Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:00
It is November 22, 2019 and I'm Chyanne Phravoraxa. I am the oral historian for this oral history
project. And I'm here with Amal Issa. Can you state your full name and age?
Amal Issa 0:15
My name is Amal Issa, and I'm 18 years old.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:20
All righ... Show more
Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:00
It is November 22, 2019 and I'm Chyanne Phravoraxa. I am the oral historian for this oral history
project. And I'm here with Amal Issa. Can you state your full name and age?
Amal Issa 0:15
My name is Amal Issa, and I'm 18 years old.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:20
All right. So we're gonna start with your background. So where were you born and raised?
Amal Issa 0:25
I was born in Minneapolis, downtown Minneapolis, and I was raised here so I lived here all my
life.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:32
Okay. And how many siblings do you have?
Amal Issa 0:35
I have eight siblings, two brothers and sisters.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:40
Nice. So growing up in Minneapolis, did you feel like you were surrounded by your community?
Or did you ever feel like discriminated against?
Amal Issa 0:52
I, I felt I was surrounded by my community, because I think outside Somalia, Minnesota has the
largest population of Somalis? So I was constantly surrounded by Somalis. I didn't feel left out,
in a sense.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 1:06
Nice. So, in terms of your religious upbringing, how was that like? :ike, did you guys go to the
mosque often? Did you celebrate the holidays?
Amal Issa 1:16
Yeah. I'm Muslim. So I spent like, a lot of time in mosques and celebrating. We only have like,
two holidays. So yeah, we'd celebrate those. But we wouldn't really- So I went to like a small
school so we would get it off to celebrate, but like when I got into university, it's not considered a
national holiday. So I'd have to like skip class.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 1:43
Oh, okay. So can you give more detail about what you remember growing up and celebrating
the certain traditions and stuff?
Amal Issa 1:53
Yeah. Um, when we're celebrating, this is like a one specific restaurant we always go to. And
like, we've been going there for, however many years it's like, tradition now, for us to go there.
But it feels weird when we don't go, because over the summer we were out of the country. So it
was only my dad and my sister left here. And the rest of us didn't go, so it felt kind of weird
adjusting to life outside of what I grew up knowing.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 2:25
So when- You said, You guys go in the summer. So is that for Ramadan? Or what is that for,
when you go to the restaurant? Or is that just like a family thing?
Amal Issa 2:35
It's for Eid. So our two holidays. Yeah. But yeah, the last one was in the summer, but we're out
of the country. So we didn't end up going.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 2:44
Okay, so how was it like going- or going in? I mean, going to Somalia?
Amal Issa 2:48
Um, it was weird, because it's my first time out of the country ever. So it took a lot of adjusting.
Like, when I'm in Minnesota, it's like, "oh, you're too Somali". But when we're there everyone
knew us as the American kids. So it was kind of like, it put us off a little, because everyone, like,
even when we didn't speak, everyone automatically knew us. I think we're like the talk of the
neighborhood. But it was weird kind of adjusting to the different way of life. And it could be that
hard to adjust to it. I liked it.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:23
So how long were you there?
Amal Issa 3:25
Two months.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:26
Two months? Okay, and did you stay with family or did you go to like, a hotel or something?
Amal Issa 3:32
No, my mom was renting a house there. So, we stayed there for two months, but we had family
over every single day. So it felt it felt nice, because everyone's so busy when we're here, but
there's it's like a new person's coming to visit us every day. It was nice.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:47
Oh, it's nice. And how was Eid there compared to here? Like how you celebrate it? What would
you say?
Amal Issa 3:55
I missed Eid here. It was weird over- It was nice. But I was just so used to having- Celebrating
Eid here. So it felt kind of weird, but we went to the ocean, which is pretty nice. It was very
pretty. But we spent it around family, so I liked that.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 4:14
How are you involved in the Muslim community and how were you like, I guess, as a child and
then to now like, how were you involved in community? Muslim or like, Somali too?
Amal Issa 4:26
Okay. Um, as a child, I spent most of my time surrounded by Somalis, as I said earlier, but I
went to like a small, charter school, that was mostly Somali. But now going to University of
Minnesota, I kind of want to give back, so I volunteer at the Brian Coyle Center in South
Minneapolis and I just helped tutor kids there. It's a nice experience and I get to help out in my
own way.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 4:56
Yeah. And at Brian coil- So can you give more detail on that program like, what kind of kids are
there or is it connected with other schools?
Amal Issa 5:04
Yeah. Okay, so the Brian Coyle Center is like a community center for the Cedar Riverside area
in South Minneapolis. It's close by here. But it's mainly Somali- A Somali community, people that
live there. So a lot of Somalis come in, but I work. I volunteer in the Teen Tech Center, and it's
funded by Best Buy. But what I do is, I tutor youth between around like, 5th to 9th- 10th grade,
and I just helped them with their homework. It's mainly after school, so if they ever need help,
the kids that live inside the area, they come and they get that they need.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 5:47
And how long have you been volunteering there?
Amal Issa 5:50
About a year and a half now. I started there, because of the scholarship I got, but ended up
really liking it. So I went back.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 5:57
Oh, nice. So you're talking about the University a lot. So what made you choose the University
of Minnesota?
Amal Issa 6:06
Honestly, my first choice was Augsburg.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 6:09
Oh, really?
Amal Issa 6:09
Yeah, I was like, set on coming here. But along the way, I had like some financial issues. I
applied, I got accepted and everything, but there's like some financial issues. So I ended up just
like, on a whim, choosing the University of Minnesota. I didn't really want to go there, but I love
it. It's so much more different than I thought it would be.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 6:29
So what did you think it would be like? Or like why didn't you want to at first?
Amal Issa 6:34
Well, my sister goes there, so I thought it would be weird. But, um, I grew up like in South
Minneapolis, really close to the University of Minnesota. So I spent a lot of my time there. And I
felt like I knew what was going on there. And it seemed like really small to me, but it's gigantic.
It's amazing. It's beautiful. But, um, what was the question?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 6:59
Oh, I guess I asked you- Sorry, I asked you what made you go against it before? Yeah, what
you thought about it before and I guess what you think about it now?
Amal Issa 7:08
Yeah, I thought it'd be like a small school, because I went to St. Paul college and St. Paul
College was a really small and diverse- When I came here it's, you know, a predominantly white
school, but I love it. It's big. There a lot of opportunities and a lot of different things I could do to
feel kind of like at home.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 7:31
Okay. And, um, do you know your major yet?
Amal Issa 7:35
Yeah. I'm majoring in mathematics. Hopefully to minor in Arabic.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 7:40
Okay, cool. So they have- They offer Arabic classes then there?
Amal Issa 7:45
Yeah, I'm taking one the semester. I wanted to minor in Spanish, but I just gonna put that on
hold, because it's a little too hard for right now.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 7:53
Yeah. So how is the Arabic class? Is it like what you thought it would be? Or- Or did you have
expectations of it?
Amal Issa 8:01
Yeah, so growing up Muslim. Arabic played a huge plays a huge role in my life. So I thought like
I knew enough, and I did not enough, to like get me by, because in like an Arab country or
anything, but I really don't know anything about the basics, but it's- My teacher is great. It's
making me fall in love with the language and that's why I want to continue, because- Just the
way he teaches it makes me really like it.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 8:31
It's great. So I'm sorry, I guess I'm jumping back to like Islam. But um, how do you think Islam
affects your everyday life? Like do you pray or is there anything that you do?
Amal Issa 8:45
Um, well, it affects the way I dress because I wear the hijab every day. But yeah, I pray every
day. It doesn't really affect my life, because I just have to take a couple of minutes out of my day
to go and do my prayers, but I think it helps me feel like more at ease, knowing that like thingsthings will turn out okay.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 9:09
And when did you start wearing your hijab?
Amal Issa 9:12
Um, I'm not sure.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 9:15
Oh, you're not sure?
Amal Issa 9:15
It's been a while. Yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 9:16
Oh, okay. Yeah. So moving on to, I guess your current life in terms of like Sisterhood Boutique
or like your after high school life, I guess. What made you connect with Sisterhood Boutique?
Amal Issa 9:36
It's a weird story, because my sister, um, interned there summer of last- 2018. Yeah, summer
2018, my sister interned there and I was unemployed then. I was just at home, most of the time.
And my sister was going to go on a camping trip to the Boundary Waters. So she's like, "oh,
since you're at home all the time, uh, you should come along". So I was like "Okay, why not?"
We ended up- And it was with Sisterhood Boutique, so I invited a friend and we ended up going
camping with them for a week. It was brutal, but I guess we kind of bonded, while we were
there, because the store manager,at the time, went with us and she offered us jobs afterwards.
We ended up interning there and I interned there for about eight, nine months, and then my
internship ended, the beginning of the summer, right before we left for Somalia.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 10:31
Oh, okay. And can you explain what you did at Sisterhood Boutique?
Amal Issa 10:37
Yeah, so for the most part, we'd work on the store floo, just arranging the front and doing
inventory in the back, helping customers. But we also attended a couple different events. We
helped with their annual fashion show. And yeah, that's mainly what we did. But since I stopped
working, I just go back a couple times a week to help out.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 11:05
Yeah, that's sweet. So what other events do you remember? Other than the fashion show?
Amal Issa 11:12
I can't remember their names. But, um, I was invited to represent, like, Pillsburg United
community. So Sisterhood is under the Pillsbury United Community. So I was invited to present
them at the Women's Foundation of Minnesota. I think it was in like April, I think. Yeah. So I was
invited to represent them. And it was like an equity summit, at the Radisson Blu, but it was a
really cool experience. Oh, what else did we do?I can't remember most their names. But we
went to a lot of events.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 11:49
That's okay. Is there anything you'd like to say to people in your community or like any
messages that you would like to put out?
Amal Issa 12:00
I guess there's like, a lot of problems with the youth right now. So just like a message, would be
like, we'll get through it. I mean, our parents survived Civil War, so we can survive anything. So
we'll get through it.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 12:15
And when did your parents come here? Like, did any of your older siblings come with them? Or
born in Somalia?
Amal Issa 12:22
No. So all of my siblings and I were born in Minneapolis, but I think my mom was like, 19 when
the Civil War broke out, and she met my father in Canada, soChyanne Phravoraxay 12:32
Oh really?
Amal Issa 12:33
Yeah. They- So they fled, during the Civil War and my mom- She went through a lot of different
countries, but I know she ended up in Canada and a dad somehow ended up in Canada. That's
where they met and then they decided to relocate to Minnesota and we've been here ever since.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 12:51
Okay, and are any of your extended family to like your aunts or maybe grandma, grandpa?
Amal Issa 12:59
Yeah. I've never met my grandparents. But one, my dad's mother is in Somalia right now. And
the rest passed away already. So I never met them. But I have a couple aunts and uncles
scattered around the United States and Canada. But I'd say most of my, like, close family's back
home in Somalia.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 13:25
What do you hope to do with your degree in mathematics?
Amal Issa 13:28
Uh, I'd love to be a teacher. So I'm, I'm studying mathematics, but I'm also in the direct track to
teaching program at University of Minnesota. And in order to get into the licensure program, I
have to major in the subject area I want to teach. So, yeah. That's what I'm doing right now.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 13:47
Okay. And do you have an idea about what age you're thinking of teaching?
Amal Issa 13:53
I'm stuck between to middle school and high school. I still don't know yet. But one of those
hopefully.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 13:58
Chronologically, where do you stand in your siblings? Like are you the middle child or
youngest?
Amal Issa 14:06
I'd say somewhere in the middle. I have three sisters older than me and then five siblings
younger than me, including my two brothers. So not exactly the middle, but around that.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 14:23
Okay. About that restaurant that you're talking about, so when do you remember your first time
going there? Or have you- your family been doing that like before you were even born, because
I know you're like, kind of in the middle-ish.
Amal Issa 14:37
It start started, I think maybe like 10-12 years ago, but I'm not sure exactly when. I think it was
too young to remember. But yeah, it was a while ago, and we started going to like another one
also, but now it's been about 8 years so. Yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 14:59
So you mentioned going to the charter school, as a child. So what other ethnicities did you, likeI guess were you learning with or like other students?
Amal Issa 15:11
Okay, so the majority were Somali, but there's also like different, um, Arab cultures like
Egyptians and Syrians but also like Pakistanis, Afghanis. But mainly Somali.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 15:30
And was- Oh, sorry. What were you gonna say? Oh. Was the- was Islam ever like tied into it?
Amal Issa 15:38
Um, not really. They like, give us like a certain amount of time, if we needed to go pray, but
other than that it wasn't really tied into it. But for holidays we would get it off. Yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 15:57
And for the university- Because you did say that there was a change in like, being surrounded
by your community and then going to university, did you ever feel like uncomfortable or was it
just new?
Amal Issa 16:09
Okay, so when I- 2016, when I was starting my junior year of high school, I started doing PSCO
at St. Paul College first, and St. Paul college was really diverse. And I had a couple of my
friends who were doing PSCO with me, so I was very comfortable there. It was a bit of a
change, but I was still comfortable. But I graduated from high school and St. Paul college, um,
May 2018. And then I started at the University of Minnesota, September 2018. And it was a big
change 'cause I didn't really know anyone there. And it was- It's a predominantly white school,
so I was mainly surrounded by white people and it felt different because I was so used to be
surrounded by Somalis and my friends and it was a bit uncomfortable, but I got used to it.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 17:00
Just judging from what I've heard about, like you being involved in like the Sisterhood Boutique
and you went to the events, are you involved in any other activist stuff?
Amal Issa 17:11
Any other extracurriculars?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 17:13
Yeah, that too. Yeah.
Amal Issa 17:15
Um, well, for my teaching program, I have to, like, observe, like a high school teacher or a
middle school teacher teaching. So I'm, I'm usually a South High- South High School in South
Minneapolis on Fridays and Thursday mornings, just observing a math teacher. But other than
that, I work through the University of Minnesota with America Reads, and I'm literacy mentor,
around Franklin at- it's called Projects for Pride and Living, but yeah, I tutor there. Like two days
of the week.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 17:53
So how does that compare to Brian Coyle? Because I know you tutored up at both but they're
different, like organizations.
Amal Issa 18:01
So with- PPL is Projects for Pride in Living, so I'll just call it that. PPL, I worked with just one
student each time I'm there. So we like get into a habit of doing things a certain way. But when
i'm at Brian Coyle, I work with a bunch of different students and sometimes like there's really no
one to tutor. So I'm just like hanging out. So it's a little different, in that way, but it's very
structured at PPL and Brian Coyle was kind of like, "whoever comes comes". So it's kind of
different in that way but I like both of them equally.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 18:39
And what do you think of your- I guess, I forgot the term. Was it- does the observation I guess or
is that- that's not an internship, right? You're just observing the teacher?
Amal Issa 18:49
Yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 18:50
Okay.
Amal Issa 18:50
It's just, I, service learning. That's what it is.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 18:53
Oh. Okay. Service Learning.How is that? Like can you give me more details on it?
Amal Issa 18:57
Well, yeah. Um, so when I first started, I was in a chemistry classroom, and I'm a math major. I
took chemistry like four years ago. So I don't really know anything. I forgot everything. So it was
kind of weird. But the teacher was a great teacher, I loved his way of teaching. And then he
somehow got me into a math classroom to observe that, and she's also- the teacher I'm working
with, she's also a great teacher, it's just a bit calmer. It's interesting to look at stuff from like, a
teacher's perspective, the teacher's perspective now, because I've been so used to being a
student. Yeah, that's kind of interesting and like a new experience.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 19:39
So, um, this is just from my knowledge of like, education majors, but when do you start getting
involved in like, becoming like a teacher's assistant and like, teaching with them? Do you know?
Amal Issa 19:54
Um, I think that'll be when I'm in the licensure program. So after I can make bachelor's, is what I
would think. It's my first year in the teaching program, so I'm not really sure. Each school's
different, butChyanne Phravoraxay 20:07
Oh, okay. And other than becoming a teacher do you think you're going topursue more
education or any other plans, alongside being a teacher?
Amal Issa 20:18
I don't want to stay in school very long. But um, originally I wanted to go into the medical field,
but the years of schooling just put me off, and I love teaching, so I was like "Uh, I could do this
instead!". But I'd love to be like an EMT or paramedic one day.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 20:36
Oh, really?
Amal Issa 20:36
Yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 20:37
Okay.
Amal Issa 20:38
We'll see how that goes. I was gonna say like, I'm thinking of applying for- So St. Paul and
Minneapolis, they have like an EMS Academy thing that they do every year, so I was thinking
maybe I should apply for that next year.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 20:55
That is so interesting, because of- because of your history, as like becoming an teacher and
then the EMT, I wouldn't imagine, but that's interesting. When you start teaching, do you plan on
staying like within Minneapolis?
Amal Issa 21:09
That's a hard question. I'd love to travel outside, but at the same time Minneapolis is my home.
I'd like to sort of give back in a way. So I think I'd teach here first, for at least a couple of years.
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 21:25
Nice. You said there's problems with the youth like, do you? Can you pinpoint them? Or likeAmal Issa 21:34
There's a lot of problems with opioids right now. And I went to an event at Brian Coyle, a couple
weeks ago, and they were just opening up the floor to bring like questions that the youth have
forward about it. And they were just also educating the youth and their parents about the
different types of drugs and how they affect you. And if you see someone having an overdose,
what you could do. And they were like handing out in narcan too. So I thought that was very
interesting and it's just like- It's been something that's been like kept quiet for so long. It feels- It
feels nice to see it being brought up into the open and hear people talking about it and like trying
to take steps forward to see how they could help people who are suffering from like with drug
abuse.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 22:33
Um, I think- Because we did watch a video. It was like by Somali TV, in class, and it was like this
woman talking about her addiction, so i think, i don't know if that was like from them?
Amal Issa 22:45
Was she sitting?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 22:46
She was sitting and there's like two guys or like, I don't know.
Amal Issa 22:51
Um, they held that like a week or- Two or three weeks after the one I went to. So I didn't really
see that one.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 22:58
Oh, but they were not connected like by an organization or?
Amal Issa 23:01
I think they were. There's this group called, like the- Changing the Narrative, and they're the
ones that held the first one and I think they might have helped organize that one too.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 23:12
Okay and why do you think this is happening within the- within the community?
Amal Issa 23:18
I really do not know. I don't know. It's- it's kind of like, a new topic to me too, because it's not
something like, I've heard of. But where I grew up- Where we live right now, it's not really the
safest and we like see things that people shouldn't be seeing. So it's like, not that new to me.
But it's new to me, in the sense that I haven't heard of it happening in the Somali community as
much.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 23:49
Oh, okay. Thank you so much for coming them all. Are there any last things you'd like to say?
Amal Issa 23:57
Not really.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 23:57
No? Okay. Thank you very much.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Aisha Sow 0:04
I'm Aisha Sow, I'm a part of the oral history project for Muslims in Minnesota at Augsburg University.
I'm here in St. Paul, Minnesota, interviewing Valerie Shirley. So sister Valerie, if you can introduce
yourself to the recording by saying your full name when and where you ... Show more
Aisha Sow 0:04
I'm Aisha Sow, I'm a part of the oral history project for Muslims in Minnesota at Augsburg University.
I'm here in St. Paul, Minnesota, interviewing Valerie Shirley. So sister Valerie, if you can introduce
yourself to the recording by saying your full name when and where you were born.
Valerie Shirley 0:23
I am Valerie Shirley. And I was born in (Southside) Chicago, Illinois. And {censored}
so, saying that you're were born in Chicago, Illinois. What? What experiences has that impacted on your
life?
Well, growing up in Chicago, it had good times and bad times. We grew up in the inner city, Chicago and
in a really poor neighborhood. It was really crime ridden, drug ridden. If you didn't have a lot of money,
you couldn't really live anywhere safe in Chicago and my mother was very poor. Growing up in Chicago
was tough taught me to be strong, but I had a very loving mom who protected me and protected my
brothers. Um, I have four brothers and two sisters, one sister on my father's side. So she didn't grow up
with us. But she did grow up in Chicago not too far away from us. My mother protected us and she taught
us how to love and how to keep ourselves safe. So it wasn't always bad.
Aisha Sow
What lessons that you learned from your mom do you think have the biggest impact on your life?
So the biggest impact from my mom, I would say is two things, the gift of literacy, and the gift of
unconditional love. My mother only went to eighth grade. She was born in a time she was born in the Jim
Crow Era. And that was a time where you could easily fall through the cracks for a black person get an
education wasn't that important. nobody really cared if you dropped out of school. So my mom dropped
out of school at a very young age. But she somehow knew it was really important for me to go to school.
And it was really important for me to learn to read, and she taught me how to read at a very young age. I
can remember reading to my mom, at three years old, I would be reading the newspaper to her, and she
would correct my articulation and tell me how to say this sounds and she gave me phonemic awareness.
And it turned me into a person who loved reading. So going to school only till eighth grade. I don't know
how she knew it was so important for me to be in school and be smart and learn how to read but that's
something she gave me a passion for learning and passion for reading. The second thing was
unconditional love. It was like family first, family over everything. And she made sure that she always put
us first even over herself. And when anybody in the family was in trouble, we all bonded together.
Because that's what our mom taught us to bond together to take care of each other. And no matter what it
was like you always love family, no matter what they can go through hard times, things can happen that
seem really bad. And they can make you angry, but you still love them and you still support them no
matter what. So those are the two most important things that my mom gave me. A love for literacy and
unconditional love.
Aisha Sow 3:39
That's amazing. So, knowing that you grew up in Illinois, how did you get to Minnesota?
Valerie Shirley 3:47
Well, that's an interesting story. So I grew up in Chicago, and I had two daughters when I was in my mid
20s. And like I said, I grew up in a really crime infested drug ridden neighborhood. And teen pregnancy
was just off the charts. And just anything that you can imagine that our social ills that happened in
poverty stricken neighborhoods. And I used to tell myself that I had to protect my girls from all of the
negative, negative ways that society could impact them because I had seen too many victims of society.
No matter how hard you worked to raise your kids safely, somehow they were lost to tragedy or teen
pregnancy or substance abuse. And I remember saying that I need to be I need to have my daughters not
be a part of the world. Know about it and understand it but not get lost in it. And at the time, my
children's father explored Minnesota a friend of his had moved to Minnesota, and was telling them how
nice it was and how you don't need a lot of money to live in a safe neighborhood in Minnesota and how
the public schools were so much better than Chicago public schools. So it was actually due to my
children's father that I moved here. I was a student at Northeastern Illinois University at the time, and he
convinced me to move to Minnesota telling me that it was a better place. And even though my roots were
deep in Chicago, and all my family was there, I said, Okay, I'll give it a try. And packed up and moved to
Minnesota and he was right, some much better place to raise kids. It was so much easier for me to protect
my kids here than it was in Chicago.
That was in 1998 when I moved to Minnesota,
Aisha Sow
Wow. That's when my parents came. Was the transition between coming from Illinois to Minnesota a
hard one? Or was it relatively easy in your opinion?
Valerie Shirley
It was relatively easy in my opinion, because it was a nicer place to live. I think the only odd things about
the transition was that it was a little bit of a different culture. Chicago is big city fast living and Minnesota
was kind of small town compared to Chicago, even though it's city you know, and it's urban. But it was
very different. And I remember standing on a bus stop here in Minnesota, and to get on the bus. There
was a very nice straight line in order to get on a bus and that didn't happen in Chicago, you just bum rush
the door in Chicago, and if you do first when they get there, you get off the bus. So there was no order
organization like that. And I can remember having lived here, maybe one or two months, and I was
standing on the bus stop, and I was the only person there. And this guy came up and started talking to me
and he was talking about the weather and baseball. And so I've got my Chicago mentality on and I'm like,
oh, Lord, he's about to rob me or he's about to try to do something wrong. So I strap my purse around my
whole body and put it behind him making sure he can't snatch it. And then I stood and ready stance. So in
case I needed to fight, I was all ready and guarded. And he was just he kept chatting. And I was thinking
to myself, what is this dude up to? I was, you know, not really listening to him. I was just ready for
something to happen. And then he looks up at the bus stop sign and says, oh, the 22 doesn't stop here.
Wait, I'm on the wrong stop. Well, nice chatting with you. I hope you have a great day. And he walks
away. And I'm like, hey, wait, was he really Just being nice to me. And that taught me something about
the difference of the culture. I was like, oh, Minnesota nice. It really is kind of nice, I guess, you know. So
the only transition was being able to let my guard down a little and not know that everybody that
approached me with small talk without the get me because in Chicago, that's a red flag, get ready for
something bad to happen. But other than that, it was, um, it was relatively easy.
I think another difficult transition, I guess was that in Chicago, racism and discrimination is very much
alive. It is everywhere in the United States. But in Chicago, you know, who does not like you? It's very
clear, you know what neighborhoods not to go in. You know, what white people don't like black people.
They're very open and clear about it. In Minnesota. All the white people act like they like you no matter
what. And then behind your back, they do things like get you fired. And, you know, and do things to like
harm your family, you know, maybe not physically but socially and emotionally. So that was a difficult
transition. I thought that so many white people were my friend until things happened like me being
targeted at my work for being myself. And, you know, if I acted too black and I didn't code switch, and so
that was a little bit of a difficult transition, transition, just having to play this political game of knowing
who I can be myself around and who I can't. So other than that, everything was pretty, pretty easy.
Aisha Sow
Um, so just a little background story have, have you in your family been Muslim for your whole life or
was it later in life?
Valerie Shirley
So for me, I became Muslim later in life. I actually became Muslim one year After I moved here, maybe
about one year after I grew up Baptist Christian, and for the most part that Baptist Christian was
something we put on applications because we didn't go to church very often. When I became an adult,
more so when I came about 16, I really wanted to start to explore my religion, which was Christianity at
the time. You know, teenagers have this time of storm and stress and turmoil and you feel like nobody
understands you and just everything's horrible. So I was going through that time, my teenage years, and
my my brother, who is now an ordained Christian minister, I can just remember him saying, you need
God in your life. You need God in your life whenever you you know, whenever you are feeling hopeless
or helpless, just open the Bible and read it. I can remember him telling me that so many times, and he, my
brother, was really my father figure. Our father was not in our lives. And so I looked to my brother and I
really respected him and trusted him. So, and I would do what he said, I would pick up the Bible when I
read it, and lo and behold, my heart would be lightened, and I would feel guided, and I would know what
to do, and I wouldn't feel so hopeless. So I've decided to start going back to church, and, or going to
church because I can only remember going once as a little kid, but I started looking for a church that I
could go to because people, Christians look for a church home. And so it's like, I'm going to find a nice
church I can go to and couldn't find anything that I was really very interested in. Churches would turn me
away because I wore pants or I would find that people were very gossipy and you know, very, like
backstabbing and it was just like, I'm like, these are not believing people. You know? That's how I would
feel like that's not how God fearing people are supposed to act. So what I decided to do was like, I'm just
going to read the Bible from cover to cover, I want to understand it myself, because I would. So I started
reading it. And then I had questions. So I was like, I really need to go back to church because I got to ask
pastors to explain some of this stuff to me that I don't understand. Went back to church and started asking
questions, but I was met with a lot of negativity, they were like, you don't question the Bible. And that's
the devil making you ask all these questions. In retrospect, I think they just didn't know that I answered
them because they weren't like theologians. They weren't like Christian scholars, you know, they were
just ministers or you know, leaders of the church and stuff. So, you know, people would always say, you
need Jesus, that's the devil in you. And so that ran me away from church again, and I was like, You know
what, I'm just going to ask God to help me understand it. And I read the Bible from cover to cover and I
Um, one thing I didn't find was Jesus being crucified. And I always thought that was just the most
horrible story of like, you know, why would God allow Jesus to be crucified? And how is God and Jesus
the same? You know, it was just that whole Trinity always had questions about it and nobody could
explain it. So I read the Bible from cover to cover and that led me to studying other religions. You know,
I was like, You know what, I want to study Judaism and I studied that and then either like, you can't
become Jewish. Unless you were born and went to a Jewish mom, like, okay, can't do that. I studied. I
mean, I studied with Jehovah's Witnesses. I studied Buddhism and Confucianism and I just started to
research all these old religions and one common theme now mind you, I studied everything but Islam.
Why? Because I lived two blocks away from temple number 73. The Nation of Islam and the fruit of
Islam paraded our neighborhood. And I knew them well. I respected them, they protected us, and they
were very respectful. But they were always telling me that the white man was the devil. And they told me
I couldn't eat greens and sweet potatoes, I'm like greens and sweet potatoes is what my mama raised me
on.
I'm not giving up greens and sweet potato you know, so it was really odd so I thought I knew what Islam
was. I didn't know at the time that that was a sect. That was a sect of Islam. I thought that they were you
know, genuinely This is Islam. So I didn't bother to study that because I knew what that was about. And
over, studying all the religions, I found one common theme is that everyone believed in a higher power. It
was all about faith and forgiveness and mind and body and spirit and keeping the body clean, keeping the
heart clean and generosity and I was like, every religion says this So I was like, You know what, I'm not
going to label myself. I'm just a believer. I'm not a Christian. I'm not a Buddhist. I'm not you know, I am a
believer. So I started studying metaphysics. And I thought I had it, you know, I thought I knew what was
going on because I was like, I'm going to become one with the cosmos. And um just so happened that my
first husband took his Shahadah. And I was happy for him. You know, I thought he was like, lost because
I was like, God didn't make the word religion. That's a man made word. So, I was like, you just have to be
a believer. And I was like, okay, you're Muslim huh. Okay? I'm like, I'm happy because he was agnostic
before. I'm like, I'm just happy you believe something. So that's great for you. And, lo and behold, I
moved here to Minnesota with him. And I met a lot of his Muslim friends at the University of Minnesota,
because I entered the University of Minnesota to finish my degree. And I went to what they call I think
it's Islamic Islam Awareness Week now or something like that they have it every spring, but I think it
might have might have been the same thing back then in 1998 or 99. And there was a lecture by a brother
and I remember it was Muhammad in the Bible and Jesus in the Quran and, and that was very interesting
to me because I already read the Bible, from cover to cover. I went to that, and everything that he talked
about what Islam was, was what I believed, and I couldn't deny that this is something that is calling me, I
went home that night, and I had all these weird dreams people chasing me with Bibles telling me, what
are you going to do about this? What are you gonna do? And I was like, I mean, it was like, it was really
odd. And I woke up the next morning and said, I need to become Muslim. And I took my Shahada by
myself, I picked up one of those little pamphlets that said, how to become a Muslim and, oh, take a bath,
so I ran my bath water, you know, make ghusl and said my Shahada. And there it was, I became Muslim
in 1999.
Valerie Shirley
Yeah, so that was a long story.
Aisha Sow
So that kind of piggybacking off of that, seeing that when you came to Minnesota and you learned the
difference between how people in Minnesota act before versus people in Chicago, do you, do you think,
what's it called? Your Muslim identity affected any way that they interacted with you or you were a you
weren't that expressive yet? Yeah.
Valerie Shirley
When I first became Muslim, I really only hung out with Muslims. So I didn't have a lot of connect to,
like just the mainstream community of other religions, because I became Muslim. And I was hanging out
with the Muslims at the university. And then I started teaching at Al-Amal school. So I was working with
Muslims going to school with Muslims living at home at Muslims. Because my husband was Muslim and
our kids were little they were 11 and four, so they automatically became Muslim.
So I didn't notice much interaction from the outside community for a number of years. until I started
working in public schools, when I started teaching in public school districts, then I was very expressive
and I'm very outgoing person. And I'm pretty aggressive actually. So when people would say things, I
would automatically correct them and people always would ask me a lot of questions. So I was always
happy to answer their questions. And so I just spent a lot of time given dawah, but I didn't.
Not a lot.
Just I don't know I think Allah protected me honestly. Because, like all my life, even if I wanted to do
stuff that was bad, somehow Allah pulled me out of it, without me even knowing. I mean, I would try to
go hang out in bad places, and somehow one of my brothers would catch me or something would happen,
and even here in Minnesota, as an adult, I would have friends who were not so savory, but they were kind
of fun, those kind of friends, you know, you shouldn't be with them too much. And I would hang with
people like that sometime and they would just disappear from my life.
Aisha Sow 20:16
Hmm
Valerie Shirley 20:16
They would just move or the circumstances in my life would separate me from them, I'd get a new job or,
you know, we just so I honestly feel like Allah has been just protecting me from too much negative
interaction, if that makes sense.
Aisha Sow 20:33
Let's live a very peaceful life.
Valerie Shirley 20:36
I mean, of course, I've have experienced tragedy just like everybody else. But yeah, Islam gives me the
ability to cope with tragedy. So,
Aisha Sow 20:48
So one quick question, what did you study in school?
Valerie Shirley 20:52
I studied Elementary Education when I first started school. Well, actually my first first starting of school
Way back in 1985. And I studied accounting. But then I got pregnant with my first daughter. And I was
like, Hmm, I better finish up quick so I can get a job and I changed my major to secretarial sciences,
sciences because I already had, like a lot of keyboarding and math classes that you need it for that for
clerical work. And then I went to work for a while. And then I went back to school for elementary
education. And I was an Elementary Ed major to become a teacher, and I was a music education minor.
And then when I came to University of Minnesota transferred here, I went right into the elementary
education program with college education, human development, and I was a music minor.
Aisha Sow 21:48
Mhmm
Valerie Shirley 21:49
And I remember being at the masjid and somebody asked me "oh so what are you studying?" I was like,
elementary education and music education. Somebody's whispered, "Isn't that haraam" what you were
like? And so people started whispering, "like I think music is haraam, she shouldn't be studying that".
And so I got this, I got this fear.
And I was like, Oh my god, I don't want to do anything haraam. I'm a new Muslim.
Aisha Sow 22:16
Yeah
Valerie Shirley 22:16
So I just want to be halal that's all I want to be. I want to be right and only do anything that's forbidden.
And, you know, I didn't know a lot back then I changed my major, major in music, and now I kind of
regret it. Because I'm like, you know what? I'll never forget somebody telling me Allah ordered the
destruction of musical instruments. Nobody should be playing music. And I was like, What, really? But
then I thought about it. I was like, if Allah ordered the destruction of musical instruments, guess what,
there would be none.
So it was just really crazy that that impacted me and I changed my major and I graduated with my
bachelor's in elementary education. But I honestly changed it along the way because my son got sick.
Aisha Sow 23:08
Yeah
Valerie Shirley 23:09
He got sick with meningitis and he became deaf, my youngest son, and when he did that, I started taking
sign language in school.
Aisha Sow 23:17
Mhmm
Valerie Shirley 23:18
So that's when I fell in love with sign language and realized that I should do something else. And so I
changed my bachelor's from just being elementary education and I went to my counselor and told him I
wanted a bachelor's in individualized study so I could create my own. So I had changed my major like
several times, so I had all these credits from all these crazy places. And I changed it and got element of
bachelor and individualized studies with a focus on deaf education, elementary education and Native
American history in Law.
Aisha Sow 23:54
Wow
Valerie Shirley 23:55
And then after I did that, I went back and got my masters in Deaf Education and started teaching deaf and
hard of hearing children.
Aisha Sow 24:04
Um, what were there any hardships for you when you first started learning how to do sign language?
Valerie Shirley 24:13
Not really. I absolutely fell in love with the language. And the deaf community kind of embraced me
because whenever they found out that I was learning sign language so that I could communicate with my
son. That was a big perk. And I figured out that early on, I my first sign language class I was an hour late
and went to University Minnesota thought the class started is six started at five. She was like my classes
for I was like, Well, I was hoping I can get a magic number. Now mind you, she's deaf and she's talking
to me through an interpreter. And she was like, "No, I'm not giving out any magic numbers" and my eyes
started to water. I'm really emotional. When she, you know, rejected me like that, and my eyes started to
water and she saw my face. And she said, Just sit down, you can stay here for this first class. And so I
went and sat down. And
as I sat down, she said,
"Now I'm, you know, I'm going to tell the interpreter to leave. Does anybody have any questions?" And I
remember thinking to myself, what she can tell the interpreter leave how we going to learn. The
interpreter laughed, and she started teaching us and lo and behold, it's an ASL immersion class, and we all
learned very easily. And I was just like, wow, this is absolutely amazing. I was just so impressed. At the
end of that class. She called me up and she wrote back and forth to me in English and said, "Why do you
want to be in my class?" And I said, "My son is deaf and I want to learn sign language to communicate
with him" and I handed it back to her, her face turned red and her eyes filled up. And she said, This is
wonderful. I'm going to give you a magic number. You are at absolutely going to be in my class. And I
was like, Whoa, like that holds some weight. So every time I met a deaf person, I was like, I have a deaf
son.
And they were like 'Oh my God, that's awesome.' You know, come to find out.
Out of like all the deaf people, all the deaf people in the US, I guess 90% of that population have hearing
parents only 10% of deaf people have deaf parents. So out of that 90% who have hearing parents, only
10% of them learn how to sign and communicate with their kids. So most of the deaf people in the US
who do not have deaf parents are not able to communicate with their families. So that impacted the deaf
community in a way when they see I'm one of the 10% I'm one of the small people that take the time to
learn how to use sign language in order to communicate. So that's, that's pretty heavy for the deaf
community. And, you know, not saying anything bad about that, you know, 90% of hearing parents that
don't learn sign language, there could be anything that impacts them and make them not be able to learn
it, maybe they can't learn and maybe their cognition is not up to it. Maybe they have two or three jobs and
they're single parents, and they're taking care of too many kids or, you know, it could be any reason
keeping you from doing it. But a lot of parents don't learn sign language. So that was, I don't know where
I was going with that point. But I just remembered that that carried a lot of weight in the deaf community.
That's crazy. I never knew that. So how many of your family members know sign language?
Well, my immediate family, all of us, I came home and taught all of my kids sign language, everything
that I would Learn I would come home from class and then teach them what I learned and we learned
together so that they would be able to communicate with their brother. So, yeah, my oldest daughter,
who's now 32. Her first career was American Sign Language Interpreting. She ate, just having a deaf son
really changed the trajectory of our lives and, and all of his other siblings are fluent. And my current
husband is learning to. He's not quite fluent, but he's doing pretty good.
Aisha Sow
Wow, one impact and just change everything and sometimes it can be for the better.
Valerie Shirley
Yep, absolutely.
Aisha Sow
So now that you have a lot of experience in sign language and your family knows and you've been a part
of the deaf community, do you think it's changed your perspective in any way on how you handle things
in your life?
Valerie Shirley
Absolutely. Absolutely. It has changed the way I handle everything in my life.
I when I started becoming involved in the deaf community was really in about 2006 or seven. I met a
close friend of mine who I had known since I had taken my Shahada. She was really one of my teachers.
She really taught me a lot about Islam and she was a very close friend still is. She has two Deaf siblings.
And when I started learning sign language and my son became deaf. I found out that she had two Deaf
siblings. I didn't know that before. And when I found out she had a deaf brother in a deaf Sister, I was
like, Oh my god, I want to meet them. And when I met them, well, I couldn't meet one because he was in
jail. And when I met the sister, she was a really staunch Christian and she was studying to become an
ordained minister. And I was thinking to myself, how does a whole family of Muslims have this Deaf gal
who's a Christian? And I wasn't looking down on them or anything thinking anything bad, I was just like,
wow, how did this happen? Because I didn't know a lot of Muslims who had people who converted in
their family and I knew all Muslim families and everybody was Muslim.
Aisha Sow 30:30
Yeah.
Valerie Shirley 30:32
And so come to find out, they were not able to communicate with her so they were not able to teach her
Islam. So she was able to learn about Christianity because the church had interpreters. So I was like, wow,
I and she was very, she was not as connected to the family. As you know, a family member could be and I
just thought to myself, I don't want that for my son. I want him to be connected to the family. I don't want
him to feel like he needs to go away from us to be able to learn about spirituality and faith. And I just
prayed I was I just asked Allah to find me some deaf Muslims. I was like, I know there's gotta be more
Deaf Muslims somewhere in the world. And sure enough, you know, Allah connected me with so many
deaf Muslims worldwide. I met a deaf man from Ghana. First, I met a deaf lady from Somalia who lived
here. And the deaf guy from Ghana. I actually met him because a friend knew that I was looking for Deaf
Muslims. And she saw these Deaf guys get on stage at the ISNA convention. And they had interpreters
and she was like, Oh my god, I gotta send this to Valerie. And so when she sent me the video, I saw who
was on on stage with him and I knew Abraham Hooper of CAIR Minnesota and I was like I need to
contact Brother Abraham to find out who those Deaf guys are. And I got in contact with them. And man
that just changed everything. I helped them start up the organization, Global Deaf Muslim. And that led
me to starting Minnesota Deaf Muslim community here in Minnesota because I just noticed, I started with
thinking they need access to Islam, they need to be able to understand the Khutbahs, they need to be able
to understand Islamic classes, so they can understand their Deen, and they can feel connected. When I met
so many people, I just realized that there were so many other needs,
Aisha Sow 32:46
Mhmm
Valerie Shirley 32:47
you know, without the ability to communicate. They didn't even have access to like natural resources like
maybe you came here for you can't even go fill out a food stamp application because maybe you use
Arabic sign language or you don't you gesture and you lip read in Somali and so you can't communicate
with the ASL interpreters and, you know. So that's how MDMC was born really is to open up an
organization that would help the population of death, who have very limited access, they can't even access
American sign language interpreters. So that's how it kind of started and it's just changed my life because
my life is really all about that now, my life is really just, that's where my passion is now. So it's impacted
my life in every way. Like I eat, sleep, drink, dream, live, the deaf community.
Aisha Sow
So I have one teeny question, How did you incorporate Islamic terms into sign language
Valerie Shirley
So learned from honestly there are a few.
Well, there's one guy in particular who moved here from Yemen. And he knows Arabic sign language.
And so we use Arabic sign language in Arabic sign language. There was always terms for things like
Allah and Alhamdulillah and Masha Allah and all those little terms that we frequently use. SuhanAllah,
He taught me the signs for those things. And I've just incorporated those into American Sign Language.
So I use American Sign Language, but when I sign Arabic words or Islamic terms, I use the sign that I
learned from Arabic sign language its every country has its own sign language. Well, not every country I
don't think Somalia has a sign language but most countries around the world have sign language and just
like English is very different from Italian. American Sign Language is very different from Arabic sign
language and it's very different from Italian sign language and Turkish sign language. So we just use
Arabic signs and incorporate it to american sign.
Aisha Sow
So um seeing that the Muslim community here in Minnesota is so diverse. And so you'll have so many
different people and many of them some of them happen to be deaf, how are you able to efficiently
communicate with different people with different cultures?
Well, it it can be difficult sometimes. But there are some deaf here that are fluent in American Sign
Language and also fluent in Arabic sign language. So we use them to help us facilitate communication
among people who don't know about American Sign Language. And most of the people that come here
from other countries, they eventually start to learn American Sign Language and, and then they become,
you know, trilingual as they normally have like their native tongue from their country, they probably lip
read in that language. And then they sign Arabic sign language and and they start learning American Sign
Language here. But we use other deaf to facilitate communication who will know the sign language that
the deaf person uses?
Aisha Sow 36:30
So with the startup of MDMC, were there any struggles that came with it or?
Valerie Shirley 36:40
The struggles are still there. Yes, there have been so many struggles, um, it's
it's really, you know, annual sustainability is always a struggle just financially. It's a struggle keeping the
organization afloat. But internally, unfortunately, there are divisions in the community. And not
everybody in the community wants to support MDMC and, and then there was gossip that flew around
and, and then, you know, conflicts in the community and, you know, then the reputation of MDMC was
damaged and now it's trying to, you know, rebuild its reputation. And so yeah, there have been struggles
for a long time. But because I'm passionate about ensuring the success of this organization, mainly
because my son who's deaf and he's also cognitively delayed, so he's considered Deaf plus. And so with
his additional cognitive disability, that's like a double whammy for him. It's going to be very difficult for
him to Maintain gainful employment. And I want there to be an organization that will support people like
him and help people like him exceed their potential, you know, meet and exceed their true potential
because he can do so much. But because he cannot read and write, his options are very limited. So I'm
passionate about ensuring the success of this organization so that it can serve people just like my son.
Aisha Sow
So what are some programs that you guys have? Because I know the sheroes that you did for PBS, I
believe. I think you talked about something about an alternative literacy program.
Yeah, alternative literacy support is one of the biggest things that we do. Because English is a barrier for
many deaf, not just the deaf immigrants. You know, it's really difficult to learn a language that you cannot
hear.
Aisha Sow 39:06
Yeah.
Valerie Shirley 39:07
So learning English and being able to comprehend it at high levels can be really difficult. So a lotta
individuals in the deaf community will get maybe letters from Social Security or immigration or just from
anywhere, you know, the english is very high level and difficult for them to understand. So what they can
do is they can bring their paperwork to MDMC they set up an appointment for literacy support, and we
will literally read the paperwork or the application or whatever it is for them in ASL. We read it to them
inside to help them comprehend it in their own language. And if it happens to be an application or
something that they need to fill out, we will ask them the questions in sign language and They can reply
to us inside. And we will script it in English and then we stamp it saying that this forum was filled out
using literacy support from MDMC. So that's one of the things we do. And we offers driver's education
when we can, like now we're unable to like offer any services because we've, you know, it's a volunteer
board, and we just been so busy but we've offered drivers and we offered interpreters at Friday prayer.
We offer free interpreting services for deaf individuals who are not able to afford it like if they need an
interpreter for a personal reason that is not government paid. Like if a deaf person goes to the doctor the
federal government requires for the doctor to provide an interpreter or insurance to pay for that. They go
to court or something like that. They are legally, you know, required to be provided with an interpreter.
But there's a lot of situations that organizations don't have to provide them with an interpreter. Like for
example, if they go somewhere to buy a car, the people that are selling them the car don't have to provide
them with an interpreter legally. And so there's so many places. And the Deaf, like I said before, often
can't communicate with their family. So maybe there's a family reunion or family dinner and they'd really
like to chat with people so they can get a free interpreter for two hour blocks to help them access
communication. And we provide interpreting services at community events. We paid interpreting services
where organizations can hire interpreters from MDMC to give deaf access. Yeah, I think that's about
sums it up.
Aisha Sow
Isn't it hard to find interpreters through MDMC or..?
Valerie Shirley
you know it is not we actually have a pool of about 20 interpreters that we can pull from. We have offered
trainings on Muslim sides. And so we have interpreters who have knowledge of Arabic sign language and
American Sign Language, at least to the level where they can interpret for the Muslims at Muslim events.
And so it has not been hard for us to find interpreters. Back in the day when MDMC was first starting in
2013, I was really the only person but as we started to provide trainings and workshops and more people
got to know about us. More people have been willing to work with us.
Aisha Sow
So what are some future plans that the MDMC has?
Valerie Shirley
Well future plans for MDMC, I and the board had been talking about how we can turn MDMC into a self
sustaining organization that has businesses that are Deaf lit, Deaf employed and Deaf run. We know that
English is a barrier, and that for almost every job in America, you need to fill out a job application in
English you need to be able to read and write in English. We know notice that there's only one thing that
is not a barrier is becoming an entrepreneur. So we hope to train the Deaf, Deaf plus, Deaf and those who
are hard hearing on how to become entrepreneurs and business owners and we will use a variety of Deaf
employees. To run the organization with a few hearing employees who are there to facilitate in access to
English and communication with hearing people, and to provide literacy support, so we hope to open
businesses and have the deaf employ themselves.
Aisha Sow
Are you guys going to be working with any other deaf organizations here in Minnesota and maybe even
nationwide?
Valerie Shirley
We hope to we hope to we do partner now with organizations locally who serve the Deaf and Hard
community deaf and hard hearing community. So we Yeah, we partner with smaller nonprofit
organizations who are doing things similarly to us. And yeah, we plan on continuing to do that and
branching out even more.
Aisha Sow
So what are some future plans that you have for yourself?
Valerie Shirley 44:56
Well, some future plans I have to myself so I'm back in school right now I'm in Educational Leadership. I
am currently getting my special ed directors license and K 12 principal license. So I plan to probably go
into administrative, you know, into an administrator position in the public school system. And I hope to
after I get my sped director license and my principal license, I hope to go ahead and get my
Superintendent license. So maybe I will go ahead and be somebody's superintendent. We don't know
maybe St. Paul public schools hopefully.
Aisha Sow 45:41
You're gonna be busy.
Valerie Shirley
I'm going to be very busy. You know, it's either that or MDMC is going to have great success. I pray to
Allah. And then I can just manage MDMC and be the executive director of MDMC and still follow my
passion working with the deaf community, but still be able to pay the bills. That's right now MDMC is not
self sustaining.
Aisha Sow
So knowing that you have so many life experiences now at this point in your life, what is I guess maybe
it's a two part question. Um, what do you say is like keeping you up and keeping you going and what is
the one favorite moment that you've had from all the work that you've done?
Valerie Shirley
Well, what's keeping me up and keeping me going? It's definitely my kids, my family and the kids that I
work for and St. Paul public schools. Kids deserve to have the best lives they can possibly have and
knowing that I can help kids really keeps me going.
I think, a favorite moment that I have, there's so many but I just have to say a recent one, my, my deaf son
turned 18 this April. And I promised that I would take him to all the deaf adult functions that happened. It
was like he's a big boy now I'm going to take him everywhere with me and we just went to a birthday
party of one of our friends, and they had bowling and food and it was just a really a lot of fun. And my
son who is very quiet and has a lot of anxiety. I watched him navigate that room of deaf adults and go
chat with them and ask them to take selfies with him and, you know, just socializing in a way that I've
never seen him socializing before. So that's that's one of my favorite moments seeing my son as an adult
actually having people that he can communicate with people who love him and people who I trust that he
will be able to just build community with.
Valerie Shirley
Favorite for me.
Aisha Sow 48:19
Thank you so much sister Valerie for coming in here today and your story was so awesome and beautiful.
So, um, I hope the best for you in the future that you have so much success and everything that you want
to do with MDMC and anything in your personal life. Thank you so much again.
Valerie Shirley 48:39
Thank you so much.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Faruk Ahmed 0:01
This is Faruk Ahmed, Oral History student at Augsburg University. The date is December 22
2019. I'm here with..
Ahmed Nur. 0:13
Ahmed Nur.
Faruk Ahmed 0:15
and uh, yeah, we'll just get into it. So, you just mentioned your name. You want to tell us a little
bit more about yo... Show more
Faruk Ahmed 0:01
This is Faruk Ahmed, Oral History student at Augsburg University. The date is December 22
2019. I'm here with..
Ahmed Nur. 0:13
Ahmed Nur.
Faruk Ahmed 0:15
and uh, yeah, we'll just get into it. So, you just mentioned your name. You want to tell us a little
bit more about yourself?
Ahmed Nur. 0:23
Well, I'm Augsburg alum. Minneapolis native. lived here most of my life. I'm a Somali American.
Born in Somalia. Grew up most of my life in Minnesota in and around Minneapolis.
Faruk Ahmed 0:45
You're born in Somalia?
yeah exactly yeah, the capital city of Mogadishu
Mogadishu. Do you have any? Any memories? how old were you?
Ahmed Nur. 0:59
well i was in '93 so I really dont remember I left when I was around three or four years old? So I
was my earliest memories were of America.
Faruk 1:09
Okay, so 1996 three year old Ahmed, straight to Minneapolis or?
Unknown Speaker 1:15
no, by way of Green Bay, Wisconsin. I lived there for like six months, my family. My uncle and
his wife sponsored us. Me and my mom, my grandpa and other family members. live there for
six months, three years within we moved to Minneapolis as a family.
Faruk Ahmed 1:33
Do you? You were four and a half, maybe five when you were in green bay?
Ahmed Nur. 1:40
I was around like four years old.
Faruk 1:42
Do you have any memories, were you living with your uncle?
Ahmed Nur. 1:46
Yeah. Oh, we were all living with my uncle.
Faruk 1:49
Were there any other kids around your age?
Ahmed Nur. 1:50
Yeah, he had two children. Two girls one was a year older than me and one year younger than
me.
Faruk Ahmed 1:58
Okay.
Ahmed Nur. 1:59
that was it for the children. I was the only other child. actually me and my cousin came along
from my somalia and lived with them too.
Faruk 2:08
So you and your cousin. Do you have siblings that were born here?
Ahmed Nur. 2:11
Yeah All my siblings have four siblings. younger than me. I have 3 brothers and one sister.
Faruk Ahmed 2:18
Oh, what are their ages?
Ahmed Nur. 2:20
My brother Habib, he is 23. my brother Nurdin He's 19. my sister Amira is 18 and my youngest
brother Omar is 13
Faruk 2:33
you guys are pretty close to in age for the most part.
Ahmed Nur. 2:36
Yes, like, three ish years gap between everyone
and they were all born in Minneapolis?
Yep.
Faruk Ahmed 2:46
Okay. So what was you came to Minneapolis at what five ish, four?
Ahmed Nur. 2:51
Yeah.
Faruk Ahmed 2:52
Okay. What was your early life like, here?
Ahmed Nur. 2:56
early life.. just uh your typical Household nothing different. We lived in a community of a bunch
of different groups, but predominantly Somali and Hispanic people was around the
neighborhood.
Faruk Ahmed 3:18
Okay. south minneapolis?
Ahmed Nur. 3:19
Yeah, south minneapolis .
uh Yeah. So I, what was the question?
Faruk 3:27
Just your experience from when you first moved to me over the years since you're five?
Ahmed Nur. 3:31
Yeah,
Faruk Ahmed 3:32
yeah.
Ahmed Nur. 3:32
I remember having like, like going to a head start. For example. I remember having I think I had
maybe one teacher who was white, but the rest were all like either she African American,
Hispanic or Asian.
Faruk Ahmed 3:48
interesting. This is head start?
Ahmed Nur. 3:50
Yeah.
Faruk Ahmed 3:50
Okay. Where do you go to head start? Do you remember?
Ahmed Nur. 3:54
the one that was on by Martin Luther King park? That one.. uhh
Faruk Ahmed 4:01
On Nicollet.
Ahmed Nur. 4:02
Kind of by nicollet. Yeah. Yeah. Like down down 42nd
Faruk Ahmed 4:06
Like 42nd. yeah.
Faruk 4:11
interesting. So from head start to kindergarten, what was, did you just live in the same place?
Ahmed Nur. 4:22
around the neighborhood two times we lived on Pillsbury and some of the apartment complex.
One of my brothers was born there. And then we move to the Albright townhomes that's kind of
like half a block away and does more of a predominantly somali neighborhood because it's
closer to a somali mall. at least it was on the rise. Then it wasn't as much as higher
concentration as it is now.
Faruk Ahmed 4:53
Do you, so what was what was school like for you? So we kind of talked about head start, you
had a pretty diverse, Your teachers, the teachers were pretty diverse is not just the
predominantly white profession. Did that change as you went throughout school?
Ahmed Nur. 5:14
Kind of Yeah, so I went to from kindergarten I went to whittier actually. And I don't remember,
like kindergarten, like first grade teachers. But I assume they're white. But remember for 100%
my third grade teacher, she's, she's black. She's African American and she's one of my favorite
teachers when I was younger, she's the name is Miss Jenkins or something. And she's just very
nice person as this kind of stuck with me throughout the years.
Faruk Ahmed 5:48
were the other teachers Not nice?
Ahmed Nur. 5:49
no they were nice but she's different and it seemed like she cared a little bit more maybe she
could like, relate to us like students of color, maybe a little more.
Faruk Ahmed 5:58
were they a little nicer to you and to students of color or just nicer in general?
Ahmed Nur. 6:03
in general, because the whole like most of our class was like what he was a very diverse school
also is a lot of different groups of people from different people from African nations, African
American people, different people from different parts of Asia. A lot of Hispanic people, like I
said, from Central and South America so its a big, I wouldn't say melting pot, like a big just
diverse.
Faruk 6:37
Yeah, so schools are usually you know, they preach diversity, and some of them really are even
though you guys are fairly young. What was the interaction like between students?
Unknown Speaker 6:48
I remember fondly like my first like, my first best friend was Hispanic guy, and Jose. me and him
were really good friends. I remember having Like really close friends of all like to think about it I
don't think any like, actual like, white people like it was all like different groups of people are like
my friends are these my closer friends than I hung out with or play at the playground with
Faruk 7:19
you have you and Jose still in contact now?
Ahmed Nur. 7:21
No.
Faruk Ahmed 7:21
Yeah, that's cool time does that. So how about as you get older maybe towards a junior
high/upper middle school?
Ahmed Nur. 7:31
So yeah. So whittier I went there from kindergarten until like the first couple of days in fifth grade
and then I transferred to Cla Barton open school in southwest Minneapolis. Yeah. And that was
a little bit more of a culture change because is more, more affluent students and more. Not as
diverse but there was Diversity they're definitely not the teaching side is mainly white teachers is
what I noticed.
Faruk 8:11
So how did your experience with your student body and making friends and what not, did that
shift also with the new school?
Ahmed Nur. 8:21
Oh, not really. I think my experiences are a lot like from a young age like meeting a bunch of
different people allowed me to be able to connect with a lot of specific people and easily make
friends so I wasn't hard to get to know people really, really quick.
Faruk Ahmed 8:38
It sounds like you were open to the idea of befriending anyone; were the other students
receptive that they you know, did they reflect that like, hey, they're also willing to accept?
Ahmed Nur. 8:52
I say yes and no. I had like a kind of a weird experiences. I had sold my fifth grade teacher I
remember an area name was Mary Austin. And she was like a tyrant. She's like this very, like,
cool old white lady who definitely had a bias towards like African American kids and like she,
she does a lot more harsh. And like she she would grade us harder and like held us, She tried
to say she holds us to a higher standard, but it seems like there was a little bit like thinking back
now it seems like there's a little bit of prejudice on her behalf and she would favor the white
students and a lot of the people in the classroom were sensitive to this and kind of one more
stand-offish to the other students that were favored by the teacher.
Faruk Ahmed 9:52
Did you feel any of that? I know you've mentioned that in hindsight, you're able to look back and
really see things for what they were but were you able to
Ahmed Nur. 9:59
Yeah
Faruk Ahmed 10:00
feel it?
Ahmed Nur. 10:00
Definitely Yes.
Faruk Ahmed 10:01
As a student?
Ahmed Nur. 10:02
Yeah. And I feel like it caused me to not like that teacher shes probably like, one of the one like,
one teachers I most disliked thinking back to even like at that moment to people really didn't like
her I just then I didn't like her and even now thinking back I still am not a fan of her.
Faruk Ahmed 10:27
this is at the new school is a clara barton?
Ahmed Nur. 10:29
It is.
Okay. In grade, fifth grade?
fifth grade. Yeah.
Faruk Ahmed 10:33
So towards the end of your school career Have you come, Did you come across any other
teachers or like that experience anything of that sort. or was it was just smooth sailing from from
then on?
Ahmed Nur. 10:45
From there. Yeah, after fifth grade after Clara barton, I left there and I went to edina Actually, I
went to Southview middle school. And from there it was, like, even more of a culture change
because I went from like, kind of diverse classroom to like another diverse classroom. I went to
like, maybe there was like five African American people including myself, maybe five, I'll say five
to 10 in like the whole school at that when I first went there in sixth grade and and maybe like
one other somali person, so it was really different because there were, there was people I can
relate to, but most of the time I wasn't in class with them. So I'd be kind of isolated by myself.
Faruk Ahmed 11:30
This is at southview?
Ahmed Nur. 11:31
southview. Yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 11:35
Did Did you and the other students, like, at what point? Did you guys see each other or talk to
each other? This is like a lunchtime thing?
Ahmed Nur. 11:44
Yeah, it'skind of a lunchtime thing or like in passing or something like that. like one of my
friends. His name is Keondre and we had a couple of classes together. And that's about it this is
in the sixth grade.
Faruk Ahmed 12:00
There wasnt really much exposure with the little group of other black kids.
Ahmed Nur. 12:06
no
Faruk Ahmed 12:06
not with each other. So you went to, Did you finish our middle school at Southview then?
Ahmed Nur. 12:13
Yes, I went 6,7,8th and then half of eighth grade, I went to Eden Prairie High School, and then
half a ninth grade. I Eden Prairie middle school and a half a ninth grade in high school. And then
I went back to Edina, the rest of my career.
Unknown Speaker 12:33
Was there. Was there a difference between Eden Prairie Middle School/High School versus
southview?
Ahmed Nur. 12:40
I say, Yeah, because when I did transfer the Eden Prairie. There was a concentration of Somali
people and black people there too. And it seemed like they were more grouped together. So like
in the classroom, I'd have maybe like, out of 20 Kids Maybe four or five of us would be black.
And so this and I know everybody like that so it just kind of made it easier
Faruk Ahmed 13:13
was your experience with schooling any different than like academically with the shift from
southview to eden prairie?
Ahmed Nur. 13:22
southview to eden prairie not as much. I feel like this shift between me middle school to I mean
from elementary to middle school and but at a high school was fine like but I feel like there was
a gap for me in elementary to middle school.
Faruk Ahmed 13:39
Oh well let's let's go back really quick then. is the shift happened when you went from Whittier to
clara barton or?
Ahmed Nur. 13:48
ya no, from i think uhh, Clara Barton or to Edina seemed like that that year I spent at Clara
Barton. I feel like I didn't progress as much as I should have. And so I was kind of behind in, like
reading level or just anything like, like, just academically than other students who were a little bit
ahead of me.
Faruk Ahmed 14:11
What do you think, if you had to point to something as the as the cause of that, you know, it
would just be like, you know, you just didn't feel like you wanted to even try it a school that really
didn't (want you)
Ahmed Nur. 14:26
I think it's a combination of that. And our like, I wasn't taught enough more Elise in the right
ways that was conducive to proper learning. Like, for example, maybe I was more of a visual
learner and she's teaching me more auditory, if thats even a word.
Faruk Ahmed 14:47
Yeah. Yeah. I get it. Interesting. You said it kind of you kind of fell back into place then through
southview?
Ahmed Nur. 14:58
Let's see. Yeah. And then also I was in my ESL classes too because I was still learning English
kind of because I was already speaking in Somalia at home and then learning English at school
so there's a little bit of conflict of like the war is kind of going on in my head confusing. Like past
tense like different words punctuation, anything like that.
Faruk Ahmed 15:24
So what is what is life like? At home? You know your family? Are you guys moving a lot? I
mean, you you switch to schools, I guess from middle school. Are you guys moving like
geographically? your family's expanding?
Ahmed Nur. 15:42
Yeah, that is expanding. Only thing we moved a couple times. But from what I The reason why I
went from Clara Barton to Edina was because I actually lived in edina for like, six to eight
months or something. And then we move back to Minneapolis. But though that was The main
reason why I was in the edina and other than that, we just moved around Minneapolis. So it
wasn't too far, like removed from maybe like, within like, five to eight miles. So it wasn't a crazy
shift environment like that.
Faruk Ahmed 16:21
That being said, How did it, How was your social life at that point with all the movement?
Ahmed Nur. 16:27
social life for me was I always got it wrong. Like I said, with people, either around the
neighborhood or I always had friends like no different places or even sports allowed me to make
friends with other people. And I didn't always need friends to because I had siblings and I had
cousins who usually live around me so I always had people to play with or always do something
with our go riding bikes or anything like that.
Faruk Ahmed 16:52
Yeah. What kind of sports are you into?
Yeah, when I was younger, I played a lot of soccer. So I played at the club level. I played in high
school. And then as I grew older, I stopped playing soccer and I started running track and cross
country.
Did you do any of these sports in high school?
Ahmed Nur. 17:13
Oh, yeah, I did. All throughout high school.
Faruk Ahmed 17:17
Which one
Ahmed Nur. 17:17
I did, I did soccer. Like my was. So I was running. I ran track from eighth grade all the way to
my senior in high school. And then I played soccer. I was playing club, a ninth grade and then
decided to try the high school team. I think my 10th grade year. I played that for actually no, my
ninth grade year. I played that for a little bit and then I quit soccer and started running cross
country because that was another fall sport. And I just did that from 10th or 11th, like halfway
through 10th grade to the rest of my senior or this month. My high school career.
Faruk Ahmed 18:02
Did you? Did you just get into track and cross country just because it was available? Or did you
feel like it was something you'd be good at? Like what kind of drew you into that?
Ahmed Nur. 18:14
Yeah, I was kind of just been like really fast as fast as a lot of kids. So especially the soccer too,
and that is that all of us do track because I can just run short distance and use my speed. And
then as I grew older, I seemed like I was doing a lot better and like the longer Sprint's and I still
had that speed, and then so my coaches convinced me to come try little distance races, and
then I started to do really well. And then they just convinced me even more to train more. And
from there, I just stopped playing soccer and just focus more on longer distance running.
Faruk Ahmed 18:53
And this is all at edina?
Ahmed Nur. 18:54
Yeah.
Faruk Ahmed 18:57
So let's shift back to I guess, academic And socially what was high school like for you then?
Ahmed Nur. 19:04
Like any other high school, it was like very cliquey. But then again, you find your groups like, I
see I fit in a lot of groups like I rode the bus with all like all the African American kids from
Annapolis. So like, those are all my friends, I'm really close with them. But then again, I fit in
groups with like the athletes like the 60, like the running group, and then I had friends from track
who are in other sports so like, they'd be like the football group, so I'd be closer to some of those
guys. I'd be closest to the soccer players because they play soccer with them. As it's kind of like
that. Just just bouncing in like different groups of people like more of like, even like some of the
kids who were like loners example. They be kind of nice to themselves. I was friends with them,
just through the having to the classes with people and I feel like interacting with people was
really easy for me. So I made a lot of different friends allowed me to kind of go in and out
different friend groups.
Faruk Ahmed 20:08
Was there were there any hiccups in your, in your social life? Like were there, I don't know. I
mean, your experiences, I would want to say unique but it's not like the standard high school
experience. You know, people are usually like the clicking up is kind of something that breaks it
for them, their their high school experience, but you you're able to fit into a lot of different
groups.
Ahmed Nur. 20:35
I think. Like, at the moment, it didn't seem like anything was wrong, but I thinking back there's a
lot of like, different micro aggressions from people are just like people just like, I don't know, why
is this person acting this way, but then like thinking back on like, oh, maybe they just like felt
some type of way of me because I'm different. So there's, there's groups, obviously groups of
people that weren't fans of me so like I kind of stayed away from them or just or I just wasn't
fans of them or their views so I can just like let them do them and I just did me.
Faruk Ahmed 21:07
How was the the academic side of your high school experience with your with your teachers, I
should say, what was the experience like with your teachers at a predominantly white school?
Ahmed Nur. 21:17
It was honestly, like all white people. I don't think I had a single, like, African American teacher
in while I was at edina. I had a couple hispanic teachers, one Asian teacher, but like, all
teachers really cool is I like in high school never had a problem with any teachers. They're all
pretty chill. So my favorite teachers were, were white, and they're like, like, for example, one of
my teachers he was on my sociology teacher. He, like kind of got me more engaged,
academically saw like he's one of my favorite teachers.
Faruk Ahmed 22:02
You didn't? Did you feel any microaggressions? Like, you know, or stuff like that from the
teachers at any point?
Ahmed Nur. 22:13
No, not really.
Faruk Ahmed 22:15
Yeah. That's good.
So after high school, what was what were your plans? Were What were you hoping to do? What
did you end up doing?
Ahmed Nur. 22:30
Well, after high school. I wanted to go to college obviously, the big thing for me too, was trying
to still compete at a collegiate level for cross country and track and field. A lot of offers around
the country or just different schools. But that would have to have me move. And my parents
didn't want me to move out of state or move too far away. So I kind of made it harder on me.
Sad turned down a lot of really good offers, like lot of good schools that wanted me and then
kind of a like a last minute thing as I kept pushing it off kept trying to see what different schools
because I Augsburg was like I was like my safe like my last. Like I'd say like plan z or something
like it was like a last thing I could always fall back on. But then last minute, a school in
Wisconsin that was like 50 minutes away, convinced me my mom that was a good fit and it
wasn't too far away where I could come home whenever I wanted in River Falls, Wisconsin, so I
decided to go there for my college career. I only went there for a year and that transferred to
Augsburg.
Faruk Ahmed 23:47
what was that year like a year in a River Falls do we live in like you're living on campus?
Ahmed Nur. 23:53
Yeah, i lived on campus so it was cool. First time I've been able to live on my own. I was a pretty
independent person. It wasn't too bad for me. But it was not it was different from high school,
but the same because there was a whole bunch of white people there. But it was a different kind
of white people. It was more of like people from like, the country. So it was they had their own
different ideals kind of different look on things. So there's a little more were like in the cities, like
people who are prejudice would be more, be more not confront you as much. theyd just throw
around microaggressions are just like passive aggressive like Minnesotans, but here people are
a little more upfront with their prejudice.
Faruk Ahmed 24:48
did you have in an interaction with anything of that sort?
Ahmed Nur. 24:53
Yeah, couple different times. Yeah.
second hand witness?
No I definitely witnessed it first hand a couple times. I remember one occasion vividly. Me and a
bunch of my teammates. We went to really go to this party and go meet up with some other
friends. And we go to this house and it's like this house and it's like a car by the school. There's
a bunch of people outside. It's like doing whatever. And then we go in there. And they like the
owner, the house comes running says, Yeah, we can't come in. What do you mean? Like he
pointed to our white teammates? So yeah, we know then they can come in. And they're like, you
guys can't come in. i was like, "why" and we were like, they know us. Like you kind of know us
whats the point? and yeah, he said "but we don't really like people that color. And a lot of people
here will feel uncomfortable, with you guys here" and that guy put it in a nice way, just kind of
telling us like, get out of here. And so we left on another occasion, same kind of incident, but we
actually had guns pulled out on us telling us to leave.
Faruk Ahmed 26:06
So the first incident was that was with other students?
Ahmed Nur. 26:10
mhmm.
Faruk Ahmed 26:11
and the second?
Ahmed Nur. 26:12
The second is the same thing. It was like pretty much the same group of people I was with
almost, but the maybe like one of our team that one of our white teenagers with us, but the rest
of us were, two somali guys, three African American guys, and then one white guy, and they
pointed the gun at us and told us to get the fuck out of here. sorry about my language.
Faruk Ahmed 26:38
Nah its cool.
What did you guys make of the first one versus the second one?
Ahmed Nur. 26:46
The first one was like whatever I all they're like they're just hating on us like just because just
because you know, our skin tone but then like the other occasion. We just it was It's almost
surreal just because we were like that really happened because you don't really like run into that
situation every day was like you kind of just like confused with it just shock I didn't think it
actually happened. Like say like dreaming or something. I was like a figure of my immagination
like was he really holding a gun like It was like this is weird situation. Yeah
Faruk Ahmed 27:24
it's it's Yeah, I can't imagine how surreal it would be for somebody to threaten your life because
they don't like your that you're black or your skin tone. Was that one of the one of the factors of
you wanted to come back to Minneapolis or come to augsburg or go to augsburg. Was that kind
of like you're already on your way out of there.
Ahmed Nur. 27:53
Yeah, I was already kind of on my way out of there because I was dealing with that same kind of
BS on the team Because..
Faruk Ahmed 28:01
within your track team?
Ahmed Nur. 28:04
my cross country here because like it seemed like the the other only the older white guys really
were like together and they really just like excluded us because we were the more talented
younger and darker people on team and so they kind of i feel like they're they're envious of us,
yes but they also just didn't like how we did things because we're we came in we were a little
more like not me exactly like some other teammates. Everybody was confident was confident in
their abilities, but like some other teammates were a little more braggadocious they were like
more out there and vocal about their, about their abilities and how they're really the best on the
team. So they deserve more respect and a lot of other guys didnt really like that.
Faruk Ahmed 29:07
How did they respond?
Ahmed Nur. 29:09
Uh, we never really were confronted like that except, like, more like nonverbal things are like,
they talked to the coaches and the coaches would come talk to us and tell us things like second
hand. But there was one incident of like one of the captains he was his really intoxicated one
day after a race one night after he said, he was kind of like, was like venting to all of us saying
like how he does because we're we're so cocky we think we know it all. This that this and he, at
one point to one of my teammates was, was like, I think he's recently said he's like, to quote him
he was like; "my nigga why are you saying this" and the guy was like, the white guy was like
"what? did you just call me a nigger" and like he just kind of like started going off and started
using out like start using the N word towards that teammate of mine and so that's kind of like
fractured the relationship even more between like us younger guys and the older guys
Faruk Ahmed 30:27
How did your your teammate respond to the you from teammate repeating the N word at him?
Ahmed Nur. 30:37
How did he respond?
Faruk Ahmed 30:40
was there like a physical?
Ahmed Nur. 30:41
oh no there's was nothing physical is all verbal but was like yelling and then like the day after, or
if the next time you have practice when you like he apologize and everything he's like, oh, that
wasn't me, like trying to like mend, like men the fence like mend the relationship. But like once
that line is crossed, kind of like you can't really go back. You know, he, like the saying goes like,
was this like a, like a drunk person always, like speak like the truth or something like that but
Faruk Ahmed 31:12
yeah, I've heard what youre talking about. Yeah.
So the transition from UW River Falls was going to happen.
Yeah, for me for me. Yeah, because I thought I didn't really like it There just and I just wanted to
go back to Minneapolis because it's just, it is rather be at home and go to school and like, save
some money too. And I was still in contact with the coach that was at Augsburg at the time. And
he was like, Yeah, I would love to have you here. And then literally one day in the summer, he
just like, one day I was like I said, tickler falls next day everything was gone. Like in three days. I
changed schools and then like on that third day I reported for training camp and my my new
team It was like out of the blue like that
so the transition was smooth then.
Ahmed Nur. 32:12
Yeah, yeah, that's pretty sweet.
Faruk Ahmed 32:14
What was so how was your experience at augsburg.
Ahmed Nur. 32:21
Augsburg really it was really cool vibe. I really liked it because I already knew people who were
here. It was a tight knit community small is very diverse. Is has its own problems but like it
wasn't as noticeable as like other places. But I liked the team. I liked the coach a lot. The team
was cool. Campus. I liked how, where it was located. I have access to a lot of things. I can live
at home as a 10 min drive to to school. I could work, i could still goto practice and I like it was no
problem
Faruk Ahmed 33:04
well its interesting you mentioned it augsburg having its own problems like what you talked
about like athletics were you talking about just the school like your experience at the school I
mean you don't have to get too deep into if you don't want to but anything that you don't want to
but I just find it interesting that you that's one of the things that you mentioned.
Ahmed Nur. 33:24
Yeah. no, it has on problems in terms of like there's still people who have prejudice towards like
other groups of people whether it's like race our religion for or anything like that. Like I had a
teammate this this girl actually she she was a really really big conservative I she was a nice girl
like no problems at all but like she had like these very, very far right views and then she would
like Like talk about her views a lot. And like, like one of the wildest things she said to me was
he's talking about how Ronald Reagan was the best thing to ever happen to like America. And
like looking back in history, and that is definitely wrong and like, kind of a problematic statement
to say. And she like, and I was another teammate of mine to a guy, same kind of thing that was
from the south. And he also had this kind of same ideals and the, they just were more like, the
guy was more abrasive, and they were just kind of like, spew their own ideology, and just kind of
like, try to work people up sometimes. I see a few things. And people try to brush it off. And I've
confronted him a couple times and like they stop saying, like, over time. Yeah.
Faruk Ahmed 34:58
Were there any other like athletes of color. black? you know, on the team on the track team?
Ahmed Nur. 35:05
Yeah on the team. So when I first came, there's only one black as one only one African
American person on the team. I listened to cross country to it when I joined. Also, my friend also
joined who's also Somali. So the three of us. And then the track team is different because
there's more African American people on the team, but the cross country team, there's only us
three. And then as like, I went throughout my career, like every year, I'd like to still be in contact
with some of the people I used to compete against, like one of my friends ended up going to
River Falls because he thought we were going there because he wanted to be with us. And then
so he got stuck there for a year. And so he also transferred to Augsburg and as well as another,
somali guy on the team and then over time like it got more diverse because people start seeing
us there and they kind of like; we kind of pulled them in and they just came here.
Faruk Ahmed 36:16
Did your friend and then teammate who went to River Falls first and then transferred over,
Ahmed Nur. 36:22
Yeah
Faruk Ahmed 36:23
was his experience that you could you guys speak about
Ahmed Nur. 36:25
he had the same experience. Yeah.
Faruk Ahmed 36:27
yeah.
So you did you end up finishing your undergrad here at augsburg?
Ahmed Nur. 36:36
Yep, yep. Yep. Finished in 2016
Faruk Ahmed 36:40
would you share your major?
Ahmed Nur. 36:43
Oh yeah. I saw I had I got data management major with the marketing minor.
Faruk Ahmed 36:50
was, was augsburg like for you socially, academically?
Ahmed Nur. 36:57
Academically is really cool. At first. I can augsburg wanting to do secondary education and
sociology so I took as taking some social classes my first semester augsburg and met some like
really cool people, some really cool teachers. I met this one teacher His name is Lars
Christiansen is really like trendy dude who always dresses nice he like he's really cool guy
always bikes to school, like doesn't matter the weather. So he kind of like he really like kind of, I
think he embodied what Augsburg was and how like pretty inclusive of a School it is. and he
kind of preached being close with everybody like doesn't matter the ethnicity, nationality, the
religion, the gender, anything like that so its like, is cool to see that and so this was refreshing
and honestly at augsburg I don't think I had a bad teacher like as a; when I transferred to the
business side also had some great teachers to like I had one teacher John Cerrito he's well
known in the business department he's he's a really fun guy like he's very relatable and like he
really gets to know you as a person and I all my teachers like it I really liked augsburg because
it was like the class size was so small the teacher can really get to know you they can build a
relationship with the teacher so I really had relationships with my all my teachers to the point
where like I can have like that like know them like on a first name basis or I could go drop into
their office and we don't even sometimes have to talk about schoolwork we just like catch up by
anything.
Socially, same kind of thing like as I be like this still like groups of people, you know, like hang
out with each other. But like going to the lounge was it was cool big. The nice thing with his
meeting all these people and then being different groups to allowed me to meet different people,
like, PASU, the Pan Afrikan Student Union I was on I was part of it from the beginning when I
was at Augsburg, and towards the end, I was Augsburg. I was a PR officer. And then I also then
became the vice president. And so I met a lot of had relations with a lot of the students of color
at Augsburg.
Faruk Ahmed 39:36
Do you have any, if you were to give advice to in an upcoming or incoming freshman, cross
country student from let's say, edina, what would you would you share with them?
Ahmed Nur. 39:57
I probably share with the biggest things Time management, because everybody wants to come
to college, you're going to have more free time than your, the you know what to do with. So that
free time is what's going to like, make or break you academically and socially. So if you, for
example, use all your free time socially, your academics is gonna go down with you all your free
time academically, your social life might go down. So it's kind of having to find the balance. And
it's hard yet but you just have to find your your routine as a big thing. And finding a group of
people that you feel close to, or connected to. It's going to make things a lot easier because for
example, studying you know, you might start taking classes with some nice people, but getting
to know people around classes, because you're going to have to see them later on like,
especially in the same majors, you can help each other out with different homework or studying
for exams or anything. So just building those relationships is key. And keeping that in mind
trying not to burn too many bridges. Or, and yeah just be mindful of your surroundings because
you have to always be like on your 10 toes because you can actually expect anything to
happen. Whether academically socially, or just any day. you know?
Faruk Ahmed 41:37
what's next for Ahmed?
Ahmed Nur. 41:40
for me? For Ahmed? Oh, that's a good question, man. I'm trying to figure that out. Hopefully
finding the career path that I like starting our business starting a family Yeah, just the Typical
dream.
Faruk Ahmed 42:06
so I want to finish up with you kind of giving me an overview of your experience as a Muslim
growing up and coming through like you know go with your education and whatnot so from like
maybe your first maybe like you know when when you first noticed that people did not really like
you know, your your faith or do not have did not align with their beliefs and whatnot, and how
that kind of if that's something that followed you, yeah, just an overall view of your experience.
Ahmed Nur. 42:56
Thinking Back I've always got just like remarks like like people ask what I'm doing when I'm
praying especially at school I see someone sees me in a corner praying or someone sees me in
classroom praying they just just very confused. I've had the the people tapping on your shoulder
asking What are you doing?But thinking back it.. high school, no problems really with as as
being Muslim. In high school, I saw the problems more being this black. And as I grew older, it it
kind of morphed into also being Muslim was viewed wrong. Because like all of that high school,
my cross country team was very was very willing to work with me and my religion, especially
during Ramadan, um, like my coaches Allow me to practice at different times or if I come in and
like they'd have they had me come in earlier than or morning practice like when this before the
sun goes up the have some food ready for me or I have an evening practice. And right after I hit
the showers and they didn't have some food ready for me, or they had some drinks ready for me
or something. So they're very they're, they're willing to work with me. As it grew older. My
experiences changed a little bit because I was like, the people around me were mainly black
Muslims, so like Somali people, either like Ethiopian people or people like that. Like those are
the kind of people that are around me, like my, my mosque and so I never really saw a
difference until I got older and seeing the different type of I was a prejudice but like people Just
kind of like demean black Muslims leave I see like, people were from like Arab countries they
think a little more highly of themselves. I never had any instances, but I've heard from my
friends like different problems at a different mosque or just like like, like you can be praying next
to someone to be in line with someone and like you're supposed to keep a straight line like toes
are supposed to be touching like people and like some some other Muslim people would not let
a black person like foot touch their foot. And like that's a very backwards way of thinking
because this is a religion that preaches oneness and brother brotherhood, like everyone is
supposed to be in this together and have no ill will but like this was.. uh.. im kind of lost for
words.
Unknown Speaker 46:06
I see what you mean, kind of like you know no one's above no nationality no race is above the
other.
Unknown Speaker 46:11
exactly like only person who is above everybody else's god you know like mean Who are you to
belittle someone else so that's that's something I I've noticed like I said it hasn't happened to me
but like people around me have told me about situations like this and you see online like on
Twitter for example you can see these these these lands are Shiekhs talking about different
things are like people are always trying to pray for like Arab countries, for example that need aid
and like raising aid for them as Yeah, they do need aid, they do need to help. But there's also
countries where there's black Muslims that need the help too I'm not just gonna say Somalia
because I'd be bias on my end but is this black Muslims like being like enslaved in Libya for
example that's not getting any coverage people aren't worrying and people aren't bringing
awareness to it really. You see it here and there but like, you see black it being bought all over
like North Africa and in the Arab countries. And this is very sickening to see that this religion is
so beautiful, being twisted like this. And just because of the skin color, like we are all supposed
to be in this together and fearing God, but this is a sad see. But at my age right now 26 years
old, I guess I had no real problems. With like another like Muslim person for example, but you
know, if you've had you get those like, you know, on a Friday prayer, I'll be like wearing a
Khamiis or something. Like, in when I was younger I've had like, people make comments. So
like, what does that dress you're wearing? Like so some people are ignorant to that like that. But
their ignorance comes from like misinformation or just being misguided by the media or just not
knowing, you know. So I've told people that like, this is not a dress, this is like religious garb like
tell them the significance behind it. And I'd be like, I tell them to say, if someone's walking in a
kilt, would you be like Oh, nice dress, because I know you understand the, the this cultural
significance behind the kilt. So why can't you understand the cultural significance behind
Khamiis. and Um, being Minneapolis and with so many somali people Being here. I feel like
we've been targeted on multiple fronts. On one front being black actually like a moderate one for
being black and another front being Muslim, and then another front being Somali. So that's like
this three things someone who is a racist could attack me on my religion, my nationality and my
my ethnicity. And so this is this is weird. Grow like this is a weird place to grow up in especially
now that I'm older I can see like I know the people who are younger than me something to have
to go through like my siblings telling me about a school how people are, are are standing up and
actually be more vocal about their their their hate for some odd people or their hate for Some
people more than you see them. Speaking of about someone being black, for example, so you
see more hate based on that same just had a story of mine. I just lost my train of thought.
Faruk Ahmed 50:20
That's cool. We can be back here to let,
Ahmed Nur. 50:25
actually I guess I could talk about growing up to like, it's understandable like, hate coming from,
like, let's say a person who like a Caucasian person because they don't have the the right I'm so
different from them. But growing up also there was hate from African American people like black
African American people, people who are native to the US, you know, so looking at like, if you
see me and a black person, I go after mega person, we are the same person. We were the
same, like there shouldn't be any distinction between us. But growing up, especially when I was
younger, I felt like I had to fight for my blackness because people wouldn't say No, you're not.
You're not black, you know, you're you're African, there's difference. There's difference. And
reality there really isn't. Like, we all come from the same area, like we are from the same
continent. Like you, your family might have your lineage, your immediate needs might be here,
or my immediate lineage might be there. There's there's no difference but it's just I don't know
where this is the virus coming from maybe I don't know. It's, there's a term I remember. reading
about the like the crab effect. I don't know if you heard about it?
Faruk Ahmed 51:59
crabs in a bucket?
Ahmed Nur. 52:00
exactly crabs in the bucket. You know they're they're trying to breathe the air so they're pulling
people down or the crabs down around them stretch to get to the top. So I feel like that's
something that kind of happens in our community and so people are putting each other down
trying to elevate themselves when we should be elevating of each other.
Faruk Ahmed 52:23
Yeah Why do you Why do you think that is? Why do you think there's such a? You know, I've
gotta go get it I've gotta go get it and pull down whatever it is, is keeping me from it. What do
you think that kind of stems from?
Ahmed Nur. 52:37
You know, I honestly don't know. I've like tried to like rationalize this many times trying to think
through was like, What causes you know, someone to, like think like this, you know, like, this is
maybe some of the way the way they were raised or like you know, I is this is very, it's very
confusing. Maybe it's poverty maybe?
Faruk Ahmed 53:10
I, that's kind of what I kind of gear towards, like, you know, the resources in these communities
that are, you know, predominantly black, you know, with people of color, there's just such a
gross lack of; you know, that it does become a, a fight for survival. You know, you have all these
people, all these different groups of people who are all fighting to survive with with crumbs, you
know, given to them by, you know, the predominately white run society, the society that benefits
you know, not people of color. So, that's that's kind of what I've kind of geared towards the
answer, you know, I mean, but definitely I also and somali person do recall some of the The
clashing and the conflicts betweenAfricans and like migrant Africans and African Americans.
Yeah, did you this was so much more so your, your, your younger life or is that something that
continues, you know, to this day for you?
I haven't seen as much recently but like, I see it online like other people I hadn't discussions,
you know, like it and you can even dive deeper into it, not just the, the, the discussion between
being African and African American, you know, but then like, diving deep into it also like African
people are have like a some somewhat of a more of a superiority complex because, you know, I
might be from West Africa and I think that people from East Africa or less Africa than I am
because of data Like there the slave trade was more prevalent in the West than the East for
example, and you guys didn't struggle like we struggled but all together like it's you kind of
understand what im trying to say? I'm kind of I'm a little I just got stuck lost my train of thought.
But.
we could be done? what do you think?
you could take that little part its just i dont know kind of just like
that part? yeah.
Well that's all I have for you. is there anything you'd like to add?
Ahmed Nur. 55:51
nothing really you know, peace, love and positivity.
Faruk Ahmed 55:55
Alright man, I appreciate you.
Ahmed Nur. 55:56
Yeah, see you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Abby Mulcahey 0:01
Um, so what is your name?
Muna Galbayte 0:19
My name is Muna Galbayte.
Abby Mulcahey 0:38
Okay, um, tell me a little bit about where you grew up.
Muna Galbayte 0:45
I grew up in Eden Prairie, Minnesota. It's about half an hour away from Minneapolis. It's
... Show more
Abby Mulcahey 0:01
Um, so what is your name?
Muna Galbayte 0:19
My name is Muna Galbayte.
Abby Mulcahey 0:38
Okay, um, tell me a little bit about where you grew up.
Muna Galbayte 0:45
I grew up in Eden Prairie, Minnesota. It's about half an hour away from Minneapolis. It's
a pretty big suburb. It's a white majority suburb. It was a pretty nice place to grow up if
you're not Somali, but I am. So, it was... there were a lot of stereotypes that people have
about Somali people. And like growing up in a space where we weren't the majority, it
was kind of rough, but I guess I got through it by kind of just assimilating to the max.
And that was essentially my entire time there. Other than, like, the problematic bits, it's a
really nice place to grow up. Once you get to know the people and once you feel like
you're part of the community, and that's eventually when I got to when I got into high
school.
I felt a lot more accepted. And people were a lot cooler about, you know, like, "people
have a different race," you know?
Abby Mulcahey 1:09
What were some of the challenges of growing up there?
Muna Galbayte 1:12
Um, not being white was a big one and also being Muslim. And also having immigrant
parents. You know, it was
interesting that it would be a struggle growing up anywhere. So I'm not sure to call Eden
Prairie out and say it was like a bad place to live. Like, no matter where I would have
lived, I would have faced the same things because no matter how progressive you think
America is, if you fall into those categories, there's going to be a lot more scrutiny. And
there was, I felt like the entire time I was representing the entire country of Somalia, like
every... like I had to be the spokesman for an entire nation for entire like ethnic group
and that really takes a toll on your mental health... feeling like you always have to be
perfect
Or else you're the reason someone's going to be racist. You know? It's just never really a
good feeling. But yeah, being a black Muslim woman whose a daughter of immigrants is
going to be hard anywhere. I know it's hard in Eden Prairie.
Abby Mulcahey 2:18
So tell me a little bit about growing up and just your life.
Muna Galbayte 2:23
Prior to Augsburg?
Abby Mulcahey 2:25
Yeah. Or even in Augsburg. Just your life.
Muna Galbayte 2:31
Okay. Um, well, I grew up in the city of Eden Prairie, as I said before. I grew up with my
parents. I have six siblings, three older half siblings and three younger whole siblings, or
whatever, but we don't really make a difference in culture and you know a sibling's a
sibling. And so I'm the middle child, which is always a fun thing.
Um, yeah, so we grew up... lived
in the same house my entire life, or at least the entire life that I've known. I knew we
lived in Minneapolis for around two years of my life... the first two years of my life? And
then we moved to Eden Prairie.
I went to all of the Eden Prairie schools, and um growing up, it was always a struggle
between like my American identity and my Somali identity. And one of the biggest ways
that I like, saw that I guess, was in my fluency in Somali, like when I was younger, I had
freakin great Somali, you know, like, I would talk to my parents, blah blah blah. Like
they really did push English, obviously, because you know, we're in America, everyone
speaks English. I was born in America. So like, that was kind of my first language but
Somali, like... I just grew up speaking it and around third grade um
teachers just did
not like that. They did not... the school I went to, *can't make out audio*, was notorius
for
just like the way they treated students of color. We actually had this whole thing we had
to segregate... our school was very segregated. So a lot of Somali kids ended up there and
they had to change the district lines in order to fix that, and it was this huge thing and
the superintendent got let go. It was it was crazy. But yeah, there's a very anti
anything non American sentiment there. So um
I didn't end up speaking Somalia as much and we spoke English at home. So I just kind
of slowly lost it. And um
that's, that's what I see. That's like the pinnacle, kind of of my struggle between like, the
two sides of my identity, I guess. Because I'm not just American. I'm Somali American.
Whether I make that distinction, other people will so I just do it myself.
Yeah,
So that's why I'm kind of like my formative years where it was a lot of
shoving kind of like apple pie down my throat like forcing me to assimilate. And I found
that it was easier to do that. So that's kind of what I went with. And, you know, like,
when I talk about things that my family does, like the people like are just like, wow, this
is like, like, I guess we're kind of like the ideal like, it immigrant family or whatever.
Because like, you know, like, for every fourth of July weekend, we'll go camping. And we
would go to like, *can't make out audio* things and just like, like, we have gotten really
good at assimilating, just because that makes life easier. And that's what we're all about
here. I'm just trying not to make waves and it's fun, but it also... um
it's a struggle at times because... because I wanted to assimilate, I didn't really have much,
many interactions with a lot of other Somali youth which
I really regret especially during my high school years, I had almost all like all of my
friends were white, or
like, just people of color who weren't Somali, because at my high school especially it was
it was really disgusting the way that people would like, treat people who were be like...
who were me. I don't I don't know how to say it another way. Like, I have this really
clear memory of ninth grade. It was during lunch. I was sitting with this girl named
Allison Harris, and Mike something or whatever. And I just remember Allison Harris
because she was a fucking bitch, right? And so we were sitting and this group of Somalia
girls walked in and they're just like talking or whatever. And like, She's like, well, Somali
trolley or something like that. And I was like, I'm Somali, Allison. And she's like, no, like,
you're different. That was like something that I really
Like that was the big thing. But like, I'm like, other Somali people suck, but you know,
like, you're different. Like you're feeling like you're just not like those people. And it's
such an infuriating thing to hear. So we weren't friends after that. Oh, yeah. It was just I
didn't want to be friends with someone who subsequently didn't respect me or respect my
culture.
But the thing is, when I was younger, I kind of leaned into it because it just made life
easier. I was just like, okay, and I'm different or whatever. But what I've come to realize
that but I'm glad that I realized this. I'm not I'm, I'm 100%. Somali. And I'm really proud
to say that and it just, it really breaks my heart knowing, like, how many... how different
my friend who could have been how different my experience could have been, and I'm
really glad that
it's different in college. I've made a lot more Somali friends I feel like a lot. It's just it's
such a nice feeling being connected to your culture, and like
especially living in Cedar-Riverside. You know, it's like, like, I'll go down the street.
There's an African grocery mart. And like, there's so many just like, Somali restaurants
that I can eat. Yeah, I know, some of the restaurants around here are freaking amazing.
And it's just it's so nice to be surrounded by a culture that I had previously felt like that I
wasn't accepted, but it was because I wasn't allowing myself to be accepted into it. But
I've stopped caring really about what the majority of like white Americans think about
me or think about people like me, and that's really helped me out.
You know, like, I don't need to generalize, but the average Minnesotan does not have
very good feelings towards my community. And
that's just how it is, you know, it's, it's sad, but it's also something that I can't fix so I'm
not gonna go out my... like Im' not gonna keep trying
To change people who don't want to be changed, you know, like, there's no point in
trying to make, like, I like, I feel like, for so long, I was like, Okay, I have to be the
perfect person. Just so everyone knows, that there's good Somali people but like, I'm
allowed to be human, I'm allowed to do dumb things. And that isn't a reflection of my
entire community. And that's what I've come to learn. And that's just what I'm waiting
for the rest of the country to learn. There are bad people, every creed, every race every
like, everything. And it's it really sucks because the second like people like, like in high
school, like I guess, like the big thing was like, you know, like, Somali people are so
loud, Somali people are so loud, and it's like the only reason people see those differences
is because of like the really big difference in skin color. The really big difference and like,
the way we talk, like, we're just normal people, we're, you know, we're like everyone
else, but we look different. And that's the biggest that's what I've learned is that I'm not
going to keep trying to like, make up for something that I shouldn't have to feel bad
about.
You know, so yeah, that's like, that was a lot of my high school experience. It was just a
lot of us try to assimilate and then
you know,
not feeling the best after. Because, yeah, like, America's apple pie but look at look at
what cost, you know, like, my Somali is really shitty like I find it really hard still like
now to go up to Somali people and have a big conversation, you know talk to them and
it's it's something that I've been working on for a while now and I'm really glad that I
have the opportunity to be surrounded by my culture. It's it's not something I got when I
was growing up.
Abby Mulcahey 10:47
How has it been, like growing up with
Somali parents that are like immigrants like because I know like, you know yeah
Muna Galbayte 11:01
My parents immigrated here about
25 years ago. Right? And I like they had lived in Texas before and California, and then
they moved to Minnesota because, you know, I forget if it's the number one or number
two, but Minnesota has like the highest concentration of Somali people outside of
Somalia, right? And that's why they came here because they wanted to be surrounded by
that. And my parents have taught like a really good job of assimilating to American
culture, as I said before,
but it's, it's like, I noticed it in the little things. Like, for the life of the American pop
culture, I just don't get most of the references. And all of my friends will be like, oh, have
you seen this? Or like, a lot of like, the classic Disney movies like I haven't seen them just
because that wasn't like, , like, Why would my immigrant
Somali parents be like, why would that be something that we watch? Like, we're gonna
listen to some Arab music real quick, you know, everybody gets that. You know, like,
that's like, that's what we did. So like, it's like, it's stuff like that or like, I didn't know for
the longest time that most like, a lot of Americans didn't take their shoes off when they
went into their houses. So like when I'd go over to my friend's house, I'd be like, start
with tying my shoes and they'd be like what are you doing? I'm like bro I'm not gonna
track mud into your house and they're like oh that's fine. You know? Like, it's like, it's
stuff like that. It's
just like cultural differences that just show up. And
I don't know, it's, I don't really see them until I see them I guess. And then I'm like, Oh,
that's because like my parents immigrated here like they it's it's just a it's just a different
way of growing up. And it was really nice growing up. Yeah.
Abby Mulcahey 12:55
I'm curious um, what the most like racist account "thingy boppy" you've had?
Muna Galbayte 13:03
Well, yeah, well like
the first time I really had anything like say anything super racist, they yelled the N word,
hard-r at me. And I was in eighth grade and my little sister was in seventh grade. And
we were getting off the bus, right. And we were walking up to our front porch because
we were going to go inside our house. And someone who was driving past just yelled it
at us, like, absolute, like, it was the crate. And I was like, I looked at my look older
brother because he had open the door and I was like, like, did you did you just hear
that? And he was like, looking around, like, trying to like find out who said it, but they
were in their car. So like, that was the first time anyone had ever like,
been so blatantly racist that I like recognized. Oh, that's, that's pure racism. And it was...
there was no reason behind it. And the second time it was
pretty recently, actually, it was after the Trump rally here in Minnesota.
And I had gone to the protest right?
After things were like getting crazier than ever and I was walking down the street and
there was this woman in her full MAGA attire and I was feeling like an asshole. So I said
very loudly to my friend, "imagine being such a piece of shit that you wear your MAGA
attire around like it's nothing." and the woman looked at me and she called me the N
word hard-r. And then she... um, we got into like a verbal altercation. I was calling her,
like, a piece of shit.
Like, I was being really and I understand that I was like, being rude like a like I but I
didn't care because I didn't... She had no regard for literally anyone else. Like, that's like,
I don't care if you're Republican. I understand that. I'll always have like different
viewpoints with people who are more conservative, but I have absolutely no patience for
Trump supporters. Yeah, I think they're vile human beings and I will be disrespectful to
them any way I can. I'm going to be honest. I'm not somebody who gets into physical
altercations, but I will curse someone out if they are
So proud of, you know, their political decisions of the, what they believe in, I will call
them out on it. So we got into an altercation she ended up spitting on my friend
who is also like a black Muslim woman. And then she ran inside of Seven, which is kind
of not important, I guess whatever. But I like to tell people, Seven is like a gay bar
Minneapolis and the owner came out and he started saying the most racist shit I've ever
heard in my life. And there's a video of it somewhere, but he called me a towel head.
And then he um... What should we call it? Was just Yeah, he was like, look at like,
these, whatever, whatever. Like it just the most disgusting things ever. And I was like,
Oh, this is this is comedy to me. Like, look at this. Like this man thinks he's so powerful.
And so just, just there's a lot. There's a lot of racism, a lot of sexism, a lot of it was just
the intersectionality of all things vile.
And that was that was a pretty big account. And also this is just a side story but um, it's
it's something funny that I like to tell my friends, another racist thing, which I found that
about my seat last semester of my senior year, it was in this class was called intro to
social justice, right. And there's this kid who sat behind me his name is Carter Boldenow
now, it's not relevant to the story, but you know, and we were just talking and I was
like, Hey, remember in second grade, because we've gone to the same elementary school
was like, remember, we're talking about like, the little choir concert. I was like, I
remember I stood next to you Carter whenever it doesn't, it was just like a weird number
he had. And he was like, wait, that was you? And I was like, Yeah, like what's up and he
was like, You made my grandpa move to Florida. And I was like, What do you mean I
made your grandpa move to Florida? Um backstory... Carter Boldenow's family's
incredibly racist. Like, one of his cousins has a confederate flag tattooed on his
back.
And he's from Minnesota... part of the Union. So yeah, they're the most rac- like, top
top level. But Carter isn't, he's a really cool guy. And he was like, after that performance,
my grandpa was like, You know what, I'm sick of this shit. There are too many towel
heads in the state. And I was- this is my little thing. I was the towel head that broke the
camel's back. I was the reason a fully grown adult man. Like, I wasn't the only reason
but I was the last straw for him. And I was the reason that his grandpa moved to
Florida. And I only knew this like, my last semester of my senior year. Like, I was
wearing my little hijab, and he was just so upset about it.
Abby Mulcahey 17:47
Well, good thing he's out of Minnesota now.
Muna Galbayte 17:49
Yeah. It's a much better state. Yeah, I think that's a very I think it's very funny. Now
obviously, it's like they're all these like terrible things, but I find the humor in it because
like a fully grown man moved states because of a tiny towel head. Yeah.
Abby Mulcahey 18:08
Do you ever like not feel safe when you go out wearing your hijab?
Muna Galbayte 18:14
Yeah, all the time. Literally like all... Like my biggest fear is that because I'm such a loud
mouth, I'm going to say something to the wrong person and I'm going to get shot.
Because of my like, the thing is, it's not funny, but like, I think it's a little funny. Like, if
someone committed a hate crime against me, they would have so many reasons to like,
I'm black. I'm a Muslim, and I'm a woman. So like, if they tried to figure it out, it's just
that little like intersectionality you know? Um, so yeah, I it's it's really scary and like,
some time to call it a kind of an experiment saying like, oh, like how do I feel about the
hijab like, my parents never were like, I know a lot of people have a really negative
experience with wearing a hijab where their parents kind of forced it on them
but my parents were always like, you know you do you make your own choices but I
know that they would prefer if I wore it because they like, like it's a religion it's a
religious garmet and like, you know, my family's very religious so that's like, why,
but it was just like, you know what college is a time to discover yourself like let me
figure this shit out
and what I've got I just and I like my hair is usually covered anyways because I like wear
bandanas and I wear beanies so like wearing the hijab shouldn't be different but it's so
different and like the thing is, I've noticed it so much like what I'm just wearing my
beanie around like
I don't get dirty looks from strangers like I don't like it's it's so weird. Like there's all this
animosity towards me that I didn't realize until it wasn't there anymore. Like people
smile at me on the streets like like I know like obviously everyone's not a terrible person
but like my experience so far like when I wear the hijab in public
has just been so bad and I didn't even realize it. You know, it's like, I don't know. It's
crazy to me. So yeah, it's like, it's really scary. But I like... I'm still Muslim, you know,
like, I mean I'll wear it, I'll do whatever. But it's it's I don't know how to explain how just
not great it is to feel like you're constantly being like, scrutinized by everyone and
everyone is judging you, and everyone hates you for your religion. It's it's crazy to me.
Yeah, sure. Um, so during my last year of high school, I got really involved in a lot of
violence provention activism. And I ended up working for this nonprofit called protect
Minnesota, and I still work for them. I just do a little less now because college is hard.
Abby Mulcahey 20:34
I also know that you're like a big activist. And then you went to the Women's March,
right? Yeah. And then you even talked there. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?
Muna Galbayte 21:00
And I worked as well, I also worked for *Audio undectable* in action and I was on the
board for March for Our Lives Minnesota. So that was like kind of my whole shabang. I
like I barely went to high school my senior year. It was really fun though. I would give
press press conferences, I would speak at events. I would just be to make a lot it was it
was really fun. And the way that I got connected with the Women's March was like the
march for lives group chat, someone was like, hey, like, so and so I was looking for
someone to like, speak. They're like, like, we'll have like a phone interview. Just call into
this at a certain time or whatever. So I did I called and did my little interview was like a
conference call with everyone trying to get the position that I got it. So it was literally the
craziest shit ever to be like, I was like, oh, like this is like, kind of insane. And I met Ilhan
Omar there, which was like literally like the biggest flex I will ever have.
No, the bigger flex is that she's technically related to me. And she knew that from my
last name, My last name is Galbayte. And that is not a very common last name. Like it's
like.. most Muslim last names are like Mohammed, yada yada yada
So it's like, just literally Our family has that last name and she was like, Oh, Galbayte,
like she mentioned one of my uncles and I was like, Yeah, she was like, oh sick, like, I'm
related to him through like, whatever, whatever. And it was like, it was like the craziest
thing I cried right after meeting her and it was just this such like,
ah, and it was it was just a really great thing for me.
And like, I don't know activism work in general is just such a very white space. It I know
that a lot of times that people do use me as like their token minority, which I really hate.
Like my high school did that so hard so hard. Like
I yeah, but yeah, like because activism
is such a white space like, I can't help but feel like I stand out no matter what I do
especially when I'm like, what they really want you to do like when you're talking about
your personal experience this is to like kind of like bare your soul to like all these
strangers. And like sometimes I'm just like for what like, I don't know, because it.. things
that I've worked on, like last year I ended up testifying to Minnesota, whatever whatever
like some committee or like Public Safety Committee. It was
about these two bills, house file 9, house file 8. And they were regarding gun violence
prevention, lower levels of red flag law. And the other one is universal background
checks, universal background checks. And the fact that they got through that first
committee like it passed that it got through the next committee and then it died and the
third committee, like that's what I don't like about but like the activism work, it's because
I've put in so many hours, so much time into it.
Like, I always feel like we're never going to get ahead because of, you know, like, like,
the power that other people have in committees it just it, it, it's it feels so good sometimes
but sometimes I just feel so powerless of like, I'm trying so hard and it feels like nothing
is changing.
But what like the different like the different I also work I did a lot of interning for the
DFL the democratic farmer Labor Party of Minnesota, the democrats here.
And I would just work on individual campaigns or interesting like general stuff. So like,
that's that that's the kind of act like activism, I guess, that I really enjoy. Because you can
immediately see a change. I did a lot of voter engagements interning. So I would like
door knocking I'd be cold calling. I'd be like, doing whatever my boss wanted me to do
kind of and it was like 2000, the 2018 midterms. Nearly
Everyone that we were campaigning for got elected, and that felt so freakin good.
Because I had worked on those campaigns I had worked for these people, and then they
got elected. Like, that's like, the terrax. Like, like, I'm kind of like an instant gratification
kind of person. And I know that isn't how it should be like when it comes to like
activism and stuff, but like, working for campaigns is my jam. And that's like, that's like
my favorite kind of civic work. Or I don't know how to describe it that's my favorite
kind . Because I can see results after I talked to a voter and they tell me they're
considering voting for the person that I call for. That feels really good. You know, like,
it's, it's stuff like that, that I really enjoy. And I'm really happy that I got to do it. Yeah.
Abby Mulcahey 25:48
So I'm curious about like, the dating, um, in Islam and like, how people go about dating.
Muna Galbayte 25:56
Yeah, um, so dating in Islam is a little complicated.
Islam doesn't really like condone
relationships kind of like that aren't leading to marriage. Like if that isn't your goal, like
it's like considered a Haram, like Haram
directly translates to permitted but like, I don't think of it like that. It's Haram like, right?
Um, but like if you're like, like, if you're dating someone you're like, oh, like, I think I
could see myself marrying this person, then like, that's cool. We're just not a whole big
fan of the whole premarital sex thing. And then, yeah, like, it's not that complicated. It's
just a lot of relationships. Like, especially when you're really young, you're not trying to
marry them, which is why you don't see a lot of Muslim people dating when they're
younger.
Oh, I mean, you do.
But it's as long as your intentions are to eventually marry the person or like you're
seriously considering that, then it's like cool, as long as y'all don't have sex.
Abby Mulcahey 27:00
Okay.
All right, Muna. Is there anything else that you would like to add that you didn't get to
share?
Bystander 27:07
No.
Muna Galbayte 27:11
Not really.
Abby Mulcahey 27:13
Okay, thank you for letting me interview you today.
Muna Galbayte 27:19
Thank you for interviewing me.
Show less
Ollie Piotrowski
Okay,
0:00
I guess we can just start with your name and where you're born.
Safiya Balioglu 0:06
Okay, my name is Safiya Balioglu. My official name is Christine. I was born in
Germany. We're like in the southwest area of Germany Black Forest, close to the
Black Forest. So ... Show more
Ollie Piotrowski
Okay,
0:00
I guess we can just start with your name and where you're born.
Safiya Balioglu 0:06
Okay, my name is Safiya Balioglu. My official name is Christine. I was born in
Germany. We're like in the southwest area of Germany Black Forest, close to the
Black Forest. So I was born and raised there. Yeah.
Ollie Piotrowski 0:28
Yeah, I looked up some articles that you were in.
Safiya Balioglu
Okay.
0:34
Ollie Piotrowski 0:34
Um, so I read a little bit about your story, but I read that you converted to Islam
when you were about 23, I think is what the article said.
Safiya Balioglu 0:43
Yes. Yeah that's right. In Yeah.
Ollie Piotrowski 0:47
What, what encouraged you to do so?
Safiya Balioglu 0:54
Do you want the long or the short version of this story
Ollie Piotrowski 0:56
The long story, I'm all for stories.
Safiya Balioglu 1:00
What encouraged me?
Well, I'll start a little bit before because I was when I was in high school. I had
this friend who was then my best friend, and we both attended a church group. Once
a week, where youth or young youth, teenagers got together, talked about a certain
subject they picked.And some Bible verses, sing songs together, pray together and
stuff. So I saw as part of that group, I don't remember how long but I guess it was
maybe two years or something like that. And even before that, when I was younger, I
was kind of looking for some guidance, maybe?I always believed in God. And I got
myself a Bible and I started reading the Bible. My family is not religious at all.
I have two siblings. I'm the oldest one and we grew up celebrating Christmas and
Easter, but just because that's what you do when you call yourself Christian. But I
was pretty much the only one who wanted to go to church wanted to have a connection
with God over the religion. So then when I found this youth group, I thought I
found, you know, my way in life kind of, but as I continued, going to those get
togethers or meetings or whatever you want to call that, I still felt like
something was missing. I, it didn't feel whole to me. Like maybe like, it felt like
a piece missing in a puzzle. Like it felt kind of like that. And I couldn't
pinpoint what exactly it was. I, I had some trouble understanding some theological
concepts in Christianity that I asked the group about and other people or even the
pastor who did like a class when I was in high school. But the answers were not
really to my satisfaction. So I kept struggling with that. And then I I met my, now
husband, in my last year of high school, which is great, which was great, 13 at the
time, we took the same biology course. And he's from Turkey. So he's a born Muslim.
And I started being curious about, you know, I started asking him about his
religion and stuff and the traditions and he tried to answer but not to as much
detail as I wanted to know. So then, after we finished high school, we went off to
college, in separate cities, and he was roommates with two other Turkish guys where
he studied and one of them was a really dedicated practicing outgoing Muslim. So I
got in a lot of into a lot of conversation. with him, because I figured, wow, this
guy knows a lot about his religion, I should ask him. So, and the answers I got
from him were really just answering everything that I had questions about. And he
also was able to answer, like, in a way that that I was able to understand who God
was who Jesus was in Islam, and it really made sense to me. And then he explained
about the five daily prayers and that really drew me in I really felt like that
attracted me the most. So I don't know how long it took a few months, maybe or I
don't really remember. But after many, many conversations with him and going back
to, to my husband and telling him about those conversations, I told both of them
that I really wanted to become Muslim, that I really felt that this makes sense to
me. And it answered all my questions. It kind of felt like I found that missing
puzzle piece. So it all came together. So that's when I decided to, to convert to
Islam. And there was when I was 23. I was I was in college at the time.
Ollie Piotrowski 6:42
That's really dope. Sorry.
So you went, so you lived in Germany? You were born in Germany. What was it like
living as a Muslim woman in Germany?
Safiya Balioglu 6:56
That's a very good question. So once I became Muslim. I started with the daily
prayers right away. And you have to cover up before the prayers. But I didn't yet
wear the hijab outside. So once I was Muslim, that roommate of my husband that I
had all these conversations with, introduced me to some Muslim women in the
community. And the first Muslim woman he introduced me to was a Tunisian student.
And I'm still in touch with her today. So I, I kind of took it upon myself to learn
how to pray. And you're supposed to, to say the words in Arabic. You could use your
own language, but I really wanted to learn the Arabic parts of it to make it more
authentic, I guess so used to go to her to kind of memorize short passages of the
Quran to be able to pray and all the other short pieces that you see during the
prayer. And at the time I was commuting back and forth to college. It was like a
half hour train ride. So I used to memorize all these parts when I was on the train
and then go back to her and she would correct my pronunciation and stuff and helped
me understand what it meant. So that's how I started out I thought that was the
most important part of the faith one of the pillars and yeah, so I wanted to be
able to do the prayer is correctly so I did that for about a year and kept talking
to that Muslim woman about the hijab too and about the role of Muslim woman and all
that and she always told me to take my time before I put on the hijab because she
thought she, yeah, she she told me it was a big responsibility and it will be a big
change for me for my family for you know, when I go out and stuff, so she always
told me to take my time. So it took me about a year and then I thought I was ready
and I started wearing the hijab in public too, needless to say, it was a big
change. Yeah. So my family, my, especially my parents, I talked to them about
converting to Islam and everything and my dad took it pretty well. He He told me if
you know if this was what I wanted to do and how I wanted to live my life that will
be okay with him. My mom had a hard time. Especially once I started wearing the
hijab she was worried she thought my husband would take me to some remote village
in Turkey and she would never see me again. You know, those like, stereotypical
thoughts that people have about Muslims and Islam and, and my parents never met a
Muslim. They've never heard much about Islam. They were not interested in religion.
So it was all very new to them. So she had those fears in the back of her mind.
When I went out in public, in Germany, I had some very interesting experiences,
people yelling at me, industry. Go back where you are. We came from, and I'm like,
I was born and raised here. I'm from here. Where do you want me to go? Exactly. So
I, yeah, so that happened to me quite often. Also people cutting in front of me
when I stood in line at a grocery store or any other store, people talking to me in
sign language, because they assumed I don't speak German. And I always figured out
what they wanted to tell me. So I spoke back to them in German in the dialect. They
spoke and they were like, shocked to hear me talk German. So yeah, it was
interesting, funny, sometimes annoying. Some of those encounters I thought were
very rude because I'm like, I would never dare to yell at a stranger whose story I
don't know whose life I don't know whose history I don't know. And tell them to go
back where they came from. So at one point, I mean, you kind of shelter yourself
from that when you go outside. I used to like, tell myself, okay, I don't, you
know, I don't care. They can say whatever they want. But then I started to go out
with my children. I have, we have five children. They're all born in Germany. And I
used to go out with them to take them to the playground and stuff and people would
like pass by and by me and shake their heads at me. I'm like, really, you have to
do that. You don't know me. You know, I didn't do anything to you. I'm just walking
here taking my kids out and you judge me just by my looks by what I'm wearing. So
my husband and I used to take the kids out with us to restaurants, but we stopped
doing that at one point because people were just staring and they were so annoying
and and I, I stopped going out to stores with like, more than one child. So it, it
does affect your life. It did affect my life in a certain way. Which I really
thought was sad because because because I'm German, you know, and these are your
own people that kind of act like that. Only because they see me wear something
different than them. Yeah, so I had those experiences in Germany mostly negative. I
had one positive experience. I remember when I was I was sitting on a bench
somewhere by a fountain on a summer day, I think. And the lady walked by and she
told me I admire your courage wearing your, what you're wearing and your
traditional clothing and even though it's hard and whatnot, and you know, and you
might you might get different responses to, to that, but she really kind of told me
that she admired my courage. That was really yeah, I thought that was super nice of
her to say, because that was about the only positive experience that I had living
in Germany since I became Muslim, so I became Muslim in 86. And we moved here to
the US in 98. So about 12 years yeah. from, like, a positive response from a non
Muslim from a German lady, you know, all other experience I had were pretty much
negative except for Turkish immigrants that assumed that I was a traditional ad. So
they started talking Turkish to me. They were lucky because I know Turkish to some
extent, and I can, you know, talk to somebody about some everyday subjects and
stuff. So yeah, but then they were shocked to know that I'm German, actually not
Turkish. So yeah, so that was kind of my experience in Germany.
Ollie Piotrowski 15:47
You mentioned that moving to the US, what was it that really prompted that move?
Safiya Balioglu 15:55
Yeah, we, we moved pretty much because of my husband's job. So he got a job offer,
along with, I think maybe 10 or other people through Siemens. I don't know if you
know that company they do like, I think at the time they focus more on like,
fridges, freezers, dishwashers, like you know those types of things. And I think
they do medical equipment as well. So it's a well known company in Germany. So he
got an offer. He was a software engineer at the time, and he got an offer to come
to the United States. Actually, he got offered three different locations. So one
was, was it it was a New Jersey. The other One was in Tennessee, and the third one
was here in Minneapolis. So, because we've never been to the US, he told them Oh, I
would like to visit all three locations and see which one we like best and, and
they and they said, okay, you can do that. And the first one we visited was
Minneapolis. So we came here in March of 1998. Spring was already like, it was
already spring in Germany. The flowers were starting to come out and was starting
to get green. We come here beginning of March, back to the dead of winter, and I'm
like, Oh my god, where where are we? What is this? I had no idea. So we we landed,
it was snowing, all gray. Everything was worried it was freezing cold. We get to
our hotel. We had our youngest one. With us who was about one and a half at the
time, and we had a stroller with us. While we figured out pretty quickly that it
was useless to have a stroller with your, because you can use it. Yeah. So we were
here for like, I think five days. My husband check out his workplace. And we stayed
in a hotel in Plymouth. And we try to like, figure out if there were any mosques or
any Islamic community, Muslim community here, any community centers, stuff like
that. And we went out shopping, we went to restaurants. The first actually the
first encounter I had with an amazing I was at the airport. It was the guy that
gave us our rental car. So we, we meet him greet him and he's super friendly greets
me ask us how we were doing and I'm like, wait a minute. This man is super
friendly. I was not used to that at all it like, kind of took me back and I'm like,
Okay. This is good. This is a good start. And at the same time, a colleague of my
husband also was there waiting for us. And his reaction when we saw me, was totally
different from the American guy. He was kind of whoops, didn't expect that you
could tell from his facial expression that he was a little surprised to see a woman
in a job in front of him. Guess he didn't know that. My husband had a wife who was
wearing the job. So this was very interesting to see that the two different
reactions. So during our five day with visit, we went to several stores our
restaurant, everybody was so kind and welcoming. They always gave us a high chair
for our son at the restaurant. We went to department stores, they were people
always asking us if we needed help, they were talking to our son. I mean, I was
like, What is going on here? Why is everybody so friendly? And I we talked my
husband and I in the evenings when we get back to the talent we are like, this is
so different from what we are used to And also at my husband's workplace, there was
a lot of diversity. A lot of people from different countries, different
nationalities, whereas in Germany at the German company, he was the only one that
was from a different country, country. Everybody else was German, there was no
diversity. So he always felt like I don't exactly how to put it, but he was the
only one that was different in the whole company. Yeah, so he felt more welcome
here as well at his workplace because he saw, wow, there are other Muslims. There
are, there are Asians there are Americans like there's so much diversity and he
felt like he fit in better. So on the third day or so, of our visit, It was Friday,
and my husband was looking for a place to go to Friday prayers. So we checked out
the phone books and stuff and we found the Islamic center of Minnesota here in
Fridley we got here and turns out this was an Islamic school on the weekdays and on
the weekends. It was Islamic center where they had weekend school, food shelf,
different community things going on. So then they gave my husband an address of a
mosque to go to for Friday prayers, because at the time they didn't have Friday
prayers at the school. Now they do. And I stayed at the school with my son, because
I thought wow, in Islamic school, I need to like see what this is and maybe meet
some people talk to some people So that's what we did. And I think that night, we
decided that we wanted to come here. We didn't need to go to the other two
locations they gave us we said, okay, this is this is our chance to have our kids
learn different language being used in an Islamic school, learning a new culture,
and for us to and it was supposed to be for three years. And we are like, we can do
that three years is not a too long of a time and we'll go back to Germany. And so
we got back home and talked to both our parents and told them about the experience.
And yeah, they encouraged us pretty much to go for it. And we're like, yeah, we'll
come back and well, it's been 21 years. Come back? Yeah, no.
Ollie Piotrowski 24:05
What was the school like?
Safiya Balioglu 24:08
The school at the time was way smaller than it is now. Now it has an expansion
slot. It's like 400 students. Now I think back then, I don't remember how many
students It was around 100? 120, maybe. The school runs from preschool all the way
through high school. But at the time, I think they had maybe two high schoolers or
something like that, whereas now they have a full class of high schoolers graduate
every year. I don't know it was, for me, it was really nice to see like, students
in an Islamic environment with Muslim teachers learning about Islam They had all
the regular subjects that they have in other schools. But on top of that, they had
Islamic studies where they learn about the religion pretty much they had Arabic.
And then they had Quran. memorization of Quran pretty much those three extra
subjects within the regular school day. And I met some teachers, they were all
really super friendly, excited, and we just loved it. At the time, back in Germany,
we were trying to open an Islamic preschool which took us I think, three years to
get through all the official channels. They really throws rocks into our way every
time we met with officials because they were afraid of you know, fundamentalism and
whatnot. Yeah, so it's very hard to do something like that in Germany. Whereas we
found out it's very, pretty easy to like, go and start a school here. You don't
face as much as much adversity as you do in Germany. So, yeah.
Ollie Piotrowski 26:27
What did you when you first like, like, moved here? What did you do? Like did you
have a job? Did youSafiya Balioglu 26:35
Well my husband has his job so he was gone all day. Our oldest one starting in
third grade, the second oldest in second grade, and then one in kindergarten and
one in preschool and the youngest one stayed with me at home. He turned to the year
we moved here. So four kids were in school. When I was at home, I was home alone
with a little one. I didn't have a Work Permit so I couldn't work. I didn't work in
Germany either. I was I stayed at home with the kids because I thought that was
important. So first, the first months were pretty hard. Yeah, the kids were all
crying. When we took them to school in the morning, they only knew some basic
English. They didn't have any friends. Everything was new to them. And this was
like two days after we got here. school started. We got here I think August 30.
school started right after labor day. So like 10 days later or something. I thought
it was pretty It was tough.
Ollie Piotrowski 27:46
That's just being thrown in the deep end.
Safiya Balioglu 27:47
Yes. Yeah, it was. It was hard and I questioned our decision like pretty much every
night. Because seeing the kids cry and you have to leave them there. Knowing they
cry and yeah, and I was here home alone with a little one. I we have, we lived in
an apartment back in Germany, pretty much in the middle. Like in the city center. I
had a very good German neighbor that I used to meet pretty much every day. We would
walk together to preschool drop off the kids and pick them up again in the
afternoon. So I come here, sit in a big house the neighborhood is super quiet. You
don't see anybody all day except for the mailman. And on trash days you see the
garbage trucks drive by and that that's about it. I mean, people leave in the
morning for their for work and come back in the afternoon. So it's super quiet. It
was very, very unusual for me. Yeah. All I could do was take maybe walks or Take
the little one out to the playground or to the park or to the backyard. So it's
pretty boring in the beginning. I didn't have a car either. It took like, I don't
know, two or three weeks until I had a car. So I was pretty much stuck at home. But
through the school, I met some Muslim women that live in a neighborhood. And one of
them was a stay at home mom tool. She's from Morocco. So she used to take me out to
the grocery store or department store if I needed to get anything. So yeah, so
maybe once or twice a week, we did that. And after like a couple of months, maybe
our kids started getting more comfortable. They started picking up the language.
They started making friends in school. So it got it started to get a little bit
easier. Which made us as parents more comfortable today. My husband also started to
feel more comfortable at work and it takes time to pick up the language and, you
know, so then once I had a car things were easier because I could go out by myself
and but I still had to get used to, you know, finding my way around. But yeah, that
made things much easier than I was a little bit more flexible and I could go out I
felt like I could go places. Yeah.
Ollie Piotrowski 30:46
I've had a lot of people who moved to Minnesota, even just for a little bit told me
that it was really hard for them to find like friends in the community at first, or
even later on, because while everyone here is very nice they're also very closed
off. Did you have any experience with that?
Safiya Balioglu 31:06
I remember when, before we moved here that some friends of ours would tell us "Oh,
yeah, you know, Americans are very friendly. But it's not easy to make friends with
them." When I, when I came here, I very much appreciated the friendliness and the
kindness of people in the stores and everywhere restaurants, stores anywhere you
go, I mean, really, I I, I don't want to be friends with the with the cashier at
Target, or the server at a restaurant. You know, I just want them to be friendly to
me. And, and that was it. I think being part of the Muslim community made it easier
to make friends because you're already part of the community and the school really,
the school was the place where I made friends first. Yeah. I don't know how it
would have been had I not been Muslim? And would I just have come here to work or
for anything else. I mean, I can imagine that it's harder to make friends than but
being part of the Muslim community really made it easier. You know, I didn't feel
like I felt left out. And also our neighbors. Our next door neighbors. Were
American about the age of my parents. We have two adult daughters and they have
grandchildren. They really welcomed us with open arms here. I mean, I really didn't
know what to expect coming to America. I didn't know anything about Minnesota. I
have never met an American I didn't know how they would feel about having a Muslim
neighbor. From my experience in Germany, I was like, I was kind of cautious. Yeah,
maybe even reluctant to, like go to the neighbors and because I didn't know what to
expect. So when we arrived here from the airport, I think the same day, our
neighbor came over and brought us a plate of cookies to welcome us. I thought that
was like, the nicest thing in the world, I would have never expected something like
that. I mean, that was so sweet. And from that day on, we had a great relationship
with our neighbors. We still do. I mean, we go out for lunches or dinners together.
When I bake something, I bring it over. She does the same thing which when she
bakes we need we both knit so I take her to a meeting room. I mean, it Really, it
really has been amazing that there was really one other thing that made our stay
here. Much easier than I thought it would be. Yeah.
Ollie Piotrowski 34:12
I'm just happy. I'm just glad to hear this.
Safiya Balioglu 34:14
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Ollie Piotrowski 34:18
So you've done some work with the IRG? Yes. When did you start getting involved
with them?
Safiya Balioglu 34:25
Let me think. When I, when I first came here, and my kids were in Islamic school,
and I visited the school a couple of times, I noticed that the teachers needed help
there. So I started helping out in the Islamic school first when we came here, so I
kind of volunteer there. And that went on for about seven years. I mean, teachers
needed help correcting homework or research study or whatever else they could take,
so I did that. And then I learned about IRG from one of the parents in the school
who was one of the founders of IRG. And he approached me and said, you know, would
you consider becoming a speaker? We need more speakers and we have so many
presentation requests. It was founded in 2001. Right before 9/11. And after that
9/11 to present the request just poured in. But he approached me much later, don't
exactly remember when. So, I think when did I become a speaker? Maybe in 2006. I
think must I think somewhere around that time I became a speaker. So first when you
become they have a certain process that you go to become a speaker. So you have to
take a training and then you have to shadow speakers to see how yeah, how it goes
how things go and once you feel comfortable, you can present yourself by yourself.
So I started doing that really like that really like going out into the schools and
presenting and took on a lot of presentations. Felt like it was really motivating
to do so it felt like you were able to give back to the community that welcomes
you, you know in the first place. So and then in 2007 Seven or eight. They asked me
if I could become the administrator of IRG, which means I would take care of all
the requests that come in, find speakers for all the speaking engagements and do
all the administration stuff for the organization. So I did. So I took on that job
and did that was able to do this on the computer from home, which was perfect with
the kids and stuff. So I did that for about. I did that for eight years. I was the
administrator of it for eight years. And I was also a board member for I don't know
how many years and the organization grew bigger, the presentation of requests got
more and more and we expanded way more into different areas. So we needed more
speakers. We needed more staff members. It was a lot for one single person, but I
really enjoyed working for them. It was very, very satisfying work, really, I mean,
I did a lot of school presentations and a lot of presentations at community centers
with my husband together. And people who came to those presentations were so
interested. They wanted to know more about Islam and Muslims. they appreciated the
work we do. And it's this is still the case. But then my oldest son got married.
Then my oldest daughter got married, and then grandchildren are on the way. So I
cut down my work, because I started babysitting grandchildren. My daughter in law
started working part time, work, worked part time. And I figured this is I can't do
my job justice. And I am very German in this regard. I only take on a job if I know
I can do it. 100% I don't like to do something. Yeah, only halfway. So I told them,
Look, I'm I've done this for eight years, and I think it's time for me to move on.
I am in in a different place in my life now where I have grandchildren. I really
want to take care of the grandchildren and have a relationship with them. I can
only do that if I don't work anymore. So I I quit my job as admin, as
administrator, I'm still a speaker. And I still love to help out wherever I can.
But I really wanted to focus on family more than at that point. So I think that was
2015. Yeah.
Ollie Piotrowski 40:26
What was it? Like? What was the? what was a? What am I trying to say? What was it?
What was the? How are your children in Germany versus how are they in? Like that's
not how I want to phrase this. Sorry, I'm having trouble articulating myself Um,
did the environment in Minnesota help your kids like being surrounded by people
with their own religion? Did it help them more than it? Then you think it would
have if they had been?
Safiya Balioglu 41:01
Hmm. Yeah, that's interesting question. They were very young. I mean, they were
still young when we came here. And we had them in a regular preschool in Germany
and in a public school, right around right on the other side of the block of our
blog where we live. We discuss this a lot with my husband because my husband came
to Germany when he was 11 years old from Turkey. Went to a public school. There
were no Islamic schools. And he had a hard time, reconciliating between the
environment he experienced in the school and the environment he experienced at
home. His parents were born and raised in Turkey. The kept the Turkish culture
alive while they were in Germany, they were only surrounded by Turkish, other
Turkish families. They both worked and worked with Germans, but their social life
only revolved around the Turkish community. And my husband always told me that he
felt like he was between two worlds. And it was hard for him to explain to his
parents things that were going on in the school and with his friends because they
were raised in a totally different way they didn't. They didn't really understand
so Going on field trips are going, you know, doing stuff with his class and
classmates. He had a hard time to to make his parents understand that. And he
always felt like he was he always said he was sitting between two chairs. And he
always told me he didn't want that for our children. Yeah. Because he, it was very
hard for him at that age. You know, to go through something like that. So we were
always thinking, what do we do in Germany? Which, which school? Do we want to put
our children in and we had considered Walter Waldorf school. Very similar to
Montessori concept and yeah and this was actually what motivated us to start to, to
see if we can even like establish a preschool in Germany. So this is where that
came from. So then once we we were offered to come here and we found the Islamic
school. That was like the perfect solution for us because we figured, while they're
all there in an Islamic environment all day they're surrounded by other Muslim
children. They don't feel left out. They don't have to tell them Oh, I don't, I can
eat this or I can you know, it doesn't feel as restricted as it felt when they were
in Germany. Although the kid the preschool was very open. Mind we never had any
issues. And they even had me come in to present about Ramadan and the importance of
Ramadan and you know, so they were open very open in that regard. But it was, I
think it was smoother for them to be in an Islamic environment because they didn't
feel like they have this big difference between school and home. Like what we teach
them at home was pretty much in alignment with what they taught in school. And I
think it was, it's important, especially during those early years when they grow
up, to establish their identity as Muslims to really develop a strong identity of
being a Muslim and what it means to be Muslim. So that once they go out, when they
go to college or you know, whatever, that there are equipped well enough to take
that on and to not be in the situation that my husband was in that he really
didn't, didn't know what to do and he was thrown back and forth between school and
what they taught him at home. Yeah.
Ollie Piotrowski 46:24
So how how have things been recently in regards to your identity and things like
that, with everything that's been going on?
Safiya Balioglu 46:43
From I mean, speaking from my experience and my family's experience, I think we
never really even had we never really had negative experiences here. Even my
children They, we have two sons and three daughters. And all three were the
hitcher. And all three, all five actually went to the U of M. And I asked them,
especially the girls, if they had had any issues with each other on campus or, you
know, people talking to them or yelling, or any kind of negative experience, and
they said, No, they never did so. And we never did as a family really, I mean, it's
been Minnesota has been good for us so far. I know that people in the Muslim
community, especially women have had other experiences negative experience to the
extent that I to the extent of my experience back in Germany, where people would
try to rip off the hijabs or things like that or You know, yell at them or be rude
to them. But I do think that Minnesota is still a place where you can be Muslim
without being afraid of going outside with your hijab. Yeah, I think people are
still open minded. They're Minnesotans are very educated people. They're open
minded. They're kind friendly. They want to know more about Muslims in general. I
think a very small minority of Minnesotans maybe not that way, but really in
general, I, I feel like that has been our experience and I hope it stays this way
with everything going on. I also do. Yeah. But overall, I really have had, we
really have had it positive experience over the 21 years we've been here and I'm
really grateful. Very grateful for that.
Ollie Piotrowski 49:09
Thank you for doing this.
Safiya Balioglu
49:10
Yeah, you're very welcome. I'm yeah, I think I thank you for doing it.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Autumn Graleske 0:01
Okay, um, welcome. This is an oral history interview for the Muslims in Minnesota project.
Today is Thursday, December 3, and we are talking with Zamzam Mohamed. Welcome
Zamzam. December 5. It is December 5, not December 3. My bad anyways, welcome. If you
could just int... Show more
Autumn Graleske 0:01
Okay, um, welcome. This is an oral history interview for the Muslims in Minnesota project.
Today is Thursday, December 3, and we are talking with Zamzam Mohamed. Welcome
Zamzam. December 5. It is December 5, not December 3. My bad anyways, welcome. If you
could just introduce yourself, your name, age, major.
Zamzam Mohamed 0:30
Yeah, my name is Zamzam Mohamed. I'm 18 years old. I'm from Blaine. I go to Augsburg and
my major is Business Economics.
Autumn Graleske 0:41
Very, very classy.
If you could just say, just tell us your background where you're from, like your childhood.
Zamzam Mohamed 0:50
I come from a really big family. I have eight siblings. I was born in Kenya. So I'm the fourth
oldest. It was pretty nice. We lived there till 2005 and we moved here, September of 2005. And
we lived in Minnesota ever since. And then yeah.
Autumn Graleske 1:10
That's cool, where in Kenya did you live?
Zamzam Mohamed 1:13
I lived in the capital, Nairobi.
Autumn Graleske 1:18
Why did you move here?
Zamzam Mohamed 1:20
Um, so in Kenya, my dad was a teacher and we owned a little radio station. And then my dad
sold the radio station. So he was just a teacher. And he got a job here and my mom was just
finishing her schooling for becoming a teacher in Kenya. And then once she finished she got a
job here as well. So they both moved over here.
Autumn Graleske 1:44
That's cool, that's cool. Um so you went to Blaine high school? I mean that's where I know you
from.
Zamzam Mohamed 1:50
Yeah, yeah.
Autumn Graleske 1:50
Did you like always live in Blaine or
Zamzam Mohamed 1:53
no, I lived in Minneapolis at first. Then we moved to Apple Valley. And then to Rosemount and
then to Blaine.
Autumn Graleske 2:03
So you've been all over?
Zamzam Mohamed 2:04
Yeah, we have. So Rosemont was just way too far from everything. We went to a mosque in
Minneapolis that we drove to every Saturday and Sunday. It's dugsi, which is basically like
church except the muslim version. And it was just too far to drive every single day from
Rosemont. So we moved to Blaine, thinking it would be better and it was but Blaine is just
further from everything else we were used to. But now we got used to it.
Autumn Graleske 2:35
You made like a home
Zamzam Mohamed 2:37
Yeah, I like Blaine much better than Rosemount. Rosemount was very. It was just very, like,
people that weren't very nice. That's it.
Autumn Graleske 2:48
Yeah? Really?
Zamzam Mohamed 2:49
Yeah. They're like just stuck up.
Autumn Graleske 2:53
Is Rosemount like southern?
Zamzam Mohamed 2:55
Yeah, it's like Apple Valley, Eagan area.
Autumn Graleske 2:58
I feel like that's the stereotype.
Zamzam Mohamed 3:02
Yeah, it was very bad. I think I think I used to be like that one time, oh dear. Yeah, I think I said
things like... yeah. Because there everyone was just so. And here I saw more of what reality is
really like.
Autumn Graleske 3:35
Sometimes it's hard to like articulate. I get that. Did you like Blaine better?
Zamzam Mohamed 3:41
Yeah. Definitely.
Autumn Graleske 3:47
Do you remember, you moved to the US when you were five. Do you like remember anything
from Kenya?
Zamzam Mohamed 3:54
Yeah, I remember. I only remember like big things. Not really anything specifically. And I
remember just the house, we used to live in my grandma's house. It used to be our house, and
then my grandma's house was right next door. So my parents were when my dad was at work and
my mom was at school, we would all go over to my grandma's house and stay there and we just
walk there because they're literally next door and then go back home with their parents. So that
was nice. And now it's sad cuz my grandma lives in Kenya still, but she just got approved for her
visa. So she's coming now. She didn't get to come because of the... I almost swore. The travel
ban.
Autumn Graleske 4:35
Yeah
Zamzam Mohamed 4:36
because of Trump. But we finally got around that.
Autumn Graleske 4:40
That's amazing.
Zamzam Mohamed 4:41
Yeah, I know. I'm so excited it took since Trump. No, it took the last year of Obama's
presidency to get her approved and everything.
Autumn Graleske 4:52
That's a long time. And you've been back to Kenya since you moved?
Zamzam Mohamed 4:55
I just went back.
Autumn Graleske 4:58
Really?
Zamzam Mohamed 4:59
Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 4:59
How long were you there?
Zamzam Mohamed 5:00
Two months. Yeah, it was we were in Nairobi and then we went to because we wanted to stay
with family for some. And then the other half we did vacation. But it's really sad because there's
so much poverty. It's really like...the wealth...inequality. Money inequality. It's so like,
obviously,
Autumn Graleske 5:40
There's like the rich rich. And then the poor
Zamzam Mohamed 5:43
Yes, you can see it's so sad when you're going to my apartment. We were driving within the next
like little like they weren't even houses is literally just people who laid stuff out on the ground
and we're sleeping Just like made it all out of like, metal and stuff and you turn the corner and
there's like, super nice apartments. It's like, so obvious and they don't even try to hide it.
Autumn Graleske 6:21
So, you have, you said you have a big family, other siblings. Do you have like a big extended
family as well?
Zamzam Mohamed 6:28
I do. Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 6:29
And they all still in Kenya or have
Zamzam Mohamed 6:33
Now they all live in different areas. We have some Somalia, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland.
Here, Canada. California. Yeah, everywhere. Seattle. It was after it. So my parents were lucky
because they got to Kenya. But when the war broke out in Somalia, because there's a civil war,
my parents then ran to Kenya. Some of my family members weren't very lucky so they just had
to disperse to like other countries. And then they all went to countries they got asylum in. Then
they stayed in those countries
Autumn Graleske 7:15
Are those countries, countries like Denmark?
Zamzam Mohamed 7:16
Yeah
Autumn Graleske 7:17
Sweden, because that seems like, yeah. So your parents originally from Somalia?
Zamzam Mohamed 7:23
Yeah
Autumn Graleske 7:26
Gotcha, then they yeah, left after
Zamzam Mohamed 7:28
Yeah. The war and stuff happened.
Autumn Graleske 7:32
So yeah. Let's talk about more about your grandma in that process of kind of getting the visa.
Zamzam Mohamed 7:45
Yeah, it was when Obama was president. It was like, every time we did stuff there would be like
little things that would come up that we can always get our way around. And then when Trump
became President of the travel ban came in Act. And then there was that little period of time that
it wasn't an act. And during that period of time, things kept moving forward. And then once it did
actually get in place, he once I got up to the Supreme Court, I don't even remember what
happened. He added, like, a couple of countries onto the list. So then they said, Oh, it's not just
Muslims, because now it's not regarding the some countries on the list because he added North
Korea, and I believe it was Venezuela. So then, yeah, after that, since things were on pause for
such a long time. They make you do all these blood tests and like everything over again, and it's
hard because you literally have to contact every single child my grandma's ever had. And like, all
my aunts and uncles are like all over the world. They're all doing their own thing. Like it's so
difficult to read, to get all their fingerprints, like all that stuff. Again, it just too much work. But
we kept doing it and then everything got pause and they told us to stop for like a good three
months. And then just a couple of weeks ago, they told us that they finally started processing the
application again, because her health is such in such a dire situation that she needed to come here
and it's in such a dire situation because of the travel ban. If she would have came here earlier, she
would have been able to get the knee surgery that she needed. But now, she's just lived in that
condition and now it's super bad. So we don't even think she can get the knee surgery. So I don't
know. Hopefully she comes here and she doesn't want to come. So now we have to persuade her.
Autumn Graleske 9:43
She doesn't want to come here?
Zamzam Mohamed 9:44
Yeah, yeah.
Autumn Graleske 9:45
Why not?
Zamzam Mohamed 9:46
I don't know. I think my grandma, my grandma first hasn't really big pride thing. So she's like, I
don't want to go to America. She's like, why would I want to go to that trash country? To be
completely honest. That's what she says.
Autumn Graleske 9:58
Alright
Zamzam Mohamed 9:59
Fine. America we love you.
Autumn Graleske 10:05
Actually. Yeah.
Zamzam Mohamed 10:06
Yeah it's pretty crazy. So
Autumn Graleske 10:11
Well, I'm glad you got that figured out. Hopefully you convince your grandma so she can get the
help she needs. It'd be nice to see her, wouldn't it?
Zamzam Mohamed 10:22
I actually just saw her, when I went back. It was the first time I saw her since I was five.
Autumn Graleske 10:27
Really?
Zamzam Mohamed 10:28
Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 10:28
How was that?
Zamzam Mohamed 10:29
It was emotional, but it was great. I loved it. Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 10:34
I think the relationships with grandparents are always important. When you went to Kenya, for
you because of like the travel ban, were you afraid of not being able to come back necessarily?
Zamzam Mohamed 10:51
I wasn't afraid of coming back because I knew I had every right to be, I was a citizen. I had my
United States passport, so I knew if they tried to keep me from coming back. Yeah, my putting it
in. But I was scared of like, customs and stuff and when they would ask stuff like that because
they knew of when we were going there they asked us why we going when we were traveling.
And so I was just wearing because when you were traveling there we got stopped in security like
three different times.
Autumn Graleske 11:23
Really?
Zamzam Mohamed 11:24
Yeah. When we went from Minneapolis, we got stopped in TSA. They put us in like a separate
room. And we didn't even have like our luggage or anything. We just sat there and later they're
like, okay, you're good to go. And then when we went to Boston, from Boston we would go to
London and Boston they did the little thing where they check your hands for like any chemical
residue, so like bombs and stuff, and they checked like my laptop, everything my phone, my
headphones. I was like, Oh my gosh, we were just on a plane. What do you guys think I did from
the time I flew from the Minneapolis to Boston. And London, they didn't do anything for us.
Fine. And then once we got to Kenya, I was wearing, like, two sweaters and I had nothing under
other than my bra under the other sweater. And they're trying to get me to take it off to search
me. And I was like, I am literally like, wearing nothing and they and it wasn't the thing that made
me mad about it is they didn't even try to do it privately. Like in a separate room. It was in front
of every other person they were telling me to take of your clothes, and I'm like, What the hell do
I look like to you stripping in front of? Yeah, so that was the only thing that really bothered me is
just security bad things that happens to Muslims. But yeah, that's the only thing that really
Autumn Graleske 12:43
I mean, you say it so like, nonchalantly right, but listening to it. That's crazy.
Zamzam Mohamed 12:49
It's so normal. Like, the amount of stuff that happens to us every day is crazy. And like, I used to
be so naive. So no one's ever gonna say anything. And I used to be like, if someone does say
something, though, I will stand up for myself. And then it happened. And I was like, holy, like
God, when it first happened to me. I was like, What the hell? But now I'm like, it's normal. Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 13:18
That's wild. And, so you went to Kenya, how many times have you
Zamzam Mohamed 13:26
I only went that once, yeah, because of like terrorist issues. They're not really having terrorism.
There's terrorism, terrorists, what do you use. There's terrorism happening in Somalia. But some
of those terrorists are coming into Kenya, they traveled between those two countries. So Kenya
is the safest place and there's a lot of gangs too. That's the biggest other thing like when we are
there, we couldn't have like, our phones out and stuff. You couldn't be wearing jewelry like,
outwardly everything started to be like, you had to cover up your little wealth, the amount.
Autumn Graleske 14:09
So that's interesting because you said today such a, I mean, you like walk past people with
houses that are just tin and then down the street there is
Zamzam Mohamed 14:21
Yeah
Autumn Graleske 14:23
So let's talk about more like when you came to America for the first time. How was that? Like? I
mean, you were so young. Did you experience any kind of like culture shock?
Zamzam Mohamed 14:34
I did experience culture shock. I think the biggest thing was just not speaking English, was the
biggest thing for me. I remember is, it'd be like, difficult to communicate with people and say
Hello, and thank you. And people. I just, it was just difficult to understand. Basically, that's all I
really remember. And I used to think what you guys would do would be odd Like, especially like
just the way you guys dress and stuff it wasn't anything weird it just seemed odd to me, because
in Kenya we would always have to leave the house in like our little dresses with scarves on.
Yeah, it was so basic and here everyone was just wearing like whatever they wanted those jeans
you know so I was just like. But that was just for the girls, boys wore whatever the hell they want
to, because you know men are men, are allowed to do whatever yeah. So that was really the
biggest thing and the food I remember like I was sick for like the first couple of months here just
couldn't really eat anything unless my mom made like actual authentic food, but other than that I
couldn't.
Autumn Graleske 15:52
You still like mostly prefer Somali food?
Zamzam Mohamed 15:56
Oh no now, now I could eat anything. I do, Somali food is still my favorite type of food, but I
love American.
Autumn Graleske 16:09
And like, I feel, like I have never been to Kenya.
Zamzam Mohamed 16:13
Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 16:14
Like the weather is it was it difficult?
Zamzam Mohamed 16:19
Yeah, it's not it's really it's really nice. It's very like, mellow I think. I think the Mombasa which
is like the northern part, north eastern part of Kenya, where it's had like the beaches and stuff.
That place is really humid. It hits like hundred and stuff, but other than that, it feels like spring in
Minnesota. Little bit hotter. It's really nice.
Autumn Graleske 16:45
And then Minnesota is like, bipolar.
Zamzam Mohamed 16:47
Yeah, I know. It's so bad. But I went to Kenya, towards the end of the summer beginning not
towards the end of spring, beginning of summer. So Maybe, it's a little bit hotter there.
Autumn Graleske 17:08
And like, just growing up in Minnesota. How is that? Is this, this is normal to you?
Zamzam Mohamed 17:19
I think. I think it was really easy for me at first just because I was really naive to it. I think I just
didn't care. I speak whatever the hell like you can say whatever he wants me, I don't care. But I
think over the years I started to really notice and then it started to bother me. And I think it really
hit freshman, not freshman year, yeah freshman year when I started high school, is when I
started to notice because that's one of the biggest like, event happened, like ever where I was
attacked for being Muslim, but ever since then.
Autumn Graleske 17:57
If you don't mind me asking me, what happened?
Zamzam Mohamed 18:00
Sorry, I meant, I felt like that sounded so bad. But I think I feel like I've told you, but I don't
know.
Autumn Graleske 18:08
You might've
Zamzam Mohamed 18:09
But freshman year when I was on the debate team. On High School, there's this dumb game that
we play called agario. You know that game?
Autumn Graleske 18:17
It sounds familiar
Zamzam Mohamed 18:18
It's like the little balls and you get bigger. Yeah. So the entire team was playing that together.
And this guy on the debate, made it his ball thing you mentioned, he named it the N word with
the ER. And I noticed and I was like, What the hell and I made a big deal about it. And then we
kept arguing about and I don't remember how, but somehow Islam got brought into it. And then
he started talking about the Qur'an and how we were infidels, and how we are going to hell, and
he's super Christian. His mom is I think a state representative or a state senator, really? I don't
want to say the name.
Autumn Graleske 18:56
Yeah, after this I'm gonna ask.
Zamzam Mohamed 18:59
Can you believe And you know, he was saying the entire time he was like, how do you know
about this? He's like, I know about all this because my mom is she goes to dinners with Somalis
who say that? Yeah, like he literally, I know, isn't that and then so basically, why would you go
with the story but he did that and he made a huge deal. And Islam got brought into it and he told
us we were infidels and stuff. And then he told, he muttered under his breath. I'm gonna kill you.
And I was like, What did you say? And he didn't repeat it. And then my sisters and them all got
up and they all came around, because they saw him starting to like he said, yeah, it started to get
pretty violent at this point. He stood up. And yeah, there was another debate guy was sitting on
the other side of me. And he tried to get in between us because the guy was trying to hit me
because I kept arguing with him and he kept getting in between us. He tried to grab a chair to
throw it at me. He tried to throw a chair at me, at Blaine high school. This guy had the audacity
to grab a chair And throw it up and then eventually walk out and do remember, like how the
LARC and the stairs there's, you know that hallway and walk out out of a little computer lab in
the LARC. And he's pacing in the hallway. And then he comes back in and we're all like what
you say? And he was like, I'm going to kill you. And we were like, what'd you say? And he said
it again. And then he walked out and then we ran upstairs to Mrs. Munsch.
Autumn Graleske 20:28
Yeah. I think I think you're fine.
Zamzam Mohamed 20:31
Okay, Yeah. We went upstairs to her and then we told her what happened. And then yeah, it was
just really bad. And then they told us, Can you believe he had a one day suspension? It was one
day and a half because they suspended him fourth and fifth hour. And then the day after the
entire day after. And the school handbook said minimum days for some spin for, oh my gosh, I
cannot talk. Minimum days suspension for a death threat is five days or immediate expulsion.
And he got a day and a half and then when we made a big deal about it to the school. They're
like, they kept saying that, oh, it has to be a learning experience. It has to be learning experience.
And then they told us, they call down other witnesses that we gave them. And then later when I
spoke to all the witnesses, they said they never got called on. When I mentioned that to the
school again, they said, Oh, we actually believe what you guys told us. So we never felt the need
to call down. But then why did you feel the need to lie about it? Yeah, yeah. And then they told
us he'd never be able to be allowed on the debate team again. And then my sophomore year of
debate. Guess who's back on the team.
Autumn Graleske 21:41
That's pretty huge. I had no idea.
Zamzam Mohamed 21:43
Yeah. So I guess I never told you and then he, like later, he always just said stuff. We have a
book of all the shit he used to say, he used to say like, not every terrorist is Muslim, but all
Muslims are terrorists. Yeah, you know. You know, I think you know who she is. She was his
debate partner, and she used to ride the bus with him. And every day on the bus, she kept the
composition notebook to write down every bad thing he's ever said and she filled it up and the
school just still did nothing about it.
Autumn Graleske 22:16
That's...
Zamzam Mohamed 22:17
I know
Autumn Graleske 22:17
I mean, it is Blaine high school.
Zamzam Mohamed 22:19
Yeah, exactly. What do you expect from them? It's a shitty school.
Autumn Graleske 22:26
Like he literally made terroristic threats?
Zamzam Mohamed 22:28
Yeah. He was like, when he was asked about it. He said, I never say I'm going to kill you guys.
All I said is you guys are going to die. Yeah, they're like, if he said you guys are gonna die. It's
not really a death threat, because everyone is gonna die.
Autumn Graleske 22:47
Okay but still, with the context.
Zamzam Mohamed 22:50
Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 22:52
That happened freshman year?
Zamzam Mohamed 22:53
Yep, freshman year and then his older brother is... they're just a very entitled family. The teacher
I mentioned earlier, she teaches, she had his older brother in his class, in her class, and the first
day of school. It's her AP US history class the first day of her class. He raised his hand and he's
like, I want you to know, my mom is in a state Congress. So you might as well just give me an A
in the classroom. I know. And my sister was the TA for the class, my older sister, and he ended
up failing at the end, so... very funny, the way things worked out.
Autumn Graleske 23:34
Well, so that you said that kind of changed your outlook.
Zamzam Mohamed 23:38
Yeah, because, it was like, so harsh. Like, holy crap, I didn't expect that to happen. And I think I
don't remember when Trump election happened, was that our freshman year or sophomore year?
Autumn Graleske 23:50
I believe.
Zamzam Mohamed 23:52
It was our sophomore.
Autumn Graleske 23:53
Yeah, they were running our freshman year. Yeah. And then the actual election happened
Zamzam Mohamed 23:58
Sophomore Yeah, I remember that. That was like the biggest thing, because they happen around
the same time because he, Donald Trump won the election. November of our freshman year,
right. If I remember correctly.
Autumn Graleske 24:16
I think...
Zamzam Mohamed 24:19
and then he was in office 2016
Autumn Graleske 24:23
No, I think he won 2016 November of our freshman year, because...
Zamzam Mohamed 24:29
He won november of our freshman year?
Autumn Graleske 24:31
He won November of our Sophomore year, but they were like running, I think. Oh, I'm pretty
sure he came into office our sophomore year.
Zamzam Mohamed 24:44
Okay, but yeah, but anyway, yeah. The election happened to I think everyone like all the
Muslims in the school felt super uneasy, and not even Muslims. Everyone felt easy because he
first attacked so many different races, so many different religions, beliefs, So many different
things that it was just so uncomfortable at school. I just think everything went downhill after
Grant. Yeah. I said his name so you might want to
Autumn Graleske 25:15
Oh okay.
Zamzam Mohamed 25:17
I didn't finish saying it but after that incident.
Autumn Graleske 25:22
So did you. You saw like Muslims in the school they kind of did, throughout, I mean he was
obviously President then for the rest of our high school years. Do you think that there was kind
of a culture change? Did you feel it? Oh wait, you did PSEO didn't you?
Zamzam Mohamed 25:38
Yeah, but that's what I was gonna say is, like sophomore year, I think everyone just hated going
high school because not only me, there's been other incidents that have happened that the
administration has literally never done anything right, done anything about, so everyone literally
did PSEO because of how much they hated Blaine high school. To be honest, like a lot of my
friends didn't do PSEO because they wanted to, although it was a great experience, and we all
loved it. It wasn't because they wanted to do PSEO, it was I have to get the hell out of Blaine
high school, and the only way I can do it is through PSEO.
Autumn Graleske 26:13
Yeah, because I I just remember sophomore year. And then junior year. I never saw you. Or
Sarah. Yeah. Or you know, Ranad, Yeah I never saw you guys.
Zamzam Mohamed 26:25
Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 26:27
Wow. So, that freshman year incident, that was the biggest thing. Have you ever had anything
else ever happened?
Zamzam Mohamed 26:36
Well, this didn't really happen to me. It happened more to other people. I was, it was last year but
they basically had this little thing that said, ask me about Islam and said like Muslims, Islam, had
things about the prophets on it, stuff like that. And the school told them you can't have that up
because of promotion of religion. And then They had to take it down and they just had to. And
then they took pictures around the school about like the FCA fellow Christian Athletes, whatever
that thing is, they took pictures of that and they're like is this promotion of religion because it
says Christian and then there's flyers around the school that's a Bible study as well. And Bible
implies Christianity so that's promotion of religion as well. So the school denied it all they're like
that's not promotion of religion if you guys want you can do this, this this this this and what you
put it up and then they refused and then I got super mad and I was like, What the hell this isn't
right. And the school knows it's not right. And I talked to them about it and they're basically you
know, they told me they said you're not even a student here, so don't even concern yourself. They
basically, yeah, like what the hell do you mean I'm not a student? Yeah. And I was like, just
because I do PSEO doesn't mean I'm going to let you guys do all this crap that you think is right
and let you guys get away with it because it's not right. And then they, we had meetings planned.
And then I had to cancel one of the meetings because Something came up. And then, like every
other time, he kept pushing it, the principal, kept pushing it. He's like, oh, sorry, I was on
vacation. I just came back. I had meetings, those are these. I'm like any of those meetings on
your schedule is just as important as a meeting I'm having with you. So figure something out,
because I'm meeting with and then in the end, never ended up meeting. But the district ended up
getting involved and the district was like, Oh, actually, you guys are fine to do the poster you
wanted to do initially, there was nothing wrong with it. So you can do it now. But they're like,
we already had the effing event. So there's no use for that poster now. They're like, sorry, but
next year, you could. Yeah, it's not. I know. So. I mean, the audacity to think they were right the
entire time and to speak to me that way. And then eventually the district has to get in and say,
Oh, it's okay. You guys could have done it pisses me off, so
Autumn Graleske 28:57
That's not even like a promotion of religion.
Zamzam Mohamed 28:59
I know, it literally just says ask me a question about Islam like if you really hate it, is it that hard
to just go woop and keep walking
Autumn Graleske 29:05
Exactly and like it's just meant to educate more people, like it's a school, you don't want to
educate?
Zamzam Mohamed 29:12
That's what it is
Autumn Graleske 29:16
I noticed I mean, you guys kept pushing for it and you didn't just like take a you know, you
weren't just like, Okay. That kind of perseverance, I mean, you were ready to fight for this?
Zamzam Mohamed 29:30
Yeah, yeah, I don't, it just bothers me now before I like I never used to care for not politics or
yeah politics and civil rights any of that stuff. I never really cared for that stuff. I always thought
I wanted to become a doctor and I was I ever cared about until the Grant thing happened. And
then I was like, I have to come after you trash people like so that's what I decided like, yeah, this
is what I'm going to do. So that's, yeah, this is in economics, but I want to go into law school
after
Autumn Graleske 30:01
Okay, I see you.
Zamzam Mohamed 30:03
Yeah, but we'll see. So yeah, that really just made me want to do this stuff.
Autumn Graleske 30:12
It's like, people don't really pay attention to politics. Yeah, unless it actually touches their lives.
Zamzam Mohamed 30:19
Yeah. That pisses me off when people say oh yeah, I don't care for politics. I'm like shut the hell
up. Like you're only saying that because you have the privilege of not caring for politics. If you,
if someone said, Oh, if you're white, we're going to take away your iPhone, you would get pissed
Autumn Graleske 30:19
and then they'd be all into politics
Zamzam Mohamed 30:27
Yeah, they'd be like let's go rally right now
Autumn Graleske 30:43
Yeah, alright, I mean I had no idea. I mean talking I talked to a lot of people about high school
and my experience is very different than everybody else's. But yeah, very different. But one
thing we do have a common was lacrosse.
Zamzam Mohamed 31:13
Yup.
Autumn Graleske 31:15
I feel like, well it's not about me. How did you, like why did you join the lacrosse?
Zamzam Mohamed 31:22
My older sister did it
Autumn Graleske 31:23
Yeah?
Zamzam Mohamed 31:23
Yeah, and that's why I did it and I always wanted to do a sport. Volleyball I never liked,
basketball was just eh, soccer nope. Lacrosse seemed like the right fit for me. So I did it.
Autumn Graleske 31:38
You played for your freshman year?
Zamzam Mohamed 31:41
I did freshman, sophomore, a little bit junior, never senior.
Autumn Graleske 31:46
And you enjoyed it?
Zamzam Mohamed 31:47
Yeah, senior I only came, senior year you were varsity goalie, right?
Yeah, I just came to watch your games. And I coached with Haley. Just because I love Haley.
Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 32:02
Okay
Zamzam Mohamed 32:03
Yeah, so it's fun.
Autumn Graleske 32:06
I loved freshman year B-squad with you guys
Zamzam Mohamed 32:10
It was so I just across just because it was entertaining and fun, and it was just a way to stay fit
without actually thinking because I don't really care about like, physical, other than just staying
healthy. Yeah, so it was my way of staying healthy without doing anything.
Autumn Graleske 32:29
I can't remember. It was one of those freshman, freshman or sophomore year, but Ramadan fell
within the lacrosse season. How? How was that?
Zamzam Mohamed 32:42
Horrible. I remember, it was just so bad. There's like, it's just super hot and then you're running
and you're exhausted. And I remember it was towards the end of finals week for us, because we
finish the school year earlier than Blaine high school does. So we had finals and Ramadan and
lacrosse, so we like study, Oh hey it's time to go out. It was horrible and I remember Junior year
I had like a hardest biology class with a friend. So we were both like thinking out on biology
while we were playing lacrosse and you're starving as well. But it was also nice because I think
we got closer, the Muslims on the team at least got closer because we would hang out after and
get Iftar together, it's when you break your fast. So that was nice, but.
Autumn Graleske 33:30
You get closer if you battle adversity together.
Zamzam Mohamed 33:34
Yeah, pain.
Autumn Graleske 33:37
I mean, could you have like, I suppose didn't have to necessarily practice or
Zamzam Mohamed 33:44
Yeah it's, in Islam it is mandatory to fast Ramadan if you can fast it. If like, I think under the
right circumstances you wouldn't be allowed to, for, if you really cared about lacrosse that much.
I think it's all personal. If you cared about the process, which I do that important to perform your
best at that game, then there'd be nothing wrong with you not fasting that day and just making it
up later. That's all you have to do. So, if you miss a day, you just have to make it up, but you just
have to be sure you're missing it for the right reasons. So there'd be a couple of games that I
really want to play really well so she wouldn't fast that just because you know, I mean, so it's just
your personal but you have to make sure you're still being dutiful. I don't know what'd you say?
To your religion
Autumn Graleske 33:53
I think that works, I think devout is too extreme.
Zamzam Mohamed 34:42
Yeah. Because it's not. Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 34:45
Yeah. I get what you're saying
Zamzam Mohamed 34:46
Yeah, to your religion but also
Autumn Graleske 34:48
Gotcha, well lacrosse was, I was always like, I felt, I don't know if bad is the right word, but I
was like damn, you guys are strong as hell. And then sophomore year we had gym class together.
Zamzam Mohamed 35:12
Yes, and we were weight partners. That was so fun.
Autumn Graleske 35:18
The best
Zamzam Mohamed 35:19
You were like my favorite person ever. You were like one of the very few people I can get along
with. There's very few people I can get along with.
Autumn Graleske 35:25
Yeah, we had the best conversations.
Zamzam Mohamed 35:25
Yeah, it's really weird. I don't know. I think like just the person I'm friends with has to really get
me and not even get me well, I just have to be able to have a normal conversation with you. And
I feel like I can't do that more.
Autumn Graleske 35:25
Really?
Zamzam Mohamed 35:43
I love your hair clips by the way, sorry I
Autumn Graleske 35:46
Thank you, Um,
I think we were playing tennis one time. We just had like an entire conversation while we're
playing, playing tennis about um, I don't know I was just asking you questions about Islam
Zamzam Mohamed 35:59
Yeah, I like where we can have like just normal conversations during the normal stuff. Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 36:05
I mean, I don't know if we really played tennis
Zamzam Mohamed 36:08
We did whatever we wanted, who was our gym teacher? Lachinski? She loved us.
Autumn Graleske 36:13
Yeah. So overall, how would you rate your high school experience.
Zamzam Mohamed 36:21
Zero, I hated high school. Well, the Blaine High School portion, freshman and sophomore. The
junior and senior year were great. Freshman and sophomore year I hated it. Gosh, I wish Blaine
High School would thrive into much beautiful. A prettier school. Better people, better
administration.
Autumn Graleske 36:45
Well now you're here and I totally didn't know you were here. I'm so glad you are because
honestly I missed you.
Zamzam Mohamed 36:51
I missed you too, I miss like, I just think High School is great because there's just so many
people that I just had such nice friendships that then I lost all that when school started and
everyone like moved. A bunch of people who go out of state. I thought sorry. I thought you were
going to go out of state for school?
Autumn Graleske 37:16
Honestly, I couldn't.
Zamzam Mohamed 37:17
Oh okay.
Autumn Graleske 37:20
Why did you choose Augsburg?
Zamzam Mohamed 37:23
Um, it was between Augsburg and the U. And I just wanted a smaller school. But I'm
transferring next year. Yeah, just because for what I want to do for law school, first Augsburg
doesn't have a law school. So Hamlin and the U both have law schools. So either one of those,
probably the U because it has a better law school.
Autumn Graleske 37:47
You want to go to law school, what do you want to do? Like?
Zamzam Mohamed 37:51
I don't know. So I work at Best Buy right now. And I have an internship there for the summer
just for like a business internship. But once I start law, they have an internship. I could do there
too. But I'm really stuck on whether I'm going to do corporate law or civil rights law on the side
or the right side of corporate. So I don't know because corporate law really brings ingood money,
but it's really dirty. Yeah. I mean, it's a dirty business, but as long as no human rights laws are
violated.
Autumn Graleske 38:32
As a lawyer, I guess that's what you can do.
Zamzam Mohamed 38:35
Yes.
Autumn Graleske 38:36
Try your best to make sure
Zamzam Mohamed 38:37
Yeah. And I think that's been most importantly is I have morals that are keeping me from
wanting to do corporate law just because I know how bad things can get in corporate law with
the things that happen. Or... and I've done like CAIR and stuff, internships for them, but it's just a
very you know, I mean, I always want to be in an area that, I just want to work somewhere fast
pace. You're doing stuff all the time and feel like that's a corporate environment. Civil rights is
just
Autumn Graleske 39:12
I guess it depends
Zamzam Mohamed 39:13
Take it as it comes
Autumn Graleske 39:14
Yeah, you can't really... something happens. You can control it.
Zamzam Mohamed 39:20
Yeah. And you only get paid based off of your clients and I feel like if you're doing civil rights
or, yeah if you're doing civil rights you're not going to have that many clients because you're
working with low income. Yes. So I think probably what I would do is corporate law and then do
pro bono civil rights.
Autumn Graleske 39:25
You want to make bank, yeah, also make an impact.
Zamzam Mohamed 39:50
Yeah. And I think the way I don't even think the people who need good lawyers can afford them.
And I'm going to be a great one. So yeah, because they all get like public defenders who are like
working for the state, that get paid nothing, who don't really care about the cases they're working.
So yeah.
Autumn Graleske 40:18
I think you'd make a great lawyer.
Zamzam Mohamed 40:20
Thank you. I really hope I do. We'll see. Debate Team set me up. I love debate.
Autumn Graleske 40:32
I don't know if, Honestly, I don't know, does Augsburg have like a debate?
Zamzam Mohamed 40:36
Yeah they do.
Autumn Graleske 40:37
I know the U has a ton. I'm pretty sure I saw a sign for debate. So are you interested in going
back into that?
Zamzam Mohamed 40:45
I don't think I wanted to do university debate. I would love to do mock trial, ugh, if I found a
school that had a mock trial. I would jump on it because in high school I did it. I took a debate
with Mr. Connors if you know him, and then I took it with him for two years because he had the
debate one and honors debate. And I freaking love that class and the second trimester we did
mock trial. So, I don't know. We'll see. So I want to go to law school out of state, hopefully. And
if I do, Howard, is where I want to go and they have a mock trial team. Yeah, or Harvard, but Ivy
League is dirty business. don't like them. All universities are dirty in some way, but Ivy leagues
are getting really dirty.
Autumn Graleske 41:41
Alright
Zamzam Mohamed 41:43
Big goals, we'll see how it goes. Yeah, everything under anything undergrad. I don't really care
for, but grad school I want to go somehwere big.
Autumn Graleske 41:53
Yeah, you got big, big goals.
Zamzam Mohamed 41:56
Yep, sadly, but I think It's better because law school I have a lot of time. It's like professions like
these, you have a lot of times to work up to those goals eventually, you know. So eventually I'll
get to an Ivy league, eventually you'll see my name at an Ivy league.
Autumn Graleske 42:16
I expect it
Zamzam Mohamed 42:17
Thank you. You better expect it. If you don't I'll be disappointed.
I'm really loving this pen, kind of entertaining. I might have to keep it.
Autumn Graleske 42:32
You might have to keep it? Well is there, I mean, I think we got some good stuff
Zamzam Mohamed 42:40
Yeah that was awhile
Autumn Graleske 42:42
Do you have anything else that you'd like to talk about? Or I mean?
Zamzam Mohamed 42:51
No, I'm just gonna say if you haven't registered to vote, register to vote!
Autumn Graleske 42:58
Well, thank you Zamzam
Zamzam Mohamed 42:59
Yeah, thank you
Bye, guys.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Amina Pezerovic 0:00
Today is Sunday, April 17 2022. I'm Amina Pezerovic, from Augsburg
University in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I'm here doing an oral history
interview with Muamer Pezerovic in Maple Grove Minnesota. This interview
is for the Muslims in Minnesota project. When were you born a... Show more
Amina Pezerovic 0:00
Today is Sunday, April 17 2022. I'm Amina Pezerovic, from Augsburg
University in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I'm here doing an oral history
interview with Muamer Pezerovic in Maple Grove Minnesota. This interview
is for the Muslims in Minnesota project. When were you born and what do
you remember from your childhood?
Muamer Pezerovic 0:24
I was born on May 17 1973. And from my childhood I have only the best
memories that I can have and wish anybody to have a childhood like I did
what can I say you know the growing up you know it was just without
worries everything was provided by my family you know they had lots of
friends and like I said I didn't we didn't have any worries growing up
you know we were just enjoying it like supposed to be for every kid in
the world.
Amina Pezerovic 1:08
what was it like growing up in Bosnia
Muamer Pezerovic 1:11
growing up in Bosnia well it was like I said my childhood was really nice
you know and growing up as a teenager I had lots of friends lots of
cousins you know people on a usual basis you know that we besides the
school and everything you know, we grow up close to the lake and we enjoy
the summers doing so many things you know because that that age you know,
he was main thing to find something you know to practice as a football,
basketball sports sailing sports you know, the we had so many
opportunities to do over there and that's what we spend our time you know
growing up with a friends and like I said going through cafes restaurants
you know, the Bosnia that time was Pro- Western country you know that
everything that you could listen any kind of music in United States you
could listen automatically in Bosnia at that time and there was no
prohibition or whatever you know, it was one wonderful life you know that
you can imagine you know, I didn't I didn't remember anything anything
wrong at that time you know, that's what was going on you know? What
should I say everything lasted you know, till the war started in Bosnia
but like that you know, that was my memories that everybody enjoyed it
Amina Pezerovic 3:05
was your family very religious what religious experiences do you remember
having when you were young
Muamer Pezerovic 3:12
Yes, my family especially my mom she was very religious and even today
you know growing up you know, everybody from our part of the town you
know, that where we used to live was going to beside the regular school,
we were going to school next to the mosque, you know, that we could have
some basic education and wacky we can pray and whatever whatever comes
with that, you know, but yeah, the religious experiences that I remember
you know, it was growing up are beautiful experiences, you know, that the
people you know, that especially, when the Ramadan is there and the
people are fasting and you can feel human today people are preparing in
in a bakeries, you know, special bread, you know, that we call Lepine,
you know, that they're preparing you know, when they want to break the
fast people were waiting in lines, you know, just for a half an hour just
to get that bread, you know, fresh and, and hot, you know, and then when
you get it, you know, you run home and trying to break the fast you know,
and yeah, those those things are staying over there. You know, the people
were very respectful, especially the Ramadan, you know, when when to each
other, you know, in Ramadan, it's there, you know, data That's seriously.
And yeah, then we had other people coming sapphires, we call them those
are visitors people that they were coming from other cities, you know, to
our hometown, you know, and we try to provide for them the best
experience they needed. And yeah, all that stuff, you know, the bring the
people together. And people were happy at that time and I know I was
happy
Amina Pezerovic 5:38
What was your experience coming to and living in Minnesota as a Muslim
Muamer Pezerovic 5:44
experience coming to Minnesota, you know, first time when I came here I
came thanks to my friends today used to live here in the land. The
promise promised me you know, that it's going to be much easier to find a
job here and no, I didn't have any other family, you know, some friends,
you know, and the first thing the first time I came here was not that
much. Thinking where and what do you know? Because as a Muslim, you can
pray in your own apartment you can be pray, you don't need to be in a
mosque or something No. to be. But yeah, it's a kind of later on, you
know, after some while, you know, then when I see we had a something new,
like a Muslim community from Bosnia that time was not that big. And
people were kinda for meeting each other, you know, just when it's a
bigger Eid Mubarak or for Ramadan, or even for Eid Adha and other
holidays. So let's see it, you know, but yeah, that we were renting
space, you know, just to pray at that time, because we didn't have that
big organization, you know, like some other countries for me, he's you
know, but step by step, you know, people start organizing and we could we
were able to thanks to the generous donations from other people to buy
the building and open the open the Islamic center and over Bosnian people
here in Minnesota. And yeah, it's it's kind of that was a kind of feeling
it's not, you know, you left everything behind, it was just five minutes
walk, you know, to every mosque in Bosnia, you know, where you live in
Orange here, calm, you don't see that it was a little bit confusing, but
you're worried, you know, how to survive here first, you know, that was a
thing that you concentrate, you know, to provide for a family on the
first place and everything for yourself. And thanks to Allah, you know,
we kinda, we kinda did that other thing, too, you know, we open up the
mosque, you know, and now people have a place to go to pray, you know, in
our own language, you know?
Amina Pezerovic 8:25
And did you ever feel disconnected from Assam while living in Minnesota?
No, never.
Muamer Pezerovic 8:30
You can never be if your true believer you cannot be disconnected. No
matter where you come, you know, where you go. If you carry that in your
heart. If you carry shahada, it's in your heart.
Amina Pezerovic 8:45
What did your community look like in Minnesota and where they muscling?
Muamer Pezerovic 8:51
Well, hold my friends, you know, on the beginning, you know, when I came
here, normally, there were Muslims, you know, and some people from ex
Yugoslavia, you know, that I met, you know, some Christ's Serbs, you
know, you met them, you know, but most of them, they were Muslims, you
know, and they hang out, you know, but at work, you know, I work with all
kinds of people, you know, the people, Latinos, you know, Americans,
everybody, you know, and normally cooking in front of them, you know, for
so many years. You have friendships through it, you know, all kinds of
people. Sometimes we talk about religion, even if it's a different,
different view or something, we just talked about it and that was the
main main part of it, you know, that they were people, freedom of speech
that you can say, What do you think and what do you what do you carry in
the other person also, you understand our main main thing is, there was
there was a kind of thing that carry on, you know, every day, I met so
many people that they impressed me and that they're going to stay with me
all my life, you know, how generous and how, how honest and nice people,
you know, sometimes you lose that feeling that those people don't exist,
and all of a sudden they show up, they just Yeah, but like I said, you
know, most of the people that I had for friends, we were visiting as a
family and I recall, you know, the Bosnia, Bosnian family, they come back
to us, and that was the kind of thing that, and beside the work, you
know, you couldn't, you couldn't do that much, you know, as we used to
do, like in Bosnia, or something, you know, here was a priority thing was
just to support your family, that was the number one rule in order to
provide that they have a place to stay sleep, they eat, they have
everything to eat, and, and normally, you know, if you have a time for
fun, and you go out with your friends, and you have fun, you know, but
yeah, that's the that's the kind of thing that like I said, that
community, you know, but it grows, it grows, you never know who you're
going to meet every day. And I hope it's just the honest and nice person.
Amina Pezerovic 11:29
Yeah. How did you practice your faith in a new country in a state that
didn't have a huge Bosnian Muslim community?
Muamer Pezerovic 11:39
Well, you know, as a, as a Muslim, you know, when you come in, if you
don't have a place to go a mosque, or masjid or, you know, you always
have your home, you just need to know, which side to turn, you know,
where is the mecca, you know, and that's where return and just pray at
home, you know, pray, or it was that time, you know, I remember when I
first time came here to United States, you when I came to Minnesota, we
had a mosques, you know, that they were built by the people that they
came from Saudi Arabia, or, or Lebanon or, you know, and that's what we
did on the beginning, you know, if we're going there and trying to, you
know, you go over there you pray, because every mosques you know, mosque,
it's a, it's a house of the guard, you know, and especially for, for
holidays, you know, for a middle fifth remedial at her aid, you know, we
were going you know, definitely, by that time, but otherwise, you know,
we stay at home, pray as much as you can, you know, as much times allows
you and, yeah, that will be
Amina Pezerovic 13:11
what were turning points in your religious life. Were they early in life
or more recently?
Muamer Pezerovic 13:17
Well, turning points, you know, like I said, before, you know, growing
up, you know, first of all, first thing that I remember, you know, like a
little kid and I was going to my grandpa, and we were kind of all the
family members, you know, like he was like five, six, maybe even 10 kids
you know, we were going there and then we were practicing in front of
him. Surrahs , you know, that's you have to learn and you have to learn
how to do the solid you know, and and basic things you know, that
religion gives you an all and besides that we were going to mosque you
know, that we had to finish the school, you know, in front of the Imam
you know, which I did, you know, I was maybe I finished hotma we call it
you know, when you read the whole Quran when I was about 14 years old,
and you have to do that in front of everybody in a mosque, you know, that
was a graduation for us. Yeah, but the thing is, you know, the religion
you know, growing up like that you don't think seriously about it, you
know, you just do something because your parents asked you to do and but
the main point, you know, in a religion that that was, I was affected,
you know, I was when I was in a camp during the war in Bosnia, you know,
when I was faced with faced with the deaths, you know, that It's that the
only thing that I remember that I said the academy shahada because I was
ready. I was ready to leave this world and everything you know and I said
Ashburn La Ilaha illa Allah wa Ashkelon the Muhammad Rasul Allah, like,
as every, every Muslim should say, before he leaves this world. And that
was it something you know, that you carry. And I was always fascinated,
you know, that, how in that situation person can stay so calm and so so
brave, you know, that you just don't even move you say, This is it, this
is well of God, you know, and this is, and but thanks to the gods, we
stay, here we are 30 years after he, you know, with a beautiful family
and, you know, and we just, we have to be in life, we have to be
grateful, you know, and just pray, pray for other people, that they stay
alive and healthy. And, you know, that's that will be Yeah.
Amina Pezerovic 16:17
What do you think is often misunderstood about Muslims in Minnesota,
Bosnian Muslims?
Muamer Pezerovic 16:25
Won't even generally, you know, the people don't understand, don't
understand some things, you know, they talk about something, but they
didn't even educate themselves, you know, to talk about people and what's
happening in the east over there, what's happening here, generally, you
know, the, putting all people in one, one pot, that's, that's, that's not
correct, you know, and everything what happens over there, you, you bring
the Muslims in 9111, like I said, the place everybody, you know, and
people should be more educated, you know, the latter people here in other
states, they don't even know about Islam, you know, they should, my view
is, you know, just they should study more and see what's all about, you
know, and when you do that, then it will be much better understanding
that Islam is the religion of peace, you know, and people are, people are
so nice and kind to each other, and you cannot put, like I said, if
somebody does something, some want to say, yes, it's like a terrorist or
somebody does something, you know, that, you know, you cannot put hold
people together in that, you know, it happens from every side, you know,
it's not only for Muslims, even Catholics or Jewish or everybody has a
some kind of people that are extreme, that it can commit something, you
know, that you cannot generalize, you know, everybody with that, and
that's the only thing you know, I think that people have a lack of
education about Islam, you know, and once they do that, they then they
understand better you know, what's going on? And I think they have more
respect for Muslims.
Amina Pezerovic 18:27
What are your experiences with Muslims of other ethnicities and races?
Muamer Pezerovic 18:33
Well, I met so many people here in Minnesota, you know, especially, you
know, working at the restaurant, you know, I could that was able to meet
some people you know, from Somalia from 83. from Lebanon, Palestine,
which country in the world you know, Turkey normally, you know, when the
Yeah, it's all one thing, it's in common, you know, those people are nice
smiling as salaam alaikum, my brother or you know, it's a kinda you know,
you can see that it's happiness and on their faces, you know, that they
don't mean anything bad to other person. You know, but like I said,
people just want a good life, you know, for for their families and for
themselves and normally for others, you know, and help your neighbor
like, like you said, Help, and it's gonna Good thing it's gonna return to
you, you know, and that's the that's the main thing I think in life, you
know, just try to help try to help everybody around you and all those
people, you know, that I met there was so nice You know, we could find,
we could find together, you know, we could talk about the religion, we
could talk about other stuff in life, you know, and all the time if they
were leaving and say, Oh, inshallah brother You know, it's gonna be you
know how the Allah tell it's gonna be for us you know and yeah but when
nothing then just the good experiences you know
Amina Pezerovic 20:30
what role does Islam play in your life and now?
Muamer Pezerovic 20:35
Well, Islam hates the way, way of life, you know, just it's a big roll,
big rolling, especially people when they get older, you know, they're
gonna turn more to word religion in everything you know, and besides the
work that we do here and everything, you know, it's not an excuse, you
know, but now it's getting better, you know, hopefully, you know, we try
even with the kids, you know, to teach him to keep it and later on, you
know, to carry on, you know, that big thing, big thing and nine in a life
that can lead you if you if you follow the rules of Islam, you know,
you're going to be on the right path. You know, and you're going to be
nice person, first of all, you know, after that, you know, it's
everything else. But hopefully, hopefully, in the future, you know, we
just, we're gonna try, we're gonna try even more doing that we do now,
you know, and Islam, it's the best cure for everybody and all especially
psychologically, you know, if you do that, you know, and you pray every
day, then it's gonna bring you down in this difficult times in audits
that everybody is experiencing in order. Everything around us, you know,
the wars going on, and people are so worried about stuff, you know, but
you need to have a something you have to need. You have to keep the faith
and don't lose hope. And the hope is everything. If you lose hope, and
you lose everything. That's what I learned from my experience. But like I
said, Yeah, it's Islam plays plays a big role. You know, we try to keep
it as much as much as we can, you know, we can always do much more and
better. But that's, that's the, that's the thing. You know, when it
clicks, it clicks, you know, sometimes you cannot push it. If you push it
too much, sometimes people burn. You cannot overdo it, you know, and
hopefully, everything is gonna be okay. And hopefully my family you know,
and the kids you know, they're gonna carry on, carry on, you know,
whatever we left, you know, to them and that will be the main idea that
they find the truth. And and, what else could be said?
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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