Oral History with Bashiru Kormah (2022)
Wed, 3/30 4:06PM
16:24
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, professional, citizen, work, experiences, civic, vocation, learn, graduated, peace corps,
civic leadership, conversation, opportunity, question, classes, community, deep, banyan, university,
higher ... Show more
Oral History with Bashiru Kormah (2022)
Wed, 3/30 4:06PM
16:24
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, professional, citizen, work, experiences, civic, vocation, learn, graduated, peace corps,
civic leadership, conversation, opportunity, question, classes, community, deep, banyan, university,
higher ed
SPEAKERS
Katie Clark, Bashiru Kormah
Katie Clark 00:04
Thank you so much for participating in this oral history project with Augsburg University, and
the Kettering Foundation exploring the concept of the citizen professional and higher ed. My
name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of nursing and the executive director of the
Augsburg Health Commons. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording?
B
Bashiru Kormah 00:26
My name BK Kormah, an alum of Augsburg University.
Katie Clark 00:31
Great. So before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you give consent to be
interviewed and having that interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made
available to the public.
B
Bashiru Kormah 00:44
Yes, that's fine.
Katie Clark 00:46
So when did you graduate from Augsburg University?
B
Bashiru Kormah 00:50
B
Bashiru Kormah 00:50
I graduated in 2019.
Katie Clark 00:53
Can you tell me a little bit about your educational background and what you're currently
studying in your graduate degree?
B
Bashiru Kormah 01:01
I graduated from Osseo Senior High School. And then I went to Augsburg for my undergrad and
got my degree in International Relations and International Business. Graduated as the
university president in my junior year. So that was exciting. And then currently getting my
graduate degree in Sustainable International Development at Brandeis University in
Massachusetts.
Katie Clark 01:32
Wow. Great. So asking you to think back at your time at Augsburg were there concepts of the
citizen professional, civic engagement, civic leadership, or civic skills that were discussed in
any of your classes or programs? And if so, which ones, if you remember?
B
Bashiru Kormah 01:53
Yes. So I remember the LEAD Fellow Program. I'm also remember there were several
conversations I think with Dennis, I'm not sure of his name.
Katie Clark 02:06
Dennis Donovan.
B
Bashiru Kormah 02:07
Yes. Regarding that citizen, professional, and also had leadership classes. I was also leadership
minor with Professor Elaine, and I'm forgetting the other professors name,
Katie Clark 02:22
Eschenbacher.
B
Bashiru Kormah 02:24
Yes. So that so that that conversation was came up often in leadership classes.
Yes. So that so that that conversation was came up often in leadership classes.
Katie Clark 02:34
Wonderful. So which of those experiences really stand out as being meaningful opportunities to
learn, reflect and integrate lessons across coursework and community engaged learning?
B
Bashiru Kormah 02:49
Definitely the LEAD Fellows Program, because it was, it was very intentional with the trainings.
And then with every other all of the students have in your program. We had the same
conversation, and then we go out into the fields do our work together, discuss, learn more. So
that program specifically believe on did a good job of targeting that goal.
Katie Clark 03:14
Do you remember where your field placement was at?
B
Bashiru Kormah 03:18
Yeah, gotta never forget, I'm still in contact with them, Banyan Community, that's where my,
my placement was, and I still have a very, very good and extensive relationship with those
folks. Even after I graduated from Augsburg, I was still there working with them, and they often
do recommendations for me. So yeah, it was Banyan Community.
Katie Clark 03:41
So did you feel like some of those LEAD Fellow experiences spoke to your coursework when you
were at Augsburg? Or did it feel somewhat disconnected?
B
Bashiru Kormah 03:53
I think it is just the field of my studies. I was in international relations, international business,
and then being a leadership minor. So he just is really integrated really, really well. So I would
say a good connected. Excellent.
Katie Clark 04:09
So in what ways, if any, did the civic learning experiences while you were at Augsburg prepare
you for your professional role or your opportunities for civic leadership?
B
Bashiru Kormah 04:24
B
Bashiru Kormah 04:24
Yeah, like it prepared me really well, because right after that experience, I went directly into
the Peace Corps right after college. So I think I'll just paid attention and see, and this
conversation (about citizen professional) was just so deep in the guests because they were
coming. So I was like, you know, I think this would be great. So just really, you know, like, just
just concept I'm really wanting to learn more and dive more into it into really, really do similar
work.
Katie Clark 04:55
So do you feel like your experiences in the field were really what shaped your experiences
moving forward? Or would you say some of the presentations in by Dennis Donovan or Elaine
Eschenbacher, or that you mentioned? Did they really prepare you for post graduation life?
B
Bashiru Kormah 05:18
I would say it was called it was a collective experience I really helped shape my direction for,
you know, after graduation, you know, just being a part of the program. And then working with
other extremely gifted folks who are very passionate about doing work in the community. And
that's one conversation that we had with with Dennis, it's conversation, where we have some
high school students came into, and it was a very deep conversation. So this thing, just really
had me hungry, I guess, for more. And that's how I decided going to the Peace Corps today to
carry on similar work and be able to apply those leadership skills that I learned, you know, it
does, it does work, it's very awesome, you know, to be able to incorporate it into the work I had
to do. I felt very well equipped for the Peace Corps.
Katie Clark 06:16
Well, and so I'm, I'm just curious, given, you know, your extensive involvement in such
activities as the Peace Corps and being the president of the student body and all that. Were
you like that in high school as well? Are you just, is that just kind of how you, you know, you
always been or do you feel like Augsburg gave you different opportunities to develop those
skills in different ways?
B
Bashiru Kormah 06:46
Yeah, I think in high school, the only thing I did pretty much in high school was soccer, and the
Brooklyn Youth Council, like, which was a youth group that represented the youth within our
cities for living in Brooklyn Park and Brooklyn Center. So those are the two main activities I did.
And then, and then won the Act Six scholarship, and also, there was a lot that was similar to the
work, to see where you can do additional work as well. So coming to Augsburg really exploded
that, like I had an idea, but then just being a part of these programs, really, you know, exposed
it. Then working with Elaine, and I got nominated for the Newman Civic Fellow. So that really,
really, you know, that was a burst that I felt like I could soar.
Katie Clark 07:35
That's amazing. And I remember your name, I think you spoke at a an event.
B
Bashiru Kormah 07:39
Yep. Yep. Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
Katie Clark 07:42
Excellent. Well, have you been able to use your civic learning and community? Some of these
are a little bit redundant, but they're on purpose. So we're kind of asking the question in
different ways to maybe just kind of, for things a little more, but have you been able to use
your civic learning or community engagement experiences to affect decision making or be an
agent of change as a professional?
B
Bashiru Kormah 08:03
Yes, so currently, I'm the youth director on the board for Brooklyn Park and Brooklyn Center. So
that work is, I'm able to take those experiences especially going to do some leadership, and
especially in the leadership course, courses, working with different folks. And then with the,
with the citizen professional, that was just so powerful for those conversation, even how nurses
you know, use their skills. It was it was deep. So like, for me, it just, it just kind of opened my
mind said that no matter what career I go into, have the opportunity to, you know, to be an
agent of change, regardless of if I'm in a position of power or not.
Katie Clark 08:57
Great. What connections if any, do you see among your professional identity, your vocation and
civic leadership?
B
Bashiru Kormah 09:07
Oh, I see that as a deep one. So vocation, Augsburg, man, I just got me reminiscent of
freshman year. What's your vocation? What's your vocation? (laugh). So with that, I think just
the fact that my, my vocation has always been on doing development work, and it just fits in so
well with civic engagement. And just like this overall umbrella was citizen professional, so it's
like, so it all goes well together, you know, so I can see that. But even though my, my, my my
career path has shifted, because now you know, finance now - who would have thought? But
still, it's you know, I'm working from home too, you know, but I also help with this conflict
resolution, some of these things that we discuss, often, we always have been our work, you
know, there, there's always, you know, these things happen. But it's also awesome that these
skills, you know, to be incorporated into my, my professional life, and then knowing that this
also working on my vocation as well. Which is to do more development work internationally, or
wherever God leads me.
Katie Clark 10:34
I think I need to circle back in a few years and redo this to see where you're at. Do you see
yourself as a civic or citizen professional? If so, how do you describe that or explain it to others,
even if you don't use that specific term, like, do you see yourself as a citizen or citizen
professional?
B
Bashiru Kormah 10:55
I see myself as a citizen professional. And that's something, is funny, because I was I was
ordained as pastor actually, honestly. And, and something I share with a folks, I was like, when
I, when I'm blessed, and I'm the General Overseer of my own church, I would create this, this
citizen professional culture, where you don't want to have to be within the church setting for
you to you know, be seen as doing God's work, you know, you can be you know, that citizen
professional mindset. And this to me, what it is, is you can be in any career field, but you can
still be an agent of change, and being a voice for the voiceless. And then incorporating that into
a church setting where you don't really have to be, you know, a pastor or deacon, you know,
you can just be whatever, you could be a doctor, and you will still be doing God's work by being
a citizen professional within your career, but being a good steward in your community and with
your client. So I don't have a specific as a definition of it, but I just have this idea in my head of
what it means to be a citizen professional, which is within your respective field, being an agent
of change, and still doing work that other other people are doing for your intention.
Katie Clark 12:25
That's great. Thank you. Um, so here's the question, and you can be completely honest. Is
there anything that you wish you learned during your time at Augsburg that you didn't?
B
Bashiru Kormah 12:39
I wish like that, that term is something that always stuck with me. But I wish there was like this
class 101 on how to answer that question. "What is a citizen professional?" But the discussion I
think, is good. Like, I have this idea in my head like, this dream of, you know, having my own
church and using that model or the method, right, but I just don't know enough of it. You know,
so be like something I wish we really, we really dissected. So if you have any info, Katie, please
send it my way.
Katie Clark 13:14
The other, the last question really is, do you have anything that you want to share with us that I
haven't asked?
B
Bashiru Kormah 13:23
Yeah, I mean, like, that entire thing was great. To be honest. Like, the citizen professional, it
was like a movement, a huge movement. But maybe it was during my term, I feel like it didn't
have a lot of buzz. You know? So, um, something I wish is, it was it was very intentional, it was
integrated with all of the curriculum. Or that it was at least, even if it was just a required
course, or it was embedded in required courses. So the students know these terms, you know,
because, I mean, the work itself was just phenomenal.
Katie Clark 14:06
So being that you're at another graduate, you know, you're at another institution of higher ed,
do you see now being that you can compare the two any, any things that you wish Augsburg
would have done different, that you maybe have where you're at? Or do you see things that
you wish your new place had that Augsburg did, like, you know, now that you're kind of in an in
a new higher ed space?
B
Bashiru Kormah 14:33
Yeah, it's a little different because I'm a graduate student and I'm at home, so I'm not really
interacting with anyone. I just go to class and then I'm on my own, so that really skews my
perception on that particular question. But I can say that particular experience at Augsburg you
know, this one you know that my I always reminiscing on that experience which has shaped my
culture and my stature those settings. Because at Brandeis is you know, especially the program
I'm in it is mostly international students just all international students from all across the world.
So be those classes, it was mostly discussion, you know having this conversation. So when I
had the opportunity to share my answer, I'm not just thinking from this sole mindset, I'm
thinking as a citizen professional or as a global citizen. How am I gonna approach this question,
knowing that I have a bunch of diverse people with extremely diverse backgrounds. You know,
so it has impacted me a lot. It'll be nice to if this conversation was on a graduate level, to be
honest.
Katie Clark 16:03
Well, that concludes all the questions that I have for the interview. So this has been an amazing
opportunity to hear from your experiences, and I've learned a lot and I'm inspired truly so.
Yeah, so I'll end the recording now.
Show less
Oral History with Emily Uecker (2022)
Wed, 4/6 4:35PM
22:28
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, important, social worker, people, vocation, engaged, civic engagement, students, social,
professional, experiences, work, community, big, bachelor, civic leadership, policy, special education,
civic, h... Show more
Oral History with Emily Uecker (2022)
Wed, 4/6 4:35PM
22:28
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, important, social worker, people, vocation, engaged, civic engagement, students, social,
professional, experiences, work, community, big, bachelor, civic leadership, policy, special education,
civic, helped
SPEAKERS
Katie Clark, Emily Uecker
Katie Clark 00:02
Thank you so much for participating in this oral history project with Augsburg University and
the Kettering Foundation exploring the concept of the citizen professional on higher education.
My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of nursing and the executive director of the
Augsburg health comments. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording?
E
Emily Uecker 00:24
My name is Emily Uecker.
Katie Clark 00:28
Great. And can you also tell us? When did you or when did you graduate from Augsburg?
E
Emily Uecker 00:36
Oh, I graduated with my bachelor's in social work in 2015.
Katie Clark 00:42
And before we continue, I just want to confirm that you consent to being interviewed and
having that interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public.
E
Emily Uecker 00:52
Yes
Yes
Katie Clark 00:54
So can you tell me a little bit about your educational background? And so you said you studied
social work at Augsburg. So where are you working now too? That would be great.
E
Emily Uecker 01:05
Sure. So I work as a special education social worker at Sojourner Truth Academy in North
Minneapolis. And then educational background, I did my bachelor's in Social Work at Augsburg,
Augsburg was my first choice for college, when I went. I grew up in Sioux Falls, South Dakota,
and knew I wanted some good engagement in the community and in an urban environment.
And so Augsburg was the top of my list. I then worked for a couple years after college and then
decided to go back for my masters but went down to Washington University in St. Louis, and
did my masters and social work there and missed the Twin Cities. So decided to move back.
Katie Clark 01:06
So thinking about your time at Augsburg were the concepts of the citizen professional civic
engagement, civic leadership or civic skills discussed in your classes or programs that you were
involved with? And if so, do you remember which ones?
E
Emily Uecker 02:05
Yes, absolutely. I think all of those were discussed at some level of being a social work major of
civic leadership is a big part of that of how to engage in the community, but then also how to
engage at every level, I guess, I should say, in the community. So whether it's individuals,
groups, institutions, and then even politics and policy of that's all discussed in terms of being a
social worker, and how to create the best environment for people moving forward and stay true
to those values. I was also involved in the Bonner Leaders Program. And that was really
important for both civic engagement and civic leadership, because that was discussed very
often. And then interfaith scholars as well as that scholarship program. And we engaged in the
community through a spiritual lens, so talked about different spiritual traditions and how that
contributes to our understanding of what what civic engagement means.
Katie Clark 03:15
So you're naturally engaged person yourself? Great. So which experiences if any standout is
meaningful opportunities to learn, reflect and integrate lessons across both your coursework
and the community engaged learning?
E
Emily Uecker 03:34
Sure. So those last two I mentioned the Bonner Leaders and Interfaith scholars is what I always
Sure. So those last two I mentioned the Bonner Leaders and Interfaith scholars is what I always
tell people were some of the best things I did during college. Bonner gave me the chance, I
think it's called like the LEAD Fellows now or something, but they gave me the chance to have
internships in the community from basically the moment I stepped foot on campus. It was a
program I entered my freshman year, I had engaged with people working at other agencies.
And so it was not only being able to have that support of being placed right away at a
internship at a nonprofit, and getting work study money to do that. But then having the support
to come back to of working with people at the Sabo Center and having that supervision but
then also having monthly meetings where I talk to people who are doing internships at
nonprofits across the Twin Cities. And so that not only helped my perspective of seeing the
different ways, one can be involved in civic engagement. It wasn't all nonprofits, somewhere,
government some were other sectors but it was all related to the community and so hearing
the about different people's experiences, and then having that experience myself was so
important. And then also just that network to go into when I was looking for jobs is being able
to say, Oh, hey, I know I didn't work at the Wilder Foundation. But I know people who did and
can talk to them about the work that they do, or whether it be housing or food shelf programs,
or different things that you kind of need to do as a social worker of coordinating all those
services. Having those connections really helped me. And then interfaith scholars stuck out
more so for the how the spiritual component connected, and I think that was really important,
too. I think that was a good grounding in that work, of kind of bringing it back internally of
what's your motivation? Why do you want to do this for the world?
Katie Clark 06:01
Excellent. And this, you kind of already answered this. So if something else comes to mind, let
me know. But in what ways did civic learning experiences that Augsburg prepare you to be
more ready for professional roles or civic leadership?
E
Emily Uecker 06:17
Sure. So again, like I talked about, seeing the different sectors was really important. I think
Augsburg also provided the groundwork with different student groups to be engaged. So I was
involved some with Students for Racial Justice, I was also really encouraged politically at
Augsburg, like a lot of college campuses. I think that's when people are starting to get involved
in politics, and was excited about that. So I ended up working for the DFL for a semester of
getting students. We were trying to increase voter turnout for the 2014 midterms, was the
main purpose and so engaging, really literally, democracy that way. And I bring that up,
because as someone that, I think, part of the time during college, I was like, Yeah, I want to do
like these big policy things. I'm going to be an organizer, I'm going to do this and then having
an organizing job and was just like, No, no, I don't. So being able to have that space, Augsburg
to kinda like try and experiment was really good. So then when I did go into the workforce, I
knew some of what, okay, this is what I'm looking for. And this is what I'm not. And that
obviously takes time, but to figure out in a more concrete way, but having the space to do that.
Katie Clark 07:53
So what is your job look like? Now, now that you're, you know, a social worker, and you sit in
the school, right?
E
Emily Uecker 08:01
So my title is a special education social worker, I'm at a pre-K through eight charter school. And
I have a caseload of mostly third through eighth graders. They are all students who have
individual education plans, so qualify for special education. I run individual and group behavior
and social skills classes. And at a lot of schools, they'll have special education, teachers running
social skills and behavior skills more. And part of the reason that the school has a social worker
doing it is a lot of students who get diagnosed with emotional behavioral disorder, a lot of that's
the source of trauma. And so having someone that has that social work background, to be able
to work with them and recognize that trauma, so I do that individual work. I also do a lot of
communicating with parents and referring them to additional mental health supports, outside
of school, always talking to teachers. So it's everything from doing schedules and behavior
trackers for kids with helping them to stay on track to talking about things going on in life to
having a third grade girls group where we talk about mean girls and all the things that come
with that.
Katie Clark 09:29
So do you feel like some of the experiences you had had you had at Augsburg prepared you for
the role you're in now or does it seem kind of disconnected?
E
Emily Uecker 09:40
I think it definitely connects. I think that having the social work experience was really important
of that bachelor's of Social Work. Especially being someone who did both a bachelor's and a
master's of a lot of people do their masters in social work without having a bachelor's when it
first if they do psychology or something else, but having that bachelor's really helped me to see
different sides of social work. And so right now I kind of walk the line but between clinical and
generalist. I've done a plan to do clinical track, or get that full licensure. And really, it's my time
at Augsburg that's helped me sort of stay grounded and figure out how to set those boundaries
and how to figure that out because it let me look at everything that social workers do. And had
I just gone for my master's, it would have been specialized right away. So that was really
important in my education, but then also having that on the ground experience of just being
able to say, going in that I've worked in youth spaces for almost a decade now is huge. And like
there's a lot that I've learned on the ground, like anybody who works with kids or works with
people will tell you if it just takes time to find your rhythm and different things. And so it was
really important that I had those experiences in college as well.
Katie Clark 11:24
Have you been able to use your civic learning or community engagement experience to affect
decision making or be an agent of change as a professional and if so how?
E
Emily Uecker 11:37
So one way is just within my school of being able to advocate for students, I've been here for
school wide policies that are really important, or set up my own structure, if there's a lack of
structure. Because we're a small independent school, sometimes there's not the same level of
across the board procedures that there would be in a large district. So being able to do that,
and set that is a big way that I affect change within my workplace. I think, also, I'm part of the
Minnesota school social workers association, and we just had our Day on the Hill recently. So I
actually had the opportunity to talk to Melissa Hortman, she's a representative, and she's
currently the Speaker of the House for the state of Minnesota, about increasing funding for
school support professionals within schools.
Katie Clark 12:52
So this is kind of a dense question, but what connections if any, do you see among your
professional identity, your vocation, and civic leadership? Very Augsburg type question, right?
professional identity, vocation and civic leadership. Let me think. And it's okay if you don't see
a connection.
E
Emily Uecker 13:23
So I definitely see a connection between the three. I feel like social work is something I'm good
at and youth work in general, there's something I'm good at. And something that has that both
like enjoyment and skill, alignment or spiritual and skill alignment that comes with vocation. I
think that so my job is something that's within my vocation, and then I do have civic
engagement and civic leadership within that. I think one thing I will say about vocation that I've
come to see since my time at Augsburg, I think I got very wrapped up in this idea of your job is
who you are. And so that's something I'm working on personally right now of trying to move
away from that, some. Because I think that leads to burnout, to a big extent of I am more than
just my job title. And figuring out what that means in my spiritual, social, personal life is
important to me as well as I think that vocation can be a wonderful thing. I think that having a
job that has a component of civic engagement is wonderful, and something that my heart is
definitely in. And I also understand that it's a privilege. I was in a situation that I didn't have to
chase, what was going to make me a certain amount of money or certain amount of financial
security, and had a little more flexibility with that, even though obviously, bills are still a thing,
and money is important. I don't have to take care of my parents, like, some of my classmates
did, or I don't have children on my own, like some of my classmates did. And so I see it as a
huge privilege to be able to be in a space where I'm doing something that feels like I'm part of
a community, and it's very much aligned with my heart and for people.
Katie Clark 15:55
Do you see yourself as a civic or citizen professional, even if you only use that specific term?
And if you do, how would you describe that or explain that to others?
E
Emily Uecker 16:09
Sure, so I think that the field of social work really does this well. It's this idea that policy affects
who we work with, at every level, including down to the most local office. And so being
who we work with, at every level, including down to the most local office. And so being
engaged, politically is important to me, not only for, for my job, but outside of it as well. I see
myself as a citizen professional, because I choose to since I work in Minneapolis, I also choose
to live in Minneapolis. And that's where I vote. I make sure that who I'm paying attention to and
talking to, when I talk to representatives as well, or when I pay attention to local elections, like
city council elections, if I was paying attention to my home ward, and I was paying to the
attention to the ward, where I work. It was important to me to see how that would affect the
people that I work with. And then I also think of it as in some ways, a form of self care is being
involved in those policy things. I see kids every day, that don't have a lot of agency and some
of the things they've been through. And their families don't even have a lot of agency and
some of the things they've had to go through if it's affected by bigger forces, like policy. And so
for my own view, on my profession, it's important for me to know those policies and be
engaged with them, because I can't change it in a second. Like, I want to.
Katie Clark 18:16
Yeah, I think one thing that I'm kind of finding through this process is I think a lot of people and
you just described it greatly, but a lot of people are really being civic or citizen professionals,
but maybe the words don't resonate with people as as, as the actual terms, right, so you think
of any other terminology that could really fit around this that you've heard that would work to
to really describe a citizen, professional or civic engagement? Or do you think that sticking with
these terms, moving forward is fine?
E
Emily Uecker 18:54
I can see people getting hung up on the word citizen. I don't know. It's hard to like, condense it
to a term. So I think there's some and I'm sure that's what you've struggled with, of like, I think
there's something to be said for asking about, like, how people are involved with policy, in
terms of their profession, or maybe even just like, Are you a politically engaged professional,
because I think there's a lot of discourse around that to have like, that's expanded a lot in a lot
of spaces. Of like, the politics is personal and I don't know.
Katie Clark 20:05
Is there anything you wish you would have learned at your time at Augsburg that you didn't
learn? or is there other opportunities or experiences you wish you had to prepare you for your
current career?
E
Emily Uecker 20:19
I think that vocation piece can be tricky. I think how it was taught at the time that I was at
Augsburg, which, again, was now several years ago, so might be different now. But at the time,
it was very much that push for vocation seemed like your identity was wrapped up in it. And so
I think ways to find your identity outside of that, and exploring spirituality, and whatever else
outside of that is important too. Your work in the world doesn't have to be the work you're paid
to do.
Katie Clark 21:03
Very good. Is there anything else you would like to share with us that I didn't ask?
E
Emily Uecker 21:11
Um, I guess one thing I'll say so I mentioned I went to Washington University for grad school,
which is like this, you know, top 20 for undergrad, big social work program, and I missed
Augsburg so much when I was there. It was tough to be at a social work program at a school
that wasn't liked by the community. They were seen as, and rightfully so, as just like a big
resource up and sort of elitist entity there. I missed Augsburg, even though they get it wrong,
sometimes even though there is like, the time it's taken for Augsburg to shift to be more
civically engaged, I think that it really does try its hardest to live up to its mission and its
values. And I missed that and appreciate that.
Katie Clark 22:17
Thank you, and thank you for taking the time for this interview. That concludes our interview.
So I just want to say thanks again.
Show less
Oral History with Noah Greenfield (2022)
Tue, 5/10 2:46PM
23:43
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, people, civic, professional, workplace, citizen, learned, guess, leadership, student, classes,
internships, civic leadership, disconnected, vocation, civic duty, studied, interviewed, thinking, hel... Show more
Oral History with Noah Greenfield (2022)
Tue, 5/10 2:46PM
23:43
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, people, civic, professional, workplace, citizen, learned, guess, leadership, student, classes,
internships, civic leadership, disconnected, vocation, civic duty, studied, interviewed, thinking, helped
SPEAKERS
Katie Clark, Noah Greenfield
Katie Clark 00:02
All right, so thank you for participating in this oral history project with Augsburg University and
the Kettering Foundation, exploring the concept of the civic professional in higher ed. My name
is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of nursing and executive director of the Augsburg
Health Commons. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording?
N
Noah Greenfield 00:23
All right. Hi, I am Noah Greenfield.
Katie Clark 00:27
Great. So and before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being
interviewed and having that interviewed stored at Augsburg University, which we which will be
made available to the public.
N
Noah Greenfield 00:40
I consent to be to being recorded. Yes.
Katie Clark 00:44
Wonderful. So when did you or when will you graduate from Augsburg?
N
Noah Greenfield 00:51
I graduated from Augsburg in December of 2019.
I graduated from Augsburg in December of 2019.
Katie Clark 00:56
know can you tell me a little bit about your educational background and what you studied while
you were at Augsburg?
N
Noah Greenfield 01:05
Yes, I studied a couple different things while at Augsburg. I majored in public policy. So I took a
lot of political science classes and some sociology classes. And then I minored in, it was a really
cool thing, the leadership studies minor, which was brand new the first year I ever got there.
And so I was kind of a guinea pig for the program. And so we had specifically leadership
courses, and then some electives for the course that were communication classes, getting
sociology classes, things like that. Yeah, that's kind of what I started to Augsburg, formally, and
then informally through student groups and programs, lots of lots of other things as well, like
government and citizenship and civic duty stuff like that. Yeah.
Katie Clark 02:01
Great. So thinking back at your time at Augsburg were the concepts of the citizen professional
civic engagement, civic leadership, or civic skills discussed in your classes or programs you're
involved with? And if so, which ones if you remember,
N
Noah Greenfield 02:19
I would say, I studied political science and really, really did not talk about civic life very much
and civic duty, civic engagement. Pretty much at all. I know my leadership studies class did,
just from what we studied, was the social change model of leadership. So in that, under that
was, you know, civil discourse we talked about in their citizenship was one of the main courses
on how to be a citizen in society. So that would be my leadership studies courses, probably the
only ones that talked about that.
Katie Clark 03:01
Were you in any internships or student groups outside of your courses or classes?
N
Noah Greenfield 03:10
Yes, yeah, I did a lot of internships. I interned with CTUL (Centro de Trabajadores Unidos En La
Lucha), which is a center for workers united struggle, worked there for about two years with
their developmental director, like writing grants and fundraising, programming and stuff like
that. And then I worked for the Humanist Society. I work for a couple of doctorate students
working on, like meaning how people find meaning in life, who are not religious. That was like,
super cool. And then I did a HECUA (Higher Education Consortium for Urban Affairs) internship
with the Homeless Coalition, I kind of worked with the policy director there and doing research
for her trying to figure out data about kids who are homeless on the streets, stuff like that. And
then a couple groups, student government, I was highly active in for about three years. That
was wonderful. I like that a lot. And then, just a couple of like, the Cedar Commons, I guess, at
Augsburg University had stuff every week or you could just kind of go to and talk with people
about certain topics religion, communication, things like that civic duty, civic life, though, kind
of spoke to you every week as well. But yeah, it was very busy, busy at Augsburg University.
Katie Clark 04:44
So what are you doing now?
N
Noah Greenfield 04:50
Right now I work at a smaller nonprofit called the alternatives for people with autism. We take
care of adults who have severe autism. As well as some form of like, of mental retardation. And
I'm like the, like the apartment manager over there. So I just oversee around like six or seven
employees and we take care of four people. So yeah, that's what I do now.
Katie Clark 05:20
Okay, which experiences if any standout as meaningful opportunities to learn, reflect and
integrate lessons across coursework and community engaged learning? This is back to your
Augsburg time, describe those experiences. And it's okay if they were disconnected, because
some students they were so that's totally fine. We're looking to find those holes if there are
some.
N
Noah Greenfield 05:51
At Augsburg, I would say that they were fairly disconnected. I think on student government,
they were fairly connected. Just with the small group of people that we had in student
government that were passionate about it. I would say that there was there was some
collections with that as well, just with people being like, elected representatives on the student
body and acting out being an elected representative of somebody while in their daily life at
Augsburg, so they weren't to disconnect in a way, they were, you know, talking as if trying to
solve problems while on campus as to their friends to their classes. And in that, it wasn't always
connected to There's certain times where they feel more connected than others, when people
are more motivated. Like it's passionate. I guess the other time where it's been connected is
through LEAD fellows. It's something that some Sabo does. That's how I have so many
internships is because of lead fellows and Elaine and what they did over there, but the kind of
group work that we did, and what we talked about when we would meet up as a group. They
felt very connected. I think Elaine was very, I guess, intentional about that, I think the things we
talked about, really got us thinking about how to how to have like live life, more civically, I
guess, and more responsible and voting and like knowing what's going on and knowing about
knowing that the ideas and the ideologies I guess, of the people you were with, and and talking
about them.
Katie Clark 07:56
So in what ways, if any, did civic learning experiences at Augsburg preparing you to be more
ready for your professional role? or civic leadership after you graduated?
N
Noah Greenfield 08:10
Yeah. I think a lot I think, especially in the workplace, I think it's helped me a bunch. With, with
coworkers, I guess. And and again, bosses too. I think that's where it's helped me the most. I
guess with like, how to navigate a conversation that might be uncomfortable, I think is like, the
biggest thing that it's kind of taught me is when things become more like petty is what I mean
by difficult conversation. The civic teachings kind of like helping you see the bigger picture, I
guess, of like, why you're there and what you're doing. So it kind of helps navigate those
conversations and not get caught up with you know, like, things that might not mean a whole
lot of in the bigger picture, but can feel very important. Like, right there. Yeah, helping navigate
conversations with coworkers is probably like, the biggest thing and then helped make, I guess
decisions for the people that work for me and in a more balanced way where I can. So it's not
just about the work it's also about them as people to like how how do they feel showing up
every day is something that needs to be taken an accounting for when you're making decisions
for everybody is their hours. You know, if they're there, back to back too much or they're not
getting enough time at home or away, or they're working too many afternoons so that they're
not getting to see people during the day, stuff like that, where it's like, what helps people be
like a person in society is like, yeah, I guess that just kind of helps make make decisions, I
guess. Well, at work. So.
Katie Clark 10:20
Would you say that your time at Augsburg has helped you engage more in your larger
community outside of the workplace? Or were you just kind of born that way? Because it
sounds like you're kind of an engaged person to begin with.
N
Noah Greenfield 10:37
So I am an engaged person to begin with, but I'm going from like the country. So it would be
pretty hard if I didn't have Augsburg to show me show me how, I guess to like, point my
compass, because I think I would just sort of gone off in that, like, you've done other stuff, for
sure. But in terms of like, engaging in like, a civic way, Augsburg definitely kind of like taught
me like, I guess, some like ground rules and some basic, you know, formulations and how to do
that. So yeah, I would say definitely. Yeah.
Katie Clark 11:13
Katie Clark 11:13
And this question is a little bit redundant. But we're kind of doing that just to see if it spurs any
other ideas, but have you? And you've heard answered it already. But have you been able to
use your civic learning or community engagement experience to affect decision making? Or be
an agent of change as a professional? If so, how?
N
Noah Greenfield 11:32
Oh, my Yes. Oh, my gosh, yeah, that's, that's like, that's number one. I guess what I've taken
away is, like, with my degree in public policy was "slash" change. So change is something that's
like, extremely important me like positive change. So it's like, that's right now I'm actually at
my job, I'm using my leadership studies degree, the social change model of leadership with my
apartment, and the people who I work with and work with me, and we're trying to like work
through that book, to kind of our overarching goals is to effectively communicate with each
other and to be a team. So we don't really feel like a team right now. And so that's my positive
change that I want to make. And then we're, like, all just talking about these aspects of like
individual values and group values. And, you know, like, what do we need from each other? And
so, and I would have no idea how to do any of them. It wasn't for what I learned at Augsburg,
for sure. So it's really nice to have.
Katie Clark 12:36
Well, this one is a little dense, people get tripped up on this next one? So what, if any, do you
see among your professional identity, your vocation, and civic leadership? So do you see any
connections between those? If you don't, that's okay. So professional identity, vocation and
civic leadership?
N
Noah Greenfield 13:05
Yeah, that's a really good question. That's like a write down question. But I will definitely try to
answer that the best. So professional identity. I guess what I'm when I hear when I think when I
hear that is how other people and how you see yourself in a professional workplace, how you
like, your vision of yourself or other people see, vocation is what like, gets me going, what
motivates me and what's my calling? And like, why do I do what I do? And then last one was in
my that my civic duty, you said?
Katie Clark 13:41
Your civic leadership,
N
Noah Greenfield 13:43
Civic leadership, okay. And I know that connection between those I would say there's, there's a
connection between those for me, I think there has to be a connection, or I will look for
someplace else, or I will go someplace else, I think those three have to have, there's has to be
some type of connection I can make in my head between those to really my all in a workplace
and I would say civic leadership, like I that's what I've been working on the most. The other two
vocation wise, I love caring for people. So it's like no matter what aspect I can do that with,
that's it. That's it with my position and in the first one. Just to be a leader at work and to be,
you know, conscious and communicate with people, I think is really what I do at work and how
people see me and what I want people to see me as someone they can come to and solve
problems and talk to you and then civic leadership is just living those, living those out together.
And I think some days is harder and I would say I would be lying if I said every day they feel
connected. I think you have to work to, to connect those. I would say, when I'm on when I'm
feeling good, and I have had a good day and is rest and wake up feeling ready and motivated
those, there's those three have to be connected for me and are connected.
Katie Clark 15:22
Yeah. When I would think to you know, given if you're living your vocational dream, and you're
putting all your passion into your, you know, chosen profession, you it's easy to burn out.
N
Noah Greenfield 15:35
Oh, yeah, yes. Yeah.
Katie Clark 15:38
So every day is a different day. Yeah. So
N
Noah Greenfield 15:40
Yeah. New struggle, new fight.
Katie Clark 15:46
So, do you see yourself as a civic or citizen professional, even if that specific term doesn't
resonate with you? And if so, could you describe it or explain i
N
Noah Greenfield 16:03
Hmm. Um, I think so. It's hard, just from, it feels like, I work in Brooklyn Park, and I live in
Minneapolis. And those kind of feel a little disconnected when I think of citizen I think of the
work I'm doing for that to be the work where I'm living as well. So that feels like they have to be
connected. But I think in my mind, they kind of go to that. I think in Minneapolis, it's harder to
be a citizen, than I think anywhere else in Minnesota, it feels like just with how big it is, and
how many different ideas and people there are, or it's, it's almost to be a citizen is to step on
people's toes a little bit, which like, it's fine, I think. But I think it's becoming harder to step on
people's toes, I guess, challenge ideas and communicate with them very clearly about those
ideas. Like that's getting a little harder. Because it's just so big, where, whereas when I'm at
work, it feels smaller, and it feels much more attainable, and easier to be a citizen and act of
take an active role in the community there. than it is here. But I guess that's yeah.
Katie Clark 17:43
In your opinion on this too, because I feel like you're so I've think I've done like six of these
now. And I feel like sometimes the word civic, professional or citizen professional, like doesn't
resonate with students or alone? Like, is there terminology to get at what we're getting at? You
know, and if, if it doesn't resonate with you, I'd be interested. And if it doesn't, I'd be interested
to to see if you thought of any other way to describe what we're describing something else?
N
Noah Greenfield 18:20
What, what is the definition of civic professional?
Katie Clark 18:25
Yeah, so civic, professional, or citizen professional would kind of be like, so for example, as a
nurse, so it'd be not just like working within my institution, but really seeing myself as being
engaged in the community, thinking about social justice, co creating different things with
people like kind of leveling or de emphasizing that power. So really trying to be Hey, we're,
we're all part of this country. And so what is our duty to make sure that we're involved and
shape decisions in our governments because technically, in a perfect democratic society, that's
what it would be. But I believe we've kind of fallen away from that. And professionals kind of
are in this ivory tower. So how do we get away from that? You know, yeah, yeah.
N
Noah Greenfield 19:15
I think I don't think there is a better word for that. I think people feel disconnected of that from
that or people like if you're interviewing people from like, if my age or younger me or similar to
my age. I just think people that have no concept of that. I think there's people just don't
understand what that would even mean what that would look like. I mean, he's looking like any
like television shows or anything or you don't see anything like that if people in the workplace
it's very you know, you're you're an individual and your workplace you're there to get money.
You're there to do a certain whatever motivates you to get there and then you're gonna go
home. And I've found that with people that work for me too, is There that's I'm trying to kind of
suss out is like, what's the bigger thing for why you're here? So I think people are confused and
feel disconnect from it. Because there's, there's, there's there's probably no word for or phrase
for it for people. So I think it's a good phrase. I like the phrase. But yeah, I think that would
probably be why it's just people don't have a concept of it. There's no set of places like like
CTUL or, or people or workplaces that are specifically honed in on that aspect of it and make a
big part of their mission to do that.
Katie Clark 20:41
Katie Clark 20:41
So, is there anything you wish you would have learned during your time at Augsburg that you
didn't?
N
Noah Greenfield 20:53
That's a good a question I wish I had learned.
Katie Clark 20:59
Or maybe it's there are other opportunities or experience you wish that you would have had to
prepare you for your future career? It could be either or?
N
Noah Greenfield 21:08
That's a good one. I don't think I came away from my experience thinking that I think in looking
back, it's hard as I learned so many different things where it's like, what else could I have
learned? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if there was I'm sure if I'm sure there's something
because there always is. But right. Just right now, I think I learned so many different things with
with the liberal arts education, having so many different areas of learning and my minors and
majors allowed for so many different areas of learning that I felt like they had so much I think, if
I could have learned one thing more I would have liked learn the arguments of conservatives
more and thought about them deeper, so I could more easily refuted them. I think. I think that's
one thing that I would have loved. I think the only one class we really got there was like an
argumentation class, where we actually really learned about opposing perspectives, like
deeply. I think that that's probably the one thing I would learn coming back.
Katie Clark 22:21
Well, so is there anything that you'd like to add that I didn't ask you about at all?
N
Noah Greenfield 22:30
Um, like add to like, add to the this recording?
Katie Clark 22:35
Yes. Is there Yeah, that you want to share that I didn't ask you about?
N
Noah Greenfield 22:39
I don't know. I think Augsburg is doing a pretty good job. But I think I'm kind of a special case of
our experience, just with, with the type of learning that I did get in to being the guinea pig for
that leadership program. I think the leadership program was probably a very good start on this
that leadership program. I think the leadership program was probably a very good start on this
what you guys doing now? And like, what we're trying to do in the workplace, and yeah, I don't
know. I think it's I think it's cool. I think there has to be some sort of like, bigger thing people
need to go to in need to think of in their minds when they go to work or when they are walking
around every day. I think we're definitely losing touch with that right now.
Katie Clark 23:34
Well, thank you so much. This has been so insightful. So that concludes our interview. So I'll
stop the recording. I appreciate your time.
Show less
Oral History with Oscar Martinez (2022)
Thu, 3/24 5:54PM
28:08
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, augsburg, community, civic, learning, professional, bonner, daily struggles, vocation, graduated,
work, college, feel, tutoring, affect, interview, company, harder, related, prepare
SPEAKERS
Katie C... Show more
Oral History with Oscar Martinez (2022)
Thu, 3/24 5:54PM
28:08
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, augsburg, community, civic, learning, professional, bonner, daily struggles, vocation, graduated,
work, college, feel, tutoring, affect, interview, company, harder, related, prepare
SPEAKERS
Katie Clark, Oscar Martinez
Katie Clark 00:00
All right. Well, thank you for participating in this oral history project with Augsburg University
and the Kettering Foundation, exploring the concept of the Civic Professional in higher
education. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of nursing. Could you please
introduce yourself for the recording?
O
Oscar Martinez 00:43
Yes, my name is Oscar Martinez-Armenta. I'm an Augsburg alum. I graduated at 2016. And I'm
now working as a quality technician.
Katie Clark 00:55
Great. And also, before we continue, I just want to confirm that you consent to being
interviewed and having your interview stored at Augsburg University, which we which will be
made available to the public.
O
Oscar Martinez 01:08
I consent to all of that
Katie Clark 01:10
Thank you. When did you graduate from Augsburg?
O
Oscar Martinez 01:15
Oscar Martinez 01:15
Spring 2016.
Katie Clark 01:18
Great. Can you tell me a little bit about your educational background and what you studied
while you were at Augsburg?
O
Oscar Martinez 01:25
Well, I got a Bachelors of Science in chemistry from the kind of knew before I started college
that I wanted to pursue a STEM related subject. I think there was time in high school my junior
where I had doubts about my abilities to speak and write English well. So I try to stray away
from any related to writing and speaking in English, and I felt that a STEM degree would push
me in the right direction, that's one of the major reasons I choose chemistry. But then I actually
fell in love with the subject. And that's that stuff.
Katie Clark 02:23
Well, thinking back over your time at Augsburg, where the concepts of citizen professional,
civic engagement, civic leadership or civic skills discussed in any of your classes or programs
that you were involved with?
O
Oscar Martinez 02:44
My professors were really good about having speakers come in and discuss what the
community on campus had about volunteering, and being part of other groups on campus. And
we went kind of walking through hallways looking at the posters and what was on the websites.
So it was easy for me to see some of the opportunities that were available in regard to civic
engagement, and whatnot. And even before I started seeing things like the announcements
before I started college, it was kind of something I knew I wanted to do, just because I was
already doing it in high school. So I wanted to I wanted to have a healthy balance of education
in the classroom. And kind of participation out in the community, especially in the surrounding
community.
Katie Clark 03:55
Great! Which of the experiences that you had while you're at Augsburg stand out as really
meaningful opportunities to learn, reflect, or integrate lessons across coursework and
community engaged learning? (Laughter) I don't even remember the name of the program
anymore. it's okay if you don't remember the name of the program, but do you remember
doing something that was related to community engagement?
O
Oscar Martinez 04:39
Yeah.
Katie Clark 04:45
Well, there's the Christianson scholars. There's a Strommen scholars. There's the Bonner
student or LEAD fellow.
O
Oscar Martinez 04:53
There we go - Bonner! Elaine is going to hate me for that one! (Laughter). So, when I was a
Bonner I got placed at this nonprofit organization, and that was pushing the price for the low
wage workers to a minimum of $15 an hour. And prior to being placed there, I had heard about
(you know) why this push was happening, but actually working in different outlook and put a
face to the fight, rather than just reading about it. And it's helped me connect with people in
see how they are pursuing that people have to live, they have to buy food, get transportation,
to feed the families, and really connected and made me understand why people were doing
what they were fighting for themselves. It's just like, I was able to chat with a lot of people and
understanding the struggle. And just being part of that felt like that I was doing something
meaningful in the community. Great. And were you able to take any of those experiences and
bring them back into your coursework? Or did it feel kind of disconnected? It felt somewhat
disconnected. Just because my classroom, I mean, again my courses, well at the beginning not
so much. They were pretty well rounded. You have your other courses to get your degree like
this chemistry. And then you have a little bit others English, music, related closely. You have
religion. But once I got to a higher level courses. Yes, much higher level courses began my
junior year or senior year. I don't have a well rounded coursework anymore. It's mainly STEAM
related. And for me its been stuck in the lab a lot. And during experiements so you kind of have
professors try to connect what were learning to the outside world, you know, learning electrons,
explaining how we can use that in the world. But really tying to some other things that I was
experiencing. What's the daily struggle of some living across the street - well I don't know, I am
not learning that in my chemistry class. So yeah, it was disconnected, feel like I was living in
different worlds. Especially as an upperclassman. Well, so it makes me really excited to hear
your answer for the next question. Did any of the civic learning experiences, like being a
Bonner, prepare you to be ready for a professional or civic or your professional role or even
involved in civic leadership, once you graduated?
Katie Clark 08:35
Yes, and no. I mean, out of college, and I still do some tutoring, as well come right out of
college. Thinking about keep helping out in the community. But I also needed to make a living
as well. So I was like, Okay, well, my first year I did a little bit of tutoring outside of work. But
then I got to the point where I just kind of focused on work and just hanging out with friends
and family and not so much so civic engagment and it's been like that for a few years now. I've
just kind of dedicated more time and energy towards my professional career and not so much
to civic engagment. So start off well but...
O
Oscar Martinez 09:35
O
Oscar Martinez 09:35
That's okay. All circles back. Right. Well, and so this question is similar but comes at a different
angle. So have you been able to use your civic learning or community engagement experience
to affect your decision making or be an agent of change as a professional so you kind of
already answered the second part, but has it affected your decision making Since you've
graduated in any way? Yeah, when it is asked like that, yes because I'm trying to grow as a
professional. I'm always conscious of the people that I'm working with, regardless of what level
they are in the company. And so you know, some of some of the decisions that I get to make
are pretty important and affect how some of my co workers have worked. So, before I try to
implement certain actions, I try to ask them to see how its going to impact them as they are
going to be the ones doing the the day to day work for some of the decisions that I made, so I
try to make sure that it's not too much time to their work. And it's not too late and intensive for
them. And we're not I've always been a people person, too. So it's, I try to connect with my
coworkers. And of course, I respect personal boundaries, and I understand theere are different
personalities, your introverts and extroverts try to meet people where they are at. So yeah, I
mean, you know, as I grew up professionally, I don't want some of those. I don't want some of
that to change for me. You know, I try to respect people, and try to find ways to make it not
harder. And I think right now we're on emotionless. That's kind of like the attitude of the people
here. The word culture is really great. I mean, people are trying to get along, and I'm trying to
grow with this company. But you know, being where I'm at, I'm somewhere in a company where
I'm on the floor with a lot of production employees. So I know their daily struggles. But I also
interact with upper management, folks up in front of offices, so I get to see their take. So as I
grew up, and grow in the company and get to some of those upper management roles, like, I'll
definitely have some of those thoughts. You know, in the back of my head, and keep in mind,
the daily struggles of people trying to serve them. That was a long response, but yes, I feel like
some of it. I do apply some of those skills, and knowledge that I've learned in my professional
life, and I try to take care of people I work with and its worked out so far.
Katie Clark 13:07
Well, it sounds like you're very relational. And actually, you're actually very political when
you're at work, which really is being, you know, being involved in democratic everyday life and
being a citizen professional, butsometimes you don't recognize that that's so important. So
kudos to you. So given that, you know, I can see, you know, being a nurse, I could see how
STEM may have a disconnect, or, you know, careers following. Is there something at Augsburg
that you wish you would have had to prepare you for the career that you do have in in context
to it could really be anything, but this is kind of my own question, just thinking about career
readiness. And we often think this, about this through the lens of being involved in the
community. But is there something else that would have better prepared you for the world as it
is in your profession? Yeah, so throughout college did a really good job of getting internships
and academic labs, or going into school or academically. So, I mean, enhancing my lab skills.
Looking back now, I wish I would have done some industrial experience more industrial
experience, because I get to see how people operate and what happens when the other
managers who disagree with you, as opposed to what they call principal investigator or PI, like
the lab supervisor, they're gonna be a little more lenient with you, or at least they should be.
So whereas industrical experience as you know, people have to meet deadlines, they have to
send out auits and they are going to have to deal with complaints? And so I didn't get that in
college. So then I wish I would have learned how to deal with real life a little more, especially
with different people and other baggage. I wish I would have been more industrial.
O
Oscar Martinez 15:30
Thank you for answering that. That's helpful. So what connections, if any, do you see among
professional identity, your vocation and civic leadership? Do you see any connections between
those? Full disclosure, Elaine wrote these not me. So if you can yell at her later. Yeah, of
course, what connections do you see among your professional identity, your vocation, and your
civic leadership? Well, at least on a personal level, you know, even the company where I work
for it, you know, we make products for the vehicle care industry. And they have this model
website, they have a lot. And one of those ways of seeing water reveals of chemistry, right. But
you know, when I see videos are of a product we make, and that's the logo, we're still using
modern, a lot of things and we are so wasteful, so trying to see like how I can help improve
academic, it'd be great if we wouldn't waste water period. There are a lot of places that need it,
like California has their own struggles. Places in Africa. So that's, that's in the back of my head,
because I started there as well, because it would cool if I was working something more green.
Katie Clark 17:21
Sure.
O
Oscar Martinez 17:22
And then my company's trying to actually reduce the amount of water that we waste. So you
know, I'm trying to go with a company, they're trying to do something that's meaningful for the
community and actually helps. But sometimes I still struggle with that. And that kind of ties into
location, I feel because you're, I mean, it's for me, I want to do something that affects a lot of
people in a beneficial way. And it doesn't affect a lot of it doesn't reach a lot people, at least,
it's only a few people, at least it It reaches them in a substantial way. So I don't know. It's it's
kind of, sometimes I feel like it's kind of hard to balance all those things, you know, trying to
grow within your profession, doing something for your communities, finding your vocation. If it
was up to me, I was I would try to start a company where I'm hiring people who are from
underprivileged communities and really need a job, but also grow within these companies, and
are making a product that's affecting the community in a very impactful way. I don't know what
that product is, you know, if I could get there, I would, you know, that kind of would connect
also this component that you're talking about. But as it stands, you know, I can't tell you like,
sacrificing any of those components, like, you know, when any given day at my work place I'm,
honestly, I'm still trying to find my vocation. So I don't know, maybe I'll have a clear answer in
the future, but there is, like really weak answer. What do I want? What kind of legacy do I want
in my community? Because, you know, like, when I'm at work, I'm interacting with some
customers, but I'm not always interacting with people that are affecting, you know, like, far
down the road, far down the road. So if I could have a more direct relationship with my
customers, people in the community, I don't know, maybe people's gardens, you know,
something along those lines? Yeah, sorry. No, these answers are great. And exactly what we're
hoping to hear more of, because we're learning more about what this means to you and what
the realities are. I mean, so would you say that you consider yourself a civic professional? Or
what maybe I'm hearing that that's what you're striving to be? Striving to be but I wouldn't
consider myself one. You know, like I said, my company handled how things are wasted. You
know, I mean, if you break it down, I mean, technically I am serving communities to help
eliminated or reduce waste, but it's very different from what I experienced in college, having
more direct relationship out with community members, like right now this year, like I'm working
with people who are paid to do their job as opposed to working as opposed to people who
volunteered to work for nonprofits, or things like that to have more genuine interest and like,
humanistic. Kind of feels like sometimes I'm just waiting people like this as they are learning.
Katie Clark 21:41
Sure.
O
Oscar Martinez 21:43
Even though the companies might be geared towards positive incentives and always feel
genuine.
Katie Clark 21:49
Sure. Well, then the last question really is there anything you would like to share that I didn't
ask about? Well, and I think the purpose of this interview is too to better understand what
happens when people graduate and does their vocation or their interests change when people
maybe aren't as engaged? Or is it that it's that much harder? So how can we better prepare
students for the realities they're going to face when life gets crazy and busy with all the things
you just said, and just a little bit that I've heard you say, makes me really think that you are the
person that we want to have in our communities, in our workplaces, and just the little that you
do every day thinking through who people are and their relationships. I think that you are doing
those things and so don't don't beat yourself up. For sure, but we're always happy to have you
circle back. So anyhow, that concludes the interview. So I'm gonna hit pause in just a second.
But thank you for the interview and your time.
O
Oscar Martinez 22:07
I mean, I really touched base on this a little bit but you know, like yeah, when I was when I was
a high school junior or a high school sophomore but I was very good about finding ways to stay
engaged. I wanted to teach those students about the negative impacts of drinking alcohol
under the age and how that effected brain development, tutoring, prepping meals at open arms
an organization working with people with chronic illnesses, I was very good about finding
opportunities and making time for them and then college embedded in my academics again
and I tried to do it once they graduated. Yet been playing back and you know, when this
interview was brought out, it kind of made me think a little harder too. You know I do think
about every day they think about what I want my legacy to be and what kind of impact I want
to have. That's the whole reason everybody goes to me reasons why I did what I did. And it's
been hard to do that now. Obviously, like the way that married, have kids, but mean maybe it's
maybe it's me not putting enough effort to find out but but I just feel disengaged. I know it'd be
good to go back to so of that so I don't know. Maybe you or Elaine or somebody else has
opportunities that I'm unaware that he helped me jump into some of those things. But as it
stands I haven't really. I've just been disengaged for the last five years. Thank you.
Show less
Oral History with Shelley Pacheo (2022)
Mon, 4/4 3:43PM
15:16
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, civic engagement, student, classes, civic, experiences, professional, vocation, sociology,
graduate, community, huge, talk, civic leadership, term, debate, lead, learn, citizen, working
SPEAKERS
Ka... Show more
Oral History with Shelley Pacheo (2022)
Mon, 4/4 3:43PM
15:16
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, civic engagement, student, classes, civic, experiences, professional, vocation, sociology,
graduate, community, huge, talk, civic leadership, term, debate, lead, learn, citizen, working
SPEAKERS
Katie Clark, Shelly Pacheco
Katie Clark 00:03
Okay, so thank you for participating in this oral history project with Augsburg University and the
Kettering Foundation, exploring the concept of the civic professional in higher ed. My name is
Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of nursing and Executive Director of the Health
Commons. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording?
S
Shelly Pacheco 00:24
Yeah, so um, I'm Shelley Pacheco, a third year here at Augsburg double majoring in political
science and sociology. Yes.
Katie Clark 00:36
Great. So before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed
and having an interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the
public.
S
Shelly Pacheco 00:47
Yes, I do consent.
Katie Clark 00:49
Great. So when will you graduate from Augsburg University?
S
Shelly Pacheco 00:54
Shelly Pacheco 00:54
I'll be graduating spring 2023. Yes.
Katie Clark 01:01
Great. And can you tell me a little bit about your educational background? And what you're
currently studying at Augsburg?
S
Shelly Pacheco 01:08
Yeah, so I'm doing a double major in political science and sociology, I have always been
interested in social issues that are going on and how, like, it affects my community. So yeah,
I'm really passionate about those things. And I just love giving back to my community. That's a
really core my life and yeah, yes, I'm planning on hopefully getting a job into law enforcement.
Right after I graduate. So yes.
Katie Clark 01:38
How did you choose Augsburg out of all the other universities you could have chosen?
S
Shelly Pacheco 01:43
That's a really interesting question. It i It wasn't my first choice. To be honest. I came here
because of the financial aid. I got a full ride. So I'm like, Yeah, I have to take. So that's pretty
much what I mean after that, like the community so amazing here, though, people, the
students are just very supportive, and it's very diverse. So yeah, I'm glad I came here.
Katie Clark 02:08
Wonderful. So thinking back over your time at Augsburg, where the concepts of the citizen
professional, civic engagement, civic leadership, or civic skills discussed in your classes or
programs that you've been involved with? And if so, which ones if you do remember?
S
Shelly Pacheco 02:28
Oh, yeah. So I did Summer Bridge in 2019. Summer 2019. And that's when I got introduced to
LEAD Fellows. Um, how I heard about him was through LaToya, I love LaToya. Yes, yeah. So she
introduced me to the program, and suggested that I apply. So I applied and I ended up getting
a job. Minnesota UDL (Urban Debate League), which is like the debate league here in
Minnesota. So I did it for my first year. And then ever since that I've been doing LEAD Fellows.
Right now I'm currently working at Trinity Church, which is like a homework help after school.
So I basically like tutor, mentor, middle school through high school students. But in terms of my
classes, oh, I don't know. I don't. I say only in my sociology. Yeah. And political classes. So I
major classes were like, I hear about civic engagement. I really long like, those are like the
classes were like the require, but like, I have to take them. Yeah. And it's just, yeah, like, it's
mostly like I say, we only talk about it when there's like, something really big going on. But
other than that, like, we just really don't talk about it.
Katie Clark 03:57
So which experiences stand out as meaningful opportunities to learn, reflect and integrate
lessons across coursework, and community engaged learning? So describe any of those
experiences.
S
Shelly Pacheco 04:13
Can you elaborate on that question?
Katie Clark 04:16
What is trying to ask you this? So some of the stuff that you learned when you were a LEAD
fellow? Were any of those concepts and the concepts we just kind of talked about? And I think
you kind of answered this question. Where are they really in your course work? Could they were
they connected?
S
Shelly Pacheco 04:31
Oh, so for my sociology and law class. We did a project. So I don't know if you remember. Like
the big elections that we just had for the mayor. What is the word I forgot the term as a strong
versus weak mayor and then the public safety department and then the rent bill? Yeah, so
based on those two bills, we did our debate in my class, where we like, invited the public to
learn more about the debate and like what was going to be on the ballot. So that really like that
is really shows how like, my sociology class was really intertwined with my LEAD fellow. So very
engaging work. So yeah, it was really interesting. We did debate, had to write an essay and
then we also did our newspapers, through the echo.
Katie Clark 05:30
So would you say any of your time that you're like tutoring at Trinity? Does any of that those
experiences really pertain? Or help you better understand any of your coursework?
S
Shelly Pacheco 05:45
Oh, well, I'm not really like an education major. I say, it's mostly, like, for me how I can better
tell, like, bringing like cultural awareness in my classroom and like, be a better leader for those
kids. So yeah.
Katie Clark 06:04
In what ways, if any, did civic learning experiences at Augsburg prepare you to be ready for a
professional role or civic leadership when you graduate?
S
Shelly Pacheco 06:15
Oh, I think for me, it's mostly LEAD fellows, that's like a been, it's been really helpful in my
here, like my years here at Augsburg. We'll learn about social issues that are going, on how to
be a better student, how to like, fight against the status quo, you know. I think like having
those talks and like with my classmates, and like, talk about those topics, like it's really huge,
and like, also the student orgs here at Augsburg I know, this year, they did a lot of focus
groups, more like they will bring our students and alumni, talk about their experiences here at
Augsburg, like what it means to be a minority here are experts. So I think like the student orgs
and LEAD fellows, they're just like, really big on those topics.
Katie Clark 07:24
So have you been able to use your civic learning or community engagement experiences to
affect decision making or be an agent of change as a professional? If so, how? So learned any
real skills from your community engagement time or LEAD fellow time that has allowed you to
feel like you could create change when you see it needed?
S
Shelly Pacheco 07:54
Oh, yeah. I'm also in student government I'm the junior class president, and it's just been really
interesting to see how there's so many student concerns going on. And there's just barely
enough time to like, do something about these issues. All right, now we're working on parking.
Parking is really bad for commuters. There's no really no spaces. But DPS continues on selling
passes, even though there's not many slots. So yeah, that's just a really huge thing. And I think
like, just learning about student concerns, and like, what I think about my personal opinions,
you know, like, yeah, like parking is a huge thing here on campus. But there's also like other
things that might be more important to other students. So I think like setting aside my personal
opinion, and like the student concerns is really interesting for me. Yeah, it's just like, student
government, like really helps you like, use your civic engagement skills.
Katie Clark 09:04
So what connections if any, do you see among your professional identity, your vocation and
civic leadership? It's kind of a dense question. So what connections between professional
identity or where you are thinking you'll end up but I would say you probably have a
professional identity now your vocation and then civic leadership.
S
Shelly Pacheco 09:29
Yeah, so like I said, Before, I have always, I just love giving back to my community and just
Yeah, so like I said, Before, I have always, I just love giving back to my community and just
anything so I, if I do become part of law enforcement, I think like civic engagement is gonna be
a huge thing in my life where like, I have to decide what given back to my community or like,
given to like the broader community here in the US. I'm a minority, so like, working for people
that are not minority, it's just like gonna put me in that position where like, well, what did I do?
Like, did I listen to my community or listen to like folks who are not like me. And I didn't just
being in that position. Like, it just shows how like, my civic engagement skills are gonna be put
into play, you know, like, I have two make those big decisions. And in terms of my vocation I
don't know, I just feel like, like I know Augsburg is like really huge on that like, oh, like, you
gotta find your vocation, like, what's your vocation? You know? So yeah, it's just, it's just a lot
to navigate as a junior right now, like, you have to think about what you're going to do after
you graduate? Like, is this something that it's going to give back to you communities is
something that you're really passionate about? Or you're just doing it because of like, the
financial barrier?
Katie Clark 11:01
Do you see yourself as a civic or citizen professional? Even if you don't use that specific term? If
you do, can you describe that or explain it to others? It was probably a term you use when
you're a LEAD fellow, a civic, or citizen, professional, so kind of somebody who's engaged in the
community around them. Do you see yourself as being an engaged citizen?
S
Shelly Pacheco 11:31
Oh, yeah, I mean, I say right now, I'm pretty involved here at Augsburg. I do a lot of things that
I can reflect on. I don't think I am a like civic professional right now. And even like, after I
graduate, like, just given back to the community, it's just a really huge thing in my life.
Katie Clark 12:00
Great. Is there anything that you wish you would have learned at your time at Augsburg, but
you haven't yet?
S
Shelly Pacheco 12:13
Well I just wish we have a done mentor mentee program. Like as a first gen, there's like a lot
that I had to do for myself. Like there's a lot of places are like even like for my major, like, I'm
not really used to like a how to navigate all of this like for myself, by myself. Like there's no
like, really anyone holding me accountable for my grades. My class, like the classes I gotta
take, like, what? What is there to do after you graduate? So I think if Ausburg had a program,
like a mentee, mentor, mentee program like that will be really helpful for like, first gen students
here at Augsburg.
Katie Clark 12:56
Is there other opportunities or experiences that you wish you would have had to prepare you
Is there other opportunities or experiences that you wish you would have had to prepare you
for your future career while you're here?
S
Shelly Pacheco 13:03
I think just more hands on, like, I know, for my classes, like it's just mostly lecture. And there's
not really like any activities where like, you have to engage with your students, your
classmates, and they're just like, a lot go. Like relationship between like you and your
classmates, I guess, like you go to class, you sit, there, listen to me 45 minutes for lecture. And
after that you leave, like, no one else really talks to each other outside of class. And like, only
when it's like required to like, do class or were like, oh, yeah, I have to tell to like the person
right next to me. And now because I want to because it's required for me to do so I think just
like having more hands on projects will be really helpful.
Katie Clark 13:49
So when we talk about the concepts like civic agency, you know, citizen professional, those
words, in particular, do those words resonate with you? Or do you can you think of other better
terminology that would better kind of get at what we're trying to say? Especially, you know,
with your generation.
S
Shelly Pacheco 14:12
Right. Think like civic engagement is pretty straightforward. Like it says on the term, the like,
yeah, like, it's like about social issues, just bringing awareness to what's going on in the world.
So yeah, I think it is good to use those terms.
Katie Clark 14:33
Great. Well, that's all the questions that I have for you. So is there anything you would like to
share with us that I didn't ask?
S
Shelly Pacheco 14:42
No, I think it's good that like Augsburg really cares about their students and like it's asking
about their experiences with civic engagement and like, with everything that it's that has been
going on, like, I'm glad that like, it doesn't go unnoticed. You know, like, there's actually like
research been done here at Augsburg for students so that's good.
Katie Clark 15:06
Well that concludes our interview so I just want to thank you for your time
S
Shelly Pacheco 15:10
S
Shelly Pacheco 15:10
thank you
Show less
Oral History with Taylor Kuramoto
Wed, 5/18 4:56PM
22:44
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, students, thought, math department, bonner, people, teaching, experience, professional,
civic, teacher, olaf, college, feel, civic leadership, adult, talk, education, community, questions
SPEAKERS
Taylo... Show more
Oral History with Taylor Kuramoto
Wed, 5/18 4:56PM
22:44
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, students, thought, math department, bonner, people, teaching, experience, professional,
civic, teacher, olaf, college, feel, civic leadership, adult, talk, education, community, questions
SPEAKERS
Taylor Kuramoto, Katie Clark
Katie Clark 00:03
All right, so thank you so much for participating in this oral history project with Augsburg
University and the Kettering Foundation, exploring the concept of the citizen professional in
higher education. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of nursing and the
Executive Director of Health commons. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording?
T
Taylor Kuramoto 00:23
My name is Taylor Kuramoto. I graduated from Augsburg in May of 2015. And I'm a high school
math teacher currently.
Katie Clark 00:35
Wonderful. So before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to be
interviewed and having that interviewed stored at Augsburg University, which will be made
available to the public.
T
Taylor Kuramoto 00:46
Yes, I confirm.
Katie Clark 00:50
So, okay, so you just told me when you graduated from Augsburg, could you tell me a little bit
more about your educational background and what you study when you were at Augsburg?
T
Taylor Kuramoto 01:00
Yeah, I was actually a transfer student. So I had started my freshman year. I did my entire
freshman year at St. Olaf and transferred to Augsburg as a sophomore. When I transferred
schools, I basically like had to finish college in like the four years, one year at Augsburg and
three or one year at St. Olaf and three at Augsburg. So I kind of was like forced into majoring in
math, which in hindsight, or when I tell people that it's often like, oh, you you pick something
like actually really hard to major in which I didn't really think about it was just I was a above
average math student in high school and like, had taken calc my freshman year, because I
thought I had to. And math was the only major where I could graduate on time. And I just, there
was no way I could swing funds for a fifth year. So it was math. But it was actually a really great
experience. It was the Math Department and the math professors are like one of my favorite
parts of Augsburg. I did research on campus with oh, I forgot her name. No, but she's in the
social work department. And I wish I remembered, but I did a statistic project of her and I had
professors in the URGO office who helped me get an off campus summer research experience
at the University of Tennessee at Knoxville. And it just being in the math department really
opened up a lot of doors to like experiences that I don't think I ever would have had, like, I'd
never thought I would spend the summer in Knoxville, Tennessee, studying like disease
modeling and cows. And being able to do that then got me a paid trip to a conference in
California, which I never thought I would be doing. But I was at the like national conference for
medical and biological, like modeling and sciences. So that was just yeah, like, I never thought
that was going to be my experience when I started college. And then I actually, so I graduated
Augsburg in May of 2015. And I was abroad, teaching English in South Korea, as like a Fulbright
English Teaching Assistant, and actually came back to Augsburg after that and some more
time, which I'm sure we'll talk about later, and entered the Masters of Arts and Education
program to get licensure to become a high school. Well, 6-12 math teacher. And once I got
licensure, I put pause on the graduate program so that I could get teaching experience. And I
was hired a few months after I finished the program to teach high school in St. Paul Public
Schools at Central High School where I've taught for two years, and I teach her like a range of
ages now.
Katie Clark 04:03
Great. And so in some of these questions, you know, you'll probably talk a little bit about in
multiple different ways. So are multiple different sections, just in case because you've
mentioned some of this already. But yeah. So thinking about your time at Augsburg were the
concepts of the citizen professional civic engagement, civic leadership or civic skills discussed
in your classes or programs. And if so, which ones if you remember.
T
Taylor Kuramoto 04:30
Not really in my classes, I think just by the nature of being in the math department, but that's
where I'm really grateful for being in Bonner leaders or Lead fellows now. It just added another
dimension to my college experience, like I been in the math department was like, kind of like
one section of my life at Augsburg and I played soccer at Augsburg as well, and that was kind
of like another section of it and being in lead fellows, or Bonner leaders at the time we feel is
now. Yeah, just added another dimension to being a college student that I could tell my peers
who were either just in the math department or just on the soccer team didn't have. And like
that experience of yeah, just, I'm really there that's in Lead fellows and Bonner is where like
civic engagement was talked about, that I otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to in like my
coursework or in the people that I engaged with.
Katie Clark 05:42
Totally, where was your placement when you were a Bonner or lead fellow?
T
Taylor Kuramoto 05:47
Well, I was all over the place. I had been at a after school program in the Phillips neighborhood I
had been at, one summer I was at a church. Also, in the Philips neighborhood, I had been an
intern for the Sabo Center. I also did a public achievement with Dennis Donovan for one, that
might have been a whole year actually. So I had been kind of all over to a lot of different
places. And that's something that I try to, like convey to even my students that I teach now is
like, you're going to learn so much more if you interact with people who have different
experiences than you. And that was like a big takeaway for me from being Bonner leaders and
Lead fellows.
Katie Clark 06:39
So in what ways, if any, did civic learning experiences at Augsburg prepare you to be more
ready for your professional role or civic leadership?
T
Taylor Kuramoto 06:54
I think that like teaching in and of itself is like, civic minded. I even thinking about like, yeah,
just reflecting even on, my last answer maybe wasn't in the math department. But it does come
up in a lot of education courses. Like it doesn't teaching doesn't exist in a vacuum and the ways
that the role of a teaching and like the systems of education interact with policies and
healthcare systems, and our transportation and systemic oppression, like it all just interacts
with each other. And that wasn't something that I really thought about as an undergraduate.
But coming back to Augsburg and being in education courses, and also just having an adults
with like, some lived experiences was helpful. I guess it's what I'm trying to say.
Katie Clark 08:05
Sure. So it prepared you to be in the world as it is maybe not as the world as it should be.
T
Taylor Kuramoto 08:12
Yeah, yeah. Sometimes my students will be like, how do you know XYZ things? And I'm like, I'm
just old.
Katie Clark 08:21
Okay. Okay. So have you been able to use your civic learning or community engagement
experience to affect decision making or be an agent of change as a professional?
T
Taylor Kuramoto 08:38
Yeah, like I think being a teacher is all about community. Community in the classroom, but like
also community just like as in the school and in the larger community that your kids come from.
I tried to be at many events for students. It's my third in two weeks now going to some sort of
performance. Tomorrow will be the choir concerts. But and I think to just community is like all
about relationships. And it's, I think it is so hard, nearly impossible to be a good teacher if you
don't have strong relationships with your students with the people who you work with. Yeah.
Katie Clark 09:39
Great. And so this one's a little dense. So if I need to repeat it, okay. But, so, what connections
if any, do you see amongst your professional identity, your vocation and civic leadership? So
professional identity, vocation, very Augsburg, right? and civic leadership. Um and maybe you
don't it doesn't need to be a leading question.
T
Taylor Kuramoto 10:20
Students will often ask me like, if I always knew that I wanted to be a teacher and like, I didn't
think that I wanted to be a teacher. But being at Augsburg, we always talk about vocation. So
it's hard for me to, like convey to students of like, no, I really think this is like my calling. Like, I
think this is what I was, like, meant to do. My professional identity as a teacher. And like, I
really do feel called to teaching and education and in being an Bonner leaders and or lead
fellows, like, I felt called to service. Like, younger me often thought about, like, Oh, I think
working for the government in some sort of, like, research capacity might be what I wanted to
do. But older me was like, that doesn't feel like enough immediate change. And hence, I like,
became a teacher. I think to, like, in turn thinking of civic leadership, like, I can't think of
something more impactful than working with young people. It's always like a joke of like,
teachers are shaping the minds of the future. But sometimes I do look at my students. And I'm
like, wow, you are really brilliant. Like you will do like really great things. That in thinking too,
about, like at St. Paul Public Schools, they're going to start doing graduation requirement for
critical ethnic studies. And a big conversation that we've had at our school, this at our school is
detracking accelerated math classes, because something that we've noticed is that our
accelerated classes are predominantly white and are not accelerated classes are predominantly
students of color. And what I've noticed, because I teach both accelerated and non accelerated
courses is that my classes that are not accelerated, have students of all races and ethnic
backgrounds and they are able to talk to anyone work with anyone. And something that we've
talked about all the time is the ability to, like, work with anyone. And what I've noticed in a lot
of my classes that are mostly white is that they only interact with students who are also white.
And that when they are faced or presented with working with someone who is different than
them, whether that's their race, or ethnicity, or even just somebody who has a different gender
than them or someone who just socializes differently. My students in my accelerated classes
really struggled to work with people who are different from them. And so I think about, I don't
even think about I forced my students to sit in randomly assigned seats every quarter, and they
complain about it. And I always tell them, like, when you leave school, like there are no there
are very few structures of how to practice talking to people who are different than you. And
like, when you are in the world, like everyone is different than everyone, like, you're never the
same as the person that you're working with. And like we have to practice inside these
structures of like, how do I work with talk with ask questions to people who are different than
me? So I think, yeah, in thinking about civic leadership, I take some pride in helping students
be confident in themselves because I know that like that will translate into their adult lives and
their ability to communicate effectively with people just like everyone.
Katie Clark 14:32
That's great. So do you think when you have like a challenge in your current position, or when
you're teaching or you see something in the system? Do you think you're more better equipped
to try to navigate that challenge because of some of your experiences at Augsburg or do you
feel like, you seem like a very like resourceful and diligent and relational person? So do you
think It's just part of who you are, or do you think Augsburg helped to develop some of those
skills during your time at Augsburg?
T
Taylor Kuramoto 15:07
I think Augsburg helps. Um, when when I got to Augsburg I really didn't know like what I wanted
to do or where I wanted to go or any of that and being at all, like when I left as a part of the
reason I left St. Olaf was because I was at like a predominantly white institution that was did
not feel like a safe space. For me as someone who's not white and did not feel like I was
represented in any circles that I was in, socially, or even academically. And I had a lot of like,
negative experiences with students at St. Olaf. And when I got to Augsburg I met so many
people who were like me in the sense of, they were also like, figuring out their identity, how
they move through the world, or they were really confident in who they are, who they are, what
their story is. And it was really like, it felt like a safe space to be just me that I didn't feel like I
could do that at my previous college. And I found a lot of, I also felt like, there were a lot of
people at Augsburg, who, like me, were just like, hustling to get work done. Like, were really
motivated. And I think I maybe just wasn't in the right circles at my first college, but there was
a an aspect of like, community that I felt at Augsburg that I didn't feel like I had at my first one,
whether that's the experience of going through kind of like, racial and ethnic understand
identity, or, and or also just like, working hard, because like, this is this is our one shot and we
like have to take it.
Katie Clark 17:17
Great. So would you say or would you see yourself as a civic or citizen professional, even if you
don't use that term?
T
Taylor Kuramoto 17:31
Taylor Kuramoto 17:31
I think so, I guess like civic or citizen professional? Would that mean like?
Katie Clark 17:41
So probably you probably talked about when you're a Bonner. So basically, like somebody
who's very, like, co creative and engaged in the community around them and can kind of de
emphasize that expert role.
T
Taylor Kuramoto 17:54
Yeah. All the time, kids will be like, is this the answer? And I'm like, You tell me because like,
you have all the knowledge as well. Kids will often ask students will often ask things like, Ah,
this, you know, XYZ, ABC thing isn't fair. And I'm like, It's not fair. What can you do about it?
Like, I am, I am one person. Yes, I am an adult. And I hold this assumed authority as your
educator, but like, your voice, and your power is probably even stronger and more than mine.
So like, what can you do about it? What could you say about it? Who could you organize? Yeah,
and I mean, that's something that I tried to do in classrooms and thinking just about like,
oftentimes, teachers view themselves as the people who hold all the knowledge and all the
power. And that is like the opposite of what I try to do. I've really tried to focus on getting
students to build skills to answer their own questions and solve their own problems. So that is
their teacher and in some art, am in some ways, obsolete, that you don't really need me to
answer your questions, because you know how to answer your own question.
Katie Clark 19:11
Yeah, well, I think one thing that I'm kind of finding throughout these interviews is that
sometimes the language of civic professional or citizen professional, they're kind of used
interchangeably, doesn't really resonate with students at times. So I just wonder if, if the word
is meaningful to you at all? Or if there's a better word or if it seems like it's a good description,
or a good fit, as long as we kind of describe what it is?
T
Taylor Kuramoto 19:45
Yeah, I guess like when I hear the phrase, civic, professional or citizen and professional, it
makes me think of like someone whose role is in service of others, and I don't know if that's
really a correct or approiate way to think of it. Yeah,
Katie Clark 20:03
that's a really good way of saying it. Yeah. I don't know that that's exactly what we're trying to
get at. Right. Thank you for that. So two more questions. And this one is asking you more. Is
there anything that you wish you learned at your time at Augsburg that you didn't? Is there
other opportunities or experience you wish that you had to prepare you for your future career,
or just being in the world as it is?
T
Taylor Kuramoto 20:35
I can't think of anything, either. All of the things that I've the major things that come to my
mind when I think about things I've struggled with after leaving Augsburg are like detailed
things about being an adult, like which health insurance plan I have to choose and like, what's a
deductible, like all of these things that you learn at a certain age? And like, yeah, they matter.
But in the long run, like you have health insurance, or like, filing my taxes is always a pain. But
I've I've, in all of my experiences at Augsburg, I feel I left feeling well, at the time, I didn't leave
feeling very prepared. When I look back on all the experiences I had, I'm really grateful for
everything that I did while I was at Augsburg because when I talked to other people, their
experiences in college were pretty singular, like either they were just doing their major, or they
were like, some of my some people that I know from college, maybe like their highlight of
college was played a sport, or, and their academic work was not as interesting to them, or they
didn't have an experience like Bonner or Sabo scholars or, you know, some other activity to to
balance their experience. I left as an adult looking back, I feel really grateful that I had all of
these different dimensions to to what I did in college.
Katie Clark 22:15
That's beautiful. So the last question is, is there anything you wish that I would have would that
you'd like to share that I didn't ask about? So.
T
Taylor Kuramoto 22:31
I can't think of anything.
Katie Clark 22:34
Great. So that concludes our interview. So thank you for your time today.
Show less
Oral History with Anna Cox (2022)
Fri, 5/13 12:44PM
32:31
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, students, civically, learning, experiences, people, sabo, question, professional, skills,
important, intentional, workshops, pandemic, engaged, thinking, civic, internship, work, connections
SPEAKERS
K... Show more
Oral History with Anna Cox (2022)
Fri, 5/13 12:44PM
32:31
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, students, civically, learning, experiences, people, sabo, question, professional, skills,
important, intentional, workshops, pandemic, engaged, thinking, civic, internship, work, connections
SPEAKERS
Katie Clark, Anna Cox
Katie Clark 00:02
All right, so thank you so much for participating in this oral history project with Augsburg
University and the Kettering Foundation exploring the concept of citizen professional in higher
ed. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of nursing and the executive director of
the Augsburg health commons. Can you please introduce yourself for the recording?
A
Anna Cox 00:23
Yeah. My name is Ana Cox. I use she/they pronouns. I am a recent graduate of Augsburg.
Katie Clark 00:29
Great. And so before we continue, I just want to confirm that you give consent to being
interviewed and having that interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made
available to the public?
A
Anna Cox 00:41
Yes, I consent.
Katie Clark 00:42
Great. So when did you graduate from Augsburg University?
A
Anna Cox 00:49
So I graduated the year 2022, like a week ago. So yeah, just recently.
So I graduated the year 2022, like a week ago. So yeah, just recently.
Katie Clark 00:59
Great. Can you tell me a little bit about your educational background and what you studied
when you were at Augsburg?
A
Anna Cox 01:08
Yeah, so I ended up graduating with a degree in Gender, Sexuality and Women's Studies and
with a minor in social welfare. The social social welfare part is social work. But I only had it as a
minor. I didn't complete the major. But that's what I graduated with. It kind of had a journey to
get there. But ended up with women's study.
Katie Clark 01:32
Excellent. And why did you choose to come to Augsburg?
A
Anna Cox 01:36
So my grandma actually went here when she was in college, which was about 70 years ago.
And I I'm actually her last grandkid, I'm the only grandkid that went to her alma mater. So she's
very, she's very excited. And one of the reasons that I really looked into Augsburg was we were
familiar with the school because of her. She had a wonderful experience. But I also really
wanted to go to a school that was diverse. That was in the cities that was small liberal arts. And
Augsburg really had kind of all the boxes checked for me. And then when I actually did my tour,
it just felt so different from the other schools that I had visited. So that's really what brought
me here.
Katie Clark 02:33
So thinking back at your time at Augsburg, where the concepts of the citizen professional civic
engagement, civic leadership, or civic skills, discuss in your classes, or any programs that you
are involved with?
A
Anna Cox 02:50
So I was really lucky that my first year. I got really quickly engaged with leadership. I worked in
the Sabo Center through the Environmental Stewardship Committee, and worked there for both
my first and sophomore year, um, through specifically that program. Later, I had joined Sabo
through lead fellows. But we had talked a lot about being civically engaged, and kind of
growing our leadership skills and in that sense, and a lot of that came from my internship with
the Sabo Center. I haven't heard it in my classes. But my first a sophomore year, I was a bio
major, and then I switched to undecided. And so I wasn't too surprised that I wasn't hearing
civically engaged things in those classes. But I would say that when I moved into Women's
Studies and Social Work, it became more of a relevant topic. But a lot of what I got was through
being involved in Sabo, and all of the workshops that we had, and really what they taught us in
that, but yeah.
Katie Clark 04:15
Excellent. Where did you have your field placement for when you were in the Lead fellow role?
A
Anna Cox 04:22
So for my placement, I was at the Minnesota Youth Collective. So that's what I was doing.
Katie Clark 04:29
Great. So which of the experiences, and some of these questions are a little redundant, but just
trying to see if there's anything else you wanted to add, but what experiences if any standout
as meaningful opportunities to learn integrate lessons across coursework and community
engaged?
A
Anna Cox 04:49
All right, it froze up a little bit. Could you repeat that?
Katie Clark 04:52
Yes, it did. I'm sorry. I don't know what's going on here. Let me make sure it's making sure my
wifi was on the right thing,. Sorry about that. Okay. Okay, so what experiences, if any standout
as meaningful opportunities to learn, reflect and integrate lessons across coursework and
community engaged learning? And you kind of answered this. So it was, you know, it seems like
maybe there was, you know, what was in your classes at the beginning, right was different.
What you were learning and community engaged work until you switch? But yeah, was there
anything that was really meaningful opportunities to kind of connect those two, if any?
A
Anna Cox 05:45
Yeah. I think that in a lot of my Social Work and Women's Studies courses, because we had a
field placement attached, or we had an internship that was attached to our courses, that our
experiences in our internship were really important. I would say that for my internship with the
Minnesota Youth Collective, particularly around voting, voter education. And we just had a
recent Minneapolis election around two really important topics, rent stabilization, and then the
creation of the Department of Safety. And so because there was so much history and
knowledge that we needed to know and let students know of, I think that was a really key one
for me that really well was like, Okay, we're learning about being civically engaged. But also we
had with the Department of Safety, we had the George Floyd event. And so it's just, there's so
many things to learn, and so many things that are just beyond just talking about voter
education, that you have to talk about history and like white supremacy and talk about a larger
topic. And so because that connected to that, we talked about that in my courses of how, how
are you culturally competent in your work? Or what are things historically, that you need to
know. So when you are in your internship, you're just more aware and like, are better able to
kind of work on your project?
Katie Clark 07:41
That was really powerful. And I can't imagine what your experiences might have been, like,
between the pandemic and the social unrest, and then thinking about your connections that
you've had in the community, like, just wow. So, um, in what ways did civic learning
experiences at Augsburg prepare you to be ready for a professional role or civic leadership, if
any, if you feel like it did, I guess it's kind of a loaded question. But do you feel I will reward that
some of the experiences prepared you to be ready for a professional role or civic leadership?
A
Anna Cox 08:24
Oh, yeah, absolutely. When I was working in the Sabo Center, I also was working as an
orientation leader. And part of the orientation position was attending the LEAD fellows
workshops, or the Sabo workshops. And they weren't required of us, some of them were, some
of them weren't. But it was to our benefit that we would go to them. And a lot of them were
around developing leadership skills, or learning how to organize or you know, things like that,
that are just so staple skills for anyone. And even though maybe I wasn't interested in nonprofit
work, that if you know, down the road, that I would be I have those skills and have that
experience that I can draw from. But also it taught, it teaches you a lot about really working
with other people who are different than you and being able to hone in on your own leadership
style, but also learning how to work with people who are of a different leadership style than you
are. And one of the things that I really found really helpful is that we were kind of allowed to
make mistakes because we're in college, we're allowed to ask questions, we're allowed to make
mistakes more than And, you know, we would if if it was a full time position, but because it was
an internship or because we were doing these workshops, it we were allowed to kind of
struggle with it, which is nice that we were able to get that experience beforehand and get
those skills beforehand. So now that I know that I'm, it's like, okay, I don't have to go into a job
and like, oh my gosh, I don't know how to do this, I already know how to. And so I really think of
the workshops that I did the experiences that I had, as just really key important skills that I
wouldn't have gotten anywhere else.
Katie Clark 10:46
Okay, so have you been able to use and you've already kind of answered this your civic
learning or community engagement experience, to affect decision making, or be an agent of
change as a professional?
A
Anna Cox 10:59
Anna Cox 10:59
Yeah, as I'm looking into full time positions, or thinking about what my career goals are, a lot of
that is thinking about, how do I use, you know, the skills that I have, in my own workplace. And
like, especially when I was working in the Campus Life Office, we were student workers, but we
were also known as paraprofessional student workers, that there was just an extra bar that was
kind of the standard for us. And part of that was using the knowledge and skills from those
workshops and implementing it into our work, because we worked so closely with incoming first
years or first year students, or really younger students who wanted to be in leadership
positions, that it was really important for us to know how to organize or how to advocate for
students. Or, like, when I was in student government, really using those skills of how do you
talk to people in a different power dynamic than you are? How do you advocate for things that
you want, in a way that, like, is going to make an impact on campus and is not just, you know,
like, some, you know, you're not just asking for something, but like, can really implement the
change. And so those are kind of things that I've seen that I've been able to do in my work with
student government in the Campus Life Office, kind of directly advocating for students, but also
directly working with students. And like, being in relationship with them and knowing how to
like navigate, kind of those spaces with them.
Katie Clark 13:04
So this question isn't on the script, but just because rarely do I feel like students are so self
aware, but also like, you're clearly an expert in civic engagement and civic skills, and really
thinking about how to be political in all aspects of life. So given that I, this is one thing that I
struggle with a lot, and I'm wondering your thoughts on it. But I find that a lot of times when
we're teaching about this in classes, like you know, what you can do about issues you're
seeing, and obviously, mine's mostly in healthcare and social justice. So health and health
inequities, I find that students are quick to polarize, instead of try to find common ground, and I
hear you almost talking about building that common ground, which I think we need more of.
And so for you, is that something that you learned? Or is that something that you've just always
kind of been? A person of, is just trying to kind of meet people where they're at and see where
you can kind of agree to disagree or come together on something like, where would you say
you learn that skill?
A
Anna Cox 14:24
I actually really attribute it to my Women's Studies degree, because I actually just recently
wrote a paper about this, but I really try in the work that I do to have, like a feminist pedagogy.
And part of like, as I'm reading feminist theories and feminist authors, one, I forgot who it is.
But there's this feminist author that basically talks about how like we should be talking about
our differences in order for us to, like, band together, that our differences are really important.
And when we don't talk about them. It's, it's not making aware of the actual issues going on.
And I think there's needs to be a good balance of talking about our differences, but also saying,
We're super similar, or we're, you know, we have these similarities. And I think that's kind of
where I was able to kind of gain that skill, because so much of the things that I've learned in
the classroom are feminist theories. And so when I think about the work that I do, in, you know,
my professional life, but also with leadership development, and with students, it's having that
feminist pedagogy mindset. And really incorporating that into the work. But also, I think,
something that I think we've kind of just I think a lot of students have really learned from just
being at Augsburg is having a sense of being inclusive. And I think that that has really been
fostered throughout my four years here, of who is at the table who's missing from the table.
Okay, we're in this meeting. And we have this many white people at the table, or we have this
many cisgendered people at the table. What does that mean for our team? And like, why are
we? What is the demographic? What does it mean, and especially because when I was working
in the Sabo Center, first, in the Environmental Stewardship Committee, we had a lot of talks
about race, because environmental work is pretty, it's pretty white. And it's really white
centered. And so we had a lot of conversations about identities about being inclusive and
having more of an intersectional frame of the work we did. So I think those are really things
that kind of impacted a lot of the way that I think about things now and how I work now.
Katie Clark 17:18
Excellent. Um, so this question is a little dense, so I'll can say it again, if you need me to help
more students ask for to be repeated. So what connections if any, do you see among your
professional identity, your vocation, and civic leadership? Professional, your vocation I know,
that's an Augsburg term, and civic leadership. Oh, okay. You can take your time too.
A
Anna Cox 17:55
I think a kind of connection. I think is being intentional. That's what I would say is being
intentional. I think I'm gonna go through all three to kind of make the connection, but I think
being civically engaged, I think it can be really easy to fall into the trap of being performative.
And just getting something done to just do it and to show it off, but not actually being
thoughtful, and being intentional with what you're doing. And I saw that really in, like student
government, it's really, it can be really energizing and really exciting to you know, whip out all
of these letters to the President, I, I'm forgetting what the name is right now, but are all of
these projects, but if they don't mean anything, when they actually aren't sustainable, or that
they don't actually make a change? And so I think really being intentional. I think with vocation,
I think that now because of the pandemic, really finding joy, and really finding my passion in
my career is just something that has been always important to me, but I think now that the
pandemic has, that we've been, you know, through the rough parts of the pandemic and kind of
still through it, the I really had to think of, okay, what do I actually want to do? What am I
passionate about? What am I going to wake up and be energized about? And be excited about?
And so really being intentional with what I see for myself. And then I think, my professional
development, kind of in the same sense of being intentional about how am I developing as a
leader? How am I being a better colleague for my, for my peers? How are the things that I'm
learning and reading important for the health of you know, my workspace, but also the
relationships that I've made. So I think being intentional for all three of them, it's just really like
sitting back for a little bit being reflective and thoughtful. It's just kind of a common thread that
I've seen.
Katie Clark 18:43
That was beautiful. Okay, so the next question is, do you see yourself as a civic or citizen
professional? Even if you don't specifically use that term? If so, how do you describe that or
explain that to others?
A
Anna Cox 21:39
I think one way that I kind of think about it is that I try to think of it as, like, being the person
who's willing to ask the question. I think I had said this earlier, but like, who is at our table?
Who's not at our table? And even though you might not use the title "civically blank", but
having that, like, thought of who's at the table who's not? There was also this thing that I saw
about the the tenets of white supremacy, and how people kind of live into that without
knowing. And one of them is like, being defensive, or being really strict with time. And so I think
even willing to go against those things, and to be in constantly anti-racist work, that even doing
things like that are being civically engaged. And really being thoughtful of how do you show up
to spaces? And how do you make space for other people? And so that's kind of how I think
about it, of even you might not think of like, Oh, I'm specifically doing this, that, you know, the
work that you're doing is, in that sense?
Katie Clark 23:29
And so here is a question I have for you that I kind of struggle with is, I think oftentimes in our
coursework, or in some of those workshops you were describing, we use the word citizen or
civic professional. And I'm wondering your thoughts on if there is a better word that would
resonate, especially with like your generation, because I feel like there's some pushback back
on whether it feels too grandiose, like, oh, you know, I'm striving to be that, but I wouldn't say I
am one or the language in itself. So do you have any, I guess, how do you react to the the
terms itself itself? And do you have a suggestion for a better way to connect it to students, if
any?
A
Anna Cox 24:30
I see two sides of it. I think there's one part if someone sat down and said, This is what civically
or a civic profession looks like, or this is what this means. It's like, oh, okay, this makes sense.
So, I think that a lot of times, a lot of these kind of big words are used at Augsburg and a lot of
kind of buzzwords like when we say intersectionality or when we say inclusive or when we say
diversity, what does that mean? And so I think it's the same thing of like, Okay, what does that
mean? Like? What is? What's the specific meaning? And how would that be reflective of like a
biology major or someone, you know, an education major? And so I think it's so tricky because
like, it can be so broad yet so specific because of what you're, what you're studying or what
your career goals are, or what your goals in life are. I'm not sure what word or phrase or label
to use it. But I don't mind the Civic Professional. I think there just needs to be more awareness
and education, but I'm not sure. I think if I had a little more time to think of something I could.
Katie Clark 25:58
Yeah, no, no pressure, just wondering your thoughts on it. That's great. So there, this question
is one kind of asking you, is there anything you wish you would have learned at Augsburg that
you didn't? Are there experiences you wish you would have had to prepare for your future
career?
A
Anna Cox 26:22
Oh, okay, this is not a bold statement, but I'm gonna have a bolder explanation. I have
absolutely no regrets. I think I have learned everything that I could in the journey that I've had
here at Augsburg and I think that outside of Augsburg, I think there's, of course, more learning
to do. But I think that everything that I could get out of Augsburg, I could. But I say that,
because I constantly said yes to things. When there is an opportunity, and I could fit into my
schedule, I said, Yes. I challenged myself, I pushed myself out of my comfort zone. Like if I think
of first year me, like if we met, it would be like looking at two different people. And every
opportunity that I was given, I jumped on, and every connection that I could make, I made
those connections. And I think when students say, Oh, I missing this, or I didn't have this
opportunity it's because they didn't take it. And I'm really not trying to be too harsh or bold. But
Augsburg has all of these amazing opportunities and connections. But it's on the responsibility
of the student to take it. And with my own experience, I really made the most of the time that I
had here. And I have absolutely no regrets. And I think I learned everything that I could have.
And so that's really, that's my response. I really got the last drop out of the school for me.
Katie Clark 28:08
That's right, I know there's gonna be people who are listening to this that are and I'm sure
you've met Harry Boyte. But there are scholars that are authors and some of the same content
as Harry and one of them in particular always wants to know, how do students who are like
yourself who do throw themselves into these situations and push themselves to uncomfortable
situations? What what drives you? What is that? Is that just who you innately are or, you know,
how can we tap into that into other people? Or is that just something that you think is just part
of your nature?
A
Anna Cox 28:47
I actually just recently said this in a past discussion, but I said, I am not me without the people
who I surround myself with. I'm only me to an extent, you know, like, I'm great, you know, but
I'm also great because of the people who I surround myself with that my community because
it's so strong and so supportive and pushes me to do more, that I would not be me without
them. In my first couple of years at Augsburg, I had to find my people, I had to find people who
wanted to be engaged and who wanted to be pushed the same amount that I wanted to be,
and I found those people eventually. And, you know, I think it's funny how we kind of make the
joke that like, Oh, they're they're like the same leaders at Augsburg, you know, like they start
out first year and then they always are the same senior year. And it's because we all have we
all come in with, I want to make a change. I want to do more. I want to you know, Have a great
college experience. And then we encourage each other and support each other. And then all of
a sudden, we're doing these really big things at Augsburg. But I think it's because of who you
meet and who you surround yourself with, if you're only surrounding yourself with people who
want to focus on classes, and that is your goal. That is totally okay. But that was not something
that I wanted for myself. And I was with people who were like minded, and who had the same
values and goals that I did.
Katie Clark 30:37
Excellent. Well, the last question is really, is there anything you wanted to add that I didn't ask
you about?
A
Anna Cox 31:03
I think that the two most transformative experiences that I've had on campus was being
involved in the Sabo Center and being involved in student government. Those were the two
transformative places that has made me who I am now. And if I had not been involved in those
two things, I would not be the leader that I am now. So I think that is just kind of where I want
to leave it off.
Katie Clark 31:29
And could you also conclude with telling us the award that you recently won at graduation?
A
Anna Cox 31:38
I got the Marina Christensen Justice Award , which honors a student at graduation who has
been really involved in social justice things and advocating for students. It was, it was a little
surprise that I got it and not because I don't think that I was not that I'm not worthy of it. It's
just there's so many wonderful leaders here. And I think that any one of us could have gotten it.
So it was really humbling that they had chosen me. And that was really exciting.
Katie Clark 32:23
Great, well, thank you so much. So that concludes our interview. And I just want to thank you
for your time.
Show less
Oral History with Barbara Sabino Pina (2022)
Thu, 3/31 4:31PM
29:14
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, people, civic engagement, concepts, physician scientist, professional, positions, civic,
learned, year, skills, type, question, classes, citizen, apply, future, student, prepared, opportunities... Show more
Oral History with Barbara Sabino Pina (2022)
Thu, 3/31 4:31PM
29:14
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, people, civic engagement, concepts, physician scientist, professional, positions, civic,
learned, year, skills, type, question, classes, citizen, apply, future, student, prepared, opportunities
SPEAKERS
Katie Clark, Barbara Sabino Pina
Katie Clark 00:02
All right, so thank you so much for participating in this oral history project with Augsburg
University and the Kettering Foundation exploring the concept of the citizen professional in
higher education. My name is Katie Clark, and I'm an assistant professor of nursing. Could you
please introduce yourself for the recording?
B
Barbara Sabino Pina 00:22
My name is Barbara Sabino Pina, I use her pronouns, and I am a third year at Augsburg
University, studying biochemistry with a minor in leadership studies.
Katie Clark 00:35
Great. Before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed
and having that interviewed stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the
public?
B
Barbara Sabino Pina 00:45
Yes, I consent.
Katie Clark 00:46
Great. So when will you graduate from Augsburg?
B
Barbara Sabino Pina 00:51
Barbara Sabino Pina 00:51
I would graduate hopefully in a year. So in spring of 2023.
Katie Clark 00:57
Great. And so can you tell me a little bit about your educational background? You mentioned
your majors, so kind of what you're currently studying, and maybe what you hope to do when
you graduate.
B
Barbara Sabino Pina 01:13
I was born in Venezuela. So my first years of school having my native country in Venezuela. I
graduated actually from high school there. But because the education system works differently
in my country then here. I had to go through another year of high school here. So I graduated
from Burnsville High School, after doing basically my last year here, and I decided to attend
Augsburg University. I am currently a third year I'm studying biochemistry. And I also have a
minor in leadership studies. And what I hope to do with this is that I, since I was really young I
always enjoy medicine, and like, the biomedical field. So even though, you know, things can
change, and my decisions also can change with time, at the moment, I want to be a physician
scientist. So my plans are to apply for medical school on next cycle. And I mean, like, the cycle
of 2023. So I hope what I want to do with this is that I really enjoy working on a lab. And I really
enjoy going through the whole answer the question and tried to solve a problem with the
research that is done. But I also like the patient interactions. I also like to talk with people, you
know, having interactions with them, talking with them, understanding what's going on, what's
the problem? Or how, in which ways can I use my, my skills or anything that I know to help
them? And how can they also like, I can learn from them, and develop as well as an individual.
So I think so far, that's the plan.
Katie Clark 03:17
Being in the medical world myself, I think that that is much needed. So I'm excited to hear that.
So just thinking about your time at Augsburg have the concepts of the citizen, professional,
civic engagement, civic leadership, or civic skills been discussed in your classes or programs
that you've been involved with? And if so, which ones if you remember?
B
Barbara Sabino Pina 03:41
I would say a couple of them, not necessarily in my classes, because as I mentioned, I am
biochemistry major. So a lot of times wouldn't really like we wouldn't mention those things, but
because of my minor and because I decided to do a Leadership Studies minor. When I took LST
296,that was student development, leadership class, I did talk a little bit about what it means to
be like a citizen and like what it means to have like different intersectionalities of identities.
And so we kind of like talk a little bit of that, in the surface, I wouldn't be able to say that I like
an expert, or like I understand completely the concepts. But I also have to say that I am part of
the LEAD Fellows Program here at Augsburg. And so through that I did learn more about civic
civic engagement and basically how to, like connect with the expert community, but also with
the community around Augsburg. And basically what it means to like a create community and
how to engage and how to organize, mobilize people. I think I did have a little bit of connection
through that, but it's probably because of the decision that I made to get involved in the
program that I decided to be part of. So yeah, That's kind of what I would say.
Katie Clark 05:02
So what experiences stand out as meaningful opportunities, and you kind of answered this, but
maybe ask it again and see if anything else comes up, to learn, reflect and integrate lessons
across coursework and community engaged learning.
B
Barbara Sabino Pina 05:19
As I mentioned, yes, I mentioned a couple of those activities. I also would add, when I was a
first year, I applied to be part of the Emerging Leaders Program here at Augsburg University. I
think that was one of the best decisions that I made at the beginning, because I learned a lot
about myself in that class. But I also got to meet a lot of people that kind of like I continued to
have relationships with, through all these three years that I've been at Augsburg. And that
connected me with all their staff members, when they actually one person that I met through
the Emerging Leaders Program connected me with LaToya, which is basically the director
manager for the LEAD Fellows that that's how I ended up applying for it. So I think the
Emerging Leaders Programs was like the first door that I got to be like, the first that I enter, to
get through all my other leadership opportunities are after that, I got to be an orientation
leader, and then an AugSem leader, and then I got other positions that are expert, like student
program assistant, and eventually the LEAD intern position. So I would say those are kind of
like really meaningful positions that I had that so far.
Katie Clark 06:33
So I guess for me, I'm wondering like being in the biology, or they might refer to STEM courses,
is there a way that could that you envision things like civic engagement or civic skills could
better be weaved in that curriculum?
B
Barbara Sabino Pina 06:51
Even though I don't have a specific answer for that, in terms of like ideas, or how to do it, I
think we should try to find ways to do it. I think the STEM fields are really wonderful. And I
wouldn't be a STEM, if I didn't enjoy it, or I didn't like what I'm doing. I really enjoy it. I really
like it. But sometimes I wish there were more ways to connect it with the real world, not just on
that on a textbook, or just based on what it's supposed to be for the exam. But a little bit more
like, again, teaching to this because this is helpful for you and just in your career. But let's see
how we can use this information to create things that can help the environment for example,
like biology majors, they know a lot about, like, they take a lot of environmental causes, like
how can we use this concept to actually create something better for more sustainable for on
campus, or more sustainable for the whole community at Augsburg? Oh, I think like probably
like, what I try to say is more like, I would love it to be more applicable. Or like would there
would be like some type of project instead of an exam. And then you have to the project to
basically find a way to use this concepts outside of the classroom, or something like that. That
kind of like would bring all the critical thinking skills for the students. And also, it would be more
engaging and more enjoyable. I think.
Katie Clark 08:14
Thank you for that. So in what ways has civic learning experiences at Augsburg prepared you to
think about your professional role or civic leadership? Whether it's currently or when you move
on to med school and into your chosen profession?
B
Barbara Sabino Pina 08:32
I'm just to make sure I understand the question Is it like how has Augsburg prepared me more
like in my career field basically?
Katie Clark 08:40
Yeah. So do you see some of those civic learning experiences prepare you as a professional?
B
Barbara Sabino Pina 08:47
Yes, I believe so. I think more than what I have learned in the like my major itself, it's more of
the things I'm getting involved with like in organizations all those positions that I got through
the years, my current position as a LEAD fellow or LEAD intern. I think all those positions
prepare me more in the aspects of yeah, my classes did a lot of the work on like knowledge,
like okay, I know how to have this lab skills, for example, but my leadership opportunities help
me to okay, how do I express my ideas? I have all this knowledge, but how do I actually send it
to people in a way that they can understand? How can I have a conversation with someone that
looks different? Someone that has a different background, different ethnicity? How can I have
conversations with people have different experiences than me? How to be comfortable being
uncomfortable? You know, like, like having uncomfortable conversations or things that aren't
usually talked about, um, how do we prepare for an interview even for things like that, just like
how to talk how to express correctly my skills to say what I want to say? Just all those kinds of
things that might seem like, I don't know, little or little things that are still important, and that
can tell a lot of your character and your personality, I think I learned a lot outside of the
classroom. And through those leadership positions. Of course, I made a lot of mistakes on the
way, like for sure, at the beginning, I would be thinking so much just to say the same sentence,
or I would freak out in front of people, because I just, you know, public speaking can be nerve
racking sometimes. But because I keep continue doing it and putting myself on those, you
know, positions that kind of helped me to feel more comfortable and end up applying for more
and wanting to do more. And at the end, I kind of found what I wanted to do, you know, even
when, because I decided, for example, to be part of research my first year, probably wouldn't
even know that I want to be a physician scientist. So I think like getting out there and get out of
my comfort zone, through this leadership positions helped me a lot to discover me as myself,
as a person.
Katie Clark 11:08
Just sounds like you just, it's who you are, that's really brought me down this path. And that's
so beautiful. Have you been able to use your civic learning or community engagement
experience to affect your decision making or be an agent of change as a professional?
B
Barbara Sabino Pina 11:25
I would say yes, my first years at Augburg, I learned through those like civic engagement
positions, like an orientation leader and AugSem leader. As part of campus life a student
program assistant, I learned a lot of like different communities and about the Augsburg
community and outside of Augburg as well. And after a while, not just in those positions, I got
to use those skills. But after I wanted to do something that had to do more with my career that
is medicine, I ended up applying for a direct care professional position. And I believe that one of
the reasons why I got this position was because I was able to show through work, the work that
I did the past that I was able to work with people and do what it's needed to do for the decision.
And so I believe that everything that I've learned so far has made me like a capable student
and a capable just professional in general, to perform the tasks that I should be doing like for
the physicians for the my career path that I've chosen. Because my the medicine even though
it has to do a lot with people think of science, you know, everything just science, and you're
supposed to learn so many things you study and study, study, don't get out. A lot of it is people
interaction, you know, like, understanding how to, like, understand what's going on in the body
and like, understand how you can talk with your patient or how to understand what's going on
in their families. Because sometimes, ah, a lot of the things that happen, they will be like, did
you do this? And they're like, No, I didn't, but then you like, ask another person is like, no,
actually, they did. And I think that kind of trust comes from, if you actually show yourself your
humanity. And like, with honesty, and they are capable to think like, okay, I can trust my
doctor, you know, instead of this person that just gonna knock on me and say things is like, oh,
no, this person is actually trying to do something good for me. Um, so I think I don't know, I feel
like in general, all the positions that I have so far, and a couple of things I've mentioned, they
have prepared me to be a better professional in the future.
Katie Clark 13:53
Well, it sounds like you're very relational, too, which is so important to some of these concepts
and practice too. So this question is one that's a little dense. So let me say so what connections
if any, do you see among professional identity, your vocation and civic leadership?
B
Barbara Sabino Pina 14:18
Actually, I think that's a really good question. It's kind of interesting, because through my
through the summer, before my third year, I had this moment in which I didn't I was like,
wondering, like, what do I want to do with my life because I have all these things that I enjoy.
But I thought I have to pick one thing. I cannot just if I'm a leader, I cannot be a doctor and I'm
a doctor, I can't you know, I because we have a lot of stereotypes, that when you do
something, you only can do that. And I think during in that summer, I just took a lot of time for
myself and reflect on everything I've done so far. And what do I want to do? And like, what
makes me happy? Like, what do I enjoy doing, because I want to continue doing that, that I
enjoy. And I think it's, I was really grateful to understand and notice that in my professional
career, I want to be a physician scientist, right? So I want to be hired in a lab, I want to be able
to get all these questions, answer I want to be able to, you know, provide something in the
future that would help to an invention, or some type of technology that would improve
someone else's health. And then on my vocation, I noticed that I love teaching, for example, I
actually really enjoy talking with other people about the knowledge that I have are acquired,
because I think so many things are just so cool. And I'm like, I want to share it. So I noticed that
I love teaching, I love talking, I love communicating. There's this other side of it, that I'm can
can connect, even though I didn't notice before, like it actually can connect to my profession.
And then the civic engagement part portion of it. Personally, I am really passionate about a
specific community, which are the undocumented students and DACA because I am an
immigrant. So as an immigrant, I did I face a moment in which I also was undocumented, and I
faced a lot of challenges. And it was hard, especially as a student, because I wanted to have a
future, but I didn't know how to, without, you know, any type of documents that can help me to
apply for things. And so that saved that that first connection to civic engagement through my
own struggle help me to be like, think of, I actually want to do something in the future that
helped me to help others, not just like, not something that has my own self interest, you know,
and that can help others in the process. And even though these three things might seem like,
let's think about triangle or something, or they might see, like, so far away from each other,
they actually I feel like they connect, because I can still continue doing my work as a physician
scientist, and probably create some type of, I don't know, foundation in the future to help future
doctors that are actually undocumented. Right. Daca in the same way, oh, this process needs
me to communicate with people need me to do research about people like searching for people
that are interested in helping me in this specific issue. Um, and I still, like I have, can have
conversations, I can teach others and others can teach me in the process. So I personally feel
like I don't I all of them relate in a way and I'm grateful that I know I'm capable of noticing that
and that I'm because I think that's what's gonna guide me eventually to a better like, a better
and happy life, doing what I enjoy to do. So I hope that answer the question, I'm not sure if it.
Katie Clark 18:12
It completely does. And I would think as you enter into these systems to you might see yourself
thinking about how to change the systems within which you very much spoke to as well. So
wonderful. Do you see yourself as a civic or citizen professional? Even if you don't use that
specific term? So if so, how would you describe that? Or explain it to others? If you see yourself
as a civic or citizen professional?
B
Barbara Sabino Pina 18:44
I would say yes, more in the working kind of like still becoming, you know, like trained, I think
we can always improve. But I would say yes, because at least for me, what it means is that I am
a leader, that it's trying to create some type of change, that it's going to help others to succeed
in anything that it entails. And I'm trying to do it not just, I'm not just talking about it, but I'm
actually trying to use my own skills, and all the work that I've done so far to make that happen.
So that makes them more like I don't know if that's where the professional part comes in, like
more like instead of just you thinking about what to do with are you actually getting together
with other people or doing some work about it, or being part of a program that helps you to do
some work about it. But I would say that I feel like I am, just that it's more like on the working
process. I still feel like there's a lot to learn many concepts to grasp as well. Well, um, and
develop as a better citizen as a better individual as a better, I don't know, person in team
player. If I were to explain this word to someone, I would probably say like, as long as you are,
you have passion to do some type of work for others and for yourself like something that you
have some type of self interest in, in the process, you are gathering, like you're organizing
people and you're mobilizing people, then I think that would make you a civic, citizen
professional.
Katie Clark 20:43
What's interesting, this is my third interview so far. And I really hear you and others explain
before you were probably even introduced to these concepts that you were doing civic agency
and being a citizen professional. So I'm wondering, do you think that there's better
terminology? Or have you heard of other terminology to really name some of these things that
you are just doing? Or do these concepts, the way they're described, resonate with you?
B
Barbara Sabino Pina 21:17
I would say, I don't know if I'm the right person to say there's better or not. But I think there is
maybe easier ways to explain the type of work that it's done. Since I feel like a lot of people can
be a little intimidated by how it sounds, they might feel like, what they hear is like, oh, no, that
sounds like too much. And I feel like I've done nothing, or I've done so little. And you know,
sometimes a lot of people tend to humble themselves a lot, or more. So I think there's probably
easier ways to maybe get across this concept. So other people can actually identify more
themselves with it. Because personally, I feel like if a few years ago, you asked me the same
question. I would have been first, like, what is this? And second? Oh, I don't think I am, like,
capable or I am not. Yeah, like worth do actually just say that type of title in front of me,
because it sounds like a big word. Um, so that's personally why I feel I probably think there's
like maybe, I don't know, a specific won't be the better word to say maybe. I don't know, I some
type of leader, maybe some are in the leader to want something in there might help to make it
more understanding more, yeah, more practical and more understanding for other people. But I
can see how it can be a tricky word to use around specifically people of my age. Because I think
as part of the LEAD fellows, for example, I see a lot of people doing great things and like
working on things that are really like, awesome. And I know there's so passionate about it. But
when you ask them what they do, sometimes they just like, Oh, they're like, Oh, I just this little
thing, you know, it's not big deal. And I'm like, What are you talking about? This is awesome.
But I think it's just people are not used to like thinking of just big words when they refer to
themselves.
Katie Clark 23:16
I completely agree. So thank you, I appreciate you confirming that. Is there anything you wish
you have you would have learned during your time at Augsburg that you haven't yet?
B
Barbara Sabino Pina 23:31
Barbara Sabino Pina 23:31
I would say probably taking a little bit more care of myself. I think I learned how to do it. But I
think there's just like a journey. It's like a long term thing that you kind of learn on the way. But
I wish there could have been I think there's more now, but at the beginning, I feel like it could
have been helpful to have more mental health type of work in the classroom, more
accommodating, suggestions and modes for all the classrooms, all the classes, um, maybe like
they have like in the chapel, they do sometimes people attend. And they have like a specific
speaker that talks just for those 20 minutes about some type of topic. I wish like in those
chapel hours, they would like talk. I don't know how little mental health sessions or, yeah, I
think probably I could have been more beneficiated by more time to think of myself and be
more reflective than think of like go go go go and do do do do. I eventually learned you know,
but I wish Augsburg has been pushing more through that side of it. Does that make sense?
Katie Clark 24:54
That's so important. Thank you for mentioning that. As far as your career development do you
feel like there's any other opportunities that you wish that Augsburg offered? And there's no no
one's gonna get this is just more me asking you in informal and no one's gonna get get you in
trouble for answering the question. It's just some kind of wondering how do you feel about your
opportunities to be ready for your future career?
B
Barbara Sabino Pina 25:21
I think that I'm not sure it's like I would I credit to Augsburg just because I feel I had to do more
with me, looking for those opportunities, and staff and professors that were willing to, like,
answer those questions for me. So I think I would like to say, like, yes, it was Augsburg and the
people that I met, like, I made those connections with where an expert at what I want to say is
more due to those people like those staff, those great staff members, those great faculty
members, and of course, me going and looking for those people that were able to help me that
they were able to provide me with like opportunities and say, like, they saw my my capabilities,
my skills, and they say, oh, Barbara, I think you should apply for this, or there's this program
going on in the summer, or there is this, I don't know, class in the spring that it's going to help
you with data analysis, right? Simple. I think those kind of like suggestions, and those type, like
people that mentor me, you know, mentor me to go in like this. I know, this is what you want.
And I know this relates to that. So go ahead, do it. I think thanks to them, I feel more more
capable and better prepared for the future, whatever that means.
Katie Clark 26:47
Excellent. Well, is there anything you would like to share with us that I didn't ask?
B
Barbara Sabino Pina 26:52
I would say maybe this is not related specifically to civic engagement or anything. But, I
mentioned a little bit how I'm an immigrant, and I, I was born actually, in Venezuela, I have only
like three and a little bit like three years and a few months in the country. And I know, there's
many other people that are living or had similar circumstances like me. And I think at the
beginning, I had this thought that I was not able to do a lot of things, because of my
documentation, because of just like the situation that I was going through. But if anyone else
out there, it's having the same situation, and they think they can't do it, or that it's just hard, or
that they feel like there's so many doors keep closing in front of them. I would encourage
people to keep trying and just to keep looking for the thing to the right people, like there's
gonna be people are gonna be like, No, you can't do it, or that's too hard, or I don't know
anything about that. But there's gonna be people that are going to tell you, I don't know about
it, but I can try to help you. And there's gonna be people like, Oh, yes, absolutely, we can work
on this. So just keep knocking on those doors. And keep, like, don't feel this courage. Just
because someone say no. I just feel like I want to make sure that people, whoever is listening
to this, or whoever I get to, in contrary to my life, I can make, like, tell them that everything is
possible as long as they're willing to work for it. And as long as they are trying to find what
works for them, because I can give you an advice. But what worked for me doesn't mean
they're going to work for you. So just make sure that you're keep, keep trying ways until you
find the one that works for you. And, yeah, just be yourself. Enjoy the moment. I keep doing the
things I enjoy doing.
Katie Clark 29:00
Thank you. I mean, that's so beautiful. And so moving. And so thank you for that. So that
concludes our formal interview. So I want to thank you for your time
Show less