8/15/2019
Interview with Chef Judah - edited.mp3
Interview with Chef Judah - edited.mp3
Tue, 4/16 · 4:11 PM
36:58
KEYWORDS
people
jewish
soup
born
thought
judah
lived
esther
Rebecca Hartwig
years
place
tunisia
sleeping
gave
day
moved
job
called
america
orphanage
quaker
... Show more
8/15/2019
Interview with Chef Judah - edited.mp3
Interview with Chef Judah - edited.mp3
Tue, 4/16 · 4:11 PM
36:58
KEYWORDS
people
jewish
soup
born
thought
judah
lived
esther
Rebecca Hartwig
years
place
tunisia
sleeping
gave
day
moved
job
called
america
orphanage
quaker
0:00
Thank you for joining us here for this oral history project. My name is Rebecca
Hartwig, I'm a lecturer in the nursing department at Augsburg University. And I
just need to confirm that you consent to be interviewed, and to have the
recorded interview stored at Augsburg, which will be made available to the
public. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording, your name and
title?
CJ
Chef Judah
0:22
Sure, my name is Chef Judah. short and simple. My real name is Jean-Claude
Patrice Nataf, but my professional name is Chef Judah.
Rebecca Hartwig
0:30
Thank you. So just to begin, can you tell us a little bit about where you grew
up?
CJ
Chef Judah
0:35
Okay, I was born in a small country in North Africa called Tunisia. I was born
in the city of Tunis. I come from a mixed heritage of Sephardi Jewish and
Arab. I believe my Sephardi Jewish family lived in Africa since probably
around the seven hundreds. But then most notably, they were asked to leave
around 1492. And they ended up in Morocco. And after a few centuries, made
their way to Tunisia. And so that's where I come up on the scene.
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Rebecca Hartwig
1:10
Okay, thank you. So what was your life, like when you were growing up?
CJ
Chef Judah
1:16
Sure, um, my life was challenging. I was... I just tell people simply I was a
barefoot child beggar, kind of to encapsulate and give you the idea. And I just
sometimes, I just ask people to remember maybe movies or documentaries,
the I'm at a scene where tourists are in countries, poor countries, and the
children are all mobbing, mobbing them for money and all that. And that's
kind of like, that was kind of my life. And I had my own little group of our
gang, if you will. And that's what we did. We, we were hungry. And so we
would, we would bother the British tourists, especially because they were
really rich. And we would beg for money, of course, and, and sometimes,
unfortunately, we stole from them. I'm not proud of that. But that's what we
did, you know. So my life was kind of like that my family for reasons I didn't
know then just wasn't very active and taking care of me. I only figured out
later in life, all the dynamics and reasons why that was.
CJ
Chef Judah
2:21
So the first eight years of my life was spent in and Tunisia. Again, kind of a
challenge in existence, and just a lot of stuff happening. I spent some time in a
Catholic orphanage in the north of the country. It was run by the Sisters of St.
Vincent de Paul. And again, my family was so dysfunctional that I didn't
realize it was an orphanage until I was an adult. I thought it was a boarding
school. But I ran away from this orphanage quite a lot because there was stuff
going on and there wasn't pleasant. So until one fateful day in 1967, when I
actually ran to the orphanage, and I didn't come out until it was adopted and
left the country in 1968.
Rebecca Hartwig
3:04
Tell us about that day.
CJ
Chef Judah
3:07
June 5, 1967.
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Interview with Chef Judah - edited.mp3
Chef Judah
3:27
Unbeknownst to me, a war had started in the Middle East. I didn't have any
ideas about it. And I didn't even have any ideas of what I was. I was so I won't
say stupid, but I was ignorant. I didn't know Jewish I didn't know Muslim or
Arab at all, but on that day, when I went to work in the streets and meet my
little gang, it was just a different situation and angry mob, for some reason
that I didn't realize then started to chase me and stone me and stuff, which I
bear all the scars on my face. But it was a scary time for me. I was little I was
just had turned seven. And so then, at that point, I made my way to the
orphanage. And like I said, I stayed there. I did not leave the gates of the
other walls of the orphanage until 1968, I believe it was August. Tunisia was
the only country in Africa to be occupied by the Nazis. And some of the Nazis
came down and occupied Tunisia. My family did different things but my one
anut was in the French Resistance. So she did all this stuff. So when the US
Army and British armies liberated Tunisia, she kind of attached herself to the
US Army as an interpreter, because she was multilingual. And that's where she
kind of glommed onto a GI. And that was her ticket to America,. You have to
understand that that time frame in that place, a lot of people wanted to get
out of this, go somewhere else anywhere, but and of course, America was the
great beacon. So she came to Toledo, Ohio, and 46 times, and then a few
husbands later, she ends up with her new husband, a Danish man born in a
small island in the Baltic. And they were on their honeymoon, and they were
going to go to Paris, but it was the Paris guard? strike that year. Their plane
was diverted, and they ended up in Tunisia. And they came to see me at the
orphanage because they had heard about me, and then they wanted to
adopt me. So that's the.. I remember the day that Mother Superior came to
me with these presents. And it was two presents that I'll always remember
keeping in mind that didn't have anything. It was a Mickey Mouse watch, and
a pair of Fruit of the Loom underwear. As a kid, I saw those things and like, I'm
like, I want more of this. And so I was very eager to leave that place to leave.
So Mother Superior told them that I would be a blessing to them. So my aunt
being very superstitious because Tunisia is a very superstitious place in my I
know my family, which was a mishmash, my grandfather was Sephardic
Jewish, my grandmother was Italian Catholic, there were 25 years apart. They
fell in love and lived in a in an environment that was hostile to both of them. It
was a Muslim environment that didn't like either group, but they loved each
other and seven children, but superstition all mixed in Italian, Catholic, Islamic
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Jewish, all kinds of the Evil Eye was everywhere. You had to do all these signs
to ward it off and wear amulets. So my aunt was superstitious and so not
superstitious, but when Mother Superior said "he'll be a blessing to you", like
oh, yeah, let's, let's get this. Let's take this guy out of here. And so just notably,
I had my first pair of shoes for the airplane. Right. So yeah.
Rebecca Hartwig
6:24
And that's how you came to the US then, whey you were about eight?
CJ
00:00
1x
Chef Judah
6:26
36:58
Eight years old, yes. So it was kind of going from one universe to another. I
5
5
remember, well, first of all the plane trip, everything. In those days, you could
go in the cockpit and the captain would give you this little wings and it was
very exciting. But I always remember I write stories about Americanization, or
at least me when I stepped off the plane and was in the airport. And when
those big glass doors opened. And I saw America, I saw 1000 cars there. And
my adoptive father Ben Larson worked for Ford Motor Company. So he had
this huge straddle cruiser I don't know what make I think was Continental this
huge car. And so for me, a little brown skinned guy who just came from
beggin' in this vehicle and my face is pressed to the window of the car - we
were going through the rolling hills of of the suburbs of Detroit, we're going to
Bloomfield Hills, which was a very well off suburb to a condominium called
Fox Hills. I remember seeing this undulating hills of green and I didn't know
really what that was. I come from a place where every little scrap of land that
you could grow food on or was used for that. So I asked my aunt I didn't know
English them. So , qu'est-ce que c'est ca?, you know, and she goes, Oh, that's
grass. She explains it to me. And when she tells me that it wasn't food, that it
wasn't flowers, for the perfume industry. It wasn't anything. It was just there
for looks. I thought that this is like the promised land. This is what I heard of
heard little things as a child you hear about America and how it's awesome.
And that was like, Oh, yeah, this is this is it. So and then I show up to my new
home condominium and I had my own bedroom and there was a TV in every
room. And so that was a very, it was an initial very shocking for me. And I
slept with my shoes for a whole month because I was afraid somebody was
going to steal them. And then they convinced me nobody was going to steal
your shoes. It's okay. And so that was my introduction to America.
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Rebecca Hartwig
8:35
So you finished high school...in...
CJ
Chef Judah
8:39
Oh, well, I, I was eight years old. And really up to that time, I had had no
formal schooling. There was something at the orphanage - we learned we
learned French, Arabic, Script. But when I came to America, I was sorely
behind the American system of education. I'm not sure what grade I would
have been put in, but I was behind I had to learn English first. And so I had
learned English really quickly.
CJ
Chef Judah
9:04
But in learning my English so quickly, I had actually pushed aside my French
language. It was still here, but I wanted to be American so much that and my
parents did not encourage and the bilingualism really for me.
CJ
Chef Judah
9:20
So a year and a half later, though, I just learned English then we moved to
Japan.
CJ
Chef Judah
9:26
And so then there was another kind of another cultural shock. For me exciting
as a kid and being an executive brat. In the moment, it was exciting, but it's
only in retrospect that I realized that what I really, really, really, really wanted
was just to stay put in one place and and just you know, and in the time that I
was with my adoptive parents this eight years I was with them, we moved six
times. Six schools, six places six. So I was always the new kid. Always. And
that wasn't really what I...
Rebecca Hartwig
10:00
In Japan for...
CJ
Chef Judah
10:02
We were there for three years. And even in Japan, we moved twice.
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CJ
Interview with Chef Judah - edited.mp3
Chef Judah
10:08
And it wasn't until 1976 when they wanted to go to Japan again and I I did not
want to go again. I just so just the way things happened. My mom had
learned about this some my adoptive mom had learned about a Quaker
school, boarding school in the Appalachians and that's where I went
Rebecca Hartwig
10:29
to finish high school...
CJ
Chef Judah
10:30
yes, my junior senior year, which was really wonderful.
CJ
Chef Judah
10:36
I love the Quakers.
Rebecca Hartwig
10:39
And then and then how did you end up here in Minneapolis?
CJ
Chef Judah
10:42
Sure, I finished, '78 I graduated and then I and then I was lucky as an
executive brat. My present was a trip around the world literally I went to Asia
and European and came back to America and a new car. Which I returned
because I was in this phase of rebelliousness and I didn't want this. This you
know, of course now I'm thinking gosh I was stupid. It was a nice sky- blue
Mustang retro, oh my god. But um, I was just in rebellion stage and I said I'll
take your filthy car back. So I went to Earlham College for one year in
Richmond, Indiana. It was Quaker based, so there was connections and, and
my year at Earlham, my one and only year at Earlham was the best funnest
year of my life, but wasn't a good student at all. And I figured out I just wasn't
wired for academics. At that point. I was just too antsy and I just wanted to go
to California because that was what we were doing then. You went to
California, whatever your questions were they would be answered in
California. So I packed up all my stuff and started hitchhiking from Richmond,
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Indiana, to make my way to California. On that route. I ended up in Madison,
Wisconsin, where a good friend of mine from Quaker school. Abe Rybeck said
you know what? You should stop the Minneapolis, St. Paul, it's really cool. And
so that was 1979 and I never made it to California.
Rebecca Hartwig
12:07
Oh, wow. You've been here ever since...
CJ
Chef Judah
12:09
With trips. I've lived in the panhandle, Florida. I've lived in Arizona and I went
to Hiroshima University. But Minneapolis, St. Paul became my nest my my
central place to go back to always.
Rebecca Hartwig
12:24
So what did you do in Minneapolis?
CJ
Chef Judah
12:26
Boy, when I first rolled into town, I remember my first night I spend at
McAllister College. I had one friend there and they were having a housing
shortage, so there was kids sleeping in the hallway. So I blended in. And then
the next day, there was a board that had housing and jobs. And I was able to
find the room for rent and I was able to find a job in the cafeteria of
McAllister. And so I did that for a while. And this job entailed me go into two
different addresses every day to help elderly people and stuff like that and
taking the bus system. And one day, I took the wrong bus or the right bus,
whatever you might call it, but I ended up on the West Bank of Minneapolis.
See, all my jobs were in St. Paul. So when I got off that bus in the West Bank
of Minneapolis in 1979, I looked around and I thought this is really where I
need to be. Just to quote Bob Dylan, "There was music in the cafes at night
and revolution in the air." It was still palatable than. It's been transformed
since then. It was just a real cool place and....
CJ
Chef Judah
13:29
so I was a gypsy I moved around a lot. I'm not sure if it was the influence of
my childhood where we moved so much but I found it hard to be sedentary.
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And so it's just various jobs, you know, here and there and I took a few courses
here school trying to get more academics but um, I wasn't a very good
student at all, you know,
Rebecca Hartwig
13:51
a lot of ways of learning.
CJ
Chef Judah
13:53
Right. I guess I learned a lot. Other ways. Certainly. I just wasn't that good
academic. I wasn't wired for it.
Rebecca Hartwig
14:00
So here we are at Soup For You already, and I'm not quite sure when that... I
don't really know the history of Soup For You.
CJ
Chef Judah
14:07
Oh, sure. Well, a lot of things happened in my life. I moved around a lot Japan
a few times Pensacola, Florida Panhandle. I love my America experience is
really great, because it's such a huge country. And I feel blessed that I was
able to, you know, get the feel of different parts of it the Midwest, the South,
scary, the Southwest. So odd jobs, of course, I had a little apartment in
Stephen Square and I had a job where I had to get on the bus and the bus
would go over the Franklin bridge to take me to MiniMatic ?and it was an
okay job. But I got a paycheck every week. And I was able to have a place
and food on the table. And I would be on this bus going this way in that way
back and forth. And each time we went over the bridge, I would look down
and back then at least I would see things down there like tents and things and
people and I wondered naively, I thought those were people just camping or
fishing for fun. I never thought once that I might be one of those people down
there. So one day when I went to work and got my paycheck, I was told
because I was like the new, the new people got laid off. And so, paycheck
away...
CJ
Chef Judah
15:20
I lost my place eventually, because obviously I couldn't.. I didn't have any
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money. I didn't have a support structure. I didn't have family, my family was
thousands of miles away. I had no really friends that were able to help me.
And so I - I spent quite a few weeks just sleeping on the buses, like the 21A. But
then I would start to go to the free eating places. And that's where I hooked
up with people that said, Well, you know, you could live, you know, and so I
ran into two people. One was a Vietnam vet. And one I don't know what he
did, he was a railroad guy. But we had a structure, they had a structure
became part of this little three man group of living under the bridge.
Rebecca Hartwig
16:04
What years were there was under the bridge years?
CJ
Chef Judah
16:07
it was the late 80s. Sometimes it's a fog. But that land belonged to the
railroad. But if you as a person, as a homeless person wanted to live down
there, you actually had to pay some rent to this group called the Freight Train
Riders of America. FTRA, a notorious group that rides the rails, just a lot of
psychos and Vietnam vets with a lot of problems. But you have to pay them
something, you could pay them in different ways. And so I liked it. And for
that, they gave you a lot. They provided security. And they provided justice.
And I give the example of one time we were able to go to Mary Jo
Copeland's, and were able to get these nice galoshes for all three of us, and
that was important, you know your feet, the slush, and all the crap. And so we
had them in our encampment, and we weren't using them then. But one day,
we came back and they were gone. And so long story short, the FTRA or the
"goon squad", they found out who stole our our galoshes,
Rebecca Hartwig
17:14
wow....
CJ
Chef Judah
17:16
and they chopped their thumb off...
CJ
Chef Judah
17:20
so that was an introduction to this is kind of this is real here. This is for real.
This is a real subculture And it's very serious And there's a structure and
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This is a real subculture. And it s very serious. And there s a structure and
there's rules and stuff and you don't break the rules. If you do you end up
without a thumb. And so that was kind of an awakening for me that this was
you know, serious stuff. Just saying, because not having shoes can cost you
your toes your feet, so you don't steal those things from anybody and
anyway...
CJ
Chef Judah
17:53
Homelessness - finally I was able to make it out. I got a voucher to live at a
place called the Tourist Hotel on 9th and Hennepin. Long time ago. Now I
think it's called a New Amsterdam something. It's above this bar, this disco
bar. I lived there a couple years ended up coming to the West Bank - I lived
on the West Bank eight years. In those eight years, I would walk from my
apartment to the co-op the old North Country Co-Op. And I would always
walk by this place called St. Martin's Table until one day I went to the club
and there used to be a big kiosk, with all these things on it and it said
"dishwasher wanted". I had things going on then. But I ok, I could use more
money. So I went in to apply for the dishwasher job. So I'm happily doing the
dishes. And then one day during a rush, one of the women of the cooks threw
me a recipe card and said, "Judah, could you please help?" So I looked, okay,
the cheese spread. I did it and I thought oh, you know, like, you know, this is
okay. And so then I slowly segued into making soups.
CJ
Chef Judah
18:56
And St. Martin's Table is important because that's where I met my future wife
to be for 10 years. And of course, my I wouldn't have had my child Esther, had
that not happened. But then of course, there's a side story because I know if
you know my wife, my ex wife, Karen had a traumatic brain injury. This was 18
- 19 years ago and I married her after her accident and I had to identify her at
the hospital, it's kind of, but that's when I became Esther's papa. And that was
one of the biggest joys of my life.
CJ
Chef Judah
19:27
So 15 years later, St. Martin's Table closes. And so um, and so I thought, what
should I do? Well, while I was at St. Martin's Table I had started a little thing
called Soup for You. And it was a small catering thing, just a one man
operation for doing soup suppers for churches and nonprofits usually So I had
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operation for doing soup suppers for churches and nonprofits usually. So I had
that going on. So when St. Martin's closed, I wondered what was I going to do
with myself, I didn't want to sit by the phone, waiting for people to call me.
And then one day I was just walking in my neighborhood and there was a
CSA truck dropping off stuff. And I thought to myself,
CJ
Chef Judah
20:01
Hmm.... soup CSA, soup CSA. I wonder if that could work. You know, people
pay me money up front, they get 30 soups for 30 weeks. That was my slogan.
And then I thought okay, so I started the groundwork for that all summer. And
then I needed the space. And just by happenstance, Mary Laurel True was
friends with Pastor Justin. So that was six years ago. And Pastor Justin said,
Yeah, sure. So allowing me to use the the kitchen for my thing. So but I knew
something was up because when they gave me the contract to sign, I noticed
that they gave me a 96% discount on the rent.
Rebecca Hartwig
20:42
of the kitchen...
CJ
Chef Judah
20:43
right. And I thought, wow, you know, some What's going on here? Because
this was two years before Soup for You Cafe, I had no really, that wasn't in the
plans yet. I was just going to try to make an honest living. And actually, that
coincided with my marriage breaking up. So it was really important that I had
something going on. So pastor Justin, and even with Pastor Justin I started
the conversation about you know, can we have a free meal in the space, you
know, like once a mont?. And so he agreed, and then he talked to the
congregation they agreed, but then he left to go to Augsburg.
CJ
Chef Judah
21:21
Then we had an interim pastor, and there's been five pastors. So cut to the
chase, Pastor Mike Madsen was the one.
CJ
Chef Judah
21:30
When I told him my idea, he was very gung ho and understand he was young
and very eager And so he talked to the congregation they said okay and of
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and very eager. And so he talked to the congregation they said, okay, and of
course it mophed from one meal a month to every day of the week.
CJ
Chef Judah
21:44
Yeah, five days a week. Yes. And now they started, where in the last two
months we had one Sunday that to join the the five days a week, Soup For
You community with the Bethany Sunday community, which sometimes never
met. So we start in a Sunday meal once in a while to get those two groups
together to say hi.
Rebecca Hartwig
22:04
So it started out as a for profit for you.
CJ
Chef Judah
22:08
Well, my little sole proprietorship. Yeah, for the first two years. It was about 70
people would come on a Friday or Saturday the pickup one quart jar or two
quart jars of soups. So yeah, but now since the cafe part, my little thing is kind
of come to the backburner pun intended. It's not altruistic. It makes me feel
good. I get a lot out of it, I really do.
Rebecca Hartwig
22:34
So you have to come in every day, pretty early to get soup started?
CJ
Chef Judah
22:37
Well, I get up between 530 and 630 every day. I try to make it out the door by
seven ish. But really my whole time, at St. Martin's Table was really training
for... I was younger then... I would come into St. Martin's at 6:30 a.m. I would
bake 12 loaves of bread, I would do a couple of desserts, I would do the soups
I would do spreads, salad dressings. I was able to do a lot. So I'm able to do a
lot and just I'd say three hours.
Rebecca Hartwig
23:04
Do you know what foods you're going to have to use?
CJ
Chef Judah
23:06
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Interesting question. It's a lot of times it's like splendid table, because we're
allowed to cull from the co-op my cull team, John and Sarah. I don't know
what they're bringing, or in the morning, when I come in, I really don't know
what's going to be there. So the first thing I look and see, what do we have.
But then you know, we have Chili Friday. So it's always going to be on you
know, chili on Friday, Get Curried Away Thursday, curry soup.
CJ
Chef Judah
23:33
So those days, but just the challenge to just make something out of what you
have. And that's really kind of purposeful in that it's a reflection of most of the
world. They get up in the morning, they might not have a lot of choices about
what they're going to eat or Yeah, once you've experienced hunger, you you
never forget it at all. And that's the fear and back of your mind all the time.
And sometimes I find myself hoarding things, it's like, "chill, Judah, chill" it's,
"you're going to have" ..."it's, okay". But it's just that mindset that you you
never lose.
CJ
Chef Judah
24:06
And then on top of that I have I really care about people eating. You know,
one question I ask people when they're leaving, like, oh, did you get enough?
I'm like, one quarter Jewish grandmother.
Rebecca Hartwig
24:20
Right... Oh, well, the reason I as a nursing instructor enjoy bringing my
community health students here is because I like them to see what's
happening in the community as far as health, and how Soup For You brings
health to people who come in off the streets. Not all homeless... But tell me
just a bit about the people who do come in to Soup For You..
CJ
Chef Judah
24:43
Right. Well, that's I called and I used to use that word a lot radical soup
kitchen, because we invite everyone, whether you own a bank, or whether you
come in with a plastic bag with all your belongings in it. But as you know, also
walking through the doors, a lot of men health issues, a lot of substance
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abuse issues. And a lot of other ghosts that we don't know.
CJ
Chef Judah
25:07
Have people shot up in our bathrooms? Yes. Have people shot up next to the
church? Yes. Have people drank? Have people lost their minds here. Yeah.So
to be a volunteer at Soup For You. It's not like being at Denny's. I need my
volunteers to be discernful, to try to understand that we do get many broken
people walking in, and we're broken ourselves, but, you know...
CJ
Chef Judah
25:51
I can give you two examples that come to mind. And one is last year this
woman came in and she started to be a regular but would give her her soup.
And she would pour her bowl of soup into her plate and eat it that way. So we
don't judge we just noticed it's different than so after a few months, I decided
you know what? So I looked around, and I found an oval bowl. And so when
she came in one day, I serve her with the bowl of soup in that oval bowl, and I
brought it to her and I remember she cried. And she wasn't crying because
she was sad, but she was crying cuz it's like, wow, you noticed what I was
doing and you didn't judge one way or another. You just gave me a way to do
it better. So I'll always remember that. And she will tell people that story a lot
about how that happened that one day.
CJ
Chef Judah
26:34
Oh, there are so many stories more recently, a few months back. We're
working in the hubbub. And then I noticed one gentleman, a youngster blond
hair, blue eyes, just standing there. just staring straight. And so I go to this
gentleman I started you know how you doing welcome and, and he couldn't
speak very well at all. He was struggling. So we just guided him to a chair, sat
him down. And then we just brought him food. But it he's someone that was
just break your heart because he had motor skills problems. He couldn't speak
very well. And he would come in on top of his all his issues he would come in
with garbage he had picked up in the street. And last week, he came in with a
dead baby bird in his hand. So there's a lot of dynamics going on. And then I
remember one day, he was going to leave and he was just standing there.
And I said, Do you want to hug? And he indicated Yeah. So I gave him a hug.
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And so I started to do that. But I noticed when I hugged him, I felt really
drained. So I don't do it so much now. But that's just an example.
CJ
Chef Judah
27:50
This isn't like a place that you're going to find anywhere else. There's so much
going on here. And we try to you know, if somebody comes in with sandals in
December that we rush around trying to find shoes for them, things like that,
you know, it's not just about a lot, it takes a lot. for that moment, when you
get your plate and your bowl of soup. It takes a lot to get to that point. But it's
not just about that. It's very all encompassing, holistic, very holistic. And we
get to know people's ways and idiosyncrasies and quirkinesses and we and
there are a lot of needy people out there, I'm needy myself, but we recognize
this a lot of needy people. And to some it might seem like it's annoying, but
you just have to understand that's really they just want attention and love and
just acknowledgement or authentication, that you're a human being, you
know, that's why I have my peoples cooler. It's kind of like a little food shelf.
But we don't ask people to fill out forms. Shelf ID I've always wondered about
that. Why do we even have to prove to a food shelf that "what you're a
human being and you're hungry?" Why? Why do we need to dehumanize
people further? You know...
Rebecca Hartwig
29:03
Would you say that? A lot of your guests are our regulars that come? And feel
this is kind of a home?
CJ
Chef Judah
29:09
Oh, most definitely. (During) the polar vortex? People came, our numbers
stayed up high.
CJ
Chef Judah
29:16
Also just this morning as an example, we opened the door and in 15 minutes,
we had 20 people. So people do look forward. And that means a lot to me,
because we are literally the farthest outpost of a free meal. So the fact that
people do come in... I get a lot of joy out of, of course, people eating good
healthy food, but I get a joy out of hearing the snippets of 12 conversations. I
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want people to converse. You know, at St. Martin's Table, it was books, food
conversation. Here it's food and conversation. But just the idea that people
are interacting in that way and making friendships that they wouldn't have
made - relationships. That means a lot to me.
Rebecca Hartwig
29:57
I've never been here without having a good conversation with somebody, and
leaving feeling like I've really gained something, myself.
CJ
Chef Judah
30:05
Well, as I say, you know, the old show was there's 1000 stories in the Naked
City. We've got a lot of them down there. And just over the four years, there's
been so many stories and a lot of, you know, just like joys, you know... We're
trying to get into a house, or a place. You know, but then also we have lost
like..., he started to come like maybe three and a half years ago, he would
come. And he always sat by himself at first because he was sober. And that's
the price you pay for being sober, you have to stay away from people. So he
came and got to know each other joke and very polite. Then he didn't come
for a while then he showed back up but he was with a group of people, and
he wasn't sober. But fine. We feed people as long as you're not disruptive or
hurting anybody. Then there came a time though, I had to ask him to leave.
And as I usually do, I never banish people forever. I will say one month, two
months. I gave him a little slip of paper, and had a date on it, which was two
months from now. And I said, you know, "I love you, come back for two
months". Because I live three blocks away and I have a huge window and just
been in my neighborhoods, I would see him sleeping on bus benches or, or
drunk or one day I saw him with two black eyes. You know, it killed me inside.
But it's it was unavoidable. So it was the Sunday before the Monday that he
was he could come back and he was by the highway with the sign. And he
saw me and he goes, you know, "Chef Judah tomorrow, right? tomorrow!". Of
course. I was like, wow, you know, I said "yes, tomorrow", you know. So then
that Monday morning, I come into work early, it was a rainy stormy morning.
And I always look at the sides of the building first to see if anybody's... you
know. But then I noticed on the one of the awnings there where people do
sleep, there was (name edited out).
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CJ
Interview with Chef Judah - edited.mp3
Chef Judah
31:51
And so, to me, not only did he keep that little slip of paper, but, he wanted so
much to come back here that he was hugging our building in the midst of a
rainstorm. We spent that night there. So you know, I mean, that struck me
inside. it's ... how can it not affect you? So he came back. And.... he knew we
would welcome him back. He came and he always had a good friend named
Dan. And they were like this. They were combat Marines in the Vietnam War.
And they've been together since. They came together. And then one day a
rumor started that somebody had OD'd. And it was somebody from Soup For
You. Didn't know, for a week or so. And then finally, one day Dan did come.
And Dan said, You know, I woke up one morning and I thought that he had
gone off whatever. It wasn't until a couple days later that Dan gets wakened
up by sirens and ambulances and... he was just in the bushes a few feet away.
CJ
Chef Judah
32:56
So he was born on the Rosebud Reservation, he was adopted. And he had a
hard life but...
CJ
Chef Judah
33:05
so we lose some. And the danger really of all this is getting to know people. I
don't mean that as a bad thing, but once you get to know people, you invest
your heart in them. And you worry about them and look for them. Is he still
alive?
CJ
Chef Judah
33:22
So he hit all of us hard, you know...
CJ
Chef Judah
33:28
So that's just one little story... of what happens.
Rebecca Hartwig
33:32
Hmm... thank you for sharing that.
CJ
Chef Judah
33:33
But then there's a lot of moments where it's like "Judah you can help
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But then there s a lot of moments where it s like Judah, you can help
everybody".
Rebecca Hartwig
33:40
So what would you think, would you like to see with the future, because this
has come a long ways and four years?
CJ
Chef Judah
33:47
Yes, yeah. Yeah, the first year we did 10,000 bowls, and now we're at 71,000
bowls. So we've exponent... not exponentially, but we're growth, growth
growth.
CJ
Chef Judah
33:58
I just want it to continue, I want to expand our services in a way. In some
ways, I mean, food is still the main... food and providing a safe space. You
know, we have that guest book. And I think I might have shown you I mean,
there's all kinds of love in that guestbook but, the one little statement that
really struck me was, it just said, "I feel safe here". Savannah, I remember this
very frail gal who has moved on. But I thought that's really that's what we
want.
CJ
Chef Judah
34:30
I use the term 'all the rainbow' and that's purposely 'all the rainbow' should
be. We not just welcome but we invite people to come in and you know, not
just that we wait for you to come in. And welcome you will do that, but just
wanted to be a safe place. And it's kind of an experiment. can it happen? Can
it really? Can you have all these different people cohabitate in the space for
just even two and a half hours, but so far, it seems to be working okay.
CJ
Chef Judah
34:58
Yeah, there was a shame, though, for all those years that that room just
stayed quiet and dark and cold, not used. And that was really what was
getting to me was, because I walk around my neighborhood, I see, just in my
neighborhood, just people could benefit. Yeah, the need is there. And not just
that I recognize people from the old days, "wow, you're still alive?". But, you
k
Th
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know... The people down there that have problems and issues... they don't
want to be like that. You know, they don't. And so there's always that
sympathy or empathy or compassion. That you know, they don't want to be
like that. Of course not. But you feel so much that...
Rebecca Hartwig
35:43
I noticed nothing but respect, compassion... it's top shelf-shelf soup, I'll tell
you that!
CJ
Chef Judah
35:51
Well, keep coming, you'll find some losers, 'cuz last week, I didn't have hardly
anything to work with. You know, one of the biggest compliments my
daughter ever gave me was you know, she goes, "Papa! You're able to make
something out of nothing".
CJ
Chef Judah
36:06
I thought Yeah, that's a good thing, Esther.
Rebecca Hartwig
36:11
Well, thank you so much for your time and...
CJ
Chef Judah
36:22
This is my daughter, Esther (shows me her picture on his phone).
Rebecca Hartwig
36:22
Oh, oh, she's beautiful!. Oh, my goodness! How old is she now?
CJ
Chef Judah
36:22
Oh, 21, plus, yeah. She's Chinese, of course. My wife, my ex-wife adapted her
before we were married, but I adopted Esther legally.
Rebecca Hartwig
36:30
She's beautiful.
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CJ
Interview with Chef Judah - edited.mp3
Chef Judah
36:30
Yeah, she's my... it's kind of an irony of all things. You know, she's born and...
we we're born 10,000 miles apart - I was born in North Africa - she's in
China. And then we, our worlds intersect here. And how unlikely is that? Yeah,
but she gives me something that I never had. And that's unconditional love.
That's what we all want.
Rebecca Hartwig
36:53
Beautiful... Thank you, Chef Judah.
CJ
Chef Judah
36:53
Yeah, you're welcome.
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Show less
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony
Cosby, 2018
Tue, 3/9 1:48PM
47:05
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, chicago, kids, killing, feet, years, freezing, drinking, ai, street, toiletries, commons, sleep,
health, housing, big, shot, augsburg, care, growing
SPEAKERS
Freddy (security), Kathleen C... Show more
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony
Cosby, 2018
Tue, 3/9 1:48PM
47:05
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, chicago, kids, killing, feet, years, freezing, drinking, ai, street, toiletries, commons, sleep,
health, housing, big, shot, augsburg, care, growing
SPEAKERS
Freddy (security), Kathleen Clark, Lee Anthony Cosby
Kathleen Clark 00:00
All right. Hello, my name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of Nursing at Augsburg
University. Could you introduce yourself for the recording?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 00:09
My name is Lee Anthony Cosby.
Kathleen Clark 00:11
Great.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 00:12
And I've been going to Augsburg for quite some time.
Kathleen Clark 00:17
Great. Well, thank you for joining me today for the oral history project. Before we begin, I
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
would just like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed and having that interview
recording stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 00:33
Um, yeah
Kathleen Clark 00:35
That's okay? Ok, great. Good. So, we're recording here and the trailer, where the health
provinces so if there's any interruptions, that's what the background noise is. But to get
started, can you just tell me a little bit about where you grew up in who you called family?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 00:56
Well, I grew up. I was born and raised in Chicago, Illinois. And I have a humble
background. As a kid, parents were together for a while and things changed and we
started growing up different me and my brother you know. So ah, we had loving
grandparents stayed in the projects, near where we stayed in the projects where we was
at and like I say it was real humble and it was dangerous. You know when you're kids. You
know kids get shot. You know just a lot of things that you wouldn't see, you know you
might see on TV or something like that, you know but. Up and close, you out there you,
you shocked. You know people doing things you know get high you know so do some
people it's gummy?? kids mothers in the hallway, and you know they be drinking and
smoking you know, all those things so. That's something that I'll cherish there's a kid
because now I knew what it was about growing up and you know moving you change
moving to a house, it's different you know, different neighborhood. You know but I say. You
know, I wouldn’t give it up for nothin’. I won’t change a thing, because you know. I learned
a lot. I seen some of my friends get killed and a lot of us did. You know. You know a lot of
us didn’t have dads and that’s the key. We had no male figure. You know that that was
your dad…. so you can get away with stuff, when you know, when it's just mom.. especially
when she's trying to go to work. You know and then the girlfriend gotta watch you, you
know watch the kids, you know. Things like that, you know because they don't work and all
that. But like I say you know, I wouldn't you know, I wouldn't you know….. I wouldn’t give it
up for anything. What I've done throughout my life, when I get, you know, when I seen and
when I did you know. If I was growing up a little more understanding a little more things
are different. You know people are different. You know I've seen a lot of things people get
shot get killed and things like that. So, like I say I wouldn't give it up for nothing because
without that I wouldn't know where it’s be nicer. I wouldn't know anything, you know.
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Because I would be lost, you know. You know like when you born and raised in those
ghettos and boroughs and all that stuff like New York, and you know Detroit, st. Louis and
you know you hear all that stuff didn't you? Chicago, Milwaukee, you know. I mean like I
say you know we had Black Panthers and you know people getting shot. You know Fred
Hampton. Jr. You know, Senior River. You know got shot. You know by the police, and he
dived on top of the Caucasian woman and she was eight and a half months pregnant,
and they was like, oh we laid there and he laid there, and he it's a woman under him, and
she's pregnant and the sun came out. He started doing the same thing as his daddy did.
So you know my mom worked over there at the post office. So you know me and my
brother seems to take us to see certain things you know. I was a real experience. Like I say
you know, Chicago, Illinois, and you know they're killing like water right now, you know
and the day, I just read something in the paper about Baltimore County, and it's you know
this lady they shot this lady and they shot her son and they gave her three, they gave her
family 3 million dollars, and now that's what they do when they you know do things like
that, when they wrongful death. You know things like that lady didn't have no weapon or
thing like that. That's how they are, I saw police is they all they know, is you know, shoot to
kill. Just like the young man in Chicago, McDonald, they shot him 16 times and he had a
fingernail clip. You know running and turned in this way, and they just shot him anyway
like that they thought that was a weapon. That's what they that's what they say. You know
so his family got the money, but he not here with us. You know what number 16 years old,
you know so.
Kathleen Clark 05:59
So. Yeah, so you mentioned your brother, is your brother still in Chicago? Or where's your
brother at, no?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 06:05
Yeah, he’s still in Chicago.
Kathleen Clark 06:07
So do you still keep in touch with him?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 06:10
Yeah, every blue moon. I don’t have a phone no more. And I don’t call nobody and so they
probably like, what’s all wrong with him. He ain’t call, he ain’t dead. We don’t have pay
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
phones or nothing. That's why I'm haven’t called, I’m not gonna ask nobody could I use
their phone, I'm too ivory for that. I’d rather have my own.
Kathleen Clark 06:34
So how did you end up here in Minnesota?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 06:36
Oh Lord, have mercy. You’re not going to believe this… I met a woman on 74 Hampton,
Ashman, on the south side of Chicago, and she told me that she lived up here in
Minneapolis and she asked me would I come and see it. I said yeah. You know, I say yeah.
And I came on up, and it was freezing when I got off the Greyhound it was freezing I had
they're kind of cold in my life. I thought Chicago was cold but this was cold. I couldn't
believe it. And then the, and you know, it fizzled on out, you see, she went her way and I
went mine. We couldn't get along, so you know. What can you say those things? That's the
way to go? That's the way it goes? You know you can't sit back and cry. Cuz it's plenty fish
in the sea.
Kathleen Clark 07:35
What year was that?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 07:37
Oh, Lord have mercy man had to be about 84 A ny 8383 84. Yeah, cuz I came up in a fact.
Kathleen Clark 07:50
And, and then did you end up having kids with her, or?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 07:54
No, we didn't get a chance to do none of that. You know she was a different kind of
person you know. But ahhh, she was just…she was one of those with the light switches,
they just flick on and off, you know, you say something, do something different you know
so now we can do nothing like that, we just fell out, I just hit the streets, after that. She was
talking just like that….You know to get out the house. And I, she was talking you know like
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
that, you get out of the house. Oh here, we go and I didn't know it was a one mistake. You
know and I didn't know that see I found out the hard way.
Kathleen Clark 08:40
So you have you been living on the streets ever since you guys broke up?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 08:45
Yeah, pretty much very since.
Kathleen Clark 08:47
And how long has that been?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 08:51
Oh, lets see…..84. No, 86. Yeah 86 yeah, 86 yeah – I been out here since 86.
Kathleen Clark 09:14
So as far as what has been your biggest barrier to get housing?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 09:18
Ahhh…..well, I could have had it, I mean I'm it was there for me, but I didn't want it a lot of
stipulations they had and I didn't appreciate, especially you telling much you can't have
no company. You know and then you know you're taking money out of my check. And
then you know leaving me with, you know, half of the, you know, the 203. Then you know I
keep my stamps and….What else? Oh, 96 cash in my pocket. And then you get a place to
stay you know, where you can cook, sleep…. You know all that, but like I said, I didn't, I
didn't, I didn't appreciate it. You know because the area's. You know this way south and
north and east and you know northeast, you know northeast is a real nice neighborhood.
It’s a real nice neighborhood. But I didn't want to be around where all that gunfire and you
know that kind of stuff cuz that was Southside in Northside. It was killing each other, you
know, back in the day. We just have block parties on Ocean Highway in the summer, you
know. Where we would, you know. Entertain yourself, you know. See music acts and things
like that, you know. So like, I'll say you know, I noticed that it just went by all these years,
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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and I can't even believe that…. I've been up here 36 years. That's a long time to be in one
spot. 36 years, me and my partner we counted the years and came over 36. I've been
living out here for 36 years.
Kathleen Clark 11:18
That is…..
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 11:22
In the street….. You know before when we parted ways, then I was able to you know find a
job get a place to stay so you know. So I had, I had a couple of apartments and then after
that I decided to go back home. That's why it's only 36 years, because I went home from
one year, but then I came right back. You know, so I was…I was, why did I come here?
People is dying around here. You know but people like dyin’ and so…..But you know over
there on the south side they just out of control. Especially, and they still haven't found out
about, when is he gonna prosecute for killing that our lady from Switzerland that was
getting ready to marry oh. Uh, oh yeah, they do Freeman he ain't even prosecuted today.
He still ain’t even prosecuted today. Wow.
Kathleen Clark 12:15
And it’s been awhile.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 12:18
Yeah, and some years. Like two years. So, like I say, it’s turned in to a dangerous city,
sitting here.
Kathleen Clark 12:18
Yeah. So, as far as you know apartments and all that I know you've had a lot of issues with
getting disability. What has been –
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 12:19
Yeah..
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Kathleen Clark 12:19
Well, what has been your issues with all that?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 12:19
I am still going through the changes, ya know. Like you know, they represented me,
greenline and then you know, they you know, they denied me again, and then I'm like
anyone to tell me tell me why you didn't tell me, uh, that your knee was bothering you and
your, it’s been…it’s been diagnosed, been on paper. I don't have to keep saying that.
Kathleen Clark 12:37
So as far as you know, apartments and all that I know, you've had a lot of issues with
getting disability. What has been around that? Oh,
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 12:47
I'm still going through the changes, man. Like I say, the to the agreement. They, they
represented me and then they you know, they denied me again. And then I'm like, they
didn't want to tell me tell me why you didn't tell me that. Your knee was bogging. It's been
it's been what's become diagnosis been on paper. I don't have to keep saying that.
Kathleen Clark 13:15
So basically, because there was like a discrepancy in your reporting. They dismissed it.
Yeah, they
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 13:21
Yeah, they denied me again. You know and now I'm still dealing with some other people,
who they, ahhhh? Love that, you know….. no you know and you know, like I've seen the
other day with the ponytail him. Like yeah, like what’s up with the ponytails, yeah. Yo,
what's up Mr. Calvin like yeah, right okay? So he's doing something different. He argued
against, you know. What the other doctor, yeah know what I found out at the end. The
doctor was doing his residency on me and I didn't appreciate that.
Kathleen Clark 14:00
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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Yeah
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 14:01
I wanted a doctor. That's been around the block. Not nobody that's doing a register going
to school on me and you know that's what he did because he sent me a letter in the mail
and I read and then I was furious. I was furious, I mean tell me, this y'all gave me this
person, that do a residency? On a human being and then when they left. I say, listen here I
don't want no residency, I want to put, on a doctor that's been around the block that
knows what he's doing. I just, I don't know. I just don’t wanna accept that no more, I didn’t
know he was doing that. See, and there was no way for me to find out because I was kind
of healed back then. You know, but that's what made him late and put me on you know.
And he put me on GA. You know all that stuff, and then I was sick, you know walking back
and forth in the weather. Oh, what's properly dressed, what's properly dressed….You
know…. and half coats and all that had this and that but just being out on the street, then
you know. When you're out of the street you go in the skyway. They don't want you in the
skyway. You know then they don't want you in there IDS Building downstairs, where
everybody else be at. Maybe talkin’ thirty minutes…and you can't be sleeping… and you
know. All this, all this, you know…. mumbo jumbo stuff. You know I understand you have
rules you know. But when you have rules, you got to make sure you, you know, you aby by
them. You know that's the way they're gonna be. They don't change up, you know so yeah,
and then the housing part. They ain’t trying to give us no house. I have a friend, I have a
partner, he lives in a housing building. He worked at the United, he worked at the airlines
for all them years. Do you know, they found out, he have a pension and they trying to
take that? And he living in a housing build and paying 650 a month? 650 a month. He in a
house building and they trying to take his pension and he trying to get with people,
lawyers, and all them. And I just told him, you just get your studio. You don't need no, big
one bedroom apartment. You don’t need that, it’s just you. You ain’t married. You ain’t
married, you know. And they just trying to take his pension, you know. And he work all
them years….. and you trying to take his pension, just like my other friends. They, they was
married, but they was out on the street and his wife was in the wheelchair, he use to push
her. Do you know, that it took them so many years, just to get a place? And then they was
talkin about.. their pension was too big. To Big. Ohhh, because they made big money they
were nice big places and they made big money see so he was there for like thirty and forty
years, so you know. That's why I didn't want to take their pension. I'm like tell me oh man
y'all make too much. Y'all you got a pension and all. And he's like what? I can't get a place
for me and my wife, we out here in the street. Yeah, and then you know housing over there
on Plymouth they don't do nothing. They don't they do some every once in a while, they
open it up and say oh, yeah, we got housing. You know things like that and then they're
close, you know. But like I said dang…. You know Minneapolis is just it's all about this and
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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see the reason why some of us all about this, is because they're bringing more citizens
from other places. See and that's what's making the money grow and then they you know
you've got to go out here and search to find places to stay. You know and then when they
want to look at your record and your felonies and all this stuff. You know it should be man.
Oh, man. I need to get up street. It's freezing out here. We're walking around outside in the
cold, you know I see you come through the skywalk and that’s the first thing they’ll say.
You know, they’ll let you stand in front of the Target downstairs and let you in the lobby
and just sit there, watch, yeah, so you know. Those the things that we are up against.
Kathleen Clark 19:00
So, during a typical night. Where do you usually stay?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 19:04
Oh, well I ride the lightrail. That’s what I do. You know, get on at midnight and get off at
six.
Kathleen Clark 19:13
And what are the rules on that for you?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 19:16
Oh. Well, they say we can ride it after midnight, but you know things change, you know
because us citizens, we break the rules and see. And see, I stand back, I wait to midnight,
you know, and then I on. And get off at six. You know, and they say we can do that, but
see things change. Things change, people do what they want to do. You know, so you
know that.
Kathleen Clark 19:46
So, do you have to like sit up? Can you lay down on the lightrail? Or?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 19:51
Oh no, but they lay down and sleep anyway because the police don't come in there. You
know, like he used to. He used to come on there and check for fares, and all that stuff. But
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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uh they don't do that no more.
Kathleen Clark 20:07
Interesting.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 20:31
Well, they just want to make sure, you know, that you make sure you have your fare, and
you honest. And a lot of us is not, you know, so just. I just do the best I can. Yeah, with what
I have.Yeah, well, 36 years of the cold weather. That's a long time.
Kathleen Clark 20:40
Yeah, right.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 20:49
Yeah, so I'm trying to go some way anyway. You know, go some where warm, ya know.
Yeah, I’m tired of this cold weather.
Kathleen Clark 21:19
Yeah, well thirty-six years of the cold weather.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 21:19
Yeah.
Kathleen Clark 21:19
Yeah, that’s a long time.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 21:19
That’s a long time and I thought Chicago was cold. Yeah, I’m like wait a minute here. I
never felt this type of cold. (Laughing) ‘67 blizzard, we had in Chicago, back in 67. When
we was kids, playing in the snow and it was freezing there, back then, like I say, I will. Yes,
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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that’s the way it is. Everybody outs to get each other. You know, like everybody’s trying to
help each other.
Kathleen Clark 21:19
Well, I know. I….
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 21:19
Everybody for themselves right now.
Kathleen Clark 21:19
I feel like you're one of those people though, who is always looking out for everybody. Like
you're always reporting on who needs some attention and what’s going on…..
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 21:21
I know, a lot of people. A lot of people ask me a lot of things. No, so you know, I got a lot. I
love knowledge on me. You know that comes from my dad, you know. He's like that three
papers and all that stuff, you know and then I started doing it. And you know the rest is
history. You know, but like I say, you know. I, I try to need to focus more me than anything
else, you know. But like I say, already made my mind up. It's time for me to move on, you
know 36 years a long time. I didn't think I would be here that long, I really didn’t. I really
didn’t.
Kathleen Clark 22:01
So, how did you first hear about the Health Commons or the nurses here at Central?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 22:06
Well, everybody was talking about it. I didn’t know where it was at, I didn’t know where it
was at. I was talking about it and moving and walking, and then and follow this crowd and
see. You know and I finally found it and I don’t know if I came in and talked to you or if I. Is
this suppose to be? Remember that? I think I said something about it. No, about it no, but
like I say when I seen it. You know, I like nice clothes, you know. You know, you get your, get
toiletries and get your feet done. You know cuz I never take my shoes off, ever. Yeah, back
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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then I never do. You know, right now, I get some lotion, you know, and then my foot
cream. I'll put that on when I get a chance. They don't want you to be, you know putting
that on, like when you go over there to uh…..What's that, uh? MCC. You know, but I wait
until everybody leave and then I go in there and put the cream on and then I wash up and
you know, and some, yeah some young lady got raped over there. Yeah. Oh no. I followed
her in the bathroom and they came under the stall.
Kathleen Clark 24:40
Uhhh?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 24:40
Yeah, and then she was in there, hollering some brother and somebody else from Safety
grabbed him. That was what…. a couple of weeks ago and then.
Kathleen Clark 24:48
Oh no.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 24:49
Yeah, then I was, I was in the afternoon, one o'clock in the afternoon and class was going.
My class was going, my classes was going. Class was…... Yeah, you know. Like….it’s…..I
don’t know. It changed over the years. Things had changed, you know there's different
people now. It's not like the way it was when we were younger. You know, we older now.
You know when you see was coming in here the young generation, younger than us. And
we probably no good to them Yeah.
Kathleen Clark 24:49
Wow. I'm sorry to hear that. Well, as far as the Health Commons goes. Ummmm, do you
feel like people feel welcomed, when they come into the Health Commons?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 24:59
Yeah, they looking forward to seeing everybody. And we got a place we can go and get
this and that. And get our feet done. Since we don't have no water, you know, but like I say
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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you can go and get toiletries and you can get snacks if they have a mouth (??) or you
know, whatever the case may be, yeah. You see how many people come in here.
Kathleen Clark 25:27
Yeah. Yeah.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 25:27
You could look. You can stand. You can sit right here and look out that window see how
many people standing outside. That I tell you right there that this has been expanding.
You know, and it's getting larger and as large. That's why when they came more than not
to build and now they came up with the trailer.
Kathleen Clark 25:53
Yeah.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 25:54
Now you're gonna need more space.
Kathleen Clark 25:56
Yeah, yeah. And hopefully we'll have it in our new building when it comes.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 26:00
Yeah,yeah.
Kathleen Clark 26:02
So speaking of that building, is there anything in that space that you think we should have
available? Or do differently when we're in that space?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 26:14
Well, you'll need a phone. Um well, you’ll need a phone, well no, cause everybody has a
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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phone.
Kathleen Clark 26:18
Okay.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 26:19
So you don't really need that. So run it by me one more time?
Kathleen Clark 26:23
Well, I'm just trying to plan for the new space and thinking about what, what, what could
be needed or what we could do better. Once we're in that space. Obviously, we have
some constraints around not having water for footcare and things like that here
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 26:37
Yeah, well we got that.
Kathleen Clark 26:40
yes.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 26:40
Yeah, my feet is still bad, right now.
Kathleen Clark 26:44
So I'm just trying to think of something that we don't offer now, that we could offer there
that might be different?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 26:51
Well, make sure we have a large room where we can do all that foot care and make sure
we can make a positive out of it, you know make sure you'll be doing it right and you know
me, make everybody comfortable with it. You know be saying. Thank you, and you know
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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God bless you. We appreciate it. See you next time…you know we gotta cut down, we
gotta cut down on their language too.
Kathleen Clark 27:19
Sure.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 27:20
Yeah. You know really out of pocket now these days. You know we don't know how to talk
to each other and see if you're gonna do all that…yeah, there’s the door. Do that all
outside.
Kathleen Clark 27:32
Make sure we have strict rules around.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 27:34
Just like you got a kids, and somebody else got kids and they don't need to hear none of
that.
Kathleen Clark 27:40
Yeah
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 27:40
No, they don’t need to hear none of that.
Kathleen Clark 27:43
There's lots of different health focused clinics or drop in centers. So is there something that
we do different compared to other places that are health focused?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 27:53
Yes, I don't know any other places that do what you do, you know. When we get up we
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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know certain days. We're coming to see you because you're giving up the foot care. You're
giving up to toiletries. You know, so those are things that we really need. You know it's just
fort…, it's just fortunate that it's only twice a week, so.
Kathleen Clark 28:23
So maybe we if we are open more, that would be better.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 28:26
Yeah, that would be good. No, because Because you see, you see it growing? I mean, you
could just look out the window and see that. I remember when it wasn't that many. Yeah. I
remember when they was in in a chap in a church. And the clothing room was over there.
Kathleen Clark 28:46
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 28:47
You know, we’d all be in line to get the clothes and then we build in a toiletry room. Get
enough foot care. You know so same way I'd like to talk to my man when he interviewed
me, you know.
Kathleen Clark 29:03
For MPR?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 29:04
Yea, the one that had the camera. Yeah, but like I say, it needs space. Space yeah, you
need space, and if you could have one of these to yourself. Then you will be okay, cause
ya see, then you can be doing one, two, three. You know.
Kathleen Clark 29:27
Sure.
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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L
Lee Anthony Cosby 29:35
So everybody can be you know. Getting something done.
Kathleen Clark 29:40
So would you say the main reason you come back is for the toiletry items or what's the
main reason you keep coming back.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 29:46
There's not just a toiletries, I mean, I noticed places very, very positive. is very comfortable
to me. It is you know, I don't try to be yelled at customers and you know, that's Let me now
do that out there. Yeah. No in here. No, there's not. No, but like I say, you know, we love.
Wow, I'm gonna say I love coming back every Monday, Thursday, you know, because I
know, I'm gonna get my feet taken care. You know, and I know you're gonna give some
things that we need, like scarves and gloves and coats or whatever the case may be sure,
just like they gave us a Super Bowl coat. So like I say, you know, your concern. That's the
key. You're concerned about us health. And no annual lovely being. To me. No, I like to see
when, when your girls get a little bigger, how they gonna react when they start running
around, you know, looking at who is all these people here? Yeah, but like I say, you know,
I'll be looking for. I mean, everything, you know, Monday, Thursday, I know, them the days
to get here. You know, like I say, it took me a long time to play. I didn't know, you know,
where I was at. And then, you know, I didn't know let's keep talking about the church man,
the church and my church. Like whatever it is they talking about? And then I just stopped
following the crap. Oh, okay. Like I say, Yeah, I weights up to that. I'd be like, Oh, yeah, I
got two days. But like I say, you know, if we had, you know, more than two, you know,
somebody else can do that, too. But, you know, you got to get a bigger place to Spain. So,
my, like I say, yeah, I mean, you guys know, cuz I know, my feet are still bad, but they
could be worse where my book and say, Yo, man, we got to cut them off.
Kathleen Clark 32:07
Yeah, that's true.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 32:09
Like you say, you know, I been putting that cream on that. But you know, I don’t have no
place, so I got a sneak and put it on, in in the community college and all that.
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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Kathleen Clark 32:20
Yeah.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 32:20
he did it one time I had had it on at any one person. I'm a magnet for just soon. I'm like,
man, ain't nobody even here. This is a Saturday. Yeah. Oh, man. This is a dining. Oh, there
we go. See my partner works over there. So because even another one I was working. I
used to work at a site. What does that? Say? What? No, trying to figure out what is it
saying? Hey, man, and we got real tight. Because he works over there. St. Augusta....St.
Thomas.
Kathleen Clark 33:11
St. Thomas. Oh yeah, sure.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 33:14
Being there we got, he's befriended me, you know. And now we've been been friends for a
long time. Yeah. His name is Randy, he got a kid. You know. So, there is another one who
use to work there with him, Marv. He works over there, at MCC now. LC: Cause he say,
they have better ah, better benefits, then at the same time, that’s why he left.
Kathleen Clark 33:22
That's great. So as far as nurses who are caring for people who are, you know, maybe
experiencing homelessness or who are marginally housed, what what should nurses know
when they're caring for somebody in in the hospital or in a clinic, when caring for
somebody who might be you know, living outside or in shelter?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 34:07
Yeah, living outside, living in a sky way….they be everywhere.
Kathleen Clark 34:12
Yeah.
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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L
Lee Anthony Cosby 34:13
They don’t care, they be living in a sky way. you can go underground and then be sleep
over there.
Kathleen Clark 34:13
Wow.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 34:19
And I be like I believe, but that's what they do.
Kathleen Clark 34:26
Well, I would think I sometimes have heard that people who are often people who come to
the health comments when they're seen like in the ER, like over at HCMC that, that they're
maybe not as cordial or pleasant? And so why do you think people do you think people
feel stereotyped or judged when they're going to the ER or what do you what do you think
that's about?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 34:51
Well….ah, no. I don't think about them being stereotyped or you know, not judge. Yeah
but I mean, you know, probably the reason why they're being judged, because they don't
do what they supposed to do.
Kathleen Clark 35:03
Sure.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 35:03
And let's take care of yourself.
Kathleen Clark 35:05
Yeah.
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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L
Lee Anthony Cosby 35:06
You know. They just get irritable and you know, they just let everything go. You know, you
say something to a person, then they might just wanna snap your head…. you know
because he come in a certain way. You know, but….Like I say. You gotta take care of
yourself, you know.
Kathleen Clark 35:24
Yeah You an adult. You not a kid. Mommy and daddy don’t care of you no more, so you.
So, to do that, so you gotta remember, that you have to maintain that, in here. And that’s
a lot of us, it’s a lot of us, we gotta remember..…you drinking and drugging and you gotta
remember that…And we're thinking those things making us feel good, but you know,
they’re not. They're killing us, slowly. Yeah.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 35:50
Yeah, so we don’t look at that. We just use to livin’ any kind of way. You know, so ahhh….It
took me a while to figure it out.
Kathleen Clark 36:01
So what do you feel like you need to be healthy?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 36:07
For me to be healthy?
Kathleen Clark 36:08
Yeah.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 36:10
I think for me to be healthy, it's going into another city.
Kathleen Clark 36:14
Some time, to leave….
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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L
Lee Anthony Cosby 36:14
We just have to go somewhere where it's warm. You know, where I can, you know, wear t
shirts and put them in your pocket. Instead of coming out and get tho those in your
pocket. To keep running back and forth. Back and forth.
Kathleen Clark 36:37
Yeah, it's Freddie.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 36:38
Yeah, that's what I say.
Kathleen Clark 36:41
Yeah, there’s somebody who keeps coming in to get bus cards. Parking passes.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 36:46
Yeah.
Kathleen Clark 36:46
Do you just wanna put them in your pocket, Freddie? Oh, sorry. We’re in Freddie's office
cause my room, somebody was in my room.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 37:02
Really?
Kathleen Clark 37:03
They were....We're almost done, anyhow.
F
Freddy (security) 37:09
If we can change his was, I'd appreicate that.
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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L
Lee Anthony Cosby 37:17
That’s my big brother right there. You know, always telling me what I need to do…
(laughing) And cause…because he did it the right way, because I did it the wrong way. I
did it the different way all my day and all that….so yeah, like I say, you know. That was,
you know, that would be, you know, like I say. I don't know because I think this is all about
getting what I can get, keep on moving and go to the next spot and you know, I don't
think they have any hard….. You know far as you know cuz what’ll come out of their
mouth is all nicotine. (mumbling) Don't believe they have that, so you know, they lost…
so…That's right, that's right, you know make it any better there, just go the way they go.
Kathleen Clark 38:30
Well, as far as about the health commons, I think I asked most of my questions, but is
there something you want to add that I haven't asked? Or in general?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 38:42
No, but like I said, I wish you’d get a bigger place. And a whole lotta nurses, so they can
just go down the line. And me sittin’ over there waiting cause……but like I said, I'm gonna
try and get out here because I don't think I'm gonna be in no more than another year. I
been saving some money, and I saving some money….
Kathleen Clark 39:08
Well, and I mean, even talking about that for a while.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 39:11
Yeah, but we gotta save our money too. I can do something with that. I got 740-something
or something.
Kathleen Clark 39:24
we would be super sad to see you leave but also really healthy and
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 39:29
Well, I keep saying that, you know, I am so glad I see you. I didn’t even know where you
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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was at. What, they keep saying….’oh it’s over here…’ you know that, oh this is it…ohhhh…
TV room, you know what they was doing in there. Cussing and drinking, and it was, that’s
probably what made Red leave. Because he told me, it was time.
Kathleen Clark 39:59
Yeah. And then somebody gave him more money, so he was gone, you know. So like I say,
you know. That's annoying and then, you know, damn. You know, you gotta put movies in
there for people to watch. Yeah.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 40:14
Then everybody wanna fight over the movies and the cussing and drinking and they don't,
you know drunk early in the morning, you know. That's, that's what probably, what ran him
away. And I didn't get his number before he left.
Kathleen Clark 40:31
Well, is there any…. oh? Freddie has it…. he's right there. Yeah. That's okay. Ummm, as far
as. (coughing) Ummmm. Yeah, just trying to think what I was gonna say. Yeah, so as far as
people who are experiencing homelessness if you had to say one thing that they need,
can you can you think of one thing, that if we were to work on what would that be?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 41:05
They would need this place here. I know that. So they can least try to slow down their
lifestyle because when you drinking and drugging, and you're sleeping outside, you're
going to die.
Kathleen Clark 41:23
That's true
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 41:25
Then there’s an (mumbling) in your …then your outside. (coughing) Oh, then just getting
somebody too….I don’t know if it’s tutor? Or some kind of class like, another class. It could
be a class be similar to what Pastor Melissa did, when we start having these uh? These
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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meetings on 3rd Street places.
Kathleen Clark 41:56
Street Voices of Change.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 41:57
Yeah. Do something like that everybody's gonna be a part of. It won't be about the whole,
what it does and even so many people that can take care of feet and someone else can
do some nails, a bigger place, where you can move around, you know, walking in, you
know without bumping into each other, things like that. Yeah, something like that doesn't
you know then….They go get it, you know, would be a little more. You know how would
you see that how would you? How would I say that? You know follow them you know going
to get something, and they know it's for them. You know, they need they need it, you know
because the doctor told you ‘A man, if you keep drinkin, you're gonna die.’ You know, you
know. You got to make sure you got clothes. If your feet is bothering you, you gotta get
them checked and you know things like that, you know. Like I say. We gotta control. It's
not just the elements and you know the people I mean. The lawmakers you know I've been
up there on Capitol Hill last year, and I didn't go this time. I wasn’t dealin’ with that. You
know, because it was like an animal house. When we went the first, last year and I was
doing and I was like oh no, I can't do this. You know there's just too many people. You know
I'm like how you gonna get something done. Yeah with all these people so I was like damn
I'm done that was my last time, first and last so. Like I said now really made my mind up of
what I want to do. I'm going I'm gonna go somewhere where it's warm. I don't have
problems or anything I gonna wear shorts and t-shirts and sandals or whatever the case
may be but I'm not gonna be freezing. But like I say and I probably have to go somewhere
to like a manicure, for the feet or whatever. But they don't have that, you know, but I'm
pretty sure they should have that because women love big toes and stuff done. You know
like deals and….Yeah, I used to pay for that, when I was dealing with a woman. Lord have
mercy. I got to sit up with them women. And your toes done. Oh man, and I'll be able to
sleep. (laughing) It's time to go, you finished? Now finally…. Yeah. Yeah, but this was like I
say it’s been a godsend. Oh, I really appreciate it is. I was shocking you know, how it could,
it did a little. That's there’s something better, less something you know, to help out a little
bit. You know and like I said we got to you know, we got to kill that language, you know,
especially when you bring in the kids…. You know.
Kathleen Clark 45:17
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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Sure.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 45:18
You don’t want your kids to hear that. We can't just leave our kids, out in all
this…..cause….this is ….out of control. we have to take a whiz the first thing is anyway.
You don't want to… We'll have to work on that for sure. Yeah. We can’t just leave our kids,
we gotta take ‘em with us. You know. The first thing they say…. (mumbling)You know, so
you don’t have no choice. You know, so that’s basically it. You know. I sure do appreciate
your kindness.
Kathleen Clark 45:57
Thank you so much, and thank you for taking time to do this so that's all the questions I
have.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 46:02
That's all, not the same, you don't know.. what they are you know. We’d be lost. That’s the
truth. It’s a good thing, we have Mary Jo's, you know the Dorothy Day…you don’t know
what there are. Dorothy Day, they let you sleep on mats in there. Mary Jo, she's feed you
two times a day. You know and give you…Tokens…..Money. You know. Like I say, they just
be, you know feeding up on that. You know. Like getting that like that's water. You know
we drinking it out of the faucet. Yeah, you know so it's just so you know, some of us out
here, is real but majority of us is not. So you have to be able to weed out the bad from the
good….
Kathleen Clark 46:58
And you’re definitely one of the good. Thank You LA.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 47:02
You welcome.
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
Page 25
2018
of 25
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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