May Kamsheh 0:01
Today is November 10 2019, and my name is May Kamsheh. This is for the
Muslims and Minnesota project for Oxford University. I'm talking to
one of the Muslim senior citizens in the Muslim community in the state
of Minnesota. His name is Dr. Mohammed Fathi Ibrahim Kamsheh.
Go... Show more
May Kamsheh 0:01
Today is November 10 2019, and my name is May Kamsheh. This is for the
Muslims and Minnesota project for Oxford University. I'm talking to
one of the Muslim senior citizens in the Muslim community in the state
of Minnesota. His name is Dr. Mohammed Fathi Ibrahim Kamsheh.
Good afternoon, Doctor, how are you today?
Mohammed 0:24
Good afternoon and fine. Thank you.
May Kamsheh 0:28
Would you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about you?
Mohammed 0:33
Yes, of course. My name is Mohammed Fathi Ibrahim Kamsheh. I was born
in the city of Damascus in Syria in 1943. Grew up in Damascus and the
suburb of Damascus. I went to Elementary School in the city of
Damascus, and then to the middle school and then graduated from high
school in 1962. And then attended medical school at the University of
Damascus graduated in the year 1969. After graduation, I attended an
exam at the embassy at the American Embassy in Beirut because our
embassy was closed at that time we were in a state of war with one of
our neighbor country, namely Israel. So because of that, and because
of the The problem with the war the embassy was closed in Damascus.
That was in 1970, the spring of 1970. And then I apply to Postgraduate
School at the state of Minnesota University and came for specialty
training in July of 1970.
May Kamsheh 2:36
So are you the first person in your family to be a doctor?
Mohammed 2:41
Yes, I was the first physician before me was my older brother who
graduated four years before me from dental school. So he was ahead of
me in healthcare and he was practicing dentistry in the suburbs of
Damascus, then I working for a short period of time in the same
suburbs as a physician before coming to United States.
May Kamsheh 3:22
Did your brother come to the United States?
Mohammed 3:25
My brother came as a visitor close to retirement after he finished his
career. Before he retire, he came to visit me on a few different
occasions with my parents.
May Kamsheh 3:43
What were your parents like?
Mohammed 3:46
My dad was a very hard working man. He was a business man. And we come
from middle income families and my mother was a homemaker. Because of
the my unfortunate father's education was not completed because he
needed to work and earned the living. He was very concerned about our
future and he always encouraging us to achieve and advance in school.
May Kamsheh 4:29
Did you have any how many other siblings did you have?
Mohammed 4:32
I have four other brothers, two older than me and two younger than me.
I have two other sisters.
May Kamsheh 4:42
Are your sisters also younger?
Mohammed 4:45
I have two older sisters and one older one younger.
May Kamsheh 4:50
Okay. Are they still in Syria?
Mohammed 4:54
No, my older sister has passed on in Egypt after the war erupted in
Syria and Damascus, specifically in the suburbs, they were forced to
go to Egypt as a refugee. So she passed on two years ago. In Egypt, my
younger sister still live in Damascus with her husband and children
and grandchildren.
May Kamsheh 5:31
And your brothers?
Mohammed 5:33
My older brothers died seven years ago [short pause] to heart attack.
The other older brother died also [short pause], two years later. My
younger brother died with intracranial bleed. I'm sorry to say that as
a sad story, but we left with only one brother who lives now in Egypt.
So all other brothers and older sister have gone. [interupts May] Same
as my parents. Yeah.
May Kamsheh 6:16
I'm sorry to hear that. So when you came to Minnesota, were you
married?
Mohammed 6:25
Yeah. I got married just a year before graduation and we have our son,
who was born in December of 1969. When we came here, he was little bit
over seven months old, and we arrived in July of 1970. To attend. The
first hospital I attended was St. Luke's Hospital which is United
Hospital now and a year later, I started my specialty and postgraduate
training at Region Hospital used to be St. Paul Ramsey Hospital four
years and training after one year of internship. And then after I
passed my board, I worked as a obstetrician and gynecologist in the
Twin Cities with Group Health and then Health Partner for 35 years and
I have been retired now for almost 10 years.
May Kamsheh 7:42
And you enjoyed your job?
Mohammed 7:44
Very much so. I have a thank god very productive life. And I have four
children. The oldest, the one who came with us who, almost 50 years
old now he has four children. And he worked in pharmaceutical [short
pause] company [cough]. Ah the other ah children, I have a teacher who
is married and have two children. And then another very nice girl who
got married. And she lived in the suburbs of Chicago. And the younger
daughter, she decided to go into medicine and she has a degree in
neurology and subspecialty and sleep disorder. So she is neurologist
and sleep disorder specialist.
May Kamsheh 8:52
That's cool. So when you came to Minnesota, where did you did you live
in the city or in the suburbs?
Mohammed 9:01
Initially, I lived cross the street from St. Luke's Hospital, which is
United now in St. Paul. And then I lived in St. Paul for four more
years. After that, after I finished training, we move to the suburbs
of Minneapolis to Edine mainly because of the school system. And all
my children graduated from Edina High School.
May Kamsheh 9:33
Okay, so now going into how how was being a Muslim in Minnesota like
when you first came here?
Mohammed 9:43
Initially when we came here, the number of Muslims were very small,
basically some students who form Muslim Student Association. We used
to meet them at the Coffman Union at a University and there are a few
professors teaching at the University. So we used to use to gather in
the Coffman Union for Juma prayer between 1972-1973-74 and then we
were fortunate enough to have a small house on campus who converted to
a prayer place for Juma. After that 1979 we grew out of this place to
a town of Columbia height, where we're able to purchase a church
converted into a mosque in Columbia Heights and that place still now
functioning as a Muslim Muslim Worship place or Masjid. And then after
that we were able to purchase a school in Fridley. And we were able to
establish the first Islamic center of Minnesota and that school, and
we used to have a Sunday school and few years later, we were able to
establish a full time school teacher regular curriculum in addition to
Islamic history and Islamic study. And from there on, the population
grew up very much after the migration, and the refugee of the Somali
brothers and sisters. And we were fortunate to see them coming with
the knowledge of the Quran. Initially, they were 40 of them "hafez alQuran" (arabic), they were memorizing the Quran by heart and they were
able to establish many Masajid (mosques) to teach Quran and Islam and
Islam study. And later on shortly before I retired, two of our leaders
in the state of Minnesota were able to establish a small Islamic
school and it was called Islamic school [stutters] lslamic University
of Minnesota. They were teaching the Islamic Studies and they were
able to to graduate few students initially, and then the number grew
up to the point that they were very well attended. And many
organization came to the Twin Cities including MASS and and their
leaders were very active in promoting Islam and going on to present
slam to high school and to churches and they were very much active in
introduce Islam, the true Islam, to the communities in the Twin Cities
and Minnesota at large. And thank God To have some organization like
this, to let the people know that Islam is not what the media
sometimes project and not what the some people who claim that they are
Muslim with their bad behavior calling themselves Muslim, but they are
not projecting any of the Islamic manners and behavior.
May Kamsheh 14:30
So were you part of the organization that started the school and other
mosques around here?
Mohammed 14:37
I was fortunate to be able to teach on Sunday school, some of the
students in Columbia Hights and then at the school in Fridley. And I
was fortunate to continue teaching Islam and Quran and Islamic studies
for almost 30 years. During my career, mainly Saturday and Sunday, and
I was trying to do my best in addition to my practice in medicine, to
be helpful to other organization that they just trying to establish
themself in different Islamic centers and Masajids it in the Twin
Cities.
May Kamsheh 15:26
So how was it working, being a teacher and handling your life all here
all like?
Mohammed 15:34
Was very exciting. I was very happy to be able to practice my
profession efficiently and able to introduce my kids to Islam and take
them to Quranic studies every Friday night and to Sunday school, every
weekend, Saturday and Sunday. So it was it was very exciting and
productive life. I was fortunate.
May Kamsheh 16:01
That's good. So how old were the kids that you taught?
Mohammed 16:07
We taught kids from grade school to middle school to high school. Some
of the children who were in grade school, they are very productive
citizens now, in the Twin Cities and in the nation, some of them are
doctors and lawyers and engineers, and they were very good member of
the society.
May Kamsheh 16:38
Okay, so back to your childhood, have you so you memorize the Quran?
Mohammed 16:46
Well I memorize some of the small Suras in the Quran as growing up as
part of our teaching, but I wasn't able to memorize the whole course
until I retired, after I retired, I attended the Islamic University of
Minnesota and I was able to complete my study in Islamic Studies and
able to earn a master's degree. And after that I attended the faculty
at the Islamic University and thought some of the students there for a
few years.
May Kamsheh 17:29
Okay, so what was that like?
Mohammed 17:34
[Laughs] It was a very a very interesting, very challenging and thank
God for our leaders and their children. They were very helpful to help
us accomplish our mission. We were able to communicate well with other
leaders. leadership of other religions in the Twin Cities. I was
invited a few years ago to St. Thomas University to attend dialogue.
And between the Christian, the Jewish community, and the Muslims, and
this can discuss different aspect of subjects and was very interesting
and very enlightened by other communities leaders. And in addition to
that, you know, we presented Islam and throughout the years because
every time there is a conflict in the Middle East, we were invited to
different churches and different community to give a little bit
information about what's happening. Why The fighting is going on
between the Sunni and Shia, why the problem and the Middle East been
not stable for a number of years. We like to go back to basics go back
to the true Islam that our Muslim communities should present the true
spirit of the Quran and the true spirit of the tradition of life of
Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam which was based basically
on peace and justice and tranquility, not a war and terror and
terrorism has been projected by some people who know or know very
little levels of Islam or know nothing about Islam because of their
background.
May Kamsheh 20:04
Yeah, I agree. So after you did that, when did you become Imam?
Mohammed
20:13
[Laughs] It is interesting. I don't call myself Imam. I call myself a
student of Islam, a student of Quran. And I am shy to call myself a
man because I don't really feel that I have the quality and the
qualification to be Imam. Imam should be behaving and acting just like
what the prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam did. So up until
now I consider myself the student of Quran and Islam and I still
attend sessions in studying the Quran and studying the tradition of
Mohammed sallallahu alaihi wasallam and studying the history of Islam
occasionally I'd been filling as Imam in some of the Masajids that we
don't have Imam in it yet and I deliver sometimes Juma prayer in
different Masajids in the Twin Cities.
May Kamsheh 21:29
Okay what's what's that like? You do that every Friday?
Mohammed 21:34
Yeah, we do that you know on the Friday congregational prayers, at
Duhr time which is noon time and it is very refreshing to see people
coming to the Masajid and every once in a while we see some of the new
Muslims come to declare Islam after a number of years of searching
about the true God and true religion, and they come from all facts of
life, to declare Islam and we hope that we will continue to help them
reach their goal, and then their new venture of life.
May Kamsheh 22:29
So have you been like a witness or helped someone convert in the
mosque to Islam?
Mohammed 22:36
I like to think so. I attended some of these ceremonies and I
participate in some of them. And I hope that God will help me to
continue to do that.
May Kamsheh 22:50
Okay. Have you have you ever written a book?
Mohammed 22:57
Yeah, I..As a part of my postgraduate study in the Islamic University,
my thesis was the practice of medicine in the light of Islamic
religion. So I was able to write my thesis and then I made it as a
bookwith the title, The Practice of Islam in the Light of ahh "The
Practice of Medicine in the Light of Islam", and it is about 200 pages
booklet and unfortunately, was in Arabic all in Arabic and I wasn't
able to translate it yet but hopefully time will come to translated
into English.
May Kamsheh 23:58
Okay, do you still do like sell that, sell the books to anyone or?
Mohammed
24:02
No, the book is is basically given to the Masajid to be distributed to
the people who are interested in knowing a little bit about medicine
and Islam and the books the book is free and was given to the Masajid
as a free some of the Masajid presented the book as for donation so
they can have the book with for little nominal donation to the Masjid.
May Kamsheh 24:40
Okay, nice. So how do you see the future of Islam in Minnesota?
Mohammed 24:55
I like to see the future of Islam in Minnesota to grow by doing more
of interfaith meeting with our Christians brothers and our cousins in
the Jewish community. I like to see us living in harmony and living in
peace, because all these sections of faith, believe in the same God
and like to live in peace and the raised children in peace and raise
their children as a Muslim as Christian as a Jewish with the value of
Christianity and Jewish and Islamic tradition. In addition to the
interfaith dialogue, I like to see more of our Muslim involved in the
Muslim community itself to branch out and reach out to the Christian
and Jewish population so they know Islam better and build the bridges
of communication so they will be able to achieve their goals in life.
May Kamsheh 26:33
How do you think that will be accomplished?
Mohammed 26:37
By basically knowing each other more the the more ignorance get into
our communities and not able to communicate well the worse it will get
and the more we communicate with each other and know each others will
be able to reach very productive, peaceful solution because we are all
in it together, we are all want to raise our family and live in peace
and harmony and be able to worship comfortably and freely. And we hope
that God Almighty will be with us all.
May Kamsheh 27:31
So looking back at when you first came to the United States, how how
is it different now? The Muslim community and your life in general.
Mohammed 27:42
It is obviously much better because we are in a bigger number. However
the big number is not doesn't really amount too much. I like with the
numbers increasing to have the awareness increase and the value
increase and the high moral conduct to be the one that we are after.
So, in the Twin Cities, we grew up from small numbers that you can
count them between 50 to 100 to almost 250,000 of member of the Muslim
communities in the state of Minnesota. And from one small house as
prayer place now to a 40 place to worship 40 Masjid in the Twin
Cities. The number has to be associated with production of moral and
production of good behavior and production of A good citizen of the
state and the United States.
May Kamsheh 29:05
So how do you see the Muslim community future in Minnesota?
Mohammed 29:11
I'm hoping that the Muslim community as they raise their children have
been holding tight on their principles and not to melt in the in the
general society without identity. I like the Muslim to hold on their
identity as the Muslims behave as a Muslim, to study the Quran and
study the tradition and the life of the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu
alaihi wasallam. I like the children growing up in a Muslim community
to be close to their religion because what I know from the Quran and
Islam and the the life of the Prophet Mohammed much more than my
children and they know more than their children. So I like to have
this awareness and this knowledge to be transmitted from us to the
children and from their to their children and to generation to come,
because we have a very rich religion in faith, in moral, and in good
behavior.
May Kamsheh 30:37
So do you expect it to keep growing over the years?
Mohammed 30:41
Why I sure hope so. I like to see Muslim communities get together,
unify their heart and mind and I like them to continue to communicate
with other part of the communities in this state and the United
States.
May Kamsheh 31:07
Dr. Mohammed, is there anything else you'd like to say as your final
words?
Mohammed 31:14
I like to thank you very much for the opportunity that you have given
me to speak about myself, and my community and my religion. And I hope
that God will help me to be a better person and to help my children to
learn and know Islam and Quran, and they do their job to teach their
children to know more about Islam and the men and the life of the
Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam.
May Kamsheh 31:54
Thank you for your time, Dr. Mohammed. I really appreciate it.
Mohammed 31:58
Thank you very much. Hope to see you again.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Cecil 2021
Fri, 7/30 11:01AM
42:04
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
situation, people, person, pandemic, streets, feet, experiences, life, day, police, homeless,
social distancing, law enforcement, augsburg, homelessness, faith, worst, called, head, place
SPEAKERS
Cecil Scott, Kathleen Clark
Kathleen... Show more
Cecil 2021
Fri, 7/30 11:01AM
42:04
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
situation, people, person, pandemic, streets, feet, experiences, life, day, police, homeless,
social distancing, law enforcement, augsburg, homelessness, faith, worst, called, head, place
SPEAKERS
Cecil Scott, Kathleen Clark
Kathleen Clark 00:02
Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for street voices of change and
Augsburg Central Health Commons. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of
Nursing at Augsburg. Can you introduce yourself for the recording?
C
Cecil Scott 00:17
My name is Cecil Scott.
Kathleen Clark 00:19
Great. And before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being
interviewed and have the interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made
available to the public.
C
Cecil Scott 00:30
Yeah.
Kathleen Clark 00:31
Cecil 2021
Page 1 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Great. Thank you. So can you tell me where you grew up and who you called family?
C
Cecil Scott 00:38
I grew up in North Minneapolis. To the question of who I call family, I mean, I call my
family, family. My grandmother. She had 11 kids here. She had nine kids here two over in
Texas who they were taken from her and that's one of the reasons why she moved here to
Minnesota. So I have a pretty big family. Scotts, Neils, Joneses, Ingrams pretty pretty big
family here in Minneapolis.
Kathleen Clark 01:28
Great Well, can you tell me how you got involved with Street Voices of Change?
C
Cecil Scott 01:33
I got involved with Street Voices of Change in their first meeting. I was homeless. And
someone told me, "Hey they're giving these bus tokens and they're giving away some
some breakfast over at Central Lutheran Church. So let's go over there and check it out,
see what it's about." And upon attending that initial group, and when I found out what it
was about and what was getting started, I wanted to be a part of it and I just kept coming
back after that.
Kathleen Clark 02:17
So what was life like for you before the pandemic and what is different for you because of
it?
C
Cecil Scott 02:26
Well, life before the pandemic was definitely easier due to access of different things but
nothing has really changed. I've always been a person, I practice social distancing before
social distancing was a thing. I'm not a person who really likes to touch other people or be
touched by other people. So social distancing was something that was like cool with me
I'm not a germaphobe or anything like that. But there was something that I was easily
able to adapt to. The transportation in the situation it seemed like people were going to
the left, they were going a little bit crazy. Transportation, riding riding the city bus with
several different people who were experiencing the pandemic with me, some of them just
weren't able to, to maintain it and keep their composure so there was a lot of different
Cecil 2021
Page 2 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
things that were happening on the city buses. Like fighting, people getting upset with
people for not having a mask on sitting, too close to them, and different things like that.
So that in particular made me go out and reget my driver's license and get me a vehicle
just so I wouldn't be dealing with the aggression from other people. As far as my job, my
job never stopped. I've been working continuously through the pandemic. I work for a
company that is an essential company. We we do metal plating, and we do metal plating
for specific government agencies or entities that allowed us to stay open for the pandemic
because they needed their equipment that we were working on. So no, my employment
didn't stop. Then we got in to this, the George Floyd thing. And a lot of different businesses
were burned down. So with the pandemic, and that going on, it was hard to access a lot
of things like grocery stores and buying clothes and different things like that. I'm trying to
think if there's any other ways a pandemic has affected me. Because like I said, I'm pretty
much a homebody anyway. So, quaranting myself wasn't no real big issue, you know. I
gotta a little cat. She keeps me company. So I wasn't all the way alone. Plus I'm computer
savvy so I can communicate with people via internet or Facebook or whatnot. So I think
that's pretty much covers my pandemic stuff.
Kathleen Clark 06:06
So can you tell me a little bit about your experiences? Being either houseless, homeless
are marginally housed in the past?
C
Cecil Scott 06:16
What type of experiences would you like to hear? So yes, there's quite a bit of them. When
I first started out homeless, you know, it was somewhat of a choice. Me and my, my
girlfriend were breaking up. And I could either try to stay in that situation, which wouldn't
probably been healthy for me. Or I could go to the shelter, and just start trying to build
anew, which is what I did, and that turned out to be the best solution. And during that
time, in the beginning of that time, I was robbed. I believe I was stung with stun gun, I'm
not exactly sure what they actually hit me with to, to render me unconscious. But I got
robbed for my little homeless possessions. And they really scarred my face really bad.
And blood, a lot of people thought that I wouldn't heal correctly. I did. And thank God, I
did heal God, God had his hand in that situation as well. So that started making me
change my drive of what I wanted to do, I had already had a job. I was already working
40 hours a week. So it just, it just made me go harder. I was working for a temp agency.
And any place they asked me to go, I went, regardless of how far was a how early in the
morning, I had to get up. In some cases, I had to get up and catch a bus to a train and
then ride a bike. But whatever it was, whatever the requirement was, I did that. And during
one of these situations, I was going to a place called the Opportunity Center to eat
Cecil 2021
Page 3 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
breakfast before I got on my first bus and I was riding down Chicago avenue to go to their
seven o'clock meal. And on Chicago and Franklin, I witnessed a man being murdered.
Another man walked up behind him with his hoodie tied around his face and a gun in his
sleeve and shot him in the back of the head just 30 feet in front of me. That situation even
though I've seen death before that situation, really, really awakened me. Because I was
trapped in the streets. And I felt by you know, the streets almost killed me once with the
robbery. And now I'm witnessing a man getting shot in the back of his head. And so it kind
of told me that if I did not work harder or try harder to change my situation, the streets
were going to kill me. So I just went into overdrive and I started showing up at work two
hours earlier and leaving two hours later, which to my to to the owner of the business I
worked for. He just was liked "where did you get this work ethic from?" I got it from the
streets. He did not kind of understand it but, the streets motivated me to get out of the
streets and because I didn't I didn't want to die like that, you know? That's the amount of
motivation, every senses is stuck, just keep the streets from getting me. That was the
second part of that question, I think only.
Kathleen Clark 10:12
yeah, just be your experiences of being homeless or marginally housed or any of that,
which you've answered with some great stories, and also, why you decided to try to make
some changes, which I very much applaud. So, given all that you've been through, and
given the situation in the last 18 months, what gives you hope and strength?
C
Cecil Scott 10:47
Well I'm gonna have to say, my faith in God. In the beginning, it was a little difficult to
activate my faith and activating my faith, what I mean is, you have to believe what you're
actually praying for, and what you're expecting God to give to you. And not all the time
that is easy, you know, that started out for me being a very difficult thing to do, to trust
that it was going to happen, because so many times prayers hadn't worked. And I've just
realized that if I believe God is gonna fulfill these things for me, then it's gonna happen.
And I started doing that, and it's happened over and over, and over and over, and it's
happened so many times that I've become reliant on that. So when a situation comes up
now, where I know that I can't do it on my own, I know that it's gonna be a struggle, and
I'm gonna need help. My first go to is God, because it's been working, it's been working the
whole time, you know, helping me change my situation. And so that's, that's where I go, I
goes straight to God, "this is a lot for me, this I can't handle this by myself." And I trust that,
that is going to be all that I need to do, to give whatever I'm trying to accomplish done.
And thus far, that is what has happened. So that is what I'm doing. I'm continuing to trust
Cecil 2021
Page 4 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
God, and trust that things that I need will be placed in my life and the pathway will be
clear. It's been that way. And then just recently, I had an emergency surgery. And I had to
take a leave of absence from my employment. And during that time, all of these different
fundings, unemployment, and HMLA, all of these different places that were supposed to
be lending, not lending me some money, but giving me some money to support myself
during this time. Those places were not coming through. So I finally spent the last of my
last paycheck. And I just was out there with nothing. And I was running out of gas and
didn't know how I was going to pay my car insurance and different things like that. And I
just said, You know what, I've been trusting God, all of this time. I'm gonna trust God now.
And I drove to a meeting here on E, I was driving on empty when I got here, and did not
expect to get any help from here, but I wanted to attend this meeting. So came in and
started talking in attending in the group. And then afterwards, people wanted to talk to
me and find out how I was doing when I told him and some people's like, "Oh, well, you
know what, we can help you with this." And then I got, I got gas money, and I got my
insurance paid and all of these different things that I did not expect to come out of that
particular meeting happening. And they just further showed me that I need to trust God in
all of these situations, and I'm going to be alright, and I have been, and that's where my
head is focused at that. I'm just keep doing that. I realize also that karma is something
that exists too. I don't think that if I was doing the wrong thing. I don't think that all of
these good things that have happened to me, would have happened to me. I don't think
that people extending their hands out to help me would have been available. I think I
would have been in a whole different time frame for God to work. So, me doing good is, is
bringing me good things and good people into my life. And when I needed help it was
there. So, it's a message to anybody that I like to deliver is that just do good and, and
have faith have pure faith and it'll be alright things, things will fall in place. God will make
sure that you are right to take care of you.
Kathleen Clark 15:41
Well, in the summer of 2020, and with the murder of George Floyd, Minneapolis became
the epicenter of this movement to, you know, call out and change the situation around
racism in our country. Can you describe your experiences living in Minneapolis during that
time?
C
Cecil Scott 16:02
During that time? Yeah, during that time, also, the time is still in existence right now,
actually, in my life, and it's always been that time. The George Floyd situation brung, a
little bit more fear. To me personally, because I'm a black man who's had several
encounters with law enforcement that have not been good situations, I've been assaulted
Cecil 2021
Page 5 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
by police officers, I've been at gunpoint, I've had guns to my head, I've been hit with
different weapons that police use, handcuffs, and this is a lot of treatment that is not not
good. It's something that I would be wanting to experience again, I doubt anybody would.
But with this situation, the fears heightened because I feel like that the police are going to
want to have some type of retaliation. And they're not just gonna, they're not going to
retaliate against anybody, they're going to retaliate against people who look like me. I
don't look like a prep student, I don't look like a person who is, is going to a clerical job
every day, I look more like a street person or urban person. And to some people, I may
even look like a gang member. So I'm just like in that big target pool. So even when I'm
pumping my gas, and I see a police car driving by is a certain amount of fears, a certain
amount of energy that goes through my body, to not only just alert me, but just to get me
aware of where I'm at, in what's going on around me. I don't know how many other people
feel this, this feeling that I'm speaking up when they encounter law enforcement, I don't
believe that it's fair that I have to go through this. I don't go through this when I when I
meet other people. So is this not a race thing? It doesn't, it doesn't matter if it's a white
person or black person, Asian or whatever ethnic origin they may be, it's the whole the
whole environment of policing. When I see a black and white police car, or when I see a
police car, in general, sheriff's car, whatever, I know that there's a person in there that
could potentially cause me harm or even kill me and then possibly get away with it. And I
have no justice. I'm just dead. And that feeling that I get I describe it as fear because I
don't know what other other way to express it. I mean, I'm not walking around, ready to
stick my head in a hole because I'm afraid. But there is this feeling that this cautionary
thing when law enforcement is around that I have and it's only because of situations like
this. It's only because of that. You know, it's not fair to me. I shouldn't have that. That's like
I'm being bullied at school, knowing that I have to go to school and and see this person
every day. And then when I encountered them, I get this feeling that something could
happen. You know? And that's not fair that that's, that's completely not fair. I'm hoping
that you all understanding what I'm talking about, and can get a clear picture of it. But
that, right there is. That is this definitely something that the George Floyd situation has
created. I'm really, I'm really happy with the results and the George Floyd situation. The
man had a very hard death. And it was one of the worst ones that I ever seen. You know,
I've never seen anybody lose their life over several minutes of suffering. I've always seen
like, the guy on Chicago and Lake at night, Chicago, Chicago, and Franklin who was shot
in his head, and they're dead instantly. I've never watched somebody die, slowly, drowning
or, or being choked to death. I've never seen anything like that. And so it really impacted
me. It actually made me angry that that could happen, and these people could get away
with it. So seeing that, they decided to charge them. And one of them is currently doing
time for his crimes. Which I feel the sentence was not fair is it is some success, it is a
sentence because a lot of officers have done worse and not paid the penalty at all. But I
see young men from my urban environment, that do crimes that are similar murder in
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general, and they give 45 years. And then we got this person who was a authority figure.
He's law enforcement, and he's been doing this job for 20, 30 years. And this this person is,
is basically given a slap on the wrist. You give this little 20 year old kid who don't know too
much 45 years for the same thing. It just doesn't, it just doesn't seem fair in that aspect.
But I am glad that some justice came out of that situation. I think that it was downplayed
by monetary sympathy. What I mean by monetary sympathy is they went ahead and they
gave $27 million to George Floyd's family kind of like to say, "Well, here you got all of this
money now. Okay, so let's forget about the fact that this officer is on trial for killing your
son and whatever since he gets out of it don't make a build a big deal out of it, just accept
it and go with the flow." I don't think that that was fair either. I just monetary sympathy
and that's that's how I'm gonna put that but. This George Floyd situation has definitely
changed my life. And it's still changing. And we were going to see what happens. After
this, I mean, it to me this. This is so alive and so real. I may see too much in the things but I
think on the day that that there, Derek Chauvin was convicted. It seemed like police all
across this country just went on a killing spree towards African Americans. And we just had
so many deaths, young girls dying at the hands of police officers. And we had a young kid
over here in Brooklyn Center who was killed by a police officer. And to me it doesn't seem
that that was accidental. She said "taser taser," or whatever. But she was pulling her gun
and shooting this man with her gun and anybody who's had these two items in their hands
knows, they're completely different feel. And it just is just a bunch of BS to me. It's like this,
this is our revenge. You got one of us. So now we get one of you. You know? Actually, it's
not one of us, hundreds and 1000s. Did I did I answer your questions?
Kathleen Clark 25:08
You're so articulate and just, yes, you answered the question. Thank you so much. So, you
know, some of these recordings might be used for people that come to Street Voices to
hear more from individuals on their experiences that as of late, or maybe people 30 years
from now we're going to reflect back. So is there anything from your about your
experiences, or from other people's experiences, who may have been experiencing
homelessness, houselessness, or marginally marginally being marginally housed during
this time period that you would want to make sure that people remembered or reflected
upon 30 years from now?
C
Cecil Scott 25:59
Well, this kind of goes back to what I was saying about, about faith, and just not giving up,
you know? 30 years from now, this is gonna be useful information, just= as well as it is
today, you know, when you're in a homeless situation, you have to believe in yourself, and
you have to have faith, that things are gonna get better, in order for you to make them
Cecil 2021
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better. You know, when I first became homeless, I did not see a future. I didn't see a future
at all. And then once I got established with a good employer, I could start seeing the
future because I started having money. It was like, first I was living paycheck to paycheck,
you know, when I was trying to save money to get into a place. And eventually, over my
time and working, I started having extra money to spend on different things, and being
able to plan to do different things like maybe I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go to my favorite
restaurant this week, things that I wasn't able to do. Or maybe I'm gonna buy this pair of
shoes. Or, you know, maybe, you know that, well, now, now that I'm in my place, different
things now, it's like, "oh, maybe I can buy me some new tires for my truck, or, you know,
maybe I buy a new couch or something like that." But before, I could not see any of that
stuff. I couldn't see it and kind of blinders, you knows, like, starting to feel like the situation
was was hopeless, you know, this endless pit of nothing. And once I started seeing the
future, or seeing that I could plan and I could, I could escape all of this stuff, all I had to do
was not give up on myself, all I had to do is believe myself to do it. You know, even when
other people say, "Oh, you're not gonna be able to do that," you know, I was actually
homeless with my brother and my son. And both of them, they chose to give up and not
go the route that I went, I mean, I even had us all a job at the same place. And I'm the
only one showing up to the job. Neither one of them showed up. But needless to say,
they're both still kinda in the same sort of situation. You know, my son, he's living with his
girlfriend. My brother, I honestly don't know, I just know my brothers in the street life, he's
trapped in there. And he doesn't seem to want to change that. So any advice that I could
give to anybody would be keep your faith, don't give up on yourself. And don't accept no,
you're gonna hear no, a lot. And no's the worst that they can say to you. No is not gonna
bind you tape you up in a corner or something like that. No is the worst that they can say.
And don't always just accept no, you know. Especially if it's something that that you
qualify for. And they say that you qualify for it. You got it, you got to drive in, you got to
get the person up from them. You got to keep going until you get the results that you
want. And that's gonna be coming from your faith and your strength and believing in you.
Certainly got to go as far as you take it.
Kathleen Clark 29:52
So is there, so if you could ask people to work on something or get involved in an issue?
What would it be? Is there something that people hearing this could help with?
C
Cecil Scott 30:11
Well, I'm gonna say there is something that people listening to this could do to help.
Everybody comes from a different environment, and everybody has different teachers, in
Cecil 2021
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the beginning of our life. So our learning processes are different. And some of us are
experiencing different things out of the same situation. And so a person who has positive
energy and positive intellect to, to add to this situation should do that should try to help
the next person regardless of their capacity. I mean, you know, you can, you can be a
homeless person and help another homeless person. So don't don't ever feel like that you
can't, you might have information to give to another person that will help them along in
their, in their life. And so, I would just say, that people of all, of all lifestyles and all social
networks and people all should pay attention to this situation of homelessness, because it
takes all of us to change it, you know. There's doors that a rich person can open that a
person who has poor accommodations may not be able to open. But that person can
open it for that person with poor accommodations, you know what I mean? So well, it's
knowledge too, you know, a lot of our situation goes to education, if a person doesn't
have the knowledge to diplomat, and sort through these different situations and be
diplomatic, when they're talking to people, they're not going to be as successful, you
know. So the more knowledge that a person has to help themself, they're going to do
better. So people have all of these different circumstances, if they pull together and put all
their energy and knowledge into it, you know, we should be able to, we should be able to
help everybody. Everybody should be able to move forward. I don't see being in any other
way. So the way that life in society is always gone. One person can't do it alone.
Kathleen Clark 33:16
That's so beautiful.
C
Cecil Scott 33:19
Thank you.
Kathleen Clark 33:20
I agree. It's almost like you're talking about her inner, the inner weaving dependence we
all have on one another, right? We can't survive without each other.
C
Cecil Scott 33:30
Yeah, basically, basically, like, like I said, you know, our first our first teachers, our parents,
so all of us are gonna have different views and perspectives on life and learning. You
know, like, growing up, you know, in my community, there was this thing against law
enforcement, where, even if we weren't doing anything wrong, we see a police car and
Cecil 2021
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we're running, you know. And we was out there playing tag or something like that. And in
a different environment, it may not be the same. They might see the police car and run
over to the police car, you know, wanting to shake their hands and talk to them and stuff
like that. But it's just all of these communities coming together. For the purpose of
defeating one thing and right now what we're talking about is is to homelessness and
racial equality. You know, if we are pulled together, I believe it can be defeated. I did, my
little research on on racism, and I found out there racism. It only existed for a few 1000
years. It came in the end of the 14 the 1400 century. What it was prior to that, it was rich
and poor. So the rich and poor were fighting against each other. And the poor did not care
what race and Creed's you were we were just trying to defeat rich you know and the rich
discovered that this was happening and so they kind of put in a few different things to
detour people. One was religion, one was race and there's probably a few other things and
now even in this day and age we got different things that divide us like drugs, you know.
So I honestly just think the race card is just a joke it's a game it's a distraction. It's
something put in place to keep us from achieving our ultimate goals and they our ultimate
main goals is to evolve you know. It's like a certain section of people don't want everybody
in time they want us behind time. Just hoping I'm making sense to your because
sometimes I tend to think a little bit deep on on the higher level would obtain so much
knowledge about stuff. Nobody knows stuff.
Kathleen Clark 36:30
Well, just a few more questions and more these ones kind of geared more towards health
what would you say you need to be healthy?
C
Cecil Scott 36:43
Well, seeing that I just had surgery recently, I think I'm doing and I thought I was doing well
before the surgery too. I can only say you know, my personal situation, I would have to say
in order for me to be healthier than I am I would have to have like a dietary and type my
own personal diethiatarian you know, to keep me on track because I live right by a
grocery store and it actually is a butcher. But it's a butcher shop but it has a grocery store
and it is well called Solo and every time I go in there they just got these amazing prices on
steaks. So I'm just like constantly buying steak steak steak steak and my doctor's like, "Cut
that out, you can't just eat steak every day all day!" And I'm like you sure, I can't? I would
have to have personal dietician, you know. As far as that part of my health and I think I do
enough exercise and outdoors. Somewhat I've been going fishing every weekend I do this
every summer go fishing every weekend, until snow and ice come. Yeah, I don't know how
much more I could say on health care. I feel like I'm a healthy person.
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Kathleen Clark 38:28
That's good and I know that you've been in a few times as far as like you know getting
socks and things but is there any other things that would be helpful for us to have or do as
nurses in this drop in center?
C
Cecil Scott 38:44
Well I personally I have bad feet in my family. And me I don't have an arch in my foot. And
so a lot of times I have problems with my back or maybe my feet are hurting standing too
long or something like that. For to have a program here dealing with the feet, wheather it
be like they got a program called Sole Care. I really just adore those when they they've
helped me take care of my feet so many different times and have helped me feel
comfortable about my feet and I think if my feet are healthy, I'm healthy, you know. I can I
can go to work and do my job and different things like that. So I think that would be a
good source of help for homeless people. A lot of times homeless people can't take off of
their their shoes. You know It was a few times and when I was in different shelters where I
had to sleep with my shoes on, because I didn't want anybody to steal my shoes, you
know. And so a lot of times I had on my shoes for three or four days before I could actually
take them off and having my my feet be refreshed or whatever. I don't know what to say.
It's like there's even a brief moments that you know I took my shoes off to take showers
and stuff like that it was like I'm right back in those shoes again, you know. So maybe 20
minutes that I had my shoes off just not really giving my my shoes or my feet a chance to
breathe and get the help that I need. Even even now with with me working, because of my
size, my feet are a long ways away from me. So it's kind of hard maintaining my feet and
so being able to go to someplace like sole care and have them help me with my feet is
just a blessing, it's just great. I think that would be a great addition. Having something like
that going on.
Kathleen Clark 41:29
Was there anything that you'd like to add before we finish for the day?
C
Cecil Scott 41:33
You know, just somebody keep their head up, keep the faith, trying to do good. Trying to
do good.
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Kathleen Clark 41:48
Thank you so much for taking the time to share your story and your insights and have
great day.
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Show less
Darrell Warren 2021
Thu, 7/29 11:34AM
32:35
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, pandemic, life, feel, hope, hear, voices, community, gave, street, health, floyd, situation, call,
officers, law enforcement, interacting, interview, shelter, fighting
SPEAKERS
Isaac Tadé, Darrell
I
Isaac Tadé 00:02... Show more
Darrell Warren 2021
Thu, 7/29 11:34AM
32:35
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, pandemic, life, feel, hope, hear, voices, community, gave, street, health, floyd, situation, call,
officers, law enforcement, interacting, interview, shelter, fighting
SPEAKERS
Isaac Tadé, Darrell
I
Isaac Tadé 00:02
Hello and thank you for joining us today for the oral history project for the Augsburg
University Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tadé, I'm a student intern with
Augsburg Central Health Commons, could you please introduce yourself for the recording.
D
Darrell 00:17
His name is Darrell Warren,
I
Isaac Tadé 00:20
that, yes, yeah. No, go ahead. I cut you up,
D
Darrell 00:25
just participating in this interview here process. So you guys can get a better perception of
what we experienced of being homeless is
I
Isaac Tadé 00:37
excellent, thank you. And just before we continue, I would like to just confirm that you
consent to being interviewed, and that the interview can be stored at Augsburg University
Darrell Warren 2021
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available to the public.
D
Darrell 00:50
Yes, I agree with that.
I
Isaac Tadé 00:52
Okay, thank you. So, getting right into it. Can you tell me about where you grew up and
who you call family?
D
Darrell 00:59
Yeah, I grew up in Chicago, Illinois. And I left there at 17 with the Job Corps and the people
are called families is my siblings, which are deceased, my both parents, grandparents,
older brother and my youngest sister died of cancer. My mom died of breast cancer. My
grandmother died of cancer. My dad had a heart attack and my older brother had a
similar heart attack. And so I just had one sibling left, which is a twin. He's live in Rock
Island. And so people are called family on the streets and being homeless gets you in
different groups that I come across or become apart that's like Street Voices, really have
been supportive and helpful in my needs so that to me is family, those who can identify
your situation and we, you know, kinda interact with each other, they have become my
family and not necessarily bloods. They're my family only through DNA and blood, but,
you know, as far as the situations that I go in, they're not really supportive. You know, or
even been supportive of my situations and my needs, more to my homeless situations and
they have their own lives.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:34
Right, well and you have your dog.
D
Darrell 02:36
Oh yeah,
I
Isaac Tadé 02:37
you got your dog here today
Darrell Warren 2021
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D
Darrell 02:39
Xena, that's my best friend
I
Isaac Tadé 02:40
Xena right there. Yeah, yes sir, yes sir. Okay, thank you. Um, could you tell me more about
how you got involved with Street Voices of Change.
D
Darrell 02:53
Yes I was, actually I was in fear for fear of my life in Hibbing, Minnesota, St. Louis County,
falsely arrested by law enforcement. And then I was one being assaulted, and they
trumped up all these charges on me of fleeing and obstruction and of that nature, and
which is all false and, you know, putting these guns on me so I've been fighting this battle
by myself for probably a whole year now. And, and I had to leave. I had to give up my
place, due to the fact that I was scared to live in that town, you know, cause they kept
harassing me and so I just packed up one bag and left my left my apartment. Been living
in Minnesota then I came to Minneapolis and I've heard of George Floyd and I had seen all
the events happening on TV, with law enforcement, with, you know with, uh with the
shootings. And I came to Minneapolis, Minnesota, you know, to get some help or, you
know, to find a lawyer, civil rights lawyer groups that have a support system, and Steet
Voices was the one that was, I met this guy named Earl he told me about it and and
invited me to a meeting, and I said I'd come by tomorrow morning about Street Voices
and I sat in the meeting and I like what they stood for. So, you know, I feel like I want to be
more of a part of their meetings and things that they do so I want be more involved.
I
Isaac Tadé 04:39
So you've been coming here for about a year now?
D
Darrell 04:41
No actually only I've only been in Minneapolis for a month and a half.
I
Isaac Tadé 04:49
Oh wow, okay,
Darrell 04:50
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D
Darrell 04:50
I'm been fighting my legal,
I
Isaac Tadé 04:52
okay that's been for a year.
D
Darrell 04:54
False, being falsely arrested
I
Isaac Tadé 04:56
right
D
Darrell 04:57
So, Steet Voices, this is probably my second, second meeting. Okay, Street Voices, on
coming.
I
Isaac Tadé 05:10
Well we're glad you keep coming back. Yeah. And I'm sorry about your false accusation,
that's, that's a terrible experience. Um, you talked about this a little bit already, but what
did life look like for you before the pandemic, and what is different for you now because of
COVID-19?
D
Darrell 05:33
I think life was a before the COVID, it was actually going well you know I think what, what,
for me what turned around, wasn't this so much of a COVID thing, it was a president that
we had. Donald Trump. And this was like my whole community changed. You know when
he became president and people just changed, you know, as they started seeing, you
know, color, you know, and I no longer felt no part of the community anymore, you know
I
Isaac Tadé 06:08
and is this, was this in Chicago or was this in...
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D
Darrell 06:12
Hibbing. Hibbing Minnesota, St. Louis County. And it just took a drastic change, you know,
in different groups coming up there and different people from different places of states
and recruiting people for these racial, for their racial hate groups and people just started
changing so I just started not feel like I didn't fit anymore. I'm still trying to have hope, you
know, they're like oh, is this really happening. You know, I would go into stores people
would call the police just for no reason or saying my service animal is not welcome and
I'm constantly being harassed by the police only get behind my car, and I'm like "hey you
know me and they have been in this community for awhile" you know just threw guns on
me and also getting it was getting really hectic, so I had to start being afraid, you know,
fleeing actually, fearing for my life.
I
Isaac Tadé 07:10
So all of those things those are social, and even some like political pressures that were
taking a toll on you, even before all of you know, the pandemic and all of the health
related things like that. How would you say, did, did COVID scare you at all? You know
maybe you're more afraid of, you know the police in Hibbing than COVID. You maybe not
thinking about a virus, that you can't see, you're probably thinking about a gun and an
officer that you can see.
D
Darrell 07:41
Yes, that's exactly how it was. That was the issue, and due to the COVID pandemic, it was
just like, you know, it was a ghost town and if you out at night with a certain time. It was
times where I was, you know, I didn't want to be out at even night to go to the store, it
might start to get dark, to go to the store because it was like, you know, I felt like I was
open season for like be more attacked. Because I did experience to where they had set up
like a curfew and I remember the one officers that come, you know, coming over and I
knew them. They knew me and I knew them, and I'm just sitting there, knowing this still in
Hibbing and I'm sitting there. On my laptop and, you know, they just came to sit there by
me, one standing up in there looking up, never said anything so then I'm like "wow". So at
this time, this is the beginning of the COVID. And so, and he asks, so then I asked him like
"hey, you know, what's going on?" "Oh Nothing we just sitting here." And I made a
statement about George Floyd and I was like, could they initiate a conversation or
anything so I just initiated a conversation but man it was really, right after the killing them
of George Floyd. And I was like "Wow man it's really sad what happened to George Floyd
man I mean, that was some coward stuff to have someone in handcuffs and then, you
know..
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I
Isaac Tadé 09:14
Choked him to death
D
Darrell 09:15
and take the choke them out, take his life. I was like, "man if I was him, I would have been
fighting back" so I had made a comment like that, they are officers. And, and I was afraid
too that they were about to engage, engage, engage me in that way. And they kept
looking around to see if anybody was around. And this drone appeared over us and I'm
like, "Oh wow, I hope that drone has a camera on it" and in someone had yelled out. We
just had a protest up there with, with the police shootings and stuff. And so when I looked
at the drone I was like, "I hope he has a camera on it" you know when somebody yelled
out, "leave him alone." You know I never seen a person or yelled out, and so I just told the
office I'm like "well, I know man is gonna be a curfew at nine o'clock and I'm just finishing
up on my laptop here but is there anything I can do for y'all?" They didn't say nothing. I
guess "I have nothing to talk to you about," you know, he made a statement like "Hey
where was you at such and such time?" I'm like, "what do you mean where was I, like you
seen me at the protests. You know, and I spoke to you. I was really afraid of my life if
anything. And they had finally walked off you know when they seen someone stand out on
the porch. I just thought there's gonna be enough statistical of violence from the police.
I
Isaac Tadé 11:02
That's terrifying. You know as a black man we feel like it could happen to any one of us at
any time.
D
Darrell 11:08
Yes, anytime,
I
Isaac Tadé 11:11
and to be in that position. I can tell you know that was incredibly, well, fearful.
D
Darrell 11:24
Yeah, they're very terrifying. And then I, you know, I try to see, you know, you know them,
not as a whole, as, as always, like, you know what's been using pattern behind a badge,
you know to attack people. And because I also had that experience too. My son, he was
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going to school for law enforcement.
I
Isaac Tadé 11:52
That's right,
D
Darrell 11:52
and he was the only African American in his class so when he used to do to the ride
alongs. And I think this was before Trump became president. We used to do ride alongs. I
know how families would feel when, you know, their husband or brother or wives out there
or some in the field, you know, to serve and protect, right, you know, now he's like oh wow.
You know when I hear sirens or something I call him and I hope he be alright. You know,
and I know that there are some good, you know, officers on force as well you know. There
were time I had to call them, call law enforcement. you know, situations and so I just look
at you know, not the whole force has being, you know, being attacked, but the ones who
can enforce and not abide by the rules. Think they're above the law. Them the ones I have
issues with.
I
Isaac Tadé 12:50
Of course, you know, we trust certain people to enforce the law and we don't expect that
they break it themselves, right, and that they, they also abide by the rules that normal
civilians like you and me have to abide by. Right. So, I guess, first of all thank you for
sharing that, and thank you for sharing your personal experience, um, in what way has the
pandemic shaped your outlook on life. Has it changed how you see things?
D
Darrell 13:23
Yeah. I don't know, the pandemic is like, everybody's desensitized you know. First it was no
interacting, you know, everything is done about monitor, right, you know, virtually,
virtually. And then two and also, I was being taken advantage of too. Like back when I was
going to court, you know, had a bad Zoom audio and a lot of my rights was being
violated. You know where if I do try to speak to defend myself in the courtroom with the
judge, and they would, they would mute me. You know, and then I call him and then ask
the prosecutor, what he want to get for the same thing I was falsely charged for it, you
know. And I would get muted. And, or they would just threaten me with contempt. You
know and they take, I feel I've been taken advantage of doing that type of situation as far
as the pandemic, that we had happening by zoom. Or there were times where I had to
write a motion for a complaint on the judge to have her be removed from off the case file,
Darrell Warren 2021
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because she was violating my due process rights. Would not allow me to be heard. They
just really take advantage over to take a trial, and where I didn't even have, where the
prosecuter have any arrangement or submitted any evidence. You know I wasn't even
being in heard, it was just like "hey you're a number, you know, hey, well you'll have no
rights and you'd be muted, what you say don't matter." And that's the way I was taking
with the pandemic. And then what was scaring me as well, just what I was hearing about,
when I see that people with dying from this from this from this virus. You know and so a lot
of elderly people, family members down in the South, that, you know, have lost in life. My
older aunties and stuff like this. It was kind of scary that part of the generation now was
just gone.
I
Isaac Tadé 15:48
Was there anything that gave you hope through the last year. What made you keep, Keep
going. You had so much going on, you had police harassment. You had your case that
you're trying to fight for in court, the pandemic going on, you know, of course, a national
conversation or or even just, I don't know turmoil over, over, race, you know what, what
brought you hope what kept you moving forward through all that time?
D
Darrell 16:21
What was keeping me moving forward? I was looking for a support system and, you know,
Street Voices was, you know, it gave me hope or when I see the different groups as what's
out there. You know, Street Voices cause they know what they stood for. And not just
stood for, what they was practicing what they was fighting for, and then see. Also what
gives me hope is when I go down Nicolette just seeing, you know, city putting on you
know, different organization, putting out definitely events down on, downtown town bring
back unity. Entertainment, you know, music appearrances, started back interacting It's not
all virtual with Zoom anymore.
I
Isaac Tadé 17:10
Right. right,
D
Darrell 17:13
And, you know, we actually can say hi you know and smile you know and it's not behind
some screen and you know you've been blowing off you know what I'm saying you can
even go to, you know, kids can have no connection with a human being. That felt really
weird, odd and lonely. And you know, to actually be or, you know, just know seeing, you
Darrell Warren 2021
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know once things started opening up and and see people interacting, that's what gave me
gave me and giving me hope
I
Isaac Tadé 17:47
that's helpful
D
Darrell 17:48
to know that, no matter what race, color, creed, you know, I've seen people from all walks
of life and people actually existing, you know, and it's peaceful.
I
Isaac Tadé 17:58
Yes sir
D
Darrell 17:59
unity, started to develop. And Street Voices. Again you know to come here, you know, it
helped me again. A situation to wasting you know, when my car was illegally towed, I just
got a job. I went into Street Voices, you know, was working at a place of hotel told me that
they was hiring, I just started work Friday. Then on Saturday evening, I go and I'm living in
the shelter now and I go Saturday evening. Go back to the shelter and I get off work and
now my car towed, you know, and then that was towed illegally by traffic controls. So, like,
one thing out of another and their price is outrageous. Yeah, and my whole life is in my
car, my vehicle.
I
Isaac Tadé 18:53
Have you gotten the vehicle back or it's still in there?
D
Darrell 18:55
Oh, it's still in there, been in there since Saturday but, you know, you know, the
organization that helped me out with some funding to to get it out today, which is a
blessing because I don't know how to do it I have my whole life in there. Clothes,
paperwork, medical papers, everything, basically living out my car.
Isaac Tadé 19:22
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I
Isaac Tadé 19:22
Right, right. Wow. So you're thankful to Street Voices for helping you get the funds to
hopefully get that vehicle out.
D
Darrell 19:30
Yes, very grateful.
I
Isaac Tadé 19:32
Yeah, yeah. Wow, thank you for sharing that. And I'm so glad that this place has brought
you some hope comfort, support, you know, during this time and. The next question is, is
there anything else that you want people to remember 30 years from now, about your
experience with homelessness during this period. What should people take away, what
should they remember?
D
Darrell 20:03
Remember, the unity, and that there is hope and love in in numbers. You know? And that
no person is alone. You know, I thought I was alone, you know, in the sense of family and
community, feeling belonging, not judged by my race, color, creed or my gender, you
know, which is a beautiful feeling like to be myself and not have to be ashame to what is
going on in my life. You know and you know I could feel free to kind of open up about my
about my experience. where as before I wasn't because I felt, you know, the times I was
confined to someone that I didn't know. Suddenly speaking and it was being used against
me. You know, even I guess some shelters, with staff, you know, they will use it against me
and they don't think nothing of it. The least, little mistake they put you up out of, out of
shelter. You're late, or anything or, you know, you know this, and then just add more stress
because then I'm back, and then I got to sleep outside. You know, just outside of the park
or something so I'm just thankful for what gives me hope to see churches come together
where you know they allow us to sleep in the churches or give us blankets coffee, you
know, water, you know, so yeah that's the community that brought me hope even if I was
living on the streets, that was still, you know, helping people, was actually willing to help
and be a part of that,
I
Isaac Tadé 21:46
you want to people to remember that there was unity during this time.
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D
Darrell 21:51
Yeah,
I
Isaac Tadé 21:51
even though it seems like there's so much division.
D
Darrell 21:54
Yes, yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 21:56
Wow. And your personal story speaks to that
D
Darrell 21:59
yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 22:01
Goodness gracious. Thank you. Um, okay, if you could ask people to work on something or
get involved on an issue, what would that be? Is there something that people hearing this
could help with? What issue should we be focusing on right now?
D
Darrell 22:21
The issue should be focused in on that. You know it's not that hard to smile or say hi to
someone. I remember I was downtown and I've seen Minneapolis Police standing there,
standing by their car, mean buggin', got their uniforms on you know. They have an
influence in their community but they, you know that's trusted they have to earn back and
I asked an officer like, "man, it don't cost you nothing to smile, you know, just to say wave,
you know to say hi, you know you're standing out by your car downtown in downtown
area," you know, but yet not greeting people. But I'm like, "hey, what if a kid come by, you
know and you're being mean to one of this childs. How would that child feel? you know, so
and I talked to a number of offices and sargents and so now I'm starting to see them
working doing the old school. They walk in the downtown area now and they're waving
and their smiling. That made me feel good to see
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I
Isaac Tadé 23:33
comfortable!
D
Darrell 23:33
if they feel comfortable to see it, they actually took a little time to listen and doing it. You
know because people are hurting and angry you know due to violence and, everything,
and loss of jobs, you know, so it's a hurting community as well as businesses you know so
we all got to exist, you know, and then people like myself have a mental illness you have
PTSD. And then, for people to be mindful of, you know before you judge or anything you
know you never know that person mental illness or what's going on in their life. Take time
out to just actually just know, view the whole situation with that person or to say
somethning kind, which is a beautiful feeling. Even I don't have much, but if I have
something someone need it, even if they don't need it. You know, I just go buy water, you
know, from Target and there's on the hot days, I just do some good for someone. And that
gets me out of myself my issues or problems to help someone else. You know with the
change, that made me happy at that moment in time, just to pass out waters, you know.
I
Isaac Tadé 24:48
Man. Going to need water's today it's hot.
D
Darrell 24:51
Yeah!
I
Isaac Tadé 24:53
End of July. Yeah I think that's what you're saying is, you know small acts of kindness, go a
long way. Yeah. I love that. I think everyone should incorporate that into their daily routine
and just, it doesn't cost anything that wear a smile, like you said, right. Well thank you for
sharing that. Um, so just a few more questions about general health. What would you say
that you need for health, as you define it. So, what do you need to be healthy?
D
Darrell 25:33
So I mean, first of all, what I need to be healthy is stability. Because if you have stability,
you can have a little healthy way of thinking. But we struggling, you know, from day to
day, if you're on the streets and homeless, some things stress you out so I find it a spiritual
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aspect, meaning. I have to get out of myself and I was service named Xena. She's been
very therapeutic for me.
I
Isaac Tadé 26:18
Yes
D
Darrell 26:19
you know, because I think without her being apart of my life, and she's five, I don't even
know if I'd be sitting here doing his interview or be in my right state of mind, because, I got
to constantly be responsible for her. You know food, water, shelter, you know, things like
things of that nature. I said I just got hired with employment but I mean. You know, coming
to like Street Voices you know some of the things they provide like blankets, you know,
meditate.
I
Isaac Tadé 27:02
yes,
D
Darrell 27:03
you know, so I incorporate those things when I'm going throughout my day once again. I
will go to the park, you know, just sit in and listen to the birds and sit around the water you
know, around nature. So it gave me that frame of mind, you know, where now it's like in
some shelters, you know they have more resources and where if you don't have health
care, if they found out I was eligible to receive some health loans, in order to get some
health care, you know, to be able to get, you know, my prescription medications, you
know. Check blood pressure, and stuff, you know, things of that nature. Which is,
awesome so I can be kinda monitor of those things. I'm not always doing it but you know, I
just keep going in today like "Oh, your blood pressure's high". I was wondering why I have
the headaches. Okay
I
Isaac Tadé 28:11
There it is.
D
Darrell 28:12
You know then that checklist hits, you know like, "Okay, I need to come get peace of
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mind." And sometimes I don't like being around a lot of people when I'm in that state of
mind and in a dark period but
I
Isaac Tadé 28:30
I understand that,
D
Darrell 28:30
but you know, health care's is very important you know for me to see my medication for
me to eat healthy, you know, fruits and vegetables. And then, and then the community
has been very active in it, you know, you know what, coming around, you know, offering
you know best fruits, vegetables, food, you know, so that's another thing. It's been, man it's
been beautiful. I help anyone along, that they are continuing to help in the community,
you know, to try to have basic needs of food, you know, stay healthier clothing, shoes, you
know. Yeah. Street Voices is like, again it's not one of those organizations who come here
to get clothes or shoes, hot meal a breakfast you know in morning people in meditation
you know a way to start a day
I
Isaac Tadé 29:29
Oh Ellen with that meditation, I love it. I absolutely love it. Yeah. So sound like you said,
you need stability, and within stability, are things that give you stability are. Well, your dog
Xena, eating right, spending some time in nature, and then getting your proper like health
care needs, but, yeah. Okay, excellent. I just wanted to run that back, make sure make sure
I got it. Okay so then, have you met the nurses at Central? Have you met the nurses here?
D
Darrell 30:03
Oh yes, they just checked my blood pressure. They had to check because I felt a little
dizzy and I know they get like that, it might be hot and I'm just wanting to know where it's
at.
I
Isaac Tadé 30:14
Right. Okay, so you've met the nurses, And is there any feedback you have for them.
D
Darrell 30:21
Yes, man. For the nurses that are on frontline you know they they put their lives, you know,
Darrell Warren 2021
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they go out on a limb to still do what they do you know to to help people, I'm very grateful
for, for the nurses, you know that's even hearing in abroad you know to actually dealing
with all this in the beginning and still doing what they need to do to still serve the
homeless. Homeless people, even people that retired is coming out of retirement, nurses,
you know. To give their service and their professions, you know, and then their their advice
or suggestion, you know, we do need to see a doctor you know because we don't always
know without a professional, you know, to point that out, point out to us right.
I
Isaac Tadé 31:16
So you've had a good experience so far, it sounds like with the nurses here.
D
Darrell 31:19
Yes.
I
Isaac Tadé 31:20
Excellent, excellent. And then, do you have any feedback for, like, Health Commons,
Central in general? Is there anything that we're missing is there anything that we can do
better or improve on other services that we're lacking? Anything?
D
Darrell 31:37
Not, not, not that I know but I know for times that come, you know, my mental, physical,
spiritual needs, was, was has been met you.
I
Isaac Tadé 31:49
Excellent. That's what we want to hear. Amazing, thank you. Um, before we finish, is there
anything else you'd like to say before we're done today.
D
Darrell 31:59
I like to say, hey thanks for the interview and say, just continue to keep hope alive and you
know I was a little depressed when I come in, but I got joy, going out.
I
Isaac Tadé 32:18
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Good. Yes, good. I'm so happy to hear that, that makes my day. that makes my day. Well
that's it. This concludes our interview for today. Thank you so much for taking the time to
share your stories and insight with me.
D
Darrell 32:32
You're very welcome.
I
Isaac Tadé 32:33
Thank you so much.
Darrell Warren 2021
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Show less
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral
History 2021
Thu, 7/22 11:31AM
26:53
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, pandemic, floyd, augustana, exodus, catholic charities, place, whatnot, augsburg, george,
receive, put, voices, commons, life, stimulus, homeless, stay, caddy, frostbite
SPEAKERS
Grant Tyus S... Show more
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral
History 2021
Thu, 7/22 11:31AM
26:53
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, pandemic, floyd, augustana, exodus, catholic charities, place, whatnot, augsburg, george,
receive, put, voices, commons, life, stimulus, homeless, stay, caddy, frostbite
SPEAKERS
Grant Tyus Sr, Isaac Tadé, Robert Nammar
I
Isaac Tadé 00:02
Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the Augsburg University
Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tadé. I'm a student intern with Augsburg
Central Health Commons. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording?
R
Robert Nammar 00:16
Robert Nammar
G
Grant Tyus Sr 00:19
Grant Tyus Senior
I
Isaac Tadé 00:21
Thank you. And before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being
interviewed, and having that interview stored at Augsburg University, that will be made
available to the public.
Grant Tyus Sr 00:32
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage
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G
Grant Tyus Sr 00:32
Yes,
R
Robert Nammar 00:33
yes.
I
Isaac Tadé 00:33
Okay, thank you. All right, so can you tell me more about how you got involved. Oh,
excuse me, I'm jumping ahead of myself. Can you tell me where you grew up and who you
call family?
R
Robert Nammar 00:45
Grew up. This is Robert Nammar, I grew up in Indiana. East Chicago. Say what?
I
Isaac Tadé 00:56
Who you called family.
R
Robert Nammar 00:58
My family. Family.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:03
Do you have, do you have siblings?
R
Robert Nammar 01:06
Yeah, I got two sisters and a brother.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:11
Okay,
R
Robert Nammar 01:12
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage
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Just lost one, so.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:14
I'm sorry.
R
Robert Nammar 01:15
Yeah, oldest.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:17
Do you have any kids?
R
Robert Nammar 01:19
no kids
I
Isaac Tadé 01:20
no kids.
R
Robert Nammar 01:20
Yeah, okay. Thank you.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 01:24
My name is Grant Yyus, born and raised in South Minneapolis area, went to school all the
way up to high school, where I attended on Lake Taylor High School and my sister's
husband was in the Navy, so I was in Northrop, Virginia. For people I consider my family,
don't have to be blood related just those that I have been loyal to and show loyalty to me.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:48
Beautiful. Um, so can you tell me about how you got involved with Street Voices of
Change?
Robert Nammar 01:58
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage
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R
Robert Nammar 01:58
I was homeless for a while, so I kind of followed everybody from where to go and stuff.
Tried to fight and figure it out, you know.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:09
It was word of mouth?
R
Robert Nammar 02:10
Yeah, word of mouth. I would follow, and follow people, and it became a thing. They said
they get a meeting. So I've attended the meeting, and it's all good.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:27
And you've been here ever since. How many years have you been?
R
Robert Nammar 02:30
About 10 years,
I
Isaac Tadé 02:32
okay wow. Awesome!
G
Grant Tyus Sr 02:36
My name's Tyus. I've been here coming to these meetings for about a year now. There's a
brother, Stefan, I used to see him on downtown a lot. I used to be at Catholic Charities
Exodus apartments in Augustana, where your school is that, that's where I had received
my frostbite, my dad used to be at Augustana nursing home place for people so. Stefan
let me know about this meeting, I got two kids to my son's name is Stefan, their middle
names. I just been coming in since then.
I
Isaac Tadé 03:09
That's a blood you're talking about.
Grant Tyus Sr 03:10
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage
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G
Grant Tyus Sr 03:10
Yeah, yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 03:11
Wow. Okay, um, I'm gonna ask you about COVID-19. So what would you say life was like
before the pandemic, and what's different for you now because of the pandemic.
R
Robert Nammar 03:23
Yeah, a lot of places were open, you know you can get to stuff and then the pandemic
came, then all sudden closing down. Trying to figure out where to go you know. That's
what happened.
I
Isaac Tadé 03:40
That was a difficult time.
R
Robert Nammar 03:41
Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 03:45
So would you say at this point, things have opened up more, and there are more services
for folks who are homeless.
R
Robert Nammar 03:52
Yeah. Yeah, okay.
I
Isaac Tadé 03:54
But during the pandemic is mostly closed?
R
Robert Nammar 03:57
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage
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G
Grant Tyus Sr 04:16
During the whole, before the epidemic, I don't know. I recieved frostbite like in December
2019, and from the result of that, I end up at the Exodus apartments that's part of the
Catholic Charities, but like I said, I understand that Augustana was bought out by Catholic
Charities, that's where my father used to be at. Before the epidemic I used to umm, I don't
know, I was more involved and things but I didn't have an amputation of half of my foot
and almost all my toes on the other foot. You know, but I'd met George Floyd too, when I
was released from Exodus for like nine days, January 29, 2020. Or no, was it not February?
I don't know what day it was, but I was released for like 10 days or a week a little bit over a
week and he used to smoke his little K2, so I introduced him to CBD so it's a small world
because the place that he got killed that he lost his life in the same place in 1999, when I
got taken out the gang from, out of the gang. I was shot up there. So.
I
Isaac Tadé 05:30
Wow, so what, what was, where were you living during the the pandemic, what was that
like for you?
G
Grant Tyus Sr 05:39
During the pandemic, I was on right there at Catholic Charities Exodus apartments that's
right downtown in Minneapolis.
I
Isaac Tadé 05:46
Okay. Yeah.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 05:47
It was chaotic because there's a lot of different things going on people dealing with their
frustrations and whatnot. The best way they knew how I guess you know I have family
members, that's part of George Floyd Memorial. Guapa, my older cousin and Reginald
Ferguson, down there, they're trying to do something different. There's not a lot of
resources as far as people on to relieve their pain and housing and different stuff that's
been destroyed, but there's not doing that in North none of the properties and stuff so. It's
just a lot of things going on to that's like the ripple effect, it's a flame that keeps going.
I
Isaac Tadé 06:25
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage
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Wow. Okay, thank you. Um, so you would say that some of those things that occurred
during the pandemic, lack of resources are still happening now?
G
Grant Tyus Sr 06:36
Absolutely.
I
Isaac Tadé 06:37
Yeah. So you haven't seen it getting much better?
G
Grant Tyus Sr 06:40
No because a lot of people that are preyed upon are the first people. It's not an epidemic
or could it be not you have to talk to them people personally or just emotionally scarred
about on different things that we live in every day, you know, and these are resources that
are available. I don't think they've been dispersed enough because a lot of places are
desimate, they're empty or whatnot, and then there's people that can utilize that space as
you know and they've said, you know, it's gonna be even more so people that's gonna be
homeless, you know, they always got to increase because people usually living paycheck
to paycheck, you know, if they aint got their own career got some type of way to make
funding and, you know, in all these empty places can be utilized, you know, whether it's
GRH where it's 934 936 a month where the government is paying or caddy program which
I've been in since December where I've been preyed upon more than anybody I know and
I'm the one that put them together. But it's just all these empty places I and all these
people out here, that's all suffering and they shouldn't have to.
I
Isaac Tadé 07:49
So, tell me what a caddy program is
G
Grant Tyus Sr 07:52
Caddy waiver program is for a lot of people have vulnerabilities like me, whether it's
mental or physical which I have both. And based on your like income they'll help you with
housing just like the GRH program I was at a Catholic Charities.
I
Isaac Tadé 08:05
Okay, okay, and you're saying that there just needs to be more of those types of programs
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage
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G
Grant Tyus Sr 08:09
Absolutely because there's all kinds of places that are landlords that might just be
struggling with their properties where they can utilize these type of programs I had a
property paid off.
I
Isaac Tadé 08:20
Yeah. Um. The next question is about your outlook on life. How has your outlook on life
changed because of the pandemic.
R
Robert Nammar 08:37
I'm down on rent. I rent. And I'm starting to get, you know what to call it, I tried to get my
payment. Direct, what you call it
I
Isaac Tadé 08:53
direct payment,
R
Robert Nammar 08:54
no, or that stimulus. Yeah, that 12 houndred dollars. I get the other stuff, they mailed it to
me. They've mailed, and I got that. 12 houndred, boom! Come up, they issued it to an
account. And I don't know what account. And they said they sent a card I don't see no
card. So I got to go through that, things find it to find money. So that's what I've been
going through.
I
Isaac Tadé 09:28
Has it changed the way that you see life.
R
Robert Nammar 09:32
life. See, like, I can't get nowhere. Because the dang pandemic. Yeah, I can't move, I can't
do nothing, You know,
Isaac Tadé 09:47
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage
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I
Isaac Tadé 09:47
and so that that's you're saying that's directly because of the pandemic?
R
Robert Nammar 09:51
Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 09:53
Right. With the struggle that you just had trying to get your stimulus check.
R
Robert Nammar 09:56
Yeah, yeah, bought me a TV, you know, instead of paying rent, but uh, I'm not inspecting
that, I mean I'm expecting, I'm expecting the pandemic, sort of money for that
I
Isaac Tadé 10:09
the stimulus check
R
Robert Nammar 10:14
Yeah. So how would you say that, Oh, I think things probably for me like, when I'm staying.
I'm staying next Exodus apartments for Catholic Charities apartments since December, 18,
2019 all the way to December the first 2020 where moved in to Open Hearts, LLC 44th and
Park, I was receiving on level three and four care, Exodus apartments, and after I had this
assessment for the caddy program I was told I was supposed to still be receiving the least
equal amount of care or higher care since I moved into this open heart place but I've
been, I haven't received nothing at all, you know I've been fending, to fend for myself had
to go to food shelves and different things had to put a camera in my room because
people going in and out of my room violating my space, you know, and I don't see all
people as the same, but I am a victim of sexual assault by a cop in 2009 but I put my ex to
school for law enforcement. Because I believe in doing the right thing, you know, and, but
what the epidemic going on, is like a lot of people take advantage of your vulnerability
see as as a way to prey upon you instead of a way to help you, you know, but I take that
as far as I do, I try to do the opposite of what, what I get, you know saying if I don't like to
be hit I don't hit I never discipline my kids that were never so I like to be out there helping
others with the same situation I'll probably get the opposite up.
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I
Isaac Tadé 11:48
Wow. Wow. So it sounds like you're extremely resilient. For all of the things that you too
have have been through through the pandemic, and you know you're still putting your
best foot forward,
G
Grant Tyus Sr 12:01
or half a foot!
I
Isaac Tadé 12:05
Right! Yes sir, yes sir. So, What would you say has brought you hope through this time what
what lifts you up, what keeps you going?
R
Robert Nammar 12:19
These meetings that, I mean, going to the streets. The streets, what's the go,
I
Isaac Tadé 12:28
Street voices.
R
Robert Nammar 12:29
It's streeth voice, yeah, yeah, you know, at least we can get some tokens. That's it. Yeah.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 12:41
What keeps me going is my faith formost, you know. Oh, my kids. I'm supposed to be in a
wheelchair, I only used to walker or when it's absolutely necessary because I wanted them
never had to see me as crippled as I am or whatnot, you know. And as far as helping
others, I'd rather be able to help somebody else even though I don't receive help without
looking for anything in return, you know, and just, just, just realize that life's about. You got
free will, you got a choice of whatever you do, when you wake up in the morning, you
know, even if the person had a gun to my head I never got backed off from doing the right
thing and not being there for my kids. I just realized that I do go out at all, you know, this is
just my personal fulfillment in it, God has always made a way, you know, so I try to do the
best by him I possibly can and, and just keep faith and that and that alone.
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I
Isaac Tadé 13:37
Yeah, grateful, grateful. So in the summer 2020 the movement against racism had
Minneapolis in the epicenter, with the George Floyd murder. Um, can you describe your
experience living in Minneapolis, St Paul area during that time, what was that like for you,
R
Robert Nammar 14:00
The pandemic was a theme. So, you keep, had to abide by the rules, you know, you go
through the motions. But a lot of stuff, closed down. And they came in, you cant even get
nothing, you know. And now, they open back up. Some now they open, we are trying to
get they're trying to figure out what's going on here, you know? that's it.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 14:35
Yeah. Like I said I'll shut up again. Back in 99, right down 38th and Chicago. That's where
George Floyd got killed, I was born and raised there, you know? And just with everything
going on when things are going on. Usually I'll find stuff on Facebook you know and face
all day as your face I buy the watch unit on the book, you know, my 10 year old daughter
had to tell me that. So I usually, I can see the pain in people's eyes or motions that go on
through by sometimes it just bringing up old wounds but sometimes people are taking
advantage of the same situation and becoming destroyed in this city or state that was
born and raised in and that aint right. If you don't like pain, you shouldn't do painful things
that are inflicted on others. In a lot of people like he was saying they'll work their whole life
to earn a way or make a way and a lot of these just scored some things that never to be
replaced. Just like the healing process. Once you lose something you can't put no bandaid
on it you know what I'm saying.
I
Isaac Tadé 15:42
You can't bring back human life.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 15:43
No, absolutely not. I lost my mom and my sister, my mom and I was nine and my sister
when I was 17 So
R
Robert Nammar 15:51
I lost my dad in 88, and my mom and 96.
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I
Isaac Tadé 16:00
Wow, thank you for sharing. And you said you've a new George Floyd personal.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 16:04
Yeah, I just saw him, he used to smoke some of that deuce, I smoke that k2 stuff and I was
thinking I was making crazy, mad put GPS on my phone I stay right across the street, I'm
late, and I couldn't find my house and now I stay right across the street. But I have some
CBD I told him you know, why don't you try some of this, we were always making fun, I had
my feet then , but they were some stinky little things. To clean the shower whenever it is
CBD. So I got to meet him personally. Even though I was even not even supposed to have
left Exodus, I had two quarter or two statements from the doctor saying I wasn't supposed
to be left in the cold, or whatever. So that's why when the Bill of Rights came to Street
Voices of Change like, think it's rule 23 or 24, I wrote down that part. That a person should
never had to leave this place not a shelter but we look at a place, a person can call home,
you know, she never have to be thrown out in streets. When the world is for everybody,
you know, a person should be comfortable wherever that they're not preyed upon. Yeah.
R
Robert Nammar 17:13
like, like you get this. Like, what is this,
I
Isaac Tadé 17:19
yeah, an interview
R
Robert Nammar 17:20
Interview yeah you know, that's cool. I'm glad you give voice and be heard,
I
Isaac Tadé 17:29
Well you, you people are the people who have lived these experiences, and and I've lived
them so wholeheartedly, right, and so a part of this project is to amplify what you have to
say, because we think that's so important. So thank you for being here. Thanks again. Um,
and then so is what is there. Excuse me. Is there anything else that you want people to
know or remember 30 years from now, about your experience, or other people's
experiences being homeless during this period of time.
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G
Grant Tyus Sr 18:11
I've been like, with Katie, I've been in a steady group for the encampment. I'll be in a lot of
different places where people don't have nothing but they're making the best out of what
they got, you know. If we was all together, you know like in like the ideal world, it was you
know, instead of looking at division or whatnot, and we can satisfy everybody about
humanity, you know, not nothing based on your religion, lack of religion, color, nothing like
that. If it's about humanity, the world would be a better place you know , you only got one
life to live now so and it's a difference between living in that system.
I
Isaac Tadé 18:46
So you'd say, what people got to take away from this situation from this moment of time is
to live in unity and not be so divided, I think a lot of times in this society we find reasons to
be against each other.
R
Robert Nammar 19:05
Something about black folks, you know, get together and talk to us all,
G
Grant Tyus Sr 19:10
There's only one race, the human race
R
Robert Nammar 19:12
yes
G
Grant Tyus Sr 19:12
And so people gotta stop putting ourselves in the box.
I
Isaac Tadé 19:17
Celebrate our differences,
R
Robert Nammar 19:18
yeah,
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I
Isaac Tadé 19:20
Yeah, that's that's beautiful. Um, let me see here. If you could ask to work on something if
you could ask people to work on something, or to get involved in an issue, what would
that be, is there something that people hearing this could help with, where do you think
people like me should be more involved?
R
Robert Nammar 19:44
With this, with the streets, you know, the Street Voices. so you can hear what's going on.
Hey, it's rough out there,
G
Grant Tyus Sr 19:58
That different individuals like us that's out there disabled. Um, probably be them eyes and
ears that most to people aren't able to experience, you know, be able to go different
places but most people have a time limit where they're not able to you know? Even at the
George Floyd, those people that I grew up with their parents or whatnot their kids out
there homeless and then living in places where they fit for animals to live in and nowadays
resources available, what, how is the pain being, not, not consumed, you know, if it's just
like on fire being put on it, you know, or gasoline because nothing being done that like
being overlooked.
R
Robert Nammar 20:39
I was going with the lady one time, she had kids and stuff. Police killed her son over north,
remember that? Tycel Nelson.
I
Isaac Tadé 20:53
What was the name again?
R
Robert Nammar 20:54
Tycel Nelson, he's the first one to get. I mean, that got killed by the police. And then
George Floyd, you know, everybody, you know, all that's happening in the city, you know.
I
Isaac Tadé 21:10
So, um, some of the issues that it sounds like you're bringing up is like violence that we
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need to be aware of and then just more people, more people being aware of
homelessness. Thank you. Um, just a few more questions about health. So what would you
say that you need to be healthy?
R
Robert Nammar 21:35
I got, I got health. I'm healthy, because I get two, I get a VA, and I got regular insurance.
Yeah they keep me going though. And I thank God for that.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 22:04
If I had a choice, I would have a different service provider way at place the place I live,
you know, because all they do is run the service. And that definitely ain't doing anything,
that they're supposed to whatever or claim to do. Other than that, probably for a while,
it's like a home project anyone is supposed to have when they gone to zero.
R
Robert Nammar 22:30
All right. Sixty years old so man, I've been through a lot.
I
Isaac Tadé 22:37
Oh yeah, I'm sure,
R
Robert Nammar 22:40
When I was in the army, they did, they sabotaged me, you know.
I
Isaac Tadé 22:46
What do you mean by that
R
Robert Nammar 22:48
I mean, you know, the dude they come, he came to the... I had a stroke so...
I
Isaac Tadé 22:59
Oh, okay.
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R
Robert Nammar 23:00
We came to the, the guard shack and there was a guard right? This guy he started some
stuff with me and, you know, and I almost went into it right with him. And I quit. Then I
went to the, to the barraks. And, you know, I went AWOL. They had me go, going AWOL
and stuff, dude considered... He threatened me, you know,
G
Grant Tyus Sr 23:34
You done left base and just went to the barraks?
R
Robert Nammar 23:37
I left base. I left, left, went home, came home, you know, that was down in Texas. Yeah, I
went home and then came back, they put me out. And then I've been going through shit
ever since.
I
Isaac Tadé 23:53
Right. And that's why having access to these medical centers is important for you. Yeah,
to stay healthy. Yeah, yeah. Um, next question is have you met with the nurses at Central
Health Commons. And then, do you have feedback for them.
R
Robert Nammar 24:12
Yes, they good, they good people. I see. I see they come in. Soak your feet and everything,
give you what want you know, it's good. Yeah.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 24:21
I want my feet soaked.
R
Robert Nammar 24:23
Yeah, I had a bad toe, toenails kept on going over, you know. They clipped that sucker for
me and everything.
I
Isaac Tadé 24:34
Right, they fixed you up.
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R
Robert Nammar 24:35
Yeah, I got diabetes so...
G
Grant Tyus Sr 24:39
this is done right here?
R
Robert Nammar 24:40
Yeah, well,
I
Isaac Tadé 24:41
Yeah, yeah right around the corner. Right. Yeah. Okay, you'll have to pull up on Monday.
Now you know, now you know, that's great. Um, okay, so then I guess the next question is
do you have any feedback for like health commons, is there anything that we can do
better? Is there anything missing?
R
Robert Nammar 25:09
Nothing I see.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 25:11
Okay, so that's on Mondays?
I
Isaac Tadé 25:13
Yeah Mondays and Thursdays.
R
Robert Nammar 25:14
Yeah, Mondays and Thursday.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 25:16
Yeah, see that's that one she was talking about
Robert Nammar 25:20
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R
Robert Nammar 25:20
my feet is important. Yeah, I have to get them checked and make sure there aint soars.
I
Isaac Tadé 25:31
Okay, so no feedback right now.
R
Robert Nammar 25:34
Nope.
I
Isaac Tadé 25:34
Okay. And then we're just about to be done, but is there anything else that you'd like to
say before we finish up.
R
Robert Nammar 25:41
I thank God because you're around, you know, peoples, getting to know people,
G
Grant Tyus Sr 25:47
Yeah I appreaciate y'all young individuals doing what you need to in life, for real.
R
Robert Nammar 25:52
Get some, get some. I mean help, you know, we need help. You could be like my son in the
studio, rapping or something. At least you're doing something for the cause.
I
Isaac Tadé 26:06
Well, we're trying to thank you, and it wouldn't be possible without your voices, and so on
behalf of Augsburg Health Commons, you know, we just really appreciate it and
appreciate you sharing what you have to offer because your experience is so valuable,
R
Robert Nammar 26:22
because I belong to a dignity center. They come over there they volunteered and and
stuff, you know, people from Augustana, okay. Yeah.
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I
Isaac Tadé 26:33
Yeah, and you appreciate it.
R
Robert Nammar 26:35
Yeah, yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 26:36
Well, it's a beautiful thing to give and receive right Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's about it
for today. This concludes our interview. Thank you so much again for taking the time and
for sharing your stories and insights with me. I appreciate it. Thank you.
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Show less
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
Thu, 7/22 11:02AM
21:27
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
life, epidemic, homelessness, person, blessing, nonsense, illinois, work, pandemic, stronger, katie,
strength, homeless, toll, stay, sharing, melvin, augsburg, minneapolis, mobility
SPEAKERS
Isaac Tadé, Melvin Jam... Show more
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
Thu, 7/22 11:02AM
21:27
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
life, epidemic, homelessness, person, blessing, nonsense, illinois, work, pandemic, stronger, katie,
strength, homeless, toll, stay, sharing, melvin, augsburg, minneapolis, mobility
SPEAKERS
Isaac Tadé, Melvin James
I
Isaac Tadé 00:02
Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the Augsburg University
Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tade. I'm a student intern with Augsburg
Central Health Commons, could you please introduce yourself for the recording.
M
Melvin James
00:15
My name is Melvin James.
I
Isaac Tadé 00:20
Thank you. And before we continue, I would like to confirm that you consent to be
interviewed and having the interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made
available to the public?
M
Melvin James
00:31
Sure, yes. All right, we'll need to be heard.
I
Isaac Tadé 00:35
All right, I agree. Well let's get right into it then Melvin. So, um, let's get to know you a little
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
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bit more. Could you tell me about where you grew up, and who you call family.
M
Melvin James
00:47
I was growing up in Illinois, in a little country town. Eleanor, Illinois area called St. Anne,
Illinois. It's like 65 miles south of Chicago, okay. And raised in the country. And my mom
had 18 kids by one man. And so now we're down to five out of 18. So, I'm 62 years of age
now. I'm blessed and not distressed, and I try to give everybody else, the blessings. Some
what of the blessings that I have rolled up, rolled up around and the wisdom and and the
thoughts and humor
I
Isaac Tadé 01:49
The humor is a good part of it. Yeah. So, you, you said you had five siblings remaining. Do
you have any kids of your own?
M
Melvin James
01:58
Yeah. Four boys.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:59
Okay.
M
Melvin James
02:02
They stay in Illinois. Okay, I'm in Minnapolis, Minnesota. Okay, yeah, it was, I was 45 years
old when I moved to Minneapolis, and I'm 62 now, it'd be been, been a winding road, you
know, everybody's life goes through a wind and roll, you know, I live in, You know, but, you
know, I kind of, kind of try to remain, stay correctly into the end of my life. Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:33
Excellent, thank you. Um, can you tell me more about how you got involved with Street
Voices of Change?
M
Melvin James
02:40
I was homeless here a few years back, and stuff and so I become what you say, what can I
say. Kin of your life, you know, try to follow the, the pattern, who can help who, you know,
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sort of make my weakness, the strongest point of my life. And it was difficult, you know,
you know, but I think I found the nearest right path to walk down, you know, some paths it
was far off, you know, but I ended up finding it near the near path the follow to walk
down. Then I got to thinking about who I am, you know, as a person, you know, without
the thinking of a bad person, you know, and I'm not all that good either.
I
Isaac Tadé 03:53
I think we all got a little bit of that.
M
Melvin James
03:56
It was difficult work. I haven't, I haven't really reached any between harms in our I never
really put myself in harm's way too often. Unless it. If it doesn't benefit me I don't worry
about it. I don't worry about their, their, the, the nonsense. In life, you know, what nonsense
and will be available to you no matter what situation you might be in go through you
know nonsense gonna be there anyway.
I
Isaac Tadé 04:37
Okay, so what did life look for you before the pandemic, and what's different for you now
because of COVID?
M
Melvin James
04:44
Well, life. Before the pandemic, life was nice was gravy, you know, it was, it was
comfortable, you know, I did everything normal that I supposed to do, you know that to
keep myself raised as a human being, you know, and keep myself in a proper position. You
know they whenever they made here, it did it really take a toll on me you know it. Never
tripped over my own feet you know during epidemic, you know, but it slows down a lot, a
lot of preparations of things that I need to get out and do you know and people that need
to. People that I like to keep company with, you know, you know, they put a damper on,
you know, oh, on my lifestyle, you know, it's like basically like, I think everybody life is like,
put on hold. You know, you have to move to like you put on hold. There you go, but taking
all this nonsense drama care at all, you know, so I try to keep you away from their
nonsense, but it's available to you no matter what, you know, I'll come to you don't ever
work, but I was, as I stayed comfortable within myself, you know, everything, everything
worked out for me. Yeah. Good. Very, very well. Okay. very glad.
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I
Isaac Tadé 06:17
Okay, thank you for sharing
M
Melvin James
06:19
I took some losses, you know, epidemic, but it wasn't cause of covid and stuff, you know,
peoples' health get to fail I just buried a sister back here July the forth, just buried a sister
this year July the forth, and stuff, it wasn't because of that epidemic, their healthcare just
keeled over on them. Oh, yeah. But everyday, families, family that stays together family
that prays together stays together.
I
Isaac Tadé 06:50
Yes sir, yes sir. Um, so, in what ways has the pandemic changed your outlook on life. Do
you see things different now?
M
Melvin James
07:02
It's about the same, you know, do I enjoy my life is coming back stronger and stronger and
stronger, you know, day by day, hour by hour, you know, you know, you have to kind of
think about where you was before the epidemic, and where you gonna be after the
epidemic, you know, you get to kind of put that positive mode back into your life that you
had before, the epidemic, You know and I think things do it work out a whole lot easier.
And to get back normal. And I think that kind of trying to think ahead of what you should
process. After the effort epidemic, you know you should keep that same process, you
know, but upgrade it, you know, a lot, you know, a lot different.
I
Isaac Tadé 07:55
How would you say that COVID-19 change homelessness or affected homelessness, I
should say.
M
Melvin James
08:02
they get affected homelessness. A lot serious not motivated in a person that living in a
own home, you know where they can be provided for and gone, give a person at home
that they got nowhere to go, but to the shelter where the shelter is not providing them the
shelter that they need in a life, you know, they really need in a life that they nobody take
the time to feel they need the to gonna try to say to you know, To give them the blessing
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
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that they really need, you know everybody is, you know, they've got a job, concept, you
know that don't involve homelessness, you know, don't involve homeless you home that
you get home, you know this, this is this is this, this is the service, we got you you want it,
you take it, you know, if you want it you want it, you're not getting it.
I
Isaac Tadé 09:09
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I'm in the summer 2020 The movement against systemic
racism had Minneapolis at its epicenter, with the murder of George Floyd. Um, can you
describe your experience living in Minneapolis St. Paul during that time. It's a heavy
question
M
Melvin James
09:33
Yeah this is serious. Nonsense take a take a hold up in everybody's life. nonsense take a
hold up in everybody life, you know, and you take you take advantage of that nonsense,
you know, it's no, it's no, it's gonna, it's gonna through some red flags, you know, and it's
other people that doesn't challenge you on what you about what you work in for what
you're trying to learn, you know, that's, you know, that's, that's, that's a toll. You know
that's a toll, each and everywhere's life, you know. cuz you got to understand that other
people, different people lives matter to different people's, you know, it's a concept of what
you got to invite to, you know, what do you have to bring to the table, you know, you
bring you bring, You can't, you can't take. You can't take you can take a round table, and
make it a square, you know, you take a square table and make it round, you know, but
how round Do you want this table to be, you want to tell will be round enough for people
to sit around round enough for people to learn from around enough people to eat off. You
know, this is you know this is just, it's just a question on each and everybody's action in
everybody's head.
I
Isaac Tadé 11:04
What has brought you strength and hope through the last year.
M
Melvin James
11:09
Because I'm blessed not to distress for one thing, you know, and I do not let stress really
get to get to my soul. You know always tried to be blessed, you know with all types of evil,
you know, are trying to keep, keep my blessing. This is my priority my blessing is my
strength my blessing is my, my, my speaking. And my blessing, you know this is my
hungryness, you know, I'm starving for more blessing. I'm hungry for more blessings and
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blessings, never, never bertrayed you.
I
Isaac Tadé 11:52
I like that. I like that. So is there anything else that you want people to know or remember
30 years from now, about the experience. It's the experience of homelessness during this
period of time. What do you want people to remember.
M
Melvin James
12:10
Remember to hope, the hope that you get it life the hope that you, you get that you build
a strength for, you know you got to have hope. Have strength, to learn from our mistakes,
you know, the strength to strength. Strength on a soul in your body in your mind is the
strength of your life, you know, this is firstly your life, you keep that strength life upon you,
you know, you get you get stronger and stronger.
I
Isaac Tadé 12:41
That's what you want people to remember. Just beautiful. Um, if you could ask people to
work on something or get involved in an issue, what would that be, is there something that
people hearing this could help with what issues need more attention.
M
Melvin James
13:02
Violence. Trust. It's sort of a different flaw and every day. There's a different flaws and
every day but keep your head up, you know, keep yourself. To keep yourself out of harm's
way and in mobility yourself to be stronger, you know by everybody else's strong, you
know, trying to be strong, you know, invite you know, they strong this, instead of they
always be weak, you know, never, never, never challenged the book by a cover. Yeah. Y'all
we had to y'all we had to open the book to read the pages to see how, each and
everybody life is. You just can't look at the cover and judge a person by their appearance.
Yet, you go to somebody by their apearance, you miss the whole message you missing the
whole message, you have to open the book and read the pages of this notebook of life.
I
Isaac Tadé 14:20
So are you saying that people shouldn't make make assumptions and that they should
live experiences so that they can know where to be like helpful?
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M
Melvin James
14:33
Oh yeah, yes. I mean, don't don't put yourself to be homeless, you know, homeless.
Homeless Not, Not, not, not a class act. there's something that that comes overnight, you
know, you might wake up in the morning you might you might do some you might say
something to somebody, somebody might, you know, don't, don't appeal of what you say
or don't approve of what she's saying or what do you want to do, you know, and that can
that can take that could take your life backwards. That could take your life backwards,
you know, i think for some sort of some some, you know, in aint about drug and alcohol,
contents or nothing like that, you know, but that can be it can be our total fault, too. But
keeping you keeping your mind, mobility in a positive state. If you lose a positive state
that you might lose out on everything, you know, that can bring you to homelessness and,
you know, trying to try to try to pay Paul, trying to rob Paul to pay to pay Peter, you know,
you voice, you work against yourself. You never take you never should work against
yourself, you should be able to work with others.
I
Isaac Tadé 16:06
Okay, thank you. And just a few final questions geared towards health. What would you
say that you need for health? What do you need for good health?
M
Melvin James
16:20
good vitamins. Okay, good positive role model. Good a good for good, you know, he take
a good or bad, good for good. And try to...it's hard to try to eat right, you know, we, we get
a certain age, you know, when you're a kid, you know you can your parent. Somebody
that's overseeing you can, can, can help you feed yourself right but once you get older,
you really doesn't. Yeah, you really doesn't, you know, you want to do just stay healthy.
Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 17:25
Have you met the nurses at Central? And then, do you have any feedback for them.
M
Melvin James
17:31
Oh yeah they good people. A really good part of the people they people person, you don't
have it. Everybody I think come to the site about three to four times a year, maybe less. I
really don't keep count I just ideas come where, where I know I can feel creative, or I can
feel life, or I can feel wanted to feel love, you know,
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
I
Isaac Tadé 18:00
And you feel those things here?
M
Melvin James
18:01
All right, good. That's why I come, yeah come to here all the time, you know, because I
feel, I feel like this big old coffee house. Yeah with enjoyment, you know that keeps me to
come and sit down and you can basically talk about anything that going on with what in
your life, and ask them about how they life, treat now, you know, you know, Katie. She's,
she's a wonderful, she's a wonderful girl. And all her all her followers were
I
Isaac Tadé 18:35
little disciples
M
Melvin James
18:36
right you know, they, you know she out he hand picked them her group, it that they want
to hang out with it, you know, but I feel that the group of people that that Katie mends
with is good people like her, you know, good, good positive people like her, you know, as I
come through her you know and I see a new face a new nurse or something, you know,
And they say back you know they like. I'm trying but you know I'm trying to, you know, not
to get too evolved in a homeless person or a lot of visitors. And I'm like, "well it's your first
time? yeah well it's my first time too.
I
Isaac Tadé 19:34
relatability
M
Melvin James
19:35
right yeah, my first time here today. Oh, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, you know, don't,
don't be afraid, you know, say something we just people right, you know, Yes, you know,
just be careful, a while for you to open up, you know, around you around peoples that is
less, less, less unfortunate, but what, but they try to, they try to not try to force they selves
what they try to learn your education as you try to learn my education, right, like, Yeah,
I
Isaac Tadé 20:15
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
Page 8 of 9
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
okay. Yeah. Okay, thank you. That's really good feedback for the nurses I think they'll
appreciate that. Um, is there anything else you'd like to share before we finish today.
M
Melvin James
20:28
I appreciate every day this church in every place I go, you know they welcomed me with
open arms and, you know, let me, let me joke with them and, You know, they gave me
some feedback some joking feedback. And I like that I like, like a strong person, you know,
a person that won't be a person, you know, definitely a people person, you know, that
excites me. It keeps me motivated, you know, I know, I know where to come, when I, when
I feel like I'm down all I gotta do is think of, Central Lutheran Church, Katie, all in them,
you know, and that brightens my day. You know,
I
Isaac Tadé 21:12
that's beautiful.
M
Melvin James
21:13
Brigthens my day.
I
Isaac Tadé 21:14
Okay, well thank you, that's all the questions I have for today. Again, thank you for taking
your time and for sharing your stories and insights, Oh, you're all right. Thank you.
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
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