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Sabrin Gadow
Fri, 04/26 03:35PM
32:37
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
laughing, muslim, queer, people, identities, feel, campus, somali, augsburg, community, nice, islam,
events, culturally, indistinguishable, mom, guess, friends, msa, person
SPEAKERS
Sabrin Gadow, Brendan Descamps
Brendan Descamps ...
Show more Sabrin Gadow Fri, 04/26 03:35PM 32:37 SUMMARY KEYWORDS laughing, muslim, queer, people, identities, feel, campus, somali, augsburg, community, nice, islam, events, culturally, indistinguishable, mom, guess, friends, msa, person SPEAKERS Sabrin Gadow, Brendan Descamps Brendan Descamps 00:01 Okay, hello. S Sabrin Gadow 00:02 Hello, hello. Brendan Descamps 00:02 So first I'd like to say thank you for being here S Sabrin Gadow 00:04 Of course. Brendan Descamps 00:06 So if you would like to introduce yourself and get started that way. Sabrin Gadow 00:10 Sabrin Gadow Page 1 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai S Sabrin Gadow 00:10 Yeah! Okay - My name is Sabrin Gadow. My major is - I'm double majoring in history and Poly-Sci with pre-law concentration. My pronouns are they/them My gender is non existent. My ethnicity is Somali and "my other important identities to you:" Um - Black and tall. Brendan Descamps 00:28 Tall, alright. that's true you are tall. S Sabrin Gadow 00:30 I have to rep the game so - [laughing] Brendan Descamps 00:32 Okay - [Laughing] Okay, so the first question I'd like to dive into if you want to start here would be: "what connections Do you have - personally, to Islam?" S Sabrin Gadow 00:45 Yeah so I was raised Muslim. My entire family is Muslim. Um - even now most of my family's still Muslim. Um - yeah, Islam is beautiful, beautiful religion. I love the - Being culturally-raised culture Muslim was a lot different than being like - religiously-raised Muslim. Since I like being like - because my family was like actively practicing it, but it was more of a cultural thing for us. It was like being in that kind of environment was really nice - and having that kind of connection to people based on like, a sharing of identities was really nice. Yeah, ten-out-of-ten. Brendan Descamps 01:16 Okay - Um - I guess. I want to ask a follow up question. How have your various identities affected your relationship with Islam? And then I guess to add on to what you said about culturally versus religiously? Um - like, I guess how does that tie into that? S Sabrin Gadow 01:34 Um, yeah, so I - [laughing] I think it's funny because like - how do my various identities Sabrin Gadow Page 2 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai affect my relationship with Islam. [laughing] I'm not Muslim anymore. So - thats one. [laughing] Yeah, I guess just being like a kid recognize that like - uh - I was queer and realizing the - blatant homophobia. In the queer co - uh - not queer - in the uh - Muslim community. Especially my family, my mom the way she would just speak was just really vulgar. It made me feel like, like I was wrong or shameful. Or I wasn't like, actually being who I was. So that was really hard for me to like - am I - it's like to actually want to go down this road and actually be who I am? Like - live my truth but like - also inject my family, my - like my own identity, so you know - my ideas, my - ideologies. So that was a big thing. Um - But I guess with being non-binary, that came out later on. So I was like, whatever, felt like - we been knew - um - yeah I guess it was just hard because it's like, when I was a kid trying to find out who was, it was hard to distinguish how I was raised and who I wanted to be. But I feel like culturally vs. religious - religious Muslims are like, religiously, like when you're actually religious and you actually participate. And culturally is more about like, a culture around it. It's like that you can still be cultural - raisedculturally Muslim, and still be a religious Muslim, like, cultural describes, like the culture around it, instead of like, the actual belief and faith. So like, people who are raised like in the Middle East, they're, like, a lot of them are more culturally Muslim because they're raised, around that kind of thing, they understand a lot of concepts, or they'll be in certain ways because they're raised around that, or just - that's the way I view it - it might not be one-hundred percent accurate. So I apologize, that's just how I view it. I just say culturally Muslim, because I wasn't raised as, like a really strict Muslim. I was raised more with ideas and beliefs and like the culture around it, so like, I that's how I view myself. But later on, My mom was like, "Let's be Muslim!", and I was like, "let's not..." [laughing] Brendan Descamps 03:12 Okay, and you're - so you chose not to be religiously Muslim? S Sabrin Gadow 03:18 Um - Brendan Descamps 03:20 Or is that just kind of like something that came about? S Sabrin Gadow 03:22 Technically, I mean it just came about because, uh, my mom didn't get like really religious Sabrin Gadow Page 3 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai until like - like when we were kids she like made us go like Sunday/Saturday School, which is like, how like you learn about Islam and stuff like that, like a couple times, but then moving and like, they're really expensive. So it wasn't like a every kinda day kinda thing, and then around like eighth grade, she wanted us to be super religious, but I was just like, 'bro it's too late now." [laughing] I was like, "I'm 13 years old. You messed up." So after that, it was just kind of like, Yeah, and I mean, like, I still wore the headscarf. I was still like, I dressed modestly. I still was like presenting very Muslim, but I wasn't like - wrong with it. But I think like after I left high school then I was actually like - I'm not this anymore. So when I left my mom's house it was more about being like, "ugh, finally." Woah it's hot in here. Brendan Descamps 04:07 After you left high school, so after your senior year? S Sabrin Gadow 04:09 When I started Summer Bridge Brendan Descamps 04:10 Like, two years ago now? S Sabrin Gadow 04:13 Mhm. Brendan Descamps 04:15 Um - I guess, question. Um - if we can go back a little bit. If you're comfortable answering um - a follow up question. You said that things that your mother or, uh, family would say made you uncomfortable growing up queer. Did your family like, know about your queer identities? S Sabrin Gadow 04:35 Um - So - Tea. Uh, not really. So I was raised - So, my dad died when I was a kid. So it was an all-woman household so like we - my mom didn't really care about - if I was like more, Sabrin Gadow Page 4 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai I'm saying this with air quotes "masculine," because like, there was really no father-figure in the house so like, without my dad so it was like, we all took different on roles. So like, from the household to my dad's like, if I did more things that were considered air quotes "masculine" um - that was okay. It's like, that was okay. With being queer - I - we never really talked about it. Like we never talked about like, liking people. Um, when were kids it was all like, "save yourself until marriage." We were just like, "Bet." So it was never, like kinda that thing. Um - I think even if she had like an idea of it, she'd like, repress the fuck out of it. Because that in itself is like -no. Yeah, but no. Two secret realities. Brendan Descamps 05:20 Interesting. Okay. Um - And I'm, I am curious now, because you brought up this binary of like, culturally and religiously. I'm wondering if, um like that, like belief, or like, yeah, like that belief um - would have came out of like, your mother's like, or your family's like cultural sense, or like, their religious background? If that makes sense. S Sabrin Gadow 05:46 Hmm, tea. Um - So, I guess, like - um - In itself, technically, religously - because it does say that like, homosexuality is wrong, which is uh - one thing, but culturally, my entire mom's side - are just blatant homophobes. Like, she's always around, that kind of - kind of like ideas. Stuff like, that's like culturally. That could be the thing - but it's more about family. Brendan Descamps 06:05 Yeah. S Sabrin Gadow 06:15 Back in Somalia there were - there was like, instances of homophobia, I think. I'm not really positive on that. But I'm not sure. I guess. I think honestly, it has to like culture and like that sort of thing. That's their beliefs and that they were just on that shit. Sorry if I'm not like - too knowledgeable. Brendan Descamps 06:33 No, no, that's totally fine. Thank you. Okay. So I guess I'd like to move on and ask you just your experience then, like, more generally, this is um - This question I feel like already is going to like reiterate some of the things you've already spoken to. But I guess just Sabrin Gadow Page 5 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai generally, what was your experience as a queer person when you also identified as Muslim? S Sabrin Gadow 06:58 Whew. I feel like to explain that I'd actually share my coming out story, which is so horrible. So - Brendan Descamps 07:06 Just - preface: you don't necessarily have to share that - S Sabrin Gadow 07:08 Oh, it makes sense. No, no, I - it's like - um - so - [sighs] Um, so like when I - I moved to Hopkins when I was in - before I started my Junior year, and I was like, "new school - I want to be who I am as a person," this like - me like - I was like - Like a year into like coming-out actually being out with my friends. My sisters knew, but my mom obviously didn't. but like - people close to me knew and I was like - I'm more comfortable with it. I was like, "you know what, bet." I want to be who I am. This; That; and the Third. No one was going to tell me shit. Right? I was great. [laughing] It was cool for a bit. I hung out with the - obviously, I went to a new school and hung out with all the Somalis and Muslims just like - another asset because obviously it's a familiar space. I was drawn towards like people I know. So Somalis like the first choice. Um - it was cool for a bit. They ended up being very, very interesting people. I ended up getting outed because one of them was like, because we were - trying to become a presence, we tried to be - we tried to start the MSA up again the plan for the position at Hopkins was to be co-presidents so we could start like a prayer um - room and have like - all Muslim kids could get passes so we could actually pray during school without having to like - miss our prayers because we're in classes or because of the times class changes. We were like, yo let us like leave class - leave lunch and go to areas we can actually go pray. So that we're not having students in class neglect our religion, which is a great concept. Like - she was on her parents about it. She was like, "yeah, it's so dope and like, you know Sabrin? Like - they're like - they're gay. And I was just like, "why would you say that?" No! Sorry, her sister outed me because her sister was mad that I was hanging out with her sister because she was homophobic. And then her parents like, "you can't hang out with this - that person and the third and it was like weird. It was a weird situation for a bit. Um - It was shitty because I was so scared that my mom was going to find out. So it was like a weird experience. So with like the experience of being queer and a person that's Muslim? I actually learned how to keep my mouth shut. Sabrin Gadow Page 6 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai "Periodt." But I don't know - I guess just, instead of being super trusting I guess I learned that just like, at the end of the day people seem cool - until they're not. So that's my experience being queer and Muslim. Brendan Descamps 09:02 Thank you. Okay. When did you move to Hopkins? S Sabrin Gadow 09:07 Um - Junior year of high school. It was cool though. Very white. [both laughing] I mean I'm here! Brendan Descamps 09:21 Okay, so you said earlier that you um - you left the faith. And that was a personal choice to leave? S Sabrin Gadow 09:30 Yeah, I never really felt like I never - I didn't grow up super religious. So I never really felt that like - Connection in the first place. So like it wasn't like super hard for me to leave. I felt more constricted because I never liked believed - like I didn't have that strong belief so I felt like I was doing it more out of comfort and habit rather than like actually being a believer. So I felt - I was not really being - an authentic I was like, not really, like I was [indistinguishable] I was - but also like, I didn't think like what people who are actually Muslims. Since like I'm not actually believing it. Why am I wearing a headscarf? Why am I like - dressing modestly. I'm not labeling me. Yeah, you know, so like, I made the choice to like - do "once upon a time" - took my headscarf off and starting taking care of my hair. Obviously you can see - we're back with it. [laughing] Yeah, it was more - It was definitely a personal choice. It wasn't because of anything, I guess. It was more about, like, me being like, I wanna live my truth and not feel like I have to stay if it makes me uncomfortable comfortable Brendan Descamps 10:20 Okay - Yeah. That's powerful. With that, with all that being said, Do you - have you since then, the past two years, found any like belonging in faith - like other faith traditions or spiritual practices, since you had that experience with Islam? Sabrin Gadow Page 7 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai S Sabrin Gadow 10:38 Religion itself just makes me scared now. I've been burned before so we're done with it? [laughing] No, not really. I've never really been this religious. I kind of want to like - I feel when I older and more - like 100% like, my identity, who I am as person, maybe I can go back and reflect. But now - right now I'm just like this whole transitional page - transitional page, I'm in my life, where it's like college, like, where I'm going like, graduating like two years. So I have other things on my plate right now. From like, like, I don't have the time to think what I want to eat. Let alone religion. So, yeah. Brendan Descamps 11:11 Okay. And you mentioned when you're older, maybe you'll look back and reflect and like, take some time to, um - think about religion or spiritual practices. So have you heard or what do you think of the queer - like queer folks right now who are making space for themselves in Islam, in the movements like associated with those folks? S Sabrin Gadow 11:33 I hundred perc - I 100% stan. That is amazing. I love it so much. I think it's, it's amazing. I think it's really, um - I think it's really powerful. And it's really great just because it's dangerous to them because a lot of people in the community just specifically Somali people have the tendencies to be homophobic. And not only homophobic but there like, they like act out in violent ways so like literally attacked and harmed. So it's, I don't know about some but like - my experiences, like it's, so I'm like, I'm nervous for that. But gather doing something like that, that's really important and creating spaces because people have this whole like idea where it's like, you're either queer or you're Muslim, and it's like, no, I can be both. Just because I choose not to be doesn't have to be and it's great. Like, I am Muslim, I believe in my faith but I also who I am as a person, I can't change that God made me this way and it's like period. God made you who you are - periodt. You know? and it's like create space for that where you feel comfortable with your identity, and who you are as a person and your religion, [indistinguishable]. Brendan Descamps 12:26 Thank you, that's no - I like that. So in that case, would you ever consider restoring or reinvigorating your faith in Islam through an inclusive Islam movement? Maybe when you're older looking back since that's when you stated you would be interested in doing Sabrin Gadow Page 8 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai like - that? S Sabrin Gadow 12:41 I mean honestly, I'd be down. I think it'd be really, really cool. Yeah, it would be great. Especially just to meet like, really cool - people. People are Muslim cool and they're just really down like that be great. 10/10. Brendan Descamps 12:55 Som starting to shift the conversation towards community at Augsburg and colleges abroad. Do you feel a sense of community when you with your Muslim peers? You still have that like Muslim connection? S Sabrin Gadow 13:13 I'm trying to think - sorry. I was like, I'm trying to think, but I actually have Muslim friends, I do. It's actually funny - Last semester, I didn't. [laughing] So, like I don't have Muslim friends, but it's like, oh yeah! I do. It's - I don't know, it's like, I think I question people, because we each have shared identities like, but I think that isn't the reason I was like drawn to them. Like it wasn't the reason why we were friends. I think that like it's a lucky coincidence like, you're cool, and you're Somali and you're Muslim so like, bet, you know? I do feel a sense of community with them, because at the end of the day like they're really cool people. If they share a lot of identities with me whether it's like, them being Somali, you know, or some - or queer. So it's like, it's really nice to like, know that. There are people who are out there - they're like me or who are like - are like me, um off this campus. Yeah. Brendan Descamps 13:57 Okay. I guess in that case to like, do you experience any um - do you experience any, like prejudice on campus from Muslim peers? S Sabrin Gadow 14:08 Oooh, um - Sabrin Gadow Page 9 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Brendan Descamps 14:09 or discrimination against? S Sabrin Gadow 14:10 Not really. I don't really know a lot of Muslims, not going to lie. But most of them are really cool. I've actually never really experienced that kind of thing. I feel like Augsburg's campus - Is like - is different. Because like - it's Augsburg so you really can't be acting up [laughing] But no honestly, they're really cool and if I ever did have a problem - They would have to say to my face, so. Brendan Descamps 14:28 Okay. I think we alre- we definitely already covered this, about "is being Muslim connected in anyway to your ethnic identity?" Um - we kind of already covered how it is deeply tied to Somali culture - S Sabrin Gadow 14:41 Ooh. One of the same. [laughing] Brendan Descamps 14:46 Let's see - Oh okay, so since we already kind of explored that, how have you experienced Somali culture? In your case? Have you experienced Somali culture - without Islam being part of that? S Sabrin Gadow 15:02 So my culture is all about jokes. So its like [laughing] In my opinion, um - it's- I don't know it's like we just make a lot of jokes about like the shared identities, I'll ask people who I knew as a kid, we'd be like, what was your worst ass-beating? I'd be like, one time my mom came at me with like "this," or "this," or "that." And they'd be like, "Oh, that's it?" It's just like, we're just finding things. Um - we all suffered so violently [laughing] at the hands of everybody. Just funny moments or like - Most people have the - the connection with like being like translators for your parents, because like your parents - like, uh, my mom came over here to bring us here. So it's like, we're always like, speak for her helping her out. People have that shared kind of experience. Just, it's not all about like, sometimes it's Sabrin Gadow Page 10 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai more like we go through as an immigrant, or what you go through as a person color, being black, rather than like - and Somali. Especially being Somali in Minnesota, where it's uh or Minneapolis. Or Minnesota specifically, where it's like, we're so big, but they like everybody really hates us. So it's like, so we're always like, people just sat there and trust it, and it's like, Yeah - and why do they do this to us? and it's like - I don't know, but I guess it's more about like, the shared traits and common things that happened. Brendan Descamps 16:06 Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, there's a lot more to it than just the religion aspect. Sure. Okay. Alright. So now, I'd like to definitely shift into, like campus experiences explicitly. Um - Do you have any connections to the Muslim Student Association or MSA? S Sabrin Gadow 16:28 Not really. I'm not gonna lie, first year, I was really like, "Oh my God. College, yeah!" So I made some empty promises where I was like, "Yeah of course, I'll attend a meeting." Never went. [laughing] Never went. It's just so horrible. Like, I should go. But, I'm not going to because like I - I mean I should go as a supporter and like be there to like, support my Somalis. But, um - it's probably not going to happen. But no, not really. They seem- they seem really cool, though. They seem really dope. Um - but a lot of others said they were always - are really nice and cool. So, and they always have like food there. So if I ever get hungry might have to stop by and say hello. [laughing] Brendan Descamps 17:03 In that case, you're not a member - necessarily. S Sabrin Gadow 17:05 I'm on their emailing list though. [laughing] I'm doing something right. Brendan Descamps 17:11 I guess, would you - since you never attended or you're not a member - would you feel welcomed in a space like that? Do you think? Sabrin Gadow 17:19 Sabrin Gadow Page 11 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai S Sabrin Gadow 17:19 I think I'd feel welcomed because I know all the Muslims there. I think I would still feel general anxiety. I have anxiety, but just like, really anxious around Muslims, just because I'm openly queer. So it's like it's hard and being Somali, people always assume I'm Muslim. So it's like that kind of dichotomy, where it's like, I'm not this, but I'm this. And I'm hated because I'm this, but not this. So yeah. Um - Welcome? Yes, nervous, but definitely. Brendan Descamps 17:43 Okay. Thank you. With that being said, since you don't attend, uh, MSA meetings, and you don't necessarily find like your community there. You feel welcome there. Right. You said you had friends. But that's not necessarily like your, like space you - right? S Sabrin Gadow 18:02 It's not my area. Brendan Descamps 18:02 Yeah. So what other identity based organizations have you been a part of? Or are you a part of here during your time, at Augsburg? S Sabrin Gadow 18:11 PASU, mainly. Just because PASU be - 10/10! Ugh. [laughing] Everyday! Shout out to PASU! They're really great. They put on a lot of great events. I love going there and they're always really nice and funny. All the people I know there are hilarious. Um - other than that - I've recently started going to uh, Queer Indig - Queer Indigenous and People of Color, (QIPOC). Which is actually really fun. Because one of my friends being the President, so I'm like, let me go support. But I'm like, I can't show up next year, let me go to like their last cool events. And it was actully really fun. They're really cool people. And it's like, it's nice. It's like this community, and it's like, it's just great for like, queer people of color and indigenous people of color, or - oh my god. [emphazing] "queer indigenous and people of color, which is really nice, because that's often like you live confined. Because most spaces are like - more queer spaces are just white, which is? [whispering] a-wholenother thing. But, yeah, PASU and QIPOC. Sabrin Gadow Page 12 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Brendan Descamps 18:58 Okay, do feel like you'd be welcomed at QPA or? S Sabrin Gadow 19:03 A little - I mean, Yeah of course - QPA is Yeah, no, I actually never went to their events. They seem - they seem nice. Yeah, I should go. Brendan Descamps 19:16 Okay. Um - So you were definitely invigorated when talking about PASU. Can you talk a little bit about how that community or how that like is a community for you? Or how this community makes you feel here on campus? S Sabrin Gadow 19:34 Um - going to a predominately white school - It's just it's nice to know, that there's other people on campus that share similar identities with me. So I'm always just like, "Ah, yes, another Black person!" Like I'll see you around the quad. I like to make eye contact, like I see you - I know it's hard. Or just like people who are in the simi - the struggle. Like, um also, PASU members are just fun, like they - like the one last month that I went to other than - event, the - the, elections, was like this trivia night they had and it was like fun because we were all like super comp - I was super competitive [laughing] I'm not trying to make assumptions, I was super competitive. It was fun, we got to bond by - we all make fun of eachother and it was nice and we joked around. And also like a lot of people I know go to - go to PASU events it's always like catching up with friends you dont get to see that often or just like kiking it up with the one's you do see often. They always have food. The board's great. Uh - like I don't know, PASU just be moving - I think I just feel comfortable in that space and that's not something I really feel all the time around campus. So it's nice to like come to a certain place or come to an event like - be like, "wow, I don't feel weird," or I don't feel anxious, I just feel comfortable. Brendan Descamps 20:37 Awesome. And that necessarily isn't a feeling that you get at a PWI, primar - primarily - or predominantly white institution, right? Okay - Sabrin Gadow 20:51 Sabrin Gadow Page 13 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai S Sabrin Gadow 20:51 It's like the saying where it's like, "you have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable," or - not. [laughing] Brendan Descamps 20:57 Is that a saying? [laughing] S Sabrin Gadow 20:58 Yeah, it's horrible. [laughing] People would say that like - you have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. And it's like well "comfortable with being uncomfortable," am I just comfortable then? But that's off topic Brendan Descamps 21:07 Not - I feel like that might be a little on topic considering like all the um - events that have been on campus recently With folks "challenging" students of color based on like, quoteunquote "academic freedom," but S Sabrin Gadow 21:22 Oh my god - Brendan Descamps 21:22 That's um - that would be the side note but, um - So I guess how have - identity-based organizations had an effect on your college experience? S Sabrin Gadow 21:34 Um - they made me feel just, like a sense of community that like, that wasn't just like that compounds like with like PWIs, since community feels fostered like, we have to hang out with each other because there's so like, little of us but like, PASU it just feels organically um - or like Identity-based ones they just feel organically - I feel like I can just give people that I know or don't know, it just is feels - it feels nice. It has made my overall college experience, much better. I feel like if I wasn't - because of those kind of, uh - groups who were just like organizations that if I didn't go to I would've felt like, it was just me and my Sabrin Gadow Page 14 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai couple friends who were living off campus. I would have not been able to like socialize with people as much or as often. Or like just randomly want something to do, like hey I saw your event, you seem really dope. You know? So yeah, it's definitely made me more social, maybe more like I feel like I actually belong on this campus. Yeah, that's awesome. I love that. When did you get involved with PASU and QIPOC? Uh - QIPOC has been like twice. [laughing] [indistinguishable] I came, and was like, "hello." I left. I mean, I actually haven't gone to many PASU events this year because I've just been working like all Thursdays and their events are Thursdays but I know a couple of the board members so I was hitting them with that - being like, "alright, of course I'll come." [laughing] Um - But I honestly, I haven't been to PASU for a while now. Like, I've been active member for a while, since like freshman year just because we're first year - just because I was a first year, "Yes, PASU, of course!" And yeah, so they have my heart forever. Brendan Descamps 23:00 No, that's awesome. A lot of first years are timid, necessarily like when it comes to like student organizations. So it's good to hear that you came out right away and started attending their events and meetings. S Sabrin Gadow 23:11 Oh, that's because Summer Bridge forced us. I was on campus all summer and I was bored. Brendan Descamps 23:14 Summer Bridger - S Sabrin Gadow 23:15 God. Brendan Descamps 23:18 Okay. Um, how have these organizations helped you grow as a person or a student here on campus? If at all - Sabrin Gadow 23:33 Sabrin Gadow Page 15 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai S Sabrin Gadow 23:33 I mean, I just - I don't think I'm like, grow - like I don't think there was anything changing about me. I think It was more just about feeling comfortable in spaces. Um - Yeah, I guess it's nice though now, because it's like recognizing more faces and more like other like [indistinguishable] areas. That's nice. Now, I'm just like, I feel more comfortable in other spaces because I actually take mine now. or - Yeah. Brendan Descamps 23:58 Okay. So, about student organizations and like academia, like academics here on campus - do you feel like being involved or like this fostered community, not fostered community, this organically produced community with PASU or other orgs have like helped you in your education academically or like, hindered it, depending on your involvement with it? S Sabrin Gadow 24:27 This year, obviously it's helped and I haven't gone the events. Last year, there was a whole time where I had been like, "I'm just going to spend a couple hours and do my homework." Homework never got done. [laughing] So I guess it's - it was definitely hard first year just to find that like balance of like, do my homework and like, still attending events - having fun, like being social. So I guess it's helped me, learning how to be better at time management - it's hindered me because I suck at time management. [laughing] Brendan Descamps 24:53 That's fair. I think we could all understand that. And uh - this - this week, the week before finals week. Do you think - how do you think you would have fared at an institution that wouldn't have identity organizations like PASU? In that case, like how do you think your education would have fared? S Sabrin Gadow 25:16 I think honestly it would have been worse because those kind of um - organizations that like are meant to create safe like, a space specifically for Black people and I think I would just feel alone on campus especially at a predominantly white school I would not be able to socialize with everybody all the time. Augsburg is super diverse, but like if I went to school at like, St. Thomas, I would've been - Sad all the time. Because it would have been like, I don't see anybody that looks like me, or like anybody who [indistinguisable], and it makes it like, it's all fun games, but like, nobody is going to get you - get you. All I'm going Sabrin Gadow Page 16 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai to say is skin-folk is not kinfolk. I'll say it again, skin-folks is not kinfolk. So I guess it's very important because it creates a community that someone could like focus on and find and help, especially at a PWI. Brendan Descamps 26:06 I wanted to go back. So PASU to you, is definitely like the main community that you feel like um - S Sabrin Gadow 26:14 Roll heavy Brendan Descamps 26:15 Yeah, definitely. Definitely your main source of community. But in regards, to like a large identity group on campus, then right? S Sabrin Gadow 26:24 Mhm - Brendan Descamps 26:24 Okay. I guess how do your um - queer identities intersect with how you interact with like, PASU? And like folks at PASU? Like - How does those - how do you how do your African slash, like black identities interact with your queer identities? S Sabrin Gadow 26:45 So in the Black community, specifically the African community, like African - like Africa, I found out there's like some homophobia in the Black community, a lot of homophobia. So that's always been hard. I feel like with Augsburg, being in college and being a little more open-minded, I'm not going to lie it doesn't really come up. I mean, I'll make a joke here in there, but a lot of people just assume I am because I hate men, which is 100% valid. I do a lot of anti-men jokes. And you know what? I mean all of them. I laughed so what? [laughing] So yeah, I guess. I mean, when I am, like, more openminded, being like, Oh, yeah, I definitely am queer. Then I think it's like - people are just like, "oh cool," like it's Sabrin Gadow Page 17 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai never been a problem for me. Especially like, at PASU events. I mean, could PASU do more events with like, could PASU do more events like thatare caterered to queer people, and or queer Black people? Of course, we all could, but it's never been an issue for me. Brendan Descamps 27:35 Awesome. Thank you. So I guess we can move on to some general questions. Would you recommend organizations like these incoming first year students? S Sabrin Gadow 27:46 Yes, I think if you're not coming in, like, like, say, like you do SOAR, it was alone, you didn't [indistinguishable] - good group of friends that you can come into the school year with, that's just what Soar is, you find like two people you like, you're roommates with them and your friends. If that's how it happened is over, which is great, because it helps you find people, meet people. Even if you didn't find people during SOAR, you met people during SOAR. It's just really great. I think it helps you find people you actually like, and they share identities with, not saying that shared identities is the end all be all, but I think it is important just to like know that like no matter what you'll still have a place that celebrates your identity and who you are as a person. Brendan Descamps 28:22 Yeah, that's wonderful. I love that. Um - So, I guess we kind of already touched on this but, um - Now, I'm just gonna ask it because it's here. [laughing] We talked about a little bit already. Is there a place on campus that you feel accepted in all of your identity simultaneously, where you feel like you can be 100% you and not be questioned about it? S Sabrin Gadow 28:46 When I'm hanging out my friends. My friends are cool shit. I love all of them. They're great. Like, I don't know, it's just like, it's nice, because they know who I am. They know what I'm about. So it's like, I never have to - actually have to pick and choose between what I want to be today, like do I want to be Black first? Do I want to be a non-binary? Be queer? Instead, I can always just been me. Yeah, so it's nice. Um - Yeah, so I guess now [indistinguishable] we'll see here. Sabrin Gadow Page 18 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Brendan Descamps 29:13 Yeah, definitely. I just had a thought come up and a question. Do you feel as though you have to pick and choose? Like, while you're in classes, or while you're just navigating a PWI, such as Augsburg? S Sabrin Gadow 29:27 Yeah, I actually, it's, it's been so weird, because I recently came out as non-binary. So it's been like, a really weird transition. Like, having to ask my people being like, 'Huh, they are." Or like, just like, now people ask me really weird questions. So it's like to stop that I have to be like, I'm just not going to talk about it at all and allow myself to be misgendered. Or I have to be like, "No, no, I'm not letting myself be misgendered." And I have to be like, "hey, not right." But then I have to sit there and like deal with all of those invasive, really weird questions. It's super weird, when, like, when I'm in class talking about something I like being like black and queer. And then like, I know, it's - I don't feel I have to pick and choose, but I feel I have to either up-play one or down-play the other. So I can't like, so like instead of like, talking about both, I'll be like, today I'll be Black today. I'm talking - I'm -it's not today I'll be Black. It's more like today we'll focus more on black topics. Then like queer topics. Or today we'll focus more on, "that - there" and not because like, like me, because my certain spaces. It's not everyday this, that, and the third. Does that make sense? Brendan Descamps 30:29 Yeah. Thank you for answering that. S Sabrin Gadow 30:32 Well it was a confusing answer. Brendan Descamps 30:33 It's a confusing topic. S Sabrin Gadow 30:35 Yeah, I was, like I don't know how to say it, like, like, for example like um - one of my classes I talk a lot about race. So my professor, I know he can't stand me, but I talk a lot Sabrin Gadow Page 19 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai about race cause otherwise it's like, "yeah, and what about it?" Like, I'll talk like three times - like once or twice, once or twice, like here and there more about like just being critical of heteros. But, it's ever like, but in other classes, it's more about like, like queer topics, or some classes. I'll talk more about - being Muslim, or like being Muslim - actually, I don't really talk about that at all, but like, you know, it really depends on the situation and the place. And what I've decided to be open about that day. Brendan Descamps 31:19 Thank you. At this time, I think we've covered a lot of bases. Um - and I want to open up some time to you if you feel as though you want to, like - revisit any topics. Or if you feel like we skimmed over something that you wanted to talk about more in depth. Or if there's something that's not, you know, that we didn't like talk about at all that you want to talk about? If not, that's totally fine to. We can make some space for that. S Sabrin Gadow 31:50 Um - I don't know, I guess we talked about questions, but like - I don't know. I think we went over everything - everything I think the overarching theme is that at the end of the day you have to be yourself and if someone's mad - It's like if someone is upset or wants to be mad at me, don't want to be my friend? Don't talk to me? Oh, no. [sarcastically] [laughing] Just be you. That's it. Brendan Descamps 32:18 Okay, great lesson. S Sabrin Gadow 32:21 Thank you. My Gemini moon popped out. [laughing] Brendan Descamps 32:26 As I hoped - it did. Okay, well, thank you, Sabrin. Um - It's been great. I appreciate you. S Sabrin Gadow 32:34 Thank you. Sabrin Gadow Page 20 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Sabrin Gadow Page 21 of 21 Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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- Title
- Transcript of Oral History Interview with Mr. X, 2017
- Collection
- Augsburg Central Health Commons Oral History Project
- Search Result
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Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017
Tue, 3/9 2:43PM
26:39
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, homelessness, corners, stay, shelters, bridges, homeless, place, hospital, money,
criminal record, northwestern, women, housing, commons, wet, streets, care, seizures, augsburg
SPEAKERS
Mr X, Kathle...
Show more Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Tue, 3/9 2:43PM 26:39 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, homelessness, corners, stay, shelters, bridges, homeless, place, hospital, money, criminal record, northwestern, women, housing, commons, wet, streets, care, seizures, augsburg SPEAKERS Mr X, Kathleen Clark, Jenna Nelson Kathleen Clark 00:00 So thank you for joining us today. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of Nursing at Augsburg University. I just want to start off by saying Do you consent to being interviewed and having the interview recorded and stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public? M Mr X 00:19 I understand that, yes, okay Kathleen Clark 00:22 All right, and then Jenna Nelson is also with us a graduate nursing student. M Mr X 00:28 Yep. Kathleen Clark 00:28 Thanks, so she'll just be helping with some of the questions, and what not so, Mr. X, that's Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 1 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai how you would like to be identified. Why don't you start off telling us a little bit about yourself? M Mr X 00:42 Yeah, I was born, and raised in Colorado, and I lived in Iowa City for about 15 years, and I got sent up here about over 20 years ago for treatment. Flunked that, worked up here for a while, lost my job, and I've been up here ever since then, and homeless for 30 years, over 30 years, 30 years, 40 years, living under bridges, abandoned buildings, motels, sometimes shelters. Kathleen Clark 01:31 That's a long time to navigate living out on the streets that takes a lot of strength. What brings you that strength, like how do you? Like how do you stay outside? M Mr X 01:45 Yeah, it was hard. It was very hard to sleep outside under bridges because sometimes you picked the wrong bridge, and you get beat up, get robbed, so I just found certain people I liked and could trust, and hung with them, and they were like a family. We took care of each other, and kind of shared everything, and looked after each other. Kathleen Clark 02:17 Wow, that’s important. So now who would you say your family is? Now as far as your family when you were staying under the bridge and now you're not saying outside? Correct? M Mr X 02:31 Yeah, I know most of them passed away, and the ones who are still alive are at the same place I'm at, the wet-house. Kathleen Clark 02:40 Okay Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 2 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai M Mr X 02:43 So we still communicate, but we don't really stay together like we used to. We just don't communicate as much as we used to. Kathleen Clark 02:53 Sure. So when you say you live at a wet-house what is that, what is that like for you to live in a wet-house? M Mr X 03:02 A little bit away it's a place for alcoholics. You could stay there until you die, or find housing. Some people can't get into housing cuz they have criminal records. Felonies, some got more felonies than I ever seen my life. It ain't funny, and they can't get any housing so that's our last option.le do you find that it's like a good place to live? Or would you rather not live there? Kathleen Clark 03:27 So, when you're living there are people, do you find that it's like a good place to live or would you rather not live there? M Mr X 03:37 Well, that's a hard question to ask. In some ways it's good, in some ways it's not too pleasant. It's a place where I can lay my head, sleep, get cleaned up, and take a bath. There are some people who I don’t like there and there is always some kind of problems, fights breaking out, you know, “I don't like you, why should I like you? I don't wanna share nothing with you, and just leave me alone.” Yeah, sometimes it's always a nice break now. Kathleen Clark 04:12 Oh wow M Mr X 04:24 That's my second time I've been there Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 3 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Kathleen Clark 04:28 Did you, what happened were you there, and you found different housing, or you were there, and you got kicked out? M Mr X 04:37 The first time I was there I stayed there for two years say, that was two years, yeah two years and some dude wanted to steal my bottle and I turned around and broke his nose. They came running out and they told me I'm kicked out and he's gonna stay and I was back on the streets for a year and a half. I came back under the bridges, convention center, band houses again, occasionally the shelters, but I didn't care for the shelters because they didn't like me and I didn't like them and I just stayed outside. Kathleen Clark 05:20 I remember when you were staying outside in-between your living at the wet-house you had sometimes where you felt like police were targeting you at times. M Mr X 05:38 Yeah, yep. Kathleen Clark 05:39 Can you tell me more about that? M Mr X 05:42 There are some places where I used to sleep behind Central Lutheran, but other people found out about it and they were coming in there and throwing crack parties, drinking, and smoking, and drinking, and just having the cops come over, and they would come up to me. Like I don't know these people okay. Well you’re here you're not supposed to be on church property so you gotta leave and they're going, “We don’t wanna see ya on church property no more.” Kathleen Clark 06:21 Wow. So how when did you start coming to the health commons? Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 4 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai M Mr X 06:34 I would say about 15 years ago, 15, 10, maybe 10, 15 years ago. Kathleen Clark 06:40 And how did you first find out about it? M Mr X 06:43 I just stumbled upon it. This is before the nurses getting here. There was just only a clothes closet and lunch, nothing else. Kathleen Clark 06:58 You've been coming for quite some time. What keeps you coming back to the health common? M Mr X 07:03 Well, you. Kathleen Clark 07:06 Well, I haven't been here that long. M Mr X 07:08 No, you've been here for what? 9 years, 10? Kathleen Clark 07:12 Yeah, so what was it about the nurses that M Mr X 07:15 How you help out. People need something you're right there for them, aspirins, cough drops, stuff like that, blood pressure. Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 5 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Kathleen Clark 07:27 And if there was something that you would consider changing about the health commons, what would you change? M Mr X 07:33 I'm happy the way it is right now. Very happy satisfied. Kathleen Clark 07:38 Well, I think us being in a trailer is an obvious, you know, challenge at times, but is there a story you could share about your favorite time at the health Commons? M Mr X 07:52 Coming here? Kathleen Clark 07:53 Yeah, like a good story or a memorable story. M Mr X 07:59 Not really, no, except meeting you that was about it. Well, the first time I met we started talking the first maybe the first day or the second day you were here maybe weeks afterwards. Kathleen Clark 08:14 Yeah, that's true. And slowly over time, you talked more and more. M Mr X 08:18 Yeah got to know each other, yeah. Kathleen Clark 08:21 Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 6 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Yeah, I think another big thing that we need to know more about too is working in inpatient in the hospitals, and the ERs, and all that kind of stuff, what are some things that nurses should know if they're taking care of somebody who is homeless? M Mr X 08:42 You just have alcoholic seizures. I've had quite a few here. And you know what to do. They weren't severe. Moderate seizures. And you know what to do even not even want to go there. Because I go to the hospital and they shipped me out to detox. Be straight out with me for three, four days. Kathleen Clark 09:10 When you go to the hospital, do you feel like most of the time people treat you with respect or do you feel like maybe you're stereotyped against? M Mr X 09:22 I don’t know anymore. I like going to Abbott Northwestern if there’s anything wrong with me. I’d rather go to Abbott Northwestern because they're more compassionate and considerate of my health. HCMC they just tell ya to shut-up and we're gonna strap you down and I need to go to the bathroom we don't care yeah so if I do have any kind of health problems yeah Abbott Northwestern. That's good to know. As far as homelessness in general, what is a big issue that you think that people need to know and be aware of that should be changed? It’s hard to find places these days to camp out. The first two times I did it they were pretty easy to find, the third time and it was a little bit difficult because I always went back to my old places and they turned into condos, hospitals, restaurants, penthouses, but this last time it was hard to find and do anything. Kathleen Clark 10:53 Being that you're from Colorado, and I understand you came to Minnesota, how come you didn't go back to Colorado and you stayed in Minnesota? M Mr X 11:02 I went back home. But that was about 20 years ago, or 20 years ago. When I went back there, most people were dead. Think it's kind of strange to people that grew up with were either dead, moved out or in prison. So I said, well, there's nothing left here for me. And I Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 7 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai came back here because a guy reminds me of Colorado in some ways that don't sit well enough stay here. Kathleen Clark 11:37 Is there anything you want to share about your birth parents or where you grew up? You don't have to, it’s up to you. M Mr X 11:43 I just grew up in foster homes, juvenile centers, foster homes. My parents and I there was no communication with them at all. Except for out of my three brothers with me no communications. Kathleen Clark 12:02 That had to be really hard. M Mr X 12:06 I was used to. Because I beat up my brothers, my brothers were beat me. And my dad would come home and beat the shit out of me and take off and disappear for a month. They never did look for me. Never did. Yeah. When they tried to pick me back check off again. It's like, fuck them. I had no communication with these people. Kathleen Clark 12:43 Do you ever keep in contact with the foster families that you live with? M Mr X 12:49 Some of them have passed away. But when I did go home, they would choose to live. And they would just wonder about my whereabouts. And I told them I'm still in Minnesota. You were pretty good decent parents, or foster parents. Even though you're collecting money, I knew that. You're getting money to get paid to watch your roommate. Feed me and clothe me. Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 8 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Kathleen Clark 13:18 How about you Jenna? Do you have any questions that I'm not asking or you could think about? J Jenna Nelson 13:25 I guess I Where do you think you find like the most resources for like, do you go to churches a lot when you were when you didn't have like a shelter to get food or health care? M Mr X 13:35 No, at the wet house they feed you over there. They got a shower, laundry you can wash clothes they're nothing but sometimes it's good sometimes it's not worth eating Kathleen Clark 13:49 Do you have a one-bedroom apartment or room? How does that work? M Mr X 13:54 Rooms like this, a little bit bigger okay. So I got my TV and my clothes there anything I have it's there Kathleen Clark 14:05 Do you feel like, because I know there's a big debate about wet-houses using taxpayer dollars to house individuals, but the long-term financial savings are supposed to be pretty remarkable. Do you think that since you've been in a wet-house you've not been admitted as much to a hospital or gone to detox as much, do you feel like you've been able to more have a home and not go into those other services much? M Mr X 14:34 Yea, I do I get my own housing, but since I got a criminal record that's pretty hard to do now because I used to get my own places. I mean just like that and some organizations came by and looked me over and said, “well you got a criminal record? We’ll help ya,” but they never did. They would come by, and just chitchat, and chitchat, and chitchat. They Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 9 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai didn’t look into nothing. I just want to come by chit chat. So I just said, “don't waste my time don't come by and just a chit chat every week, it's mundane, you're wasting your time, you’re wasting my time, just a chit chat about nothin Kathleen Clark 15:29 So when you know, you know, you want to get your own place? Is there people who help you a lot with that? Or do you have to apply for things kind of independently? M Mr X 15:40 I don’t know how they found me. I really don't know how these housing organizations knew about me, but they just came out of the blue and told me to come by and give them a call and they'll come by. Most of them were up in Saint Paul, and yea, all three of them were up in Saint Paul. Kathleen Clark 16:02 As far as like applying for health insurance, how is that? M Mr X 16:07 What is that insurance? Kathleen Clark 16:08 Yeah, like if you were to apply for health insurance. I don't know if you have health insurance or not, but is the process pretty complex and difficult or is it for other people to help with that, how has that process been? M Mr X 16:20 I've seen people get a place where I'm at right now. I got set up at the wet-house I talked to a couple of people, and they got a place just in a month. I hope I've been working with them for months on end and it's not leading up to nowhere so congratulations to you, but this really sucks, it really sucks. They say are you jealous, and I say, yeah I should be a little bit jealous maybe you don't well I think they take mostly people whose more mentally ill, more unstable, don't take them for us because they look at me well you've been homeless Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 10 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai for all your life, you know how to take care of yourself, so there's nothing wrong with you. If it was maybe we could help you, but you seem reasonable enough you could take care of yourself. Kathleen Clark 17:22 So being that you have you know you have a history of seizures and what not do you have health insurance right now. M Mr X 17:28 Uhuh, Medica. Kathleen Clark 17:30 You do? Medica and do you have to apply for that quite frequently or is it something that… M Mr X 17:34 No, they came out of the blue too because I was getting Blue Cross and Blue Shield then I got terminated from that then I got medical assistance and they said I over qualify for that so then I got Medicaid and they help if I need to get a bus card you know to my appointments, it helps. Kathleen Clark 18:04 That's good, that's awesome. M Mr X 18:07 They used to help me get a leg braces, but they can't do that and well they cut that off, they cut somethings off. Kathleen Clark 18:18 What do you think homelessness will look like? 20 years from now? Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 11 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai M Mr X 18:24 I hope I don't I hope I'm not around this. Kathleen Clark 18:30 What would you say your biggest source of strength is? What's your biggest source of strength right now? That what brings you the most strength? M Mr X 18:43 Well, my friends particularly the ones that listen to what I have to what I say. Yeah, the ones I could talk to. Kathleen Clark 18:49 The ones that you stay under the bridges with and everything. That's wonderful, that's good that you have that. M Mr X 18:54 Like I said, we don't mingle like we used to, but we do. We do. Kathleen Clark 19:01 So can you tell me a little bit about panhandling? M Mr X 19:06 I spend most of my time signing. It's hard to do that, stand on a corner with a sign trying to make something, money, food, clothes. On a given day I can make some money, some days food, other days nothing. On my good day I made a hundred dollars one day. I thought it was a ten. She folded it up as a ten and I stood out there for maybe two hours snowing, raining some lady just popped me a ten and no cars no nothing I unfolded it that was a hundred dollar bill. Kathleen Clark 19:57 So what would you say? Like, are people usually pretty respectful? Or are they rude? Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 12 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai M Mr X 20:06 They’re respectful, they’ll roll down the windows and say I'm sorry I don't have this but here's a pair of gloves or I don't well that works thank you hygiene products gift cards or other times over those roll down the window say get a job. I tell them this is my job, so technical. I tell them same thing. I know that most people are considerate. If they have an apple, or an orange, change, a cup of coffee, and I go that’s too bad, but, yeah. Kathleen Clark 20:59 I know you have so much knowledge and so much experience with your length of homelessness I there a topic that people don't usually talk about that needs awareness like our you know is there too much violence against women on the streets are there like like for example how does it work let's say you're on the busiest intersection and shower traffic how is it decided who gets those corners? M Mr X 21:36 We have to take turns by Basilica around Institute. I don't go in that area because there's maybe about 20 people waiting to get in there went out 20 people maybe 15 10 and they're just standing around there so they give you that time limit from what I'm told they give me a 30 minutes 45 minutes if you're not making nothing they’ll tell you to get off the corner and say next Kathleen Clark 22:08 Do you have to share your money when things like that happen? M Mr X 22:11 Oh no. There's somebody down there all the time kind of regulating? Who's in and who's out. Is Yeah, down by Basilica and down there. There's a lot of fights over there. Kathleen Clark 22:25 Like I have heard women say that they exchange sex for corners at certain hours. M Mr X 22:31 Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 13 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Well, I heard that too. Yeah. Kathleen Clark 22:35 I've also heard some discussions around certain corners like sometimes it's people who are more using heroin and then another corner there might be more people who are drinking alcohol. M Mr X 22:48 Yeah, yeah. That's true too. I don't shoot up I just have a few quick bumps to get me warm, give me enough courage to get out there and do it just doing it sober is kind of embarrassing on why am I out here this is embarrassing I need stuff to there get you motivated to do it. MX: Yeah, if you go down by Basilica you’ll see quite a few people waitin and hit those corners at Basilica. I guess that I'll go in that area I got my own little area well there's only me and there's two other people, and we’ll work in series of each other well hey I'm done do you want to take over you can have it. Kathleen Clark 23:49 Let's say I was to become homeless tomorrow what is one thing of advice you would give me if I was a newly homeless individual if I was a newly homeless person what advice would you give me? M Mr X 24:02 I would tell you where to go like which place to go to like who can really help you like central Lutheran. I would say Mary Jo’s, but I heard that kind of a turn over a new leaf they don't help out as much they used to the Red Cross some of the churches st. Stephens Simpsons they'll help how to get situated, St. Olaf’s. Kathleen Clark 24:36 I know there's like all this talk about all these ends or plans and homelessness. What would your plan to end homelessness look like? M Mr X 24:44 Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 14 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Look like no there always will be homelessness because I know a friend she's doing that but she's working for Homeless Connect trying to get people out of homelessness and stuff and I'll don’t see nothing in it, I don't see no any improvements I tell her that too yeah there’s always gonna be homelessness. She says, yea well we’re tryin. Yea, you’re tryin, but I see more homeless people then I used to see 20, 30 years ago. The first time I didn't see women with kids on the corners trying to survive and now every time I’m outside I'll see woman with kids trying to sign tryin to tryin to make something. First time, no I never seen it, now I've seen even more women with kids being homeless and trying to sign do what they gotta do. I have some money occasionally I'll do it for them. I'll help them out. Other times if it’s a dude no I didn’t it, I ain't gonna help you man cuz I know what you're gonna do with your money. You're gonna go out and blow it all get drunk get high no I'd rather help a woman with a kid than help you. Kathleen Clark 26:23 Well, thank you so much for your time. Mr. X, you've answered so many important questions and shared so much so we appreciate that. M Mr X 26:33 Thank you. Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 15 of 15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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