the Department of Sociology ...
Show more Transcript of “The Challenge of the City to Augsburg College,” a speech by Dr. Joel S. Torstenson delivered on 1966 April 13 Oscar Anderson 0:00 [recording cuts in mid-sentence] a major concern in his life. Dr. Joel Torstenson. Dr. Torstenson is the Chairman of the Department of Sociology and graduate of Augsburg. He has his Ph.D. from the University of Minnesota. He is presently on leave from the college in order that he might go further into this whole matter of the place of the liberal arts college in the emerging urban culture. And I've asked him to give a brief address to this group today, on this subject, "The Challenge of the City to Augsburg College." Dr. Joel Torstenson. Joel Torstenson 0:39 I have a feeling that the pressure of time really makes it critical for me to condense my remarks in some very few brief observations. And I feel entirely justified in this, since so many of the things that I have intended to say have already been expressed by people far better qualified to express them than myself. I was very gratified with a with the stance of Dr. Blegen's presentation, the sense of linkages between the past and the present and with a with a deep commitment to the future. It seems to me, this is one of the most urgent needs of our time, is that instead of lamenting the perils of our time, somehow, with a sense of optimism that is not naive, face the future with hope and vigor and creativity, and, and confidence. Joel Torstenson 1:44 Now, I just want to say make a few comments about the way it looks to me concerning the challenges of the city to Augsburg College. It seems to me that if even if the pioneers who planned and promoted the transfer of this college from a small village in Wisconsin, to its present location in the very center of our great city, had had the pre-vision of pre-vision of the social reality of 1966, they could hardly have chosen a more appropriate and strategic place to locate the beginnings of this institution in this area. Joel Torstenson 2:30 If you look at the map of the Twin City Metropolitan Area--as it is now defined by the transit of Metropolitan Planning commissioners, as Dr. Naftalin, had recently alluded to--you will find that Augsburg College, together with the University of Minnesota and the other institutions that now form the University Development Corporation, you'll find that we are located at the very center of this great emerging metropolis. Some of us have been lamenting the high cost of land, you know, around here, when it comes to getting the land and making ready for new facilities. And I share that sense of frustration about the rather exorbitant price. Yet, it may well be, though, I'm not a complete disciple of those who think that the market really determines justice, you know, [inaudible] has something to say about the market, being the automatic regulator of justice and human society didn't exactly confirm it. But it may well be that the high price of land is really a pretty cheap price. Because it seems to me we have chosen a very strategic place to carry on liberal education in the modern world. It is as if we have a ringside seat at the emerging and emerging metropolis. Joel Torstenson 3:10 For those who think that we ought to have you know, fanned out into suburbia back in 1946, when this was a condition, an option, I think we have, and there were reasons for and against this kind of a move. It seems to me that in retrospect, I think we can agree that it was a fortunate thing, that those who believe we ought to stay right here, that their judgment prevailed. Now, I suppose everybody won't agree with that. But it seems to me in the very nature of the case, our location is strategic. Joel Torstenson 4:40 Now. I think it is our cognizance of this fact that has led to the theme of this symposium, "The Challenge of the City." Joel Torstenson 4:54 Now, this is is not a unique event in our country, and one of the things that has impressed me about the theme we have selected, and the motif of our first centennial celebration is that it is a very similar to the kinds of themes that are reproduced in other centers of higher learning at this very moment. When I was on the campus of the of MIT, I learned that at this very moment, there is an Intercollegiate Conference on the Urban Challenge. So while we're talking about this challenge of the city, right now, at MIT campus, students from the universities and colleges in New England are assembled to talk about the urban challenge. The president of the MIT, in lending his support to this venture, alluded to the fact that the challenge of our time is defined-leadership, for our time, enlightened leadership to direct and utilize our technique, technical power, and prowess, to humanize, to beautify, and to make economically viable, our great urban centers, I would like to have added one more dimension to that make politically viable, our urban centers. Joel Torstenson 6:22 Now, there are many other ways in which the kinds of things we're doing are being replicated throughout the country, and the development of centers for urban studies throughout the country is one of these, I am not going to say any more about this, because our time is really, really up. Joel Torstenson 6:42 But I would just like to say, now why is this such a strategic location? And what is the challenge before us? It seems to me that the first instance we are strategically located to do a creative job in building an image of the city that is appropriate and adequate for the time in which we live. Our address this morning, I think, has helped to convince us, more than perhaps we have been convinced already, that we all have a strong legacy of agrarian fundamentalism running through our veins, or our psyche, or our nervous system, or where just where it is, you know, where these centers are is something of a problem. But in any case, we are children of an agrarian fundamentalism living in an urban age. And I think to examine this historically is a source for emancipation. History is always potentially a source for entrapment as well as a source for enlightenment and freedom. And I think this self-examination of our historical past gives us a sense of freedom from the traps of history. I'm sure that there is a lot of work yet to do to clearing out our mental fabric of some of the negative dimensions of our agrarian legacy. Joel Torstenson 8:20 Now don't tell all my farmer friends that I said this, they are still deeply impressed by the agrarian fundamentalism some. Now, I think once we have come to terms with an adequate image of the city, then we immediately began to see the resources of the community that are available to us, we are open to them. And I think we are living, literally in a in a laboratory for liberal learning, which is really unsurpassed in the upper Midwest. And we share this with the University of Minnesota and similar institutions in this part of the country. And when I mentioned the University of Minnesota, it is it is an interesting thing, that that the pioneers who decided to make the move here made two judgments, which I think have proven to be sound. Joel Torstenson 9:20 One is that that Minneapolis was going to be a big city, and a great city, and we ought to be located in that. And it was also terribly important for the college to be closely related to the University of Minnesota. These two judgments, I think, have proven entirely sound. And when I make reference to the University of Minnesota, it just inescapable that we were just almost were inspired by the resources that are available to us here. The movement of the library across the river is a is a great convenience [audience laughs] which will, I think will have a great deal to contribute to the life of this college, we kind of get it for free, and we should never grumble about our taxes, [audience laughs] we should send a little extra contribution. Joel Torstenson 10:19 And then the fine arts, the symphony and the and now we're going to have the museum I believe the fine arts building will be developing on this site. I don't know all the developments, but it's just a great thing to be so closely related to the university, both geographically and in the other ways which have been emerging through our historical relationships. Joel Torstenson 10:51 Now, the political structure, I cannot refrain from identifying the political life of this metropolis as a great resource for liberal learning. I simply do not share the anti-government mentality that has somehow accompanied the agrarian fundamentalist legacy. It takes about four minutes to get down to the courthouse. And, you know, students can take a trip down the courthouse and visit, you know--mayor's don't have anything else do but do entertain students who want to interview them. [audience laughs] Joel Torstenson 11:29 But to, to get so close to the centers of government. For educational institutions, our time is terribly important. I'm sure that we haven't exploited fully the potential resources here, our proximity to the state capitol, you know, the freeway is going to get us within 5-10 minutes from that place if the freeways don't develop too much phacosclerosis Joel Torstenson 11:56 The whole, the whole pattern of government, as a part, an indigenous part of modern metropolitan life, is a tremendous resource for our students and for the faculty. And we are, of course, close to some of the pioneering work that is going on in the urban ministries of our churches. And during the last three weeks, I've stopped, as a rule, in every city at some of the leading universities and two or three pioneering ventures of the church in the inner city, and, and as well as at planning offices and governmental offices. And it's an inspiration to know that religious leadership is beginning to take a new look at the city. And they are part of the pioneering team and the front, the frontier of urban life in our time. Now, welfare institutions, other educational institutions, health institutions, and so on are part of the resource at our at our beck and call. Joel Torstenson 13:08 Now, having said something about the community as a laboratory for living, for learning, I want to say something about the community as an occasion for creative involvement. And I can just name it really, but I think that there is no doubt that abstractions are important, but to speculate only in terms of abstractions is inadequate in the learning process, creative involvement in community life is certainly one of the most important challenges of the city for Augsburg College. And I am glad that some of our students at least have become more deeply involved in political life in the city of Minneapolis and this is I suppose, a nonpartisan observation. Joel Torstenson 14:06 They are becoming deeply involved in in this experimental religious efforts in some of the special problems of Urban Ministry. They are involved in research, I suppose, every year that I read, probably 100 research papers, in which the primary sources are taken from observations, field trips, and interviews with representatives of the agencies and political groups and, and all the rest that that are part of our community life. And then in the last point, I do want to make a comment that it seems to me a, a an ideal setting for a creative encounter with the value issues of our time. Joel Torstenson 14:54 I have been reading literature of city planners a good deal in the last few years, particularly the last year, and certainly one of the most critical issues that they are grappling with is what are the values that are to guide us in the renewal of life in the modern metropolis. And it is unthinkable to me, that students and faculty at an academic institution where the legacies of liberal education that reached back to Jerusalem and Athens and Rome, a few other great cities of our past, that students in this kind of situation should be unconcerned about the value issues of creating a life that is viable, both in terms of our best judgments of human, what is a humane society, as well as in terms of our judgments as to what is a viable, metropolitan life in the future. Joel Torstenson 15:57 I can't help but say a word about beauty. We had a professor in English when I was an undergraduate student here who talked about three crucial values, truth, beauty, and goodness. And I think they're all important. I don't think we have a debate about that. But I have become increasingly interested in the issue of beauty. It seems to me ironic, that we should have a renaissance in the interest of art and we we traveled through miles and miles of monstrous ugliness to see beautiful paintings, you know. Yet somehow we must be part of a community that is learning how to fashion the forms of urban life, so that it not only has justice and truth and, and all the other values building, but also a sense of beauty. Joel Torstenson 16:53 And to make--this is not the city of beautiful movement, but it's a part of the value orientation that seems to me a liberal arts college must be concerned about. Well, those are some of the reflections that I feel prompted to make concerning the challenges of the city to our college. [audience applauds] Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Title: Street Voices of Change: Transcript of Oral History Interview with Cecil Scott, 2021
Collection: Augsburg Central Health Commons Oral History Project
Search Result: Cecil 2021 Fri, 7/30 11:01AM 42:04 SUMMARY KEYWORDS situation, people, person, pandemic, streets, feet, experiences, life, day, police, homeless, social distancing, law enforcement, augsburg, homelessness, faith, worst, called, head, place SPEAKERS Cecil Scott, Kathleen Clark Kathleen...
Show more Cecil 2021 Fri, 7/30 11:01AM 42:04 SUMMARY KEYWORDS situation, people, person, pandemic, streets, feet, experiences, life, day, police, homeless, social distancing, law enforcement, augsburg, homelessness, faith, worst, called, head, place SPEAKERS Cecil Scott, Kathleen Clark Kathleen Clark 00:02 Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for street voices of change and Augsburg Central Health Commons. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of Nursing at Augsburg. Can you introduce yourself for the recording? C Cecil Scott 00:17 My name is Cecil Scott. Kathleen Clark 00:19 Great. And before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed and have the interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public. C Cecil Scott 00:30 Yeah. Kathleen Clark 00:31 Cecil 2021 Page 1 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Great. Thank you. So can you tell me where you grew up and who you called family? C Cecil Scott 00:38 I grew up in North Minneapolis. To the question of who I call family, I mean, I call my family, family. My grandmother. She had 11 kids here. She had nine kids here two over in Texas who they were taken from her and that's one of the reasons why she moved here to Minnesota. So I have a pretty big family. Scotts, Neils, Joneses, Ingrams pretty pretty big family here in Minneapolis. Kathleen Clark 01:28 Great Well, can you tell me how you got involved with Street Voices of Change? C Cecil Scott 01:33 I got involved with Street Voices of Change in their first meeting. I was homeless. And someone told me, "Hey they're giving these bus tokens and they're giving away some some breakfast over at Central Lutheran Church. So let's go over there and check it out, see what it's about." And upon attending that initial group, and when I found out what it was about and what was getting started, I wanted to be a part of it and I just kept coming back after that. Kathleen Clark 02:17 So what was life like for you before the pandemic and what is different for you because of it? C Cecil Scott 02:26 Well, life before the pandemic was definitely easier due to access of different things but nothing has really changed. I've always been a person, I practice social distancing before social distancing was a thing. I'm not a person who really likes to touch other people or be touched by other people. So social distancing was something that was like cool with me I'm not a germaphobe or anything like that. But there was something that I was easily able to adapt to. The transportation in the situation it seemed like people were going to the left, they were going a little bit crazy. Transportation, riding riding the city bus with several different people who were experiencing the pandemic with me, some of them just weren't able to, to maintain it and keep their composure so there was a lot of different Cecil 2021 Page 2 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai things that were happening on the city buses. Like fighting, people getting upset with people for not having a mask on sitting, too close to them, and different things like that. So that in particular made me go out and reget my driver's license and get me a vehicle just so I wouldn't be dealing with the aggression from other people. As far as my job, my job never stopped. I've been working continuously through the pandemic. I work for a company that is an essential company. We we do metal plating, and we do metal plating for specific government agencies or entities that allowed us to stay open for the pandemic because they needed their equipment that we were working on. So no, my employment didn't stop. Then we got in to this, the George Floyd thing. And a lot of different businesses were burned down. So with the pandemic, and that going on, it was hard to access a lot of things like grocery stores and buying clothes and different things like that. I'm trying to think if there's any other ways a pandemic has affected me. Because like I said, I'm pretty much a homebody anyway. So, quaranting myself wasn't no real big issue, you know. I gotta a little cat. She keeps me company. So I wasn't all the way alone. Plus I'm computer savvy so I can communicate with people via internet or Facebook or whatnot. So I think that's pretty much covers my pandemic stuff. Kathleen Clark 06:06 So can you tell me a little bit about your experiences? Being either houseless, homeless are marginally housed in the past? C Cecil Scott 06:16 What type of experiences would you like to hear? So yes, there's quite a bit of them. When I first started out homeless, you know, it was somewhat of a choice. Me and my, my girlfriend were breaking up. And I could either try to stay in that situation, which wouldn't probably been healthy for me. Or I could go to the shelter, and just start trying to build anew, which is what I did, and that turned out to be the best solution. And during that time, in the beginning of that time, I was robbed. I believe I was stung with stun gun, I'm not exactly sure what they actually hit me with to, to render me unconscious. But I got robbed for my little homeless possessions. And they really scarred my face really bad. And blood, a lot of people thought that I wouldn't heal correctly. I did. And thank God, I did heal God, God had his hand in that situation as well. So that started making me change my drive of what I wanted to do, I had already had a job. I was already working 40 hours a week. So it just, it just made me go harder. I was working for a temp agency. And any place they asked me to go, I went, regardless of how far was a how early in the morning, I had to get up. In some cases, I had to get up and catch a bus to a train and then ride a bike. But whatever it was, whatever the requirement was, I did that. And during one of these situations, I was going to a place called the Opportunity Center to eat Cecil 2021 Page 3 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai breakfast before I got on my first bus and I was riding down Chicago avenue to go to their seven o'clock meal. And on Chicago and Franklin, I witnessed a man being murdered. Another man walked up behind him with his hoodie tied around his face and a gun in his sleeve and shot him in the back of the head just 30 feet in front of me. That situation even though I've seen death before that situation, really, really awakened me. Because I was trapped in the streets. And I felt by you know, the streets almost killed me once with the robbery. And now I'm witnessing a man getting shot in the back of his head. And so it kind of told me that if I did not work harder or try harder to change my situation, the streets were going to kill me. So I just went into overdrive and I started showing up at work two hours earlier and leaving two hours later, which to my to to the owner of the business I worked for. He just was liked "where did you get this work ethic from?" I got it from the streets. He did not kind of understand it but, the streets motivated me to get out of the streets and because I didn't I didn't want to die like that, you know? That's the amount of motivation, every senses is stuck, just keep the streets from getting me. That was the second part of that question, I think only. Kathleen Clark 10:12 yeah, just be your experiences of being homeless or marginally housed or any of that, which you've answered with some great stories, and also, why you decided to try to make some changes, which I very much applaud. So, given all that you've been through, and given the situation in the last 18 months, what gives you hope and strength? C Cecil Scott 10:47 Well I'm gonna have to say, my faith in God. In the beginning, it was a little difficult to activate my faith and activating my faith, what I mean is, you have to believe what you're actually praying for, and what you're expecting God to give to you. And not all the time that is easy, you know, that started out for me being a very difficult thing to do, to trust that it was going to happen, because so many times prayers hadn't worked. And I've just realized that if I believe God is gonna fulfill these things for me, then it's gonna happen. And I started doing that, and it's happened over and over, and over and over, and it's happened so many times that I've become reliant on that. So when a situation comes up now, where I know that I can't do it on my own, I know that it's gonna be a struggle, and I'm gonna need help. My first go to is God, because it's been working, it's been working the whole time, you know, helping me change my situation. And so that's, that's where I go, I goes straight to God, "this is a lot for me, this I can't handle this by myself." And I trust that, that is going to be all that I need to do, to give whatever I'm trying to accomplish done. And thus far, that is what has happened. So that is what I'm doing. I'm continuing to trust Cecil 2021 Page 4 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai God, and trust that things that I need will be placed in my life and the pathway will be clear. It's been that way. And then just recently, I had an emergency surgery. And I had to take a leave of absence from my employment. And during that time, all of these different fundings, unemployment, and HMLA, all of these different places that were supposed to be lending, not lending me some money, but giving me some money to support myself during this time. Those places were not coming through. So I finally spent the last of my last paycheck. And I just was out there with nothing. And I was running out of gas and didn't know how I was going to pay my car insurance and different things like that. And I just said, You know what, I've been trusting God, all of this time. I'm gonna trust God now. And I drove to a meeting here on E, I was driving on empty when I got here, and did not expect to get any help from here, but I wanted to attend this meeting. So came in and started talking in attending in the group. And then afterwards, people wanted to talk to me and find out how I was doing when I told him and some people's like, "Oh, well, you know what, we can help you with this." And then I got, I got gas money, and I got my insurance paid and all of these different things that I did not expect to come out of that particular meeting happening. And they just further showed me that I need to trust God in all of these situations, and I'm going to be alright, and I have been, and that's where my head is focused at that. I'm just keep doing that. I realize also that karma is something that exists too. I don't think that if I was doing the wrong thing. I don't think that all of these good things that have happened to me, would have happened to me. I don't think that people extending their hands out to help me would have been available. I think I would have been in a whole different time frame for God to work. So, me doing good is, is bringing me good things and good people into my life. And when I needed help it was there. So, it's a message to anybody that I like to deliver is that just do good and, and have faith have pure faith and it'll be alright things, things will fall in place. God will make sure that you are right to take care of you. Kathleen Clark 15:41 Well, in the summer of 2020, and with the murder of George Floyd, Minneapolis became the epicenter of this movement to, you know, call out and change the situation around racism in our country. Can you describe your experiences living in Minneapolis during that time? C Cecil Scott 16:02 During that time? Yeah, during that time, also, the time is still in existence right now, actually, in my life, and it's always been that time. The George Floyd situation brung, a little bit more fear. To me personally, because I'm a black man who's had several encounters with law enforcement that have not been good situations, I've been assaulted Cecil 2021 Page 5 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai by police officers, I've been at gunpoint, I've had guns to my head, I've been hit with different weapons that police use, handcuffs, and this is a lot of treatment that is not not good. It's something that I would be wanting to experience again, I doubt anybody would. But with this situation, the fears heightened because I feel like that the police are going to want to have some type of retaliation. And they're not just gonna, they're not going to retaliate against anybody, they're going to retaliate against people who look like me. I don't look like a prep student, I don't look like a person who is, is going to a clerical job every day, I look more like a street person or urban person. And to some people, I may even look like a gang member. So I'm just like in that big target pool. So even when I'm pumping my gas, and I see a police car driving by is a certain amount of fears, a certain amount of energy that goes through my body, to not only just alert me, but just to get me aware of where I'm at, in what's going on around me. I don't know how many other people feel this, this feeling that I'm speaking up when they encounter law enforcement, I don't believe that it's fair that I have to go through this. I don't go through this when I when I meet other people. So is this not a race thing? It doesn't, it doesn't matter if it's a white person or black person, Asian or whatever ethnic origin they may be, it's the whole the whole environment of policing. When I see a black and white police car, or when I see a police car, in general, sheriff's car, whatever, I know that there's a person in there that could potentially cause me harm or even kill me and then possibly get away with it. And I have no justice. I'm just dead. And that feeling that I get I describe it as fear because I don't know what other other way to express it. I mean, I'm not walking around, ready to stick my head in a hole because I'm afraid. But there is this feeling that this cautionary thing when law enforcement is around that I have and it's only because of situations like this. It's only because of that. You know, it's not fair to me. I shouldn't have that. That's like I'm being bullied at school, knowing that I have to go to school and and see this person every day. And then when I encountered them, I get this feeling that something could happen. You know? And that's not fair that that's, that's completely not fair. I'm hoping that you all understanding what I'm talking about, and can get a clear picture of it. But that, right there is. That is this definitely something that the George Floyd situation has created. I'm really, I'm really happy with the results and the George Floyd situation. The man had a very hard death. And it was one of the worst ones that I ever seen. You know, I've never seen anybody lose their life over several minutes of suffering. I've always seen like, the guy on Chicago and Lake at night, Chicago, Chicago, and Franklin who was shot in his head, and they're dead instantly. I've never watched somebody die, slowly, drowning or, or being choked to death. I've never seen anything like that. And so it really impacted me. It actually made me angry that that could happen, and these people could get away with it. So seeing that, they decided to charge them. And one of them is currently doing time for his crimes. Which I feel the sentence was not fair is it is some success, it is a sentence because a lot of officers have done worse and not paid the penalty at all. But I see young men from my urban environment, that do crimes that are similar murder in Cecil 2021 Page 6 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai general, and they give 45 years. And then we got this person who was a authority figure. He's law enforcement, and he's been doing this job for 20, 30 years. And this this person is, is basically given a slap on the wrist. You give this little 20 year old kid who don't know too much 45 years for the same thing. It just doesn't, it just doesn't seem fair in that aspect. But I am glad that some justice came out of that situation. I think that it was downplayed by monetary sympathy. What I mean by monetary sympathy is they went ahead and they gave $27 million to George Floyd's family kind of like to say, "Well, here you got all of this money now. Okay, so let's forget about the fact that this officer is on trial for killing your son and whatever since he gets out of it don't make a build a big deal out of it, just accept it and go with the flow." I don't think that that was fair either. I just monetary sympathy and that's that's how I'm gonna put that but. This George Floyd situation has definitely changed my life. And it's still changing. And we were going to see what happens. After this, I mean, it to me this. This is so alive and so real. I may see too much in the things but I think on the day that that there, Derek Chauvin was convicted. It seemed like police all across this country just went on a killing spree towards African Americans. And we just had so many deaths, young girls dying at the hands of police officers. And we had a young kid over here in Brooklyn Center who was killed by a police officer. And to me it doesn't seem that that was accidental. She said "taser taser," or whatever. But she was pulling her gun and shooting this man with her gun and anybody who's had these two items in their hands knows, they're completely different feel. And it just is just a bunch of BS to me. It's like this, this is our revenge. You got one of us. So now we get one of you. You know? Actually, it's not one of us, hundreds and 1000s. Did I did I answer your questions? Kathleen Clark 25:08 You're so articulate and just, yes, you answered the question. Thank you so much. So, you know, some of these recordings might be used for people that come to Street Voices to hear more from individuals on their experiences that as of late, or maybe people 30 years from now we're going to reflect back. So is there anything from your about your experiences, or from other people's experiences, who may have been experiencing homelessness, houselessness, or marginally marginally being marginally housed during this time period that you would want to make sure that people remembered or reflected upon 30 years from now? C Cecil Scott 25:59 Well, this kind of goes back to what I was saying about, about faith, and just not giving up, you know? 30 years from now, this is gonna be useful information, just= as well as it is today, you know, when you're in a homeless situation, you have to believe in yourself, and you have to have faith, that things are gonna get better, in order for you to make them Cecil 2021 Page 7 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai better. You know, when I first became homeless, I did not see a future. I didn't see a future at all. And then once I got established with a good employer, I could start seeing the future because I started having money. It was like, first I was living paycheck to paycheck, you know, when I was trying to save money to get into a place. And eventually, over my time and working, I started having extra money to spend on different things, and being able to plan to do different things like maybe I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go to my favorite restaurant this week, things that I wasn't able to do. Or maybe I'm gonna buy this pair of shoes. Or, you know, maybe, you know that, well, now, now that I'm in my place, different things now, it's like, "oh, maybe I can buy me some new tires for my truck, or, you know, maybe I buy a new couch or something like that." But before, I could not see any of that stuff. I couldn't see it and kind of blinders, you knows, like, starting to feel like the situation was was hopeless, you know, this endless pit of nothing. And once I started seeing the future, or seeing that I could plan and I could, I could escape all of this stuff, all I had to do was not give up on myself, all I had to do is believe myself to do it. You know, even when other people say, "Oh, you're not gonna be able to do that," you know, I was actually homeless with my brother and my son. And both of them, they chose to give up and not go the route that I went, I mean, I even had us all a job at the same place. And I'm the only one showing up to the job. Neither one of them showed up. But needless to say, they're both still kinda in the same sort of situation. You know, my son, he's living with his girlfriend. My brother, I honestly don't know, I just know my brothers in the street life, he's trapped in there. And he doesn't seem to want to change that. So any advice that I could give to anybody would be keep your faith, don't give up on yourself. And don't accept no, you're gonna hear no, a lot. And no's the worst that they can say to you. No is not gonna bind you tape you up in a corner or something like that. No is the worst that they can say. And don't always just accept no, you know. Especially if it's something that that you qualify for. And they say that you qualify for it. You got it, you got to drive in, you got to get the person up from them. You got to keep going until you get the results that you want. And that's gonna be coming from your faith and your strength and believing in you. Certainly got to go as far as you take it. Kathleen Clark 29:52 So is there, so if you could ask people to work on something or get involved in an issue? What would it be? Is there something that people hearing this could help with? C Cecil Scott 30:11 Well, I'm gonna say there is something that people listening to this could do to help. Everybody comes from a different environment, and everybody has different teachers, in Cecil 2021 Page 8 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai the beginning of our life. So our learning processes are different. And some of us are experiencing different things out of the same situation. And so a person who has positive energy and positive intellect to, to add to this situation should do that should try to help the next person regardless of their capacity. I mean, you know, you can, you can be a homeless person and help another homeless person. So don't don't ever feel like that you can't, you might have information to give to another person that will help them along in their, in their life. And so, I would just say, that people of all, of all lifestyles and all social networks and people all should pay attention to this situation of homelessness, because it takes all of us to change it, you know. There's doors that a rich person can open that a person who has poor accommodations may not be able to open. But that person can open it for that person with poor accommodations, you know what I mean? So well, it's knowledge too, you know, a lot of our situation goes to education, if a person doesn't have the knowledge to diplomat, and sort through these different situations and be diplomatic, when they're talking to people, they're not going to be as successful, you know. So the more knowledge that a person has to help themself, they're going to do better. So people have all of these different circumstances, if they pull together and put all their energy and knowledge into it, you know, we should be able to, we should be able to help everybody. Everybody should be able to move forward. I don't see being in any other way. So the way that life in society is always gone. One person can't do it alone. Kathleen Clark 33:16 That's so beautiful. C Cecil Scott 33:19 Thank you. Kathleen Clark 33:20 I agree. It's almost like you're talking about her inner, the inner weaving dependence we all have on one another, right? We can't survive without each other. C Cecil Scott 33:30 Yeah, basically, basically, like, like I said, you know, our first our first teachers, our parents, so all of us are gonna have different views and perspectives on life and learning. You know, like, growing up, you know, in my community, there was this thing against law enforcement, where, even if we weren't doing anything wrong, we see a police car and Cecil 2021 Page 9 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai we're running, you know. And we was out there playing tag or something like that. And in a different environment, it may not be the same. They might see the police car and run over to the police car, you know, wanting to shake their hands and talk to them and stuff like that. But it's just all of these communities coming together. For the purpose of defeating one thing and right now what we're talking about is is to homelessness and racial equality. You know, if we are pulled together, I believe it can be defeated. I did, my little research on on racism, and I found out there racism. It only existed for a few 1000 years. It came in the end of the 14 the 1400 century. What it was prior to that, it was rich and poor. So the rich and poor were fighting against each other. And the poor did not care what race and Creed's you were we were just trying to defeat rich you know and the rich discovered that this was happening and so they kind of put in a few different things to detour people. One was religion, one was race and there's probably a few other things and now even in this day and age we got different things that divide us like drugs, you know. So I honestly just think the race card is just a joke it's a game it's a distraction. It's something put in place to keep us from achieving our ultimate goals and they our ultimate main goals is to evolve you know. It's like a certain section of people don't want everybody in time they want us behind time. Just hoping I'm making sense to your because sometimes I tend to think a little bit deep on on the higher level would obtain so much knowledge about stuff. Nobody knows stuff. Kathleen Clark 36:30 Well, just a few more questions and more these ones kind of geared more towards health what would you say you need to be healthy? C Cecil Scott 36:43 Well, seeing that I just had surgery recently, I think I'm doing and I thought I was doing well before the surgery too. I can only say you know, my personal situation, I would have to say in order for me to be healthier than I am I would have to have like a dietary and type my own personal diethiatarian you know, to keep me on track because I live right by a grocery store and it actually is a butcher. But it's a butcher shop but it has a grocery store and it is well called Solo and every time I go in there they just got these amazing prices on steaks. So I'm just like constantly buying steak steak steak steak and my doctor's like, "Cut that out, you can't just eat steak every day all day!" And I'm like you sure, I can't? I would have to have personal dietician, you know. As far as that part of my health and I think I do enough exercise and outdoors. Somewhat I've been going fishing every weekend I do this every summer go fishing every weekend, until snow and ice come. Yeah, I don't know how much more I could say on health care. I feel like I'm a healthy person. Cecil 2021 Page 10 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Kathleen Clark 38:28 That's good and I know that you've been in a few times as far as like you know getting socks and things but is there any other things that would be helpful for us to have or do as nurses in this drop in center? C Cecil Scott 38:44 Well I personally I have bad feet in my family. And me I don't have an arch in my foot. And so a lot of times I have problems with my back or maybe my feet are hurting standing too long or something like that. For to have a program here dealing with the feet, wheather it be like they got a program called Sole Care. I really just adore those when they they've helped me take care of my feet so many different times and have helped me feel comfortable about my feet and I think if my feet are healthy, I'm healthy, you know. I can I can go to work and do my job and different things like that. So I think that would be a good source of help for homeless people. A lot of times homeless people can't take off of their their shoes. You know It was a few times and when I was in different shelters where I had to sleep with my shoes on, because I didn't want anybody to steal my shoes, you know. And so a lot of times I had on my shoes for three or four days before I could actually take them off and having my my feet be refreshed or whatever. I don't know what to say. It's like there's even a brief moments that you know I took my shoes off to take showers and stuff like that it was like I'm right back in those shoes again, you know. So maybe 20 minutes that I had my shoes off just not really giving my my shoes or my feet a chance to breathe and get the help that I need. Even even now with with me working, because of my size, my feet are a long ways away from me. So it's kind of hard maintaining my feet and so being able to go to someplace like sole care and have them help me with my feet is just a blessing, it's just great. I think that would be a great addition. Having something like that going on. Kathleen Clark 41:29 Was there anything that you'd like to add before we finish for the day? C Cecil Scott 41:33 You know, just somebody keep their head up, keep the faith, trying to do good. Trying to do good. Cecil 2021 Page 11 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Kathleen Clark 41:48 Thank you so much for taking the time to share your story and your insights and have great day. Cecil 2021 Page 12 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Title: Street Voices of Change: Transcript of Oral History Interview with Melvin James, 2021
Collection: Augsburg Central Health Commons Oral History Project
Search Result: Melvin James: Oral History 2021 Thu, 7/22 11:02AM 21:27 SUMMARY KEYWORDS life, epidemic, homelessness, person, blessing, nonsense, illinois, work, pandemic, stronger, katie, strength, homeless, toll, stay, sharing, melvin, augsburg, minneapolis, mobility SPEAKERS Isaac Tadé, Melvin Jam...
Show more Melvin James: Oral History 2021 Thu, 7/22 11:02AM 21:27 SUMMARY KEYWORDS life, epidemic, homelessness, person, blessing, nonsense, illinois, work, pandemic, stronger, katie, strength, homeless, toll, stay, sharing, melvin, augsburg, minneapolis, mobility SPEAKERS Isaac Tadé, Melvin James I Isaac Tadé 00:02 Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the Augsburg University Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tade. I'm a student intern with Augsburg Central Health Commons, could you please introduce yourself for the recording. M Melvin James 00:15 My name is Melvin James. I Isaac Tadé 00:20 Thank you. And before we continue, I would like to confirm that you consent to be interviewed and having the interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public? M Melvin James 00:31 Sure, yes. All right, we'll need to be heard. I Isaac Tadé 00:35 All right, I agree. Well let's get right into it then Melvin. So, um, let's get to know you a little Melvin James: Oral History 2021 Page 1 of 9 Transcribed by https://otter.ai bit more. Could you tell me about where you grew up, and who you call family. M Melvin James 00:47 I was growing up in Illinois, in a little country town. Eleanor, Illinois area called St. Anne, Illinois. It's like 65 miles south of Chicago, okay. And raised in the country. And my mom had 18 kids by one man. And so now we're down to five out of 18. So, I'm 62 years of age now. I'm blessed and not distressed, and I try to give everybody else, the blessings. Some what of the blessings that I have rolled up, rolled up around and the wisdom and and the thoughts and humor I Isaac Tadé 01:49 The humor is a good part of it. Yeah. So, you, you said you had five siblings remaining. Do you have any kids of your own? M Melvin James 01:58 Yeah. Four boys. I Isaac Tadé 01:59 Okay. M Melvin James 02:02 They stay in Illinois. Okay, I'm in Minnapolis, Minnesota. Okay, yeah, it was, I was 45 years old when I moved to Minneapolis, and I'm 62 now, it'd be been, been a winding road, you know, everybody's life goes through a wind and roll, you know, I live in, You know, but, you know, I kind of, kind of try to remain, stay correctly into the end of my life. Yeah. I Isaac Tadé 02:33 Excellent, thank you. Um, can you tell me more about how you got involved with Street Voices of Change? M Melvin James 02:40 I was homeless here a few years back, and stuff and so I become what you say, what can I say. Kin of your life, you know, try to follow the, the pattern, who can help who, you know, Melvin James: Oral History 2021 Page 2 of 9 Transcribed by https://otter.ai sort of make my weakness, the strongest point of my life. And it was difficult, you know, you know, but I think I found the nearest right path to walk down, you know, some paths it was far off, you know, but I ended up finding it near the near path the follow to walk down. Then I got to thinking about who I am, you know, as a person, you know, without the thinking of a bad person, you know, and I'm not all that good either. I Isaac Tadé 03:53 I think we all got a little bit of that. M Melvin James 03:56 It was difficult work. I haven't, I haven't really reached any between harms in our I never really put myself in harm's way too often. Unless it. If it doesn't benefit me I don't worry about it. I don't worry about their, their, the, the nonsense. In life, you know, what nonsense and will be available to you no matter what situation you might be in go through you know nonsense gonna be there anyway. I Isaac Tadé 04:37 Okay, so what did life look for you before the pandemic, and what's different for you now because of COVID? M Melvin James 04:44 Well, life. Before the pandemic, life was nice was gravy, you know, it was, it was comfortable, you know, I did everything normal that I supposed to do, you know that to keep myself raised as a human being, you know, and keep myself in a proper position. You know they whenever they made here, it did it really take a toll on me you know it. Never tripped over my own feet you know during epidemic, you know, but it slows down a lot, a lot of preparations of things that I need to get out and do you know and people that need to. People that I like to keep company with, you know, you know, they put a damper on, you know, oh, on my lifestyle, you know, it's like basically like, I think everybody life is like, put on hold. You know, you have to move to like you put on hold. There you go, but taking all this nonsense drama care at all, you know, so I try to keep you away from their nonsense, but it's available to you no matter what, you know, I'll come to you don't ever work, but I was, as I stayed comfortable within myself, you know, everything, everything worked out for me. Yeah. Good. Very, very well. Okay. very glad. Melvin James: Oral History 2021 Page 3 of 9 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 06:17 Okay, thank you for sharing M Melvin James 06:19 I took some losses, you know, epidemic, but it wasn't cause of covid and stuff, you know, peoples' health get to fail I just buried a sister back here July the forth, just buried a sister this year July the forth, and stuff, it wasn't because of that epidemic, their healthcare just keeled over on them. Oh, yeah. But everyday, families, family that stays together family that prays together stays together. I Isaac Tadé 06:50 Yes sir, yes sir. Um, so, in what ways has the pandemic changed your outlook on life. Do you see things different now? M Melvin James 07:02 It's about the same, you know, do I enjoy my life is coming back stronger and stronger and stronger, you know, day by day, hour by hour, you know, you know, you have to kind of think about where you was before the epidemic, and where you gonna be after the epidemic, you know, you get to kind of put that positive mode back into your life that you had before, the epidemic, You know and I think things do it work out a whole lot easier. And to get back normal. And I think that kind of trying to think ahead of what you should process. After the effort epidemic, you know you should keep that same process, you know, but upgrade it, you know, a lot, you know, a lot different. I Isaac Tadé 07:55 How would you say that COVID-19 change homelessness or affected homelessness, I should say. M Melvin James 08:02 they get affected homelessness. A lot serious not motivated in a person that living in a own home, you know where they can be provided for and gone, give a person at home that they got nowhere to go, but to the shelter where the shelter is not providing them the shelter that they need in a life, you know, they really need in a life that they nobody take the time to feel they need the to gonna try to say to you know, To give them the blessing Melvin James: Oral History 2021 Page 4 of 9 Transcribed by https://otter.ai that they really need, you know everybody is, you know, they've got a job, concept, you know that don't involve homelessness, you know, don't involve homeless you home that you get home, you know this, this is this is this, this is the service, we got you you want it, you take it, you know, if you want it you want it, you're not getting it. I Isaac Tadé 09:09 Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I'm in the summer 2020 The movement against systemic racism had Minneapolis at its epicenter, with the murder of George Floyd. Um, can you describe your experience living in Minneapolis St. Paul during that time. It's a heavy question M Melvin James 09:33 Yeah this is serious. Nonsense take a take a hold up in everybody's life. nonsense take a hold up in everybody life, you know, and you take you take advantage of that nonsense, you know, it's no, it's no, it's gonna, it's gonna through some red flags, you know, and it's other people that doesn't challenge you on what you about what you work in for what you're trying to learn, you know, that's, you know, that's, that's, that's a toll. You know that's a toll, each and everywhere's life, you know. cuz you got to understand that other people, different people lives matter to different people's, you know, it's a concept of what you got to invite to, you know, what do you have to bring to the table, you know, you bring you bring, You can't, you can't take. You can't take you can take a round table, and make it a square, you know, you take a square table and make it round, you know, but how round Do you want this table to be, you want to tell will be round enough for people to sit around round enough for people to learn from around enough people to eat off. You know, this is you know this is just, it's just a question on each and everybody's action in everybody's head. I Isaac Tadé 11:04 What has brought you strength and hope through the last year. M Melvin James 11:09 Because I'm blessed not to distress for one thing, you know, and I do not let stress really get to get to my soul. You know always tried to be blessed, you know with all types of evil, you know, are trying to keep, keep my blessing. This is my priority my blessing is my strength my blessing is my, my, my speaking. And my blessing, you know this is my hungryness, you know, I'm starving for more blessing. I'm hungry for more blessings and Melvin James: Oral History 2021 Page 5 of 9 Transcribed by https://otter.ai blessings, never, never bertrayed you. I Isaac Tadé 11:52 I like that. I like that. So is there anything else that you want people to know or remember 30 years from now, about the experience. It's the experience of homelessness during this period of time. What do you want people to remember. M Melvin James 12:10 Remember to hope, the hope that you get it life the hope that you, you get that you build a strength for, you know you got to have hope. Have strength, to learn from our mistakes, you know, the strength to strength. Strength on a soul in your body in your mind is the strength of your life, you know, this is firstly your life, you keep that strength life upon you, you know, you get you get stronger and stronger. I Isaac Tadé 12:41 That's what you want people to remember. Just beautiful. Um, if you could ask people to work on something or get involved in an issue, what would that be, is there something that people hearing this could help with what issues need more attention. M Melvin James 13:02 Violence. Trust. It's sort of a different flaw and every day. There's a different flaws and every day but keep your head up, you know, keep yourself. To keep yourself out of harm's way and in mobility yourself to be stronger, you know by everybody else's strong, you know, trying to be strong, you know, invite you know, they strong this, instead of they always be weak, you know, never, never, never challenged the book by a cover. Yeah. Y'all we had to y'all we had to open the book to read the pages to see how, each and everybody life is. You just can't look at the cover and judge a person by their appearance. Yet, you go to somebody by their apearance, you miss the whole message you missing the whole message, you have to open the book and read the pages of this notebook of life. I Isaac Tadé 14:20 So are you saying that people shouldn't make make assumptions and that they should live experiences so that they can know where to be like helpful? Melvin James: Oral History 2021 Page 6 of 9 Transcribed by https://otter.ai M Melvin James 14:33 Oh yeah, yes. I mean, don't don't put yourself to be homeless, you know, homeless. Homeless Not, Not, not, not a class act. there's something that that comes overnight, you know, you might wake up in the morning you might you might do some you might say something to somebody, somebody might, you know, don't, don't appeal of what you say or don't approve of what she's saying or what do you want to do, you know, and that can that can take that could take your life backwards. That could take your life backwards, you know, i think for some sort of some some, you know, in aint about drug and alcohol, contents or nothing like that, you know, but that can be it can be our total fault, too. But keeping you keeping your mind, mobility in a positive state. If you lose a positive state that you might lose out on everything, you know, that can bring you to homelessness and, you know, trying to try to try to pay Paul, trying to rob Paul to pay to pay Peter, you know, you voice, you work against yourself. You never take you never should work against yourself, you should be able to work with others. I Isaac Tadé 16:06 Okay, thank you. And just a few final questions geared towards health. What would you say that you need for health? What do you need for good health? M Melvin James 16:20 good vitamins. Okay, good positive role model. Good a good for good, you know, he take a good or bad, good for good. And try to...it's hard to try to eat right, you know, we, we get a certain age, you know, when you're a kid, you know you can your parent. Somebody that's overseeing you can, can, can help you feed yourself right but once you get older, you really doesn't. Yeah, you really doesn't, you know, you want to do just stay healthy. Yeah. I Isaac Tadé 17:25 Have you met the nurses at Central? And then, do you have any feedback for them. M Melvin James 17:31 Oh yeah they good people. A really good part of the people they people person, you don't have it. Everybody I think come to the site about three to four times a year, maybe less. I really don't keep count I just ideas come where, where I know I can feel creative, or I can feel life, or I can feel wanted to feel love, you know, Melvin James: Oral History 2021 Page 7 of 9 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 18:00 And you feel those things here? M Melvin James 18:01 All right, good. That's why I come, yeah come to here all the time, you know, because I feel, I feel like this big old coffee house. Yeah with enjoyment, you know that keeps me to come and sit down and you can basically talk about anything that going on with what in your life, and ask them about how they life, treat now, you know, you know, Katie. She's, she's a wonderful, she's a wonderful girl. And all her all her followers were I Isaac Tadé 18:35 little disciples M Melvin James 18:36 right you know, they, you know she out he hand picked them her group, it that they want to hang out with it, you know, but I feel that the group of people that that Katie mends with is good people like her, you know, good, good positive people like her, you know, as I come through her you know and I see a new face a new nurse or something, you know, And they say back you know they like. I'm trying but you know I'm trying to, you know, not to get too evolved in a homeless person or a lot of visitors. And I'm like, "well it's your first time? yeah well it's my first time too. I Isaac Tadé 19:34 relatability M Melvin James 19:35 right yeah, my first time here today. Oh, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, you know, don't, don't be afraid, you know, say something we just people right, you know, Yes, you know, just be careful, a while for you to open up, you know, around you around peoples that is less, less, less unfortunate, but what, but they try to, they try to not try to force they selves what they try to learn your education as you try to learn my education, right, like, Yeah, I Isaac Tadé 20:15 Melvin James: Oral History 2021 Page 8 of 9 Transcribed by https://otter.ai okay. Yeah. Okay, thank you. That's really good feedback for the nurses I think they'll appreciate that. Um, is there anything else you'd like to share before we finish today. M Melvin James 20:28 I appreciate every day this church in every place I go, you know they welcomed me with open arms and, you know, let me, let me joke with them and, You know, they gave me some feedback some joking feedback. And I like that I like, like a strong person, you know, a person that won't be a person, you know, definitely a people person, you know, that excites me. It keeps me motivated, you know, I know, I know where to come, when I, when I feel like I'm down all I gotta do is think of, Central Lutheran Church, Katie, all in them, you know, and that brightens my day. You know, I Isaac Tadé 21:12 that's beautiful. M Melvin James 21:13 Brigthens my day. I Isaac Tadé 21:14 Okay, well thank you, that's all the questions I have for today. Again, thank you for taking your time and for sharing your stories and insights, Oh, you're all right. Thank you. Melvin James: Oral History 2021 Page 9 of 9 Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Title: Street Voices of Change: Transcript of Oral History Interview with Mercedes Ramsey, 2021
Collection: Augsburg Central Health Commons Oral History Project
Search Result: Mercedes 2021 Fri, 7/30 11:01AM 24:25 SUMMARY KEYWORDS life, minneapolis, augsburg, happened, epidemic, live, feel, women, housing, mercedes, people, katie, started, experienced, sick, riots, work, shelter, care, pray SPEAKERS Mercedes Ramsey, Kathleen Clark Kathleen Clark 00:00 All r...
Show more Mercedes 2021 Fri, 7/30 11:01AM 24:25 SUMMARY KEYWORDS life, minneapolis, augsburg, happened, epidemic, live, feel, women, housing, mercedes, people, katie, started, experienced, sick, riots, work, shelter, care, pray SPEAKERS Mercedes Ramsey, Kathleen Clark Kathleen Clark 00:00 All right. So thank you for joining us today for this oral history project at Augsburg University's Health Commons. My name is Katie Clark, and I'm a professor of Nursing at Augsburg and the executive director of the Health Commons. Can you please introduce yourself for the recording? M Mercedes Ramsey 00:20 My name is Mercedes Ramsey. Kathleen Clark 00:24 And before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed, and that having that interviewed stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public. M Mercedes Ramsey 00:35 okay. Mercedes 2021 Page 1 of 8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Kathleen Clark 00:37 All right. So can you just tell me a little bit about yourself and who you called family and maybe how you ended up in Minneapolis? M Mercedes Ramsey 00:47 Okay. Like I said, Mercedes Ramsey. I've been in Minneapolis off and on since 1983. A little bit about myself, going on 11 years sobriety for alcohol, marijuana, dealing with kidney disease and other health problems. What else? I've also like I said, been, went through the homeless situation from 99 to 2007. 2007 I was selected, along with a bunch of other women through Simpson's Womens' housing program that they started and got affiliated with getting into my own apartment. I got into a couple apartments, but I wasn't feeling safe. So my housing advocate helped me get into the Continental and I had been there for nine years. During the nine years, I've faced different situations. I also done stuff for Ayaan as far as being part of Resident Planning Committee, went to neighbor works, conferences. Three of them went to Miami, Orlando and Cincinnati. We did a big ol barbecue. What else? I also did different other things, did women's group before the epidemic start here at Central Lutheran. Within that group, we did bingo, watch movies, did some crafts. Hopefully, when this epidemic's all over, we can go back to doing that again. What else? Kathleen Clark 03:16 Um, why was the womens' group started? M Mercedes Ramsey 03:21 Why? I think is because we had Street Voices of Change. And then there's other women asking, asking about it because they had done it was the 90s or early 2000. What before the construction started here at the church? And then there was two ladies from Augsburg that was doing it. And they were doing different things within the group. Something that happened and me and another lady that participated. We did the started started it up. So, but yeah. Kathleen Clark 04:15 How did you get involved with Street Voices? Mercedes 2021 Page 2 of 8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai M Mercedes Ramsey 04:18 How'd I get involved? What they're going in their fifth year? Well, when they started, people was saying, "hey, if you come to the scoop on Thursday mornings, they have a big breakfast. And now after that you you'll get a bus card." And as I like "really?!"so I start coming to that, not just for the breakfast to the bus card but some of the some of the sessions we were doing the talks were interested in me how they can get about getting changes and Salvation Army at their shelter, and now, four, five years later, they're getting it fixed so, which is good. It took some time, but it got done. What else? And then just come in for the different topics and people met in different city officials in that. Yeah. Kathleen Clark 05:30 That's great. So what did life look like for you, before the pandemic, and what is different for you, because of COVID-19? M Mercedes Ramsey 05:41 Well, before the epidemic, I was coming here doing different groups in that I was going to Westminister for their, their senior drop in center. I go to St. Olaf for their Tuesday club for women. But it changed to where people could come. What else, and then when the epidemic started, it just, you couldn't go nowhere. You know, they do, they shut down and that. So during them times, I'd stay home, make sure no one comes and visits. But even though it would be nice, but not because of the epidemic. I didn't want to get sick and all that other so. And then I have a miniature pinscher just turned nine years old. So he keeps me company. And then I would just take him outside and come back in, there was no nothing else to do. So thanks for DVD, movies, and YouTube. And Netflix, I kept myself occupied instead of getting out crazy. Crazy. Kathleen Clark 07:15 So has the pandemic changed your outlook on life at all? M Mercedes Ramsey 07:19 To be more, to be more careful, wash my hands. It's not over. You know, every time we turn the TV on, there's more viruses and some fungus thing going around now, you know, it's just getting worse. And I'm a type of one to, to believe in my faith. You know, like they say in revelations, "all the things that are happening are happening now." And then like with all the...how can I say this? With the other shootings and stuff? You got to realize if you go Mercedes 2021 Page 3 of 8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai back in history, all that that happened before, and it's happening again, it's just getting worse, you know, bye! Oh, I'm sorry. And it's just getting worse. And, you know, you can't go outside, not even in the day anymore, you know, without getting shot or assaulted or something happening. So, with me, I just, I gotta if I got to do something, I make sure it's done before, or at least, those street lights come on, because I don't go back outside. There's nothing out there except trouble. But as you can see, they do mean, they don't care what day time of day it is. But you just got to keep your guard and stuff and your surroundings and everything. I just pray that these young ones would stop retaliating with each other. You know, it might not be their fault. Maybe the parents are not paying attention to them and that, but you know, life is too short. Kathleen Clark 09:31 We'll see. So in the summer of 2020 the movement against systemic racism began as Minneapolis was the epicenter with the murder of George Floyd. Can you describe your experience living in Minneapolis during that time? M Mercedes Ramsey 09:50 With me, Katie, during that time when that happened to the guy it's it just...So my opinion is I don't know, I seen the video and stuff, but he could have just cooperated and did what they wanted him to do. But I don't know, I think he just to me, and he more escalated it. But like I said, it didn't change anything of me living my life, or doing what I got to do. It ain't it didn't stop me from doing anything. I didn't, wasn't like scared for my life, because, oh, all African Americans are out there to kill somebody because of what happened. But during the riots, I just stayed inside and watched it on the news, you know, and just sat there like, this, what happened back in the 60s, you know, or was the 70s when they had riots, Detroit and Chicago. That's just what happened. But they didn't, though, looters or whatever, they didn't have to go all these different stores and tear up, you know, or burn them, and it just made it worse. So with me during that time, I just took care of myself. And like I said, just to live, you have to deal with it you know? You can't get mad and upset about it, because it's gonna happen, you know, and now that it's over, they're slowly trying to build back up what they had. But that takes time and money and all that. So praying to those lost stuff. Kathleen Clark 12:04 Well, and for me, knowing you, as long as I have and knowing like, what you've had to endure, as far as like many different health issues that's happened in the last few years, Mercedes 2021 Page 4 of 8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai you always are so positive in giving back. So what, where does that resonate from? And, and I do want I don't want to generalize, but I do feel like many people are feeling more, you know, despair, or hopeless, maybe right now, with all the different things that we've lived through in these last few years. So what brings you your strength and your joy, M Mercedes Ramsey 12:41 My strength, and my joy brings me with them myself. Because, you know, like I've said, life is too short. And with me, I want to enjoy it every day. And if I don't take care of myself, I'll get sick, and I'll do my treatments through dialysis. I won't be here. So with all the things that are happening in this world, I just, I got to keep myself positive, even though at times, Katie, I feel like I want to give up, like, I don't want to be here no more. But I then like, sit there and I pray about it. And you know, ask God to give me strength in that. And so I, I tend to sometimes, like, "Oh, I don't want to do this, and I don't want to live life no more because life is just getting so hard." But then I'd be thinking, well, I wonder how I would feel whenever everybody knows that, you know, Mercedes gone to see her Heavenly Father, but then I try not to think that way. So I just, I keep doing what I got to do and that's just, take care of myself and do my best to live in little longer. Kathleen Clark 14:22 So if there's something that 30 years from now that you wanted people to remember about what it was like for people who are experienced who have either experienced homelessness or are marginally housed or you know, have been living downtown, is there what would you want people to remember 30 years from now about this moment in Minneapolis. M Mercedes Ramsey 14:49 That to be more to give yourself more strength and things will be bad some days will be Good, but always remember to keep your faith up and be strong about it. There'll be days where you don't want to do nothing. And you just feel like given up. But you know, that's why we have mental health groups and drop in centers and stuff. And people need to take more. Take the opportunity of using them services, because we're losing too many young people as it is, regardless if you're young, middle aged or elder, but. They just keep keep a sharp mind, or keep their mind sharp or will try to, you know, being homeless and then get into these programs. Yeah, you get a follow rules. Excuse me. You got to follow rules. Regardless, wherever you live, you know, so. And if they don't like the rules, then that's why some of them sleep outside. They don't like to go by the shelter rules. So Mercedes 2021 Page 5 of 8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Kathleen Clark 16:19 Some, some of the people who might listen to this oral history might wonder what issues or what things they could do to get involved or to help? Is there something that people hearing this could help with, that you envision whether it's through, you know, just your own experiences, or your work with Street Voices? Like, what's something that you would want people to know or be aware of to work on? M Mercedes Ramsey 16:31 They want to get help in that? Kathleen Clark 16:56 No, like, let's say that we share this with others who had been at Street Voices who wanted to hear more stories from people about their experiences at this point in life? What would you want them to work on? Like, you know, you have your housing shelter bill, you have, you know, many different things like the evictions are going to start happening again. And all those things like, Is there an issue like health, addiction, whatever it might be, that you really think needs some attention, if somebody were to put some effort into something? M Mercedes Ramsey 17:32 What you mentioned a lot of though, you know, addiction and eviction and all other things, what's more important is to, to help them get off, get off out of the streets, get into some program. There's a lot of them around here. I think, now that you mention it, Avivio has got in warehouse little homes, you know, that they... all they need is different people to help them with getting into the resources. And if people were to get information and get out and log into, into computers and print out stuff for them, because some some of them need, you know, a little boost. You know, like, here you go. There's these different resources. And some of them some people don't even know too many of what's going on around here. Because they feel like they're too scared. Or if they do talk, they feel like, well, in the house, some feel like I don't want to officers or the officials to get involved. So I don't want to be bothered, you know, but yeah, they they had like something here where somebody, say for instance, comes in and says, well, we need some help of getting into some type of housing, well, then you just get up in that computer, then start looking for different resources for them. Mercedes 2021 Page 6 of 8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Kathleen Clark 19:29 And what was the big change for you that got you to get off the streets and, you know, get sober, was there some moment? M Mercedes Ramsey 19:39 Because I had gotten sick of waking up sick or having a hangover or sleeping on this couch or sleeping at this person's house and, you know, because you got to follow by their rules. So it got to a point Katie I was like, I gotta change. So that's when I don't know, it must, god was hearing my plea or something when I was at Simpson's womens' shelter. And because the next day they were like, when Mercedes, we got to talk to you talk to me about what? Well, you got to come in the office. Well, whatever woman said, I did it, I didn't do it. So they're like, No, no, no, you're not in trouble. No, we're, oh, we picked you and few other women to get into our new housing program. So from there, I, you know, I was, real happy. And the advocate is supposed to get with me, and who were to drive around and look at places, but I had already had places in mind, you know. And she took me to one place 26 and Columbus, I still remember, and got in there. And next thing, you know, I'm inviting my drinking buddies, and we're partying, carrying on and finally I'm like, "you're only here in this apartment with me, because I got this place. It's a place where you can come and drink." And then I like, "all of you guys to get out!" And then from there, from then on, I just, you know, slowly working on myself. But yeah, every once in a while, you know, they're like, "Oh, you think you're better than us?" Well you can get into a place too, you know! You got to follow the rules. And and if you don't follow them, you're out. So and since then, I've had a place. No, there'd be times where it was hard, but I made sure my rent was paid and my lights. And now I manage my money and budget it when I can. Might splurge every once in a while. But, you know, you know, you have people that help you and you want to help them back? So I feel good about it. Kathleen Clark 22:38 So being a person of color living in Minneapolis, has it been different since George Floyd died in any way? Or is it been basically the same as far as like, just feeling any more pressures or microaggressions? or any of those things? M Mercedes Ramsey 22:57 With me, Katie, I try not to even think on that. You know, like I said, it's times are changing, and it's gonna keep going on and on. No matter one group wants to stop it and change it, or another group just keeps escalating. It's just gonna keep doing and like I said, I just, I Mercedes 2021 Page 7 of 8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai just live my life and take care of me. I'm not worried about all that. It's gonna happen. You know, I'm saying, you turn on your TV and something else is happening. You know, but Kathleen Clark 23:40 I would say you take care of others too. You take care of me. Well, is there anything else you'd like to add? Or? M Mercedes Ramsey 23:51 Yes, Augsburg, every times a nurse celebrates? We're gonna have pizza party, right? Kathleen Clark 24:01 I love it. Okay, bye. We're sitting by the door. So everyone's waving if they leave. Thank you so much, M Mercedes Ramsey 24:11 you're welcome Kathleen Clark 24:11 This concludes our interview for the day and thanks for taking the time. M Mercedes Ramsey 24:17 No, problem. Mercedes 2021 Page 8 of 8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Title: Street Voices of Change: Transcript of Oral History Interview with Darrell Warren, 2021
Collection: Augsburg Central Health Commons Oral History Project
Search Result: Darrell Warren 2021 Thu, 7/29 11:34AM 32:35 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, pandemic, life, feel, hope, hear, voices, community, gave, street, health, floyd, situation, call, officers, law enforcement, interacting, interview, shelter, fighting SPEAKERS Isaac Tadé, Darrell I Isaac Tadé 00:02...
Show more Darrell Warren 2021 Thu, 7/29 11:34AM 32:35 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, pandemic, life, feel, hope, hear, voices, community, gave, street, health, floyd, situation, call, officers, law enforcement, interacting, interview, shelter, fighting SPEAKERS Isaac Tadé, Darrell I Isaac Tadé 00:02 Hello and thank you for joining us today for the oral history project for the Augsburg University Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tadé, I'm a student intern with Augsburg Central Health Commons, could you please introduce yourself for the recording. D Darrell 00:17 His name is Darrell Warren, I Isaac Tadé 00:20 that, yes, yeah. No, go ahead. I cut you up, D Darrell 00:25 just participating in this interview here process. So you guys can get a better perception of what we experienced of being homeless is I Isaac Tadé 00:37 excellent, thank you. And just before we continue, I would like to just confirm that you consent to being interviewed, and that the interview can be stored at Augsburg University Darrell Warren 2021 Page 1 of 16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai available to the public. D Darrell 00:50 Yes, I agree with that. I Isaac Tadé 00:52 Okay, thank you. So, getting right into it. Can you tell me about where you grew up and who you call family? D Darrell 00:59 Yeah, I grew up in Chicago, Illinois. And I left there at 17 with the Job Corps and the people are called families is my siblings, which are deceased, my both parents, grandparents, older brother and my youngest sister died of cancer. My mom died of breast cancer. My grandmother died of cancer. My dad had a heart attack and my older brother had a similar heart attack. And so I just had one sibling left, which is a twin. He's live in Rock Island. And so people are called family on the streets and being homeless gets you in different groups that I come across or become apart that's like Street Voices, really have been supportive and helpful in my needs so that to me is family, those who can identify your situation and we, you know, kinda interact with each other, they have become my family and not necessarily bloods. They're my family only through DNA and blood, but, you know, as far as the situations that I go in, they're not really supportive. You know, or even been supportive of my situations and my needs, more to my homeless situations and they have their own lives. I Isaac Tadé 02:34 Right, well and you have your dog. D Darrell 02:36 Oh yeah, I Isaac Tadé 02:37 you got your dog here today Darrell Warren 2021 Page 2 of 16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai D Darrell 02:39 Xena, that's my best friend I Isaac Tadé 02:40 Xena right there. Yeah, yes sir, yes sir. Okay, thank you. Um, could you tell me more about how you got involved with Street Voices of Change. D Darrell 02:53 Yes I was, actually I was in fear for fear of my life in Hibbing, Minnesota, St. Louis County, falsely arrested by law enforcement. And then I was one being assaulted, and they trumped up all these charges on me of fleeing and obstruction and of that nature, and which is all false and, you know, putting these guns on me so I've been fighting this battle by myself for probably a whole year now. And, and I had to leave. I had to give up my place, due to the fact that I was scared to live in that town, you know, cause they kept harassing me and so I just packed up one bag and left my left my apartment. Been living in Minnesota then I came to Minneapolis and I've heard of George Floyd and I had seen all the events happening on TV, with law enforcement, with, you know with, uh with the shootings. And I came to Minneapolis, Minnesota, you know, to get some help or, you know, to find a lawyer, civil rights lawyer groups that have a support system, and Steet Voices was the one that was, I met this guy named Earl he told me about it and and invited me to a meeting, and I said I'd come by tomorrow morning about Street Voices and I sat in the meeting and I like what they stood for. So, you know, I feel like I want to be more of a part of their meetings and things that they do so I want be more involved. I Isaac Tadé 04:39 So you've been coming here for about a year now? D Darrell 04:41 No actually only I've only been in Minneapolis for a month and a half. I Isaac Tadé 04:49 Oh wow, okay, Darrell 04:50 Darrell Warren 2021 Page 3 of 16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai D Darrell 04:50 I'm been fighting my legal, I Isaac Tadé 04:52 okay that's been for a year. D Darrell 04:54 False, being falsely arrested I Isaac Tadé 04:56 right D Darrell 04:57 So, Steet Voices, this is probably my second, second meeting. Okay, Street Voices, on coming. I Isaac Tadé 05:10 Well we're glad you keep coming back. Yeah. And I'm sorry about your false accusation, that's, that's a terrible experience. Um, you talked about this a little bit already, but what did life look like for you before the pandemic, and what is different for you now because of COVID-19? D Darrell 05:33 I think life was a before the COVID, it was actually going well you know I think what, what, for me what turned around, wasn't this so much of a COVID thing, it was a president that we had. Donald Trump. And this was like my whole community changed. You know when he became president and people just changed, you know, as they started seeing, you know, color, you know, and I no longer felt no part of the community anymore, you know I Isaac Tadé 06:08 and is this, was this in Chicago or was this in... Darrell Warren 2021 Page 4 of 16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai D Darrell 06:12 Hibbing. Hibbing Minnesota, St. Louis County. And it just took a drastic change, you know, in different groups coming up there and different people from different places of states and recruiting people for these racial, for their racial hate groups and people just started changing so I just started not feel like I didn't fit anymore. I'm still trying to have hope, you know, they're like oh, is this really happening. You know, I would go into stores people would call the police just for no reason or saying my service animal is not welcome and I'm constantly being harassed by the police only get behind my car, and I'm like "hey you know me and they have been in this community for awhile" you know just threw guns on me and also getting it was getting really hectic, so I had to start being afraid, you know, fleeing actually, fearing for my life. I Isaac Tadé 07:10 So all of those things those are social, and even some like political pressures that were taking a toll on you, even before all of you know, the pandemic and all of the health related things like that. How would you say, did, did COVID scare you at all? You know maybe you're more afraid of, you know the police in Hibbing than COVID. You maybe not thinking about a virus, that you can't see, you're probably thinking about a gun and an officer that you can see. D Darrell 07:41 Yes, that's exactly how it was. That was the issue, and due to the COVID pandemic, it was just like, you know, it was a ghost town and if you out at night with a certain time. It was times where I was, you know, I didn't want to be out at even night to go to the store, it might start to get dark, to go to the store because it was like, you know, I felt like I was open season for like be more attacked. Because I did experience to where they had set up like a curfew and I remember the one officers that come, you know, coming over and I knew them. They knew me and I knew them, and I'm just sitting there, knowing this still in Hibbing and I'm sitting there. On my laptop and, you know, they just came to sit there by me, one standing up in there looking up, never said anything so then I'm like "wow". So at this time, this is the beginning of the COVID. And so, and he asks, so then I asked him like "hey, you know, what's going on?" "Oh Nothing we just sitting here." And I made a statement about George Floyd and I was like, could they initiate a conversation or anything so I just initiated a conversation but man it was really, right after the killing them of George Floyd. And I was like "Wow man it's really sad what happened to George Floyd man I mean, that was some coward stuff to have someone in handcuffs and then, you know.. Darrell Warren 2021 Page 5 of 16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 09:14 Choked him to death D Darrell 09:15 and take the choke them out, take his life. I was like, "man if I was him, I would have been fighting back" so I had made a comment like that, they are officers. And, and I was afraid too that they were about to engage, engage, engage me in that way. And they kept looking around to see if anybody was around. And this drone appeared over us and I'm like, "Oh wow, I hope that drone has a camera on it" and in someone had yelled out. We just had a protest up there with, with the police shootings and stuff. And so when I looked at the drone I was like, "I hope he has a camera on it" you know when somebody yelled out, "leave him alone." You know I never seen a person or yelled out, and so I just told the office I'm like "well, I know man is gonna be a curfew at nine o'clock and I'm just finishing up on my laptop here but is there anything I can do for y'all?" They didn't say nothing. I guess "I have nothing to talk to you about," you know, he made a statement like "Hey where was you at such and such time?" I'm like, "what do you mean where was I, like you seen me at the protests. You know, and I spoke to you. I was really afraid of my life if anything. And they had finally walked off you know when they seen someone stand out on the porch. I just thought there's gonna be enough statistical of violence from the police. I Isaac Tadé 11:02 That's terrifying. You know as a black man we feel like it could happen to any one of us at any time. D Darrell 11:08 Yes, anytime, I Isaac Tadé 11:11 and to be in that position. I can tell you know that was incredibly, well, fearful. D Darrell 11:24 Yeah, they're very terrifying. And then I, you know, I try to see, you know, you know them, not as a whole, as, as always, like, you know what's been using pattern behind a badge, you know to attack people. And because I also had that experience too. My son, he was Darrell Warren 2021 Page 6 of 16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai going to school for law enforcement. I Isaac Tadé 11:52 That's right, D Darrell 11:52 and he was the only African American in his class so when he used to do to the ride alongs. And I think this was before Trump became president. We used to do ride alongs. I know how families would feel when, you know, their husband or brother or wives out there or some in the field, you know, to serve and protect, right, you know, now he's like oh wow. You know when I hear sirens or something I call him and I hope he be alright. You know, and I know that there are some good, you know, officers on force as well you know. There were time I had to call them, call law enforcement. you know, situations and so I just look at you know, not the whole force has being, you know, being attacked, but the ones who can enforce and not abide by the rules. Think they're above the law. Them the ones I have issues with. I Isaac Tadé 12:50 Of course, you know, we trust certain people to enforce the law and we don't expect that they break it themselves, right, and that they, they also abide by the rules that normal civilians like you and me have to abide by. Right. So, I guess, first of all thank you for sharing that, and thank you for sharing your personal experience, um, in what way has the pandemic shaped your outlook on life. Has it changed how you see things? D Darrell 13:23 Yeah. I don't know, the pandemic is like, everybody's desensitized you know. First it was no interacting, you know, everything is done about monitor, right, you know, virtually, virtually. And then two and also, I was being taken advantage of too. Like back when I was going to court, you know, had a bad Zoom audio and a lot of my rights was being violated. You know where if I do try to speak to defend myself in the courtroom with the judge, and they would, they would mute me. You know, and then I call him and then ask the prosecutor, what he want to get for the same thing I was falsely charged for it, you know. And I would get muted. And, or they would just threaten me with contempt. You know and they take, I feel I've been taken advantage of doing that type of situation as far as the pandemic, that we had happening by zoom. Or there were times where I had to write a motion for a complaint on the judge to have her be removed from off the case file, Darrell Warren 2021 Page 7 of 16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai because she was violating my due process rights. Would not allow me to be heard. They just really take advantage over to take a trial, and where I didn't even have, where the prosecuter have any arrangement or submitted any evidence. You know I wasn't even being in heard, it was just like "hey you're a number, you know, hey, well you'll have no rights and you'd be muted, what you say don't matter." And that's the way I was taking with the pandemic. And then what was scaring me as well, just what I was hearing about, when I see that people with dying from this from this from this virus. You know and so a lot of elderly people, family members down in the South, that, you know, have lost in life. My older aunties and stuff like this. It was kind of scary that part of the generation now was just gone. I Isaac Tadé 15:48 Was there anything that gave you hope through the last year. What made you keep, Keep going. You had so much going on, you had police harassment. You had your case that you're trying to fight for in court, the pandemic going on, you know, of course, a national conversation or or even just, I don't know turmoil over, over, race, you know what, what brought you hope what kept you moving forward through all that time? D Darrell 16:21 What was keeping me moving forward? I was looking for a support system and, you know, Street Voices was, you know, it gave me hope or when I see the different groups as what's out there. You know, Street Voices cause they know what they stood for. And not just stood for, what they was practicing what they was fighting for, and then see. Also what gives me hope is when I go down Nicolette just seeing, you know, city putting on you know, different organization, putting out definitely events down on, downtown town bring back unity. Entertainment, you know, music appearrances, started back interacting It's not all virtual with Zoom anymore. I Isaac Tadé 17:10 Right. right, D Darrell 17:13 And, you know, we actually can say hi you know and smile you know and it's not behind some screen and you know you've been blowing off you know what I'm saying you can even go to, you know, kids can have no connection with a human being. That felt really weird, odd and lonely. And you know, to actually be or, you know, just know seeing, you Darrell Warren 2021 Page 8 of 16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai know once things started opening up and and see people interacting, that's what gave me gave me and giving me hope I Isaac Tadé 17:47 that's helpful D Darrell 17:48 to know that, no matter what race, color, creed, you know, I've seen people from all walks of life and people actually existing, you know, and it's peaceful. I Isaac Tadé 17:58 Yes sir D Darrell 17:59 unity, started to develop. And Street Voices. Again you know to come here, you know, it helped me again. A situation to wasting you know, when my car was illegally towed, I just got a job. I went into Street Voices, you know, was working at a place of hotel told me that they was hiring, I just started work Friday. Then on Saturday evening, I go and I'm living in the shelter now and I go Saturday evening. Go back to the shelter and I get off work and now my car towed, you know, and then that was towed illegally by traffic controls. So, like, one thing out of another and their price is outrageous. Yeah, and my whole life is in my car, my vehicle. I Isaac Tadé 18:53 Have you gotten the vehicle back or it's still in there? D Darrell 18:55 Oh, it's still in there, been in there since Saturday but, you know, you know, the organization that helped me out with some funding to to get it out today, which is a blessing because I don't know how to do it I have my whole life in there. Clothes, paperwork, medical papers, everything, basically living out my car. Isaac Tadé 19:22 Darrell Warren 2021 Page 9 of 16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 19:22 Right, right. Wow. So you're thankful to Street Voices for helping you get the funds to hopefully get that vehicle out. D Darrell 19:30 Yes, very grateful. I Isaac Tadé 19:32 Yeah, yeah. Wow, thank you for sharing that. And I'm so glad that this place has brought you some hope comfort, support, you know, during this time and. The next question is, is there anything else that you want people to remember 30 years from now, about your experience with homelessness during this period. What should people take away, what should they remember? D Darrell 20:03 Remember, the unity, and that there is hope and love in in numbers. You know? And that no person is alone. You know, I thought I was alone, you know, in the sense of family and community, feeling belonging, not judged by my race, color, creed or my gender, you know, which is a beautiful feeling like to be myself and not have to be ashame to what is going on in my life. You know and you know I could feel free to kind of open up about my about my experience. where as before I wasn't because I felt, you know, the times I was confined to someone that I didn't know. Suddenly speaking and it was being used against me. You know, even I guess some shelters, with staff, you know, they will use it against me and they don't think nothing of it. The least, little mistake they put you up out of, out of shelter. You're late, or anything or, you know, you know this, and then just add more stress because then I'm back, and then I got to sleep outside. You know, just outside of the park or something so I'm just thankful for what gives me hope to see churches come together where you know they allow us to sleep in the churches or give us blankets coffee, you know, water, you know, so yeah that's the community that brought me hope even if I was living on the streets, that was still, you know, helping people, was actually willing to help and be a part of that, I Isaac Tadé 21:46 you want to people to remember that there was unity during this time. Darrell Warren 2021 Page 10 of 16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai D Darrell 21:51 Yeah, I Isaac Tadé 21:51 even though it seems like there's so much division. D Darrell 21:54 Yes, yeah. I Isaac Tadé 21:56 Wow. And your personal story speaks to that D Darrell 21:59 yeah. I Isaac Tadé 22:01 Goodness gracious. Thank you. Um, okay, if you could ask people to work on something or get involved on an issue, what would that be? Is there something that people hearing this could help with? What issue should we be focusing on right now? D Darrell 22:21 The issue should be focused in on that. You know it's not that hard to smile or say hi to someone. I remember I was downtown and I've seen Minneapolis Police standing there, standing by their car, mean buggin', got their uniforms on you know. They have an influence in their community but they, you know that's trusted they have to earn back and I asked an officer like, "man, it don't cost you nothing to smile, you know, just to say wave, you know to say hi, you know you're standing out by your car downtown in downtown area," you know, but yet not greeting people. But I'm like, "hey, what if a kid come by, you know and you're being mean to one of this childs. How would that child feel? you know, so and I talked to a number of offices and sargents and so now I'm starting to see them working doing the old school. They walk in the downtown area now and they're waving and their smiling. That made me feel good to see Darrell Warren 2021 Page 11 of 16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 23:33 comfortable! D Darrell 23:33 if they feel comfortable to see it, they actually took a little time to listen and doing it. You know because people are hurting and angry you know due to violence and, everything, and loss of jobs, you know, so it's a hurting community as well as businesses you know so we all got to exist, you know, and then people like myself have a mental illness you have PTSD. And then, for people to be mindful of, you know before you judge or anything you know you never know that person mental illness or what's going on in their life. Take time out to just actually just know, view the whole situation with that person or to say somethning kind, which is a beautiful feeling. Even I don't have much, but if I have something someone need it, even if they don't need it. You know, I just go buy water, you know, from Target and there's on the hot days, I just do some good for someone. And that gets me out of myself my issues or problems to help someone else. You know with the change, that made me happy at that moment in time, just to pass out waters, you know. I Isaac Tadé 24:48 Man. Going to need water's today it's hot. D Darrell 24:51 Yeah! I Isaac Tadé 24:53 End of July. Yeah I think that's what you're saying is, you know small acts of kindness, go a long way. Yeah. I love that. I think everyone should incorporate that into their daily routine and just, it doesn't cost anything that wear a smile, like you said, right. Well thank you for sharing that. Um, so just a few more questions about general health. What would you say that you need for health, as you define it. So, what do you need to be healthy? D Darrell 25:33 So I mean, first of all, what I need to be healthy is stability. Because if you have stability, you can have a little healthy way of thinking. But we struggling, you know, from day to day, if you're on the streets and homeless, some things stress you out so I find it a spiritual Darrell Warren 2021 Page 12 of 16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai aspect, meaning. I have to get out of myself and I was service named Xena. She's been very therapeutic for me. I Isaac Tadé 26:18 Yes D Darrell 26:19 you know, because I think without her being apart of my life, and she's five, I don't even know if I'd be sitting here doing his interview or be in my right state of mind, because, I got to constantly be responsible for her. You know food, water, shelter, you know, things like things of that nature. I said I just got hired with employment but I mean. You know, coming to like Street Voices you know some of the things they provide like blankets, you know, meditate. I Isaac Tadé 27:02 yes, D Darrell 27:03 you know, so I incorporate those things when I'm going throughout my day once again. I will go to the park, you know, just sit in and listen to the birds and sit around the water you know, around nature. So it gave me that frame of mind, you know, where now it's like in some shelters, you know they have more resources and where if you don't have health care, if they found out I was eligible to receive some health loans, in order to get some health care, you know, to be able to get, you know, my prescription medications, you know. Check blood pressure, and stuff, you know, things of that nature. Which is, awesome so I can be kinda monitor of those things. I'm not always doing it but you know, I just keep going in today like "Oh, your blood pressure's high". I was wondering why I have the headaches. Okay I Isaac Tadé 28:11 There it is. D Darrell 28:12 You know then that checklist hits, you know like, "Okay, I need to come get peace of Darrell Warren 2021 Page 13 of 16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai mind." And sometimes I don't like being around a lot of people when I'm in that state of mind and in a dark period but I Isaac Tadé 28:30 I understand that, D Darrell 28:30 but you know, health care's is very important you know for me to see my medication for me to eat healthy, you know, fruits and vegetables. And then, and then the community has been very active in it, you know, you know what, coming around, you know, offering you know best fruits, vegetables, food, you know, so that's another thing. It's been, man it's been beautiful. I help anyone along, that they are continuing to help in the community, you know, to try to have basic needs of food, you know, stay healthier clothing, shoes, you know. Yeah. Street Voices is like, again it's not one of those organizations who come here to get clothes or shoes, hot meal a breakfast you know in morning people in meditation you know a way to start a day I Isaac Tadé 29:29 Oh Ellen with that meditation, I love it. I absolutely love it. Yeah. So sound like you said, you need stability, and within stability, are things that give you stability are. Well, your dog Xena, eating right, spending some time in nature, and then getting your proper like health care needs, but, yeah. Okay, excellent. I just wanted to run that back, make sure make sure I got it. Okay so then, have you met the nurses at Central? Have you met the nurses here? D Darrell 30:03 Oh yes, they just checked my blood pressure. They had to check because I felt a little dizzy and I know they get like that, it might be hot and I'm just wanting to know where it's at. I Isaac Tadé 30:14 Right. Okay, so you've met the nurses, And is there any feedback you have for them. D Darrell 30:21 Yes, man. For the nurses that are on frontline you know they they put their lives, you know, Darrell Warren 2021 Page 14 of 16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai they go out on a limb to still do what they do you know to to help people, I'm very grateful for, for the nurses, you know that's even hearing in abroad you know to actually dealing with all this in the beginning and still doing what they need to do to still serve the homeless. Homeless people, even people that retired is coming out of retirement, nurses, you know. To give their service and their professions, you know, and then their their advice or suggestion, you know, we do need to see a doctor you know because we don't always know without a professional, you know, to point that out, point out to us right. I Isaac Tadé 31:16 So you've had a good experience so far, it sounds like with the nurses here. D Darrell 31:19 Yes. I Isaac Tadé 31:20 Excellent, excellent. And then, do you have any feedback for, like, Health Commons, Central in general? Is there anything that we're missing is there anything that we can do better or improve on other services that we're lacking? Anything? D Darrell 31:37 Not, not, not that I know but I know for times that come, you know, my mental, physical, spiritual needs, was, was has been met you. I Isaac Tadé 31:49 Excellent. That's what we want to hear. Amazing, thank you. Um, before we finish, is there anything else you'd like to say before we're done today. D Darrell 31:59 I like to say, hey thanks for the interview and say, just continue to keep hope alive and you know I was a little depressed when I come in, but I got joy, going out. I Isaac Tadé 32:18 Darrell Warren 2021 Page 15 of 16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Good. Yes, good. I'm so happy to hear that, that makes my day. that makes my day. Well that's it. This concludes our interview for today. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your stories and insight with me. D Darrell 32:32 You're very welcome. I Isaac Tadé 32:33 Thank you so much. Darrell Warren 2021 Page 16 of 16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Title: Street Voices of Change: Transcript of Oral History Interview with Grant Tyus and Robert Nammar, 2021
Collection: Augsburg Central Health Commons Oral History Project
Search Result: Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral History 2021 Thu, 7/22 11:31AM 26:53 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, pandemic, floyd, augustana, exodus, catholic charities, place, whatnot, augsburg, george, receive, put, voices, commons, life, stimulus, homeless, stay, caddy, frostbite SPEAKERS Grant Tyus S...
Show more Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral History 2021 Thu, 7/22 11:31AM 26:53 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, pandemic, floyd, augustana, exodus, catholic charities, place, whatnot, augsburg, george, receive, put, voices, commons, life, stimulus, homeless, stay, caddy, frostbite SPEAKERS Grant Tyus Sr, Isaac Tadé, Robert Nammar I Isaac Tadé 00:02 Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the Augsburg University Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tadé. I'm a student intern with Augsburg Central Health Commons. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording? R Robert Nammar 00:16 Robert Nammar G Grant Tyus Sr 00:19 Grant Tyus Senior I Isaac Tadé 00:21 Thank you. And before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed, and having that interview stored at Augsburg University, that will be made available to the public. Grant Tyus Sr 00:32 Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage 20211 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai G Grant Tyus Sr 00:32 Yes, R Robert Nammar 00:33 yes. I Isaac Tadé 00:33 Okay, thank you. All right, so can you tell me more about how you got involved. Oh, excuse me, I'm jumping ahead of myself. Can you tell me where you grew up and who you call family? R Robert Nammar 00:45 Grew up. This is Robert Nammar, I grew up in Indiana. East Chicago. Say what? I Isaac Tadé 00:56 Who you called family. R Robert Nammar 00:58 My family. Family. I Isaac Tadé 01:03 Do you have, do you have siblings? R Robert Nammar 01:06 Yeah, I got two sisters and a brother. I Isaac Tadé 01:11 Okay, R Robert Nammar 01:12 Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage 20212 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Just lost one, so. I Isaac Tadé 01:14 I'm sorry. R Robert Nammar 01:15 Yeah, oldest. I Isaac Tadé 01:17 Do you have any kids? R Robert Nammar 01:19 no kids I Isaac Tadé 01:20 no kids. R Robert Nammar 01:20 Yeah, okay. Thank you. G Grant Tyus Sr 01:24 My name is Grant Yyus, born and raised in South Minneapolis area, went to school all the way up to high school, where I attended on Lake Taylor High School and my sister's husband was in the Navy, so I was in Northrop, Virginia. For people I consider my family, don't have to be blood related just those that I have been loyal to and show loyalty to me. I Isaac Tadé 01:48 Beautiful. Um, so can you tell me about how you got involved with Street Voices of Change? Robert Nammar 01:58 Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage 20213 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai R Robert Nammar 01:58 I was homeless for a while, so I kind of followed everybody from where to go and stuff. Tried to fight and figure it out, you know. I Isaac Tadé 02:09 It was word of mouth? R Robert Nammar 02:10 Yeah, word of mouth. I would follow, and follow people, and it became a thing. They said they get a meeting. So I've attended the meeting, and it's all good. I Isaac Tadé 02:27 And you've been here ever since. How many years have you been? R Robert Nammar 02:30 About 10 years, I Isaac Tadé 02:32 okay wow. Awesome! G Grant Tyus Sr 02:36 My name's Tyus. I've been here coming to these meetings for about a year now. There's a brother, Stefan, I used to see him on downtown a lot. I used to be at Catholic Charities Exodus apartments in Augustana, where your school is that, that's where I had received my frostbite, my dad used to be at Augustana nursing home place for people so. Stefan let me know about this meeting, I got two kids to my son's name is Stefan, their middle names. I just been coming in since then. I Isaac Tadé 03:09 That's a blood you're talking about. Grant Tyus Sr 03:10 Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage 20214 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai G Grant Tyus Sr 03:10 Yeah, yeah. I Isaac Tadé 03:11 Wow. Okay, um, I'm gonna ask you about COVID-19. So what would you say life was like before the pandemic, and what's different for you now because of the pandemic. R Robert Nammar 03:23 Yeah, a lot of places were open, you know you can get to stuff and then the pandemic came, then all sudden closing down. Trying to figure out where to go you know. That's what happened. I Isaac Tadé 03:40 That was a difficult time. R Robert Nammar 03:41 Yeah. I Isaac Tadé 03:45 So would you say at this point, things have opened up more, and there are more services for folks who are homeless. R Robert Nammar 03:52 Yeah. Yeah, okay. I Isaac Tadé 03:54 But during the pandemic is mostly closed? R Robert Nammar 03:57 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage 20215 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai G Grant Tyus Sr 04:16 During the whole, before the epidemic, I don't know. I recieved frostbite like in December 2019, and from the result of that, I end up at the Exodus apartments that's part of the Catholic Charities, but like I said, I understand that Augustana was bought out by Catholic Charities, that's where my father used to be at. Before the epidemic I used to umm, I don't know, I was more involved and things but I didn't have an amputation of half of my foot and almost all my toes on the other foot. You know, but I'd met George Floyd too, when I was released from Exodus for like nine days, January 29, 2020. Or no, was it not February? I don't know what day it was, but I was released for like 10 days or a week a little bit over a week and he used to smoke his little K2, so I introduced him to CBD so it's a small world because the place that he got killed that he lost his life in the same place in 1999, when I got taken out the gang from, out of the gang. I was shot up there. So. I Isaac Tadé 05:30 Wow, so what, what was, where were you living during the the pandemic, what was that like for you? G Grant Tyus Sr 05:39 During the pandemic, I was on right there at Catholic Charities Exodus apartments that's right downtown in Minneapolis. I Isaac Tadé 05:46 Okay. Yeah. G Grant Tyus Sr 05:47 It was chaotic because there's a lot of different things going on people dealing with their frustrations and whatnot. The best way they knew how I guess you know I have family members, that's part of George Floyd Memorial. Guapa, my older cousin and Reginald Ferguson, down there, they're trying to do something different. There's not a lot of resources as far as people on to relieve their pain and housing and different stuff that's been destroyed, but there's not doing that in North none of the properties and stuff so. It's just a lot of things going on to that's like the ripple effect, it's a flame that keeps going. I Isaac Tadé 06:25 Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage 20216 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Wow. Okay, thank you. Um, so you would say that some of those things that occurred during the pandemic, lack of resources are still happening now? G Grant Tyus Sr 06:36 Absolutely. I Isaac Tadé 06:37 Yeah. So you haven't seen it getting much better? G Grant Tyus Sr 06:40 No because a lot of people that are preyed upon are the first people. It's not an epidemic or could it be not you have to talk to them people personally or just emotionally scarred about on different things that we live in every day, you know, and these are resources that are available. I don't think they've been dispersed enough because a lot of places are desimate, they're empty or whatnot, and then there's people that can utilize that space as you know and they've said, you know, it's gonna be even more so people that's gonna be homeless, you know, they always got to increase because people usually living paycheck to paycheck, you know, if they aint got their own career got some type of way to make funding and, you know, in all these empty places can be utilized, you know, whether it's GRH where it's 934 936 a month where the government is paying or caddy program which I've been in since December where I've been preyed upon more than anybody I know and I'm the one that put them together. But it's just all these empty places I and all these people out here, that's all suffering and they shouldn't have to. I Isaac Tadé 07:49 So, tell me what a caddy program is G Grant Tyus Sr 07:52 Caddy waiver program is for a lot of people have vulnerabilities like me, whether it's mental or physical which I have both. And based on your like income they'll help you with housing just like the GRH program I was at a Catholic Charities. I Isaac Tadé 08:05 Okay, okay, and you're saying that there just needs to be more of those types of programs Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage 20217 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai G Grant Tyus Sr 08:09 Absolutely because there's all kinds of places that are landlords that might just be struggling with their properties where they can utilize these type of programs I had a property paid off. I Isaac Tadé 08:20 Yeah. Um. The next question is about your outlook on life. How has your outlook on life changed because of the pandemic. R Robert Nammar 08:37 I'm down on rent. I rent. And I'm starting to get, you know what to call it, I tried to get my payment. Direct, what you call it I Isaac Tadé 08:53 direct payment, R Robert Nammar 08:54 no, or that stimulus. Yeah, that 12 houndred dollars. I get the other stuff, they mailed it to me. They've mailed, and I got that. 12 houndred, boom! Come up, they issued it to an account. And I don't know what account. And they said they sent a card I don't see no card. So I got to go through that, things find it to find money. So that's what I've been going through. I Isaac Tadé 09:28 Has it changed the way that you see life. R Robert Nammar 09:32 life. See, like, I can't get nowhere. Because the dang pandemic. Yeah, I can't move, I can't do nothing, You know, Isaac Tadé 09:47 Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage 20218 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 09:47 and so that that's you're saying that's directly because of the pandemic? R Robert Nammar 09:51 Yeah. I Isaac Tadé 09:53 Right. With the struggle that you just had trying to get your stimulus check. R Robert Nammar 09:56 Yeah, yeah, bought me a TV, you know, instead of paying rent, but uh, I'm not inspecting that, I mean I'm expecting, I'm expecting the pandemic, sort of money for that I Isaac Tadé 10:09 the stimulus check R Robert Nammar 10:14 Yeah. So how would you say that, Oh, I think things probably for me like, when I'm staying. I'm staying next Exodus apartments for Catholic Charities apartments since December, 18, 2019 all the way to December the first 2020 where moved in to Open Hearts, LLC 44th and Park, I was receiving on level three and four care, Exodus apartments, and after I had this assessment for the caddy program I was told I was supposed to still be receiving the least equal amount of care or higher care since I moved into this open heart place but I've been, I haven't received nothing at all, you know I've been fending, to fend for myself had to go to food shelves and different things had to put a camera in my room because people going in and out of my room violating my space, you know, and I don't see all people as the same, but I am a victim of sexual assault by a cop in 2009 but I put my ex to school for law enforcement. Because I believe in doing the right thing, you know, and, but what the epidemic going on, is like a lot of people take advantage of your vulnerability see as as a way to prey upon you instead of a way to help you, you know, but I take that as far as I do, I try to do the opposite of what, what I get, you know saying if I don't like to be hit I don't hit I never discipline my kids that were never so I like to be out there helping others with the same situation I'll probably get the opposite up. Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage 20219 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 11:48 Wow. Wow. So it sounds like you're extremely resilient. For all of the things that you too have have been through through the pandemic, and you know you're still putting your best foot forward, G Grant Tyus Sr 12:01 or half a foot! I Isaac Tadé 12:05 Right! Yes sir, yes sir. So, What would you say has brought you hope through this time what what lifts you up, what keeps you going? R Robert Nammar 12:19 These meetings that, I mean, going to the streets. The streets, what's the go, I Isaac Tadé 12:28 Street voices. R Robert Nammar 12:29 It's streeth voice, yeah, yeah, you know, at least we can get some tokens. That's it. Yeah. G Grant Tyus Sr 12:41 What keeps me going is my faith formost, you know. Oh, my kids. I'm supposed to be in a wheelchair, I only used to walker or when it's absolutely necessary because I wanted them never had to see me as crippled as I am or whatnot, you know. And as far as helping others, I'd rather be able to help somebody else even though I don't receive help without looking for anything in return, you know, and just, just, just realize that life's about. You got free will, you got a choice of whatever you do, when you wake up in the morning, you know, even if the person had a gun to my head I never got backed off from doing the right thing and not being there for my kids. I just realized that I do go out at all, you know, this is just my personal fulfillment in it, God has always made a way, you know, so I try to do the best by him I possibly can and, and just keep faith and that and that alone. Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral History Page 2021 10 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 13:37 Yeah, grateful, grateful. So in the summer 2020 the movement against racism had Minneapolis in the epicenter, with the George Floyd murder. Um, can you describe your experience living in Minneapolis, St Paul area during that time, what was that like for you, R Robert Nammar 14:00 The pandemic was a theme. So, you keep, had to abide by the rules, you know, you go through the motions. But a lot of stuff, closed down. And they came in, you cant even get nothing, you know. And now, they open back up. Some now they open, we are trying to get they're trying to figure out what's going on here, you know? that's it. G Grant Tyus Sr 14:35 Yeah. Like I said I'll shut up again. Back in 99, right down 38th and Chicago. That's where George Floyd got killed, I was born and raised there, you know? And just with everything going on when things are going on. Usually I'll find stuff on Facebook you know and face all day as your face I buy the watch unit on the book, you know, my 10 year old daughter had to tell me that. So I usually, I can see the pain in people's eyes or motions that go on through by sometimes it just bringing up old wounds but sometimes people are taking advantage of the same situation and becoming destroyed in this city or state that was born and raised in and that aint right. If you don't like pain, you shouldn't do painful things that are inflicted on others. In a lot of people like he was saying they'll work their whole life to earn a way or make a way and a lot of these just scored some things that never to be replaced. Just like the healing process. Once you lose something you can't put no bandaid on it you know what I'm saying. I Isaac Tadé 15:42 You can't bring back human life. G Grant Tyus Sr 15:43 No, absolutely not. I lost my mom and my sister, my mom and I was nine and my sister when I was 17 So R Robert Nammar 15:51 I lost my dad in 88, and my mom and 96. Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral History Page 2021 11 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 16:00 Wow, thank you for sharing. And you said you've a new George Floyd personal. G Grant Tyus Sr 16:04 Yeah, I just saw him, he used to smoke some of that deuce, I smoke that k2 stuff and I was thinking I was making crazy, mad put GPS on my phone I stay right across the street, I'm late, and I couldn't find my house and now I stay right across the street. But I have some CBD I told him you know, why don't you try some of this, we were always making fun, I had my feet then , but they were some stinky little things. To clean the shower whenever it is CBD. So I got to meet him personally. Even though I was even not even supposed to have left Exodus, I had two quarter or two statements from the doctor saying I wasn't supposed to be left in the cold, or whatever. So that's why when the Bill of Rights came to Street Voices of Change like, think it's rule 23 or 24, I wrote down that part. That a person should never had to leave this place not a shelter but we look at a place, a person can call home, you know, she never have to be thrown out in streets. When the world is for everybody, you know, a person should be comfortable wherever that they're not preyed upon. Yeah. R Robert Nammar 17:13 like, like you get this. Like, what is this, I Isaac Tadé 17:19 yeah, an interview R Robert Nammar 17:20 Interview yeah you know, that's cool. I'm glad you give voice and be heard, I Isaac Tadé 17:29 Well you, you people are the people who have lived these experiences, and and I've lived them so wholeheartedly, right, and so a part of this project is to amplify what you have to say, because we think that's so important. So thank you for being here. Thanks again. Um, and then so is what is there. Excuse me. Is there anything else that you want people to know or remember 30 years from now, about your experience, or other people's experiences being homeless during this period of time. Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral History Page 2021 12 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai G Grant Tyus Sr 18:11 I've been like, with Katie, I've been in a steady group for the encampment. I'll be in a lot of different places where people don't have nothing but they're making the best out of what they got, you know. If we was all together, you know like in like the ideal world, it was you know, instead of looking at division or whatnot, and we can satisfy everybody about humanity, you know, not nothing based on your religion, lack of religion, color, nothing like that. If it's about humanity, the world would be a better place you know , you only got one life to live now so and it's a difference between living in that system. I Isaac Tadé 18:46 So you'd say, what people got to take away from this situation from this moment of time is to live in unity and not be so divided, I think a lot of times in this society we find reasons to be against each other. R Robert Nammar 19:05 Something about black folks, you know, get together and talk to us all, G Grant Tyus Sr 19:10 There's only one race, the human race R Robert Nammar 19:12 yes G Grant Tyus Sr 19:12 And so people gotta stop putting ourselves in the box. I Isaac Tadé 19:17 Celebrate our differences, R Robert Nammar 19:18 yeah, Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral History Page 2021 13 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 19:20 Yeah, that's that's beautiful. Um, let me see here. If you could ask to work on something if you could ask people to work on something, or to get involved in an issue, what would that be, is there something that people hearing this could help with, where do you think people like me should be more involved? R Robert Nammar 19:44 With this, with the streets, you know, the Street Voices. so you can hear what's going on. Hey, it's rough out there, G Grant Tyus Sr 19:58 That different individuals like us that's out there disabled. Um, probably be them eyes and ears that most to people aren't able to experience, you know, be able to go different places but most people have a time limit where they're not able to you know? Even at the George Floyd, those people that I grew up with their parents or whatnot their kids out there homeless and then living in places where they fit for animals to live in and nowadays resources available, what, how is the pain being, not, not consumed, you know, if it's just like on fire being put on it, you know, or gasoline because nothing being done that like being overlooked. R Robert Nammar 20:39 I was going with the lady one time, she had kids and stuff. Police killed her son over north, remember that? Tycel Nelson. I Isaac Tadé 20:53 What was the name again? R Robert Nammar 20:54 Tycel Nelson, he's the first one to get. I mean, that got killed by the police. And then George Floyd, you know, everybody, you know, all that's happening in the city, you know. I Isaac Tadé 21:10 So, um, some of the issues that it sounds like you're bringing up is like violence that we Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral History Page 2021 14 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai need to be aware of and then just more people, more people being aware of homelessness. Thank you. Um, just a few more questions about health. So what would you say that you need to be healthy? R Robert Nammar 21:35 I got, I got health. I'm healthy, because I get two, I get a VA, and I got regular insurance. Yeah they keep me going though. And I thank God for that. G Grant Tyus Sr 22:04 If I had a choice, I would have a different service provider way at place the place I live, you know, because all they do is run the service. And that definitely ain't doing anything, that they're supposed to whatever or claim to do. Other than that, probably for a while, it's like a home project anyone is supposed to have when they gone to zero. R Robert Nammar 22:30 All right. Sixty years old so man, I've been through a lot. I Isaac Tadé 22:37 Oh yeah, I'm sure, R Robert Nammar 22:40 When I was in the army, they did, they sabotaged me, you know. I Isaac Tadé 22:46 What do you mean by that R Robert Nammar 22:48 I mean, you know, the dude they come, he came to the... I had a stroke so... I Isaac Tadé 22:59 Oh, okay. Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral History Page 2021 15 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai R Robert Nammar 23:00 We came to the, the guard shack and there was a guard right? This guy he started some stuff with me and, you know, and I almost went into it right with him. And I quit. Then I went to the, to the barraks. And, you know, I went AWOL. They had me go, going AWOL and stuff, dude considered... He threatened me, you know, G Grant Tyus Sr 23:34 You done left base and just went to the barraks? R Robert Nammar 23:37 I left base. I left, left, went home, came home, you know, that was down in Texas. Yeah, I went home and then came back, they put me out. And then I've been going through shit ever since. I Isaac Tadé 23:53 Right. And that's why having access to these medical centers is important for you. Yeah, to stay healthy. Yeah, yeah. Um, next question is have you met with the nurses at Central Health Commons. And then, do you have feedback for them. R Robert Nammar 24:12 Yes, they good, they good people. I see. I see they come in. Soak your feet and everything, give you what want you know, it's good. Yeah. G Grant Tyus Sr 24:21 I want my feet soaked. R Robert Nammar 24:23 Yeah, I had a bad toe, toenails kept on going over, you know. They clipped that sucker for me and everything. I Isaac Tadé 24:34 Right, they fixed you up. Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral History Page 2021 16 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai R Robert Nammar 24:35 Yeah, I got diabetes so... G Grant Tyus Sr 24:39 this is done right here? R Robert Nammar 24:40 Yeah, well, I Isaac Tadé 24:41 Yeah, yeah right around the corner. Right. Yeah. Okay, you'll have to pull up on Monday. Now you know, now you know, that's great. Um, okay, so then I guess the next question is do you have any feedback for like health commons, is there anything that we can do better? Is there anything missing? R Robert Nammar 25:09 Nothing I see. G Grant Tyus Sr 25:11 Okay, so that's on Mondays? I Isaac Tadé 25:13 Yeah Mondays and Thursdays. R Robert Nammar 25:14 Yeah, Mondays and Thursday. G Grant Tyus Sr 25:16 Yeah, see that's that one she was talking about Robert Nammar 25:20 Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral History Page 2021 17 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai R Robert Nammar 25:20 my feet is important. Yeah, I have to get them checked and make sure there aint soars. I Isaac Tadé 25:31 Okay, so no feedback right now. R Robert Nammar 25:34 Nope. I Isaac Tadé 25:34 Okay. And then we're just about to be done, but is there anything else that you'd like to say before we finish up. R Robert Nammar 25:41 I thank God because you're around, you know, peoples, getting to know people, G Grant Tyus Sr 25:47 Yeah I appreaciate y'all young individuals doing what you need to in life, for real. R Robert Nammar 25:52 Get some, get some. I mean help, you know, we need help. You could be like my son in the studio, rapping or something. At least you're doing something for the cause. I Isaac Tadé 26:06 Well, we're trying to thank you, and it wouldn't be possible without your voices, and so on behalf of Augsburg Health Commons, you know, we just really appreciate it and appreciate you sharing what you have to offer because your experience is so valuable, R Robert Nammar 26:22 because I belong to a dignity center. They come over there they volunteered and and stuff, you know, people from Augustana, okay. Yeah. Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral History Page 2021 18 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 26:33 Yeah, and you appreciate it. R Robert Nammar 26:35 Yeah, yeah. I Isaac Tadé 26:36 Well, it's a beautiful thing to give and receive right Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's about it for today. This concludes our interview. Thank you so much again for taking the time and for sharing your stories and insights with me. I appreciate it. Thank you. Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral History Page 2021 19 of 19 Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Title: Street Voices of Change: Transcript of Oral History Interview with Stephen LeSure, 2021
Collection: Augsburg Central Health Commons Oral History Project
Search Result: Stefan 2021: Part 1 Thu, 7/29 10:25AM 4:37 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, opinionated, grandfather, oral history project, chicago, understand, surrendered, streets, east st louis, central, people, haywood, commons, lutheran, oral health, educated, spirit, folk, sociology, shared SPEAKERS S...
Show more Stefan 2021: Part 1 Thu, 7/29 10:25AM 4:37 SUMMARY KEYWORDS augsburg, opinionated, grandfather, oral history project, chicago, understand, surrendered, streets, east st louis, central, people, haywood, commons, lutheran, oral health, educated, spirit, folk, sociology, shared SPEAKERS Stefan, Isaac Tadé I Isaac Tadé 00:03 Thank you for joining us today for this oral health, oral history project for the Augsburg University Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tadé, I'm a student intern with Augsburg Central Health Commons, could you please introduce yourself for the recording. S Stefan 00:17 Yes, my name is Mr Stefan Lesure. I Isaac Tadé 00:21 Thank you. And before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed and having this interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public. S Stefan 00:32 Absolutely. Thank you. Isaac Tadé 00:34 Stefan 2021: Part 1 Page 1 of 3 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 00:34 Excellent. All right, So can you tell me about where you grew up, and who you call family. S Stefan 00:39 I grew up in Chicago on the west side of Chicago. My family's from Kansas City, Missouri, Sikeston Haywood city, East St Louis, St Louis. I grew up on the west side of Chicago. So again like I said, it was never my intention to even be here in the state of Minnesota, let alone be houseless I've never in my life been homeless because homelessness is emptiness and I'm not empty at all. I Isaac Tadé 01:14 Yeah, so, okay, who do you call family than? S Stefan 01:18 I call what I call my family is what I call the old spirit. My grandfather's my uncle's my Auntie's and even though they passed away that was always this thing my grandfather, learned me about looking people and eye, he would not even talk to you. If you didn't look him in the eye. You know you was not, he didn't know who you was and he didn't communicate with you, he didn't know how to unless he looked you in the eyes and once he looked you in the eyes, it was just like it was...It was just a totally different person that you saw looking back at you. And I've kept that old spirit in my in my heart and in my mind for years. I'm a writer. I had over 180,000 pages of history of a degree in sociology. I'm also an educator in the streets with 54 years of lived experience and in the streets of Chicago, and 12 in the streets of Minneapolis. I Isaac Tadé 02:24 Yes sir. So it sounds like you gravitate towards your elders towards people who have come before you and who have shared their insights their experiences with you. S Stefan 02:34 Absolutely, it's called folk ways and folk tales, to be able to sit down with the young black man and understand how he has to be educated, not how he wants to be educated, how he has to be educated. The only true form of education for black man in this, it, it basically is not existed in the world we live in today, and that's a shame. You know it's really a Stefan 2021: Part 1 Page 2 of 3 Transcribed by https://otter.ai shame. I Isaac Tadé 03:09 Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Um, the next question would be can you tell me more about how you got involved with Street Voices of Change. S Stefan 03:20 After being in state of Minnesota for three years, lost my job, lost my apartment. And I understood that if I surrendered and became a part of the establishment that I can never again hold my head up. So a friend of mine had brought me to the church when he was the old church. And I said, and one day and it kinda was crazy, because at that time when we first started out, everybody was opinionated so you really had to ask patience for people telling you "man I've been at it for years," but over the course of five years, we've learned one another, and we've learned the needs in certain cases, what causes those needs to be and what causes the problem to be Street Voices, Central Lutheran, say, I have since day one I considered it to be my sacred place of peace. Stefan 2021: Part 1 Page 3 of 3 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Stefan 2021: Part 2 Thu, 7/29 10:30AM 55:25 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, call, streets, minnesota, ai, state, education, situation, pandemic, apartment, homeless, community, young black man, world, stay, son, black, involved, understand, churches SPEAKERS Stefan, Isaac Tadé S Stefan 00:01 Central Lutheran is my sacred place of peace, five years, if I'm not if I'm in this state I'm in Central Lutheran on Thursday morning there's no other place to I'd be. And that is a true commitment to a situation that's growing in a different directions but mentally, people like becoming to understand that the burden of proof is not on the state it's on the individual, starting with the individual. If you in the state of Minnesota don't have a clear cut agenda, you will become a foreign of its fast pace. And that fast paced is basically no return on that. I Isaac Tadé 00:56 So that's how you got involved, you wanted to stay ahead of that pace, S Stefan 01:00 you decide on the natural educator. My father was the head of the Kansas City Missouri literacy program and my first book that I wrote, stating that I wanted to be that same individual because it was all natural for me. I'm the only black man in American history, to ever be called by two presidents to ever create a program called Community Beautification that would have closed down to Illinois state prisons, until the police department figured out that they didn't want me involved because they had a different agenda. Under the rules of displacement. Now it's, you know, I'm here today and I speak Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 1 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai to David Hewitt about this every day and every week and every chance I get about people. There's no way possible that you can uproot 5 million black folks who stay in the country, and 5 million other foreigners who come into the country, get an apartment, and just leave them to hang in a system that's what I call tedious and meticulous, a process of dehumanization that has no return on punishing. Thank you. I Isaac Tadé 02:29 Thank you for sharing that. Thank you. So what can you tell me about life before the pandemic, and what is different for you now, because a COVID-19? S Stefan 02:42 Before the pandemic, that was, that was a lot of hope, a lot of trust a lot of faith building we went from four meetings a week back down to none, and then we opened up with 10 people. And the saddest part about it is to see that the African American community, basically had nowhere else to turn, but to those churches who would open their doors in the homeless community because I don't care what you say man, if it wasn't for Katie and them and the nurses, nurses were the first persons who got me a bed when I was having, I had to have surgery. They got me into an apartment, it wasn't the case manager it was the homeless nurse. You know, and ever since I put back whenever I can, and brought a greater understanding to what I consider to be a housing situation, and a situation of people who, Minnesota is a, is a very dangerous state. I'll say that because it affords you, and allows you to be comfortable, when you really shouldn't be comfortable. It allows you to become content, and you really shouldn't be content. In that sense for a young, an uneducated black man that's a dangerous, dangerous environment to be in. And I've watched this situation for 12 years just grow and grow and grow. Nobody has one time and for the last five years I beat education all the way from Street Voices to Change to the capital. There's no way around it, you know, you can you can bow you can you can build a million houses right here right now. And they'll tear them down in two days, because they're not educated. And they have this hate in their heart because they're in the streets at night, and nobody understands that. You think because you gave him an apartment, that doesn't fulfill the void that he hasn't had any love and compassion, respect and any honor. That's what's important to me. So I continue to do what I do I get in the streets every day, five days a week, and communicate with people. I've put a few young kids in college, and they've come through and it was like, bro, I've got a few kids back in the house with their momma. Back letting them know man, the power of surrender, let them go home with some flowers, wash the dishes and take out the garbage, and that you ain't going to smoke in the house. That's all she asks! That's a roof over your head, until you can do better. And it seems to be that it's Minnesota's is just conflict orientated. Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 2 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai It's like a step by step process. Once you get St. Olaf card, you're considered non existent. You know, they don't respect or honor education, intelligence, or any of that. It's all about getting $1 immediately. And that's the most dangerous setup for young parents, for children for your community, because these are the things that are transferred, whether we want them to be or not we can have the best intentions for our children. But if you have them among toxic waste, nine times out of 10. It will suffer from it. I Isaac Tadé 06:55 And is that what you see manifest during the pandemic? S Stefan 06:59 Pandemic was most more frightening than that, it created a lot of withdrawals, created a lot of isolation. It created a lot of separation with family. Fear is the most powerful tool in the state of Minnesota. I'm afraid that I'm gonna lose something that I really don't have anyway. You have to have something to lose. You ain't got something... Right, you don't have nothing. And that's what homelessness is, that's what that statement is homeless. Homelessness is simply means you void of any substance. I'm full of life. I Isaac Tadé 07:52 right S Stefan 07:53 full of life I seek the good and all things, no matter what. I Isaac Tadé 07:57 And that's, and that's why through the pandemic. Well, even before pre pandemic, you've made it a mission to fulfill though that hierarchy of needs right first of all, first of all you need clothing, water, shelter, and then after that, you know those things you can start to feel those social needs, and an education and that's what you've brought to the table. S Stefan 08:20 It's a real strange situation to see our young black men and women's who are only motivated by music and motivated by material things. And everybody becomes a victim, under those circumstances, what do you believe it or not. Strangest thing I've ever seen in Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 3 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai the state of Minnesota as a young gentleman who had been homeless. We've been in the streets begging. finally got a Social Security finally got his apartment. And he took these people home because he lived with him in the street. Four days after he had this apartment, they tore the apartment up, got him kicked out. And he's still homeless to this day. And that just let me know that there's no boundaries. And if you deal with people who don't have boundaries, they have some problem. That's why it's so important that I have rules. Rules I have laws I have aspirations, that must be, not just for the sake of me, but for the sake of our community of what's left of our community. It's, I don't even know how to say it anymore. My grandfather used to tell me that "true beauty never shrinks nor does it wear thin. But the truth of that has to be in your spirit may not be the next man spirit has to be in yours." In order for you to see clear go forward. And that's been the joy of being here, to be able to call pastor Melissa and say hey you know I aint feeling this one. And she would sit down and actually tell you, "me neither. But here's what you have to do, not what you can do, not what you want to do, what you have to do in order to get back to what you..." I Isaac Tadé 10:50 Your, your best self. S Stefan 10:52 Thank you. That's what I've, that's the approach I've taken. Never once considered myself homelessness. The strangest thing in the world when I was staying at the Salvation Army, I have what you call the internal alarm clock. I go to bed at nine o'clock but I'm up at 3:30. Doesn't give if I'm drunk or what, I'm up by 330. And I got up every morning and I cleaned the two washrooms. Cleaning the dining room. A after a year and a half into this. I was told that "we don't want to going, we don't want you cleaning up the washroom, makes our employees look bad." Well you crazy, the employee look bad because the washroom looks bad! That's why I'm cleaning. I Isaac Tadé 11:43 and that's the way you feel you can contribute S Stefan 11:44 Ain't a doubt about it. But the beauty of that is, everybody didn't learn from those few who did learn from it, when they got the apartments they understood the value of keeping things cleanly, keeping your associates in the streets, and giving yourself at least 30 days Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 4 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai to acclimate to your own room. I get to see feedback every day in the streets, there's, I don't think there's 20 people that walk downtown, on a day to day basis that I've ever met, before seen before, I've spoken to all the ID, all the police downtown all the security downtown. And nobody, and this is shame, this is the shameful part. Nobody wants to get involved. I keep hearing that same old, same old song. They don't care. I Isaac Tadé 12:49 who's they? S Stefan 12:50 the people who you see as different from who you are because you work a job because you got an apartment and who are in the streets, sit on corners who drink or smoke, or steal. But what we fail to realize is that was transferred to them they were born into that. I Isaac Tadé 13:12 They're born into that mentality raised in it S Stefan 13:14 Indeed! I mean yo mama smoke crack she got 45 guys coming in and out the back door. Well, let's keep it real, this, this frustrates a young black man, and he becomes so abusive behind that because he become gaurded, he don't want to tell nobody that he was broken by what he seen from his mother. So he treats every woman like she's broke. And that's, that's the part that we have to get out of the only way we can get out of it (*knocks on table), "Hey are you doing?" You have to see something different, in order to know somethings different. You have to be consistent power with that. That's why Street Voices says, we decided that we'll wait till the meetings over when we have a debrief and then you can say what you like. But in during these meeting, These are rules. I Isaac Tadé 14:06 These are the rules you abide by them. S Stefan 14:09 And once you learn that it becomes a valuable situation, then that plays a part in your life you'll see yourself being separated from all the confusion. Another thing about Minnesota. Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 5 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai This is the only group of people in the whole state that's ever mentioned, a power of education, and never asked the question, that's why David Hewitt kept coming back. Why can you go without it? If your son is in steet with a third grade education, his homie got a fifth grade education, homie got a second grade education. Another guy never been in school. What do you think's going to come out of that? That's a disaster waiting to happen. I Isaac Tadé 15:00 Nothing much nothing good Because we went to the challenge game, we enter the rap music that elevates what you think how you feel, our children that become images that they follow. They see you do some, they can't let you out, so they overdo it, and then overdo until somebody else gets hurt to the process. And they become susceptible, like second nature. That's that conflict is in our communities. It's not education, not further progress. You got neighbors who don't even speak to each other. That's what Street Voices wants to get to the point of being able to actually sit you down and show you the difference between one mental mindset and the other mental mindset. The streets make you guarded. You ain't got to do nothing, only see it one time, and when you see it again... It might be too late. S Stefan 16:05 So you need to get involved, overreact and put yourself in a bad situation is acknowledging it running away from it. This is what I don't separate. We young black men don't have the power to courage. Don't do the influences in the streets today, under the drugs that's in the streets today. When you have 13 year old boy telling you he got to have his medicine, you tripping your own ride bruh. What you want to do about your medicine when you get locked up, because it's coming. You keep going in these people's stores, it's coming. And when it comes, you should be grateful that it came like that. And that this often hurts, and we don't, but they don't even fear that no more. You know that's a damn shame, they don't even think scared to die. Living in world is nothing no way, but it's not that. It's that we, it is something that I was deeply thankful for. It's always come back to the part you play before you can see and accept what they did, know why you got involved, yeah. Know why you got involved, right, and once you know that, there's no need to get mad, because you see the part that you play. And that should be a growth process. I have a friend who I had called and asked her that question every night. "What have you learned today, from all of that's been learned you?" Keeping a positive outlook is a must in keeping sanity in this homeless community, because you see some things that just mindblowing. totally mindblowing. Man got mad at the police took off all his cleaning, "so you want to shake me now?" he got on the police guy. I mean this is, where do you go from Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 6 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai that? so you use that as a measuring rod? you can't, you can't use a measuring rod, unless you communicate. Forget what I think, forget what they say. And here's another thing that's the most dangerous thing about Minnesota. They use mental injuries and mental health issues as a problem, and it is come up, murder, murder and murder. Because he had been mental health issues. My thinking is, you acknowledged the fact that he had mental health issues, you bag up to get those who are qualified to deal with that situation, and they don't do that. They won't do that, I Isaac Tadé 16:38 treat it as a health crisis rather than S Stefan 19:14 okay, perfect example when they get to the capitol of the day when the senator was having a meeting, the lady drove up to Capitol step, drove around, drank smoke right there in front of police around it. And then they said well it's a mental health crisis and the brother said "bruh if it had been a black man, you would have drug him out of the car, right there on the spot. You put her in the car with no handcufs come on, didn't do any of that" I Isaac Tadé 19:42 right. S Stefan 19:43 These rules don't apply to certain people in the state. And if I will make a difference in I'm gonna have to be extraordinary patient, I Isaac Tadé 19:56 yes sir. S Stefan 19:58 extraordinarily humble, because I've been had people call me a group of bitches and howlers and I had never been none of that. Where I come from we didn't even allow that. But understanding that if I allow you to pull me off my square and get into what you went to, then I'm the damn fool. Because would you say it didn't leave a scratch or mark on me. Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 7 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Okay, that's how you feel, I can't change that. I Isaac Tadé 20:31 But you choosing to step low at that level, it's your choice. S Stefan 20:35 Right. The choices you make, you have to be conscious of that because you live in in this baby so fast paced, you wouldn't be. It is demonic to see a 12 year old girl, trying to trick a grown man out of some money. And it's, it's the demonic, but it is what it is. If, if I don't get involved then, where else do I go? You get involved on and changing it. Would you accept it and become a part of it? You close your eyes on it, you are a part of it. I Isaac Tadé 21:16 Yes sir, yes sir. S Stefan 21:20 I put a request slip in your box that I have a paper 18 pages long, it's called "A Condensed Product" of 180,000 pages is called critical thinking, writing means stop exchange abruptly like abruptly. But these topics are critical topics. Who are you? Who will you allow yourself to become? What's learned behavior? How culturally conscious are you? What part do you play? And a lot of us don't even think along those lines no more. When the last time you read a book? I Isaac Tadé 22:07 Personally me? S Stefan 22:07 No, I'm saying, the last time you see, you have a few, and here's the sad part. Those who do read in the homeless community, they read out of isolation. They don't read to better hands, better, they read out of isolation, and they don't share nothing that they read. "None of your business that you (*grumbles)..." you know, because it's their entertaiment. It's not something that should be spread around. Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 8 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 22:38 Right. S Stefan 22:39 Our churches have failed in a lot of ways because African American churches because they like to do things their own way, it's about what God said, it's not about walking the walk is about your perception of what this book says istead of doing the basic things, which is allowing the child, be the child to become the adolescent to become the young adult and understanding these processes, and understanding that, especially not black schools. When I growed up we had big kids we after school programs, there was none of that. So, where do you son go after school? If your son, going to school with two phones and a speaker, you think you're going to learn? You can't be your son's friend. You got to be his momma. You know, "my baby. No baby." That aint no baby. That man, six foot 2. 19 years old he aint no kid. But you still buying him $150 Gym shoe. And when you can't buy them, he got no job, no skills where you're going? In street. And that's what they do. 12, 13 years old. Rob and car jacking, with the first time something happens to do so that you know is in the street, "My baby. My baby." Ma'am your baby is not your baby, quit playin with yourself. You need to grow up. I Isaac Tadé 24:26 It's about being honest with the situation, S Stefan 24:29 No doubt about it. When I was growing, if I bought anybody home, my mama went up to her like "Yo, yo, who your mama, where you live at? Matter of fact wait on the porch till I call. That's how crazy my mama was. I Isaac Tadé 24:45 actually to verify. S Stefan 24:49 Well you know your son over here? And you'll see come. So we're with...if I brought you home, and my mamma didn't know your mamma? If I gotta ass whooping, you gotta have a an ass whooping, guarantee. That don't happen no more. "Don't mess with my son." So Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 9 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai we have a lot of things to grow up to. But the one thing I really want to state is there's been what you call a Hocus Pocus, the state of Minnesota. 12 years you 46,000 new housing. Not 1% is low income. No more than 1%. That 1% comes in the suburbs, not in the inner city, so they can take you and throw you out in Coon Rapids, Robbinsdale and Hopkins, but these are 2, 3, 4, 5 different people. It's not a community of people, they don't want to, I don't want that to happen anymore. The only communities is what you call a middle class community, which is a suburb. And Minneapolis has a golden opportunity. No, the African Americans in Minneapolis have a golden opportunity but there's no way you can bring these people together, because everybody has their own agenda. Everybody, the churches, all the black churches have different agendas, going in different directions. All the programs, who get three, $400,000 a year are going in different directions, instead of restoring the arms a unity, come together so first goal is "let's build the building with the apartments, and we can have the programs on display, right here, but it has to be one situation." Your program doesn't have to change. The only thing changes is your trust and respect for the people that you deal with. And that's what we, for some reason we can't seem to bring that together. I Isaac Tadé 27:22 What we lack is some unity. And I think I saw that a lot during the pandemic too, just with leadership across the state across the country, across the world. You know S Stefan 27:33 There was you no... specially the statements so there was no black unity shown there was no groups of black people gathered around giving out information, doing any of that. It was all isolated incident. Churchs were just was trying to hold on to its members. Right, doing all of these solicitations and all of that because you couldn't be in church, right, but it was not a group of people a constituency to say "man as a collective, let's get back out here, and let's reunite our communities." that will be the easiest thing in the world, only two churches and your community. Mean to tell me y'all can't put together one project? I mean to actually... black owned businessman won't even do business for black, black owned landlords won't even rent to black men. So I mean this is an up hilll struggle, and I'm just grateful that I have a conscious mind. To continue forward. I Isaac Tadé 28:34 It's a state of mind. Yes sir Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 10 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai S Stefan 28:41 Not being on never been, never will be homeless. no doubt about it. Yes sir. Yes, I need some help. I aint affraid of that. Aint no getting frustrated, throwing a brick through a window, none of that. You will ask for what you want, and if they don't provide? Patients. Step two, step three, and step four. It's always gonna be a step left though, don't quit, always, always, you can't throw your hands up. I Isaac Tadé 29:22 Speaking of, sorry to interrupt you here. Speaking of that mentality. What has brought you home through this last year? You talking about putting one foot in front of the other what helps you to do that. S Stefan 29:37 The people that I speak to every day in the streets. The mothers who've seen me, I'm glad to talk my son, you know, your inspiration in the streets you know only OG out here, really talks with some good sense. That means a lot because we're in a time and age where the communication game is not about communication is about texting, chat rooms you know hollar back. It's pretend forms, it's always about ducking everybody in the street. It's hard to have a conversation with somebody on the phone you talk to personal phone, he'll text your back "No, I don't feel like that." And that gives you nothing. That gives you no inspiration I come from a family of people from my great grandfather to my father's uncles when you have to sit down, you actually look these people in the eye. You want some help, you have to actually communicate with these people. Right? There was never no aggressive, nothing. This is what you want. This is what you get. I Isaac Tadé 30:58 And so for you it's been the communicate through this last year. Yes sir, especially in such like an isolating time. S Stefan 31:07 Right. That was, that was a time when I think was back in February March when this first pandemic first came down. It was hard to even communicate with people ain't nobody, want to "back up" Isaac Tadé 31:23 Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 11 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 31:23 6 feet S Stefan 31:23 Yeah, it was it was it was a panic situation, especially on the buses. You know how many 911 calls Metro transit had right in the state of Minnesota, about you not being, "you got to have your mask on, or get off the bus." The state is. I'm not going to say the state. The African American communities throughout inner Minneapolis has basically become afraid of one another. What I mean by that is that if you have a neighbor that doesn't trust you, he doesn't respect you because he feels like you are not trustworthy for whatever reasons, that just keeps going down the line and up the block, then your community is following. Because your eyes is not on the community, it's on your neighbor. I Isaac Tadé 32:02 right. S Stefan 32:17 We have to get away from that, learn how to trust again we have to learn how to respect. And that's not the easy thing, you know this sounds easy as I'm saying it's not easy to put into play, right, especially for those kids who really never had no compassion on spending quality time. They mama riding them around in the stroller smoking weed with them, them in a store stealing. You know, I don't know if African Americans understand it, that's the greatest gift we have is our ability to adjust, adapt, but if you're not afforded the opportunity to know what you're adjusting to and what you adapted to. If you just go on along to something that's been second nature in your life for the last 10 years of your life, this why you can't do, how you will afford a child? He set the garage on fire. But you bought him the videos, you you spoiled him, in the end you told him no. That's how you got to that point. You know he was doing good for five or 10 years. Buying him shoes. Now you don't have a job, money funny. You can't do nothing for him. And you can even communicate with it. I Isaac Tadé 34:06 So my next question was going to be about. If people could, if you could ask people to work on something or get involved in an issue, what would that be, and it already. Sounds like you've gotten into that, Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 12 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai S Stefan 34:21 yes, it will be education is the most frightening thing about young African American in the state of Minnesota. They have zero history. Zero history of African Americans. I was trying to explain 1964. They called it a riot. Black Panthers marched on the White House for equality in jobs that summer. And they said, riot. Here, when they went to the Capitol, you knocked the windows out you're went in and killed people. You call that an insurrection. And right after 1964 you call it all out, you said we were militant. That's, militant means that you're dangerous. I Isaac Tadé 35:25 Yes sir, S Stefan 35:25 Insurrection means that it's just organize thing that went wrong. but that's not what happened. I saw what happened, and it's the first time in my life. Fifty-nine years later, I got a chance to see what you call the proud boys, and how y'all truly operate. I Isaac Tadé 35:45 Right. S Stefan 35:46 And I still have a question. If you hadn't been authorization to be here, there was no way in the world you could have drilled all the machines up there to climb up the stairs. No way. So you was authorized. It just didn't turn out right. But that's a lesson for us, as young black men, to know the difference of the treatments that come about because of white privilege, I Isaac Tadé 36:17 and that's about knowing that history. S Stefan 36:21 I mean, Minnesota is a beautiful state. I love to see all colors of people come together. Yeah, but that's the best surface level. Right, right, behind the scenes and there is some Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 13 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai demonic people. I Isaac Tadé 36:38 Just because you have diversity doesn't mean that you have cooperation, you can have tolerance. But that's not on the same level as cooperation, integration, S Stefan 36:50 and that's the new. That's the new form of education that they put towards black people. Let me give you another example, every black man in the country, not just in the state of Minnesota, knows that the state is what you call a free enterprise. So you can get your issue on any corner that you want in this state. And that's their focus. They're not realizing what comes behind the scenes. There's no structure, no order. Then there's chaos. And we have a word about that. My fear for Minnesota is that in the next three years if it doesn't change, it will be the most violent state in this country. No, it will be the most violent state in the country to north, south, northeast Minneapolis, basically a daycare center, where you have all these 250 groups of people that have 250 different ideas. They're going to one in 250 directions, they get the money, like the father program project. You get $10 milion dollars, 90 days later you can't give a guy a bus card you can't buy him shoes when you go get a job. Not a program is working. I Isaac Tadé 38:14 Nope S Stefan 38:15 you have an 85,000 year executive 100,000 executive. But none of this money is come to the table. maybe 10% out of $10 million, hit the street, and the rest was in payroll property. But property that has nothing to do with rehabilitating a mind. You know when you find a father who's willing to get back to being a father, now that a hell of a thing. When you kind of lose yourself and think you can become a great hustler in the world, you realized when you go to jail and you realize that sitting for me it was a night isn't worth it. So I got to get back to doing what I'm doing. And once you get back there, the help that they say is there, there's not. It's not that. You get up yourself stuck out there trying to raise three boys, is not a joke. Especially you ain't got no job. It's not a joke, right, you ain't got no skills. You don't think you have is the learned behavior that you've learned in the streets. Let's not a provider, that's a death wish. Yeah, and that's why it's so important that we reiterate, education, history, not on the level of being man, back to what I see, what have I Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 14 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai learned today, all that. That's a constant evaluation of everyday assessed reflection. Thank you. If you lose one day. Don't be ashamed, not I Isaac Tadé 40:14 to put your pride aside, S Stefan 40:19 have pride? I don't play with that, that's a dangerous thing. No, not in these streets. And then it's, they can't let go. I mean you can get into the smallest thing but you can't let go. I Isaac Tadé 40:38 I've seen it. It's real. I'm gonna just ask you a few more questions, geared for towards health, the bottom there. What would you say that you need for health, as you define it, what's helped for you and what you need to have good health? S Stefan 40:56 good health? I need to be able to get to the store do my own shopping, cooking, my own create my own exercise program. through various question asking various situations. We'll start with, with mental health. you aint thinking right, if you ain't feeling good mentally. nine times out of 10, you wont feel good, spiritually, feel physically. And that's the way I look at it, I have to, I mean there's no such thing is not able. It's no such thing as bad. And if you feel like that, maybe you need to sit down and re evaluate the situation, because there's no such thing as that. We got here we can get back. I believe that and if I didn't believe that I wouldn't be out in the streets every day trying to convey that message with other people. I have this...It's not a poem, its a statement, says "true gratitude is that which emanates within us and pushes it's way out of us to shine in full view." And in doing that, it's a genuis quality that you build upon on the day to day basis. I don't want to make it seem like this is crazy, crazy, cause it's not. You have to really do some growing up, really really growing up to actually get past this situation to not be frustrated not just want to surrendered. And I mean it seriously, man, wake up in the shelter you ain't got no shoes, man you got shoes. You know I'm saying you come in the washroom and you, and you hang your shirt up to wash up, that man come in, take your shirt and put it on infront of you. You have a choice here. You either will get fustrated till you come about my shirt, which will possibly be a problem because you got an issue. So now I got to go to man, to say Man, look man, but man, just pick the shirt, and I ain't going to trip. I just need overshare to like get to target man, you have to you have to you have to be willing to Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 15 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai make those sacrifices. If you're not, you'll find yourself in all kinds of conflicts and so I Isaac Tadé 44:01 yes sir, S Stefan 44:03 We have to have, not only do you have to want something, you have to understand what it takes to get there. And sometimes it's not pleasant it is not easy. I Isaac Tadé 44:15 Thank you. Yes, thank you for sharing that. Um, the next question is, have you met the nurses at Central. And then, or, you know, Central Health Commons. Is there any feedback that you have for them. S Stefan 44:30 Oh wow. Yes, I've met the nurses at Central. We went out on a few runs to the homeless encampments. We even found ourselves in a curious situation. And it turned out to be a truly education situation and thanking Katie for that, I had to tip my hat for that. And I've also had to deal with the nurses here at Central Lutheran in personal situations. Be able to start to my blood pressure, and that got so high that I'm actually scared to go to that hospital. I mean which still don't seem like it makes good sense but I refuse to leave here too! so it all turned out to be in the best interest because after she did what she did, I had to actually go to the hospital. And if she hadn't have, my thing is that if I hadn't been here. That's my concern if I hadn't been here, then what may have happened if I was in the streets? Somebody might have left me on the bench. "Oh he drunk. He high. See his eyes." Maybe maybe got kidney problems, maybe I Isaac Tadé 45:56 could be a number of thing S Stefan 45:58 there's a number of things but for you to just look at me and measure me. You don't know. So that's what I'm aiming to really try and educate us and bring this back to our point where we can transfer. Since displacement. There's been nothing. We're able to transfer to Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 16 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai our childrens. Our homes are gone, our communities are going. We become frustrated at all the wrong things so we become frustrated and want to know. I Isaac Tadé 46:39 Take your time. S Stefan 46:44 It would be the simplest thing in the world, I have a program I really like to run across the North Minneapolis is just a six blocks program a piece where you people have all these homes and you're not willing to put in 20, 30 dollars a month, buy these properties in your community. And whatever you use for daycare center after school programs peace houses...But in order to do that you have to bring interest to the community. And that's hard. That's the saddest part about North Minneapolis, South Minneapolis is halfway there. North Minneapolis is like...frightening to where you can't trust neighborhood that you live next to 20 years You know, I Isaac Tadé 47:45 take your time. You want me to get you a water? S Stefan 48:01 I'm not a resident, let's say, a willing resident of Minneapolis. But since I'm here. This is like desire to understand the true needs of what has to be done not what I want to do. What has to be done for us to be able to pass that along. I want to give you a copy of this excerpt to this book that I wrote. It's called The Ghetto That Lived in my Head, I Isaac Tadé 48:39 That'd be incredible. Thank you. S Stefan 48:40 Yes. The Augsburg college right over here,man. I Isaac Tadé 48:47 Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 17 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Yes sir, S Stefan 48:47 but you will be going to stay in Minnesota? I Isaac Tadé 48:49 yes sir. S Stefan 48:50 Leave you information with Pastor Melissa. I Isaac Tadé 48:53 Thank you, S Stefan 48:53 so I'd get a copy of this. It's the education that 90% of African men...It's not in the schools, language itself is kind of frightening because it's not these terms not used anymore. It's simply important education is no longer important to most inner city kids, you have your young black man whose family's fortunate enough to grow up in a suburb, you might get a chance to play baseball. Maybe the chance to play professional basketball. Might even get the chance to play hockey. I Isaac Tadé 49:49 Right. S Stefan 49:52 In the Northside Southside? It's not happening. Because they're going to pull you down. I mean to see a young black man who spoke. I'll give you a perfect example, friend of mine, stays on Broadway. Son got drafted to the NBA, he was shot in the back of the head here on Lyndale Park, out of Walgreens. And guess who did it? you wouldn't believe Isaac Tadé 50:21 Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 18 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 50:21 Somebody real close. S Stefan 50:23 His best friend. That is the saddest shit. To struggle to achieve that. Somebody just wiped it out, like it don't mean nothing. that's what, that's where we at. And that's why I'm committed to making a difference. You don't have the finances, you don't have the actual people but you do have the heart, and your courage. So we sit like pastor Melissa say, watch your eyes, not yet, we aint got time yet. You get enough people around you, and this is a slow process. Yes, to get people like David Hewett involved, Trish Stature involved and other politicians involved, then you can throw him in jail something put something together. I've been, hawking David for the last two years about that, education, education, education, Youth Link won't get involved anymore. Then they call people over to their office, you follow this. When you get when you get through leaving, they give you 12 tokens. Now you tell me what youth is not showing up for 12 tokens you bought him a blunt. You bought him a bag and a blunt. I Isaac Tadé 52:12 right, S Stefan 52:13 well let's keep it real. You asked him to show up and sign a few papers, so you can get the next dollar, but they're not pushing back anything. They're just showing up for the tokens. You're not asking you to sign these two papers how you still ain't got no house still ain't got no education. And when we went to Youth Link, in terms of what you're not shelters are 24 hours now. How many people can you think you could get signed up for GED program? College program, a trade school? And they didn't even get involved! Because it's too complex. Why would we have to do that, we just get them to sign this, they want to do something they can do it on their own. people providng them the 12 tokens. and are you crazy? because that's how it go. Yeah, that's true. Okay. I Isaac Tadé 53:12 Yes, thank you for sharing all that. Very very insightful. Um, do you have any feedback for health commons, is there anything that we could be doing better. Is there anything that's missing from health commons? Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 19 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai S Stefan 53:28 Oh, absolutely not. No. Okay, let's see. As I said, if it wasn't for the homeless, before, not even here in central Lutheran I'm talking about the Dignity Center and other places, who went out on a limb for me, I wouldn't have been able to have a place to stay during my surgery in my healing process. If it wasn't for homeless kind soulsm and Katie's been 1000 ever since. I Isaac Tadé 54:00 Yeah, yeah. Wow, gratefulness grateful. That's incredible. I'm so happy that they were there for you S Stefan 54:08 yes indeed You happy? i was grateful. I Isaac Tadé 54:11 That's right. Well I think that concludes our interview for today. Thank you for so much for taking the time to share, share your story, your insight your words of advice. Your thoughts S Stefan 54:24 I'll get that for you and Katie. The first one is Hidden In Plain Sight. Okay. You have to kind of read paragraph by paragraph, cause like I say it's critical thinking I Isaac Tadé 54:39 dig it S Stefan 54:40 and abrupt writing. The writing change but the mental mind has to stay focused on the subject as a whole. Each one of those subjects changed. So, you will have to keep reading then making the subject matter. I would really like to do what I call the speaking thing to where as though, you can actually expound on a topic. As you, as you read that. But I can't seem to find that platform. You found one. Isaac Tadé 55:21 Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 20 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 55:21 That's fine. Thank you very much. Stefan 2021: Part 2 Page 21 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Title: Street Voices of Change: Transcript of Oral History Interview with Tyra Thomas, 2021
Collection: Augsburg Central Health Commons Oral History Project
Search Result: Tyra Thomas 2021 Thu, 7/29 12:23PM 25:36 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, pandemic, justice, happening, community, floyd, affordable housing, george, street, folks, voices, struggles, commons, stay, nurse, grew, augsburg, salvation army, minneapolis, heard SPEAKERS Tyra, Isaac Tadé I Isaac T...
Show more Tyra Thomas 2021 Thu, 7/29 12:23PM 25:36 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, pandemic, justice, happening, community, floyd, affordable housing, george, street, folks, voices, struggles, commons, stay, nurse, grew, augsburg, salvation army, minneapolis, heard SPEAKERS Tyra, Isaac Tadé I Isaac Tadé 00:01 Okay, here we go. Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the Augsburg University Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tade, I'm a student intern with Augsburg Central Health commons, could you please introduce yourself for the recording. T Tyra 00:19 My name is Tyra Thomas. I Isaac Tadé 00:22 Thank you, Tyra. And before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed, and having that interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public. T Tyra 00:36 Yes. I Isaac Tadé 00:38 Tyra Thomas 2021 Page 1 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Thank you. Okay, so can you tell me about where you grew up and who you call family. T Tyra 00:42 I grew up in South Minneapolis Powderhorne Park neighborhood. I have lived in suburban areas as well like Orno, Wayzata, Long Lake, Eagan, but I grew up in South Minneapolis and who I call family is my community of homeless and Street Voices of Change, church family, and I am the oldest child of three. I Isaac Tadé 01:11 Okay. Do you have any kids? T Tyra 01:13 I do. I have two children, one passed away. My oldest is 35. I Isaac Tadé 01:21 Okay. Excellent, thank you for sharing. Sounds like you have a lot of you have a big family. T Tyra 01:26 Yes, and I have three grandchildren. I Isaac Tadé 01:27 Oh, perfect, perfect. That's awesome. Okay, so can you tell me about how you got involved with Street Voices of Change? T Tyra 01:39 Wow. Street Voices Change is about to have its five year anniversary, I Isaac Tadé 01:44 taking it all the way back Tyra 01:45 Tyra Thomas 2021 Page 2 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai T Tyra 01:45 then when we got together. It was a small group, just a handful of people. And it was conversation around conditions at shelter. In particular the target was Salvation Army, where all of our complaints were coming from, and within a year, the group grew from one location to four. I Isaac Tadé 02:14 Wow, I didn't even know that. T Tyra 02:16 that's how much conversation and concerns folks had about conditions and treatment at shelter. I Isaac Tadé 02:25 And so you were a part of the original group that founded Street Voices. T Tyra 02:31 Yes, yeah. I Isaac Tadé 02:32 Wow. So you've seen, you've seen the full history of the program. T Tyra 02:38 Yes, watch it evolve to where we are now at the capital is just awesome. I Isaac Tadé 02:44 That's incredible. T Tyra 02:44 Yeah, Tyra Thomas 2021 Page 3 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 02:45 Wow, Well first of all I got to say congratulations. T Tyra 02:47 Thank you I Isaac Tadé 02:48 and, and this is this is awesome and thank you for letting me be a small part of it. So what did life look like for you before the pandemic, and what is different for you now because of COVID-19. T Tyra 03:05 Before the pandemic. I don't own a vehicle before the pandemic. I traveled a lot, so I was always going across someone's community and seeing people I've may have seen in a while, or being able to interact with folks. Being able to travel, because now I live a ways from the city which is about an hour bus ride, And so it really hampered my traveling, and because I didn't want to be exposed, right, of course, and it's going to happen the bus would be one way I Isaac Tadé 03:44 and public transportation was down. T Tyra 03:46 Yes, and public transportation was down, so it was really hard to get around. Also I had, I have a mental health specialist that comes to visit me, and that stops. So that was hampering. We still had telecommunication where you can turn the phone but it's not the same, I Isaac Tadé 04:09 of course, T Tyra 04:10 Tyra Thomas 2021 Page 4 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai you know, it's just like, you know Facebook people can say wherever they want or they can send you a text say whatever they want, but looking at people's eyes, and they say, "How you doing," you're saying "no, how you doing for real," I Isaac Tadé 04:21 right, feeling them in the room. T Tyra 04:23 Yes, in the energy and space so that was different and difficult, of course, to deal with. Let's see. I Isaac Tadé 04:34 You talked about your extended family. Were you able to see them throughout the pandemic or no. T Tyra 04:41 Yeah, that was difficult, like my mother. No, because we weren't vaccinated, yet, yet, and she has diabetes, she's older. I Isaac Tadé 04:53 Okay, T Tyra 04:53 um, my son and his fiance, they did get COVID. And we did lose his father-in-law to the pandemic. Because their other household, their extended family, the whole house COVID I Isaac Tadé 05:11 Oh, I'm so sorry. T Tyra 05:12 So, yeah, that was hard, he spent 20 days ICU, nine of those days in a coma and he just Tyra Thomas 2021 Page 5 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai didn't recover. So, you know, being able to stay connected and physically around people. That was quite difficult because I'm a hugger. Yeah, and I just like you know I hug people think I stole a few hugs along the way but I came out unscathed. So probably. I Isaac Tadé 05:13 Yeah. T Tyra 05:17 You know, it's just not the same but it's not. So I've got about 10,000 hugs saved up. I Isaac Tadé 05:49 Oh, good. Um, okay, in what ways has the pandemic changed your outlook on life. Do you see things differently now? T Tyra 06:01 Huh, for myself that suffers from mental health, injuries. What I like to call it, okay. When you say mental health illness, just means you're sick. Sounds like let's be around sick people or disease, but if you say, mental health injury. It's like recovery. I Isaac Tadé 06:31 I like that, T Tyra 06:32 And to tell someone who just be it stay in the house, and isolate yourself is totally different than what my therapist would say or my doctor was saying you know see people be around people. And I learned to find ways to deal with that isolation. Staying connected, calling people getting outside. I Isaac Tadé 07:11 Did you pick up any new hobbies during the pandemic COVID? Any new pets? Tyra 07:19 Tyra Thomas 2021 Page 6 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai T Tyra 07:19 You know, actually no, I actually was able to pick up more work. I'm a volunteer. I'm disabled, but I found more ways to get around that by zooming, you know, I've learned how to zoom, and then I got more familiar with the computer and I'm not that computer literate. Okay, so I learned some stuff good with my computer and yeah I Isaac Tadé 07:46 so exciting. T Tyra 07:47 Yeah. I Isaac Tadé 07:48 I'm happy for you. Yeah. Okay, um, sounds like positive things, yes. In the summer of 2020, the movement against systemic racism had Minneapolis, as its epicenter, with the murder of George Floyd. Can you describe your experience living in Minneapolis/St. Paul, during that time. So it's a heavy question. T Tyra 08:12 It is a heavy question because I was, I actually live an hour away from Minneapolis now we're on a bus is maybe 15 minutes and, you know, I'm the, as soon as that happened, I went straight to the site of Floyd's, George Floyd Square. And, did you feel, I Isaac Tadé 08:38 did you feel called to be there. T Tyra 08:40 Yes, because that corner. I was raised on that corner. 38th of Chicago is in Powderhorne Park neighborhood I Isaac Tadé 08:49 Yes. Tyra Thomas 2021 Page 7 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai T Tyra 08:50 I know the store owner. Cup foods personally. I Isaac Tadé 08:53 Wow. T Tyra 08:54 And I also had conversation with George Floyd when he was working as a provider of security at Salvation Army. I Isaac Tadé 09:00 So you knew him. T Tyra 09:01 Yes, not personal personally but we've had, I Isaac Tadé 09:05 but you had spoken with him T Tyra 09:06 Yes, we had interaction. And I just felt drawn to, I had to go. It was just too much connection. And it was the second night, or the first, the night after that happened, and it rained all night I was there from about 6pm until four o'clock in the morning, I could not leave the space, I just felt so like, do something, Minnesota. Do something. And, I came in the house sopping wet literally left a pole in my front door, I had to drop everything right there, and I lost my phone that night because you know what, so to replace a phone. So, but there was a lot of beautiful people out there just supporting each other and it just kind of just struck awe-struck just kind of like, like pinch me. Are we all we're not all dreaming right right, You know this, this really happened. Yeah. The Donald Williams is a good friend of mine as well. I Isaac Tadé 10:22 Tyra Thomas 2021 Page 8 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Okay. T Tyra 10:23 And he, when I saw him on television. It was just like, how much more connection, can I have to this to this situation that is affected so many of us, you know, it just was deep and too. It was just like, everything was aligned, if you will, to shine a really big light on the struggles of black and brown bodies I Isaac Tadé 11:02 Yes, T Tyra 11:03 and a system of racism, you know. I Isaac Tadé 11:10 In the past year. Do you see the city healing? Do you see improvements being made against racism? Do you see communities coming together? Do you see racial justice being done since the murder of George Floyd? T Tyra 11:30 I see communities coming together but I do not see racial justice being done. I see. There's a word for it - we've just used the other day, kind of tokenism. Like the same old bullcrap. Over and over and over again, band aids, but not real, like the police reform at the Capitol so watered down. You know, just give them this and they'll just go away, you know. We know we only make up, you know what, what is it 20% of 13% of population in the states like people. Yeah, African American, folks. We have the highest racial disparity speaks volume on what is happening, and so I quickly had to remind myself, yes we need reform and policing, but that's not our only problem, and I felt distracted by that with all the other areas like education and health and housing and street voices really helped me to stay grounded on, like, all of those other things too. Yes, we must do all of these things. And it's nice to have that community to help you do that, I Isaac Tadé 12:52 yes. Tyra Thomas 2021 Page 9 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai T Tyra 12:53 because you can't do by yourself, you probably know that. And then when we got through Street Voices of Change got together, we realized we couldn't do it by ourselves, we had to collaborate with others. And so yes, I definitely see community coming together, seeing more just out in the street stuff going on, you know, and then a lot of that has to do with a pandemic because we could meet inside I Isaac Tadé 13:17 people are tired of being indoors T Tyra 13:19 Right! you know so it means that if we were you can only have so many people in a certain setting. And it's just healthier because the pandemic like said, I want to be outside, and which is good because it drives community, they'll be walking by, like, what's happening over here you know. And so, I think, like I said, I believe there's so much more work to do. I Isaac Tadé 13:49 Yeah. T Tyra 13:51 As we were saying earlier about the three Beasts, the, you know, the COVID, George Floyd the unrest that met in the street, and it was just like all happening at the same time, is just amazing to now see hope. You know about it. I Isaac Tadé 14:17 What, what brings you hope personally. T Tyra 14:20 What brings me hope personally is that there's more community of colors that are really important tables are really important, like for us to be over at the Capitol now on a Shelter Tyra Thomas 2021 Page 10 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Task Force, yes, you know, it's a big deal. It's a big deal, lots and lots of lived experience. What else brought me hope? That Department of Justice, actually is all over the country, talking about police reform, but that they came to this city to like, Okay. Flipping desks now. You know what, what, what are you doing, there's so many things about the police. I didn't even know, like, like all the search and seizures they do, where they kill for people's pockets and related to whatever crime they want to related it to. They don't have to be accountable for that money and we're talking millions of dollars. No one audits them and things like that accountability is happening and that gives me hope. I Isaac Tadé 15:24 Good. Yeah, and what I keep hearing is, you know, accountability is not the same thing as justice. Right. Accountability is just holding someone to a certain standard. Mm hmm. And, and justice is more about righting the wrongs that have been done historically. And so do you see us moving towards justice, or we're still at the state of accountability. T Tyra 15:48 We're still in the state of accountability, yeah, Yeah, that that term for justice. I mean, yeah, we got it for George, but the hunt, I mean Emmett Till is still looking for justice, and the person, you know, and hundreds of others 100 that we haven't even named, you know, and the ones we have. Oh my gosh, try remembering them all. You know, that never got a court date, never got an investigation. So, yeah, and again justice all around housing justice, education, justice, you know, equal opportunity and employment, things like that, education, education, justice, yeah. So real thing. When I was growing up here, what they taught us about... black folks was slavery that was kind of the end of it. Yeah, I heard about Harriet Tubman Yeah I heard about Rosa Parks, but there were so many other things. Yes, you know. And then I'm, just the way should I say, the literature that's used that relative to my black body. You know, it's like, okay I went to the store bought four apples and then I came back.. but when I grew up in a community of a food desert, there weren't apples at that corner store. Until recently, I Isaac Tadé 17:17 where there might have been chips and candy bars yeah, yeah, this, um, you know. back, back in the day when I was younger than the, the cold wet food stamps the papers stamps. And then the EBT card came, and then all of a sudden, the conversation about food deserts, they're like, Well, where are they spending their money? On the corner stores. So now corner stores have to in order to be contracted to get use of EBT, or provide healthier food so some things. Yes, but actually no folks need a grocery store, right. I mean Tyra Thomas 2021 Page 11 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai that's, yeah. Okay, we're almost there, you know, kind of dragging along. T Tyra 17:56 Exactly, exactly and the prices are high in those places anyway, so. I Isaac Tadé 18:01 Okay. Well, I'm glad that you have had, you know, hope in your community, hope, hope and seeing representation, and hope in you know, some of these, the mandates being lifted and allowing people to interact again like we used to just to be regular human beings, yes, you know, and I'm glad those things are lifting you forward. T Tyra 18:25 Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Most things give me strength, like I said, meeting here in Central, that gives me strength. Yes, I don't do nothing else in the week, this one day of the week for me to come and do this is, it gives me strength for the next week I Isaac Tadé 18:43 that's incredible, get you through. T Tyra 18:44 Yeah. And so, and Street Voices, does that for each other. Time colleague and he's always saying this is his place of peace, you know, just excited waiting on Thursday. That means a lot. I Isaac Tadé 19:00 There's something special that's happening here. And I'm all about it. Okay, so the next question is, is there anything else that you want people to know or remember let's say 30 years down the line, about your experience or from people's experiences, who may have experienced homelessness during this period of time. What should people remember about this period of time. T Tyra 19:22 In homelessness for myself, on and off homelessness for 20 years, with children without Tyra Thomas 2021 Page 12 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai children. I had things that were I was dealing with in life. I didn't get diagnosed for mental health, injuries, until I was almost 40. When I learned it, I realized I was actually having those experiences as far back as I can remember when I was eight. And I used to walk around Powderhorne Park, all the time by myself, depressed, not knowing these that's what, I Isaac Tadé 19:48 that's what it was, was he didn't have a name for it. T Tyra 20:21 Yeah. And then I got older, And then I got into alcoholism. And so, those struggles are still real. Right. But when I went to treatment for those things and I came out of all that. I was still homeless. And then I was looking for housing, when that I didn't have enough income I was now considered disabled. And then when I got all these ducks in a row and I went...after all was said and done I realize it's not all my fault. And so that's what I say to our homeless community, that if you're having those struggles, you know once you get all those things taken care of, they're still a system of oppression. And it's not only your fault that will work against you. Mm hmm. Wow. And so, to just keep standing up for yourself keep fighting, keep standing up for yourself. Yeah. I Isaac Tadé 21:21 That just gave me goosebumps. Thank you for sharing. Yes, um, if you could ask people to work on something or get involved in an issue, what would that be, Is there something that people hearing this can help with. What issue should people be focusing on? T Tyra 22:00 Affordable housing, deeply affordable housing. And my dollar is just as important as your million dollars, and it should have value. I, I don't have low income I have low wealth, it means something to me it may not mean much to you, but it still has power, and it should be usable should be walking around with the dollar like it's a wet food stamp, because what I want to buy constants are costs that my dollar has value to. And so deeply affordable housing is really where it's at. It's where it all starts, well everybody started at home, right, and they went out into the world and maybe they went to college, maybe they went got a trade and then they got their own place for deep affordable housing is where it all starts. Yes. Tyra Thomas 2021 Page 13 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 23:04 Thank you, that's very wise, very wise. Um, so, have you met the nurses at Central in your five years here, have you met the nurses. T Tyra 23:14 Yeah. I Isaac Tadé 23:16 Okay. And then the next question is there any feedback that you have for them, what is working, What could we do better. Is there anything missing from the health common center? T Tyra 23:31 I probably, you know I've been around nurse Katie for years now, and I didn't. I don't really have anything, I feel like that's missing. At this point, um, all of the services that are provided are, are really awesome services. And, and then even the Streetwork me and nurse Katie have went to encampments together and or went to the same encampments either route went separate at different times and so the services are there and the outreaches there, you know, even outside the health commons, and I couldn't ask for anything more to bless it, yes. Yeah. I Isaac Tadé 24:28 Wow. Well thank you, if you let it if you do think of anything, you know, please let us know. Okay, well, is there anything else that you would like to share with us today. Before we finish. T Tyra 24:51 If the..I'll say this, okay. I found it quite interesting what I heard. If the opposites of pros is cons. Wouldn't the opposite of progress be congress? Oh snaps Okay, keep finding. Okay, push through. I Isaac Tadé 25:17 You heard it here folks, that is. Well thank you, I think that concludes our interview for Tyra Thomas 2021 Page 14 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai today. That's the Mic drop. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your stories and insights. Thank you for having me. T Tyra 25:33 Yes. Tyra Thomas 2021 Page 15 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Title: Transcript of Oral History Interview with Sean Johnson, 2021
Collection: Augsburg Central Health Commons Oral History Project
Search Result: Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Sat, 2/20 3:08PM 1:35:23 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, dude, ai, shit, girl, kate, man, thought, human, teeth, petty misdemeanor, day, walking, job, good, story, told, big, bike, eat SPEAKERS Sean Johnson, Isaac Tadé I Isaac Tadé 00:01 So thank you for join...
Show more Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Sat, 2/20 3:08PM 1:35:23 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, dude, ai, shit, girl, kate, man, thought, human, teeth, petty misdemeanor, day, walking, job, good, story, told, big, bike, eat SPEAKERS Sean Johnson, Isaac Tadé I Isaac Tadé 00:01 So thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the Augsburg University Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tade. Could you please introduce yourself for the record and tell us what your position is? S Sean Johnson 00:16 My name is Sean Johnson. Born 3/31/68. I was originally in Louisiana and I live in Minneapolis. my position is I was homeless for the past three years. But I've been in housing for the last year. I Isaac Tadé 00:35 Great, thank you. Before we continue, I'd like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed and have that this interview is stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public. S Sean Johnson 00:48 Yes. Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 1 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 00:49 Okay. Thank you. So can you tell me more about where you grew up, and who you call family. S Sean Johnson 00:55 I grew up in a town called Ponchatoula, Louisiana. And what I call family was a family of 10. five boys, five girls. My mom had three kids, but my dad had seven later. So I grew up in a big family. I have a daughter now of my own, one. And that's pretty much it. I Isaac Tadé 01:21 Can you describe your educational background? S Sean Johnson 01:24 Education, that's a funny one. Um, I was actually honor student in my whole life. But I quit school and I kind of gave up on school. I'm a cancer survivor, I got cancer at 15. So I finished high school, I went to Southern University for a semester, then got kicked out second, second semester that quit going. And then at 19, I moved to Minnesota. And I worked at the U of M. And they payed for school. So I got about two years, and that was at that same time. I got about two years, there doing a work-study thing. So I probably could graduate if I go back for about two years, going back to three semesters, but that's pretty much it. I Isaac Tadé 02:11 How has homelessness and our housing insecurity affected your body, your mind your spirit? S Sean Johnson 02:18 Boom! It affects all that. The thing that homelessness does that I don't think it gets enough credit for is actually the people that survive on this gives enough credit for it because you get attacked physically, you get attacked mentally, you get attacked morally, you know, it'll attack financially. You know, it just takes your spirit away, man, and you don't even notice it. Until you see yourself doing things. You look in the mirror one day, like "Who the hell, you know, is looking back at me?" But for me, I think my blessing is the people that raised me, you know what I mean? Because I was raised at a different time in a different Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 2 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai place. And their moral compass always stuck with me in the darkest nights. And I'm grateful for the people that raised me, even though at the time they were doing it I was kind of like, you know, "This is some bullshit." But as I'm on the outside of the journey, the homeless journey, I know that's what got me through it. Because, for me, you know, I've seen things that I know I could have done to make my journey a lot shorter. But there would have been victim to that. And I didn't see putting my misery on someone else. As it would have been. No one would have knew. I mean, I could have got away clean. But I would have known. And I know that as I'm turning slightly at home on the housing side, the race is lasted a lot longer than I would have liked it to. But I know along the way I didn't compromise who I am so I'm proud of that. It's not easy, though, to be totally honest with you. I Isaac Tadé 04:06 Yeah, thank you for sharing that. How did you first become homeless? S Sean Johnson 04:11 When I first became homeless, we had a house man, me and my daughter's mom. I met her, we were 19 in St. Paul, like 1000 years ago. Anyway, she got a job with the city of Minneapolis, we were in Saint Paul, and at the time Sharon Sayles Belton was the mayor. And you had to live in a city to work for the city. So we bought a house in the south. We have a kid who's like 35 or so. You know, and those were the old days, she got a little older and we decided to sell the house. And my whole thing with that was you take all the proceeds from the house, cause I had 4500 in the bank. And I'm gonna just take that, you make sure Kari (daughter) is okay, and I'll be fine. And then I get to the bank and my money was gone. And I was like, "you kidding me?" And to this day I don't know who I paid off. You know, but I was healthy and I didn't think it would be a big deal. I thought I'd just go to a shelter for a little bit, you know, and get back on my feet and that was three years ago. But what I didn't realize was the criminalization of being homeless. I know that what they'll do is give you this little misdemeanor citation for just being somewhere, or offending this cop, it's just just stupid. And it sounds like a petty misdemeanor. If you didn't grew up in a system that just sound like, "what's that what's the worst could happen?" But what the evil in that is the cop that gives you that petty misdemeanor, he knows that you can't get a job for two years. When I got that thing, I had no clue that that meant my legs were taken from me, because that's really what happened. Because I could go get a job, but I couldn't get a job to keep me from coming back to the shelter at night. Now at any moment, right now I can call Linda, my daughter's mom. But the deal was you take and makesure Kari's straight, which she did, and she still is doing. But I kept my word on that. And I could have called her soon the money was gone. You know what I'm saying? And Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 3 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai kept on keeping on, but my word actually meant something then and still means something now. And even as she has helped me out along the way, and she woudl help me now if I asked her to, but I choose not to. Because the deal was you take Kari. And we're still friends don't get me wrong? We'll always be friends, I'll always love her, we just not together no more. So that's how it pretty much started. And another thing, the staff at these places, oh my God. I get the human factor. Because you're dealing with people that aren't there mentally, human tumors deal with humans, right? And you get burnt out. Once you get burned out, you should step away. Because they start doing things to people that at the time, it don't seem like a big deal. But the time you spent in this journey adds to it, like throwing away your belongings, you know. In those belongings is your IDs, you can't even get the shitty job without your ID. So now you gotta go, you see what I'm saying? And all those little things that don't seem like much go from what I thought was gonna be, maybe I get me 2 or 3 checks. It went from that, to three years later, I'm sitting across from Isaac, telling him, you know, what the hell just happened, you know, saying? But as I said here, you know, it does not put enough emphasis on once you get out to stay out. They'd like you to stay in the system. Everything is about revolving around in the system. You know, it's every time I had a job, I had to try and make it first shift because anytime after that you lose your bed. So I couldn't get a job where I didn't need the bed. But in order to get a job to just be able to eat and just to survive, you lose your bed. Because it's set up for you to just lay round all day, and then go get to bed at 5:00. By 5:30 the bed is gone. So now you worked all day they're gonna be out all night. Just it just a lesson in learning, I think. I Isaac Tadé 08:23 Thank you for sharing that that's really in depth perspective. From your experiences from what you've seen. What do you see as the main causes of homelessness or housing insecurity? S Sean Johnson 08:40 I know that there's a ton of great people trying to do good work. However, too many times people come to the problem with a solution. And they don't really know it. They looking at the problem through the lens of their eyes from the lens of their experience, and what they would do to make that better if it were them. However, is not. And from looking at it through my lens, I run into that all the time. And then once tell them what's really going on, they get offended. "How could this not be the right answer? Because, I went to Yale and at Yale, they say that if this happens, that happens!" But this ain't Yale. This Hennepin and Franklin, you know what I'm saying? This is Yale, but a different kind of Yale. You see what I'm saying? And so your degree at Yale ain't really got nothing to do with how the Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 4 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai hell you feed your guy. As a human being, as a man, as a black man. I can only talk about it from these eyes. As a right as a black man, you're hungry. You know that theirs food over there. You just saw people run off with the food, but your moral compass tell you that that's not the right thing to do. But your stomach tells you, "look at here dude, who's really going to know?" But that goes back to running the race and getting the true reward at the end, as opposed to getting to the end, and it's really not the end because you ran the race so shady. You see what I'm saying? And you think this was your reward when it really was that. So now that I'm coming at the end of it, I can't unsee the things I've seen; humans doing just inhumane things. And I'm not jumping up and down or anything like that, but I can honestly, honestly, even if no one ever knew, look in the mirror and say I have never ever screwed over, you see what I'm saying? And that cost me time. There were situations where yeah, it would have been it made my day a whole lot easier. And there's people out there who don't even konw you screwed them over. And that's another sad thing. They shouldn't be around people that think it's okay. One example, right? You had this woman. Now she's amongst her friends. She's talking right? Every dollar she own fell out of her thing, and she's talking and the money's on the floor. Her friends was like sharks, and I'm sitting back, checking it out. They were like sharks, waiting on her to leave her money. I'm like, "Lady you dropped your money." She didn't hear me, she wants to walk off. They was really getting ready, I'm like "Lady! You know, you dropped your money." So you get it from from the outside. But you also get it from the inside too. You know what I'm saying? And the people that are surviving man, they don't get enough credit for some survivalist degrees. It's insane. It really is. You know, I forgot what the question was. But we got around to it! I Isaac Tadé 11:56 The question was about what do you see as the main causes of homelessness? S Sean Johnson 12:00 The main cause? I would say it's personal. I think drugs, mental, alcohol. And especially mental, because when you're not mentally rooted, like spiritually rooted or stable... and you hear all the time that you ain't worth anything, it's easy to believe that. You know what I'm saying? And it brought your whole day. That's what you're getting out of it. I always ask people, I say, "Close your eyes, and picture what you think homelesses is." You know, and that's part of the problem there. Because what you see that's one thing. There are like a million different ways to get into being homeless. But the way they got the system up, there's just one way to get out. How can there be a million ways in, but one way out? So you got all these people fighting for what they thinking is their good day, but my good day, and your good day is two different good days. Like, your apartment that Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 5 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai making you just tickled pink and mine that made me tickled pink is two different things. You see what I'm saying? But they got everybody in there fighting for the same thing. And so it's like crabs in a barrel, kind of. In Minnesota, I will say that there's tons of good people, and there are opportunities and avenues to get out. But, but I think to be totally honest with you, just humans doing inhumane things. But the biggest ones is drugs, alcohol and mental, you know, people that should that deserve better representation. Let's put it like. And then, just people being honest about what their weaknesses are. You know, probably shouldn't be drinking that if you're gonna drink that one, and we're going to find you. You know what I'm saying? But those are the big three. I Isaac Tadé 13:57 It sounds like there are not systems in place to help people deal with the problems that they have. And so they turned to drugs, alcohol, and other means, right? Which, in turn, makes things worse, and will probably, in some cases, give them some sort of mental illness. S Sean Johnson 14:18 Yes! There's a guy. I'm glad you said that. There's a guy, to get housing. Now, this is insane. To get to the top of the housing list, he had to go to his "method-dome" thing. Which is the quickest way to get him in the housing. He wasn't even on drugs, but after going through the method-done thing, now he's on heroin. He's had to heroin now. But he had to do that, that's the only way he can get on the list for housing. So now they really got him, you know what I mean? It's like, that's insane. But at the time, the best way to quickly get to help was go to the methadome thing. And for somebody that never even, smoked weed. But if you see him right now, he's strung out on fucking heroin. And now that was because he was trying to get into the housing quick. You know what I'm saying? So that's the system. I mean, and of course, he lost the house. And not only lost the house he got an open mark on his back now, that wasn't there at the beginning of the thing. And with the whole drug, it's so much more easy, because that's right here, right here. And you got to get through that, to get to where you really should be going. It takes a little bit. It really does. It takes a little bit to get through, to stay focused. It really does. And it is sad to see, see the light go out of people's eyes. You know, that's a tough one for me. I can't speak for everybody, some people see it and be like, "Oh, this opportunity for me." You know what I mean? Right now, that's insane to me, is just like with the tags. But you know, you see to that. I Isaac Tadé 16:01 Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 6 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai What stories or what experiences from your time being homeless have most changed your perspective? S Sean Johnson 16:10 The girl at the train, you know, and I never get into the domestic. That's just one thing you don't do. You learn that early. Like, it's the craziest shit you could do is get get in the middle of a domestic, right? But it was... I Isaac Tadé 16:21 Could you tell that story? S Sean Johnson 16:22 Yeah I'm finna do it now. I never do that, but it was something about this dude, that was so despicable. And I chose that word because I don't want no bleeps. But that's just it, I was like, I said, "Why are you with this dude, right?" Because I thought I knew! She's gonna need me to come here, I'm gonna slap him a little and throw him off the train. And then she'd go, you know? That's me thinking I know what's best for her. But I didn't have enough to ask her. And what she said was, "It's better to be raped by one dude as opposed to 12." And then I looked there, she was a tiny little thing. I mean, dude, she couldn't have been you know? She's Kate's size. But Kate's bigger in height. But after that day, I never ever assumed anything. You know, cause I never saw that one coming in. That's her best choice. And that's not a choice, this is America, man. And I'm not talking about something that happened in the Kentucky Appalachians or you know what I'm saying? This was on the train come from St. Paul. to Minneapolis. You know, that's the best choice, in America. I mean, come on, man. What I learned from that was not to assume I know anything. It was so humbling dude, cause I got sisters, I got a daughter, Mom. You're looking at this girl. And it's like, wow, you know, that's her best? Talk about best day. Picture that is your best day just to get raped once, as opposed to 12? How about not at all? You know, how about just chilling it? But you see it, that whole thing about dreaming. I want to make sure this get in there. Because I heard the brother, the South African brother, on the Daily Show. He said this. I want to give him his credit. Because when he said it, I was like, "Dink!". It was about dreams because somebody said, I forgot who he was talking to. And he said, "People should you know, live and try to get to their dreams." And he said, "Say well, you know, I used to think that until I realized, let's just say that all I know is this eight blocks. I don't know to dream outside that eight blocks. I don't even know if it's possible." So the thing is to get people to dream beyond their dreams. Because if all I know is this, I just know to dream about that. And in my life growing up in Louisiana, that's why I love my Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 7 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai parents, my parents, my grandparents, my aunts, everybody who has something to do with making me who I am today, the dude that's sitting across from Isaac. I'm so happy for that because it gave me enough to understand that and I am somebody, fuck what they say, I'm sorry about that. I deserve to live a bountiful life. And that's what tipped me off about the thing that just happened. There's a $58,000 job. Right? And now, he didn't tell us about that one until it was over. But now there's a $10 job. "I really want y'all to have that." Why can't you really want me to be an American? To have something more. Yeah, like would you want it? Cause come on, man. I Isaac Tadé 19:55 And who was it that offered this job? S Sean Johnson 19:57 The dude over there, I'm gonna say Joe. He came to speak at the Street Voices meeting. I Isaac Tadé 20:07 Okay. S Sean Johnson 20:07 He worked for the system now, you might as well say. And what I was telling him was, you know, why are we talking about this job if it's done? You know, I already have a 10 dollar job so that's gonna keep me where I'm at. I'm just treading tires, you know? But um, but there are good people out there, man. I ramble a lot too, so. Next! I Isaac Tadé 20:35 Next! No, you bring in a lot of really good perspective. You talked about the South African, that's Trevor Noah, right? S Sean Johnson 20:40 Yes! The dream thing, that's huge. Yes. But one more thing. Cause for me, Sean Johnson, Kari's dad, that's another thing she's changed, she saved my life. Cause it's easier for me to let Pookie think he's a man in this tiny situation that just went down at the, let's just say, over there or at the park or at the shelter or anywhere. I'm gonna let him be big now. Because if I deal with him, I can't be there to protect my daughter. You see what I'm Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 8 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai saying? So you go head on and say what you think. Anything short of getting in the no fly zone, you okay with me. You're not okay, but you see what I'm saying? Yeah, you have to let shit slide, because if I get on this here dude? I look at him as consequences. And I had this little guy, buddy, I kid you not, he thought he was a Rottweiler. So every day, that's my go to. When somebody got me in a place that I know that if I deal with this, I'm gonna have consequences. The first thing I heard is buddy. I look at him and I just see buddy. That makes it easier for me to stay focus on my big picture, which is protecting my baby girl. You know what I'm saying? I ain't got to be doing no time just because he needs to feel big about saying whatever he needs to say about me, that ain't true anyway. And another thing, once you've been shot at a few times, words lose. Like, put the gun down. You can say what you want. Why we gotta leave markers all the God damn time? You know, call me what you want, but put the gun down. But anyway, yeah I wanted to get that in there. I Isaac Tadé 22:35 Yeah, it sounds like something one of my professors told me one time he said that, you know, there's a million things in the world that could rub you the wrong way. You can choose the ones that actually get you. S Sean Johnson 22:49 Yes. Choices. I've been reading, and not only reading, but not in the journey, I want to be able to enjoy my time. Physically. That's the whole damn thing, man. And so I'm doing this. The brain I'm up there now, like I was just telling you about the Tenzy guy . And he got me reading books and like I said, eating things. But the thing about that though, is I'm gonna tell my niece and nephew. You see what I'm saying? Cause no one told me. Now I'm not putting that against my parents. They did the best they could where they were at. You know what I'm saying? But now that I know better, they gonna know about this. You know what I'm saying, there are things that I found out like yesterday. What's the date? Thursday? Like Tuesday, I wish I had known years ago. You know what I'm saying? But I can't, "Oh, woe is me about those changes." I got to think about today and moving forward and making it better for the ones that I know will be benefiting from that. In that whole family thing you mentioned earlier. I can remember I hated White people, when I met my daughter's mom. I opened up the door, I see these two white girls. I don't even like white people I said I'm going to shut the door, she stuck her foot out there and she didn't know she had me right there. I'm like this bitch is something! But that's how we met. And I meant that. But as I sit here today my family, as you mentioned, is these people at the at the shelter. Is the girl, the White girl, that was outside of target eating soup with her hands and shit. The police over here cause they on every corner now. You know, they looking at Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 9 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai the girl they don't do anything and then you know you got her compadres, they looking at her as a victim cause she's still kind look okay. She was probably kind of hot back in the day, if you know what I'm saying. So she kind of look okay, but the girl obviously got a problem. Noone's helping her, you know, and it's like, come on man, this girl need help. But I saw her. And I do a bike taxi. I'm going to tell one story and then we're going to move on. I do the bike taxi, right? This the same girl. On the bike taxi, she had been trying to approach me and I can tell. I didn't want to approach her because the way the dudes do her, you know, she deserves better. So she finally came up to me, right? And so she just knew she was gonna have to perform some kind of way. She was going to use her body. I'm trying to tell her I just want to give her a ride. And she trying to figure out how she gonna pay but it. You ain't got to pay for that! I take her for a little ride, she's having fun, dah dah dah, and I bring her back right? And now she really thinks she got to pay. So now she tried to set up how she could pay me later, right? So what I did was, I gave her $5 right ? Now she's all fucked up, cause not only is she not paying, I just gave her $5 right? And I said just go get yourself something. I say that to say this, I hadn't seen her for quite some time and the whole pandemic, and you hear all this crazy shit. And I'm wondering if she's okay. And I was walking, it's been about a month now. I was walking down on Nicolette and I see her. Now she got her hair all over her face, she's you know, she's not looking great. She's doing. And I'm looking at her and walking slow because I want to make eye contact, and I'm happy I see her! But I don't know where she's at, or I can't approach it. I don't know how that's gonna go. I Isaac Tadé 26:35 Where her mental space is at. S Sean Johnson 26:37 Exactly. I'm respecting her. But I want her to know, I'm hoping she looks up, and she looks through the glass. And she sees me. And I smiled at her, you know, not nothing, "Hey, how you doing?" kind of thing. And she smiled. You know what I'm saying it's the little shit. I don't know this girl. You know what I mean? But but she's human. She's somebody's daughter. You know, I don't know her story. But I know she deserves whatever her good day is, she deserves. And it seems like something like that happens all the time. I just jokingly say that I wish I didn't have a conscious. Because you know, I could go ahead and bust a couple heads, you know? Cause I'm straight! I Isaac Tadé 27:25 Cause sometimes you feel as though you need to do whatever you need to survive. Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 10 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai S Sean Johnson 27:30 Yes. I Isaac Tadé 27:30 But your conscience tells you that there might be consequences or that, you know, you will be hurting other people if you do those things. S Sean Johnson 27:40 Yes.Yes. I Isaac Tadé 27:40 So then you're not selfish. S Sean Johnson 27:42 Yes. I Isaac Tadé 27:43 Right. S Sean Johnson 27:43 And the thing is though, you see it being done by cowards. But anyway, you don't want to judge but you gotta decifer because, you didn't do it if you're in crime, it's gonna happen to you. So I'm not judging you. But I can't be no idiot. You are who you are dude, I gotta respect that. But who you proclaim to be I gotta respect where you're at. Anyway, you know that was one of those stories, man. And I feel good about that, though, you know, and then she went on with the day, it went to get better. You know, I'm trying to find a way to help the girl, because there's a ton of them out there. The thing that gets me the most with the homeless thing is the people that can't defend themselves. They don't even know they're getting screwed over. I Isaac Tadé 28:28 Women and children? Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 11 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai S Sean Johnson 28:30 Handicap, any mental or physical. Yeah. You know, and the cowards that take advantage of them? Oh my God, they should separate them, dude. She shouldn't be by him. Yeah, she shouldn't be by her. You know what I'm saying, it's insane. But then they say, "Well, we're just putting them in a place." Well, they're not out in the cold, but she probably better out in the cold than with the shit that's going on in there. It's one thing to take the soul away. That goes back to seeing that light go out of their eyes. That's a horrible thing, dude. And, yeah, so it's a ton of that. And it's not a hard fix. Just separate them and put somebody in there to, you know? But I've been reading a lot, and them Ted Talks. I've been trying to, I want the whole damn thing. And but not only do I want it for me, I want it for my family, that's that girl. It's even the dude that was getting the damn tags. You know, he in there too. That's that crazy ass uncle that at the end of the barbecue, everybody want to kick you his ass. You know what I'm saying? But he's still... I Isaac Tadé 29:43 He's somebody's uncle. S Sean Johnson 29:44 Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And see people don't get that. That just rolled off of you. But that ain't something you get at school. You know what I'm saying? So when you come at me with, "You gotta have a bachelors to..." That whole shit that got me out of a job, they paying somebody to be me. But you gonna bribe me with ten dollars? I Isaac Tadé 30:08 Right. S Sean Johnson 30:09 And they tell me to trust you. But anyway. And that dentist thing. Dude! That's huge. People ain't got no teeth. I Isaac Tadé 30:22 That was gonna be one of my next questions, so that's a smooth transition. I was gonna ask you! People ain't got no teeth, man. So what, has been your experience? What is, you know, I'm trying to be a dentist. What are some of the things that you've seen, some of the Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 12 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai problems that can be addressed by dentists on the streets. What has been your experience with homelessness and like dental health? S Sean Johnson 31:04 See the thing with like dental health, like all of the things. See dental health shouldn't be like, an extra special thing. Having teeth, you know, being able to see, the basic things shouldn't be like extra curricular shit, you know what I mean? And so people don't have time to think about that. Let's just say for me as an example. I gotta get to a dentist. I got three problems in my mouth that I know I got, I need to get to a dentist, right? Definitely, absolutely no teeth. But if your struggle is to get something to eat, I can't work if it's a green leafy. I just got to get something in my stomach. So I ain't got time to worry about it, this tooth. I Isaac Tadé 31:51 There's a hierarchy of needs. S Sean Johnson 31:52 Yes! Priorities. Or like what I'm trying to say is, when you're struggling like that, you have to remember everybody's basement and cheiling is different. You know what I'm saying? So, the teeth thing. For me, that's huge. I can remember when I was young, and I would get into fights. That's my first thought I gotta get to him before he knock one of my teeth out! But people don't even have time to think about that. Because if you're getting raped, 12 times... I had a girl. Now dude, I'm not bragging, I'm just telling her story. I met her. This is how she introduced herself to me, right? She didn't tell her name. She says, "I don't have molars, and I don't have a gag reflex." I Isaac Tadé 32:56 I know where you're going with this. What was her story? S Sean Johnson 32:57 Like what do you say to that? But then, and I'm like, what's your name? But her story. Oh, my God. Her story was, she was gang raped. When she was like 13 in one of the cities, North. Not in the city, but in one of them towns, but whatever. And no one believed her. And that was her deal. You know, and then so she was all fucked up. No one believed her even, her family. So she ended up coming down here. She got hooked up with Mexico Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 13 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai dude, she ended living five year down in Guatemala, or somewhere down in Mexico. When I met her I thought she was a Mexican. But she's actually native. I Isaac Tadé 33:57 Okay. S Sean Johnson 33:58 She was actually native, right? Cause I met her with a crazy dude. No, it was just one of those nights with this insane dude, remind me to tell you about him. So he goes to this place, right? Young, white girl. Now she's got the bachelor's degree from the University of Minnesota, big old thing on the wall, but she's smoking and so dude goes in there right? I Isaac Tadé 34:19 Smoking what? S Sean Johnson 34:21 I want to say meth. But everything's in there. Math, crack, if you name it is in there. Right? And so dude goes in there. As I'm walking in, the girl, this is the first time we ever saw eachother. She says some Spanish. She's knows her dude is a fucking animal. When I say animal. Yeah, he's an animal. I Isaac Tadé 34:38 The guy that she was with. S Sean Johnson 34:40 No, the guy that I was with. I Isaac Tadé 34:41 Oh S Sean Johnson 34:41 Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 14 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai That guy I came in with. They take me to his friend's house. They don't want him there. Until now that they hooked, not they good. But anyway. So the next time I saw her that's when she did that, like the gag reflex, thing and I'm thinking, "I'm okay." I Isaac Tadé 35:00 I'm straight! S Sean Johnson 35:03 I'm good, so now we're talking right? And noone had ever done that. Yet, but that's when I heard the story. That just was horrible man. And she had a son, I want to say, from it. That was another thing. Yes! Her son was from it, so everytime she's looking at him...That is a horrible story, though. That's why you guys can't judge people, man. And she was smart too. Once she talked to you gotta, once you broke through and talked she was smarter than shit, you know. But her story was just crazy. And she had a chip in her. She was being sold. Yes. She was being sold. They knew where she was at 24 seven. That's not no conspiracy, she showed the shit to me, right up under her skin. So she talking about trafficking. Oh, yeah. She was that, you know. It was just horrible. I still didn't get her name, you know? But yes, that was bad. But the dude he raped this girl. This woman. Right? His story is, he went to the penitentiary. And he was the one that was planting her here. He didn't actually didn't have a good time in penitentiary. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, and it fucked his head up. So out here, he just burned up, because the things he do to women is just... And then once I realized who he, you know, who he kept reminding me of? Do you remember Derrick Sharper? The Green Bay Packers guy? I Isaac Tadé 37:09 Yeah. S Sean Johnson 37:10 Yeah, he was kind of like that. You'd never think that Derrick Sharper was running around raping and all that. You know, he just didn't fit the profile. But once you got to know him...No way, there's nothing this dude won't do. But it was because of what had happened to him in a penitentiary. And he actually got charged with a rape. And I just saw him, this past summer. He had been back to the penitentiary. So he kind of got his. But yeah, I don't know what happened. The last time I saw her, she was sitting up on Park right off of Park and about 24. But yeah, there is just so many stories like that. And he's just sad...But it's just that kind of severity. Like I say the women, the kids, the mentally and Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 15 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai physically. And it's got this one dude. I don't know his deal. But he's in a wheelchair, he's probably up there right now on Hennepin. He sits in his chair all the time, and he gets money from somewhere. Whatever, his deal is, a check will come. And his friends man, they just feed this dude crack. But he can't move, they hold it. He can't even, nothing's working. You know? And I'm like, dude, those aren't your friend. He had to dude laying in the snow, in his vomit. And I'm like, I tried to give him a glove, I don't know, these guys, it's some Somali dudes. And they laugh and I'm like, dude, these are not your friends. Cause I don't even know you. And you're laying in vomit. Yeah, ain't got no shoes on. Got no gloves on. I gave him the gloves. But they like, "Just let him stay there", I'm like come on, man. You just can't. So I gave him the glove. And I told you these are not your friends. I don't give a fuck what they said. It was cold as shit. I Isaac Tadé 39:22 I guess to return back to the question. What advice would you give me as a future dentist, right? That I can best serve people who have experienced homelessness. What advice would you give to me? S Sean Johnson 39:40 To you? You know, first of all understand that it's a need. Oh my god, dude, it's insane. And I'm talking about, I think we had to come up with a way to to learn. To a lot of people like I said, that ain't even a thought. Dude you aint about 20 some years old, but you got the meth thing. That'll mess the teeth up. And then you just got the average Joe, you know, they they take care of their teeth. And I couldn't go to dentist till I was 21, but I brush my teeth. You know what I'm saying? But I actually went to a dentist at 21 years old. I did a good enough jobs and I know that I should be going to a dentist. But it's not on their list. It's just not, because when this dude got mad, he got mad at me. We ordered a sandwich together and I ate mine. He got mad, I'm like dude, I got teeth. You don't have no teeth, that's why it's taking you longer! But you know, the thing is, figure out a way to let them know they deserve to have teeth. See that's the thing. They just so happy, that's not a luxury. It's okay to have teeth! It's okay to want to smile. No, it's okay. The natural things that teeth do, they don't think about them, like a nice smile. You can actually eat your food! I Isaac Tadé 41:14 Or even speak! Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 16 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai S Sean Johnson 41:15 Yeah, yes. Without spitting on you. But it's those little things. I mean, you have to come at them in a way to where they don't feel less than. Cause they get enough of that.You know what I'm saying? I Isaac Tadé 41:27 Don't come at people in a way. That's like condescending. S Sean Johnson 41:31 Yes. I Isaac Tadé 41:32 Or, to put myself in a position above you. S Sean Johnson 41:35 Yes. And see that happens. And then they shut down. I Isaac Tadé 41:39 Yeah S Sean Johnson 41:39 That's what happens. I Isaac Tadé 41:40 And then they won't ever see a dentist again. S Sean Johnson 41:42 No, because they looking for a reason to not see you. They come into it not wanting to like you. Then once you give them that one, well you just, you just validated what I know to be true, even though I have no research on it at all. And it's the best thing that could have happened to me. And people don't realize how big certain little things are. And the timing Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 17 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai of it. You can say the smallest thing to the wrong person at the wrong time...and that's (Hurricane) Katrina. People don't realize that. And I've seen that. Yeah. People don't realize the power words. For me that's just like with when I first met Kate. I didn't trust Kate. And she'll tell you that. She just straight up. It took her like... I Isaac Tadé 42:36 A couple years, right? S Sean Johnson 42:37 She'll say that's right. But it was some time because by the time I met Kate, I had been in it for like two years. And I just got tired of people. Because they had a badge on. And then went to school, doing whatever they do for shits and giggles, and to feel good about themselves. This whole, shit, right? But they treat me like shit. And, "you should just be happy that they're there. I'm gonna treat you like shit. But you ain't shit anyway. So you should be happy that I ain't treat you like worse shit." You see what I'm saying? So I assume that that's where they're coming from. I Isaac Tadé 43:11 From your prior experience. S Sean Johnson 43:12 Yes, but I don't stay there. I don't treat them that way. But what I do is I give them a chance to prove that they're not that. I don't just go into it to think just cause you got that little thing on, that you're a good person. Now once you prove you a good person, we could you know, because I've been out I've been I didn't get been woken up. Alvarez say, Steven. Do cussing me out. It's during the morning. He cussing me out calling me ali ne and I asked him I'm like, Man, you know, why you cussing me? Yeah. Did you look beyond what you go do about it? Dude, it's minus 20 degrees outside. You know what's really going on here, man. But I'm thinking I ain't saying anything. Because, you know, I know what's going on. But But can I go to sleep now? Oh, you ain't gonna do what you're gonna do. You know, be outside. I could go to sleep or be ready to just be inside or outside. You know? So there's no real choice here to go ahead and finish call me what you don't call me. Tomorrow. Makai passenger shall do nothing. But I'm gonna call you Pachamama do my part because guess what you should do and do wake up in the morning trying to get you kicked out. And he's getting paid to be there. But, but it's just it's like a like I say that's why they should get more credit for survivalists day because you get hit from our Lord. Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 18 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai And then you hit yourself. You know what I'm saying? You hit the gym knocked out yourself and see, that's another thing. And the biggest thing man is is getting people to actually look in the mirror. The old Michael Jackson thing, the dude in the mirror, I Isaac Tadé 44:48 the man in the mirror S Sean Johnson 44:48 you know, too many people don't want to look at him, that's why you're up in my mirror. You see what I'm saying? You know, if you will be in yoga, you'd be so busy, you won't even notice. You know what I'm saying? I got so much hate in this mirror, that I ain't got time for that. You know, and, and there are people waiting on me to get this shit, right. I Isaac Tadé 45:19 Your people who depend on you? S Sean Johnson 45:21 Yes. And that's another thing they they don't see homeless people thinking or having any value. Like, another story, over at Higher Ground in St. Paul. I'm working and making like 150 to 200 a day. So I'm getting about this. I come to these checks and I'm good. And so they saw me stacking the locker, dude I'm getting ready to make a move. I got it all. And something went down. And they fixing kick me out, I say cool. I got one question. What about my stuff in my locker? Cause I had to go to work that day. It's 5:30 in the morning, right? I have no problem not coming back here. But do I need to take my stuff to work with me? Or is it gonna be okay? They say I got 36 hours, right? So I leave. And then I come over here to St. Paul and Kate, another Kate, hooks me up at St. Stephen's right. So I call them from the library downtown. So it's like 5:30 that same day. "Well, this is Seann coming to get my stuff." They put me on hold. I knew something was wrong right there. They stolen all of it. They told me they threw it away. I'm like, "Well what garbage can did you throw it in?" Because I knew the garbage didn't run that day. I knew that garbage didn't run. So I can just go get it. They say, "Oh, no, you can't do that." "What do you mean I can't do it. You threw it out. It was in the garbage. I go get mine." But they stole my stuff and in stealing my stuff...See they were stealing the jeans, the clipper all that stuff, but they threw away my pictures. The picture of my dad when he was still healthy, vibrant. Yeah. And me I was 23 in that picture, in the backyard that I grew up in. That picture told like 100 years of my childhood, and see that was a legacy pitcture for Kari. Because by the Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 19 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai time Kari came around, my dad had dementia. I wished she could see him... You know, you know what I mean? I Isaac Tadé 47:17 In that family barbecue picture. S Sean Johnson 47:19 Yes. Yeah. But you know, they have all those, fryers now? I Isaac Tadé 47:25 Air fryers? S Sean Johnson 47:26 Yes. My dad had a beer keg. Cut off, with a torch under it. I Isaac Tadé 47:35 He made his own. S Sean Johnson 47:36 With a clothes hanger, yes! That was in that picture. You know what I'm saying? And they just threw my shit away, man. I had a passport in there to travel. And I had two empty pages. And I just wanted so much to fill that damn thing. They do that in the clothes and all that stuff. That I mean, I'm saying I was pissed about that. But it wasn't but it could be replaced. That pictures gone. I Isaac Tadé 48:02 those pictures can't be replaced. S Sean Johnson 48:04 You know, what I'm saying? And then she is telling me this, Mr. Johnson we can't do anything. You know? And then you flip it because I already know what was in there, you Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 20 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai know what I'm saying? But they just feel like you just don't have anything of value and you're not a value. And whatever happens happens, you know, shake it off and keep you I Isaac Tadé 48:27 so going. Yeah, going in to a healthcare profession. Being mindful of First of all, what words I use, how I approach people to not be condescending, and being respectful of their things, their appearances, their journey. S Sean Johnson 48:47 Yes, just because you see, I see Isaac at whatever age you are right now. I don't know what it took for you to get there. You know what, I don't know what happened to you last week or you know what I'm saying? Or whatever you use that you don't say it or you know it could have been great day it could have been some facility I don't know. But for me to look at you now and assume that's the worst thing that happens with a Canadian assuming you don't mean oh he gotta be this or he must be that or you know and all this Oh shit. I don't have people like leave money out for me to take it so the guy you know don't come home man. I mean it's just but the thing is if it be genuine with people cause they see that fake shit you know they really get a greater Miss kudos or much less than a mile away. But just be be open to know that they're human and in being human well and invaluable man no big me's and little you and you know none of that. Just realize that they're human. And there's a story ready when you really good at it. Can you get to the story? You see what I'm saying? Cuz cuz if you if you shut him up at a beat, you never really know what you did. You can sit there talk to him for an hour and not even know who you talk. too, once you get beyond the way they are feeling they can talk to you talk for five minutes. You know everything. You see what I'm saying? There's a big difference if you want them to feel at ease and it just when they could just relax and not be on gold trust you. Yes. Because if you don't God, I'll bet you, you know, you let you in here because you don't do enough people hitting me. So if I can force a missile to keep you at arm's length until I know you ain't gonna stab me in the back. And once you get back then do what you want to do. You know? And so that's what she talked about. It might have seemed like, I didn't need to make sure you have like acting crazy. We all do say you know me, but but it will make them get to the store. To once you get to the story. That's the family. That's why I say that's what my family brothers St. pontotoc to do. But my family I think girl, I mean, she like a third cousin our you know what I mean? She only my family? Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And even the uncle that we know, we got to get rid of. We gotta cut him out for before Pyro round to go but he's still but you know, he's still family. And that's tough sometimes. No, it really is when you hungry. He just told us your way. And you know you better Yeah, you know, or you could take it from him. You know, but but you got to be Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 21 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai patient and stay within your roots. And hopefully you got good to see you don't blow you over. You know what, it's a really incredible I woke and I had dude standing on me with a knife. Yes. And the same dude. It was it was like it was so damn cold. I had a park around and freezing my ass he dropped he up on the ramp by the Radisson in the Marriott right there. Don't turn. Yes. And that bitch right there. I'm gonna do you want to get on this bus. I got it. bus token we just get on the bus and warm up. Get into police pull up. This guy. We got him. So I just take our wallet. Then I turn around, they sent him back on the bitch and left him. Now that same dude, he's so drunk. I remember that. That same dude, like pretty much later, I wake up he is over me with a knife. And I'm looking at grabbing right in a pinup, you know, so I gotta grab him in the knife. And I pick him up to the front. The first thing he asked me, What did I do? I was asleep. What about? What about I will sleep? in it. There are good staff too, though. Don't get me wrong. And from my side of it. You I always have whatever they do. I have to be true to me because I need this to work. You know, you go home with your job. And you Oh, I had a bad day at work. But your bad day won't be that good. Send me back six months, I need this to work not have been the guy. Let's just say you got a you got a service that I really need to get to my next step right? to do before me just cuss you out and spit on you? Know, I mix right? I still need you to be you know what I'm saying? And I understand that's tough. You know, so I can't I can't expect you to not have a little human in you right now. So I got to come in and get your laugh. You know, man, can I still need what I need? But see people that ain't got their skill set. I mean, I bet she just knew she just got spit on. You know what I mean? You gotta respect the fact that she's human, or he or whatever. You know what I'm saying? And I get that, because it can be challenging. Trust me, I get that. However, I need my knees. Oh, are you okay? Do you know what I'm saying? But not everybody got this skill set. So they're going to get knotted up. They didn't get what they need. And they're going to go go back. Now they said back another six seven months is getting hit all kinds of ways. And if you ain't got rules, he's gonna blow you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, somebody's standing in the gap. See that's the thing. And what another thing that really pisses me off the people that's supposed to be standing in the gap, just getting paid to stand in the gap. We're just there. And they know what to say. And it's like, come on, man. Really? And that's another thing that's that's just horrible when you said like the guy but he's a girl some shoes, right? She's, she's, she's and she's while I'm doing the bike thing. I had a good friend Friend. I make money. So so I'd be alone. Cuz my family, you know, and I see this girl. I see. I see you guys we're about to laugh. And so I get her. As a matter of fact, I'm back. I'm taking it and trying to get some shoes, right. And then I'm gonna let her in. And I know she's getting a shoe. That's why she ain't got no damn shoes on, but had been so long. They knew me and told them you know, so I went on at bought shoes. I was gonna spend 25 and she found stuff for 20 And I guess he tried to give me the five bucks. And I'll just keep that, you know, and, you know, I don't know that you're gonna do it, but you know, just just consider that, you know, some you can do, let's stuff like that. I don't have any god damn money, but I Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 22 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai had enough to where, you know, I could be a blessing to her. You know, Sam because in people with the money you're looking at it, you know, it's like come on man but I Isaac Tadé 55:24 it just humanizing experiences S Sean Johnson 55:27 all the time. Cuz they're human man. What gets me is the women that think that the lights go you know and and they just think that their take took their their self worth knowing like the girl that she didn't know she has to do this one time. I hate somebody gotta get paid all kinds of shit on the bike right? And he's got this girl and I'm gonna give it to give it to her. I forgot what it was, but I couldn't use it right? And I'm gonna give it to you better as I turn like that, dude, I'm not exaggerating at all. As I turned to get you're gonna find it right. And as I turn around, she's naked. And this is the sidewalk. She like two feet off the sidewalk. Now, what are you doing? I don't know. You don't have to do anything. But first of all, how did how did you get here? I Isaac Tadé 56:24 That's what I'm thinking. S Sean Johnson 56:27 But she just thought that no one could be nice to her. Without taking her whole goddamn soul. In that sad man. Yes. Yeah. But I gave it to her. I Isaac Tadé 56:41 Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Um, here's a big one. And of course, if you feel you know, uncomfortable with any questions or whatever, go for it. Go for it. Um, I was just gonna ask, what role does race and racism play in homelessness? S Sean Johnson 56:59 For me, as a black man, I think it's it's America. You know, so it's got to be worse. And the darker you are, you know, say However, what I've noticed is, is less race than it is economic. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, we don't get a little bit worse. But I still think that the the women and the handicap, and the kids get the worst of everything. Cuz for Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 23 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai me, even though I'm black, and you may not like me. Yes, sir. She's just not gonna do to me. You know, I'm, that's not gonna happen. But there are people out there that they came like to the girl getting ready to attend. They can't say no. I Isaac Tadé 57:48 You know what I mean? So and you don't think you'd be in that position? Because your male? S Sean Johnson 57:52 Your hell yeah, I know. I'm not. I'm gonna go to the gym when I leave here. You don't say they pick it. That's what a fucking coward. They pick and choose who they gonna be King Kong around, you know, King Kong King Kong all the time. You know what I'm saying? So why can't you be King Kong now? But you can be King Kong with her. I would love what you don't say. Because King Kong I mean, romance. But you know, he gonna do what he do I Isaac Tadé 58:23 Rght. S Sean Johnson 58:23 He didn't do it when when it's when it's beneficial. He can do it all the goddamn time. So that's that's another thing, man is this. Is this bad, man? I don't know. But but the race thing is America. So so but but with this, you know, is is more of a handicap and the women and the kids. That's just me though. I Isaac Tadé 58:47 That's what you see. S Sean Johnson 58:47 Yeah. Good. Good. Good. Good. get worse. Okay. Yeah. I Isaac Tadé 58:52 Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 24 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Thank you. Um, how would you describe your spirituality? S Sean Johnson 58:56 saving me. You really is me because that's what I see. I know. I'm going to live an abundant life. But in that, that service. You know what I'm saying? And that's because the moment I was a mama was right here, not what she's writing right now. Boy, but the thing is, though, like when I was young, she just dragged me to church. My dad didn't go if dad didn't go, why did I have to go, that's a woman thing, you know, but I went to church, kicking and screaming. But what happened is, when I was in there, he got into me. You know what I'm saying? And I know that when I had that cancer piece, like my grandmother when she was old, and she just beat up praying all the time, and I'm like, you know, go home and pray. And so, you know, like I said, I go to church twice, twice on Sundays. You know, because I know that but the grace of God, I am alive. You know what I'm saying? Again, I've been times where I probably shouldn't have made it out of some of the places. You know what I'm saying? And I, I believe in prayer. You know what I say? cuz I've seen fruit from it. You know what I'm saying? So that's what keeps me not doing taking the shirt, it keeps you grounded, because I understand how to race is really one. And I understand that. And so when I see good people, I sponge off because even though I joke about how my friend is super hot, which she is, she's so smart. But you know what I'm saying because of her. You know, I eat different. I take care of my whole advocate when I told her I said, Go I'm an illusion. You know, you're the real thing. I need to get the real thing cuz cuz delusion go play out a little bit here. But for me, I want the real thing. And that's what I see in you is man, she got eaten and you know, I'm sorry that right now cuz I met her yesterday. But But you know, and, and Kates are good. But I'm around good people like that. And they did. They went Thursday, Tuesday, I went over to turn over. Northeast, right? I'm going for 10 minutes. I got to do. But when I get around good, people just go to chopping it up. It is two hours later. But you know what I'm saying? Right? But because of the pandemic, and when you round when I'm around good people, the time just, you know, me. And I told her that I was coming in for 10 minutes, you know, and here it is, you know, two hours later putting it on, I gotta go. You know, but it's just, I just like being around people, especially when you just happen to see people getting through. Especially when you hear all this deaf and this and that. Yeah, you just happen to see people still around man and his family to me. You know, it really is. I don't say that. You know, casually or any of that cuz that girl, man, that ain't gonna say that was the only smile she had that day. But no, she got that one smile that day. You know what I mean? And she deserve a smile, man. Come on, do this. Come on. But little things like that, you know, and I cry too damn much, man. Picture me check this out. So me, right. And I'm at the library and I'm looking at them and, you know, they look at me, you know, but I cry that it has to do with my spirituality, my my grandmother and my, yes. You know, they see Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 25 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai me crying they like but I'm okay with that. Because I understand. In the long run, we should cry. I mean, if you make you feel like crap, you know, you got to express yourself. But but but for me talking about the brain and the heart and the body stress. I Isaac Tadé 1:02:58 All that? S Sean Johnson 1:02:58 Yeah. As he was was I realized I won't be able to enjoy my life, but I don't have one. I got it. I got all that shit in there, dude in the mirror. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. If you've been honest with him, you gotta let things go. And I had a cousin. Dude, he was in here for 10 years. I want to hurt is really, really, really bad. Because what he did is tell me just pray for him every day. So let me pray for him. Everything's pretty good things for him every day. Even if you don't mean it, do it every day. Then over time, it'll it'll become it'll become natural. Yeah. And then one day, I was walking with a friend of mine, a family member of mine. And he drove by. And I went over and we faked like we go first cousin flip on the same plane again. Anyway, we did the whole Hey, how you doing a senior while Day bla bla bla. And then he left and I left. And it wasn't until me and Cliff, I called me Hearld, walked up another two blocks that I realized the whole lot. We was talking knocking him out of dragging him out of the car never crossed my mind. You know what I mean? So it works, you know? And so, we it took 10 years to get there. Okay, dude, I will lose sleep. I will Oh, you know, you know, but she'd said that. And so, I tried. I understand. Philosophy guy over St. Thomas says 10% things, you know, 10% things, you know, you don't know, but it's 80% that you don't even know you don't know it. So I read it when he said that it was and I thought I was you know 80% I don't even know I don't know. But once you look at life like that, is easier. You know, I mean, to to get by and to let things go and to not have to be right and, and to see misery in and call it what it is and if you can help be helpful to me. But that's the whole spiritual piece but it is at 5:30 tonight. It's Thursday, right? Yeah. Cuz I do that because it's good people there. And it's a spiritual fight. You know what I mean? If you ain't got your ship straight they ain't playing games you know, they whooping ass and taking name. So what you want to do so but that's what I do. I cannot do what it takes to gas up my tank. So why would I go to this train is trying to Super she's super hot but why would I go to her to get my body right in my brain a right my teeth you know I Isaac Tadé 1:05:39 if your spirit a right? Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 26 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai S Sean Johnson 1:05:40 yes. And then I can go to lay again see this girl that just made this just me you know just a little little something different give her the joiner life you know me? But that's what it is though. No, that's that's what we are. Oh, I see people forget that. Because we were made for that. You know you ain't made to see these girls eating like that and see the Oh, that's an opportunity to see and this guy gives me about to do to get the apartment. They know these girls know what you're doing. And when I'm wanting to get one. So chill here Tinker there. But for the price of being warm. Yeah, you take her soul. Let her stay cold. You know what I mean? Leave the girl alone! No, man. I mean, come on. But to get there. And I do do pieces, you know. You know but but then again, he somebody you know, but it sometimes it gets tough for me to want to treat him right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I'm gonna pray for you tomorrow, but for the day, I think I might want whoop you, you know, you might need as well. Yeah, but but you see it all the time. Yeah, you can see me walking around like balls, you know, like King Kong. Yeah, exactly. It's like, come on, man. Too much of that. Yeah, that goes back to the women and kids you know me and handicap? You know? I Isaac Tadé 1:07:01 Yeah. But you'd say your spirituality is centered around good people. S Sean Johnson 1:07:06 Yeah, okay, go worse group. I know God worst Kates an angel. She literally is the woman I'm gonna go to the night. Oh, that was the one is two ladies and a brother. They're angels. You know, they really are. And I know for me, God works through people. And to some people, I'm an angel. You know, I try not to say things like that. Because I don't want to come across you know, it's not about me. Yeah. Cuz this whole thing we do it. You know, I'm gonna be okay. Trust me on it. However, I need to make sure that she at least got a shot in case anybody's talking for her. You know, I mean, they really not. In any nobody talks about a girl that's getting raped by one as opposed to 12 or the kid. Yeah, and that's a whole nother You know, that's a whole nother level. You know what I mean? But or the handicapped do that getting out as many when you get a fainted I like it. And I look one time, it was all fucking 20s, I am like dude put your money in your pocket. You know, here's what happens with me, right? When I'm walking down the street people could just do and I'm not saying this to pat myself on the back. But there will be a dude way across the way Hey, Shawn, this my friend. what he's doing is he's telling the people around him if you fuck with me you know, so what? I'll do it I notice what he's doing. So I'll go over it I you know, I let them know. Yeah, you know this, we like that. You know what I am saying? So he has a piece? But he shouldn't have to do that. If you're a gorilla with Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 27 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai him. big gorilla with me. But he's not a gorilla just just about being any god damn gorilla. But it's I get that a lot you know God walking with this lady. What does he like one old lady that's one of the good and rely on some bullshit. She noticed that right? That's why that's why you have to you know, yeah, cuz she's wasting of time. We need good people that do a good day. Don't bullshit. I gotta wait, you know? Cuz she ain't got time for you to figure out that she needs you to see her as human. She need people see what she is told. You see, okay, they see me boom. Not Okay, maybe she did something that just you no, no one could do anything to you know mean to deserve to be treated like that man. Or you know, and sometimes you know, it's tough man but I could look in the mirror like I was telling you earlier the day my phone rung and use that look at no matter No, no and that's it but but but I don't know don't know mo so my phone like I just answer it. You know what I'm saying? Could I know anybody like me? You know, and I don't know. You know me. But it's a piece that come with it because like for the last quite a few years. You have New Year's Eve. Everybody go around what you want some peace that's it? you can ask me right now we're in a bar you got you know you got I want some with peace we could have a good day we you know, but if he got no peace. That's how you do you just said you wanted a big booty girl you know, but you got peace who knows what's around? Peace man. Yeah, you know? I Isaac Tadé 1:10:42 That's, that's beautiful. Um, thank you for sharing that. How would you? How would you say that the covid 19 pandemic has affected you. S Sean Johnson 1:10:53 It made me a better person. I Isaac Tadé 1:10:54 Really? S Sean Johnson 1:10:55 Dude, I haven't had a cold. I shouldn't say that. But it made me because of that, guess what I'm reading best when I'm reading them two hours a night now. You know, I said, That's why I do yoga as much as I do now. That's why, you know, I'm, I'm in tune to, I've had time to look in the mirror. You know what I'm saying it and actually, what's what's really going on here? Cuz this shit doesn't last forever? You know, says how do you really want this game to play out? You know, but it also led me to see the inhumane more of the Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 28 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai humaneness of people to you know what I'm saying? And like I say, I took the virus shot. Everything in me told me not to do that. You know what I'm saying? It really did cuz I don't trust the system at all. I just don't I mean, rightfully so. Yeah. You know, and so but but like I said, cuz I had the cancer. I don't know, like five nurses like Kate, I can name five, boom, boom, boom, and they all say the same thing. You know, and, and they will when they can, you know? And so on that note, why would I not? Why would I not listen to girl that's got these things behind her name, and Tuskegee. I understand it went down, you know, but because of slavery. I mean, I can't get a job today. I mean, we could live well, what does that stop at? You know what I'm saying? At some point, you gotta, you know, and we looked at the same thing, and just came up with a different conclusion, but I'm not selling people on or not selling people on it. But for me, man, we gotta take you know, and so and that's just the way that is, you know, but um, yes. It really is. Yeah. What was the question? I Isaac Tadé 1:12:41 How's the covid 19 pandemic affected you? S Sean Johnson 1:12:45 Now, so I got I got to see a lot of good people. You know what I'm saying? I got a lot of good people. I went in to get a cigarette, right. And I felt these things right here, right. And wants to brother from the Black Panther die. Yeah, me checking everything. The actor when he got with it, oh, yeah. Yeah. Chadwick Boseman, he when he died, I'm gonna go get everything out. You know. And so as I'm doing that, I had this thing here where they had to put it put the ultrasound jelly on. So I go down to hcmc and a girl, she just so she does a jelly thing. And she's typing, you know, on the computer, and she's close to me is, you know, and this was earlier with the viruses yet and I'm thinking, this girl put her life in danger. You know what I mean? To see if I'm okay. And that that and I didn't realize that until I was in that moment. That nurses and doctors, you know, it's one thing in that case, just like with the homeless, you hear it, but to actually see it in there. And when it was over, God jokingly said, well, you don't go into rob a bank or I'm going to Target but if you if I got this, I'm gonna wrap my glove, you know? So you know, it never came because she she didn't they didn't she took the results to the doctor, whatever she says she's coming back. I say, Well, shit, am I robbing the bank or not? You know? And they say, Well, I can't tell you that but you know if they look good from what I can tell you that's what I told him that well, I just want to say that I appreciate what you do. You know what I'm saying? Imagine that she knew danger of going to work every day. Yeah, she don't know me. You know any of these people in in in the hallway waiting or whatever their waiting room? Yeah. You know what I mean? But then she just you know, she just casually but then it then it made Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 29 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai her day and, you know, our, but yeah, no one has ever said. But it's little, but it's the little things that can make a person they or as I said earlier is a little bit that can actually break. Yeah. So choose, I choose my words to be inspiring or helpful because even when dude I could have said a whole bunch of things. I knew what he was doing, as he said that robbing Kate, your robbing my friend. You know what I'm saying? But so I tell what I said was I say dude has nothing, nothing to do with a tag. And if you hurt me was still in it Get the hell out of him. Drag you and that's what I was saying there. Because you're robbing my friend. And you're robbing my family that need that. You know, but but you have to be politically but he did at least got but it but it was so full. We'll be here to Monday in a regular way. I don't know if you got to laught. But I like that you do that dental thing? No. Because even with me, cuz I saw the thing that got me my cousin had some shitty teeth. And every time I saw him, I go brush my teeth, you know? But But people don't think about them. And like I said, it's just one of those things that they So focus on just not getting raped or getting kicked out of the crib in the morning. Just got down. Somebody had been grinding since yesterday. So so the things that will make their quality of life better. like to eat the burger or to not have to. But Dude, you walk around. Get that chip. Yeah. You see that on people that? You're way too young? for that? Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Right. But I can't judge because maybe the choices that you had to make and the choices I had to make it you know, it's you know, Grand Canyon, as opposed to you know, that the hill over there? You know, and that's why I don't I try not to judge. But you get to see it all. You really do. So I was I did. But it was awful. So, you know, yeah. I Isaac Tadé 1:17:16 You talked about this a little bit already. But like, what are you most proud of? S Sean Johnson 1:17:21 Me? That I am still I was able to as we sit here today, on the 18th I can honestly look myself in the mirror and know that I didn't bring any extra undue harm to people. Why don't you just go knock that out, too. Don't speak for me. You know, say this girl needs a hug. Hug and to be left alone? To me, can you put it in a mouth or anywhere? I She needs a fucking hug and to be left alone. You know? And so I can honestly say that. And as a human, you know, I understand that I was open enough. And when it's open enough, I mean, spiritually, mentally, socially, to see people as people as opposed to them that us down less than, you know what I mean? That that has something so easy to do now. You know, and like I say, My family has expanded, you know, so I'm most proud of the fact that I'm kind of okay, with the way I'm still looking at people and see them as human and if I can help them I do. And I can walk around town anywhere. And I'm okay. And if no matter what it is, it's a good thing. You know what I mean? And I'm proud of that because some Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 30 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai of them I just want them to trust All right, this dude now as I come into the house I see three guns I say okay. I ain't have a gun. So if something go down. Now, he's a gang member with these guys. Were in the game, right? I Isaac Tadé 1:19:15 When was this? S Sean Johnson 1:19:18 it's about seven months ago. Okay. And some go down. This is my hook and put his hands on me. He grabbed grabbed my shirt. I get him off. I said are you fucking serious dude, but I'm sorry three guns, right? Guess who got no gun. That would be me. So just leave. The next day. I got my bike taxi right I roll the phone. Don't you ever think about putting your hands on me again? He beat me up and I but he but he grabbed me in front of his boss. Is he gonna do all this shit to me on the street. He was saying I'm thinking in my mind, you're going to get the fuck out his house. The next day I roll up on him. And he looked up, he see me now and I tend to dislike this. I say you had a lot of gusto last night, but if you ever tried to shit again, we don't have a problem. Now, he didn't expect it. But I will say this about him, though. He understood that this could go either way. But it ended up going the right way. Because he respected the fact that I came at him like that. You see what I'm saying? And and even after that, I don't I still you still out here. But I walked up on him right. Now he didn't have a clue. He was sitting in a bus stop. You know, I'm still thinking that I see too many people get hurt, just let it slide. And then I'm looking at it right. And you don't have a clue. I'm here today. He don't have a clue. Now know what he was on next time. But I'm standing there looking at anything. If I do this. Then the first day popped into my mind was when I heard that just to my brother. You got 289 months? Yeah. And that popped into my mind, as they didn't say worth, it's too easy. And I walked off. And then I was about and we our paths crossed about three, four different times. And then he came up to me with his boys in the daylight, right? He talking to shit. So what I did was, I got ready to swipe. You know, oh, you just got to say you get into getting a no fly zone. We don't see it. And he saw that. Then he you know, he pumped the brakes. And then I saw him a few times. Now he's respectful. It was about a bottle a month of that. Then I saw him one night. I say I say Dude, I'm glad you're a man. Because you wouldn't shit would have went all kinds of bad bad. You know what I'm saying? And we shook hands. You know what I mean? And we're good now. You know, but feet have been an idiot. But that can't be too big. I'm not gonna be the victim do but if we got to be respectful, that's one thing. But if one of us got to be a bitch, you got to put the high heels on. Cuz I'm not. You see what I'm saying? So let's just stay respectful. Do you know what I mean? You know, but but he got that. And so like I said, we good now. But it took that. You Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 31 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai know what I mean? Can I give a big man a little, you no, everybody be men and go, but if you're gonna make somebody be a bitch, I'm not putting on high heels. But you know what I'm saying? Yeah, you have I Isaac Tadé 1:22:46 the awareness to get yourself out of situations that might get you in trouble. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, and that's something to be proud of. S Sean Johnson 1:22:54 Oh, yeah. Like I say, there are no extra holes in me. That petty misdemeanor is the only real thing I can he's killing me dude, it is I just found out they can't even started up until the first of month to get it off. You know, but so I gotta go get a shitty job. You know me, but but it is what it is. Like I say back I'm blessed above and beyond. You know, so it is just the next thing on the road to where I got to go. And it's a patience. It really is, you know, but I got a good circle and my trainer. super hot. Yeah, she's super smart. She's a good trainer. Anyway. I'm talking about Yeah. I Isaac Tadé 1:23:51 Okay, all right. Um, I guess my next question was about like health commons. How did you get involved with health commonss? And then after that, how do you think that we could improve health commonss? S Sean Johnson 1:24:05 Yes, this place right? Yep. I got here cuz this dude here, uncle. Yeah, he bought me here. Cuz it gave out bus tokens. You know, he said certain people think differently. So these are bus tokens here. And so that's why I came. But once I got here, I saw the benefit of Kate. Katie, you know, and the group thing or whatever. But um, anyway, just somewhere to go where they had grits. There's nothing here. I'm from the south. So you didn't get him to and and they were consistently they were consistent God cuz, you know, I like consistency. And I don't like surprises. You know what I mean? Yeah. Not not in that kind of situation. You know, and but what I would what I like about it is they were consistently decent people. You know what I mean? And, and to improve it. I don't know. For me, I think just keep doing what you're doing man but but just but with the understanding of everybody's a human and and their journeys are what I want to say when I say I'm a human. They don't get that that means I kill you. You know what I mean? To kill you to resuscitate you? Humans, you know? Right. All that, but when you but if you say you're human and be Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 32 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai humane, they No, no, no. Do you understand that? Do I mean Hello? When they try to dog shot you with a gun? Oh, you know? Except all of who you are. They don't mean you're gonna go around killing people. But But do you understand that? That's on the table. Yeah, I mean, and so for me. I just I just like the idea that I was raised in a way that I could evolve. You see what I'm saying? Cuz too many had to do. And he told me, he says, Matt was raised like this. I no, dude, he just completely screw everybody. Everybody around him. He just take it, you know? It's like, dude, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We can hang out. Because A back to the high heels. Why can't everybody just be respectful for me? My mama raised me Do your 53 at some point, you got to take responsibility for this shit. You do he's stealing from everybody. But no, no, no, no, no. You will know how I was raised. You know how my dad taught me to deal with that? Do you really want to know? You know what I'm saying? Is so... I Isaac Tadé 1:26:59 we gotta be more than we are. Yeah, yeah, we gotta be more than that. S Sean Johnson 1:27:06 Yeah, cuz cuz at the time when my dad raised me at that time, that was the best that was that. But it's thirty years later. You know, I'm saying and so for me to still be doing the shit I was doing at 12 good. That's, you know, come on, man. It but but it was working for you know if you can just go take everybody shit and just people. I mean, what? No, no, no, no. Okay, here's how this is gonna work. This ain't gonna work. Because Yeah, but it just was in my mind. I couldn't believe you said that new 53 years old. Mama raised him like that. Get the hell out of here, dude. He just taken and but to do what he was dealing with. Yeah, were his friends. They were all handicap. And I'm like, come on, man. This this. This just ain't right. Do they get the money? He do. He got dude's EBT card and his cash. Dude asking him to get his shit back. Like come home and get a man. You know, he don't know how to handle it is. I got the handle this way. You know, you know, he's a problem. But anyways. People take advantage of people. I Isaac Tadé 1:28:27 Is there anything else you'd like to say that I didn't ask? S Sean Johnson 1:28:32 I don't know. We kind of went all over the place. Yeah, we talked about a lot. But what I use what I will do that I can't think of that right now. But I think I think some of the main Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 33 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai things I don't know if they were said or not, was just to see people as human. And understand that everybody has a story. And understand as humans, that's a hell of a spectrum. It is. You know what I'm saying? If you don't believe that turn on CNN. You know, like, you know, but uh, but that's it, man. Just be genuine with people. You know. Don't try not to judge. You know, but I think like I said, I think anything that has a good spirit behind it is going to bear fruit. You know what I'm saying? That's why Kate. Kate, I think has God's favor on her. I surround myself people like that. You got God's favor? Hello. Hey, you know what I mean? Bring it you know. Now you know, Kate. Nice. You know, I've never told her that. But, uh, but I think she I know she does. You know, I mean, and. But she's not alone. She's not a unicorn. You know? She's really not. But we're not like, people like that. Can we get God's favor you know, who knows what kind of But let's see when you got good. That's why that dream thing to dream beyond your dream. You see what I'm saying? I never would have thought somebody look like that, No, you know, but I meant I meant that trend is super hot. I'm supposed to. I met Kate when I supposed to meet you when I was supposed to. You see what I'm saying? Don't people less older like I tell him all the time they were like angels to me? Yeah, you don't say cuz when he was going down, they had to close it down but she came out and it was given out some sandwiches or some old shit like that. Right? But that's not what I meant me to cover I needed. I needed you know, a conversation. Yes. I Isaac Tadé 1:30:38 Some human connection. S Sean Johnson 1:30:40 Yes. And so she's like, Do you need anything to say? And I don't know, can I just get what I need? You know? What I mean? Yeah, just keep this here going. You know, it seemed when she met me. I was on the bike with the strippers on the back. And she's like a pastor lady, you know, and so she's looking actively looking at me, you know? But she never judged me. Then a dude that was higher up than he was like can i by a bike from you? He wanted to turn the bike up she stood up for the bike. You know what I mean? Cuz she had heard stories about to bite what to do with the bike and how to bike race joy, a lot of money to me, but but you know, to me, it's not about going to the strip club. But um, it's just man, just five people that has God's favor on them. I Isaac Tadé 1:31:28 I like that. Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 34 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai S Sean Johnson 1:31:29 You know, I Isaac Tadé 1:31:29 I like that. S Sean Johnson 1:31:30 Yeah. Because that is simple that we we over we over complicate that keeps it simple man. Keeps it simple. And God can be done. You know, and get what gets me through life time because dates. I get blessed all the time. Like yesterday, I had a need and like a need. And he took care of it. I didn't see it coming. I really did. And see guess what happens with me? No, you know, it happens all the time. But But yeah, man, I thank my mom for that because Karie and all the people that have been the other day the girl says, You got to train her. And I do my trainer. Yeah, got that trainer that's hot. But you're my trainer. Isaac, you know, Kate's my train. You know what I mean? I did girl that was even with the hands. That's my trainer. Do you know dude with the with the tags? Yeah. Yes, my train. You know what I'm saying? Cuz he's gonna take all that kicking this crazy day here. To do what he supposed to do I Isaac Tadé 1:32:35 you're saying. We can learn from every situation for the people around us. S Sean Johnson 1:32:38 Isaac! He works thought people like Isaac Yes. And when will we get to where we don't understand that we Houston we got a problem. We got a problem. You know, there's nothing I can keep benefit from being you know, took this girl look at her. How could she do right? You just missed out on a blesseing, right? You know what I mean? Right? And people don't get that. Can they see me and now sumali thing? I'm in the shelter with you, you know what I you mean? I'm not passing through the buck over there? You know, well, you know what, suppose I'm gonna go and go to sleep and you know, but yours it's funny. But but but there's guys hope you don't have good people. You know, in your little little workout. You know? Yes, sir. You know? Yes, sir. You know, honestly believe that in spite of everything you see to the contrary? God will be god and he works through people. Isaac Tadé 1:33:44 Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 35 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 1:33:44 Absolutely. S Sean Johnson 1:33:45 But here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna think about this, because it's important. You know, saying if I come up with something okay, because I keep I keep something the right way. And I notice a notebook on his phone somewhere. And I gotta find, I believe, yeah, there we go. Okay, but yeah, so we got somewhere, take notes. Because when you when I hear a joke, because it was joke to me, somebody else might need to hear that to my my benefit. I Isaac Tadé 1:34:19 Yeah. S Sean Johnson 1:34:21 And he says, okay, and I keep that with me. But it also keeps me grounded. You know, sometimes, when you see Uncle, you know, whatever, be an uncle human or whatever. It takes a little something to not, you know what I mean? Be as human as you'd like to be, you know, and so, but, but it's cool. I mean, I feel pretty good about about the decisions I've made. Yeah. I Isaac Tadé 1:34:53 You know what I mean? S Sean Johnson 1:34:54 And that's a good thing. You know, could never be nice. I looked in the mirror every day. But But yeah, so it takes some doing I Isaac Tadé 1:35:07 getting there. Yeah, everything is a work in progress all the time. Yes, sir. I love that. Well, thank you for your time and the rich account of your personal history. Yeah. All right. We're good to go. Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 36 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai S Sean Johnson 1:35:19 Boom. I Isaac Tadé 1:35:20 That's it. Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021 Page 37 of 37 Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Title: Transcript of Oral History Interview with Jenna Nelson, 2021
Collection: Augsburg Central Health Commons Oral History Project
Search Result: Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021) Thu, 3/25 6:41PM 22:09 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, commons, health, augsburg, treat, feel, providing, dnp, practicum, minnesota, community, pandemic, experience, lived, working, poorly, interacted, program, addiction, university SPEAKERS Isaac Tadé, J...
Show more Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021) Thu, 3/25 6:41PM 22:09 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, commons, health, augsburg, treat, feel, providing, dnp, practicum, minnesota, community, pandemic, experience, lived, working, poorly, interacted, program, addiction, university SPEAKERS Isaac Tadé, Jenna Nelson I Isaac Tadé 00:01 Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the Augsburg University central health commons. My name is Isaac Tadé, and I'm a student at Augsburg University. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording and tell us what your position is? Or was at the university? J Jenna Nelson 00:20 Yeah, my name is Jenna Nelson. I am a DNP FNP student in my third year at Augsburg University, and I'm also working as an intern with the health commons. I Isaac Tadé 00:36 Okay, great. Thank you. Before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed and having that interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public. J Jenna Nelson 00:48 Yes, I consent to that. Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021) Page 1 of 13 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 00:50 Okay. Thank you. Can you tell me where you grew up? And who you call family? J Jenna Nelson 00:56 Yeah, so my dad was in the Air Force. And so I grew up on Air Force bases. We lived in Okinawa, Japan. We lived in Hawaii for four years. And then we lived in Fort Walton Beach, Florida. And then we moved to Rochester, Minnesota, where I ended up doing High School. And I was adopted when I was three months old from Chile. So yeah, my family is my older brother, Tony, also adopted from Chile a few years before I was from a different family. And then my parents who are, my dad's from Brainerd, Minnesota, so really Minnesotan and my mom's more Western, Claire City, Minnesota, a small farming town. So yeah. I Isaac Tadé 01:42 Great. Thank you. How did you end up at Augsburg University. J Jenna Nelson 01:46 So, I like the Twin Cities. I went to the University of Minnesota for my undergrad. And I heard a lot of good things about Augsburg from other people that I've met living up here. And then I worked for about 10 years after I graduated with my Rn, and wanted to live back in Minneapolis. So it just kind of was close. And I liked how the program sounded. I Isaac Tadé 02:14 Great. Thank you. How did you become involved with Health Commons? J Jenna Nelson 02:18 So for one of my classes for the DNP FNP program, Katie was the instructor and part of the class was to kind of actually be involved in the community and see different ways you can work with community members. And so one of the places she told us about this, the Health Commons, and we can get practicum hours for it too. So that's kind of how we got started with it. I Isaac Tadé 02:46 Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021) Page 2 of 13 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Okay. And what can you tell me about your experience at Health Commons so far? J Jenna Nelson 02:51 so far, it's kind of crazy this last year, because things changed with the pandemic, pretty significantly. But before the pandemic, it seemed fairly busy, you know, you could see there's a need for this. And just kind of the relationships I saw Katie have with people who come here frequently, even interacting with people that are new to the Health Commons using some of those kind of services that they provide. I just think it's really important work she's doing. It's needed in the community, and it would be awesome if there were more places like this in most communities, because there's a need really, for this. I Isaac Tadé 03:37 How long have you been at Health Commons? J Jenna Nelson 03:40 I think I did start in 2018. I volunteered a little bit after I did some practicum hours here. And then I was free. I took a year off from school. And then when I started again, that summer, I came back so I think it was summer of 2019. I came and volunteered a couple times. And then with the internship, right when I saw that email, I kind of jumped on it and said I want to do it. So I was fortunate I get picked. I Isaac Tadé 04:07 So you're here again! J Jenna Nelson 04:08 Yeah, I am here now, yeah. I Isaac Tadé 04:10 Okay. How was Health Commons presented to fit in with your curriculum? And how well do you think your experience at Health Commons relates to what you were learning? J Jenna Nelson 04:20 Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021) Page 3 of 13 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Yeah, so the Health Commons was, again, the Augsburg DNP FNP program specifically wants to focus on holistic community health. Family Nurse Practitioners are meant to provide preventative health care to community members. And, you know, the U.S. doesn't have a universal health care system. Obviously, there's huge groups of people who are not getting primary care, preventative care, even just kind of basic health counseling. So this kind of fit into that part of this program where they really wanted to emphasize being involved in the community, working directly with the people that you're serving, and kind of addressing those underlying problems with certain groups of people not getting the care that, you know, they need. I Isaac Tadé 04:54 So it sounds like the curriculum has really aligned with the mission of Health Commons here. J Jenna Nelson 05:23 Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I would say the, and vice versa, too. I guess that would make sense. But yeah, this is really, I think the direction that they want to go with this specific program, the FNP DNP program. And I would say it's, it might be one of the only kind of parts of the program that really do. Like, it's it is what it says it is. It's not... I feel like sometimes programs can kind of, you know, they try to advertise, and they say, "We do this, we're involved in this," but then you're in the program, and you're like, "You do that for an hour, like one semester." That's not what you signed up for. But I feel like this is definitely kind of what they're preaching in the program. I Isaac Tadé 06:06 So walking the walk? J Jenna Nelson 06:07 In action, yes. I Isaac Tadé 06:08 Yeah. Okay, thank you. How did your experience at Health Commons fit or challenge your expectations? Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021) Page 4 of 13 Transcribed by https://otter.ai J Jenna Nelson 06:17 Um, I would say it challenged my expectations. It kind of fit it, too. I mean, so working with people directly, especially people who've been marginalized, treated poorly by healthcare providers, and basically anybody who, you know, works with a certain entity, like a hospital or the government or something, I feel like, people are pretty, not defensive, but just cautious around new people. And so I guess I was surprised that people coming to Health Commons and using its services were as open as they were, to me. And then every now and then I would be surprised and taken aback if somebody...if I did something or said something that offended someone really strongly. But yeah, I guess it kind of was what I thought it would be. Which is good. Because, you know, like I said, a lot of times, people say that they're doing something, and it involves all these details, and then you do, and that's not really what they said it was, and this was exactly, you know, working with people directly and meeting them where they're at. I Isaac Tadé 07:24 And you said that a lot of people met you and trusted you and accepted the care that you were providing. Which wasn't your expectation? What do you think it was that made you approachable? As a health care provider? J Jenna Nelson 07:44 Yeah, specifically in this environment, I would just say...Katie, pretty much. They trust Katie, a lot of people here really trust Katie, and they really don't trust anyone else that is "providing". I'm doing quotes, you're providing services for them. But I think because of the direct relation and where I'm coming from. That might have been why. Also, usually when I meet people, I'm fairly quiet, and I try to let them direct the conversation or the interaction. So that might help. I Isaac Tadé 08:22 Yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing. Did you feel as though people felt welcomed into this space? Do you have any suggestions on how we could do that better? You've already touched on this a little bit. J Jenna Nelson 08:36 Yeah, I think they do (feel welcomed). And again, the pandemic makes it, it really complicates things in terms of people feeling welcomed. Just because you can only have Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021) Page 5 of 13 Transcribed by https://otter.ai so many people in the room at one time and then because other people are waiting to come in. They can only, kind of, spend so much time there. We try not to rush anyone out. But yeah, it's I think it would have been interesting to be here a lot more before the pandemic to see. I Isaac Tadé 09:04 The contrast. J Jenna Nelson 09:05 Yeah, but I felt like when the Health Commons was in that trailer in the parking lot, like a long time ago, before the church had finished its renovations, even though it was a tiny, cramped space, it felt super welcoming. Like it felt like a good vibe. You walk in there and you know people, it seemed like people felt like they could be there and they were comfortable. I Isaac Tadé 09:27 Okay, what strengths did you learn of, or hear from the people that you met? J Jenna Nelson 09:34 Um, people I met working or just people using the services ? I Isaac Tadé 09:39 Probably both, yeah. J Jenna Nelson 09:43 Well, yeah. I guess for the people that are coming in here that are either currently experiencing homelessness or have, a lot of the strengths are just you know, they're resilient. They still see the good in people even though they've been treated poorly. And hearing some of their stories to like, you know, a lot of institutionalized, like racism or just being treated poorly in all these different avenues. And yeah, they're very resilient. So that's good to see. And then the people working here, I would just say, their strengths are that they keep an open mind. And I don't see a lot of people here at all acting as if they know more than the people seeking services. It's kind of like, more of an even playing field versus going into like a clinic and seeing a primary care doctor or nurse practitioner. Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021) Page 6 of 13 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Nobody's... I feel like nobody's really being talked down to they're just having conversations. I Isaac Tadé 10:50 The relationships between people providing services and people receiving them are often mutually beneficial. Would you say? J Jenna Nelson 10:57 Definitely, yeah. And and I think it's very transparent that that's the case too, I don't think, yeah. That's nice. That's true. I Isaac Tadé 11:06 Thank you. How has this experience changed any biases you may have had about homelessness, or marginalized housed individually? individuals? Excuse me. J Jenna Nelson 11:20 So like working in the emergency department, I've interacted with people that are experiencing homelessness or experiencing addiction, or, you know, they have experienced homelessness. And I think this just kind of helps me have more experience working with people who might have had those lived experiences. I Isaac Tadé 11:45 Do any stories come to mind? Um, I'm about bias or... J Jenna Nelson 11:52 like, well, I guess something, I Isaac Tadé 11:54 Maybe something that changed your perspective? J Jenna Nelson 11:56 Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021) Page 7 of 13 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I guess some stuff. Just interacting with people here and like people opening up the people seeking services, I think I became more comfortable caring for that population in the ER. Like, I didn't realize that I wasn't comfortable with it, or I didn't realize that I was like, I was maybe just not, I don't even know, opening up enough. Like when you're a nurse, and you're working with a patient who comes to the ER, for example, like you can tell if they want to interact with you a lot. They can tell if you want to narrate their care. And sometimes when people would come in and they were homeless, I just would leave them alone, because I was like, "Oh, they're tired, they're resting or like, I'm just gonna wait for, you know, when we get the results back from their labs are x ray." But after being here, I realize no, I mean, each individual is different, regardless of whether or not they're housed or homeless or suffering from addiction. And so then I feel like I was more open to letting them kind of run the show in terms of how the interaction would happen. And I remember, like, after doing some volunteering at the Health Commons, I was working in the emergency department. And this guy came in and he was missing, I think he was missing all the toes on one of his foot. And the other foot, he was missing almost all of them too. There like there were two left. And he had just gotten off a bus from...it was either Mississippi or Louisiana. Literally the community that was serving him down there gave him a bus pass and said, "You can go wherever you want." And so he said, "I came to Minnesota, because I've heard they have really good resources up here. They treat people well." And I think it was a middle of winter too. And I'm just like, oh my God. So he had come in because he was having like, some pain in his foot. He had a little bit of an ulcer who was diabetic. So the wound healing was poor. And like, I got him a bunch of warm blankets. And I was like, "Do you want anything to eat?" I got him some food, some emergency room food, which isn't great, but I got him food. And I think every time I came in there, he was just like, taken aback, like, Is this real? And so I wonder how he's how he was treated previously, you know, in emergency room settings or in other healthcare type settings. But it was really funny. Like, I think he he thought I was like, I don't know, like, super nice. I'm like, "No, this is how we treat people here, you know, typically." I Isaac Tadé 14:13 So it sounds like originally, you had just kind of interacted with the population when necessary to provide the care. J Jenna Nelson 14:25 Yeah. I Isaac Tadé 14:25 Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021) Page 8 of 13 Transcribed by https://otter.ai And now it seems as though you've kind of gone past that maybe eliminated some of those biases that you didn't even know you had. J Jenna Nelson 14:33 Yeah. I Isaac Tadé 14:34 And you're more interactive with the population, which provides better, like relationships for you. And probably better care as well. J Jenna Nelson 14:43 Exactly. Yeah. Like I think, just working with other people in general, especially when related to their health. It's like...you kind of have to step back and look at what your role is and how you might appear to them. And I think I didn't want to be a bother. A lot of times when people were coming in, because again, I was like this is their only time where they're getting, like shelter for maybe four or five hours or something like that. So I would just want to leave them alone. But then exactly like, the more I actually was here and had conversations with people, the more I recognize that it depends on the person, but a lot of people are craving like social interaction. And this is one of the places where they would get it would be like a health care setting. I Isaac Tadé 15:30 Wow, that's beautiful. Thank you. How would you suggest we can better accompany people on their journey of health, for example, adding more hours or adding outreach services? J Jenna Nelson 15:46 Adding more hours would be good. I know that takes people and money and time and stuff. But yeah, I think adding more hours and locations, which was mentioned before, too. And yeah, like being involved with the encampments, as well as, you know, providing meals. With the COVID, providing immunizations, if we have some bringing it out to them versus expecting them to come here. But yeah, basically just being more even more visible in the community than they already are, would be good. Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021) Page 9 of 13 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 16:21 Outreach more? J Jenna Nelson 16:22 Yeah, yeah. I Isaac Tadé 16:23 Okay. What, if anything, will you take forward with you, from your experience? For example, has this experience impacted your future career ideas or personal goals? What was the most valuable part of your experience? Actually, I'll just ask that first question. What, if anything, will you take forward with you from this experience, J Jenna Nelson 16:49 Um, just, again, that people are extraordinarily resilient, like mentally, physically, and that, again, everybody has a story, and everybody has a reason for being the way that they are. And even if it comes off as harsh or rude, or, like, you know, they're having a really bad time. So just keeping that in mind, not taking things personally, and trying to, you know, individually, respond to somebody versus assuming, making kind of stereotypes you know, about what they might need, based on how they look. I mean, when I look at someone, now I look at them, and I'm like, I have no idea what they want, I need to I need to communicate with them. Whereas before, I might have made assumptions. Is that a practice that you learned here? Or through Augsburg orsomething else? Definitely, with the programs. I think it's 803 is the class, I can't remember 802 or 803. But yeah, like, any of the practicum hours that we did, especially with the Health Commons, I feel like kind of foster that. So. I Isaac Tadé 18:01 Okay, thank you. What was the most valuable part of this experience? J Jenna Nelson 18:08 So far, I think it's been seeing, like, the relationships that Katie has with people and then just having time to work with people here. I think it's just, you know, things take time. And to have the chance to do this is awesome, especially to get like, you know, do the internship is amazing. I would have volunteered regardless, but to have an internship to Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021) Page 10 of 13 Transcribed by https://otter.ai for students is awesome. Yeah. I Isaac Tadé 18:37 What was most useful to you? J Jenna Nelson 18:41 I'm probably having Katie, as a, I'd say mentor, like somebody I can ask questions to. And I don't have to be afraid that maybe I just sounded like I'm stereotyping someone. Like it's a very open conversation. And if I have questions about, you know, how she interacts with people when they treat her a certain way, I know, it's an open space. I don't know what they call it in the woke community. I Isaac Tadé 19:07 Like a safe space space. Yeah. for learning and for... J Jenna Nelson 19:10 Yeah, yeah, there's not... I feel really confident too that there's not judgment. It's more like, okay, like, open your mind. We're learning together here. So, yeah. I Isaac Tadé 19:20 Wow, that's beautiful. What do you think Health Commons could do better? Is there anything missing? J Jenna Nelson 19:27 Um, I don't know. That's a good question. I would have to think about that. Okay. But I mean, yeah, it's just sometimes I like the idea of telling people they can only take so many things like the whole...I think... I Isaac Tadé 19:47 Limited resources? Jenna Nelson 19:48 Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021) Page 11 of 13 Transcribed by https://otter.ai J Jenna Nelson 19:48 Yeah. It's the limited resources and the reason for it is because there's limited resources Funding and like, yeah. But no, I think, again, outreach and of promoting their existence so people know they're here, is good in the community. I Isaac Tadé 19:52 Funding, yeah Is there anything that you would change about the internship experience? J Jenna Nelson 20:12 Um, I don't think so. No, I, I think it's gone really well. It's nice and convenient to be able to schedule online. We have that too. So, no, that's good. I Isaac Tadé 20:24 Okay. Is there any specific story you would share that stuck with you, from your experience at Health Commons? J Jenna Nelson 20:38 Initially when I was doing 803, and volunteering and getting practicum hours, I think it was 2017 or 2018. But I did an oral history for a gentlemen that frequently came to the Health Commons. And I talked to him for about 45 minutes. And once I was typing it up, typing up the transcript, I realized, like... I don't know, some of the stuff that he'd been through was like, he had no control over it. And he had suffered from alcoholism. And he was treated really poorly in a lot of environments because of his history of addiction. And it was just another example of like, how issues with addiction and at least our community, I want to say generally our country, probably worldwide, are just, I mean, we really need to work on how we treat people with addiction issues. I Isaac Tadé 21:36 We punish rather than treat. J Jenna Nelson 21:38 Yeah, and I mean even...Yeah, definitely we do that. Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021) Page 12 of 13 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 21:43 Yeah. Okay. Is there anything else that you'd like to add that we haven't talked about? J Jenna Nelson 21:55 No, I don't think so. I Isaac Tadé 21:57 Okay, I think this concludes our oral history. Thank you so much. J Jenna Nelson 22:03 Yes. You're welcome. Thanks. Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021) Page 13 of 13 Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Title: Transcript of Oral History Interview with Isaac Tadé, 2021
Collection: Augsburg Central Health Commons Oral History Project
Search Result: Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021) Thu, 4/8 5:57PM 33:10 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, augsburg, commons, health, pandemic, haircut, internship, community, person, dentistry, katie, intern, homeless, life, dental, assume, site, dentist, encampment, evicted SPEAKERS Kathleen Clark, Isaac Ta...
Show more Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021) Thu, 4/8 5:57PM 33:10 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, augsburg, commons, health, pandemic, haircut, internship, community, person, dentistry, katie, intern, homeless, life, dental, assume, site, dentist, encampment, evicted SPEAKERS Kathleen Clark, Isaac Tadé Kathleen Clark 00:03 Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the Augsburg University central health Commons. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of nursing. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording and tell us what your position is at the university? I Isaac Tadé 00:20 Hello, my name is Isaac Tadé. And I am a student intern with Augsburg Health Commons at Central Lutheran Church in downtown Minneapolis. Kathleen Clark 00:35 Wonderful, and what year are you in the undergrad? I Isaac Tadé 00:39 I am a senior in the undergrad at Augsburg studying biology and with a minor in religion. Kathleen Clark 00:46 Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021) Page 1 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai And do you know what you'll be doing when you're done? I Isaac Tadé 00:49 I do. After I finished this year, I'll be starting dental school in the fall. Fall 2021 at the University of Minnesota School of Dentistry. Kathleen Clark 01:01 And what are the internships called that you're doing? I Isaac Tadé 01:05 I am a Christensen scholars intern through the Christensen scholars program at Augsburg Kathleen Clark 01:12 And then I think you added another internship was that one through the Strommen center. Is that correct? I Isaac Tadé 01:18 That's correct. Kathleen Clark 01:19 Excellent. Yes. I Isaac Tadé 01:20 Double intern this year. Yeah. Kathleen Clark 01:23 And that, that for me and my role is exciting because you're the first Strommen intern we've ever had. Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021) Page 2 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 01:31 The guinea pig. Kathleen Clark 01:33 Right, so great. Before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed and having the interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public. I Isaac Tadé 01:45 Yes, I consent. Great. Kathleen Clark 01:48 So just to start off, can you tell me a little bit about where you grew up and who you call family? I Isaac Tadé 01:54 For sure. So I'm originally from in Ngaoundéré, Cameroon. That's where I was born. And my family moved to the United States when I was four years old. We lived with my grandmother at their lake home in Bad Lake Minnesota for a summer before moving to Walcott, North Dakota, a small town of 200 people. I went to high school oil, middle school and Kindred, North Dakota. And then I moved to Windham, Minnesota, big town life of 5004 for high school, and that's kind of where I went to high school. And then bouncing around there, I decided to come to Augsburg because I wanted to be in a larger city. And I really was interested in the diversity here. And Augsburg was a D3 school where I could be involved with a lot of things such as the track team, cross country, the choir, things like that. So that's kind of what I've done. That's why I'm here. Kathleen Clark 03:11 Did Augsburg meet those expectations for you? I Isaac Tadé 03:14 Yeah, Yes, it did. Augsburg delivered, and then something I've really enjoyed my time here. Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021) Page 3 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Yeah, I only have positive things to say about about Augsburg again. And I love where I'm at. So that's kind of a part of why I've decided to stay in Minneapolis for the next four years for dental school. So I love it here. Kathleen Clark 03:36 How did you become involved or hear about the health commons? I Isaac Tadé 03:41 So through Christensen scholars, we are given an internship, and it was who was it the internship kind of director? Kathleen Clark 03:56 Jeremey Meyers I Isaac Tadé 03:57 There we go. Thank you. Jeremy Meyers, kind of forwarded in emails saying that there was this potential opportunity to intern at health commons working with people who face to come from different disparities and who, yeah, and just kind of do health care work. And that's really interested me and I wanted to get into the field more, and work with real people. So that's where the connection was made. And then he introduced me to you, Katie. And from there, we've just kind of brainstormed how this internship would work. And this semester, I've been coming in person to help calm and site. Through the pandemic. I've been blessed that I've been able to work with real people, and not just computer screens. Yeah, so that's how I got to help doctors. Kathleen Clark 04:58 And then you've also been involved With the pre dental club, can you tell me a little bit about that as well? I Isaac Tadé 05:06 Yeah, so I've been with the pre dental club since I first came to Augsburg, and I'm currently the president of the Student Organization. Essentially, I want to give other people the Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021) Page 4 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai opportunity to access things such as volunteer hours, information about dentistry, how to apply and things like that. That's kind of what the club does. But through health commons, we've been able to do a couple different events, we've done a clothing drive. That, basically, yeah, we brought in a bunch of clothes and, and help distribute those out, bringing them to health commons and stuff. And pre dental volunteers came along with that. But we also got dental supplies, toothbrushes, floss tooth toothpaste, from the University of Minnesota School of Dentistry, and brought them to health commons, were we made health kits, and distributed those out as well, while helping lead people to their vaccine site when those are available, so that was, I think that was a really great opportunity for pre dental students to just get some more volunteering hours and to, you know, just talk about what are some of the needs that the community has? While we're in person, you know, and having these conversations with the people who are affected by it. Kathleen Clark 06:49 Can you tell me about your experiences at the health commons? I Isaac Tadé 06:53 Absolutely, it's been very insightful, I think that would be the best word. I think I've since moving to the city, I've always seen homeless people around. So when I would go running on the Greenway, or downtown or by the river, I would always see people who are facing housing insecurity. And I always just felt bad. And I never really knew what to do, even when you go to the grocery store, you know, there's usually someone on the corner or something, asking for ways to just get by. And so I always feel bad, but I never really know how I can help or how I can be useful. And so I think this experience has been really insightful. Because before I really thought that, you know, I needed to get my degree. And through that paperwork, you know, I would have the tools necessary to make a change, but that's really not the case. I think, each day, if you just bring a positive attitude, if you are approachable, if you are hospitable. If you are friendly, and and humanizing, you can really make a difference, and to people, even if it's just listening to them and having a conversation. It's helping someone else's life. And I think that's really a beautiful thing. So I think that's kind of been my experience at health comments. Um, it's been really insightful. I think that's kind of where my mindset has switched a little bit. Kathleen Clark 08:44 So has the health commons, been able to fit into some of the course content you've had? As far as are you? Do you find time that you're like, Oh, this is what I would learn at the Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021) Page 5 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai health commons. And now I'm reading about it in class. I Isaac Tadé 09:04 Yeah, I think so. I mean, just generally speaking, our experience mission is to, to see and to serve the neighbor to live with the neighbor. And like I said, being in the city, your neighbors, often homeless people. And so just being aware of that, I think is a big step. And I think that really fits into how Augsburg does about its admission. In the Christiensen Scholars Program, we're reading a book called vintage sinners and saints. And it's basically talking about like, everyday people who have glorified God. Through struggle and through strife and through depression and through old pression So it's just this idea that every person is like a two sided coin, we often see like these glorified figures, but we don't take into the consideration of what their human life is really like, you know, recognizing that people are just human. And I think that two sided coin is very much present with every one of us, you know, we can't just see the best in people, we can't just see the saint. There's also a center behind behind that, that mask, and we can't just assume that someone is a full, fully a sinner, either. And so yeah, I think that's kind of how I see our curriculum in the program being implemented in our, in our work at Christiansen are at the health calmness, because we can't make those assumptions that a person is fully one or the other work. We're complicated. Kathleen Clark 11:04 So do you feel as though people feel welcomed in this space? And do you have any suggestions on how we could welcome people better? I Isaac Tadé 11:13 For sure, um, from what I've seen, people are really treated as fully human at health commons, people are welcomed in with a lot of hospitality. And with a lot of grace and with little to no judgment. And with little to no questions or pressure of their, excuse me, current circumstances. That's from what I've seen, people are met with like a level headedness. And there's no condescending attitude. So I think health comments does a really good job at that. And when I started, Katie, you talk to me about those things. And you talked about how we don't judge here, and we just try to meet the needs of the people where they're at. And we can't assume we know what their needs are. Those things are really important. And I think health commons does an excellent job at that. Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021) Page 6 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Kathleen Clark 12:17 What strengths did you learn of or hear from people that you've met? I Isaac Tadé 12:23 Yeah, I think there are so many people in the homeless community who are absolutely hilarious. They're just so funny, and they're just bright, and funky. And just like, fun people. And I think that humor is an excellent way of showing resilience, and of bringing light into situations or lives that might otherwise be very difficult. And so that's one thing I've really noticed about some of the strengths that people have. I think the homeless community, they really understand their own needs to they they see from a certain perspective that that person like myself, who hasn't experienced homelessness just doesn't have a perspective that I don't have. They talk about how things can improve physically, with their mental health with maybe dependency with spirituality, a lot of social issues they often discuss in detail. And with solutions, it's it's incredible how some of these people aren't politicians, because it seems like everyone has an answer. So I think they have a certain perspective, and they understand their own needs. Very well. Yeah. Kathleen Clark 14:14 So has this experience changed any biases or thoughts that you might have had about people experiencing homelessness, or who were marginally housed? I Isaac Tadé 14:24 Yeah, for sure. Um, I think I'm learning a lot more about this country. While I'm learning about people experiencing homelessness from this country, I realized that it has oftentimes very little forgiveness. One time offenses can land you in jail, which means you have a massive stain on you and your record and it follows you throughout your entire life which is unfortunate preventing you from Getting a job housing insurance. Even seeking health care becomes difficult sometimes because of these things that are often misdemeanors. So yeah, I think oftentimes people think, well, if you're homeless, you deserve it. And why don't you just get out of your own situation, everyone has a hard life. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, this is America, you should be able to get things done. But that's just not how it works. There are so many alternative circumstances that that affect people. And, and as individuals at the time, they may not have the resources to pull themselves out. Um, and this country really isn't forgiving of that. For example, I talked to a woman outside of target. A few days ago, I brought her some granola bars. And she had said that she was working, I think it was staples, or something like that. And then, at the Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021) Page 7 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai beginning of the pandemic, she lived with her boyfriend. But the staples closed because of the pandemic, and budget cuts, and they just couldn't afford to stay open any longer at that time. And so, because of that, she was already pretty short on cash from kind of just working this minimum wage job with her boyfriend, and then they weren't able to afford housing in the city, because it's expensive. And so they were evicted. And then from there, through the eviction process, they lost a lot of their paperwork, and contacts. And it very important thing such as like, social, social security card, and I think she even lost her wallet. And so she wasn't able to apply for funding like assistance funding, or she wasn't able to look for another job. And the pandemic was just raging on, so no one was employed anyways. And everyone she knew, was basically out of reach just because of personal reasons. And she couldn't go visit her mother asked for help, because her mother was in like a nursing home. And so there are those bills to pay as well. So huge, that she had no choice but to be homeless, and be out on the street asking for money, you know, and but I think we just assume, in this society that your life is totally in your own hands to control. And I think that's just not the case, oftentimes, so just trying to be more forgiving. And I wish this country was more forgiving, too. That's what I'm learning. Kathleen Clark 18:18 Do you have any suggestions on how we could better accompany people on their journey of health? Or have you seen anyone be accompanied on their journey of health? I Isaac Tadé 18:34 Yeah, I think just considering health is, well, it should be well rounded. Including things. I mean, physical, mental, spiritual. Health commons does a pretty good job of covering the spiritual and physical right, we have nurses, and we have spiritual leaders in the community in the church. But you know, there, and I suppose they cover the social as well. But I think there's just there's more to it. Um, we could talk about, you know, financial, Can Can we have a financial adviser, or, or a social worker or someone with job assistance? I know and I don't know the full workings of, you know, how it comes or whatever. But yeah, I think it's just important to consider the whole person. Kathleen Clark 19:42 So what, if anything, will you take forward from this experience? For example, has anything impacted your future career or personal goals? Or what has been? Yeah, just most valuable or useful to you? Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021) Page 8 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 19:57 Yeah, I think one of the most important lessons Just to never judge someone based on the position that they're in, and never assume that I know what's going on in their life, or that I can pin their existence down to one or two mistakes in their life or one or two events in their lives. People are so much more than that. For example, I was talking to a person that health Thomas who goes there for services. And he told me about this story when he was riding the light rail, and it was a domestic abuse situation. And he asked this woman Well, why do you? Why do you take this? Why do you keep letting this guy abuse you? And he said, she said, it was better to get abused by one man than by 12. And so that just blew his mind. It's like, well, you want the best for this lady. Okay? If he if he were to cut this guy off, that's her protection from these 11 other, you know, 12 other dudes who could be messing her life up even worse. And so that really taught me quite bluntly, to never assume you know, the best in someone's situation and never assume you have their situation figured out. I think it's always important to ask how you can be of service, what needs Do you have today that I can meet? I think that's a good way to approach conversation. I'm in service, yeah, a conversation in service. I also will just be, I really want to go into community health from this point forward. Like I said, I've always felt like I I noticed people who are marginalized, and I feel bad for them. And then it used to be that I, I just, it just stops there. I just stop and I feel bad. And then, you know, I get over it. But I think at this point, I really want to continue my impact. And I would love to work in a community health setting in the future as a dentist, and maybe even go to public health school. And I don't know, we'll see. But I'm just really interested in the community health dynamic. And I think that's where my heart and skill sets kind of best meet the needs. That I see. If Katie, if you ever see me do cosmetic dentistry, if you ever see me just like doing veneers and like tooth whitening, something had gotten very wrong, because I don't want to be a strip mall dentist, if that makes sense. And that's just not who I want to be. So he ever seen me on a strip mall? Today's teeth in the suburbs that asked me a few questions about how life is going. So that's just who I am. Kathleen Clark 23:40 So can you tell me a little bit too, like I know, for the whole year, you're able to be Christiansen scholar intern. But then this semester, you came on board, like I said earlier and through the Strommen center as our first intern as the health commons engagement specialist. So given that, you know, used to do three hours a week, and now you're doing a significant amount of more, what has this internship on top of your original internship allowed you to do? Isaac Tadé 24:13 Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021) Page 9 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 24:13 Yeah, absolutely. So being in person at health commons. This semester as the engagement specialist, I've been able to expand on the things I was doing last year last semester, doing things such as the oral histories, just telling the stories of the people at health comments. I've been doing a lot of volunteer recruitment, through the pre dental club, just to kind of help Come out, come out and do some of the things that I'm already doing. But just with more numbers, also aiding in COVID-19 vaccine recruitment. We've had a couple days at health commons where we've been fortunate to distribute out vaccines and Volunteers are needed. So those things have all been really impactful for me and have really helped me to kind of ground myself, I think, at the health commons being useful and being of service. And then with my, I suppose free, free time outside of the internship, I've been just reading different pieces that kind of enhance my understanding of the work. I'm actually doing. One of those reading Evicted by Matt Desmond, I read that earlier this semester. And yeah, those are those are the things I've been doing with my time. Kathleen Clark 25:43 And where are you? Have you ever been able to go to the encampments at all? I Isaac Tadé 25:47 Yes, that's another thing. We were able to visit the encampments, just to see what circumstances were like there and to help distribute out water and food and some other supplies that that were needed there. Kathleen Clark 26:02 And what was your thoughts leaving the encampment? I Isaac Tadé 26:08 My thoughts were essentially that there, their encampment community was, is just integrated right into the city. It's like It's its own little corner, in a neighborhood. And it's so present, like, it's, it's right there, it's visible, it's in someone's backyard. And yet, like these inhumane conditions, are so visible, and yet, the problems aren't solved, the problems aren't seen, if that makes sense. So that kind of is what shocked me, just how present the community was, and how detached I think our society is from it. Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021) Page 10 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Kathleen Clark 27:00 So as far as the health commons goes, is there something missing or something we could do better? I Isaac Tadé 27:07 I think health commons does a really great job of like I said, before being welcoming, meeting people's needs, where they're at creating a sense of community and a safe space for community. in so many different ways. I think, maybe like access or connection to more healthcare workers on site would be good, like, maybe having volunteer physicians, or, or dentist or social workers or therapists on site would be would be really beneficial. And I again, I don't know if that happened, or if that's happened before, other times when I'm not around, or what exactly happens, but from what I see, maybe that could be an improvement. I guess my thoughts on that have developed after I made a dental health pamphlet that we handed out with our hygiene kits, and in this pamphlet are probably four or five different places where you can go for anyone can go for reduced or free dental care. And I was handing these out to people. And one of the members from health comments came up to me, and it was just kind of like, Well, you know, this is really great, all the informations right here for you. But to most of these people, it's just another piece of paper. And that was kind of just like a reality check for me and, and the thought that you know, these people really do know their needs. But at the same time, they don't have the direct access to where they can get those needs met. And so giving them a pamphlet isn't all that helpful, it would be more helpful to bring in a dentist directly on site. And so that's one thing I've been thinking about. And I think it would be helpful to have other people on site to like I said, social workers, therapists, maybe yoga instructors, or something. Kathleen Clark 29:22 So is there a story that you'd like to share that really stuck with you? Or is there anything you'd like to add that we didn't ask about? I Isaac Tadé 29:31 Sure, I've already mentioned a few stories. But one more that just happened a couple of weeks ago, was with a gentleman. Probably one of the best dressed people I've ever seen. It's it's incredible that he's homeless. He's always coming in with a fresh pair of slacks and in a dress shirt and everything. But anyways, I noticed that he had gotten a haircut. And I complimented him on it. I said, that's a great haircut. And he said, Well, thank you. Is there Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021) Page 11 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai a place in your Oxburgh where I can get a cheaper free haircut next time? And I said, Well, no, as a matter of fact, I got up charged last time I got a haircut at the shop near campus. And he said, Well, what do you do, and I basically explained how I won't go into all the details. But I didn't get what I wanted in my haircut, and I got charged $50. And they took like an hour and a half. And I asked this guy, if I could get my normal rate of like 30 years something. And that wasn't happening. So I didn't go back to the barber shop. And he just laughed for a long time. And when he caught his breath, he explained to me that I wasn't being wise. That if I was truly wise, I would go into the community, find someone that can come back to the barbershop with me, talk to the owners, negotiate a reasonable price, negotiate a student discount, negotiate, how they, how their business model can improve, and be a responsible capitalist. And so I got this massive lecture by this homeless man, when I was just complimenting him on his haircut, and it didn't really end there either. Because I kind of came back at him a little bit. And I said, Well, I think that would be I think that would be what was the word I used? naive to go back to the to the barbershop and barber shop and assume that they would give me what I wanted the next time. Well, then it turned into Yeah, again, like this massive conversation about responsible capitalism. And then it turns into this thing about argumentation techniques and how if I wanted to convince someone, what I was saying, I needed to phrase things in a certain way or whatever. So that was just a very memorable conversation. I think we talked for about two and a half hours in and out, but it just stem from me complimenting his haircut. So add health comments, you never really know what you're gonna get. Get yourself into. And that's part of the fun about it. I really enjoy the people. And like I said, I've just been really blessed to be able to do this in person through the pandemic, because you just can't get this kind of interaction over a screen. So yeah, I think that's about it. Kathleen Clark 32:48 Wonderful, and your contributions this year have been immense and have been significant and has changed us all for the better so. I Isaac Tadé 33:01 Oh, I'm blushing. Katie. Thank you. Kathleen Clark 33:04 Alright, well, that concludes our oral history. Thank you. Happy to be here. Thanks. Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021) Page 12 of 12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Title: Transcript of Oral History Interview with Ellen Kearney, 2021
Collection: Augsburg Central Health Commons Oral History Project
Search Result: Ellen; Oral History Tue, 4/20 11:18AM 15:33 SUMMARY KEYWORDS commons, experience, augsburg, health, welcoming, remember, homeless, people, feel, interns, coming, work, housed, class, guess, guests, biases, story, spandex, nice SPEAKERS Isaac Tadé, Ellen I Isaac Tadé 00:00 Thank you f...
Show more Ellen; Oral History Tue, 4/20 11:18AM 15:33 SUMMARY KEYWORDS commons, experience, augsburg, health, welcoming, remember, homeless, people, feel, interns, coming, work, housed, class, guess, guests, biases, story, spandex, nice SPEAKERS Isaac Tadé, Ellen I Isaac Tadé 00:00 Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the Augsburg University Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tadé, I'm a student intern with Augsburg Health Commons at Central Lutheran Church in downtown Minneapolis. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording and tell us what your position at the university is? E Ellen 00:10 Yes my name is Ellen Kearney and I'm a current DNP FNP student. I'm in my second year, just finishing up my second year of the program, and I am also currently the one of two health Commons interns. I Isaac Tadé 00:18 Okay, thank you. Can you tell me where you grew up and who you called family? E Ellen 00:46 I grew up in kind of a Mayberry situation in Morningside which is a neighborhood in Edina. I have two younger brothers Tom and jack and then my mom and my dad. We always had tons of animals as well: dogs, cats, chickens, a hedgehog called Blackberry. Yeah, and Ellen; Oral History Page 1 of 8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai then now I live in St. Paul with my husband and still have a lot of animals. We have three chickens and two cats. I Isaac Tadé 01:12 Awesome. Thank you. How did you end up at Augsburg University? E Ellen 01:17 So I always knew about Augsburg. One of my neighbors growing up was actually in the nursing department, and she kind of raved about Augsburg. But I knew that I really wanted to leave Minnesota for college. So I kind of ignored the fact that Augsburg was right there next door. And then when I moved back here, now about five years ago, I found Augsburg again on the list of nurse practitioner programs, and just kind of on a whim, went to a information session and was totally charmed by Joyce. She really sold me. So it was the only program that I applied to. And here I am two years later. I Isaac Tadé 01:54 Joyce is a wonderful lady. How did you become involved with health commons? E Ellen 02:01 I'm so encouraged to volunteer in my, I think it was, 740 or 541 class. I can't remember if it was a requirement or not. But I came the fall of 2019. And then was kind of hooked and just kept coming back and kept finding ways to work it into my practicum for classes or now coming as part of the 701. I Isaac Tadé 02:28 Okay, thank you. What can you tell me about your experience at health commons? E Ellen 02:34 I'm so I'm so grateful that I got to experience both the pre-COVID commons and the COVID commons as both a student volunteer and now was an intern. So I feel like I've been able to see the commons from a lot of different angles. Every time I go to the commons, something different happens, I get to use my ICU skills and help people navigate getting to the hospital in a hypertensive crisis, or sometimes I wash feet. But I really think the most of my time at the commons is spent, just listening to people. And Ellen; Oral History Page 2 of 8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai every time I go, I just kind of love it more. I Isaac Tadé 03:10 Most definitely. How was health commons presented to fit in with your curriculum? And how well do you think your experience at health commons relates to what you were learning in class? E Ellen 03:21 I think it blended into my education pretty seamlessly. But I've definitely tailored some of my academic experiences towards my interests in the commons definitley aligns with my interests. I don't really kind of remember how it was brought up in class, I know that we were given the option of watching the video before coming and I definitely didn't watch the video the first time. But I remember it being sort of, like I remember coming to the commons and being sort of shocked because I thought that it was definitely gonna be more of like a skilled nursing thing. So I think I was, I didn't really know, or I don't really remember what how it was presented. And that maybe it was just me, like just zoning out in class. But I think it has worked really well with my education. And also for me, I think at least that it affirms that I would really like to work with marginalized populations as a nurse practitioner. I had this kind of idea when I came to Augsburg that's what I wanted to do. But really, it was just an idea. And now I have like all this practical experience to draw upon. That's been really valuable. I Isaac Tadé 04:32 Yeah, that's really insightful. Thank you. How did you experience that health commons fit or challenge your expectations? E Ellen 04:41 So like I said, it was really different. I didn't, I did not watch the video. And I came in and expected to be doing things like more like health, sort of like counseling I guess. And more like blood pressure taking and less, definitely less relationship building. And I think it took coming back a few a few times for me to really see the mission and then coming to the commons as a regular for me to really kind of understand the work. But it was only a while before I realized, what kind of was the mission of the commons? Ellen; Oral History Page 3 of 8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I Isaac Tadé 05:20 Did you feel as though people felt welcomed into the space? Do you have any suggestions on how we could do better. E Ellen 05:29 Well I really hope people feel welcome. I certainly have felt very welcomed into this space myself. I think that it was so busy when I first started there that I don't remember ever, like sitting down or stopping moving until we debriefed at the end. So I don't think there was ever a time to feel unwelcomed or out of place. And even if I didn't know, where things were, or it was a bit clumsy, I remember being really helped by the regular guests. And they would kind of show me and put me in the right direction. Um, I really like the way the room is set up, I think it flows really well, and it creates this super welcoming space. I sometimes worry that like more sensitive topics are harder to discuss, which might be making people feel like a little bit more unwelcomed, I guess. I was just thinking of this yesterday. A woman came in and was wanting stool softeners. And it's like, you know, it's either one or two people kind of in there right now. And Sean, John was there. You could tell she was kind of embarrassed. But Sean John said, like very clearly like, "Oh, I don't listen to what you're saying," and he knew that it was a private conversation and made it clear he wasn't listening. So I think it still is a welcoming place. But I think sometimes with it being so small and intimate now sometimes maybe that might make it feel a little unwelcoming? I don't know. But I think overall, it is a very welcoming place and that I don't really think there's any suggestions about how we can make it more welcoming, I guess. I Isaac Tadé 06:55 Yeah, that's good to hear, thank you. What strengths did you learn of or hear from people that you've met? E Ellen 07:04 Um, I think I hear strength in pretty much every story that I hear there, and the resiliency of the guests always kind of floored me. Um, I guess I can't think of like one specific example. Right now. But I guess just the like, determination that people have they keep getting up coming back trying again, kind of all those cliches, but they're really true. I've seen over and over again. I Isaac Tadé 07:32 Ellen; Oral History Page 4 of 8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Yeah, most definitely. How has this experience changed any biases you may have had about homeless people, or marginally housed individuals, excuse me. E Ellen 07:45 This was really my first experience working with or spending extended periods of time with people experiencing homelessness. And I think many of my biases were challenged, I mean, just thinking on the top my head about people like Paul and Sean John, who are clearly so smart, and, you know, so put together and have had just like this series of bad luck that led them to where they are and to be homeless. That, you know, that's certainly challenged some of my beliefs about our previous biases about homelessness. And I think that COVID has really demonstrated to how vulnerable all of us are, that none of our jobs are truly recession proof. And it has eluminated, how easy it is for all of us to become homeless or marginally housed. Much like Paul or Shean John or any number of the people who come regularly. Um, I think also this experience has sort of opened my eyes to more injustice. And I really never thought that the homeless was easy or fair. And maybe the people experiencing homelessness were marginalized. But I think I never fully, and I still don't fully realize how marginalized. Just yesterday, I was thinking about, as I was bringing food to the encampments, just how, like, ridiculous it is that people are still not allowed to sleep or live in public spaces, like parks. And then we still don't have enough places in shelters to house everybody. So I guess those would be some of my, I guess, I don't know if those are biases or just things that have become clear about the homeless experience. I Isaac Tadé 09:27 Thank you for that. How would you suggest suggest we can better accompany people on their journey of health, for example, adding more hours or adding outreach services? E Ellen 09:39 Yeah, I go back and forth about this. I have loved being able to connect people like Sean John and chatting to hear all his stories. And I think that's so in line with the goal of the commons but I also really wish we could reach more people. And I think that's kind of the perpetual problem in health care. We really want to see and help as many people as we can, but we also want to build relationships and friendships and like we just can't do it all. But part of me thinks that doing more might dilute what we currently have. And that if we add or change anything, or if we do add or change anything, I think it would be really cool to kind of do a poll of all our guests and maybe even going out to like the near north, or if there are other encampments that we could think of and asking people there. Ellen; Oral History Page 5 of 8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Because I really, I don't know, what would be more beneficial. I really love what we have going on now. But certainly, if there were things that people thought that we could do different, or that we could add, I would be so interested in making accommodations and helping in other ways, too. I Isaac Tadé 10:36 It sounds like a question of quantity versus quality. E Ellen 10:40 Totally. I Isaac Tadé 10:41 Okay. What, if anything, will you take forward with you from this experience? E Ellen 10:49 Oh, um, a lot of things. Um, so I think the big one is that this definitely has affirmed that, I would love to work with marginalized populations going forward. Um, I think I feel like...so I got into nursing thinking I was going to be a labor delivery nurse and ended up kind of in the complete opposite, as a pediatric ICU nurse. And I came into this program thinking that I wanted to work with marginalized people, but was really open to the idea that, like, my education might change that. And this experience totally has, just solidified and affirmed that I would like to work with marginalized populations in some capacity. So that's kind of invaluable. Yeah. I Isaac Tadé 11:37 Okay, thank you. What do you think health commons can do better? Is something missing? E Ellen 11:45 I don't think so. I think I said when I had to interview for the commons that I thought that it could maybe be a little bit more organized. Just because sometimes I think it is hard for us to find things when Katie's not there. But I think Katie definitely took that to heart and that it is, like a lot more organized now and a lot easier for me to find things. So I think it's easier for us to be more independent there as the interns. But yeah, I mean, I think it's Ellen; Oral History Page 6 of 8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai great. I guess maybe if I was going to just talk about wishes and hopes, like it's been so nice to have that space be our own. And it would be nice to have that going forward, to not have to pack it all up every week for Sunday school, but I don't know if that would be possible in a post COVID world. I Isaac Tadé 12:38 Thank you. What could have been better in regards to your volunteer experience? E Ellen 12:48 Um, I think I'm so biased that I just love it so much! I don't know what I could say, "what would be better?" Um, I do sometimes think that... like I was saying before that sometimes it is just sort of slightly frustrating not being able to find things. But that's definitely gotten a lot better and made you feel like, I know where stuff is now and things are just more organized. It's easier, but that would be the only thing. I Isaac Tadé 13:16 Okay, is there a specific story you could share that struck you from your experience at helth commons? E Ellen 13:24 Yeah, think it was either the first or second time entering this winter, like over the spring semester. This woman came in, it was one of those extremely cold days. And she was in like a midriff spandex top and spandex bottoms, a rain jacket, and then socks and sandals. And she'd been sleeping outside. Clearly like her hands and her feet were almost frostbitten. And she just started telling us all about her story, and was super open. And it came out that her car had been impounded. She'd been living in her car and she had all the money together to get the car out, but she just didn't have car insurance and that was going to be another like two or $300 which she just didn't have. And then clearly she needed a lot of clothes and to be warmed back up. And it was just this like perfect like stars aligning experience where like everything came together and everyone worked like so well together. Pastor Melissa came in and was able to hook her up with insurance right away. People from the clothing closet were able to find her like just the warmest best clothes. We'd just randomly gotten a shipment of a ton of really nice polar fleece mittens too. And this woman, she came in just so downtrodden and ended up leaving just so encouraged and like kind of on this high. It was so wonderful to be able to take care of her in such a way and help her get her car back. So that was kind of a really...stars aligning Ellen; Oral History Page 7 of 8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai experience. I Isaac Tadé 15:09 Wow, that's a really beautiful story, thank you. And then our last question is, is there anything you would like to add that we didn't already ask about? E Ellen 15:19 I don't think so. I Isaac Tadé 15:22 Okay. Well, thank you. This has been a great experience for me. E Ellen 15:27 Thanks, Isaac. I Isaac Tadé 15:28 All right you're welcome. Ellen; Oral History Page 8 of 8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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