FG: Hello everyone, my name is Fatima Gele. I'm a student at expert
University. It's April 8, 2021 and I'm here today with Muhammad
Mohammed for the Oral History Project Muslim in Minnesota archive at x
bog University. Could you please introduce yourself starting with your full
name?
MM: Th... Show more
FG: Hello everyone, my name is Fatima Gele. I'm a student at expert
University. It's April 8, 2021 and I'm here today with Muhammad
Mohammed for the Oral History Project Muslim in Minnesota archive at x
bog University. Could you please introduce yourself starting with your full
name?
MM: Thank you, Fatima. My name is Mahmoud Osman Mohammed.
FG: All right. Let's begin by telling us a little bit about yourself?
MM: Well, I am from Somalia, but was born in a line, which is a city in the
UAE. My parents entered the diversity visa lottery program. And luckily, my
mother was randomly selected, which granted her and her immediate
family receive the US Green Card. I am a husband and a father of a
seven-month-old son named Suleyman. I've earned a master's degree in
school counseling from the University of Wisconsin River Falls. I am a new
school counselor at Roosevelt High School, which is a great high school.
And I'm a part-time program director of youth and performance at the
Somali Museum of Minnesota, which is one of the best nonprofit
organizations out there.
FG: Interesting. How's your family life? Is it a big family or a small one? Do
you have any siblings?
MM: Yes, I have a big family. I am one of six. I have two brothers and three
sisters. Additionally, I also have one stepsister and three half brothers. I'm
grateful to still have my mother, my father, my grandmother, and my aunts,
all in my life.
FG: Okay, in terms of your religious upbringing, what was your childhood
like?
MM: I've had a great childhood. Of course, there were ups and downs. But
for the most part, I had a great upbringing. As a child, I was taught to have
a close relationship with Allah. And to know that he will always be there for
me.
FG: Okay, where did you leave and go to school? What was your
experience like as a Muslim student in school?
MM: Good question. I grew up in Houston, Texas, and attended some
Elementary, starting with fourth grade. Then after that was middle school,
and high school, all in Houston, Texas. My schools were located in a
low-income neighborhood, which has its ups and downs. I was one of the
only Muslim students in my elementary and middle school days. In high
school, there were a lot more Muslims, Muslim students, which made it
easier for teachers and school staff to learn about our religion. And let us
stay far away from the school cafeteria when we were fasting.
FG: So now you mentioned that you grew up in Houston, Texas. How long
have you been here in Minnesota?
MM: I've only lived in Minnesota for about seven years. My family and I
moved from Houston, Texas, to Minneapolis, Minnesota simply because of
opportunities. It wasn't easy finding or keeping a job in Houston as a young
Somali man, I mean, Houston. had its other advantages were, you know,
living with affordable. But there was a lack of opportunities for someone like
me. Yeah, and they’re just weren't any opportunities for advancements or
growth. I am not speaking for my Somali peers who still reside in Houston.
But this is based on my experience. There was a well-established, you
know, I always I’d, Minnesota, and I was so drawn to it. Because there was
a well-established Somali community in Minnesota, who successfully
worked their way up and contributed to the success of Minnesota. Um, and
I just, I was just really attracted to that I was drawn to it, and amazed by the
good work of the Somali community in Minnesota. And I wanted to be a
part of that. And I am so glad that my family and I made the move here.
All right. So as a child, what did you want to be when you grew up?
MM: Um, I used to say that I wanted to be a teacher, when I was a child,
shows to always go around the house, telling everyone that I'll be a
teacher. But around the time I was a teenager, I changed my mind and
wanted to be an actor. I was really interested in performing arts I loved
even as a little boy, I would gather my siblings, and have them act out a
scene from a movie. And I've always enjoyed it. And in these plays, that
we've acted out, I've always had scenes where we've even done songs
where we've done some dancing. So as a teenager, I said, You know what,
I want to become a famous actor, just like Denzel Washington Will Smith,
you know, and all the other great actors and somebody moved to
Hollywood. Um, my family, though, didn't really approve of that, and instead
encouraged me to become a pharmacist. They really thought I would be
wasting my time with this whole acting world acting profession, and that I
should get that I should go into the medical field, or, or and especially,
become, specifically become a pharmacist. After taking my pre-pharmacy
courses, which I've spent years doing, I knew this wasn't the career for me.
So I searched and searched and searched for a career that suited my
interest. And after a long search, I decided to become a school counselor.
Now, let me go back, because during my high school days, I really never, I
don't remember sitting down with the counselor. So I've, I've been so
frustrated after high school, I've spent a lot of time, money, and energy. I'm
figuring out what it is that I needed to do. And I am grateful that after
spending so many years searching, that I've actually found that I finally
found what was best for me, the career that suited me, and that was
becoming a school counselor. No, I did not I did not really mind. on what
level of counseling, whether it was elementary, middle school, or high
school, as long as I was making a difference, and being impactful to the
youth, that's all that mattered to me.
Wow.
FG: So how did your life change after you came to Minnesota?
MM: Um, well, I am grateful to now live in Minnesota. I got to take
advantage of all the opportunities that were available for me. I really don't
think that I would have really reached as far as I did. If I was still living in
Houston. I got to work for the Somali Museum, which was founded by my
father. And I got the opportunity to help develop one of the best programs
for the Somali Museum. I have that program is the Somali museum dance
troupe, which is a traditional dance program. So, to tell you a little bit about
the Somali museum dance troupe. It's made up of young men and women
who not only study Somali traditional dancing every Saturday from four to
six but also perform them out for the communities. We've traveled and
performed in so many venues, and so many cities such as Houston, Texas,
San Diego, California, Columbus, Ohio. Grand Forks, North Dakota,
Virginia, we've got to perform in Seattle, and all across Minnesota, from
Wilmer to St. Cloud to Rochester, to Faribault to E men, Qaeda, you name
it, we've performed all across Minnesota. And yeah, I am I'm, I think it's
being a part of the Somali Museum. And having to develop that program
means a lot to me, because we've touched so many people, not just locally,
but around the world. The following museum platform has allowed me to
expand my ability to successfully teach people about the culture, our
culture. And I've also gotten to, we've gotten to me and the dance troupe
and all the other staff members of the museum, we've got an opportunity to
put a smile on the faces of many by entertaining them. And more. I got the
opportunity to become a teacher as well. I taught I've taught at Wellston
international High School, which is a great, great High School. majority of
the students that were enrolled in this high school where students who've
only been in the country for a few years. They had limited knowledge of the
English language, but they were some of the resilient most resilient, and
hardworking students that I've ever worked with. They were juggling their
schoolwork and at the same time, working at night, working long and hard
hours to provide for their families back home. Um, yeah, and they’ve
worked twice as hard as everyone else. And for that, I'm really proud of
them. I was responsible for Welstone international High School, I was
responsible for teaching a college counseling curriculum for high school
juniors and seniors that will support them in applying for best-fit colleges
and universities. In addition to teaching, I work closely with academic
teachers, parents, students, universities, and more to ensure our students
are equipped With the knowledge and tools they need to successfully be
enrolled
and to thrive in a college until they graduate. Um So yeah, I'm, I was very
lucky to work with these students to work with the teachers at Welstone
international high school with the principal with their system principal with
the other mental health professionals, such as the social workers, and
counselors. And I've all have that has been one of my best experiences, I
made sure that students evaluate various post-secondary degrees,
careers, and institutions. And at the end of the year, my goal was that they
each chose the career that was the best I mean, the call the career that
was the best fit for them, the degree that was the best fit for them, and the
institution that was the best for them. I also got them to evaluate what a
good resume is, and a cover letter.
A through A, through a mock interview process. And as a result, 98% of the
students of seniors graduated from high school 94% of them applied to
college before they graduated. And 24% of the seniors were granted a
scholarship. So we've had good results, especially with students who are el
English language learners. Yeah, so, if it wasn't for my move to Minnesota,
I don't think any of this would be possible.
FG: Very good, So, um, what is the most beautiful places you have ever
visited? And what was it like?
MM: You know, I visited a lot of beautiful places. One that I can remember
is visiting California. I have visited many cities in the state of California,
such as Los Angeles, San Diego, and more. And I was just in love with it. I
loved the great variety of food. They had everything they're like you could
find any type of food. And the quality of the food was great. It's a natural
beauty. From the trees to the beach. It was just stunning was beautiful. And
of course, the entertainment. Like I told you earlier, I'm into Performing Arts,
I'm into entertainments and arts. And I think they have I mean, come on,
they have Hollywood. So I've really enjoyed the entertainment scene.
They're
FG: interesting. What person had the most positive influence on your life?
MM: I besides Malcolm X, who I've looked up to my mother, father, and Big
Brother have been the most influential people in my life. My mother always
taught me to give back. forgive others, even if they're wrong, be kind to
people and pray when things aren't going your way or going right. My mom
was a caring person and just an amazing, amazing woman who has
sacrificed a lot for us. My dad taught me about work ethics,
and to be brave in this world. As you can see, there's so much happening
in this world.
And it's very important to be strong and brave. I respect his hard work and
accomplishments and I am lucky to work with him at the Somali Museum of
Minnesota. Last an I was my brother, I respect my brother's positive
attitude. You know, that my, my entire life. My brother has never said
anything else. To me, never a curse word. He's the one person I know that
have never cursed at anyone. What do we just pretty impressed with with
everything that could go on in this world? So yeah, I really respect his
positive attitude. I respect his patience. I respect his loyalty and his
compassion. And I'm really grateful, really, really grateful to have all three
of them in my life.
FG: Okay, what path did religion play in your family?
MM: Actually, it's Islam has taught us there in life, we will be tested. And
then when you are tested, you seek help from God. You seek help from
God through patience and prayer. That teaching has helped us through a
lot in life and made us rely on and love our Creator, Allah. Islam also taught
us to have love and sympathy for all humanity. Which is why we can
coexist. You know, in such a diverse country. We can coexist with anyone
regardless of their background, race, and religion.
FG: So what does being Muslim mean to you? And what are some of the
biggest misconceptions about Muslims?
MM: Well, Islam means peace. It means love, compassion, generosity,
brotherhood, and sisterhood. Do you know? Islam, for us, is a way of life.
And there is there, of course, are lots of misconceptions. One of those
misconceptions is that Islam is not peaceful. It's not a peaceful religion.
And I want to really clarify this because I've, I was raised as a Muslim man.
So I've lived all my life as a Muslim. And I can assure you that the Islamic
religion his Islam is peaceful, it's peaceful. In the Islamic religion, it is
absolutely forbidden to discriminate against others based on their class,
ethnicity, religion, and also their gender. That is exactly what most Somali
people practice. The actions and beliefs of violent groups
do not represent a religious religion, that that we practice. So, and it doesn't
help, you know, it doesn't help when you have,
especially in the past, lots of movies that portrayed us as terrorists, villains,
and they just brutal people. Some of those films I'm talking about are
Captain Phillips, and Black Hawk Down, and a few others. And it really
didn't help. And that didn't sit too well with me. That when people formed,
formed an idea of what Islam was like. When they really didn't know how
peaceful it was, so yeah, this is what being a Muslim meant to me and I'll
go ahead and repeat that. Islam is peace. It's love. It's generosity, it's
compassion. It's all about brotherhood and sisterhood. And yeah, and I'm
and I love being a Muslim man. Yeah.
FG: Is there anything else you would like to say?
MM: Well, we live in such a wonderful country, a country that allows
freedom, a country that is well established. And that gives us access to
health and education and so many other great things. But the United States
is becoming more right racially and ethnically diverse. So it is likely that
you'll be working with or be classmates with or be neighbors, with people
from different cultures. So it's important to have some perspective and
understanding of their cultures. Whether it intertwines with the religion or
not doing that having some perspective and understanding of their culture,
and about them will make not only this country but the world a better place.
All right. Thank you very much for being here with me.
Thank you, Fatima, for having me.
FG: Today is Thursday, April 15, 2021. My name is Fatima Gele. And I'm
here with Mohammed Mohammed for the oral history project in Minnesota
archives at expert. University. So Ramadan Mubarak! how's your day
today?
Ramadan. Mubarak, my day is going well. Thank you for asking.
FG: Great. So just going back a little bit about what you said earlier in the
last recording. You mentioned that you moved to Minnesota because there
were so many opportunities available. So tell me more about this?
MM: Well, what I meant is well, the more of us here, the better the
opportunity. So I'll repeat that again. So the more of us here, the better the
opportunity. Somali people in this state are united. They're strong and
hard-working immigrants or citizens who operate many businesses, and will
most of the time offer employment opportunities to their own. Somalis
played a huge role in the Minnesota capital recovery and the local real
estate market. I've also noticed that many non-Somalis will hire Somalis for
the benefit of serving their soul Molly clients, patients, or students since
there are misunderstandings and miscommunications between them due to
language barriers and cultural differences. For example, let's just say
there's a school of 1000 students and half of them are Somali. It's likely that
the principal of that school will hire several Somali staff members to support
Somali students and to help bridge the gap between the Somali students
and non-Somali students and staff at that school. So that's what I meant by
Yeah,
FG: Interesting. I have never been to any other state than Minnesota. So
I'm glad to hear that. Next question, what was your religious life? like
growing up in Houston, Texas? What congregation? If any, did you attend
each celebration? The way Muslims organized to come together during eat
prayer? How is that different from Minnesota?
MM: Yeah, that's a great question. Fatima. So, in Houston, Texas. Houston
has a large Muslim population. The biggest gathering, I remember are the
times we attended, eat prayers at the convention center. Events. Were
organized by all Muslims, and events are all-inclusive. The only difference
in Minnesota is that the majority of the Muslims in this state come from one
nation, which is Somalia. We have a large established Somali community in
Minnesota.
Great. So with this, did your family have any special traditions such as
things that they did on holidays? Or birthdays?
Yes, my family and I just like almost lumps, celebrate eat and run mother.
Also for Molly's love going to cultural events that include entertainment. So
I organized one of the biggest events of the year, which is kind of a
corporate entertainment event where we showcase Somali culture whether
it's dancing, poetry, theatre play, a kids fashion show, you name it. You we
showcase your all and we've had sold-out venues for the past seven years,
almost every year for the past seven years. So that shows you how much
Somalis love their culture. Besides each celebration events and cultural
event that the Somali museum showcased here in Minnesota, the Somali
independence day festival is a very popular celebration.
FG: That's good. The next question I will have is with student involvement,
as you talked about working as a college and careers teacher and then
becoming a high school counselor. What was your experience like
transitioning from teacher to counselor?
MM: Yeah, good question. So, when I was a high school teacher, I used to
teach certain subjects to my students inside of a classroom. As the
counselor, I deliver counseling services to students, and work with them,
one on one, one on one, or in a small group. So I'm a licensed school
counselor, who qualifies to address the academic career, and
social-emotional development needs of all my students, regardless of their
race, religion, and ethnic background. I believe that I do a lot more work as
a school counselor. Then I did as a teacher. And with and by the way, both
professions. The goal for both professions is to help your students succeed
in school and outside of school. So counselors and teachers have the
same goal. We will Want to see our students be successful? And there's
nothing more that I would love than to work with students and see them
achieve their goals. I am glad I was a teacher before becoming a school
counselor. Because I learned so much about classroom management
strategies, such as setting clear rules and boundaries. Also, I can
empathize with how teachers feel when they are faced with challenging
times, such as grading, lesson planning, teacher-parent conferences, and
so much more.Okay. How will people describe you?
Well, I think that people would describe me as an optimistic person,
someone who is creative, someone who's imaginative, and an ambition
person. Additionally, they would probably say that I'm dynamic and full of
energy when leading people, especially the youth. Yeah, they they would, I
think they would describe me as all that I've just mentioned. And also, I just
have this cultural. What do you call it? Well, I do have that cultural
competence, where I have a gift in seeing the potential in people and
naturally have that ability to connect with them. Regardless of who they
are, or what their cultural or ethnic background is, I just have that gift. And
that just natural ability to connect with anyone, especially the youth.
FG: That's good. What is your goal in the future?
MM: In the future, I aspire to someday work as a school counsellor on an
international capacity. Why? Because I believe that many children all over
the world lack the proper emotional and psychological and social support
that affects their development. So I aspire to spread my knowledge and
expertise to other counsellors or teachers worldwide, to help them shape
the positive emotional and psychological development of the children that
are around the I think we are so grateful that school counsellors are well
respected in the United States. We play a crucial role in a student's
development in all levels, whether it's an elementary, middle school, or high
school, even in college, so I really want to push other counsellors and other
teachers out there, or educators to help students and support them
emotionally and socially and emotionally. And hopefully, I will play a huge
role in doing that. Well,
FG:thank you so much for being here today.
Oh, you're so very welcome, Fatima. I really thank you for for interview for
choosing me and and for interviewing me.
Show less
Ruhel Islam Muslims in Minnesota Interview
Fri, 4/1 7:53PM • 1:31:22
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, food, community, growing, called, america, sylhet, pandemic, restaurant, bangla, area,
bangladesh, minnesota, problem, turmeric, muslim, fish, bangladeshi, culture, burned
SPEAKERS
Ruhel Islam, Mah... Show more
Ruhel Islam Muslims in Minnesota Interview
Fri, 4/1 7:53PM • 1:31:22
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, food, community, growing, called, america, sylhet, pandemic, restaurant, bangla, area,
bangladesh, minnesota, problem, turmeric, muslim, fish, bangladeshi, culture, burned
SPEAKERS
Ruhel Islam, Maheen Zaman, Emily
Emily 00:00
All right. Today is Friday, April 1 2022. I'm Emily from Augsburg University in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
I'm here with Professor Maheen Zaman of the history department doing an oral history interview on
Ruhel Islam on Zoom. This interview is for the Muslims in Minnesota project. So my first question for
you Ruhel, is where and in which year you were born and can you tell us a little bit about what it was
like growing up in Bangladesh?
Ruhel Islam 00:34
Yes, I was born in a village called Bahar Mardan in Bangladesh. Which is the called Sylhet previously
Assam were part of the you know Assam. Assam is very famous for tea garden and its a lot of tea
garden. so from then 1976 October 1. When I was growing up, you know I grew up in a closed-loop
food system which is opposed to some, like a so it's like a joint family; happy everyone celebrating each
other you know my mom use to cook food so all people come eat holiday or I. one of the most
memorable stuff like when I was probably eight years old and Bangladesh was almost under the water
1988 flood and whole town was under the water or our village was there under the water, was hosting a
lot of other people from the town so okay, why? because we had a like a closed loop for system we
grew up we don't depend on transportation for our food so this is what culture I grew up in food is very
food always bring people together anything any celebration about the food even some people die we
celebrate with the food you know like these how food is very important for you know for us whenever
we're growing up it's very important Yeah,
Maheen Zaman 02:17
the same flood our first floor was flooded it did were to take a local little boat to go enough distance the
dendritic Orisha to go to school but yes they still in the water but we didn't have all the food the
catabolic I used to come to us and sell it the first floor because we couldn't go anywhere all the whole
city was underwater Dhaka yet wow how large was your family? And did you move around within Sylhet
or were you always in like our we have the name movie buzzer all the time in New York City a lot of
people from movie buzzer is that close to where you were?
-1-
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Ruhel Islam 02:57
Yeah yeah very close to the town Bahar Mardan is very famous for a lot of other reason already lead by
example for whole district whole Sylhet terms of either leading and the politics leading and you know,
any revolutionary staff in all without someone for village for familiar was no like a part of it. But yes, I
moved in a Sylhet again and I go around you know, I when I will say what is the childhood memories a
lot of memories like a very happy that's brings you he cannot tell story again. And again. It's too much
stuff to say. The Flood was important because when I see people come together, have conversation
and dialogue. And that time 1988, our elder, Hindu, Muslim, all we came together anything we all work
together shoulder to shoulder and they're talking about climate change. Just happened I was scared.
They said I heard this Bangladesh will go under the water you know, these are the story they taught
long time ago. And now you know science telling like a sea sea level rising up, you know, but this is
what people know long time ago. And that's why you know a lot of people out of country a lot of people
is the climate refugees. A lot of people displaced their, from their hometown or under the water they
went to Dhaka. Dhaka like a 16 17 million people. And again, if you think about what is experience I
wake up here in the morning I say thanks to Allah hamdulillah thanks god I'm here because no matter
what you know, we wake up and thinking what we can do make it better for other people you know,
because our action impact other people life. And you should think that way sometime you know, I
always like talk to I'm in the community like a we, when I first came to Minnesota, I came with as
stranger, me and my brother, then we build community, we are no more stranger anymore. So these
are we will come to why? Because what you see around here that's a reflection of my native culture. My
growing up with like a giant family culture I grew up in a community and growing up in a lot of sisters,
we grow a lot of sisters, you know, we are two brothers, and all five sisters and cousins, all this is like a
best thing like a you. There's a we care about each other care about art. And also, you know, whenever
I was little boy my mom is to teach us, like, you know, when we go play outside or maybe hit that tree or
try to make digging for unreason, on the soil, this is a no you have to make sure that treat the way used
to be treated treat your soil right, your plants, right, these are helping, you know, so Islam, when we're
growing up, you know, we didn't learn from the book from our community can come together, any
problem will come together, have conversation and dialogue and solve the problem. And that's the
culture you know, I grew up in I bringing me here. And I'll tell you, when I become a US citizen. During
the oath ceremony, life changing and other stuff, jazz said, We want you to bring your culture don't
forget your culture. That was around 2008. And after that, what do you see here? You know, it's opens
up like I have my license in a telling a Bangla guy gotta bring your culture means good, okay, what is it
my culture, the food culture, I just share with you, and in both this culture, and we build a community for
last 12 years, that in Yes, in this Longfellow area, and from our experience growing up in, in culture, or
under a mother in leadership, so we learn a lot of things and they help us now lead by example, you
know, hear that those those teaching, helping us anyway, go, you know, just bring it be who you are.
And just, you know, and of course, anything you have to have a dream. Everyone wants to come to
America, that was kind of American dream. And I was inspired by so many other stuff. Another thing
like watching the 18, fall guy, the MacGyver X flies, you know, go culprit get caught America, you know,
that was like, oh, man, maybe you get justice. Maybe 100 years later, we get justice in America, that
was we are you know, thinking forward, the oh, we go America freedom, like a freedom of speech, we
don't really get everything. And another thing is the economic reason to one of my main reason to I
decided to come to help my mom, my mom, my mother, salaam, help people, she's very spiritual in the
octave all the time. And I says in how I can, you know, support my mom to people, there's one of the,
-2-
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
you know, difference I see she's to like a, you know, in our, our village, our family, our mother become
finance minister, or grandmother or mother, like all the generation mothers to become a leader or
finance minister of that family, in a decision making them like a real leader is why I remember also, you
know, my mother is to say, you have to educate yourself educated mother can create educated society
educated community that was again to me about that, and they're very spiritual lady, but they also
talking about learn, like acknowledge, like, yes, you have to learn how to deal with the data. So I'm here
you know, I'm bringing those bills and having How are we doing it through with the restaurant I had
before burned down through community work, bring people together doing a lot of unique stuff like idea
is closeable for system is a wonderful thing, you know?
Maheen Zaman 09:39
So related to the restaurant, what was your favorite food growing up in Bangladesh? In the 80s or 90s,
like growing up.
Ruhel Islam 09:50
my favorite food was actually Dal in a dal bhat. Dal is something you know, you come to curry or find
out I go anywhere, I take the dal. And dal every day and I still cry for Dal because sometimes going up
in a big familiy the dal become real soupy watery. You know, I don't like that I like that thick down like
go no dal. And I'm also cooking it here same dal. I go anywhere dal must fight that. Dal and this is what
I learned, you know, can alu bhaaji we have a Mookie something. These are like in our village growing
in our land. Potato Mookie, which is what is Mookie is English like some kind of root?
Maheen Zaman 10:38
Kochu. Kochu Kochu. Let's but they haven't been Asian stores. I just
Ruhel Islam 10:47
Yeah, I just had it today. I went through I said like the stuff we grew up with in Sylhet. And then you
know, on February stuff because sometimes when you feel sick there is a different February's tab
there's to put 512 Different kinds of spinners together. That's called Banerji or Bharata share, like and
cook together with shing match like a fish and good for your health when you don't feel good. So we
learn of medicinal food but also when we inhale it that was become favored. Oh when I get sick to get
this food you know? Because like there are some favorite stuff like this. The flavor inside those are
usually very we don't we can get I try to get those flavors sometime. But you can't get it here.
Maheen Zaman 11:44
The catfish catfish some of them
Ruhel Islam 11:45
catfish a small catfish. This is like a natural ones. So good. So dalysate dal and alu alu bhaaji Albertina
these are these are my favorite stuff and these are for the food security 1988 flood how we. There was
a food shortage. How we handle food shortage that time I see in my uncle my family, Oh everyone
growing potato everyone growing potato excuse me sir by there my son just walking everyone this is
the everyone growing potato and Mookie kochu and stuff I recording for live or just for your
assignments.
-3-
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Maheen Zaman 12:37
This is just for the audio the video or
Ruhel Islam 12:39
the audio okay again yeah you know like kochu that that like a very popular stuff then you go catch fish
from your, we had a pond in the front and pond in the back. So we go catch fish when you're hungry go
catch a fish. and it 2012 by two, University of Minnesota student group over there on sustainability
hosted Oh 22 students from here every year I take some delegation last couple of years because of
Coronavirus and other problem you know in a table so they always go long okay leaving the
sustainability there. So these are these value I want to do eat here and it is why we started you know
when it comes back? Yeah, we did. Gandhi garden and other stuff.
Emily 13:27
Yeah. So going off of you said that you tried to get some ingredients for some of the food. Um, I kind of
want to hear about how the transition was coming to America because I know we don't have like the
same ingredients. The culture is slightly different. So I'd like to hear how like you said the flood kind of
motivated you to come here. I just like to hear about your coming to America story.
Ruhel Islam 13:53
Again, okay. Thank you for putting me in that track. These are Bangla people will start talking you
know, we go from one site to another site so one of the of course, you know, there is a political reason
you know economic reason. There was a political problem. When you were growing up in a watching
people striking actually political problem was enough for our country. The big problem - excuse me one
second, I'm just gonna see if I can get a kid back to your mom. Continue those story from that hacker?
Maheen Zaman 14:40
So how did you come to America? For me it was my father was in Saudi Arabia gulf war happens you
will for George Islam, it didn't work. My mother played Obi Wan and we got the visa and that's how we
came to New York. So I have this story. So we would like to know what your journey and the stories
were. The context that motivated you. Who was here to receive you? Why Minnesota because it's it is
either London or New York and I've never heard of Minnesota
Ruhel Islam 15:05
Yeah. So when I say like in my mother you know she like to apply one I want to see like, oh she have to
comply we know other people to help this to that devices you don't why should you have to ask how
go? This I tried to become self sufficient very early age. But 1996 I came to America actually right after
the political change happened, you know, and we have a too much stuff going on over there. So, I
came as a like, I got my visa, my sister got married to American businessman, you know, my brother in
law, then I got visit visa, I came, then I take this out, you know, my opportunity came, I came to New
York, New York. Then, my father said, don't come back, you know. Good you're going there because a
problem is getting worse and worse political problem. So, that time was. I decided to stay back because
of the political reason, there was no I was involved with politics. Because when I was in high school, I
participated in Lautoka government like a movement as you know, brother Mines iman knows probably
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88 A shot autocratic government and one of our student leaders got killed then you all walk out I
remember from the school and then we you know, defeated the autocratic government and then
categoric government came, but we are not freedom yet. When the country from you know, I came here
another reason to make a difference from here speak out and tell people you know, this is why we are
doing this why I'm involved in US politics to make it better in the world. We as immigrant we understand
the problems you know, any problem because one of the problem we are facing here in America, we
are survivor of those problems. Having a recent problem was Coronavirus problem we survived Dingo
fever, barely survived malaria, cholera, typhoid, chicken pox, everything you know. Then that
experience also we have watching you know how to survive from this thing then you know in then we
have it like it I'm gonna move forward to American life right now right? I mean, I'm in American life now.
Okay,
Maheen Zaman 17:44
so 1996 you're in New York, New York ok did you come here with like to be to study a lot of people
come to study
Ruhel Islam 17:52
in New York then I took right after my college actually I went to a first college and I was up my auntie
wanted me to go in the army. When I wanted to be involved in the
Maheen Zaman 18:04
Bangladeshi cadet school, Josiah shine
Ruhel Islam 18:07
Yeah Bangladeshi our first cause in Bangladesh. Yeah, then I came then I decided to stay back I
stayed back 2000. You know, till I got married I found my wife. They arranged so I got married. Then I
was not happy in New York because it's a cultural shock and first thing is first thing I feel I came in
heaven because when when I was lending every line last day of snowing happening or coming down
coming out from a track I feel like they say Heaven or something like is so good feeling. I didn't know
this I get another shock. Wow first time live snow
Emily 18:55
and then you come to Minnesota where we have more snow? Yeah,
Ruhel Islam 18:58
that I cold you know cold is actually Minnesota. I found Minnesota because I was saying like when I
came to America, I giving an apartment in Manhattan. Looks like I'm living in a jail. We call packing
buckshot. mojego like our our chicken house were bigger than their apartment. You know
Maheen Zaman 19:22
where this where Manhattan there was a north or south?
Ruhel Islam 19:26
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I live in Greenwich Village area. Downtown and you know they have a nice apartment by Medina
Motion by where they are more 64th Street. Yeah, yeah, the four between second and first avenue
Fourth Street. You know first they came there for Emily's
Maheen Zaman 19:42
reference. Remember we learned about in the 20s and 30s. A lot of people from Bengal jumped ship
and they create a Bengali Muslim community in Lower East Side and some of them assimilated into
black and Puerto Rican community. But there's a mosque there. My father took me there. His first bond
the masjid and it was there NYU. Now that area is like you know, all gentrified and rich people and
people How did this mosque come about? Because well it used to be a community here. People come
in and merchant marines and ships in the 50s 60s and they live there
Ruhel Islam 20:15
yeah so you're right you know that area my grandfather in law which is first came ship from Sylhet and
he participate in the World War II, he was one of the first Bangladeshi world war two veteran, you know,
few of them came in they never got back they died here and never go back. But they were like a
generation came that brought all their my wife said people slowly slowly was able to give people bliss. I
don't know that time that something is if it's a process that time come in the border ship, okay, get a
certificate something, then is to people who say give them like a house, or I have a apartment give
anyone the $200 apartment rent, you know, $300 and a lot of people still pay the $500 rent because of
the kind of help put him in all those kind of rent control whatever it is, they still have people where is
$1,000 apartment, but they're still using like a during the war, World War, you know, lease with some
policy in New York. And then I came to Minnesota, my brother came first. I'm coming to Minnesota,
then I start. I said 10,000 city of lakes and rivers 10,000. The country I'm coming from this also country
of lake and river, the Sylhet that village of the Sylhet I mean, or high lower area, you know, so I feel like
I found my home. And South Minneapolis, people are, you know, welcoming, very welcoming, I try to
see some people you know, I do a lot, a lot of fun stuff, but I always take everything is a positive. So I
don't suffer, you know, like, there is a different kind of problem happening around the area. But I just
take it very, I'm very positive. I say no, I don't really pay attention just going to be move forward I know
what my, you know, dream is and stuff. But I remember. So, when first I opened the restaurant in 2000
and. We started 2005 actually at that small dinky dome area food court area by the University of
Minnesota, called the Tasman covenant, very insight. Then we suffer I don't wanna say suffer but there
was some news that came in that building you know those things, but they took advantage as an
immigrant that and I was new, then 2008 when I came to Longfellow area I found this place and you
know, that time was very important for me to what I'm seeing what I'm facing like a people don't trust
each other Middle East are people you know, like a Muslim or not trusted like it, people are fitting better
each other then I get time I found like, that area Longfellow area, all the peace sign everywhere. Peace
sign peace, I know why against why then I say Oh, this is how we have to bring people together. And
as I found the home and lake, river, everything, all positive stuff. Then we started restaurant fine dining
in 2008. And you know, one of the main thing to unite people and rename after Gandhiji because
Gandhiji is a leader for our you know, like in India everywhere during that time. And my grandfather,
during the Assam time, Assam fighters Buddhist time, my grandfather, you know, when Gandhi came to
our district, he was in this meeting with him. There was a inspiration. I ran about from my uncle book
when he wrote, so those are the inspiration I said, How can we this is the time How can you bring
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people together? You know, and maybe use Gandhi's name and being a, you know, like a diverse
group of people together. That time was a good idea to do this to get people together. Because
sometime you know, my name like my last name is Islam. And that time I put my PR says put Ruhelji,
you know, really Gandhiji really, that try to make the case to the community that I was stranger. That
people slowly know about my culture Oh is a Muslim guy Islamic culture was very welcoming. Then I
slowly and I share all the culture, studying, doing like a halal meat, season with kosher salt, vegetarian,
non vegetarian and vegan. I invited people when I say Everyone is welcome. It's my Imam. It's my
belief that I have to make sure that everyone is welcome. So we started inviting in a diet, come on the
same table, and have conversation and dialogue and talk about everything, you know, what do you
face. And slowly that's this is what through this restaurant to this community building thing. You know,
we build a whole community I am no more stranger.
Maheen Zaman 25:29
Did you move before or after 9-11 to Minnesota from New York?
Ruhel Islam 25:34
I moved, actually after 9-11 after 9-11.
Maheen Zaman 25:38
So you were in New York City?
Ruhel Islam 25:39
I was in I mean, I was coming back and forth from 2000 to 2005. I did not like a back and forth, I just my
brother here, I get married, I'm going to Bangladesh, my father died. My mother long sick. So when my
father says, you know, when I come, don't come back, I never got to see him again. Because he died in
Cambodia, you know, so I never able to go back I was in, I don't have a visa to go back that time
because I was in a process, you know, visa. So this is like a set barrier to sacrifice on a small team, to
water water to come here. You know, make your life be somebody and you know, not only your own
life, make the world a better place. And I found working through this restaurant, you know, was I was it
almost like a 12 years of building community to this restaurant and coming to work. And bringing culture
no more stranger. People don't afraid of me. They're not afraid of my beard anymore. They know, our
culture is wonderful. Maybe we look different, maybe, you know, we do things differently. Maybe we
pray five times. But these are not a bad thing. So I was able to make the case and people are very
welcoming about it, they will start participating. So that's why we did that. Our demo and them and I,
they collaborate them to interfaith dinner. If they're blocked by invite everyone tell everyone like a what
is iftar. Educate everyone and one thing I did first time I went to jump into that room. And I did call for
prayer Adhan. Today adhan is official in No, they're doing it. We started from there out is no did it and
everyone came pay attention sometime. Here people pay very good attention. Look at your respect.
You know, this is what I really like about even now our culture if we go after our Bangladesh in our
when we talk to people for interfaith people, they were very silently listening. They're listening like a
with respect everything this is a very wonderful thing. And there's nothing new to ask you to me
because we grew up in this kind of culture you know, Hindu Muslim, I buy extra paper go to the chai
accettare patch Salah Jai you know we do all this work together any problem we work together and this
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is what I was able to teach our share with our community here in Minneapolis I believe communities
with any sort of, you know, yeah,
Emily 28:21
um, I noticed that you're you said like you built this community and you're really involved in like
educating people. And I also noticed that you said like, your mother taught you how to like respect the
soil and nature. I'm just wondering how that journey started towards sustainability and encouraging
sustainability and how that's integrated into your restaurant as well.
Ruhel Islam 28:45
Yes, when I started a restaurant I see like a lot of ingredients shortage I see food shortage happening
because you know, food something if you deal with even know every day you can tell what's going on.
This is a first year of then what I started doing in the area gorilla gardening. I found sport drugs it's it's in
the city come sometime you know the squash vine they cut it out and then some neighbors see they
then some neighbors so then we had somebody I start conversation and dialogue about growing food,
you know, urban farming, yes, slowly started there. The first person I know then gave me a plot in the
community garden. This my first plot nearby community garden and I started growing food but for one
of the important thing I grow which is Bangla squash, so Bangla for the Bangla squash, they found
home in Minneapolis they cared now not only our big a lot of other big kid, they're growing squash. And
then we started this and also this this is like a first year garden then all our people like some another
anchors to work in so heavy they growing food so excited about you know so we learn like elder three
and intergenerational conversation intergenerational dialogue intergenerational working together
because we working with other people we learn to listen to them with a good listener something as a
young people's to move forward to make the change and but this kind of thing through gardening you
know that green hold community with a word Gandhi Mahal gardening like a strength to surprise and I
start growing cilantro and start growing green khichuri green tea then Bangla beans they never seen
those kinds of things woody you know the shaag laal Bangla beans the babies those kinds of things
then the loud shock slowly people everyone coming gathering what's going on here then I start having
when winter comes very sad because I to wrap up a routine so hard in a farmer like he continuously
you have to find ways to in back home go all around then close everything your garden Oh Michael is a
closing party again. So like every three months opening closing you know like it's that's why a lot of in
America in Minnesota a lot of people are discouraged to grow food because it's not easy. It's a sort of
labor of love and it's a lot of work but what I did the way we started like I teamwork collaborating with
different organization bring people together, it's not me and I started a important program called Food
barter economy like a casual we have a cat dog food barter economy, which is partnering with
University of Minnesota Aqua in class and other local schools good call Yeah. All local schools have
they participate in this process and we encourage them. So, I feel because in I remember in 2012 when
I was lucky enough to host a 19-23 people from Minnesota all around America from you know
sustainability class Person village in Bangladesh in my village, in our closed food system. So I said you
know, I want to do this program back here to table initiative and grow food security and up you know, I
want to create a local food reserve bank. So, I share why I told them example, this this the the way, this
student came together 2012 In June, we started and harvested 1800 pounds of vegetable from this
garden. So which this is this is now called Gandhi Mahal interfaith garden. But we went to this that 60
by 20 You know, it's big for the city but not too big for us, we grew up in the village you know, that good
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enough then soil was a bad soil, not a good soil, like it has a lot of arsenic. So we doing we take all the
soil out bring all the soil in, you know freshly then, which is weird to practice like a regenerative
agriculture. You know, back home when you grow food. I saw in our farmer and you know, our family
from then they leave some food for the soil, you know, then turned around.
Maheen Zaman 33:47
This is in Longfellow composting, the 60 by 20 plot? This is in Longfellow neighborhood?
Ruhel Islam 33:52
in Longfellow neighbor, Longfellow neighborhood in Minneapolis, South Minneapolis still had that it's
gotten to a one to twenty secondary south that south Minneapolis and it was not too far from that
restaurant, Gandhi Mahal, and I say to my wife, that was Gandhi Mahal, and garden was this site.
Maheen Zaman 34:09
And this is before the aquaponic farming the you?
Ruhel Islam 34:11
before that before the aquaponic then 2012 to 2014. In these two years, I grow food. And every year I
begin to wrap up with the bolenta when I say food barter economy, you know, I'll finish up the garden
story that 2013 We did 10 different gardens in the community we call it Bijar like a big care just
gardening for urban agriculture by Justice and anyone they care to table initiative. So that's a closed
food system so we work together with a lot of our volunteers, a lot of volunteers. it's not me. We are
leading by example with when everyone support you. When everyone gives make their hands dirty in a
big part of it. it can happen labor of love we cannot, that time is best if I had to pay 100 volunter I cannot
do any further I'll be broke. But what did what I did, I also did a food barter economy so Tim garden,
Jenny, individual farm manager from different school students, and I say wherever you grow keep the
record. Our thing is like a micro finance style we invested money in the different 10 different plots,
seedlings startup everything. Then say we had 10,000 pounds a vegetable we stockpile for our food
reserve bank for security and average every student if I spent $200 For per plot the example I'm giving
whatever money left after their food barter economy, I was giving them a check to because we are so
happy end of the holiday they get a small check. These are you You make I don't only I mean not only
volunteer because our young generation you have to encourage them in a different way. This is what
you know I learned we bring up oh find funny grow then there's a celebration. So we did this and
everyone's happy. So we've been growing local food 10,000 yearly local food in our community for our
customer. And now during the pandemic time what's really we all experience which is sense a sense of
belonging because food not coming in shortage and from my experience I changed my business model
right away which is curry in a hurry right now but I started during the pandemic time because restaurant
I said we know how to handle any pandemic because we grew up with a river of those as I mentioned
before, so why did exactly Bangla belay style spiritual sanitation which is you know, in back home in the
village I saw people get sick they quarantined people on the corner one room they put some kind of
pitball fire pit or something so anyone go in and out make sure that go over the fire so any bacteria
virus things they die you know you probably don't say Brother Javan barium Cinco village you know
they did give a children newborn baby you cannot go without those things so I remember those thing I
bought this cart they say I don't know people are taking hand sanitizer shortage this shortage that
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shortage I says no worries so I created those and ramaden the process 1-2-3 process okay, I was
ready to start community again even the dining. I closed actually we closed restaurant before governor
close because I thought this is the time let's enjoy it. I don't want any dine into coming in I raised so
before they started shutdown officially I shut down for our area and I lead by example for community
how to deal with it so we started 1-2-3 process you know 1-2-3 persons like at one place in order
online. There's a lot of we had to struggle a lot but we survived. We did it and was doing really good.
Then this George Floyd was murdered by the police and rescue we're gonna
Maheen Zaman 38:26
ask the question later but can you go back to how the aquaponic farm started because I went down
2015 spring like are did gone 2014 rebuilding at the time I remember
Ruhel Islam 38:41
2000 So that while I was sitting I said Well think about that. I I said like I started then wrapping up every
year then I said how can we do? I started meeting with the people how can we do a closed food system
I have a abundant basement, under the restaurant. I want to do indoor garden. Then you know
gardening then also in when I says back home we have upon our pond is aquaponic system. But
America we call it a aquaponic because I saw pond then we grow food by the pond. Beans squash
everything, but we don't have to never give watering then I realize this is a whole nice system here
indoor but we have a back home in our outdoor. So I showed this to the kids and we commissioned
some local youth organization commissioned to do a feasibility study for us. We hired them. We spend
a lot of money for this because sometimes it's good investment because this will become a very one of
the first in closed food looped system in the entire country according to you know some newspaper a
Star Tribune, like a aquaponic in the closed off food system and it's like a 200 step away from the
kitchen. You know, where we're growing highest ingredients like cilantro sometime in the winter is what
I was having cilantro all around Harry Potter so yeah the first time made in Minnesota Harry Potter.
Then I started growing spinach. Spinach which is longevity spinach, spinach so good for your health
and diabetics and sugar and other stuff. Then main thing is fish tilapia so here fish you know. Then I
grew up with that fish gotta like you're hungry go with the boy row go catch a fish and bring it to your
mom fresh right away there's like a best thing you can experience. And I I brought this experience to let
our customer our friends and family to the basement. Sunday I said okay, I'm gonna go catch it Bangla
style and whole process we did a few of them to educate people how to you know cook fish kick it fish
the way then you know like a healthy fish it's where some of the stuff we educate about the turmeric I
start growing turmeric in the basement didn't, it's a lot of work but I tried it's possible. But I could not
continue because it's not enough. You need a lot of space. You say 2, 3, 4 show up, even I try to grow
saffron. Saffron was popping up but never you know I never ever be able to harvest but they died
before they flower. I tried that I told student don't worry. If you don't fail you're not going to learn. Failing
is a good thing. You know, you failed and you know next time you can you can keep some directors
educational, everything in education. Then 2014 finally commissioned people 15 project was done we
did a huge thing celebration about that. And after that every year until our building burned down is to
throw our 1000 store to the basement small spill excuse me we open up for young generation to all kind
of school Primary School I mean kindergarten to college everyone's to come study on so we have a
University of St Thomas A their social entrepreneurship class they are one of the syllabus from our
about our project we did so we work with them and then they're they helped me figure out what actually
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what I'm doing what should I call it they says after study professor to Professor put together they said
this is called fully fed community which was which is you're doing it here so it was a wonderful working
together I didn't know what is that call so I learned by working with the students and Professor every
day you learn something. Then prolific committee this is what we are doing you know COVID
Community. Everyone that means you care about soil, environment, fish, yard, chicken, goat. All part of
the aurora environment and then you know after that a lot of we have a all progressive city, all
congressmen, Democrats, everyone getting interest, also everyone coming to visit my basement. Al
Franken Tina asked me you know and they came this also help like it. Tina ask me visited when I was
building building over there to her right after our visit I got my license quick, you know, next day they
came okay. So that because there was a no code in the city about restaurant basement aquaponics. So
I just got license from you know, these are new, we are part of the new chain Okay, so I get a pay a lot
then I get only that license from DNR. DNR officer and then next project now whole city has this paper
on it the writing the letter we want to work with you to part of this process are to do so other people can
to and I say I don't want too much more crazy on this just keep it say this way we're able to do it quick
to go through your process too much. But we know how to grow fish and basement environment.
Sudden cold like a food core you harvest fish put it under the eyes go down to 40 degree under 40
degree temperature then you feel a you know this person we know this is nothing new. And especially
then I we made it Turmeric. Turmeric easy, some kind of antibacterial, antiviral it's an aromatic you
know, whatever I wanted, they call very beneficial to medicina they helps preserve and prevent that
made before in back home. There was a no trees and cooler and nothing. So how they should preserve
food with the turmeric. When it turmeric dry them remember those things? My grandma my grandma
used to?
Maheen Zaman 45:11
Yeah. And now they put the turmeric, hipsters on Instagrams on everything from ice creams to milk and
turmeric, Chai and all this right shot
Ruhel Islam 45:22
on my tablet. I can't believe like someone called me enough, my friend. Oh, can you bring it on my table
for America when you come on? Seriously? Hydroponic story. Oh
Emily 45:42
all right. Thanks so much for that. Um, have you ever worked with Minneapolis Community College on
any of the hydroponics or the three legged frog? Have you heard of those clubs? The Minneapolis
Community and Technical College they have a three legged frog sustainability club and an urban
farming club. I'm wondering if you ever got to work with them at all? MCTC? Yeah. MCTC.
Ruhel Islam 46:09
Yeah, I think I think I gave probably sounds a lot of I don't remember. Because I used to have every
intern from different college in order to help me to put all that in. There's a lot of science behind it. No.
Yeah, our experiences sometime. I mean, it's become scientific later in home, but it was hoping to
figure out those things. I think I think I did probably, right. I don't remember. But a lot of my team
member was sometimes to go to MCTC college, or some of the volunteer also. I'm sure. All right.
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Emily 46:48
I was just curious. Um, alright, the next question I have for you, I know you went over a little bit of it.
Before the hydroponic story, the change from pre pandemic versus post pandemic, if you could just go
over how that change started when the virus was coming out and then like when it finally hit here, and
then like what things you had to change for your restaurant? And then obviously, you know, your
Gandhi Mahal restaurant got burned down and how that affected you? That's kind of story.
Ruhel Islam 47:26
Yeah, I think the pandemic time I already probably mentioned some of the stuff like how we handled in
a pandemic time. So this is also I could say like our mother's teaching grandma teaching, you know,
that there was a pandemic time we did this 1-2-3 process. We changed some of our system which is
shut down for dining and only did takeout and delivery.
Maheen Zaman 48:00
so many restaurants shut down in Twin Cities and around the country because they couldn't pay the
rent. Do you rent your space? Or do you own the whole space cuz I remember Ghandi Mahal got two
eating areas and then a hall and I think the Samali school was also your property and so did you buy
land or?
Ruhel Islam 48:19
It was a like a one? Yeah, I wish to should pay rent by the sister organization you know was to own that
thing, but not too much where you're supporting in ourselves. So Gandhi Mahal the first you say the
main dining area then the kebab room. That's the children playroom area where the children and the
start aquaponics there. Next room was a community room was give it back to community to this anyone
is to come and use free of charge. You know the food meeting is always been there next door was a
Somali grocery then returning to annex office like a co working space where his Defense Organization
again 350 big movement, I mean IPL and Sierra Leone foundation spies and few other like Miss Lonnie
and then a few five different people is to use this space all about community. And then the pandemic
time actually we get a lot of support people from our our community people buying I see some people
coming in and they're buying food like three, four times more food. So when I did very good business
there pandemic type from takeout delivery. Everyone coming and buying food not only for themselves,
sometime sets up in a sense of belonging, before delivering food to their friends and relatives inside
and also we partner it there it says anyone in our area should not stay hungry. You don't have money,
no problem. I started doing this way sending food everywhere. But also those people aren't sending
food they also supporting me next time they coming, oh, I'm going to buy this. So the whole what we
generate kind of economy locally, grow food in the backyard that was our our works really helped
during the pandemic for the food shortage even though oil and stuff but you know figure out in their
head like a we are we know planned so our our support was getting from the farmers and backyard
different backyards vegetables and the stockpile in the cooler like 10,000 pounds of vegetables we
headed the stock the time when I had fish in the basement, a fish producing cilantro you know I don't
have to go out shopping in The Cup or anywhere any other place just have you know, cilantro green
chili inside. So we're doing pretty good and also government has a program that turn people pay loans
that also helps small business they help us to helping in boosting is one of the I think good help. Then I
tell other people we should do this way. And you know, again leading by example I said yes I did and
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this way that way. Then pandemic, by the time we are handling pandemic, then murder of George
Floyd you know, created unrest in our area that was it around the corner, my daughter recorded some
when he was arrested in we are very watching Oh thing things are going and it was traumatize that
time. Because then also traumatized in a sense, because we kind of ran away from this problem like it
came here in America from Bangladesh, where we see this familiar with this kind of situation, you know,
America and Bangladesh different is America still have right to go out protest. You know, no matter
what you can protect your right to protect. In Bangladesh, we don't have those rights to third world
country, you know, they say your life will be endangered. So that was my you know, I say that to
participate in and then I see this injustice happening for all I slowly changing like I never seen even you
know, in back home, we slaughter cow and stuff, you know, we never feel like very the way they treated
put it under that, you know, I in the TV, everyone watching very traumatizing I wouldn't want it normal,
any human to enlive this way. But obviously, you know, we things happening in our area and I started I
think the first day or second day. Second day, probably so bright everywhere, you know, and the PR
guess people start shooting that and I was just traumatized for this beginning was very fun, like
everyone coming you know, participating first day, cool. Second day, I see traumatized because of
police action, you know, police start shooting. And what? and we are you know, we're lucky. And also
nobody's protecting us. You know, we came for our here in America for justice. We came for our
freedom of speech, freedom of you know, like ever everything, especially for security. And I start feeling
like very unsecure because nobody is there protecting us. And and I learn about like a injustice
happening with our native sisters and brothers, our black sisters and brothers. It's been beginning of
the history of America. You know, we learned a school Columbus discovered America. Then then when
I came to New York, I thought Native American culture in the museum now I'm living within culture. And
I feel like this is my culture. This was so close to our concert celebration. I I'm going to like a nap and
during that time I went to water celebrations and remember you can line three movement participate all
the movement with the food that time and the writer in our own eyes, you know also I see people come
together. I said when he said that belonging our native organization sisters and all that our our you
know American sister they were sisters. They all in front of the restaurant and there was a magazine
that protecting us someone poorly when minority owned business you know in the in the in the life.
They are protecting us there and we open up the door because we continue by the medic team we
opened up our an exhibition committee room put in a bed. We are close by tattooist places those kinds
of very bored right away bring the whole medic team and start treating people with amazed and
becoming a like I opened up.
Maheen Zaman 55:20
the tear gas right? put the milk in the eyes.
Ruhel Islam 55:22
tear gas yes yeah tear gas and stuff and people were crying and I said.
Maheen Zaman 55:26
We saw this in Ishka in Bangladesh we saw this issue with all the missing intaka I see that all the time
from our apartment building the army going around and trucks and shooting and people protesting and
you see that again in America it's very strange
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Ruhel Islam 55:39
really strange it was it was strange to matters but you know we know I'm sure how to that's why I was
hindered okay you know this new treatment some people very bad we send them with their Moulins you
know, a lot of teamwork when I become a doctor first time I feel like when you know taking running
running around and watching other people doing all this our community actually trained us to be deal
with or represent any situation you know in the bedtime comes and you have to represent and lead by
example not react. reaction ruin everything or you have to represent the way so that you know, very
positive way you unite people and move forward and get the things done. And that was I was very lucky
I know that I said no, that's first thing is open up the medic teams. Then what people need hungry food I
made that Khichuri dalin but Khichuri I know this is what we did in our flat time. The Khichuri something
is a Bangla soul foods a grit is like a Bangladeshi grits are to explain whether germa you know
Maheen Zaman 56:46
I make it for my kids all the time. It's it's it's another variety rice and beans but it's lentil mostly dealt with
the red lentil I put Hmong down sometimes and then rice they cook it together with you know cumin,
coriander, ginger garlic paste some you know of course turmeric lots of turmeric and you can put in
anything in it. You can make it soupy you can make it drier right its supporters would you get the
proteins from the dal and you get the starch from the rice and fibers and you have all your you know
wood vegetables in there cook it everything you need.
Ruhel Islam 57:25
if you can give some time kitar cut that's like a wonderful bedtime like outside is a cool people you know
like a little bit of wind coming so I decided to make a dal sometime some evening dal bowtsa meaning
like it this is a major breakdown down but in the kitchen at dal is something and put it in load in the cart,
out cart walking around with feeding everyone wherever you know hungry needy and food and that is
wonderful. And then I see after everyone else who come in supporting me. Okay, you know people try
to contribute you supporting your support. So this really sense of belongings you know, was there then,
of course 29, 28 You know, in the morning, I learned that my restaurant is burned down their line like
across the cloud get burned down then fire across fire, burned by crossfire and not burned by protester
people I know because of you working together is the outside world can we see a lot of kids came from
outside and they are just throwing stone and breaking windows and like if people everyone had a fun
like they are inside the jail for a long time during the Coronavirus and they had opportunity to get out
and stealing looting the liquor and these and that everything everyone is involved but this was not the
protesters. This is like outside people come in parties. We watch them when I try to talk them they
Yeah, you know oh come on. Come on, man. We are. So some people intentionally did this to divert
and we understand the gravity third world country this kind of polling we know. They want to divert.
People ask me question why what do you say? they says, you know, let my building burn just in must
be served. Because, you know, we don't divert your movement different direction that was all planned
in a divert movement? Probably I don't know. But we bill people over property, you know, it's very
important. And when the time calm, which will work together no matter what community you know,
these were really even even you know, I live in the community to visit in the community. Some of my
family Oh, leave come back. Come back over the go over there, I'm not leaving. No. Yeah, you know
how our Bangla Okay, oh, dangerous, dangerous. I'm sending you ticket come back. I said no. Oh no.
And I was embarrassed that time because you know, I so proud of that we because I said Bangladesh
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
is like a ground zero for climate change. And Minnesota Minneapolis is ground zero for movement
protest you know major protests against any you know darkness come anywhere with to stand up for
other people right you know this is what Minnesota about so proudly, then now they say oh, why you
talk our police here police killing people and all this different Bangladesh police is like you did go
personally here present on you know, have a I mean, or anyone, nobody control them. They have their
own control. But as I say you go against opposition party. So don't compare it. They're still protesting
out. Nobody put me in that jail. We still speaking out for justice. This is the real democracy here. You
get it? Oh, this never happened in Bangladesh. Oh, yeah. I mean,
Maheen Zaman 1:00:59
to give Emily a context Bangladesh developed in the early 2000s, the special police force called Rapid
Action Battalion RAP, it was under the theme BNP, but then on the other party is become like a
personal militia, to shut down any opposition. It was initially done because a lot of crime has risen in
Dhaka, and to deal with, you know, drug cartels to other kind of crime. And now they've become, you
know, a way to silence opposition and silence. The opposition party for disclosure for the archive, my
father's family from Bogra. So they have natural, tight or BMPs. I just want to reveal that nobody
accuses me of being on bias, but so a lot of Bangladeshi's were complaining to us to like, Oh, look at
your country is this and this and that is it. That's true. But again, despite all of that, there's still
possibilities to democracy that we don't have anymore in Bangladesh.
Ruhel Islam 1:01:56
Yeah, that's why I say like, I wake up, I'm blessed. I says, you know, Alhamdulillah, like, thanks to God,
you know, here, how can you make another day a better day? And
Maheen Zaman 1:02:06
like you said, it's possible because people like Martin Luther King, Jr, Malcolm X, Native American
community, Latinx community, and you know others who have pushed the country to be better. Yes.
Ruhel Islam 1:02:19
I think that I agree with from the like, you know, everyday learning, like, the civil rights movement
actually give us more right then our black brothers and native brothers, sisters, you know, more
demographic come people, sometimes tedious, like a work, you are a computer engineer or a doctor.
You know, there's a lot of, even though you know, there is a difference here, whereas, when, if anyone,
any black people cross the light or red light, the thing is a gang member or whatever it is, you know,
these are, this is mindset, this problem inside
Maheen Zaman 1:02:54
because model minority people from Asia like us, we're model minority, even though we have had wars
and crimes and violence, as much as any part of the world. But racism that's as you know, your model
minority you come here, and you're against black native and Latin X community, and then we will get
the loans the positions, but not the best ones, but but better than others. So this is divide and conquer.
We know this from South Asia, or the British to divide and conquer with the Muslims, Hindus, and how
here some people in power do the same thing. Different ethnic groups. So once it's burnt down, you
hear iit is burnt down and you're famous quote, was all over the news. I went to visit. And I was really
- 15 -
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
sad because the first restaurant I went to eat was Gandhi Mahal. Like, Oh, this is a Bangladeshi
restaurant. And then you see the ground, both the club and all the buildings like just all the way to the
basement. And for me, it also reminded me of the World Trade Centers when it burned down. We built
these things with steel so strong, but then fire is so destructive, right? And you think about Day of
Judgment, like the Quran doesn't want the Ramadan awesome or not the fire, it will burn everything
down. To go with arrogance and hatred. It's like a fire, it will burn everything down. So I saw that
reflecting on that day remembering the the destructiveness of anger, hatred, fire, and also the
punishment that awaits those who don't repent. So, I'm glad to hear like how did you then recover? I
know you started Curry in a Hurry, which is a famous restaurant in New York and in London. We have
the name was also but how did you plan to do it? How did you make that shift?
Ruhel Islam 1:04:38
Yeah, you know that during the pandemic time, you know, again, no, like will ever go through like this.
We are like a, God was preparing us to have Curry in a Hurry over there where they are like, it is all
started for the pandemic, because of pandemic I start Curry in a Hurry idea was Hurry, hurry, can you
come here? Like that whole idea was there pandemic it come, don't stay quick go. Slowly, slowly
cooked. Food quickly sub slowly cooked, quickly served studying the whole idea. That's why people are
coming and going. Same. It's like I said, it's kind of set in their mind. They come nobody, because a
pandemic Come 1, 2, 3 go Curry in a Hurry. That was the whole idea.
Maheen Zaman 1:05:25
Once the kitchen is burnt on, how did you find another kitchen then?
Ruhel Islam 1:05:29
this is a community came together and gave us founders this kitchen actually, this is a wonderful. One
of the brother is from, I think, somewhere in Africa and he's his wife own and his wife. He was like our
chicken tikka masala in our food. And we was looking and they were going to build your home there,
break this place in the corner and turn their own home. Then it says if you rent it, you're gonna hold it
for how many years you need, say four years rent until we will then he says okay, for four years, they
gave it rent to us. A very good price, good deal, you know, and this kitchen actually built by our
community, all all the family come together, clean these and build it for us. And they say, you know, and
I kept carrying her, you know, it's too much stuff going on and I don't know, you know, sometime, this is
a like a. Sometimes, I feel like in next two, three years, you know, I was we are hoping to put together a
feasibility study that $50 million project. So that's really like a living building first time regenerative living
building in Minneapolis replanning. I don't know how far we can go and collaboration is Pina Walls
theater you know try to collaborate and do it but now looks like no matter how much covered I do you
know investment and return of investment 50 million in I have to work all my life then I'll become
different kinds of slave to the system then resists study like this people saying in government if we need
bond money like our consultants that study the pillar of our study finishes every study saying you have
to the suggestion site to give my right to city give me I should not product realization so I am the only
one was POC on land around this area one of the person now I have to give my land to under nonprofit
you know, what are to structure this project?
Maheen Zaman 1:07:43
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The idea is your land you will own the land.
Ruhel Islam 1:07:46
Yeah, yeah, we will not we started with the renting you know, actually I bought the restaurant $1 $1 $1
Then I turned it to a million dollar restaurant. The $1 I bought I get into the real like this is also I learned
the system if you bring a new like a new restaurant a lot of process from the government licensing stuff
then they'll say why don't you do it we'll do we'll do a little transition here. You pay $1 I paid cash one
dollar and he signed by let's rent from the other tenant then he extend that transfer the reason I had to
buy for $1 That was a good story because $1 is 10 bigger to million dollars or is $1 more is to make
difference in the whole world now we're planning to bring all together but when I did rented you know I
was right away in I thinking about like I'm paying rent every month and all given to someone that can
just gonna start saving money talking to in 2014 Actually, finally, when I did aquaponic because then
got permission the guy to this why this thinking the title and the 10 billion for clothes and then become
owner of the building again they took it when I talked to bank because tenant has arrived and I have
some good you know, I get involved and actually convinced them I called bank owner of the bank not I
don't want to talk to me I want the owner because I learned from my uncle you know, you have to just
got to the top then progress process for you. You can
Maheen Zaman 1:09:36
say for a man. Yeah. To do several money was one of the longest serving finance minister Obama this.
Ruhel Islam 1:09:46
Just yeah, that was my uncle. I know I grew up under his tutelage that's what I understand. He couldn't
hold Bangladeshi bottomless basket. To he make it this an old country enjoying this economy. Make he
called akhira Bangladesh economy he did the way system VAT other stuff countries to run it so nobody
can you know no matter how bad people Coronavirus bothers GDP is high everything doing good
because of the right policy and I see closely you know him he did agriculture way prior to agriculture,
Agriculture Food Security farming fishery, I was part of so many of this wall USA program I seen it then
he also says investing on farmer is never don't say it's a loss. This is a good investment they're
producing food is adding to our food security. So don't think is a lot is adding. So if you invested in
pharma is invested in human food for education program fourscore scholarship program. So I seen
these and some of the things are implementing here actually, this helping me those experience, you
know, entering my gardening and growing food, bring the book together, those experience really helped
me.
Emily 1:11:05
So after all of your experience from 2005, to coming here and seeing them pandemic, do you think the
state in the community is moving in the right direction? Do you think the country's making progress?
How would you say like the community is changing? Is it moving forward? Based on your observations
and experiences?
Ruhel Islam 1:11:27
Yes, you know, I'm every day you know, we learning something new, you know, something's tough, but
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Maheen Zaman 1:11:37
do you feel optimistic? You feel
Ruhel Islam 1:11:39
no mercy yet? Justice? I talk about the justice system, you know, even though we have a freedom of
speech, freedom of right. And but But here, you know, it's not, you have to prove to get justice, you
know, thing. And my experience sometime some people have privilege, they automatic. People assume
like, Oh, these are the good people. Okay, oh, people have no idea. These are the Muslim people, they
treat their human where, you know, people that they marry four times, then people sometimes like a
sound by Judge oh, maybe these that these are the, you know, a little bit of racial justice problem. I
seen every now, before I was so busy, like a building community, I didn't pay attention. I learned like a
positive move forward, move forward, still moving forward, then went on to be paying attention. I see
Oh, my God, what an injustice can happen. Especially, especially, you know, the immigrant community
actually Bangla community, male community, my example. We, I was on a restaurant actually work with
Volunteers of America, which is a halfway house, you know, people go to jail after a certain time for
reentry to the community. So I work with them in the reentry force help people get into the community.
So I face a lot of them. I like a lot of white people will be traumatized. They grew up in bed experiment,
so many I learned, I try to have to help them, give their privacy supervised, and bring them back to the
community. So rather, people get back in their community than normal. They're not people not but
people some time for small thing. This other opposition or person or other party have a lot of proof. Oh,
this is enough. But actually, this was not a real justice. I'm saying I'm trying to say and especially a lot of
immigrant people getting justice by this process, okay, under white people are different culture,
Western culture people is not going to get real justice. Because if even if, like a bit between I'm
supposed to round people, if someone a judge, maybe they have some family problem, like I said
family issues, family issues, then also they work together, right, they began to work issues. So actually,
it is a familiar problem. But they work together in the same place, you know, saying so slowly. You
know, some people will look at Oh, this is in a workplace but some people familiar on people within our
this is this. So those time, people very difficult to understand the justice to people what is really
happening, you know, people don't understand. Maybe we need to like where we are doing a lot of
educational stuff like if that don't you know you do your thing we do our thing fasting we educating
people same way we need to educate our justice system like this country married people of color
immigrants and other people. But originally I did believe like a written by the people to benefit their own
people that was you know when they did all this stuff so that's why I believe systematic change real
change to be happen based on my experience and otherwise if you can be someone very you know
that people all behind you without understanding anything sometimes you don't understand a lot of
things but we call one of the Justice problem is like we pay attention to chili a cow can eat Chili Chili,
can you guess? Why does everyone agree? What is that? Like if
Maheen Zaman 1:16:06
it was gonna be like, if a dog bites you? Do you bite the dog back? Right? Like that's the nature of the
dog you don't behave the same way as them is because it does that too.
Ruhel Islam 1:16:16
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Yeah, one of the one of the Hassan Avi writing writer he wrote this about like his ego, tried to take a
nap, yes, is here and then this guy going after Eagle why people asking him why deny their night, oh,
the eagle took my ear, you know, run run run then later someone says oh, just quite a new sees the the
O is here. But Whole day whole night he ran off there you go because you got so these are the stuff
here going on, you know sometimes. And then also in social media world, good thing and bad thing,
you know, sometimes really good staff can become bad investor become good, they change. I'm like
sometimes nervous about those things. And I'm embarrassed sometimes about what happening here in
America, you know, police to other people, and also also like a I see some kind of anti Muslim policy
some kind of even though we have a more freedom here, you know, what something is there, which is
like it any war going against very example, if you open your eyes, if you say anywhere or going against
a Muslim or Muslim against anything is become a different category, when you know when like suppose
Russia and what is called that? A crane, right? Nobody calling no one terrorist, there are bad people.
When these are like we need to understand speak out about this is very important to for the change our
young generation, how through intergenerational conversation or to learn from our elder, how do you
experience this, then these kids, they can make a difference if you only if you tell have a conversation,
not from the history, history written by the winner, he never get a real history from a book only got
booked can be a real story, you know. But there is a real story is written by because there is a whoever
when they change it back in Bangladesh, everything checking was even though Mawlana bhashani. We
had our very leader who really that their name is disappear. They're familiar is a begging, begging that
a very becoming bigger, and I can only take care of them. But people are calling themselves
something, something something, you know, this thing everywhere.
Maheen Zaman 1:19:04
The contact monitor person he was a Muslim wrestler, but also socialist and advocate of the farmers
and workers both. And he created the the People's Party only. And this didn't win in the 60s. Then he
became you know, it was taken over by somebody else. But and he's from this area of silicon, Assam
and did all this work there to give all the Black Panther Party all the power to all the people. And he
believed in that. And then a family took over that party who then claimed to be the founding father and
all these different things. So that's a contentious thing bothers you politics. But I'm so happy to hear
that, you know, you advocate for sharing storytelling between different generations. And you have
children. Your daughter became famous because she quoted you in the newspaper. And they weren't
abolish, like I've grown up there. You've grown up there but my kids too. They are American Muslim.
Bangladeshi descent how do they identify in you as well as the three identities Bangladeshi, Muslim,
and American, whereas biology means being Muslim, but here they have to separate the two. How do
you see the you know, with American history to Native Americans, but the first Muslims are black
Muslims and slaved Muslims. And then we have other Muslims right and the weekend was immigrants.
How do those identities Connect? Being Muslim being American being moms for you? And for the next
generation like in your children, what do you envision what do you think will happen for your family in
the future in Minnesota? Because we have a huge Muslim community now me coming on to Somali
refugees has changed everything for the city
Ruhel Islam 1:20:44
yes actually Somali refugees contributed to Muslim community in America a lot winning culture make it
very normal in in you know what I'm what I'm working interfaith relations intergenerational relation I'm
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hoping to make change I want to like a see my daughter can tell you know my we are Bangladeshi
origin proudly but how is a home teaching telling participating the stuff I'm doing leading by example for
not only my family a lot of family a lot of community actually in all around the world now in London in I
when I went to London I see New York everywhere and also like when I was growing up one more tear
I also watch our color is a problem we have a racism problem in third world country like Bonacci
colorism programs we have a we had caste system which is you know right after Islam came to
Bangladesh to cover from you know caste system is disappear still poor people maintained within but
there was like a equality to you know this thing with Islamic culture body quality over there and in
America I feel you know a lot of stuff I supposed to be supposed to do as a Muslim and as a rapper
from Orlando my mom and I grew up in the Muslim community in the family I feel everything is here like
America festival the charity is very remote month of Ramadan and they do if you give charity days like
official he actually did some part of the debit vector community and you get benefits and stuff and
charity you're supposed to do a lot as a Muslim anyway go you know this is your this is I feel here a
different angle then I try to tell my kids look we did this but here also officially then somehow they all
equal in like you can call even though before I thought you know 100 years later I will get justice but
justice something you have to advocate for it then you can get just you have to work hard to get just it's
not easy. It cannot take for granted you have to fight for it. immigrant community Bangla community like
a normal our generation we normally have before our elder who came they were not ignoring but they
don't have to be bothered like oh no, forget it. I'm not gonna involve in our generation like me
personally, I get involved with community building community, because our children grow up here they
have to list their country and also they cannot be culturally lost. But to be a good citizen, good human
being. You have to have your roots you have to know where the roots come from. The way we have to
know whether food come from there's a whole society we did it. We have to know root confirm, you
know, any she's become unbusinesslike if you cool I know. Emily, maybe you cook in a few of our spice
something they do too much salt. What will happen? unbalancing if you were too much chili powder, too
much turmeric is healthy, but if you put too much, it's become unbalanced. So what is going on in the
world? Here? We we we advocate without we do as America promote democracy all around the world.
You know, but also i Everyday I try to land what is going on because this is also creating revenue for
America as the America immigrant. When you start dreaming about America to come America, you will
Start paying money, spending money on America the day one, pay a fee for these a day, a lot of stuff
involved. Some people land some people sell their land to come to America. You know, these are
expensive or maybe you cannot afford to do all this thing you know, come to America then I tell my kids
you are because I was born here going to school, all the access, you will complete our country, all the
facility as a you know, like a wonderful retirement benefit with a ba ba This is all part of our culture, our
culture teachers to do this, but this is officially doing it you know, so that's why I feel I found my own
little thing you can do it right. You can practice it. Only if you want, you can use it, how you want to live
your life. And don't forget who you are, we can get there. These were I telling my kids and I can take
them to mostly when I pass the library movement the parents are telling Winona LaDuke in the policy, I
participate all these things because I they said that celebration when they when they do what it called
the poaching wild rice poaching and stuff in our waters our best. The River of our bequest exactly same
then after harvest, they celebrate happy celebration. We have this culture in Bangladesh we season six
season celebration they also celebrate six Season Four Season Arbaaz fall these they're you know
fishing everything we do also fishing celebration they do in celebration, you know, and another
important thing when I connect we are all related we are connected with with food, water, whether she's
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
getting fish, everything, but in Minnesota, you know we have ice fishing the first time when I went to go
ice fishing I was surprised and shocked making the old getting cast a fish and this is like a different
feelings you don't want to use if you're a first time you can have that feeling. And if you're a fish guy
from Minnesota fish guy, you can feel those feelings get very sub surprised because we survived and I
learned about PCs under the water water is you know, I went with a DNR. I really like it. Then when i i
Could I was so lucky I get a big fish right away, you know, look at the tap, tap tap that big northern pike
and I was photoshooting you know, and photoshooting and I'm planning Oh, I'm gonna go I have a
cylinder in the winter in my basement. I have a pitch region in my basement. I have a this pin as I'm
making manos. Then gender officer says no, you have to put it away is a big fish who say no, it's more
than 22 inches so there is a protection for the fish to in America. Security disagree. Oh man, I don't
care. No, no, no, you get fine. So I run and also like you eat fish because fish is available because
they're protecting the fish. This what I'm saying our culture and the Islamic culture the Muslim supposed
to protect the fish, but like the enemy or not eat all of them keep for a generation with chicken or lamb
and everything. So these are the you know, experiences I feel so good about. I'll take all my kids with
me to run fishing for my kids, I'll know now how to cook is a survival thing to learn. And it's a problem
there. Remember, food brings people together you are hungry, you angry, you eat good food.
Everybody medicina food is a medicine they will calm you down then you have a conversation and
dialogue then you can make the world better plays and you can have it can be the change and you can
even make a difference when you were covering so you need to eat good food. If you need to have a
good food you have to know the food come from that means you have to grow your own food
Emily 1:29:31
I think this might be my last question to ask. So if there's one thing you could say to the world what
would it be? Just like a final message
Ruhel Islam 1:29:44
lot of thing coming i don't know i One of the things recently I'm facing like a people a lot of people
become greedy so be fair to each other. I'm trying to say this Be fair that's when they are going to be
get healing. If you're not fair you're going to be get your own feelings. So be fair, you know to each
other right ways to be treated. And I again say like you know, also reminding people that karma you do
bad things come back to you. Even though my business burned down. It's a material victory the brick,
right? We can rebuild again. But also have time, then good. 10 comes. So don't be stressed out about
heartache, try to learn how to move forward and don't move forward and learn from those things and
you know, do it better. last two years. If I just cry cry or my original burn down, no, then I'll be still set.
Next day I woke up by say I'm alive, building gone. But the community we build it is there. And we are
those work those building community now in a sense of belonging is there because of that. So be fair to
each other. I'll say again,
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Show less
Khadra Mohamed 0:01
Hi, today is Wednesday, April 21 2021. My name is Khadra Mohamed. I am a student of
Augsburg University. I'm here to do my project of oral history for Muslims in Minnesota. I'm here
with sister Sharon Tomas el Amin. And I want to thank her for participating my oral histo... Show more
Khadra Mohamed 0:01
Hi, today is Wednesday, April 21 2021. My name is Khadra Mohamed. I am a student of
Augsburg University. I'm here to do my project of oral history for Muslims in Minnesota. I'm here
with sister Sharon Tomas el Amin. And I want to thank her for participating my oral history today,
sister Sharon, welcome. And please introduce yourself.
Sharon Al-Emin 0:33
Thank you. Thank you Sister Khadra. Again, my name is Sharon Al Emin. I am a African
American Muslim woman. I have been here in the Twin Cities area for over 30 years. I am
married with three children that also resides in the Twin Cities area. I don't know how do you
want me to give you a little bit more? Yes. I currently serve as Minneapolis school board director
for our North Side schools here in the Minneapolis area. My full time position, I work for
Hennepin County Sheriff's Department. I work in the finance division, where I do accounts
payable. So that is my full time job. In addition to that, I serve as the mosque food coordinator, I
volunteer my time to help with a lot of the food projects that go on at the masjid. So that's just a
little bit about who I am. What I do, and I'm sure we'll get a little further into detail about who I
am and what I represent.
Khadra Mohamed 1:38
Yes, thank you. So you told me about, you said you have been in the Twin Cities For how long?
Sharon Al-Emin 1:49
It'll be 30 years. It'll be 30 years soon here. So about 30 years. Yes. Yeah. So
Khadra Mohamed 1:54
tell me about where you from where you born, where you've been raised?
Sharon Al-Emin 1:58
Okay. Yep. So Chicago is my hometown, Chicago, Illinois. Born and raised there. My father, my
mother and father both lived there. My father still resides in a home that we were raised in. My
mother passed away from breast cancer when I was 16 years of age. So at a very young age,
she was 43 years old. So just very, very hard time for me as a young mother at that time to be
without my mom. And so I had to grow up very quickly, because I was responsible for another
person that was looking up to me as mom now. So Chicago is my hometown. My family is a
family of seven. I have there's four girls, and there are three boys. Currently, two of my brothers
have passed away, but the five of us are still living. So I come from a pretty large family. I was
raised, and Christian religion. So going to church, you know, celebrating the Easter holidays, or
Christmas holidays was all part of my childhood. When I relocated to Minneapolis area when I
was 19 20 years of age, is when I relocated to the Twin Cities area. My husband and I had met
when he was in Chicago, in the University of Chicago for school, we met there, he kinda, you
know, made the decision to come back home. And I slowly came behind him to the Twin Cities
area. So my husband, as you know, his Imam Makram. At the time when we met, he was not
the Imam he was, you know, a young Muslim man, that was, you know, definitely still practicing
his religion. And we both began to study it together. So at that time, I moved to Minnesota back
in 1990 1990. And I remember 91 was when the terrible snowstorm hit, and I was like, why did I
move to this place, but every week located in 1990, with my now husband, and I began to study
the religion back in 1991, studied it for about two years myself, just again, wanting to make sure
that I understood what Islam it was this you know, something that I could live up to wasn't
something that I could see myself, being proud of me being my life. And so after studying and
seeing the beauty, and the religion of Islam and understanding the role of the woman and
understanding how Islam strengthens us and make us stronger, connects our families and
connects our community. And really, just gives you the opportunity to live the best life that you
can. I took my Shahada in 1992 and I've been Muslim ever since a, again, African American
Muslim woman practicing my religion every single day. Right now we're going through the month
of Ramadan. And I must say that every time I read the Quran, I walk away with something new,
something different, a different understanding, a more heightened understanding of our religion.
And so for me, Islam is my way. I am proud to be a African American Muslim woman here in my
religion able to stand for what I believe.
Khadra Mohamed 5:44
Yes, thank you, Sharon. So you touched about that your mom passed away? When you were 16
years old?
Sharon Al-Emin 5:59
16 years of age? Yes.
Khadra Mohamed 6:00
Um, yeah. And then you had someone who was dependent on you did you had a sinling.
Sharon Al-Emin 6:07
I actually had a I was a teen mom. So I was a teen mom. Yes. So my daughter, my daughter, I
had actually just given birth to my daughter a couple months before she passed away. And so I
was young, you know, I was with a baby and then lost my mom, it was a very, very, very hard
time for me. But fortunately, I had my older sisters, my father, you know, still to this day is still
very present in my life. And I was able to stay grounded. And understand that I had a
responsibility. Now, that was dependent on me. So I had to grow up fast. I always say I had to
mature, I had to accept the responsibility and become a woman very, very, very fast in my life.
So
Khadra Mohamed 6:54
yes, that's, that's very early age to be mom and raise a kid and at the same time lost your,
Unknown Speaker 7:04
your mother,
Khadra Mohamed 7:07
it was not easy. Then you say you had two brothers?
Sharon Al-Emin 7:12
I have, I actually have three brothers. Okay. Two that have passed away, and one that's still
living. So out of the seven, there are five of us that are still living, and I myself and my sister are
the only two that are in Minnesota, all the other still reside in Chicago.
Khadra Mohamed 7:34
Okay, um, tell me about your dad.
Sharon Al-Emin 7:41
My father. He's amazing. He's a, you know, black African American man, who has always been
there for his family. He is currently still living, he will be 84 this year in sha Allah, still able to
pretty much get around himself. My father was he was a truck driver all his life. So again, you
know, came to the era where education was very limited. He had a sixth grade, high school
education. And then, you know, like all the others back in 1938, when he was born, you know,
so, living during living during those times, when it was about survival. It was about surviving for
your family. And they, he knew the importance of education, but surviving was even more more
of a responsibility for him. So providing for his family. So my father is, he's an amazing man who
still today, he still goes to the churches every Sunday to practice his religion. And we still talk
once a week, once a week here. Yes. Great,
Khadra Mohamed 8:53
great. Um, so you've converted to Islam. Can you tell me more about that?
Sharon Al-Emin 9:05
Yes, I took my Shahada, what is known as the declaration when you become a Muslim, you
have to take your Shahada. So you have to stand before and submit, submit to yourself and
take the declaration of owning Islam as your way in submit to not being forced. And doing this
under your own will and under your own accord. I studied Islam for I want to say about two
years before I made the decision, because again, I wanted to understand, I wanted to
understand what it meant to be a Muslim. I wanted to understand the five pillars in Islam. I
wanted to understand the prayer in Islam and what it meant for the woman you know, to wear
the hijab and how she was to carry herself and how she is the nurture of the home All those
things were very critical to me. So I took it upon myself to begin studying the Quran to study,
read lots of different books to study, different Hadees and learn about our Prophet Mohammed
salatu salam in just making sure again, that it was something that I understood that I felt like I
could live up to and be able to answer any questions or answer to my Lord, as to why this is
something that I have chosen to do.
Khadra Mohamed 10:35
Thank you. That's amazing. Yeah, for you to be able to learn, you're the new religion that you
have just converted and be able to answer questions and all that. So I know you've touched
about the role of the woman. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Sharon Al-Emin 11:05
Yeah, and you know, and I say in Islam, but it's really no different in all the religions right? As a
mother, we are the nurturers, right. So we are the mothers, we are the doctors, we are the
teachers we are, you know, we are the ones who try to make sure our home is held in the right
way we are, we are the nurturers. So we are the ones that care for our children we do for our
children were at the schools, were educating our children, we are doing all these things. Islam is
just a reminder of the role that we as women play. And so the beauty to me when it when Islam,
it just shows again how, as a woman, we have our roles, right and I, I say roles in a very lenient
way. Because it doesn't restrict us that we can only do just that. We know that again, being
leaders in our home that we can step out and lead in any way because we have had this
experience and our homes. But it's time again, it just it raises the woman on a highest of levels,
right when we talk about women in Islam, and we read about the different stories from our
Prophet, and we know of the stories when when someone was less came to the Prophet x the
story about who should he go to, when he was dealing with this difficult situation. And the
Prophet directed him to his mother. And he said, then Who, and he said, Your mother, and then
he said, and then who he said, Your mother again, and then your father. And so in just seeing
the emphasis and the weight that we as women carry on us, it gets to be very heavy, and
overwhelming. But Allah does not place anything on us that we cannot bear. And and that's a
reminder for me, as a woman as I try to fulfill my role in my home, as a wife, right? As a sister,
as a friend, as a sister in Islam and trying to do the different things that we do in our massages
in our mosque. Those are all the little reminders that remind me that yes, I am a woman. But at
the same time we have to understand that Allah wouldn't put anything on us greater than we
can bear.
Khadra Mohamed 13:33
Yes, thank you so much for sharing that shirt. Um, I also want to ask you about your education.
And when you were you went to university or school.
Sharon Al-Emin 13:47
Yep. So again, my my education is in Illinois. So I graduated from Chicago Public Schools. I
have attended some community colleges here in the Twin Cities area and actually more online
abroad. So I have two years of business in my associates degree towards that. So again,
business is my strength. But I find so many different areas where my passion drives me
towards. Right and so I have my bachelor's in business.
Khadra Mohamed 14:28
Um, you have you mentioned that you had worked with the sheriff's office. Could you tell us
about that?
Sharon Al-Emin 14:39
I work for the Hennepin County Sheriff's Office. Right here, downtown Minneapolis area. I have
actually been with the Hennepin County Sheriff's Office for six years now. I work in the finance
division. So again, the accounts payable really had on and a lot of the accounts, set up
accounts, making sure that The bills and stuff for the sheriff's department are within budget and
are being paid within a correct manner. So I am a civilian within the Hennepin County Sheriff's
Department, which again, just kinda is the public service, public service work that I continue to
do for my community.
Khadra Mohamed 15:23
Yeah, um, you also mentioned that you are on the board of Minneapolis Public Schools.
Sharon Al-Emin 15:30
Yep.
Khadra Mohamed 15:30
Um, can you tell me more about that? And what have driven you to go on that route?
Sharon Al-Emin 15:37
Yes, sure. So I recently elected to the Minneapolis school board, I took my seat in January of
this year, January 2021. School Board is a four year term that we serve, it is an elected position
that the community election, you and you have the opportunity to serve your community. Within
the Minneapolis school board, it is structured with nine other school board, representatives. And
so I am one of the nine, we pretty much govern the school district, and the policies, and again,
the budget, the finances, and how the school is governed. We have our main, we supervise the
superintendent of the school. So that is our job to make sure that the superintendent is serving
our communities, our families, and the best way that they can. And so for me my passion. I
again, I have three children, although my children have went to Minneapolis Public Schools, and
so I had the opportunity to be in the schools, I had the opportunity to build relationships with my
children's teachers, I know the importance of having a parent present within the school, and
whether that's physically present or just communication, right, just make sure that that teacher
and that that school knows that you support them, you are there for your child, and you are your
child's number one fan, if you will, number one cheerleader, right, and that you will be there to
support them all the way. And so I I built lots of relationships throughout my children's school
here. I was president of parent organizations, I have set on site councils, again, to make sure
that our schools have what they need the resources that they need, in order for our children to
succeed. It gave me an opportunity to see how our system and as we know, today, our system
is is continuing to fail our children, and especially our black and brown children, right. And so my
passion for me is was to get on this board to learn more, and to be able to bring it back to my
community. Because the more that we as parents are educated about how the school system
works, the more that we can challenge them about the resources and question and understand
where the dollars are coming from, where they're going, and how much more we need. Right.
And so for me, I saw that a lot of it wasn't that our parents were not actively involved in their
children's education. Sometimes we just didn't know. We just didn't know. It was the school not
communicating to us, as black and brown parents the best way that they can, it was the school
system, judging our lifestyles as a way to say that we are not committed right or that we are not
involved in our children life. And so for me, it's it's a cycle, it's the system. It's the status quo that
needs to be broken. But in order for us to do that, we have to be more educated, we have to
understand, and we have to be able to mobilize our community and bring our parents and our
mothers together. Mothers fathers, and when I say parents, I'm not just talking about mothers
and fathers, right, because sometimes a parent shows up as an older sister. Sometimes the
parents shows up as the it, who's at home, while the mother is trying to work, right? Sometimes
the parent shows up as that uncle who has a little more time and flexibility in his schedule, why
the dad is trying to go out and provide for his family. And so when I say parent I'm speaking very
broad. In terms of parent I'm not just talking about mother and father. Are we freezing up here?
Khadra Mohamed 20:05
I had a little bit of internet issue there.
Sharon Al-Emin 20:10
So I'm not sure if you miss much. But again, when I, when I'm talking about parent involvement
is very broad. It's from all different avenues, not just a mother and father, it's whoever we can
get to represent that child and to be by that child side during that time when needed. So, yeah,
so that is my passion. That is what drove me to run for school board. Again, we have to, I say,
all the time, we have to occupy the seats, so that we can understand and so that our children
can see see us and all these different ways and all these different models, and know that they
can be in these different roles and models, too. So.
Khadra Mohamed 20:54
Okay, thank you, Sharon, for sharing that. And I thank you for doing the job you're doing at the
Minneapolis Public Schools and the board. I know and I also am a special education assistance,
Minneapolis Public Schools, and we know the struggles that students, brown and black students
and families go through every day. So um, what would you like to see change in the school
system?
Sharon Al-Emin 21:32
Oh, that's a heavy one. What would I like to see change in the schools, I want to see more
parent engagement. I want to see
more
a welcoming way for parents to be involved. We have to open the doors and let our parents in,
we have to open the door so that our parents and our teachers and our educators can build
relationships, and work together, we have to work together again, so that we are educating our
communities to understand that why our schools are underfunded, and why we are not able to
have all the resources, the way that we know is so needed, and how do we move together?
Again, how do we mobilize together to make those things happen? I want to see more dollars
going towards our schools. I mean, you know, better than I do, probably the need for in our
special education department. Right. And then when we go again, into our North Side School,
which I am the school board directors for the North side, we know that we are even less
fortunate than some of our white suburban schools, right? We know that we sometimes deal
with our schools not functioning. And the best way, we know that we sometimes I'm not gonna
say sometimes we know that our schools are staffed with more of the inexperienced teachers,
right. But we are the most diverse. on the north side, we are the most challenging when it
comes to the north side. Our children are brilliant, and they just need to be able to be taught in a
different ways. So how do we make sure that our teachers are culturally trained? Right? How do
we make sure that we leave the space for our teachers and our educators to know that we
support them, and the work that they are trying to do and provide all of that they need to be the
best that they can be? So it's it's a heavy load that we all carry. So right now, my priorities within
the school, again, is the parent engagement. I think the more that we can educate our parents
about what the school district actually represent. Where do the dollars come from? Where do
we, where did the resources come from? Whose doors Do we need to go knock that right?
When it comes to more dollars? Is it the senate? Is it our legislative is that you know, we have to
educate our community more when it comes to that and understanding the structure of how the
school is formulated. So that is my goal.
Khadra Mohamed 24:43
Thank you. Um, I also wanna come back to your role and engagement in the community and
the mosque. Tell me more about that.
Sharon Al-Emin 24:59
So I know sometimes I don't know which hat I'm wearing, right? It gets to be so much, but um,
you know, I am the wife of a Imam. And so I mesh to this continuously growing masji al Nur is
where I call home, it is where it's my home, which is located in North Minneapolis here. So I am
going to backtrack just a little bit. Because the masjid it has grown so expeditiously and doing so
many things now. We, we started, where are we in 2021, I want to say about 10 years ago,
when we were just very small, we just masjid al noor, and we began to do our hot meal
program, I was the food coordinator over that. And so every first Sunday of the month, I would
come in and I would prepare 100 meals to be given out to the community. So it was 100 hat
meals that we will prepare, and you know, I would be there cooking the meals up buying the
meals, a lot of times with other sisters, we would purchase the meals, we would cook the meal
serve the meals, and make sure that we were doing diligence in our community. So that was
one of the programs that I had a spearhead for a a couple of years now, at masjid al Nor
transitioning into now we have the Al maa'uun side, which kind of handles more of the food
administrators, the hat meals that are going on, which is which is which is really grew, which is
really grew. So it's more it's a lot more structured. Now. It was like taking that small idea and
expanding it right. And so now we have much more of a food program at our Masjid under Al
maa'uun. That's, I don't spearhead that. But again, I'm the wife of the Imam. So I have to step in
wherever it's needed. Wherever the call is still, I also was a teacher, for our students, our
Muslim children, so make sure again, that we were teaching them their religion, to make sure
that they had the opportunity to explore and understand who they are as young adults, so I have
been in the role of a teacher at our mosque, you know, creating all the different avenues of Girl
Scouts, working with our young ladies teaching them how to just again step into womanhood
and teaching them their religion. I have also coordinated a lot of the different food drives for
giveaways that we do again, through bash the door. Fast forward now, which is Al maa'uun
which is spearheaded by a different group. Because again, it began to grow so much that we
needed additional help so so yeah, that that's, that's just a little bit about me and the role that I
play within the masjid right now. So, yes.
Khadra Mohamed 28:18
Okay, that's great. Thank you for sharing that. Sharon. I also want to ask you about your
husband, the Imam, can you tell me about him and what he does?
Sharon Al-Emin 28:30
Oh, wow, no. My husband, my Makram, we have actually been married 20 it'll be 29 years this
year. 100 de la so we have had the opportunity to grow with each other. He is the Imam of the
masjid. He became the Imam Masjid when my son. Gosh, how old was that son? I want to say
two. So my son was born in 1993. He became the man back in 1995. Again, we were young, we
were young, you know, but we were I want to say that we were ready for the role that allow us
putting us into we were ready to assume the position, if you will, right. So it's been a Imam of the
masjid since 1995. He is also a life coach. So he does some life coaching. Along with again, just
numerous things that he does. He is the founder of Al Maa'uun, which is really again, like I said,
is growing expeditiously. And all the different avenues from working with the food programs to
housing programs to employment training that he oversees to just a number of they he's part of
the interfaith coalition. So, again, making sure we have that list of representation within our
interfaith community, so that we, people know that we are Muslims. And we show up and we
bring what we stand for. And so he has quite the full plate, but alhamdulilah alhamdulileh.
Khadra Mohamed 30:22
Thank you. That's, yes, he does a lot. It's well known in the community. May Allah bless him for
what he does. Um, the other question that I wanted to ask you is, what? Where do you see
yourself in the future? Or where you want to be? Personally, the masjid and anything that you
want to add?
Unknown Speaker 30:53
Sure, sure.
Sharon Al-Emin 30:56
You know, Khadra, that is, I am just gonna be open and honest with you something that I am
struggling with myself right now. Right? community is my passion. So community is my passion,
working with the schools, working with the parents, is my passion. But I also hold my full time
job with the Hennepin County Sheriff's Department. Right now today, I'm struggling with still
being able to show up for my full time job, because my heart is in my community. And so for me,
my future is more of a full time role within my community, a full time role where I can bring more
information to our mosque, to make sure that when we talk about education, that we have our
Muslims at the table, that we have our Muslim representation, that our families are able to not
be afraid of who they are. Right, and we can show up and not be afraid, right? I mean, even as
a African American Muslim, our challenges are different, right? Our challenges are different from
your challenges, right? Because of culture, because a different I thought we're both black we
have we still have a difference within ourselves. And so for me, I can remember my my children
going to school, and the during the time of Ramadan, right, and almost felt like they were
isolated because all the other children were not participating in Ramadan. Right. So and I do
apologize, you know, where Ramadan were fasting its. dry mouth. So I can remember having
conversations with my children about Ramadan, and explaining to them why we are fasting, and
having to explain to them over and over and over why we don't celebrate Christmas, right? And
having to explain to them why our religion, fast forwarding to the Aedes is only the one day and
Christmas, they get the two weeks out of school, and you know, you, you had this continued
battle that was always going on in the home. And so the children didn't feel like they could be
who truly represent themselves as Muslims, right. So it was a continuous battle, within the
homes about the fast thing about the five daily prayers, right, about the no dating about, you
know, all those different things that you have to explain to them over about them that eating
other pork and why we don't drink alcohol and why we don't smoke and why. You know, it's just
a continual conversation that we have to have in our homes. And so for me, those are all areas
where I see myself being able to bring into our community to have those conversate those
needed conversations about these different areas. And how do we how do we create this safe
space right within our messages within our community to be able to talk about these things with
our children? So futuristic, where do I see myself that that is a that's a tough question. My goal
again is more and community I'd never thought I would see myself in politics. Right? But we I
See all the time we plan and a lot of plans, and he's the best of planners, and we have to be
prepared for the roles that he sees best for us. And I know that everything that I'm doing is, is by
the will of Allah is by the grace of Allah and that he is guiding me. And so I don't know, I don't
know, I find myself more engaged in a lot more of the community issues, that we are facing
policies and wanting to understand why, and how can I make things better?
Khadra Mohamed 35:34
Yes, yes, thank you so much for touching all that. It's a lot when it comes, especially to young in
youth to understand all the different perspectives of culture and religion, and how to balance that
it's really hard. I know, a lot of students that I work with a lot of young folks that I see struggle
with identity with their religion, and also with their culture, and some of our immigrants come
from different culture. It's a really, it's hard for them to see the differences in that. So I'm glad
you touch that, and I hope someone will be able to see and read your interview and be able to
understand
this is
this is a fairly hard question. And since you are working with the community and are fairly active,
I want to ask you the current event that's happening in our community in Minnesota. We have
witnessed some justice yesterday in the case of George Floyd and the police, who have killed
him. So I do want to ask you about that the police brutality, the injustice and all that is going on
and you choose what do you want to answer?
Sharon Al-Emin 37:25
Okay.
Okay. I mean, it yesterday was a historical moment for us. I think everyone was taken by
surprise, right, we just were all sitting in bracing ourselves for the verdict to come out. And so we
found a lot of it, and I'll just speak for myself, I found myself in a lot of anxiety. You know, just
very. I mean, the unrest was real, even even within our own community. And so for me, to have
to watch the trauma of how Mr. George Floyd's life was taken right before our own eyes. And I
can remember when it happened, you know, just thinking past that, that could be my husband,
that could be my two sons. That could be my brothers. And so when I see George, I see all the
black men that are play critical roles in my life. And so to see this, and the way it unfolded, to
see him screaming out, he can't breathe. I can't breathe, my head hurt. My body hurts.
Everything hurts to hear him scream for his mother, to hear him, you know, scream out for his
daughter, it just again, as a mother of an African American son. It hurts everything in your body.
Because again, we know that that could be our child. That could be us. That could be us. And
so yesterday's verdict brought a moment of relief. I don't say justice just yet. Because we we still
have or let me take it back. I say it's the start of justice is the start of justice for us. Because it's
one verdict does not healed all the wounds that we have had to bear for years. Right. And so I
actually felt like I could breathe a little bit yesterday when the verdict came in, actually felt like
that anxiety was knocked down just a little bit for the moment. But I know that we still deal with it
every day. In fact, while we were out with community, another black teens life was taken by the
hands of the police, Daunte Wright? Not that day, Wrigh was one. But then there was another
teenager that was just shot and killed a column in Ohio. At the same time, and so for me, black
America, the pain that we in the pain that we have suffered over the years, that one vertic is not
justice. And our attorney general Keith Ellison said it in the best way, he said, this is how
accountability looks. Right? He said, how these offices where this officer was held accountable
for his actions. And as we go on, and we hear more, and we know that justice is when our black
men and women does not have to be afraid, when they see the blue and red sirens, in the back
of their cars, right? When they are pulled over by the one who's supposed to protect us. Right?
That's when justice will be served. So we have a lot of work to do. It was a moment of relief. But
it was a start of the accountability. And it shows me how we we again, we have to occupy the
seat, the strong leadership that is needed on the political Avenue, right, and how we have to we
have to continue to mobilize our community, we have to continue to protest and we have to
continue to show up and demand and command the accountability that has to happen across
the board that is in our education system that is in our criminal justice system that is in our
housing system across the board of what needs to take place for us for black and brown people.
Khadra Mohamed
Most definitely I am going to wrap up and say thank you so much for taking this time to give me
your oral history and giving this history for Muslims in MN if there is anything else you want to
add I will love to hear it.
Sharom Al-Emin
I mean sister Khadra I think we have touch quite a bit being black in American we know it is a
full time job right and being a Muslim African American in America makes the job even more
twices hard so we again have to continue to show up we have to continue to being in a space
we have to continue to have work to have safe space and being able have broad conversations
to be able to be authentic and be able to show up and not to be afraid to repersent our selves as
African American Muslims.
Khadra Mohamed
Absulitly I can not top anything on that so I am going to stop on there and Thank you so much.
Sharon Al-Emin
Alhamdulileh Alhamdulileh your welcome
Show less
Salma Awil 0:01
Today's date is March 29 2021. My name is Salma Awil and I'm here with
Zack Abdullahi 0:06
Hi, my name is Zakariya Abdullahi And I am 22 years old.
Salma Awil 0:11
So I just wanted to start off. What was your morning like today?
Zack Abdullahi 0:16
Um, that's a great questio... Show more
Salma Awil 0:01
Today's date is March 29 2021. My name is Salma Awil and I'm here with
Zack Abdullahi 0:06
Hi, my name is Zakariya Abdullahi And I am 22 years old.
Salma Awil 0:11
So I just wanted to start off. What was your morning like today?
Zack Abdullahi 0:16
Um, that's a great question. Um, I had classes and stuff in the
morning, so I had to, you know, be awake for that. Also, this morning,
I watched the Chauvin trials just to understand what's going on. It
was very interesting. I do want to go into law. So I was like, this is
a really good way to understand what's going on, especially so close.
Ours is like, you know, our city and like, our campus. So yeah, that
was those that took up a big part of my morning. Yeah,
Salma Awil 0:45
they brought their first one witness in today. And I was like, Okay,
I'm gonna watch it. But I kind of got a littel glimpse of what was
going on today.
Zack Abdullahi
Yeah, no,
0:52
Salma Awil 0:53
yeah. So What year are you? for college?
Zack Abdullahi 0:57
I'm a senior. So I'm going to be graduating in like, a month or
something.
Salma Awil
Congrats.
1:01
Zack Abdullahi 1:01
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.
Salma Awil 1:04
Tell me a little bit about yourself.
Zack Abdullahi 1:07
For sure. So like I said, my name is Zakariya. Um, I was born in
Kenya. So when you were talking about Kenya, I was like, I remember a
little bit of that. But I didn't live in Kenya for too long. I lived
there for like two years. And then I moved to Somalia. And we lived in
kismayo for a while. Me and my mom. And then we moved back to Kenya
for like, a little bit. And then we moved to Uganda. And we lived
there for like two years. Yeah, no, we moved back to Kenya. And I was
like, Oh, my God, this country. So um, yeah, that was that. And then I
came here on is about eight years old. And I've lived here like, since
then.
Salma
A lot
from?
years
Awil 1:41
of traveling a lot back and fourth. So how was it I'm traveling
So you said you came? You came back here when you was eight
old?
Zack Abdullahi 1:50
Yeah. Yeah. moved to America when I was eight,
Salma Awil 1:53
eight. So how was it like going from Somalia to Kenya to here and then
coming back here?
Zack Abdullahi 1:59
Um, it was very experience
Salma Awil
of all
2:01
Zack Abdullahi 2:02
like, yeah, it was very weird, because in Kenya, like, I lived in
Nairobi, in a community. Like little I don't know what it is, but it's
called Eastleigh. And so it's basically a sub section of Nairobi. And
there's a huge Somali community there. So when we left there and went
to Somalia, I didn't know we left because I was like, oh, more
Somalis? Yeah. So like, it wasn't really that different. And then when
we when we went to go live in Uganda, we lived in the capital city
city, Kampala. And we lived in like a majority Somali neighborhood.
But Kampala was a little different. Because there was more like, you
know, non Somalis, and I got to see them. And I remember thinking,
like, because most of most of the people I met were Muslim, but like
they weren't Somali. So I was confused. I was like, how can you be
Muslim and not Somali? Because I thought I'm assuming Somalia was the
same thing. And then I came here, and then that was, yeah, that I got
thrown out the window because I was like, dang, like, no Muslims.
barely any. And yeah, that like, the whole thing was just different.
Cuz in Africa, like, you're just living your best life, like you don't
have to stress about much. And then come here, and it's very
different.
Salma Awil 3:05
So how was it when you came here? And did you fit in with a somali
community or like, slash the Muslim community? How was it?
Zack Abdullahi
Yeah,
3:13
Salma Awil 3:13
you said you had problems with uganda . So coming here from like,
Kenya, you said something about going Somalia to Kenya, and you feel
like you're still at home? Because, you know, with the Somali
community. So coming back here, how was that with? You know, finding
your own community? Like was that hard? Any experiences that you had
with?
Zack Abdullahi 3:31
Yeah, no, that's a good question. Um, yeah. So when I came here,
everybody's like, Oh, your fob, because you're not English. I don't
remember much To be honest, like the first like, year or something,
because I remember it was just like, I could understand English, but I
couldn't understand it that well. So I knew what was being said, but I
didn't know like, how to respond and stuff. And so I think I came like
first second grade or something. And the Somali were like, he's a fob,
like, don't talk to him. So that wasn't, that wasn't like, I didn't
really connect with them as much. And then I went to a, like, a cadaan
school, I guess, public school. And it was just awkward, because like,
I didn't know anything, like I didn't know how to interact with people
nothing. And then I would fight people a lot because I'd be like, Oh,
you're talking shit about my mom. Like, we're gonna fight and so like,
there's just a lot of fights. And yeah, so like, I didn't know
anything. And then my dad took me to a charter school. And it was very
small, like you were talking about earlier. And there it was still
like your fault because I still didn't know English. So yeah, so
they're still like, Yo, dude, you're fob. Like, we're all born here.
Like, you know, speake English. So I was in ESL for like, two three
years, like just trying to learn English, make sure I had that down.
And then after that, things got better because like, it felt like I
was part of like, you know, the society and community cuz like, I have
gotten used to things by them.
Salma Awil 4:52
Okay, so you said he went to a public school to
did you go to? That the two changes from public
transition go was it like hard, even though you
mentioned. So like that to transition like what
like, public to charter cuz. For me it was kind
cultural thing. Yeah. Um, is that same for you?
a charter what schools
to charter? Yeah. that
said it was kind of
made your parents
of more like a
Zack Abdullahi 5:14
I think so because for me like I was just the troublemaker because I
was fighting everybody in their mom and the public schools and my dad
was like, well, maybe he goes to a school for people that look like
him and like, you know, speak Somali a little bit like they can defuse
the situation. So that's why they took me there. And I went to Wilson
Elementary School, which was also I think they had like a Spanish
Immersion program. And the horrible thing is, I was learning Spanish,
and I wasn't learning English. And they're getting tired of me because
you're here to be learning English, not Spanish. So the whole school
is trying to me My dad was tired of it. So they just took me to the
higher ground Academy, which was in St. Paul. And that places Somali
Central. So yeah, and I remember when I first came into that school, I
was like, I saw all the Somali boys. And I was like, Oh, my God, like,
this is amazing. And I remember going up to him be like, hey, do you
want to be friends? And I was like, in third grade or something. And
there would be like, who else's weirdo bro. But after a while, like, I
think like, couple weeks and like it was it was fine. I was still the
fob because like, I still didn't know English that long. But the cult,
like, changing into that, like getting to know people wasn't too bad.
Salma Awil 6:18
So how is it now with the Somali community right now live from like,
he said, he came here at eight till now. So was that any hard finding
like you know, local mosque like masijd finding within your own
community? Have you had any had any hardships with that?
Zack Abdullahi 7:02
I would say not too much. Because my dad lived here before me. My mom
came here. So Excuse me. So he was like, he knew all the masjids. He
knew everything. So when we came here, I kind of just followed his
lead. I had family and cousins that lived here. So like, I got to be
with them and kind of like connect with Somali community there. I
would say the only change I saw really was when I went to high school.
I went to Roseville area High School in Roseville. And there wasn't
that many Somalis there at all. So it was hard like to connect, and I
lived in Roseville. So like, I didn't get to see that many Somalis
ever. And the first time I ever came to Minneapolis, like for more
than like, a couple hours when I was when I moved on campus for
Augsburg, so living in Roseville and going to school, they're like,
I've barely saw Somalis. And so there was a huge disconnect when I
came to Minneapolis here and like, I got to meet Somalis at Augsburg
and Somalis in the community. Because they were like, Oh, you act
white. And you think your white, And you think you're better than us.
And this and that. And I was like, all, you know, like, cuz I feel
like our values, not our values, perse, but like, just kind of the way
we are. Yeah, is they thought they were like, Oh, you don't hold those
values that we hold. And so for me, I'm like, Oh, well, like, I want
to be on time like this, this and that. And like, I remember freshman
year, people were like, Oh, you you want to do this, this and that.
And you think you're better than us. And you think you're not Somali
and blah, blah, blah. I'm just like, cool. But I think the core values
still exist that you know, like, we're Muslims, and we have these
values that you know, we uphold and that type of stuff. But there's
little
Salma Awil 8:34
Yeah, I understand. Okay, so how was it when you came here? Cuz you
said on Roseville for her freshman year? How was it with you know, cuz
he said there was a little disconnect. How did that go for you?
Zack Abdullahi 8:48
Um, so freshman year, I lived on campus. And I had three other
roommates. One of them my direct roommate was Mexican, and the other
two were Somali. And like I said, like, our culture's, I guess, kind
of like, me, and the other small guys weren't really like, compatible,
just because like, they grew up in Minneapolis, and like, this was
their area until like, they would always have friends over. And for
me, that was like, not like, you can't just have random people like in
the living room and in my bedroom. Now that's so like, we had that
clash. And they'd be like, yo, just chill out, bro. Like, you know,
and that's where the whole like, Oh, you think you're white, all this
part stuck in. So it's just kind of hard to try to connect with people
because it was like, all like, we do these things. And like, you don't
do these things. And you know, it's just weird. But I think after a
while, I was just like, finding my own thing and doing my own thing
and not being like, Oh, I need to find friends or I need to find a
community this and that. And I think now being a senior like, it's
definitely changed where I do have a lot more Somali friends. And I
think it's just about finding like people that you click with, like
you said earlier and then just going from there.
Salma Awil 9:50
Definitely. Okay. So this is kind of on since you're graduating. What
are your future plans, like what do you want to do and why? Yeah,
that's
Unknown Speaker 10:00
where I'm so I'm actually accepted an offer from the U of M, the
Humphrey School, literally right there to start my master's of
development practice in September, so shall be going into
international development working on doing Education Development,
either in Africa or the Middle East. So hopefully, doing that stuff.
So yeah, thank you. So, because, like, I remember being a kid in
Africa and like, be like, my daughter would be like, oh, education is
super important. And when I travel, like, and I go visit, like home
and like mogadishu, or wherever, like I always see, like a lack of
education. And people like need an education so they can build their
country and their selves up. So that's why I'm like, I want to go into
that field and like, dedicate my life to doing that for like, our
communities.
Salma Awil 10:46
Great. MashAllah, amazing, you know, going back home to like, because
that I still going back home again, I see videos, or like my mom
talking about it, saying, you know, we have a lack of education, they
would come here for Yeah, I totally understand. You know, MashAllah.
Congrats on that. So, what other countries? Have you been to? I know,
this is kind of off topic?
Zack Abdullahi 11:09
Yeah. I visited a couple countries, I'd say,
Salma Awil 11:13
like, rather than Uganda and Kenya. And so,
Unknown Speaker 11:15
yeah, I would say, I've been to like, if you Eithopia, Israel and
Palestine, which is a weird one, and then Saudi Arabia and the UAE.
But yeah,
Salma Awil 11:26
so that kind of ties into so how is it from visiting other countries?
Like, did you see other Muslim communities? Did you like, you know,
fit in with, like, you know, how was it from experiencing from
Minnesota from home to other, you know, Muslim communities? Yeah. Was
it a little bit different? Was it like, how did that go for you?
Zack Abdullahi 11:46
Um, I would say in the more Muslim predominant countries, like it was,
it was really easy. In the case of Israel and Palestine, that was very
interesting, because, especially being black. Because like, we went,
like, we went everywhere within the country, like we went up north,
like the south and then. So that was a little awkward, because like,
they had, they hadn't really seen like, too many black people up
there. But when we went to Jerusalem, like you, like, within the city,
like there's like, the Muslim quarters, and the Jewish quarters, and
the Christian quarters, and you're when you're moving around those
like the Muslims, like, I don't know how, like, everybody just knows
they're Somali, I swear to god is weird. It's like that type of blood.
Right? Cuz like I was walking around, and they'd be like, they'd be
like, yo, yo, come here, and they use go up to them. They're like, all
right, like, you're Somali, blah, blah, blah, you know, you see, and I
was like, What? And that's the same thing that happens in Medina. And
like, monka, to like, they just, they just be yelling, like Somalis
and stuff. Yeah, so it's, I think the Muslim community, wherever you
go, is very connected. And I think I was surprised cuz I was like, I
would not be able to tell if somebody was like, you know, Egyptian, or
Palestinian or this or that. Like, I don't know, most people look the
same to me. Like, I'm not gonna lie. So yeah,
Salma Awil 13:00
definitely. Yeah. It is kind of hard to tell kind of people but it's
interesting how you said that you went to Medina? Was it? How they
told you, come here, Come here, and know, your Somali. And so that
was really interesting. Was it like, a whole shock like that? Like,
how did you interpret that? Um,
Zack Abdullahi
13:19
I think, because so many like Somalis do visit Mecca and Medina.
They're used to seeing them. So like, I went with a couple guys from
Augsburg and like other other guys from Minneapolis. If I could study
abroad, they did there. No, it was just like a bunch of sorry. No, no,
it's just a bunch of guys that went together. Through this program
called strung together in Minnesota. You might have heard of it. Yeah.
So like, it's just a bunch of boys. There's like 30 or 40 of us, we
all went there. And then an hour hotel is right next to like all the
shops right next to the prophete masjid. So like, we were to go from
our hotel to the masjid you had to pass by the shopping center And
there was be like, a Samana. Like there would be yelling at the top of
their lungs. And then they'd be like, come here, we have a deal for
you. Okay, blah, blah, blah. And it's just like, it's just super fun.
Because, like, they're just like, you know, doing their thing. And
we're just like, having fun. It wasn't like, anything weird or like,
yeah, I'm trying to try to like scam us or something like that.
Salma Awil 14:17
Okay, so back to Minnesota. Is Minnesota, like the place that you
would, like, bring back come back as a family? Is it like a, I would
say, a safe space for us and you know, traveled in different
countries? Would you like to come back here and start a family?
Zack Abdullahi 14:33
Yeah, I would definitely, I would definitely say that, um, but also
thinking of like, what I would do, like, career wise, I'll be
traveling a lot internationally. So I feel like maybe like, living in
different places would also be nice. But I'm also trying to think of
like if like the inshallah, like having kids and like we're, you know,
like constantly moving them because I hated moving when I was a kid.
But I think Minnesota would definitely be a place just because there's
already that that community, that structure and Then like, you know,
they get to see people like them. They also have a bit of diversity
where like, it's not just Somalis. But another place I always wanted
to live. After visiting is Jeddah in Saudi Arabia, because it's so
beautiful and like, I have family and friends there and I was just
like, like this This place is, you know, so yeah, as definitely like,
I definitely think about that like, like either Jeddah, Somalia. I
don't know, like, I feel like there's too many Somalis to be honest.
And then here, just because like, you know, like, they get to be in
that Islamic, like surroundings in Minnesota, because there's a lot of
Somalis in in Jeddah, like, Saudi Arabia, like Mecca is an hour away.
So it's beautiful. Yeah.
Salma Awil 15:40
Um, so how is it with? I would say, since it's more COVID now, like,
you know, we get used to the COVID with wearing mask? How is that with
you? Like, the everything is my virtual and resume? The How is that
with, you know, interacting with other Muslim communities? Is that Is
it hard to like, even, you know, masjid, you know, going to the
mosque, or anything like that, is it more virtual? Like, how was that
for you? Like, how's that road?
Zack Abdullahi 16:07
Yeah, I remember in March, last year, like my dad, when he left for
Somalia to visit, like, family and stuff. And I was just by myself,
and I was like, you know, like, we still didn't know too much about
COVID. Because we were hearing about it. And then like, once he got
there, they started talking about, like, We're shutting down airports,
in Somalia, all this stuff. And I remember like, being like oh Ramadan
is coming up, and like, I'm gonna spend it all by myself. And that was
just sad. Because I was like, dang, like, usually men who mean him
would go to the masjid and like, you know, do our thing. Like, it was
just like, a routine and like culture that we had. And then, like, the
worst part was just not getting to, like, go to Tel Aviv or anything
like that. It was just like, yeah, you were just stuck in the house. I
was just there by myself and be like, just praying and stuff. But
yeah, that has been, I think the worst part is not having that
community because I think Muslim, like, Islam is surrounded by like,
you know, the core things like having that community, like, that's why
we do Hajj. That's what we do Umrah. I'm not like a lot of these
things we do together as a community, so we can build, you know, that
community up. So when COVID came along, he just ruined all that it was
just super hard. Even now trying to go to the masjid on Fridays, like,
you have to sign up on a website, or you have to be in line
Salma Awil 17:19
some masjid, they give you like a COVID screening or something like
that.
Zack Abdullahi 17:22
Yeah, it's very, like they have a lot of things going on. So like, I
have to try to find the right masjid at the right time and all this.
So that does kind of mess that up on. I remember before COVID started.
A lot of the guys that Augsburg and I would go to this mystery type
just like a mile away. And we would go there for like holidays and
stuff. Like now we can't do that. So like, This definitely just
literally just came along and said we're we're I'm ruining everything.
So
Salma Awil 17:49
COVID COVID did really messed up a lot of things. Yeah. Um, so what do
you look forward to like right now? Like, since the Ramandan is coming
up, you know, since COVID? Are, I think my more masjid right now are
starting to open back up? Yeah. Like, what are your plans for that?
Like, how do you feel?
Zack Abdullahi 18:06
Yeah, um, so my dad is back in my mom's back. So I'm like, this is at
least going to be like, not as lonely as last time, it was awkward. So
I'm excited for that. But also, I think, hopefully, the masjid are
opened up, just like going like with my dad and my friends and just
going through the motions and spending time together. Because I think,
like, even with my cousins, like, last year, we couldn't do anything.
So going through the masijid and spending time with them. It was
just, I think, important. So that's one thing. Hopefully we can like,
interact with more people too, because it's not like, you don't build
like community just in the midst of like, you can build it outside
too. So hopefully we get to do that. Hopefully, Eid does not ruin
because last year, that was horrible. It was terrible. So yeah, I'a,
let things work out, hopefully, hopefully and i'a
Salma Awil 18:56
Okay, so another question I'm going to ask you is, how did your faith
you know, influenced your life as a Somali man in the Muslim
community?
Zack Abdullahi 19:07
Um, I would say when I was like living in Africa and like more Muslim
communities, I guess, like, I was a kid, to be honest, but still,
like, I never had to worry about things. And I think of something my
dad told me where he was like, oh, when I lived in Somalia before the
Civil War and stuff like, like, he didn't see like, so like, for
example, like in the Quarn, like, don't do this, don't do that. And
he's like, oh, like, Who would ever do that? Like, why would people do
that? And he's like, when I came here, like, he's like, I saw, you
know, the things that I really I was oblivious to. And so I kind of
have that sense to where I'm like, when I came here, I'm like, yo,
like, my faith is super important. And I need to hold that dear. But I
think one thing that I absolutely love about Muslims and Islam in
general is like, the generosity part. Like we're always and Somalis
like, specifically like you mentioned this to in your interview. But
like, I don't think I've ever been to like Somalis were like stingy or
weird about things. Like they're always so like welcoming and just,
like you never feel like out of place, you know. And so that
generosity for me is important because I've met so many kind people
like around the world, like, Everywhere I go, like I always meet kind
people. And like, anytime I'm at an airport, and like, there's other
Somalis there, they're always helping each other. Yes. And so like,
that's just like, so beautiful to me. And just to see, like, you know,
that they have that common shared identity and like, they will never
probably see each other again, but like, they care about each other
and like, they have that love for each other regardless. So like,
that's something I want to always have like shout, pass down to my
kids and be like, yo, like, you love people. respect people. And just
always be generous to people because like, if you're closing your
hand, you know, like Allah gives you the risk that's not yours to keep
and you know, try to be stingy with so like, always give and always
love, I think would be something that
Salma Awil 20:55
it's really good to hear. So little going back to what you said
earlier, you talked about how you went to Roosevelt to higher ground I
believe. So did you face any like as a Somali boy did you face any
like hardships? Like not hardships but with your faith with? Did you
feel any or conflicted with going to a public school or compared to a
more charter? Because more charter I would say is more Higherground is
more Somali, I would say that much you know Somali dominant, but
compared to going to a public school? Was your deen you know, your
faith? Was there any compromise or anything like that?
Zack Abdullahi 21:32
Yeah, that's a great question. Cuz I remember specifically. So when we
moved to Roseville, and my parents were thinking of like, where to
send me to school and stuff. A lot of the Somali people are like, Oh,
don't send your son to like, Rosemont high school because like, you
know, there's like, you know, like, gay people. And there's like this
and that, like, there's a weird white people and like, school shooters
and all this stuff that they're talking about. And so my parents were
really scared, but they're also like, do like, you know, he's, he's
getting to be like an adult and like, he needs to make decisions for
himself. So they let me go there. And like I said, there was barely
any Somalis in my freshman year, there was like, five of us like three
girls and two boys that were Somali. And I remember like, possible, it
was always weird, because like, I would walk in the hallways, and I
will see people literally eating each other's face and like just
making out doing random things. Like, I remember like seeing people
just disrespecting like their teachers and like, parents in so many
different things. And I would always think to myself, like my dad saw
me like, I would not make it that far. And so like, there's definitely
like clashes where I was like, you know, and the hardest part was
like, trying to pray in high school.
Salma Awil
Yeah, I
22:39
Zack Abdullahi 22:39
think college was easier. But high school I remember telling my gym
teacher, like, all my friends have to go pray like, he was only on
this one kid. She'd be like, no, you're just trying to skip out on
gym, or like math teacher would be like, Oh, you're bad at math. So
you're just trying to skip all like, bro, like, I don't like a little
you take 5,10 minutes max. Like, just to go pray. I remember we had to
go through this whole thing to like, you know, make sure we can pray
and like get prayer spaces and all this stuff. There was never MSA at
our school. So we had to start then, like, try to build community
there. So it was definitely difficult just because, like, it's so easy
to like, you know, like, just go into that, like, Oh, it's easier to
give up than to continue to resist and fight. So yeah,
Salma Awil 23:20
it is hard with the public school to like talk about you know,
religion wise, because back in your time, not saying that your old. It
is really hard to talk about, like prayer, even with right now with my
own. Like when I just graduated high school, it was a little bit more
teachers were like now getting used to like kids praying, you know,
kids getting out of class. But yeah, it was difficult, honestly, I
would say.
So, what are you so coming to freshmen here? I was at augsburg
university? Um, did you like, were you involved? Any other like, like
MSA activities, or any, you know, did you were you involved in any
school activities? Can you tell me a little bit more on that?
Zack Abdullahi 24:02
Yeah. Um, so as I mentioned, like, a little bit ago, In high school,
we started the MSA. And that, like, we started that my junior year,
and I was president for the two like, junior senior year. And so, by
the time when I was done with that, I was like, I'm doing student
organizations. I'm doing all that stuff. I never want to see them
again. So when I came to Augsburg, I was very anti, like student orgs.
And I was just like, I'm not doing this. But I did try to go to like
MSA events and stuff just to like, build that community because I felt
like I wasn't that close to the Somalis. And, you know, I think I had
a lot more like Mexican, like Latin ex friends than I did. And so I
was like, because of my roommate was Mexican. So I was like, all I
need to build that. That's where I went. I went to some PASU events.
And then yeah, and then sophomore year, I was kind of gone most of the
time out the country or like out of state, so I didn't get to do that.
And then last year, I ran for president of PASU. And then I became
president and then that's kind of been really like, that's been most
of my Invand then outside of that just like doing like scholarship
stuff and like fellowship stuff on campus. But yeah,
Salma Awil 25:07
yeah, what is PASU?
Zack Abdullahi 25:10
Oh, my bad, it's Pan African Student Union. Okay, great.
Salma Awil 25:13
Is there anything that you want to conclude or that you want to add
that we haven't talked about?
Zack Abdullahi 25:21
No, I think you did a pretty good job.
Salma Awil
Okay.
25:24
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Natasha J 0:03
All righty, so um, my name is Natasha Johnston Brugger and today I will be interviewing Noya
Woodrich. She graduated from Augsburg with her Bachelor's in 1992 and then her Master's in
1994. And now she is on the Board of Regents at Augsburg and today we'll be talking about... Show more
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Natasha J 0:03
All righty, so um, my name is Natasha Johnston Brugger and today I will be interviewing Noya
Woodrich. She graduated from Augsburg with her Bachelor's in 1992 and then her Master's in
1994. And now she is on the Board of Regents at Augsburg and today we'll be talking about her
experience as a woman student when she was at Augsburg and then also her involvement
afterwards and then any other intersections that come up throughout the interview. So, for my
first question, what was your experience as a student at Augsburg and why did you decide to
attend Augsburg?
Noya Woodrich 0:50
Well, I decided to attend Augsburg because Augsburg offers the Bachelor's in social work, and I
had actually started college over at Concordia in St. Paul. But I didn't know what I wanted to
major in and so when I decided on social work, I looked around to other colleges and
universities in Minneapolis and St. Paul to see who offered that undergraduate and Augsburg
was just one of two at that time. So, I -- that's why I transferred to Augsburg, and I will say that
Rosemary Link, who's a former professor and department chair for the social work department,
she was the person who gave me the tour of Augsburg the first time I came to visit and it's was
really her and her tour and her description of the program and description of Augsburg that that
sold me on Augsburg. And I remain in touch with her to this day, even though she's been gone
from Augsburg for a while. My experience as a woman at Augsburg, um, I would say I don't
necessarily think about my experience in terms of being a woman more so I think about it in
terms of being a native person, and maybe a native woman. So I think in order to understand
that experience, I have to say a little bit about myself in that I am Alaska Native, but even even
though I was adopted and raised by a non native family. And so I grew up in central Wisconsin,
in a German Lutheran community, and was not connected to my community not connected to
my Native community. And so, when I came to Augsburg, I knew that that's part of what I
wanted to do. And made the first step in doing that by choosing the location for my internship.
When you're a social work student, you have to do an internship as a junior, and I intentionally
chose to go to a Native serving organization to do my internship. And that was really my first
intentional contact with my with the Native community here, my community. And so I think that
that really... I knew Bonnie Wallace, who was the director of the American Indian support
program at that time, and I'd met with her as an incoming Native student, but I didn't really utilize
that program or the supports that offered until I was working on my master's degree. I was
fortunate circumstance where my mom and dad were paying for college, so I didn't really need
to worry about getting financial assistance or anything like that. And I was just becoming
connected to the Native community through my internship and my work. And so I didn't
necessarily need that from the American Indian support program at Augsburg. But I remember...
(Pause) Social work you may or may not know is a pretty female dominant dominated field. I
think it's better now in terms of the number of men that the field attracts, but back then, I think
there was two guys in our social work classes, and there was probably 15 to 18 women. And so
it really was my experience at Augsburg was mostly with women. And I think that that in many
ways... (Pause).
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I think back to those times when you have group discussions in class or maybe group projects.
And I don't know that safe is the word but it felt like when you were not in a gender mixed group,
you didn't have to, you already had some kind of gender oriented assumptions in place about
each other. And so you don't need to do that. That kind of learning piece, or recognition that
there were men and women at the table are part of the discussion.
And then the other thing that I really valued was that most of the professors in the Social Work
program are also women. And this is the early 90s. Right? So, um, well, well past those
decades of our history where women had to fight for their rights as women, but not so far past
the 60s and 70s and 80s, where there was still kind of these expected roles for, for women in
terms of being a mother, being at home, not being a professional. And I think seeing Native- or
seeing female professors, who had been in their field of choice for decades, was also good to
see and women of color like Mary Anne Williams and Francine Chakolis two black women,
professors at Augsburg at that time, and they'd been in their field, you know, for three, four
decades. And were really strong women to look up to in terms of the social work department.
And then socially, I suppose this is natural for college for that particular age. Who I surrounded
myself with was all women. And I'll say Augsburg is the place where I developed those
friendships, those friendships that you have for life. Um, you know, my best friend is someone
from Augsburg. And I think that having that kind of sisterhood, you know, when when I was a
junior there, I lived in Urness Tower, because that's where transfer students went. But when I
was a senior we, there used to be these houses that you could use, they were kind of a Greek
system, but not really. And so there was this one house, kind of across from Old Main, where
the-the dorms are now. And there was 13 of- 13 girls that lived in that house, my senior year, it
was like a three story monster house and those 13 of us that live there. And like those are still
some of the best times of my life, right? Just being with women. There was one other social
work major, there was a communications major, there was a business major, there was a
someone who was going into art, you know, I mean, that was a really broad diversity of
disciplines. And then I was the Native, and then we had a black person, and we had an Asian
person. So to the extent that diversity was possible, we-we have that racial and ethnic diversity
as well. And I think just both socially and professionally, still a lot of relationships that I call on
from those early Augsburg days.
Natasha J 9:03
Um, did you kind of feel compelled to go into social work? Because a lot of women were doing
it, or did you feel like you had a choice to do kind of any degree?
Noya Woodrich 9:14
Yeah, I mean, the reason it took me a year and a half of college to decide is because I felt
compelled to go into every field, but social work. My dad was a social worker, and my
grandmother was a social worker, and I knew kind of early on it, that's what I wanted to do. But
my mom was a teacher. And both my mom and dad, neither of them were in their fields for very
long. So my dad did social work for 10 years, my mom taught for like 12, but then they got into
business. So they were entrepreneurs and self employed. They did real estate, auctions,
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insurance, convenience store, you name it. And so my mom, I remember always saying you
need to be -- you need to know that you're going to get a job when you graduate. That was very
important to her. And so she was continually steering me towards fields that she thought I would
be able to get a job in when I was done. I think looking back as a person of color, having a
college degree in the early 90s, like not even a person of color as a Native person getting a
college degree in the early 90s, I could have-- I could have got a job anywhere with any degree,
you know, any initials behind my name, I could have got a job. Um,
I don't know.
I think she based her understanding of social work on my Dad's experience. And so I don't think
she really understood what social work could all encompass. But it was finally halfway through
my sophomore year of college, I said, I'm doing social work. That's what I've always wanted to
do. And I'm going to transfer to Augusb-Augsburg, so I actually have the Social Work letters
behind my name after I get my bachelor's degree. And I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get a job.
And of course I did. But that was I would say that was kind of my story behind social work.
Natasha J 11:21
Was there any specific class that you took that left a big impact on you?
Noya Woodrich 11:26
I hardly remember the classes -- that was 30 years ago
Um
No, I don't think there were any classes in particular. I think there were -- I'm not going to
remember her name -- she was adjunct faculty, but she taught one of my classes my senior
year, of, for my bachelor's degree. And she was the first adjunct faculty I had. And the thing that
I noticed about her, you know, as adjunct, adjunct faculty, you, you have a full time job doing
something, and then you just teach on the side. I noticed a significant difference between her
and the tenured professors at Augsburg in that she could talk about social work from like her
real lived experience, right. So she was still doing social work, and teaching about it. And that I
remember that being really impactful, like me noticing that about her right away, like, 'Oh, she's
like, she's actually still doing this social work thing, and she knows what she's talking about.' I
think I noticed that and then other things are, things I remember about classes were probably
things that were semi traumatic at that point, like the public speaking, pieces of work, you know,
now I can do public speaking and not even blink an eye but then, you know, as a 20, 21 year
old, that was terrifying. And then in social work class, we would need to do like practice
counseling sessions, where two of us would sit in the front of all of the other class members and
do a sample counseling session. I remember research class being kind of scary, because that's
not research is more of the sciency part of social work, and that wasn't my thing. So those are
the types of things I remember I don't really remember anything more than that. I think the
internships were probably what was most impactful for me.
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I will say this was my for my master's degree. So when you do an internship, you also have a
class that goes along with that. And when I did my master's degree, and I did my internship, my
the instructor for the class was Karen Johnson. And her husband was a minister at a church in
North Minneapolis. And I don't know what it was about her that was so appealing, but she really
she really made that class that went alongside the internship feel far more valuable than any of
the others before that had. And she's another one i -- she's about my mother's age, so she's in
her early 80s -- and she and I still stay in touch. And her husband has passed away her son has
passed away. For years at the nonprofit organization I was working at she would bring a group
of students from Luther College in Iowa up to spend a day with me at our organization, so I
could talk about doing social work in the native community probably did that for 15 different
years, 15 different visits. So she's another one, where I, you know, I couldn't necessarily put my
finger on it, but she was another female professor who had an impact in some way. One, so that
I, you know, I'm still in touch with her 30 years later.
Natasha J 15:38
Um, so you did talk about, like, the kind of diversity of the female students in the one house you
lived with? What, um, what did you kind of notice, that's like the overall experience for, like, I
guess, like the treatment of women on campus, I'm sure maybe they had some stories or other
friends. Um
Noya Woodrich 16:10
Well, none of my -- neither, me nor anyone in my friend group had any traumatic experiences at
Augsburg in terms of being a woman and things that can happen to women.
We also I would say, given that two of us were in social work, and all of the other kind of girls in
that friend group or that mini network, or probably a little bit more like minded, either from a
political perspective, or a social perspective. So I know we would do like because of me and the
girl who were in social work, we have connections to the nonprofit organizations and different
programs that they did. So I know, we would do a lot of volunteer work together. And, like, I think
that's always
I don't know, doing volunteer work together, I think sometimes allows you to see the best in
people, right? Because it's depending on what you're doing. You kind of get a different
perspective on people and how they interact with others and how they approach that type of
work, the volunteer work and so I just remember that being have a significant experience. I that I
don't remember. So I you know, I, you know, you hear stories about girls being raped or
assaulted, sexually harassed. That wasn't my experience, that wasn't the experience of anyone
in my group. And, but I also don't remember it being talked about, right, like there wasn't any
class or discussion about this is how you take care of yourself as a woman, a young woman in
at Augsburg and I think of note the fact that Augsburg is where it is physically located. Right. It's
in South Minneapolis. And, you know, I know if I had a daughter and I were sending her to
Augsburg, I'd sit down and have a conversation say, here's some tips on how to keep your safe.
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Keep yourself safe where you're at. I don't remember anyone doing that or having that
conversation. Again, I think it was probably you know, it's on the tail end of the 80s. Early 90s.
People didn't talk about that stuff a ton? And if it happened to anyone else at Augsburg at the
time, nobody talked about it because I don't remember it hear and I don't remember hearing
about it
Natasha J 19:22
Did you feel like there were any, like challenges that were unique to you as I guess a woman
student but also as a Native student that you had to overcome?
Noya Woodrich 19:53
So when I was working on my master's degree, I did -- that's when I need to start paying for it on
my own. My parents were no longer paying for school, so I needed to figure out how to get that
paid for on my own without taking out a lot of loans. And so that's what really when I went back
to Bonnie Wallace with the American Indian support program and said, 'How can you help me?'
and she really, she really did that she like, stepped up and provided a lot of help to me in that
regard.
I think my — the struggles that I had, as a Native student were actually back at Concordia, not
at Augsburg and so there were a few other Native students at Augsburg. I didn't know many and
there weren't any in the Social Work program. And again, my kind of contact with or integration
into Minneapolis as a Native community was happening through my internship.
And so I don't remember thinking a ton about being a Native person when I was at Augsburg
and that might sound weird or interesting, but I kept -- and I probably still do this a little bit,
honestly -- I kept, I kept my Indian friends separate from my non Indian friends. And so I would
go and do things with these people I was working with a nonprofit organization where I was
doing my internship, and then I would come back and I would do things with my Augsburg
friends.
And, and, yeah, even today I don't really mix those groups a ton. And I think that's partially
recognition that there are cultural differences there. And unless I want to be in the role of
teacher where I'm teaching these people how to be with these people, and then then I can bring
them together, but I really, you know, I'm when you're talking about social stuff, you don't want to
also be a teacher. So I don't know that that necessarily has anything to do with Augsburg, but I
you know, I just really I will always be a fan of Augsburg. I think compared to Concordia like that
was night and day. And that's also worked for me. I you know, I grew up like I said, I grew up in
a German Lutheran neighborhood, who was Missouri Synod. And if you're familiar with the
Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, it's pretty conservative. I mean, like, the church I grew up in
women couldn't be part of the church council. They couldn't vote on church matters. It was really
in the dark ages, if you will, and that's how Concordia was right? Like, Concordia was the
Missouri Synod affiliated Lutheran Church, and it was very conservative. And here's part of why
I transferred you, people who went to Concordia, were either going to be a teacher, or they were
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going to be a minister. And so it was the women that were going to school to be teachers and
the men were going to school to be ministers. And I didn't fit either of those, and I didn't fit the
mold of the average student at Concordia. So that, you know, when it comes to being a Native
student, and a woman for that matter, Concordia was the frame of reference, that frame of
reference I was coming from, and so Augsburg was on the complete other end of the spectrum
from that. And so that is the thing that's of note to me, right like that transition from a Missouri
Synod affiliated college to a Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, affiliated college. And
what a difference that meant, for me spiritually, as a woman, as a Native person. It was after
Augsburg that I, that's when I like in finding a church home here in the Twin Cities area, went to
find an ELCA church versus a Missouri Synod because I could I could see what the differences
there were. I think also what social work and understanding Native issues -- like I remember,
you know, when I was doing my internship that was during the Desert Storm, the Iraq War. And
just thinking about that, from a different perspective, like I was always Native, but I grew up In a
German Lutheran neighborhood, community and so that was the perspective that I thought
about things from but as I, you know, when I came to Augsburg got exposed to my community
got exposed to a different, differently, mindset of people, I think changing my thinking about
social issues was really a significant part of that, that time of my life as well. Um, and, you know,
I just, you know, I'll never stop supporting Augsburg like I always, you know, I'm on the Regents,
I'm on the Regents for a reason, because I really care about Augsburg. I've have taught as
adjunct faculty in the Social Work program, I was on the Social Work advisory board for over a
decade. I just spoke in a class last week in the American Indian Studies program, I have been a
speaker at you know, a number of Social Work classes, still in touch with a lot of the professors
that I studied under at Augsburg even though most of them are gone. I can just never say
enough about Augsburg and I think that it whether you're a woman or a person of color, or a
LGBTQ or, you know, whatever the diversity might be whatever-whatever the racial or ethnic or
gender identity or what have you. I think Augsburg does a really good job of creating an
environment where where you can feel accepted. Now, does that mean that it's perfect all the
time? No. It does not. But I think I think that Augsburg does really well in these areas compared
to, because I've worked you know, I of course, got both my degrees from Augsburg, but I also
attended Hamline for a while working at a doctorate degree. I've taught students from Metro
State University I have supervised interns from the University of Minnesota from St. Thomas, St.
Kate's, from Bethel. So I've had contact enough with other universities and colleges in the Twin
Cities that if someone's considering a private option in the Twin Cities, I'll always say you should
definitely look at Augsburg.
Natasha J 27:43
Umm, oh, yeah, so when you were an adjunct at Augsburg? When was that? How long did you
do that for? And you said it was in the social work, right? What did you teach during that time?
Noya Woodrich 27:57
Um I think I taught just two classes. And I'm gonna say my son was pretty young. So it was
probably the early 2000s. I'm not a fan of teaching, to be honest. I mean, I don't mind the
teaching, it's all the stuff that goes along with it, like the scoring, the papers and the reading the
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papers and entering the grades and all that stuff. And mother, much rather just will be a group,
like a presenter or speaker or something like that at a class. Um, so I taught at the masters
level, I taught both ends of the spectrum. So I taught the intro to social work, which is like one of
the first classes that you take into masters level. And then I taught.
I'm not going to remember, but it's in the PDPA. So policy development, policy analysis, PDP
program development, policy and analysis, or administration, I'm sorry, PDPA, program
development policy and administration. So that's one of the two concentrations in a master's
program there in Augsburg and that was my constant area of concentration. And so I taught the
last class in that concentration. So the students in my class, it was literally Saturday afternoon,
of their last trimester of their master's degree program. I will say not the ideal time slot, because
in the master's program, you're going Friday night, and then all day Saturday, so to be teaching
that Saturday afternoon class, everyone was dozing off and falling asleep and, you know, like a
quarter of my job was just keeping people awake for four hours, and then trying to get them to
learn something But I think, you know, again, as a faculty, I think that's space to infuse my
experience, and my nativeness into the teaching of those classes was really welcome. And
really, I guess it was nice to have that leeway and that flexibility to do that, because it can be, I
don't know how it is in other disciplines, but in social work, social work, programs need to be
accredited by the Board of Social Work or by the Council of Social Work Education. And in order
to be accredited, you have to really say, this is the class, these are the things that you're going
to learn in this class. And this is how you're going to learn them. So it doesn't lend itself to a ton
of flexibility. And so the fact that there that I was provided that flexibility in teaching and how I
taught and what I taught, without straying too far from the kind of definition of the class, I think I
really appreciated that. And again, I don't know that, you know, talking about women's issues in
social work is probably a little hard, because it is such a female oriented field that, you know, I
was most of the other faculty that I was working with were women. And let's see. So like in that
particular class, there was only six students, two of them were guys and four were women. And
then in the other social work class I taught it was bigger, it was more like 15 students, and there
was two or three guys in there. So again, mostly dealing with women, and over the course of
time, more women of color than fewer women of color. So I think as a woman doing that work, it
just, it felt really supported. But I think by and large that comes because of the field as well.
Natasha J 32:24
Um, Kind of like — you’re answering all my questions as I think of them in my head. It’s like you
can hear my brain. Like, so, what, you kind of already talked about it a little bit, but what inspired
you to join the Board, and do you feel like your perspective is adding a lot to the Board in
helping out with decisions and stuff?
Noya Woodrich 32:56
Um, so, Bonnie Wallace, who had been the founding director of the American Indian Support
Program, uh, when she retired she came back to be part of the Board of Regents. When she
was done with her term as a board, as a Regent, she helped President Pribbenow find some
replacements and I was one of two Native people that she reached out to. And I’ll say it was
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always something that I was interested in, but I didn’t think that I’d ever rise to the level of
becoming a Regent for Augsburg or for anywhere else. Because it is a, it can be a bit of a
prestigious position I guess. I maybe see that differently now that I am a Regent. So it was, like I
was, like they couldn’t even get the question all the way out of their mouth. I’m like, yep, nope.
And I think I ticked a couple boxes too, right? I’m Native. I’m Lutheran. And that’s, you know,
being Lutheran is part of what they look for in Regents. Not across the board, but um, they do
need to have so many Lutheran people on the Board. So yeah, I quickly agreed to do it. It is one
of those boards, and I’ve been part of Boards of Directors for nonprofit organizations that are
like this where there is a lot of people with a lot of money. I’m not. Right, I’m not. I’m a social
worker. I don’t have money. Not a lot of it. Certainly not millions of dollars to contribute to the
construction of whatever building is being constructed at the time. So in that way, I would say
that I feel a little bit out of my league because I just know I’m sitting next to someone who has
the capability of writing out a million dollar check. I don’t know what that feels like. But I think
where —so the committees that I sit on are Student Affairs and then like Marketing and
Enrollment. And I think, like I think of those marketing and enrollment committee meetings.
Every time we have a meeting and they present their numbers about who’s applied, where are
they in the process of being enrolled, how are they gonna be accepted, are they enrolled, you
know, all of those different kind of measures that, uh, that team of people tracks. Um, I’m always
the one that says, “okay, and how are you doing with people of color?” So, you, you’re telling us
you have really good enrollment numbers, how many of those students are people of color? And
then ask the same question when we talk about retention of students because I know that even
from an employment perspective a place can be really good at hiring people of color it’s another
thing for them to be able to hang on to people of color. Likewise with students we can do really
good at recruiting students of color to Augsburg but if we’re not doing what it takes to get them
to stay there then we’re still missing the (inaudible) in some ways. I think being there and asking
that question at every single meeting just as a reminder to the staff and everybody else on the
committee that we can’t just look at enrollment we need to look at enrollment and dig down into
that to figure out what are we doing to recruit more students of color and hang onto them at
Augsburg. I think that with the student affairs similarly going to the chair of that committee and
saying hey I think it would be helpful for us to hear from the American Indian Support Program
or any of the other kind of support programs that take place to say what are you, do you have
the resources that you need in order to do what you need to do to keep our students of color
here at Augsburg. And then I don’t know that I had anything to do with it, pretty sure I didn’t, but
the fact that it happened while I’m on the Board of Regents and that is the move to pay for
tuition for Native students in totality. I’ll take a little bit of credit for that just because I’m on the
Regents right now. That’s amazing that a private university would take that step to, um, fully
support Native students to attend Augsburg. That’s, um, that’s a rare thing. And it’s certainly uh
trendsetting for Augsburg to do that both here in Minnesota and across the country. And it
makes me really proud that the place that I chose to get my higher education would do that.
Unfortunately, while I don’t make a ton of money, I make just enough that my son won’t be able
to take advantage of that offer at Augsburg. Um, that doesn’t mean I’m not going to try to get
him to go there anyhow. And I think, I think that there are enough people of color on the Board
of regents. There’s three of us native people and then there’s some other folks of color. I think
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there’s enough of us that collectively we can remind the others that there’s different ways we
need to think about this, these issues as a board of regents whether we’re talking about
enrollment, or how much to charge for tuition in the upcoming year, or how to support student
affairs groups, how to support the faculty of the university, how to support the staff, or the
adjunct faculty of the university. I think all of those things — that augsburg is unique in many
ways and a lot of that comes from augsburg’s commitment to doing things the way they’ve done
them for a lot of years. And that’s really significant and I think that if I play any little role in
ensuring that augsburg continues to having a commitment to the non-average person, right? the
diversity, to the, um, racial and ethnic differences of its student body and faculty, then, um, that’s
good, I’ll keep asking the questions and making people think about things.
Natasha J 40:21
And then is there any advice that you’d give to current female students at Augsburg?
Noya Woodrich 40:36
I’ll say the same thing I said when I was talking to that class last week. I think one of the number
one things that I can, that has helped me to be as successful as I am — and I consider myself
successful in my career; I’ve accomplished a lot, I’ve done a lot, I’ve risen the ladder, if you will. I
think the number one thing that’s contributed to that is the relationships that I've developed over
the years. and like i was saying earlier many of those date back to augsburg whether those be
my friendships or my professional relationships I think that having a network of people that you
can call on in almost any circumstance in your career, your life, is really, really important. So, if I
were to say anything to younger folks out there that are maybe getting started it would be that.
take time to invest in your relationship building because those relationships will help carry you
far.
Natasha J 41:59
Was there anything that I didn’t ask you that you want to talk about still?
Noya Woodrich 42:06
I don’t think so. You had some good questions there.
Natasha J 42:13
Yeah. Well, I don’t have any other burning questions either. Um, thank you so much for doing
this interview with me. You had some really great insights. I’m just gonna stop the recording and
then we can, I can just —
First 30 min transcribed with otter.ai, and last 12 min are my own transcription.
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