Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
Sat, 2/20 3:08PM
1:35:23
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, dude, ai, shit, girl, kate, man, thought, human, teeth, petty misdemeanor, day, walking, job,
good, story, told, big, bike, eat
SPEAKERS
Sean Johnson, Isaac Tadé
I
Isaac Tadé 00:01
So thank you for join... Show more
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
Sat, 2/20 3:08PM
1:35:23
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, dude, ai, shit, girl, kate, man, thought, human, teeth, petty misdemeanor, day, walking, job,
good, story, told, big, bike, eat
SPEAKERS
Sean Johnson, Isaac Tadé
I
Isaac Tadé 00:01
So thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the Augsburg University
Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tade. Could you please introduce yourself for
the record and tell us what your position is?
S
Sean Johnson 00:16
My name is Sean Johnson. Born 3/31/68. I was originally in Louisiana and I live in
Minneapolis. my position is I was homeless for the past three years. But I've been in
housing for the last year.
I
Isaac Tadé 00:35
Great, thank you. Before we continue, I'd like to confirm that you consent to being
interviewed and have that this interview is stored at Augsburg University, which will be
made available to the public.
S
Sean Johnson 00:48
Yes.
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
I
Isaac Tadé 00:49
Okay. Thank you. So can you tell me more about where you grew up, and who you call
family.
S
Sean Johnson 00:55
I grew up in a town called Ponchatoula, Louisiana. And what I call family was a family of
10. five boys, five girls. My mom had three kids, but my dad had seven later. So I grew up in
a big family. I have a daughter now of my own, one. And that's pretty much it.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:21
Can you describe your educational background?
S
Sean Johnson 01:24
Education, that's a funny one. Um, I was actually honor student in my whole life. But I quit
school and I kind of gave up on school. I'm a cancer survivor, I got cancer at 15. So I
finished high school, I went to Southern University for a semester, then got kicked out
second, second semester that quit going. And then at 19, I moved to Minnesota. And I
worked at the U of M. And they payed for school. So I got about two years, and that was
at that same time. I got about two years, there doing a work-study thing. So I probably
could graduate if I go back for about two years, going back to three semesters, but that's
pretty much it.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:11
How has homelessness and our housing insecurity affected your body, your mind your
spirit?
S
Sean Johnson 02:18
Boom! It affects all that. The thing that homelessness does that I don't think it gets enough
credit for is actually the people that survive on this gives enough credit for it because you
get attacked physically, you get attacked mentally, you get attacked morally, you know,
it'll attack financially. You know, it just takes your spirit away, man, and you don't even
notice it. Until you see yourself doing things. You look in the mirror one day, like "Who the
hell, you know, is looking back at me?" But for me, I think my blessing is the people that
raised me, you know what I mean? Because I was raised at a different time in a different
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place. And their moral compass always stuck with me in the darkest nights. And I'm
grateful for the people that raised me, even though at the time they were doing it I was
kind of like, you know, "This is some bullshit." But as I'm on the outside of the journey, the
homeless journey, I know that's what got me through it. Because, for me, you know, I've
seen things that I know I could have done to make my journey a lot shorter. But there
would have been victim to that. And I didn't see putting my misery on someone else. As it
would have been. No one would have knew. I mean, I could have got away clean. But I
would have known. And I know that as I'm turning slightly at home on the housing side,
the race is lasted a lot longer than I would have liked it to. But I know along the way I
didn't compromise who I am so I'm proud of that. It's not easy, though, to be totally honest
with you.
I
Isaac Tadé 04:06
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. How did you first become homeless?
S
Sean Johnson 04:11
When I first became homeless, we had a house man, me and my daughter's mom. I met
her, we were 19 in St. Paul, like 1000 years ago. Anyway, she got a job with the city of
Minneapolis, we were in Saint Paul, and at the time Sharon Sayles Belton was the mayor.
And you had to live in a city to work for the city. So we bought a house in the south. We
have a kid who's like 35 or so. You know, and those were the old days, she got a little older
and we decided to sell the house. And my whole thing with that was you take all the
proceeds from the house, cause I had 4500 in the bank. And I'm gonna just take that, you
make sure Kari (daughter) is okay, and I'll be fine. And then I get to the bank and my
money was gone. And I was like, "you kidding me?" And to this day I don't know who I paid
off. You know, but I was healthy and I didn't think it would be a big deal. I thought I'd just
go to a shelter for a little bit, you know, and get back on my feet and that was three years
ago. But what I didn't realize was the criminalization of being homeless. I know that what
they'll do is give you this little misdemeanor citation for just being somewhere, or
offending this cop, it's just just stupid. And it sounds like a petty misdemeanor. If you didn't
grew up in a system that just sound like, "what's that what's the worst could happen?" But
what the evil in that is the cop that gives you that petty misdemeanor, he knows that you
can't get a job for two years. When I got that thing, I had no clue that that meant my legs
were taken from me, because that's really what happened. Because I could go get a job,
but I couldn't get a job to keep me from coming back to the shelter at night. Now at any
moment, right now I can call Linda, my daughter's mom. But the deal was you take and
makesure Kari's straight, which she did, and she still is doing. But I kept my word on that.
And I could have called her soon the money was gone. You know what I'm saying? And
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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kept on keeping on, but my word actually meant something then and still means
something now. And even as she has helped me out along the way, and she woudl help me
now if I asked her to, but I choose not to. Because the deal was you take Kari. And we're
still friends don't get me wrong? We'll always be friends, I'll always love her, we just not
together no more. So that's how it pretty much started. And another thing, the staff at
these places, oh my God. I get the human factor. Because you're dealing with people that
aren't there mentally, human tumors deal with humans, right? And you get burnt out. Once
you get burned out, you should step away. Because they start doing things to people that
at the time, it don't seem like a big deal. But the time you spent in this journey adds to it,
like throwing away your belongings, you know. In those belongings is your IDs, you can't
even get the shitty job without your ID. So now you gotta go, you see what I'm saying? And
all those little things that don't seem like much go from what I thought was gonna be,
maybe I get me 2 or 3 checks. It went from that, to three years later, I'm sitting across from
Isaac, telling him, you know, what the hell just happened, you know, saying? But as I said
here, you know, it does not put enough emphasis on once you get out to stay out. They'd
like you to stay in the system. Everything is about revolving around in the system. You
know, it's every time I had a job, I had to try and make it first shift because anytime after
that you lose your bed. So I couldn't get a job where I didn't need the bed. But in order to
get a job to just be able to eat and just to survive, you lose your bed. Because it's set up for
you to just lay round all day, and then go get to bed at 5:00. By 5:30 the bed is gone. So
now you worked all day they're gonna be out all night. Just it just a lesson in learning, I
think.
I
Isaac Tadé 08:23
Thank you for sharing that that's really in depth perspective. From your experiences from
what you've seen. What do you see as the main causes of homelessness or housing
insecurity?
S
Sean Johnson 08:40
I know that there's a ton of great people trying to do good work. However, too many times
people come to the problem with a solution. And they don't really know it. They looking at
the problem through the lens of their eyes from the lens of their experience, and what they
would do to make that better if it were them. However, is not. And from looking at it
through my lens, I run into that all the time. And then once tell them what's really going
on, they get offended. "How could this not be the right answer? Because, I went to Yale
and at Yale, they say that if this happens, that happens!" But this ain't Yale. This Hennepin
and Franklin, you know what I'm saying? This is Yale, but a different kind of Yale. You see
what I'm saying? And so your degree at Yale ain't really got nothing to do with how the
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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hell you feed your guy. As a human being, as a man, as a black man. I can only talk about
it from these eyes. As a right as a black man, you're hungry. You know that theirs food
over there. You just saw people run off with the food, but your moral compass tell you that
that's not the right thing to do. But your stomach tells you, "look at here dude, who's really
going to know?" But that goes back to running the race and getting the true reward at the
end, as opposed to getting to the end, and it's really not the end because you ran the
race so shady. You see what I'm saying? And you think this was your reward when it really
was that. So now that I'm coming at the end of it, I can't unsee the things I've seen;
humans doing just inhumane things. And I'm not jumping up and down or anything like
that, but I can honestly, honestly, even if no one ever knew, look in the mirror and say I
have never ever screwed over, you see what I'm saying? And that cost me time. There were
situations where yeah, it would have been it made my day a whole lot easier. And there's
people out there who don't even konw you screwed them over. And that's another sad
thing. They shouldn't be around people that think it's okay. One example, right? You had
this woman. Now she's amongst her friends. She's talking right? Every dollar she own fell
out of her thing, and she's talking and the money's on the floor. Her friends was like sharks,
and I'm sitting back, checking it out. They were like sharks, waiting on her to leave her
money. I'm like, "Lady you dropped your money." She didn't hear me, she wants to walk off.
They was really getting ready, I'm like "Lady! You know, you dropped your money." So you
get it from from the outside. But you also get it from the inside too. You know what I'm
saying? And the people that are surviving man, they don't get enough credit for some
survivalist degrees. It's insane. It really is. You know, I forgot what the question was. But we
got around to it!
I
Isaac Tadé 11:56
The question was about what do you see as the main causes of homelessness?
S
Sean Johnson 12:00
The main cause? I would say it's personal. I think drugs, mental, alcohol. And especially
mental, because when you're not mentally rooted, like spiritually rooted or stable... and
you hear all the time that you ain't worth anything, it's easy to believe that. You know
what I'm saying? And it brought your whole day. That's what you're getting out of it. I
always ask people, I say, "Close your eyes, and picture what you think homelesses is." You
know, and that's part of the problem there. Because what you see that's one thing. There
are like a million different ways to get into being homeless. But the way they got the
system up, there's just one way to get out. How can there be a million ways in, but one way
out? So you got all these people fighting for what they thinking is their good day, but my
good day, and your good day is two different good days. Like, your apartment that
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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making you just tickled pink and mine that made me tickled pink is two different things.
You see what I'm saying? But they got everybody in there fighting for the same thing. And
so it's like crabs in a barrel, kind of. In Minnesota, I will say that there's tons of good
people, and there are opportunities and avenues to get out. But, but I think to be totally
honest with you, just humans doing inhumane things. But the biggest ones is drugs,
alcohol and mental, you know, people that should that deserve better representation.
Let's put it like. And then, just people being honest about what their weaknesses are. You
know, probably shouldn't be drinking that if you're gonna drink that one, and we're going
to find you. You know what I'm saying? But those are the big three.
I
Isaac Tadé 13:57
It sounds like there are not systems in place to help people deal with the problems that
they have. And so they turned to drugs, alcohol, and other means, right? Which, in turn,
makes things worse, and will probably, in some cases, give them some sort of mental
illness.
S
Sean Johnson 14:18
Yes! There's a guy. I'm glad you said that. There's a guy, to get housing. Now, this is insane.
To get to the top of the housing list, he had to go to his "method-dome" thing. Which is
the quickest way to get him in the housing. He wasn't even on drugs, but after going
through the method-done thing, now he's on heroin. He's had to heroin now. But he had to
do that, that's the only way he can get on the list for housing. So now they really got him,
you know what I mean? It's like, that's insane. But at the time, the best way to quickly get
to help was go to the methadome thing. And for somebody that never even, smoked
weed. But if you see him right now, he's strung out on fucking heroin. And now that was
because he was trying to get into the housing quick. You know what I'm saying? So that's
the system. I mean, and of course, he lost the house. And not only lost the house he got an
open mark on his back now, that wasn't there at the beginning of the thing. And with the
whole drug, it's so much more easy, because that's right here, right here. And you got to
get through that, to get to where you really should be going. It takes a little bit. It really
does. It takes a little bit to get through, to stay focused. It really does. And it is sad to see,
see the light go out of people's eyes. You know, that's a tough one for me. I can't speak for
everybody, some people see it and be like, "Oh, this opportunity for me." You know what I
mean? Right now, that's insane to me, is just like with the tags. But you know, you see to
that.
I
Isaac Tadé 16:01
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
What stories or what experiences from your time being homeless have most changed your
perspective?
S
Sean Johnson 16:10
The girl at the train, you know, and I never get into the domestic. That's just one thing you
don't do. You learn that early. Like, it's the craziest shit you could do is get get in the
middle of a domestic, right? But it was...
I
Isaac Tadé 16:21
Could you tell that story?
S
Sean Johnson 16:22
Yeah I'm finna do it now. I never do that, but it was something about this dude, that was so
despicable. And I chose that word because I don't want no bleeps. But that's just it, I was
like, I said, "Why are you with this dude, right?" Because I thought I knew! She's gonna need
me to come here, I'm gonna slap him a little and throw him off the train. And then she'd
go, you know? That's me thinking I know what's best for her. But I didn't have enough to
ask her. And what she said was, "It's better to be raped by one dude as opposed to 12."
And then I looked there, she was a tiny little thing. I mean, dude, she couldn't have been
you know? She's Kate's size. But Kate's bigger in height. But after that day, I never ever
assumed anything. You know, cause I never saw that one coming in. That's her best
choice. And that's not a choice, this is America, man. And I'm not talking about something
that happened in the Kentucky Appalachians or you know what I'm saying? This was on
the train come from St. Paul. to Minneapolis. You know, that's the best choice, in America.
I mean, come on, man. What I learned from that was not to assume I know anything. It
was so humbling dude, cause I got sisters, I got a daughter, Mom. You're looking at this
girl. And it's like, wow, you know, that's her best? Talk about best day. Picture that is your
best day just to get raped once, as opposed to 12? How about not at all? You know, how
about just chilling it? But you see it, that whole thing about dreaming. I want to make sure
this get in there. Because I heard the brother, the South African brother, on the Daily Show.
He said this. I want to give him his credit. Because when he said it, I was like, "Dink!". It was
about dreams because somebody said, I forgot who he was talking to. And he said,
"People should you know, live and try to get to their dreams." And he said, "Say well, you
know, I used to think that until I realized, let's just say that all I know is this eight blocks. I
don't know to dream outside that eight blocks. I don't even know if it's possible." So the
thing is to get people to dream beyond their dreams. Because if all I know is this, I just
know to dream about that. And in my life growing up in Louisiana, that's why I love my
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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parents, my parents, my grandparents, my aunts, everybody who has something to do
with making me who I am today, the dude that's sitting across from Isaac. I'm so happy for
that because it gave me enough to understand that and I am somebody, fuck what they
say, I'm sorry about that. I deserve to live a bountiful life. And that's what tipped me off
about the thing that just happened. There's a $58,000 job. Right? And now, he didn't tell
us about that one until it was over. But now there's a $10 job. "I really want y'all to have
that." Why can't you really want me to be an American? To have something more. Yeah,
like would you want it? Cause come on, man.
I
Isaac Tadé 19:55
And who was it that offered this job?
S
Sean Johnson 19:57
The dude over there, I'm gonna say Joe. He came to speak at the Street Voices meeting.
I
Isaac Tadé 20:07
Okay.
S
Sean Johnson 20:07
He worked for the system now, you might as well say. And what I was telling him was, you
know, why are we talking about this job if it's done? You know, I already have a 10 dollar
job so that's gonna keep me where I'm at. I'm just treading tires, you know? But um, but
there are good people out there, man. I ramble a lot too, so. Next!
I
Isaac Tadé 20:35
Next! No, you bring in a lot of really good perspective. You talked about the South African,
that's Trevor Noah, right?
S
Sean Johnson 20:40
Yes! The dream thing, that's huge. Yes. But one more thing. Cause for me, Sean Johnson,
Kari's dad, that's another thing she's changed, she saved my life. Cause it's easier for me
to let Pookie think he's a man in this tiny situation that just went down at the, let's just say,
over there or at the park or at the shelter or anywhere. I'm gonna let him be big now.
Because if I deal with him, I can't be there to protect my daughter. You see what I'm
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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saying? So you go head on and say what you think. Anything short of getting in the no fly
zone, you okay with me. You're not okay, but you see what I'm saying? Yeah, you have to
let shit slide, because if I get on this here dude? I look at him as consequences. And I had
this little guy, buddy, I kid you not, he thought he was a Rottweiler. So every day, that's my
go to. When somebody got me in a place that I know that if I deal with this, I'm gonna
have consequences. The first thing I heard is buddy. I look at him and I just see buddy.
That makes it easier for me to stay focus on my big picture, which is protecting my baby
girl. You know what I'm saying? I ain't got to be doing no time just because he needs to
feel big about saying whatever he needs to say about me, that ain't true anyway. And
another thing, once you've been shot at a few times, words lose. Like, put the gun down.
You can say what you want. Why we gotta leave markers all the God damn time? You
know, call me what you want, but put the gun down. But anyway, yeah I wanted to get
that in there.
I
Isaac Tadé 22:35
Yeah, it sounds like something one of my professors told me one time he said that, you
know, there's a million things in the world that could rub you the wrong way. You can
choose the ones that actually get you.
S
Sean Johnson 22:49
Yes. Choices. I've been reading, and not only reading, but not in the journey, I want to be
able to enjoy my time. Physically. That's the whole damn thing, man. And so I'm doing this.
The brain I'm up there now, like I was just telling you about the Tenzy guy . And he got me
reading books and like I said, eating things. But the thing about that though, is I'm gonna
tell my niece and nephew. You see what I'm saying? Cause no one told me. Now I'm not
putting that against my parents. They did the best they could where they were at. You
know what I'm saying? But now that I know better, they gonna know about this. You know
what I'm saying, there are things that I found out like yesterday. What's the date?
Thursday? Like Tuesday, I wish I had known years ago. You know what I'm saying? But I
can't, "Oh, woe is me about those changes." I got to think about today and moving
forward and making it better for the ones that I know will be benefiting from that. In that
whole family thing you mentioned earlier. I can remember I hated White people, when I
met my daughter's mom. I opened up the door, I see these two white girls. I don't even like
white people I said I'm going to shut the door, she stuck her foot out there and she didn't
know she had me right there. I'm like this bitch is something! But that's how we met. And I
meant that. But as I sit here today my family, as you mentioned, is these people at the at
the shelter. Is the girl, the White girl, that was outside of target eating soup with her hands
and shit. The police over here cause they on every corner now. You know, they looking at
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the girl they don't do anything and then you know you got her compadres, they looking at
her as a victim cause she's still kind look okay. She was probably kind of hot back in the
day, if you know what I'm saying. So she kind of look okay, but the girl obviously got a
problem. Noone's helping her, you know, and it's like, come on man, this girl need help. But
I saw her. And I do a bike taxi. I'm going to tell one story and then we're going to move on.
I do the bike taxi, right? This the same girl. On the bike taxi, she had been trying to
approach me and I can tell. I didn't want to approach her because the way the dudes do
her, you know, she deserves better. So she finally came up to me, right? And so she just
knew she was gonna have to perform some kind of way. She was going to use her body.
I'm trying to tell her I just want to give her a ride. And she trying to figure out how she
gonna pay but it. You ain't got to pay for that! I take her for a little ride, she's having fun,
dah dah dah, and I bring her back right? And now she really thinks she got to pay. So now
she tried to set up how she could pay me later, right? So what I did was, I gave her $5 right
? Now she's all fucked up, cause not only is she not paying, I just gave her $5 right? And I
said just go get yourself something. I say that to say this, I hadn't seen her for quite some
time and the whole pandemic, and you hear all this crazy shit. And I'm wondering if she's
okay. And I was walking, it's been about a month now. I was walking down on Nicolette
and I see her. Now she got her hair all over her face, she's you know, she's not looking
great. She's doing. And I'm looking at her and walking slow because I want to make eye
contact, and I'm happy I see her! But I don't know where she's at, or I can't approach it. I
don't know how that's gonna go.
I
Isaac Tadé 26:35
Where her mental space is at.
S
Sean Johnson 26:37
Exactly. I'm respecting her. But I want her to know, I'm hoping she looks up, and she looks
through the glass. And she sees me. And I smiled at her, you know, not nothing, "Hey, how
you doing?" kind of thing. And she smiled. You know what I'm saying it's the little shit. I
don't know this girl. You know what I mean? But but she's human. She's somebody's
daughter. You know, I don't know her story. But I know she deserves whatever her good
day is, she deserves. And it seems like something like that happens all the time. I just
jokingly say that I wish I didn't have a conscious. Because you know, I could go ahead and
bust a couple heads, you know? Cause I'm straight!
I
Isaac Tadé 27:25
Cause sometimes you feel as though you need to do whatever you need to survive.
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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S
Sean Johnson 27:30
Yes.
I
Isaac Tadé 27:30
But your conscience tells you that there might be consequences or that, you know, you will
be hurting other people if you do those things.
S
Sean Johnson 27:40
Yes.Yes.
I
Isaac Tadé 27:40
So then you're not selfish.
S
Sean Johnson 27:42
Yes.
I
Isaac Tadé 27:43
Right.
S
Sean Johnson 27:43
And the thing is though, you see it being done by cowards. But anyway, you don't want to
judge but you gotta decifer because, you didn't do it if you're in crime, it's gonna happen
to you. So I'm not judging you. But I can't be no idiot. You are who you are dude, I gotta
respect that. But who you proclaim to be I gotta respect where you're at. Anyway, you
know that was one of those stories, man. And I feel good about that, though, you know,
and then she went on with the day, it went to get better. You know, I'm trying to find a
way to help the girl, because there's a ton of them out there. The thing that gets me the
most with the homeless thing is the people that can't defend themselves. They don't even
know they're getting screwed over.
I
Isaac Tadé 28:28
Women and children?
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S
Sean Johnson 28:30
Handicap, any mental or physical. Yeah. You know, and the cowards that take advantage
of them? Oh my God, they should separate them, dude. She shouldn't be by him. Yeah, she
shouldn't be by her. You know what I'm saying, it's insane. But then they say, "Well, we're
just putting them in a place." Well, they're not out in the cold, but she probably better out
in the cold than with the shit that's going on in there. It's one thing to take the soul away.
That goes back to seeing that light go out of their eyes. That's a horrible thing, dude. And,
yeah, so it's a ton of that. And it's not a hard fix. Just separate them and put somebody in
there to, you know? But I've been reading a lot, and them Ted Talks. I've been trying to, I
want the whole damn thing. And but not only do I want it for me, I want it for my family,
that's that girl. It's even the dude that was getting the damn tags. You know, he in there
too. That's that crazy ass uncle that at the end of the barbecue, everybody want to kick
you his ass. You know what I'm saying? But he's still...
I
Isaac Tadé 29:43
He's somebody's uncle.
S
Sean Johnson 29:44
Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And see people don't get that. That just rolled off of you. But that
ain't something you get at school. You know what I'm saying? So when you come at me
with, "You gotta have a bachelors to..." That whole shit that got me out of a job, they
paying somebody to be me. But you gonna bribe me with ten dollars?
I
Isaac Tadé 30:08
Right.
S
Sean Johnson 30:09
And they tell me to trust you. But anyway. And that dentist thing. Dude! That's huge.
People ain't got no teeth.
I
Isaac Tadé 30:22
That was gonna be one of my next questions, so that's a smooth transition. I was gonna
ask you! People ain't got no teeth, man. So what, has been your experience? What is, you
know, I'm trying to be a dentist. What are some of the things that you've seen, some of the
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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problems that can be addressed by dentists on the streets. What has been your
experience with homelessness and like dental health?
S
Sean Johnson 31:04
See the thing with like dental health, like all of the things. See dental health shouldn't be
like, an extra special thing. Having teeth, you know, being able to see, the basic things
shouldn't be like extra curricular shit, you know what I mean? And so people don't have
time to think about that. Let's just say for me as an example. I gotta get to a dentist. I got
three problems in my mouth that I know I got, I need to get to a dentist, right? Definitely,
absolutely no teeth. But if your struggle is to get something to eat, I can't work if it's a
green leafy. I just got to get something in my stomach. So I ain't got time to worry about it,
this tooth.
I
Isaac Tadé 31:51
There's a hierarchy of needs.
S
Sean Johnson 31:52
Yes! Priorities. Or like what I'm trying to say is, when you're struggling like that, you have
to remember everybody's basement and cheiling is different. You know what I'm saying?
So, the teeth thing. For me, that's huge. I can remember when I was young, and I would get
into fights. That's my first thought I gotta get to him before he knock one of my teeth out!
But people don't even have time to think about that. Because if you're getting raped, 12
times... I had a girl. Now dude, I'm not bragging, I'm just telling her story. I met her. This is
how she introduced herself to me, right? She didn't tell her name. She says, "I don't have
molars, and I don't have a gag reflex."
I
Isaac Tadé 32:56
I know where you're going with this. What was her story?
S
Sean Johnson 32:57
Like what do you say to that? But then, and I'm like, what's your name? But her story. Oh,
my God. Her story was, she was gang raped. When she was like 13 in one of the cities,
North. Not in the city, but in one of them towns, but whatever. And no one believed her.
And that was her deal. You know, and then so she was all fucked up. No one believed her
even, her family. So she ended up coming down here. She got hooked up with Mexico
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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dude, she ended living five year down in Guatemala, or somewhere down in Mexico.
When I met her I thought she was a Mexican. But she's actually native.
I
Isaac Tadé 33:57
Okay.
S
Sean Johnson 33:58
She was actually native, right? Cause I met her with a crazy dude. No, it was just one of
those nights with this insane dude, remind me to tell you about him. So he goes to this
place, right? Young, white girl. Now she's got the bachelor's degree from the University of
Minnesota, big old thing on the wall, but she's smoking and so dude goes in there right?
I
Isaac Tadé 34:19
Smoking what?
S
Sean Johnson 34:21
I want to say meth. But everything's in there. Math, crack, if you name it is in there. Right?
And so dude goes in there. As I'm walking in, the girl, this is the first time we ever saw
eachother. She says some Spanish. She's knows her dude is a fucking animal. When I say
animal. Yeah, he's an animal.
I
Isaac Tadé 34:38
The guy that she was with.
S
Sean Johnson 34:40
No, the guy that I was with.
I
Isaac Tadé 34:41
Oh
S
Sean Johnson 34:41
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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That guy I came in with. They take me to his friend's house. They don't want him there.
Until now that they hooked, not they good. But anyway. So the next time I saw her that's
when she did that, like the gag reflex, thing and I'm thinking, "I'm okay."
I
Isaac Tadé 35:00
I'm straight!
S
Sean Johnson 35:03
I'm good, so now we're talking right? And noone had ever done that. Yet, but that's when I
heard the story. That just was horrible man. And she had a son, I want to say, from it. That
was another thing. Yes! Her son was from it, so everytime she's looking at him...That is a
horrible story, though. That's why you guys can't judge people, man. And she was smart
too. Once she talked to you gotta, once you broke through and talked she was smarter
than shit, you know. But her story was just crazy. And she had a chip in her. She was being
sold. Yes. She was being sold. They knew where she was at 24 seven. That's not no
conspiracy, she showed the shit to me, right up under her skin. So she talking about
trafficking. Oh, yeah. She was that, you know. It was just horrible. I still didn't get her name,
you know? But yes, that was bad. But the dude he raped this girl. This woman. Right? His
story is, he went to the penitentiary. And he was the one that was planting her here. He
didn't actually didn't have a good time in penitentiary. You know what I'm saying? Yeah,
and it fucked his head up. So out here, he just burned up, because the things he do to
women is just... And then once I realized who he, you know, who he kept reminding me of?
Do you remember Derrick Sharper? The Green Bay Packers guy?
I
Isaac Tadé 37:09
Yeah.
S
Sean Johnson 37:10
Yeah, he was kind of like that. You'd never think that Derrick Sharper was running around
raping and all that. You know, he just didn't fit the profile. But once you got to know
him...No way, there's nothing this dude won't do. But it was because of what had
happened to him in a penitentiary. And he actually got charged with a rape. And I just
saw him, this past summer. He had been back to the penitentiary. So he kind of got his.
But yeah, I don't know what happened. The last time I saw her, she was sitting up on Park
right off of Park and about 24. But yeah, there is just so many stories like that. And he's just
sad...But it's just that kind of severity. Like I say the women, the kids, the mentally and
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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physically. And it's got this one dude. I don't know his deal. But he's in a wheelchair, he's
probably up there right now on Hennepin. He sits in his chair all the time, and he gets
money from somewhere. Whatever, his deal is, a check will come. And his friends man,
they just feed this dude crack. But he can't move, they hold it. He can't even, nothing's
working. You know? And I'm like, dude, those aren't your friend. He had to dude laying in
the snow, in his vomit. And I'm like, I tried to give him a glove, I don't know, these guys, it's
some Somali dudes. And they laugh and I'm like, dude, these are not your friends. Cause I
don't even know you. And you're laying in vomit. Yeah, ain't got no shoes on. Got no
gloves on. I gave him the gloves. But they like, "Just let him stay there", I'm like come on,
man. You just can't. So I gave him the glove. And I told you these are not your friends. I
don't give a fuck what they said. It was cold as shit.
I
Isaac Tadé 39:22
I guess to return back to the question. What advice would you give me as a future dentist,
right? That I can best serve people who have experienced homelessness. What advice
would you give to me?
S
Sean Johnson 39:40
To you? You know, first of all understand that it's a need. Oh my god, dude, it's insane. And
I'm talking about, I think we had to come up with a way to to learn. To a lot of people like I
said, that ain't even a thought. Dude you aint about 20 some years old, but you got the
meth thing. That'll mess the teeth up. And then you just got the average Joe, you know,
they they take care of their teeth. And I couldn't go to dentist till I was 21, but I brush my
teeth. You know what I'm saying? But I actually went to a dentist at 21 years old. I did a
good enough jobs and I know that I should be going to a dentist. But it's not on their list.
It's just not, because when this dude got mad, he got mad at me. We ordered a sandwich
together and I ate mine. He got mad, I'm like dude, I got teeth. You don't have no teeth,
that's why it's taking you longer! But you know, the thing is, figure out a way to let them
know they deserve to have teeth. See that's the thing. They just so happy, that's not a
luxury. It's okay to have teeth! It's okay to want to smile. No, it's okay. The natural things
that teeth do, they don't think about them, like a nice smile. You can actually eat your
food!
I
Isaac Tadé 41:14
Or even speak!
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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S
Sean Johnson 41:15
Yeah, yes. Without spitting on you. But it's those little things. I mean, you have to come at
them in a way to where they don't feel less than. Cause they get enough of that.You know
what I'm saying?
I
Isaac Tadé 41:27
Don't come at people in a way. That's like condescending.
S
Sean Johnson 41:31
Yes.
I
Isaac Tadé 41:32
Or, to put myself in a position above you.
S
Sean Johnson 41:35
Yes. And see that happens. And then they shut down.
I
Isaac Tadé 41:39
Yeah
S
Sean Johnson 41:39
That's what happens.
I
Isaac Tadé 41:40
And then they won't ever see a dentist again.
S
Sean Johnson 41:42
No, because they looking for a reason to not see you. They come into it not wanting to
like you. Then once you give them that one, well you just, you just validated what I know to
be true, even though I have no research on it at all. And it's the best thing that could have
happened to me. And people don't realize how big certain little things are. And the timing
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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of it. You can say the smallest thing to the wrong person at the wrong time...and that's
(Hurricane) Katrina. People don't realize that. And I've seen that. Yeah. People don't realize
the power words. For me that's just like with when I first met Kate. I didn't trust Kate. And
she'll tell you that. She just straight up. It took her like...
I
Isaac Tadé 42:36
A couple years, right?
S
Sean Johnson 42:37
She'll say that's right. But it was some time because by the time I met Kate, I had been in it
for like two years. And I just got tired of people. Because they had a badge on. And then
went to school, doing whatever they do for shits and giggles, and to feel good about
themselves. This whole, shit, right? But they treat me like shit. And, "you should just be
happy that they're there. I'm gonna treat you like shit. But you ain't shit anyway. So you
should be happy that I ain't treat you like worse shit." You see what I'm saying? So I assume
that that's where they're coming from.
I
Isaac Tadé 43:11
From your prior experience.
S
Sean Johnson 43:12
Yes, but I don't stay there. I don't treat them that way. But what I do is I give them a
chance to prove that they're not that. I don't just go into it to think just cause you got that
little thing on, that you're a good person. Now once you prove you a good person, we
could you know, because I've been out I've been I didn't get been woken up. Alvarez say,
Steven. Do cussing me out. It's during the morning. He cussing me out calling me ali ne
and I asked him I'm like, Man, you know, why you cussing me? Yeah. Did you look beyond
what you go do about it? Dude, it's minus 20 degrees outside. You know what's really
going on here, man. But I'm thinking I ain't saying anything. Because, you know, I know
what's going on. But But can I go to sleep now? Oh, you ain't gonna do what you're gonna
do. You know, be outside. I could go to sleep or be ready to just be inside or outside. You
know? So there's no real choice here to go ahead and finish call me what you don't call
me. Tomorrow. Makai passenger shall do nothing. But I'm gonna call you Pachamama do
my part because guess what you should do and do wake up in the morning trying to get
you kicked out. And he's getting paid to be there. But, but it's just it's like a like I say that's
why they should get more credit for survivalists day because you get hit from our Lord.
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And then you hit yourself. You know what I'm saying? You hit the gym knocked out
yourself and see, that's another thing. And the biggest thing man is is getting people to
actually look in the mirror. The old Michael Jackson thing, the dude in the mirror,
I
Isaac Tadé 44:48
the man in the mirror
S
Sean Johnson 44:48
you know, too many people don't want to look at him, that's why you're up in my mirror.
You see what I'm saying? You know, if you will be in yoga, you'd be so busy, you won't even
notice. You know what I'm saying? I got so much hate in this mirror, that I ain't got time for
that. You know, and, and there are people waiting on me to get this shit, right.
I
Isaac Tadé 45:19
Your people who depend on you?
S
Sean Johnson 45:21
Yes. And that's another thing they they don't see homeless people thinking or having any
value. Like, another story, over at Higher Ground in St. Paul. I'm working and making like
150 to 200 a day. So I'm getting about this. I come to these checks and I'm good. And so
they saw me stacking the locker, dude I'm getting ready to make a move. I got it all. And
something went down. And they fixing kick me out, I say cool. I got one question. What
about my stuff in my locker? Cause I had to go to work that day. It's 5:30 in the morning,
right? I have no problem not coming back here. But do I need to take my stuff to work
with me? Or is it gonna be okay? They say I got 36 hours, right? So I leave. And then I come
over here to St. Paul and Kate, another Kate, hooks me up at St. Stephen's right. So I call
them from the library downtown. So it's like 5:30 that same day. "Well, this is Seann
coming to get my stuff." They put me on hold. I knew something was wrong right there.
They stolen all of it. They told me they threw it away. I'm like, "Well what garbage can did
you throw it in?" Because I knew the garbage didn't run that day. I knew that garbage
didn't run. So I can just go get it. They say, "Oh, no, you can't do that." "What do you mean
I can't do it. You threw it out. It was in the garbage. I go get mine." But they stole my stuff
and in stealing my stuff...See they were stealing the jeans, the clipper all that stuff, but
they threw away my pictures. The picture of my dad when he was still healthy, vibrant.
Yeah. And me I was 23 in that picture, in the backyard that I grew up in. That picture told
like 100 years of my childhood, and see that was a legacy pitcture for Kari. Because by the
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time Kari came around, my dad had dementia. I wished she could see him... You know, you
know what I mean?
I
Isaac Tadé 47:17
In that family barbecue picture.
S
Sean Johnson 47:19
Yes. Yeah. But you know, they have all those, fryers now?
I
Isaac Tadé 47:25
Air fryers?
S
Sean Johnson 47:26
Yes. My dad had a beer keg. Cut off, with a torch under it.
I
Isaac Tadé 47:35
He made his own.
S
Sean Johnson 47:36
With a clothes hanger, yes! That was in that picture. You know what I'm saying? And they
just threw my shit away, man. I had a passport in there to travel. And I had two empty
pages. And I just wanted so much to fill that damn thing. They do that in the clothes and
all that stuff. That I mean, I'm saying I was pissed about that. But it wasn't but it could be
replaced. That pictures gone.
I
Isaac Tadé 48:02
those pictures can't be replaced.
S
Sean Johnson 48:04
You know, what I'm saying? And then she is telling me this, Mr. Johnson we can't do
anything. You know? And then you flip it because I already know what was in there, you
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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know what I'm saying? But they just feel like you just don't have anything of value and
you're not a value. And whatever happens happens, you know, shake it off and keep you
I
Isaac Tadé 48:27
so going. Yeah, going in to a healthcare profession. Being mindful of First of all, what
words I use, how I approach people to not be condescending, and being respectful of their
things, their appearances, their journey.
S
Sean Johnson 48:47
Yes, just because you see, I see Isaac at whatever age you are right now. I don't know what
it took for you to get there. You know what, I don't know what happened to you last week
or you know what I'm saying? Or whatever you use that you don't say it or you know it
could have been great day it could have been some facility I don't know. But for me to
look at you now and assume that's the worst thing that happens with a Canadian
assuming you don't mean oh he gotta be this or he must be that or you know and all this
Oh shit. I don't have people like leave money out for me to take it so the guy you know
don't come home man. I mean it's just but the thing is if it be genuine with people cause
they see that fake shit you know they really get a greater Miss kudos or much less than a
mile away. But just be be open to know that they're human and in being human well and
invaluable man no big me's and little you and you know none of that. Just realize that
they're human. And there's a story ready when you really good at it. Can you get to the
story? You see what I'm saying? Cuz cuz if you if you shut him up at a beat, you never
really know what you did. You can sit there talk to him for an hour and not even know who
you talk. too, once you get beyond the way they are feeling they can talk to you talk for
five minutes. You know everything. You see what I'm saying? There's a big difference if you
want them to feel at ease and it just when they could just relax and not be on gold trust
you. Yes. Because if you don't God, I'll bet you, you know, you let you in here because you
don't do enough people hitting me. So if I can force a missile to keep you at arm's length
until I know you ain't gonna stab me in the back. And once you get back then do what you
want to do. You know? And so that's what she talked about. It might have seemed like, I
didn't need to make sure you have like acting crazy. We all do say you know me, but but it
will make them get to the store. To once you get to the story. That's the family. That's why
I say that's what my family brothers St. pontotoc to do. But my family I think girl, I mean,
she like a third cousin our you know what I mean? She only my family? Yeah, you know
what I'm saying? And even the uncle that we know, we got to get rid of. We gotta cut him
out for before Pyro round to go but he's still but you know, he's still family. And that's
tough sometimes. No, it really is when you hungry. He just told us your way. And you know
you better Yeah, you know, or you could take it from him. You know, but but you got to be
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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patient and stay within your roots. And hopefully you got good to see you don't blow you
over. You know what, it's a really incredible I woke and I had dude standing on me with a
knife. Yes. And the same dude. It was it was like it was so damn cold. I had a park around
and freezing my ass he dropped he up on the ramp by the Radisson in the Marriott right
there. Don't turn. Yes. And that bitch right there. I'm gonna do you want to get on this bus.
I got it. bus token we just get on the bus and warm up. Get into police pull up. This guy. We
got him. So I just take our wallet. Then I turn around, they sent him back on the bitch and
left him. Now that same dude, he's so drunk. I remember that. That same dude, like pretty
much later, I wake up he is over me with a knife. And I'm looking at grabbing right in a
pinup, you know, so I gotta grab him in the knife. And I pick him up to the front. The first
thing he asked me, What did I do? I was asleep. What about? What about I will sleep? in it.
There are good staff too, though. Don't get me wrong. And from my side of it. You I always
have whatever they do. I have to be true to me because I need this to work. You know, you
go home with your job. And you Oh, I had a bad day at work. But your bad day won't be
that good. Send me back six months, I need this to work not have been the guy. Let's just
say you got a you got a service that I really need to get to my next step right? to do
before me just cuss you out and spit on you? Know, I mix right? I still need you to be you
know what I'm saying? And I understand that's tough. You know, so I can't I can't expect
you to not have a little human in you right now. So I got to come in and get your laugh.
You know, man, can I still need what I need? But see people that ain't got their skill set. I
mean, I bet she just knew she just got spit on. You know what I mean? You gotta respect
the fact that she's human, or he or whatever. You know what I'm saying? And I get that,
because it can be challenging. Trust me, I get that. However, I need my knees. Oh, are you
okay? Do you know what I'm saying? But not everybody got this skill set. So they're going
to get knotted up. They didn't get what they need. And they're going to go go back. Now
they said back another six seven months is getting hit all kinds of ways. And if you ain't
got rules, he's gonna blow you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, somebody's standing in the gap. See
that's the thing. And what another thing that really pisses me off the people that's
supposed to be standing in the gap, just getting paid to stand in the gap. We're just there.
And they know what to say. And it's like, come on, man. Really? And that's another thing
that's that's just horrible when you said like the guy but he's a girl some shoes, right? She's,
she's, she's and she's while I'm doing the bike thing. I had a good friend Friend. I make
money. So so I'd be alone. Cuz my family, you know, and I see this girl. I see. I see you guys
we're about to laugh. And so I get her. As a matter of fact, I'm back. I'm taking it and
trying to get some shoes, right. And then I'm gonna let her in. And I know she's getting a
shoe. That's why she ain't got no damn shoes on, but had been so long. They knew me and
told them you know, so I went on at bought shoes. I was gonna spend 25 and she found
stuff for 20 And I guess he tried to give me the five bucks. And I'll just keep that, you know,
and, you know, I don't know that you're gonna do it, but you know, just just consider that,
you know, some you can do, let's stuff like that. I don't have any god damn money, but I
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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had enough to where, you know, I could be a blessing to her. You know, Sam because in
people with the money you're looking at it, you know, it's like come on man but
I
Isaac Tadé 55:24
it just humanizing experiences
S
Sean Johnson 55:27
all the time. Cuz they're human man. What gets me is the women that think that the lights
go you know and and they just think that their take took their their self worth knowing like
the girl that she didn't know she has to do this one time. I hate somebody gotta get paid
all kinds of shit on the bike right? And he's got this girl and I'm gonna give it to give it to
her. I forgot what it was, but I couldn't use it right? And I'm gonna give it to you better as I
turn like that, dude, I'm not exaggerating at all. As I turned to get you're gonna find it
right. And as I turn around, she's naked. And this is the sidewalk. She like two feet off the
sidewalk. Now, what are you doing? I don't know. You don't have to do anything. But first
of all, how did how did you get here?
I
Isaac Tadé 56:24
That's what I'm thinking.
S
Sean Johnson 56:27
But she just thought that no one could be nice to her. Without taking her whole goddamn
soul. In that sad man. Yes. Yeah. But I gave it to her.
I
Isaac Tadé 56:41
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Um, here's a big one. And of course, if you feel you
know, uncomfortable with any questions or whatever, go for it. Go for it. Um, I was just
gonna ask, what role does race and racism play in homelessness?
S
Sean Johnson 56:59
For me, as a black man, I think it's it's America. You know, so it's got to be worse. And the
darker you are, you know, say However, what I've noticed is, is less race than it is
economic. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, we don't get a little bit worse. But I still think
that the the women and the handicap, and the kids get the worst of everything. Cuz for
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me, even though I'm black, and you may not like me. Yes, sir. She's just not gonna do to
me. You know, I'm, that's not gonna happen. But there are people out there that they
came like to the girl getting ready to attend. They can't say no.
I
Isaac Tadé 57:48
You know what I mean? So and you don't think you'd be in that position? Because your
male?
S
Sean Johnson 57:52
Your hell yeah, I know. I'm not. I'm gonna go to the gym when I leave here. You don't say
they pick it. That's what a fucking coward. They pick and choose who they gonna be King
Kong around, you know, King Kong King Kong all the time. You know what I'm saying? So
why can't you be King Kong now? But you can be King Kong with her. I would love what
you don't say. Because King Kong I mean, romance. But you know, he gonna do what he
do
I
Isaac Tadé 58:23
Rght.
S
Sean Johnson 58:23
He didn't do it when when it's when it's beneficial. He can do it all the goddamn time. So
that's that's another thing, man is this. Is this bad, man? I don't know. But but the race
thing is America. So so but but with this, you know, is is more of a handicap and the
women and the kids. That's just me though.
I
Isaac Tadé 58:47
That's what you see.
S
Sean Johnson 58:47
Yeah. Good. Good. Good. Good. get worse. Okay. Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 58:52
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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Thank you. Um, how would you describe your spirituality?
S
Sean Johnson 58:56
saving me. You really is me because that's what I see. I know. I'm going to live an
abundant life. But in that, that service. You know what I'm saying? And that's because the
moment I was a mama was right here, not what she's writing right now. Boy, but the thing
is, though, like when I was young, she just dragged me to church. My dad didn't go if dad
didn't go, why did I have to go, that's a woman thing, you know, but I went to church,
kicking and screaming. But what happened is, when I was in there, he got into me. You
know what I'm saying? And I know that when I had that cancer piece, like my
grandmother when she was old, and she just beat up praying all the time, and I'm like, you
know, go home and pray. And so, you know, like I said, I go to church twice, twice on
Sundays. You know, because I know that but the grace of God, I am alive. You know what
I'm saying? Again, I've been times where I probably shouldn't have made it out of some of
the places. You know what I'm saying? And I, I believe in prayer. You know what I say? cuz
I've seen fruit from it. You know what I'm saying? So that's what keeps me not doing taking
the shirt, it keeps you grounded, because I understand how to race is really one. And I
understand that. And so when I see good people, I sponge off because even though I joke
about how my friend is super hot, which she is, she's so smart. But you know what I'm
saying because of her. You know, I eat different. I take care of my whole advocate when I
told her I said, Go I'm an illusion. You know, you're the real thing. I need to get the real
thing cuz cuz delusion go play out a little bit here. But for me, I want the real thing. And
that's what I see in you is man, she got eaten and you know, I'm sorry that right now cuz I
met her yesterday. But But you know, and, and Kates are good. But I'm around good
people like that. And they did. They went Thursday, Tuesday, I went over to turn over.
Northeast, right? I'm going for 10 minutes. I got to do. But when I get around good, people
just go to chopping it up. It is two hours later. But you know what I'm saying? Right? But
because of the pandemic, and when you round when I'm around good people, the time
just, you know, me. And I told her that I was coming in for 10 minutes, you know, and here
it is, you know, two hours later putting it on, I gotta go. You know, but it's just, I just like
being around people, especially when you just happen to see people getting through.
Especially when you hear all this deaf and this and that. Yeah, you just happen to see
people still around man and his family to me. You know, it really is. I don't say that. You
know, casually or any of that cuz that girl, man, that ain't gonna say that was the only
smile she had that day. But no, she got that one smile that day. You know what I mean?
And she deserve a smile, man. Come on, do this. Come on. But little things like that, you
know, and I cry too damn much, man. Picture me check this out. So me, right. And I'm at
the library and I'm looking at them and, you know, they look at me, you know, but I cry
that it has to do with my spirituality, my my grandmother and my, yes. You know, they see
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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me crying they like but I'm okay with that. Because I understand. In the long run, we
should cry. I mean, if you make you feel like crap, you know, you got to express yourself.
But but but for me talking about the brain and the heart and the body stress.
I
Isaac Tadé 1:02:58
All that?
S
Sean Johnson 1:02:58
Yeah. As he was was I realized I won't be able to enjoy my life, but I don't have one. I got it.
I got all that shit in there, dude in the mirror. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. If you've been
honest with him, you gotta let things go. And I had a cousin. Dude, he was in here for 10
years. I want to hurt is really, really, really bad. Because what he did is tell me just pray for
him every day. So let me pray for him. Everything's pretty good things for him every day.
Even if you don't mean it, do it every day. Then over time, it'll it'll become it'll become
natural. Yeah. And then one day, I was walking with a friend of mine, a family member of
mine. And he drove by. And I went over and we faked like we go first cousin flip on the
same plane again. Anyway, we did the whole Hey, how you doing a senior while Day bla
bla bla. And then he left and I left. And it wasn't until me and Cliff, I called me Hearld,
walked up another two blocks that I realized the whole lot. We was talking knocking him
out of dragging him out of the car never crossed my mind. You know what I mean? So it
works, you know? And so, we it took 10 years to get there. Okay, dude, I will lose sleep. I
will Oh, you know, you know, but she'd said that. And so, I tried. I understand. Philosophy
guy over St. Thomas says 10% things, you know, 10% things, you know, you don't know,
but it's 80% that you don't even know you don't know it. So I read it when he said that it
was and I thought I was you know 80% I don't even know I don't know. But once you look
at life like that, is easier. You know, I mean, to to get by and to let things go and to not
have to be right and, and to see misery in and call it what it is and if you can help be
helpful to me. But that's the whole spiritual piece but it is at 5:30 tonight. It's Thursday,
right? Yeah. Cuz I do that because it's good people there. And it's a spiritual fight. You
know what I mean? If you ain't got your ship straight they ain't playing games you know,
they whooping ass and taking name. So what you want to do so but that's what I do. I
cannot do what it takes to gas up my tank. So why would I go to this train is trying to
Super she's super hot but why would I go to her to get my body right in my brain a right
my teeth you know
I
Isaac Tadé 1:05:39
if your spirit a right?
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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S
Sean Johnson 1:05:40
yes. And then I can go to lay again see this girl that just made this just me you know just a
little little something different give her the joiner life you know me? But that's what it is
though. No, that's that's what we are. Oh, I see people forget that. Because we were made
for that. You know you ain't made to see these girls eating like that and see the Oh, that's
an opportunity to see and this guy gives me about to do to get the apartment. They know
these girls know what you're doing. And when I'm wanting to get one. So chill here Tinker
there. But for the price of being warm. Yeah, you take her soul. Let her stay cold. You know
what I mean? Leave the girl alone! No, man. I mean, come on. But to get there. And I do
do pieces, you know. You know but but then again, he somebody you know, but it
sometimes it gets tough for me to want to treat him right. You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, I'm gonna pray for you tomorrow, but for the day, I think I might want whoop you,
you know, you might need as well. Yeah, but but you see it all the time. Yeah, you can see
me walking around like balls, you know, like King Kong. Yeah, exactly. It's like, come on,
man. Too much of that. Yeah, that goes back to the women and kids you know me and
handicap? You know?
I
Isaac Tadé 1:07:01
Yeah. But you'd say your spirituality is centered around good people.
S
Sean Johnson 1:07:06
Yeah, okay, go worse group. I know God worst Kates an angel. She literally is the woman
I'm gonna go to the night. Oh, that was the one is two ladies and a brother. They're
angels. You know, they really are. And I know for me, God works through people. And to
some people, I'm an angel. You know, I try not to say things like that. Because I don't want
to come across you know, it's not about me. Yeah. Cuz this whole thing we do it. You
know, I'm gonna be okay. Trust me on it. However, I need to make sure that she at least
got a shot in case anybody's talking for her. You know, I mean, they really not. In any
nobody talks about a girl that's getting raped by one as opposed to 12 or the kid. Yeah,
and that's a whole nother You know, that's a whole nother level. You know what I mean?
But or the handicapped do that getting out as many when you get a fainted I like it. And I
look one time, it was all fucking 20s, I am like dude put your money in your pocket. You
know, here's what happens with me, right? When I'm walking down the street people
could just do and I'm not saying this to pat myself on the back. But there will be a dude
way across the way Hey, Shawn, this my friend. what he's doing is he's telling the people
around him if you fuck with me you know, so what? I'll do it I notice what he's doing. So I'll
go over it I you know, I let them know. Yeah, you know this, we like that. You know what I
am saying? So he has a piece? But he shouldn't have to do that. If you're a gorilla with
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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him. big gorilla with me. But he's not a gorilla just just about being any god damn gorilla.
But it's I get that a lot you know God walking with this lady. What does he like one old
lady that's one of the good and rely on some bullshit. She noticed that right? That's why
that's why you have to you know, yeah, cuz she's wasting of time. We need good people
that do a good day. Don't bullshit. I gotta wait, you know? Cuz she ain't got time for you to
figure out that she needs you to see her as human. She need people see what she is told.
You see, okay, they see me boom. Not Okay, maybe she did something that just you no, no
one could do anything to you know mean to deserve to be treated like that man. Or you
know, and sometimes you know, it's tough man but I could look in the mirror like I was
telling you earlier the day my phone rung and use that look at no matter No, no and that's
it but but but I don't know don't know mo so my phone like I just answer it. You know what
I'm saying? Could I know anybody like me? You know, and I don't know. You know me. But
it's a piece that come with it because like for the last quite a few years. You have New
Year's Eve. Everybody go around what you want some peace that's it? you can ask me
right now we're in a bar you got you know you got I want some with peace we could have
a good day we you know, but if he got no peace. That's how you do you just said you
wanted a big booty girl you know, but you got peace who knows what's around? Peace
man. Yeah, you know?
I
Isaac Tadé 1:10:42
That's, that's beautiful. Um, thank you for sharing that. How would you? How would you
say that the covid 19 pandemic has affected you.
S
Sean Johnson 1:10:53
It made me a better person.
I
Isaac Tadé 1:10:54
Really?
S
Sean Johnson 1:10:55
Dude, I haven't had a cold. I shouldn't say that. But it made me because of that, guess
what I'm reading best when I'm reading them two hours a night now. You know, I said,
That's why I do yoga as much as I do now. That's why, you know, I'm, I'm in tune to, I've
had time to look in the mirror. You know what I'm saying it and actually, what's what's
really going on here? Cuz this shit doesn't last forever? You know, says how do you really
want this game to play out? You know, but it also led me to see the inhumane more of the
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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humaneness of people to you know what I'm saying? And like I say, I took the virus shot.
Everything in me told me not to do that. You know what I'm saying? It really did cuz I don't
trust the system at all. I just don't I mean, rightfully so. Yeah. You know, and so but but like
I said, cuz I had the cancer. I don't know, like five nurses like Kate, I can name five, boom,
boom, boom, and they all say the same thing. You know, and, and they will when they
can, you know? And so on that note, why would I not? Why would I not listen to girl that's
got these things behind her name, and Tuskegee. I understand it went down, you know,
but because of slavery. I mean, I can't get a job today. I mean, we could live well, what
does that stop at? You know what I'm saying? At some point, you gotta, you know, and we
looked at the same thing, and just came up with a different conclusion, but I'm not selling
people on or not selling people on it. But for me, man, we gotta take you know, and so
and that's just the way that is, you know, but um, yes. It really is. Yeah. What was the
question?
I
Isaac Tadé 1:12:41
How's the covid 19 pandemic affected you?
S
Sean Johnson 1:12:45
Now, so I got I got to see a lot of good people. You know what I'm saying? I got a lot of
good people. I went in to get a cigarette, right. And I felt these things right here, right. And
wants to brother from the Black Panther die. Yeah, me checking everything. The actor
when he got with it, oh, yeah. Yeah. Chadwick Boseman, he when he died, I'm gonna go
get everything out. You know. And so as I'm doing that, I had this thing here where they
had to put it put the ultrasound jelly on. So I go down to hcmc and a girl, she just so she
does a jelly thing. And she's typing, you know, on the computer, and she's close to me is,
you know, and this was earlier with the viruses yet and I'm thinking, this girl put her life in
danger. You know what I mean? To see if I'm okay. And that that and I didn't realize that
until I was in that moment. That nurses and doctors, you know, it's one thing in that case,
just like with the homeless, you hear it, but to actually see it in there. And when it was over,
God jokingly said, well, you don't go into rob a bank or I'm going to Target but if you if I
got this, I'm gonna wrap my glove, you know? So you know, it never came because she she
didn't they didn't she took the results to the doctor, whatever she says she's coming back.
I say, Well, shit, am I robbing the bank or not? You know? And they say, Well, I can't tell you
that but you know if they look good from what I can tell you that's what I told him that
well, I just want to say that I appreciate what you do. You know what I'm saying? Imagine
that she knew danger of going to work every day. Yeah, she don't know me. You know any
of these people in in in the hallway waiting or whatever their waiting room? Yeah. You
know what I mean? But then she just you know, she just casually but then it then it made
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her day and, you know, our, but yeah, no one has ever said. But it's little, but it's the little
things that can make a person they or as I said earlier is a little bit that can actually
break. Yeah. So choose, I choose my words to be inspiring or helpful because even when
dude I could have said a whole bunch of things. I knew what he was doing, as he said that
robbing Kate, your robbing my friend. You know what I'm saying? But so I tell what I said
was I say dude has nothing, nothing to do with a tag. And if you hurt me was still in it Get
the hell out of him. Drag you and that's what I was saying there. Because you're robbing
my friend. And you're robbing my family that need that. You know, but but you have to be
politically but he did at least got but it but it was so full. We'll be here to Monday in a
regular way. I don't know if you got to laught. But I like that you do that dental thing? No.
Because even with me, cuz I saw the thing that got me my cousin had some shitty teeth.
And every time I saw him, I go brush my teeth, you know? But But people don't think about
them. And like I said, it's just one of those things that they So focus on just not getting
raped or getting kicked out of the crib in the morning. Just got down. Somebody had been
grinding since yesterday. So so the things that will make their quality of life better. like to
eat the burger or to not have to. But Dude, you walk around. Get that chip. Yeah. You see
that on people that? You're way too young? for that? Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
Right. But I can't judge because maybe the choices that you had to make and the choices
I had to make it you know, it's you know, Grand Canyon, as opposed to you know, that the
hill over there? You know, and that's why I don't I try not to judge. But you get to see it all.
You really do. So I was I did. But it was awful. So, you know, yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 1:17:16
You talked about this a little bit already. But like, what are you most proud of?
S
Sean Johnson 1:17:21
Me? That I am still I was able to as we sit here today, on the 18th I can honestly look
myself in the mirror and know that I didn't bring any extra undue harm to people. Why
don't you just go knock that out, too. Don't speak for me. You know, say this girl needs a
hug. Hug and to be left alone? To me, can you put it in a mouth or anywhere? I She needs
a fucking hug and to be left alone. You know? And so I can honestly say that. And as a
human, you know, I understand that I was open enough. And when it's open enough, I
mean, spiritually, mentally, socially, to see people as people as opposed to them that us
down less than, you know what I mean? That that has something so easy to do now. You
know, and like I say, My family has expanded, you know, so I'm most proud of the fact that
I'm kind of okay, with the way I'm still looking at people and see them as human and if I
can help them I do. And I can walk around town anywhere. And I'm okay. And if no matter
what it is, it's a good thing. You know what I mean? And I'm proud of that because some
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of them I just want them to trust All right, this dude now as I come into the house I see
three guns I say okay. I ain't have a gun. So if something go down. Now, he's a gang
member with these guys. Were in the game, right?
I
Isaac Tadé 1:19:15
When was this?
S
Sean Johnson 1:19:18
it's about seven months ago. Okay. And some go down. This is my hook and put his hands
on me. He grabbed grabbed my shirt. I get him off. I said are you fucking serious dude, but
I'm sorry three guns, right? Guess who got no gun. That would be me. So just leave. The
next day. I got my bike taxi right I roll the phone. Don't you ever think about putting your
hands on me again? He beat me up and I but he but he grabbed me in front of his boss. Is
he gonna do all this shit to me on the street. He was saying I'm thinking in my mind, you're
going to get the fuck out his house. The next day I roll up on him. And he looked up, he see
me now and I tend to dislike this. I say you had a lot of gusto last night, but if you ever
tried to shit again, we don't have a problem. Now, he didn't expect it. But I will say this
about him, though. He understood that this could go either way. But it ended up going the
right way. Because he respected the fact that I came at him like that. You see what I'm
saying? And and even after that, I don't I still you still out here. But I walked up on him
right. Now he didn't have a clue. He was sitting in a bus stop. You know, I'm still thinking
that I see too many people get hurt, just let it slide. And then I'm looking at it right. And
you don't have a clue. I'm here today. He don't have a clue. Now know what he was on
next time. But I'm standing there looking at anything. If I do this. Then the first day
popped into my mind was when I heard that just to my brother. You got 289 months?
Yeah. And that popped into my mind, as they didn't say worth, it's too easy. And I walked
off. And then I was about and we our paths crossed about three, four different times. And
then he came up to me with his boys in the daylight, right? He talking to shit. So what I did
was, I got ready to swipe. You know, oh, you just got to say you get into getting a no fly
zone. We don't see it. And he saw that. Then he you know, he pumped the brakes. And
then I saw him a few times. Now he's respectful. It was about a bottle a month of that.
Then I saw him one night. I say I say Dude, I'm glad you're a man. Because you wouldn't
shit would have went all kinds of bad bad. You know what I'm saying? And we shook
hands. You know what I mean? And we're good now. You know, but feet have been an
idiot. But that can't be too big. I'm not gonna be the victim do but if we got to be
respectful, that's one thing. But if one of us got to be a bitch, you got to put the high heels
on. Cuz I'm not. You see what I'm saying? So let's just stay respectful. Do you know what I
mean? You know, but but he got that. And so like I said, we good now. But it took that. You
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know what I mean? Can I give a big man a little, you no, everybody be men and go, but if
you're gonna make somebody be a bitch, I'm not putting on high heels. But you know
what I'm saying? Yeah, you have
I
Isaac Tadé 1:22:46
the awareness to get yourself out of situations that might get you in trouble. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. You know, and that's something to be proud of.
S
Sean Johnson 1:22:54
Oh, yeah. Like I say, there are no extra holes in me. That petty misdemeanor is the only
real thing I can he's killing me dude, it is I just found out they can't even started up until
the first of month to get it off. You know, but so I gotta go get a shitty job. You know me,
but but it is what it is. Like I say back I'm blessed above and beyond. You know, so it is just
the next thing on the road to where I got to go. And it's a patience. It really is, you know,
but I got a good circle and my trainer. super hot. Yeah, she's super smart. She's a good
trainer. Anyway. I'm talking about Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 1:23:51
Okay, all right. Um, I guess my next question was about like health commons. How did you
get involved with health commonss? And then after that, how do you think that we could
improve health commonss?
S
Sean Johnson 1:24:05
Yes, this place right? Yep. I got here cuz this dude here, uncle. Yeah, he bought me here.
Cuz it gave out bus tokens. You know, he said certain people think differently. So these are
bus tokens here. And so that's why I came. But once I got here, I saw the benefit of Kate.
Katie, you know, and the group thing or whatever. But um, anyway, just somewhere to go
where they had grits. There's nothing here. I'm from the south. So you didn't get him to
and and they were consistently they were consistent God cuz, you know, I like consistency.
And I don't like surprises. You know what I mean? Yeah. Not not in that kind of situation.
You know, and but what I would what I like about it is they were consistently decent
people. You know what I mean? And, and to improve it. I don't know. For me, I think just
keep doing what you're doing man but but just but with the understanding of everybody's
a human and and their journeys are what I want to say when I say I'm a human. They
don't get that that means I kill you. You know what I mean? To kill you to resuscitate you?
Humans, you know? Right. All that, but when you but if you say you're human and be
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humane, they No, no, no. Do you understand that? Do I mean Hello? When they try to dog
shot you with a gun? Oh, you know? Except all of who you are. They don't mean you're
gonna go around killing people. But But do you understand that? That's on the table.
Yeah, I mean, and so for me. I just I just like the idea that I was raised in a way that I could
evolve. You see what I'm saying? Cuz too many had to do. And he told me, he says, Matt
was raised like this. I no, dude, he just completely screw everybody. Everybody around
him. He just take it, you know? It's like, dude, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We can hang out.
Because A back to the high heels. Why can't everybody just be respectful for me? My
mama raised me Do your 53 at some point, you got to take responsibility for this shit. You
do he's stealing from everybody. But no, no, no, no, no. You will know how I was raised. You
know how my dad taught me to deal with that? Do you really want to know? You know
what I'm saying? Is so...
I
Isaac Tadé 1:26:59
we gotta be more than we are. Yeah, yeah, we gotta be more than that.
S
Sean Johnson 1:27:06
Yeah, cuz cuz at the time when my dad raised me at that time, that was the best that was
that. But it's thirty years later. You know, I'm saying and so for me to still be doing the shit I
was doing at 12 good. That's, you know, come on, man. It but but it was working for you
know if you can just go take everybody shit and just people. I mean, what? No, no, no, no.
Okay, here's how this is gonna work. This ain't gonna work. Because Yeah, but it just was in
my mind. I couldn't believe you said that new 53 years old. Mama raised him like that. Get
the hell out of here, dude. He just taken and but to do what he was dealing with. Yeah,
were his friends. They were all handicap. And I'm like, come on, man. This this. This just
ain't right. Do they get the money? He do. He got dude's EBT card and his cash. Dude
asking him to get his shit back. Like come home and get a man. You know, he don't know
how to handle it is. I got the handle this way. You know, you know, he's a problem. But
anyways. People take advantage of people.
I
Isaac Tadé 1:28:27
Is there anything else you'd like to say that I didn't ask?
S
Sean Johnson 1:28:32
I don't know. We kind of went all over the place. Yeah, we talked about a lot. But what I
use what I will do that I can't think of that right now. But I think I think some of the main
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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things I don't know if they were said or not, was just to see people as human. And
understand that everybody has a story. And understand as humans, that's a hell of a
spectrum. It is. You know what I'm saying? If you don't believe that turn on CNN. You know,
like, you know, but uh, but that's it, man. Just be genuine with people. You know. Don't try
not to judge. You know, but I think like I said, I think anything that has a good spirit behind
it is going to bear fruit. You know what I'm saying? That's why Kate. Kate, I think has God's
favor on her. I surround myself people like that. You got God's favor? Hello. Hey, you know
what I mean? Bring it you know. Now you know, Kate. Nice. You know, I've never told her
that. But, uh, but I think she I know she does. You know, I mean, and. But she's not alone.
She's not a unicorn. You know? She's really not. But we're not like, people like that. Can we
get God's favor you know, who knows what kind of But let's see when you got good. That's
why that dream thing to dream beyond your dream. You see what I'm saying? I never
would have thought somebody look like that, No, you know, but I meant I meant that
trend is super hot. I'm supposed to. I met Kate when I supposed to meet you when I was
supposed to. You see what I'm saying? Don't people less older like I tell him all the time
they were like angels to me? Yeah, you don't say cuz when he was going down, they had
to close it down but she came out and it was given out some sandwiches or some old shit
like that. Right? But that's not what I meant me to cover I needed. I needed you know, a
conversation. Yes.
I
Isaac Tadé 1:30:38
Some human connection.
S
Sean Johnson 1:30:40
Yes. And so she's like, Do you need anything to say? And I don't know, can I just get what I
need? You know? What I mean? Yeah, just keep this here going. You know, it seemed when
she met me. I was on the bike with the strippers on the back. And she's like a pastor lady,
you know, and so she's looking actively looking at me, you know? But she never judged
me. Then a dude that was higher up than he was like can i by a bike from you? He wanted
to turn the bike up she stood up for the bike. You know what I mean? Cuz she had heard
stories about to bite what to do with the bike and how to bike race joy, a lot of money to
me, but but you know, to me, it's not about going to the strip club. But um, it's just man,
just five people that has God's favor on them.
I
Isaac Tadé 1:31:28
I like that.
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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S
Sean Johnson 1:31:29
You know,
I
Isaac Tadé 1:31:29
I like that.
S
Sean Johnson 1:31:30
Yeah. Because that is simple that we we over we over complicate that keeps it simple
man. Keeps it simple. And God can be done. You know, and get what gets me through life
time because dates. I get blessed all the time. Like yesterday, I had a need and like a
need. And he took care of it. I didn't see it coming. I really did. And see guess what
happens with me? No, you know, it happens all the time. But But yeah, man, I thank my
mom for that because Karie and all the people that have been the other day the girl says,
You got to train her. And I do my trainer. Yeah, got that trainer that's hot. But you're my
trainer. Isaac, you know, Kate's my train. You know what I mean? I did girl that was even
with the hands. That's my trainer. Do you know dude with the with the tags? Yeah. Yes, my
train. You know what I'm saying? Cuz he's gonna take all that kicking this crazy day here.
To do what he supposed to do
I
Isaac Tadé 1:32:35
you're saying. We can learn from every situation for the people around us.
S
Sean Johnson 1:32:38
Isaac! He works thought people like Isaac Yes. And when will we get to where we don't
understand that we Houston we got a problem. We got a problem. You know, there's
nothing I can keep benefit from being you know, took this girl look at her. How could she
do right? You just missed out on a blesseing, right? You know what I mean? Right? And
people don't get that. Can they see me and now sumali thing? I'm in the shelter with you,
you know what I you mean? I'm not passing through the buck over there? You know, well,
you know what, suppose I'm gonna go and go to sleep and you know, but yours it's funny.
But but but there's guys hope you don't have good people. You know, in your little little
workout. You know? Yes, sir. You know? Yes, sir. You know, honestly believe that in spite of
everything you see to the contrary? God will be god and he works through people.
Isaac Tadé 1:33:44
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
Page 35 of 37
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I
Isaac Tadé 1:33:44
Absolutely.
S
Sean Johnson 1:33:45
But here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna think about this, because it's important. You
know, saying if I come up with something okay, because I keep I keep something the right
way. And I notice a notebook on his phone somewhere. And I gotta find, I believe, yeah,
there we go. Okay, but yeah, so we got somewhere, take notes. Because when you when I
hear a joke, because it was joke to me, somebody else might need to hear that to my my
benefit.
I
Isaac Tadé 1:34:19
Yeah.
S
Sean Johnson 1:34:21
And he says, okay, and I keep that with me. But it also keeps me grounded. You know,
sometimes, when you see Uncle, you know, whatever, be an uncle human or whatever. It
takes a little something to not, you know what I mean? Be as human as you'd like to be,
you know, and so, but, but it's cool. I mean, I feel pretty good about about the decisions
I've made. Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 1:34:53
You know what I mean?
S
Sean Johnson 1:34:54
And that's a good thing. You know, could never be nice. I looked in the mirror every day.
But But yeah, so it takes some doing
I
Isaac Tadé 1:35:07
getting there. Yeah, everything is a work in progress all the time. Yes, sir. I love that. Well,
thank you for your time and the rich account of your personal history. Yeah. All right. We're
good to go.
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
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S
Sean Johnson 1:35:19
Boom.
I
Isaac Tadé 1:35:20
That's it.
Oral History Sean Johnson, 2021
Page 37 of 37
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Show less
Oral history with Ruth Enestvedt
Wed, 3/10 2:32PM
1:23:16
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, nursing, commons, students, nurses, health, augsburg, money, university, model, college,
cheryl, experience, community, talk, faculty, work, taught, education, thought
SPEAKERS
Ruth Enestvedt, Kathleen C... Show more
Oral history with Ruth Enestvedt
Wed, 3/10 2:32PM
1:23:16
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, nursing, commons, students, nurses, health, augsburg, money, university, model, college,
cheryl, experience, community, talk, faculty, work, taught, education, thought
SPEAKERS
Ruth Enestvedt, Kathleen Clark, Kaija Freborg
Kathleen Clark 00:00
Well thank you for joining us today on this oral history project are on the health commons
and the Department of Nursing at Augsburg University. My name is Katie Clark. I am an
assistant professor of nursing. Also with us I have another faculty member.
K
Kaija Freborg 00:17
My name is Kaija Freborg. I am also an assistant professor in the nursing department and
current director of the BSN program.
Kathleen Clark 00:25
Great. And then for our interviewee, can you please introduce yourself for the recording?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 00:32
Ruth Enestvedt.
Kathleen Clark 00:34
Great. And can you tell us your title when you were here at Augsburg?
Oral history with Ruth Enestvedt
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R
Ruth Enestvedt 00:40
an assistant professor of nursing.
Kathleen Clark 00:43
Right. Good. And we're gonna come back as requested by Dr. Enestvedt said to go over
the consent at the end. change things up a bit. Good. Good.
R
Ruth Enestvedt 00:55
Thank you.
Kathleen Clark 00:56
Alright, well, to get us started. Can you just tell us a little bit about you, for example, where
were you born? And who did you call family.
R
Ruth Enestvedt 01:06
I was born in northwestern Minnesota and a rural community and then a farm in my
childhood and was post war. So it was a dramatic change from rural culture to focus on
moving into the urban environment in order to assimilate this immigrant family. So I went
to college, but was just the second person family for college. My older brother did, but he
got recruited for football. So it was no big deal for him to apply and think about who
before me went to college. I thought I wouldn't get into college because I couldn't put on
the forum that I had any family members who'd gone to college. So we made up
something about uncle gummy teaching at Gus Davis - it really wasn't made up. But
anyway, I got into college and my mother, who was a nurse. And I've one of the things you
wanted to know was something about her saying, and my mother was a nurse that I was
always interested in how she was respected when anybody was sick. And she could talk to
the the medical people and I couldn't understand what they were talking about. But I had
aunts that were nurses, and at that time you were a nurse, you were a teacher. And thing,
thanks to my mother, she said if you're going to be a nurse, you're not going to a training
program, you're going to go to a college. So but I you know, months before final
applications, where do I started to apply and ended up going to St Olaf my first
educational experience. So I thought from there that I really wanted to work in a hospital
and then we're going to high powered hospital. So I went up to Mass General in Boston
thinking this is a high powered hospital. And I was in an orientation program with nurses
from the University of Michigan. They were high powered nurses. This was a whole
Oral history with Ruth Enestvedt
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different, whole different background of education when I say no, but they went into the
middle upper middle class part of massgeneral, which it was at that time probably still is
the most expensive private hospital in the country. And that's called the General Hospital.
Well, I went to the so called welfare part of the hospital, which was a part of how I was on
the National Historic Register. And I found that although it wasn't the high powered
medical place, it was really interesting for the diversity of the patients who came there. We
got people from South Boston. So we have a lot of Irish from South Boston, Italians, we
have a lot of people from different backgrounds. And they were primarily low income, of
course, because this was the welfare part of the past. And I found myself being intrigued
by this diversity. But what I couldn't stand about the hospital setting was the gender
politics and the idea that I was supposed to do what the doctors ordered. I recall for
example, being told that I was to at that time, all the guys in the ward, it was an open
word for smoking, if they want to smoke, they can smoke. guy with liver problems a doctor
wrote on the chart, no smoking. And I looked at the chart, the head nurse said you need to
tell him he can smoke. I said if the doctor doesn't want him to smoke, he can tell them. So
needless to say I was not the person they're in but I lasted I lasted because I was too
scared to work in Roxbury. I really would have liked community health but you know, white
girl from the rural community, I just didn't have the street, whatever to do that. I'm sorry
now because it would have been fascinating. So anyway, I came back to Minnesota
worked in community health, saw that a lot of the things that we considered crises at
nurses were kind of daily life for the people we were working with, that there's something
wrong here we are really, you know, we really don't know how to intervene in this
situations. So I thought, I'm more education. That'll do it for me. So I got a master's degree
at the University of Minnesota and in public health thinking, now I'll really learn how to
intervene and really help people. The one thing I knew when I went to that master's
program was I did not want to teach. I knew that for sure. So after I get done with the
program, one of my friends who was teaching at the university asked me if I would come
and teach. So that's where I started teaching in community health, and found that it was a
lot of fun, especially because I was teaching in clinical settings. And, you know, that's what
I really liked. Well, long came children and I dropped out in nursing for a while and had a
friend working for Humphrey Institute, a research project. And she asked me if I wouldn't
come and take do the nursing part of this research project. It was a federal federally
funded grant, looking at homecare, nursing home care for the elderly. And I learned some
interesting things there. Number one, we were on that grant for at least two years without
any identified objectives. And they kept getting funded and funded, funded. I thought,
This is strange. How does this work? I didn't know you could get funds and keep getting
friends? Well, it turns out that people who are running the program had a lot of
connections in Washington, that's how it's done. I've learned one little thing about how
that federal funding actually works. Anyway. So I worked there for a while and decided
that was coming to an end. So I went back to the school, nursing University, Minnesota.
Oral history with Ruth Enestvedt
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And there was a lot of pressure then to get a PhD, if you're going to teach at the university.
So a couple of friends and I decided we better go ahead and do that. And I had no
absolutely no interest in doing data focused research, I had no interest in hypothesis
generation. Even though as an undergraduate, I had studied nursing research with a
friend in January, when an inner moving to Washington DC just wrote letters to people
who are leading the research, work in nursing. And some of you might have come and talk
to you. They set up appointments, we went up to Washington, we, with the people out
there, and we're really leaders in nursing research at the time. And it was interesting to
me, but here was one of the ironies of my nursing career. I thought I wanted to be an
expert in something, because I wanted to be sought out as an expert. And as you guys
know, one of the things that I have come to at the end of my career was expert is the
wrong perspective to take, you can be an expert, if you're going to sit in a room among
experts and compete about who's got the most, you know, to say about the poor, the
disadvantaged, the people who are homeless, then you can be an expert, but only with
those kind of experts. So let's see, where was I going to get sidetracked something you can
edit out of? No, I okay. So I got my master's degree, I was teaching and pressure to get a
PhD. And I didn't want to do hypothesis does, I just didn't want that kind of research at all.
But I was really interested in doing quantitative research. I have always been curious
about how other people live their lives, how they solve their problems, what kind of things
they encounter and where they came from, what they think about. So it just seemed like a
natural that I would choose anthropology, they had a whole different kind of process of
scholarship of learning. So that's what I did. And it took me a while to kind of get sorted in
that department with who is going to be the right people to work with. And I always felt
kind of marginalized because I didn't come through there. I didn't get a master's degree in
anthropology. It was coming from a side, you know, department but I kept at it or dead. It
took me a long time. But I didn't feel bad for a long it took me because it only took me a
couple of years longer than the average length of time it takes to get a PhD in
anthropology. And meantime, I had a full time job at the university. I had a part time job
with Hennepin County. I was raising two kids, you know, the you know the story. It's kind of
the typical woman's story right? So it took me a little bit longer to get the PhD. And finally,
it was kind of like do or die. And I decided, well, I want to do the PhD. But I could give a
crap about the University of Minnesota. So I said, I'm leaving here, goodbye. And thank
you for the education because they paid my way in the PhD program. But I gave them a
lot too. But at that time, what I really enjoyed with my friends, I had two good friends in
the community health department, and we worked with the Center for Urban and
Regional affairs at the Humphrey Institute and develop what we call the high rise project.
And at the time, we were doing the high rise project, we heard about Ben Nillson, starting
a nursing Center at Central Lutheran, we were straightforward about we're really not so
much helping people as we're exchanging some experience in community work
community help with people who went in for that the students are getting this experience.
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And however we can help in this community, we will help. And the funny thing was, people
weren't so interested in having health intervention, they were more interested in making
Halloween things or having some kind of coffee, things like that, that seemed to the
students, of course, like totally not nursing. But it struck me that, of course, this is nursing,
because what we are really doing here is helping to create a community with in a place
where there's a lot of mistrust, a lot of fear. It was at a time when thanks to Reagan, the
money was going out of public housing, and going into senior housing, private fully
developed senior housing, so forth. And so what happened was the housing got emptied.
And in moved, the guys from the rust belt, who were out of jobs, and many Minnesota was
Minneapolis was a great new area fertile field for the drug trade. So people started
moving in to public housing. And at that time, they only that's if you weren't over 65, you
had to be disabled, or disabled meant you were addicted. So or you were mentally ill one
or the other. So it became kind of a frightening environment for people who were living
there. But it also became a lot more fascinating in a way. So I ended up doing my
research there my dissertation research, and found it to be I probably heard many stories
about this before, but I found that to be really interesting, really, I have always found that
diversity, you know, interesting, but also to see just the kind of cultural dynamics among
the poor. I remember, for example, you guys saying to me, great diversity, you can sit
somewhere and talk about how we need to have diversity here. Have you ever really lived
in diversity? And you know, when people are scrambling for scarce resources, diversity, it
looks a lot different, I think, you know. So anyway, they taught me a whole lot about how
you how you get along, when things are very scarce. And you have used up all your money
and pull tabs after the first week. You know, what do you do? How do you get along? So
there I am.
Kathleen Clark 13:34
So can you tell us a little bit more about what your dissertation was?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 13:38
Yeah, my dissertation was about critical medical anthropology focus, looking at
controlling resistance to or non resistance or professional control among low income
elderly women.
Kathleen Clark 13:54
And what did you do for that project?
Oral history with Ruth Enestvedt
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R
Ruth Enestvedt 13:57
I talked with the elderly women in public housing, spent a lot of time in the public housing,
just hanging out there and seeing that, that social dynamics were spent a lot of time
talking to a lot of different people in the building, had some experiences where I really
blew it. I remember a woman who I had a really good relationship with she was really a
sharp little lady. And she had called the security guard one night, she was telling me this
story that she called the security guard, who to tell her that you know, somebody tried to
break into her apartment, and the security guard didn't do anything didn't even come up.
So Miss intervention Miss solved the problem. I was going to go and talk to the security
guard and make sure that this didn't happen again. So I went and talked to the security
guard, who was like the elderly woman, African American. The next time I came into the
public housing setting that other laywoman was downstairs waiting for me and she just
ripped into me. I had crossed a line. As a white woman, I do not interfere with her. Her
situation, when it's another black woman, keep my nose out of her business. It was like,
Whoa, Okay, I get it. You know. And I had another man, I naively said, I will help you get to
the doctor, I'd be glad to give you a ride thinking, you know, this would be real helpful, too.
And he looked at me, was an elderly African American gentleman, he looks to me said,
You have no idea how much trouble I could get into. If I was seen with you. Whoa, okay.
There is a whole lot behind this. And I don't have a clue about. But you know, I developed
a lot of trust with people. And I could, you know, one time dollars, really, this ex gang
member who was just really a big guy can be really intimidating. And he said, The came
into where I was one day, and he said, so he said, You know, I was walking home last night,
and a couple young guys pulled a gun on me. He says, what do you do? So I looked at him,
I said, you could shoot me. But you'd end up in in the pan. I'm telling you, that would be
really bad life for you. I said, so what am he says? So they walked away said, well, you
probably looked like somebody who knew what they were talking about from experience.
He said, Yeah, I did. I said, So what was it like being in a gang? He said, terrifying. I was
scared all the time? Well, you know, this is I was always in a base that people would tell me
things like this. And of course, who knows how they said, you know, here's this little white
girl who, you know, what does she know? fill her full. But nevertheless, there were you
know, you can tell when people I can tell I think a little bit when people are being honest.
So anyway, it was quite a great experience. And the dissertation research ended up to be
quite fascinating. In fact, two of my readers said they actually read it.
Kathleen Clark 17:13
You're not supposed to make us laugh. Um, so if anybody were to want to read your
dissertation, is it anywhere publicly available?
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R
Ruth Enestvedt 17:23
Well, the dissertation abstracts the University of Michigan, it's there.
Kathleen Clark 17:29
And then one question, just going back to your teaching at the U, What did it look like
when you taught community health in that time?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 17:39
Well, the classic, the classic way to teach community health was to have lectures, and
then you would have clinicals and the clinicals. Or to go and sit in an agency, while you
the nurses took care of the students, you know, they took them out on their visits. And
they took them to really, you know, two people who would agree to have students alone.
That was how it was taught. And at the same time, this was supposed to be community
centered nursing was supposed to be community health, and what they were getting was
seeing individuals in their home, which isn't to me much community you get, you certainly
get a flavor of things that are different from the hospital. But we felt my friends and I, this
is not community, we really need to go into a community and try to see what some of the
dynamics are, that are work that are affecting people and influencing them. We had a
fight on our hands with the faculty, who were not us the rest of the faculty who just wanted
to do the traditional public health, they will never be able to pass their public health. This
isn't really public health hand wringing and handling. So we would get people on our
sides, like, you know, the Humphrey Institute or the president of the university, or we went
to we were so naive, we went down to the there was the assistant in the ER, she was just a
dynamic woman from Don Fraser was the mayor at that time. And this woman was just
dynamite. And we would go to her and she'd say, Well come and talk to this. We have this
committee on poverty or something like that. Can't remember exactly what's coming, talk
to them, tell them what you're doing. So we went to them. And we said, you know, this is
what we're doing. They said, How much money do you want? Oh, okay. Well, you know, we
could probably, I don't know, a couple $1,000. So they gave us a couple $1,000 a week
came back to them then with the report about what we had done, what would have
happened with the medicine. Whoa, we don't often get feedback like this. How much
more money do you need? We were just we had no clue how we could have really had a
lot more influence than we did. So we you know, we carried on like that and it was really a
I think it was a very good project. But when we left, nobody in the faculty wanted to go out
into the community actually practice. They wanted to sit in the agency and let the nurses
take the students out. So it just ended. So then thank goodness for the outcome. Nursing
center.
Oral history with Ruth Enestvedt
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Kathleen Clark 20:21
We are so you mentioned the high rise project. And that's when you learned about Be
Nillson's work. So how did you end up at Augsburg?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 20:32
Well, I got a PhD in anthropology, partly to get out of nursing. Because I really couldn't, I'd
have no good experiences really, in nursing. Community Health was the closest thing to
making use of what I have my education, but I didn't feel like it was really relevant for the
people I was dealing with, even though I felt more comfortable in it. So that okay, maybe
I'll just get out of nursing. Maybe I'll just do the anthropology PhD and see where that
takes me. Well, it was a good time to get employed in universities, which was above the
only place you could go, you know, with that kind of a degree. So hearing about the
transcultural nursing program, beginning at Augsburg and how all that makes a lot of
sense. Why don't I try that? and Cheryl Leuning, and I had tied together at the University.
She came into the high res project as a new person on the faculty and got it right now she
got it and she took her group of students into a public housing and did a fantastic job. So
we have worked together there. And I knew she was at Augsburg too. So that kind of
there. I remember my interview with Bev. And she said to me, so what's your theory of
nursing?
Kathleen Clark 21:53
No.
R
Ruth Enestvedt 21:57
So I said, I think my theory of nursing is supporting autonomy through relationships. Well,
Beth got on to that very well, she could figure out I didn't have to put a theorists name to
it. You know, she agreed with it. So I came to Augsburg and what year was that? 1999.
Kathleen Clark 22:21
And was it just the BSN completion program then are we had the master's program
started?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 22:27
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Cheryl and Bev had started one course I think it was maybe the I don't know, whatever
500 is now. And they were teaching it as an immersion. immersion Friday night Saturday
in Sioux Falls. And people like Deb Schumacher, and there were a couple of people who
drove to Sioux Falls for the weekend to take this course and transcultural nursing, and so
on. Since that was underway. And I started teaching. The first course I taught was a BSN
research course in Rochester was adjusted at the time that the Rochester program was
starting. And there was a lot of dis cord at the college about being forced to teach a ride
down in Rochester. And one of the tenured faculty members here at Augsburg had been
teaching research and she refused to go down to Rochester to teach. So I said, Okay, I'll
go down a register to teach their course. She didn't want to have anything to do with me
teaching. Of course, she taught her course, I taught my course. And it was a disaster.
Probably some of the worst teaching evaluations I've ever got in my life. I didn't look. So I
got out of that, thankfully, and into developing courses in the master's program.
Kathleen Clark 24:01
So how do you know much about how the program began at all?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 24:06
Not really - well, there was the early early days, you know, that this? I believe Augsburg
was focused on an education, of quality education for working people, you know, people
couldn't afford other private colleges. And I think they started out with the ministry. That's
where they started as a seminary. And then I think one of the next focuses was on
education and business was in there the summer and then the next one was nursing. And
they had a relationship with with deaconess, Lutheran deaconess hospital, and maybe
Martha, you know, talked about this and there was clearly an early early arrangement
with Lutheran deaconess to have the science courses taught here. For the their nursing
students, which is, you know, nursing program if you ask me it's connected to the college,
the BSN program I recall, there was what year might it have been? I was just probably
back teaching at the university. So maybe it was in the 70s. Probably Bev Nillson was
starting this completion program was just the beginning of completion programs in the
state of Minnesota. It was at somebody from my graduate program started one up in
Morehead. Anyway, so there was this completion program and starting here.
Kathleen Clark 25:50
And then as far as the transcultural nursing emphasis, I know you just mentioned that Bev,
Cheryl, were, you know, kind of starting the MAN program at a time but do you know how
Oral history with Ruth Enestvedt
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it was kind of decided upon that that would be the focus of the MAN and transcultural
nursing.
R
Ruth Enestvedt 26:11
I think that's what Bev and Cheryl wanted to do.
Kathleen Clark 26:15
I just didn't know if like, I'm trying to think even through leininger. And when she came out
with you should know, Kaija. Oh, when our theory came about in the 60s
R
Ruth Enestvedt 26:28
Cheryl had Cheryl had been had she had a degree in transcultural nursing. So she had
already been connected to leininger. But we started, we started the program before it was
accredited. Well, we still had about, I don't know, three or four courses to develop. And
before those courses were even developed, we were being accredited. It was just a kind of
a bizarre situation. And I know because I was the interim chair at the time, it was
Kathleen Clark 27:10
how to did a small group of women not only run the department, but create many
different programs and tracks. How did you manage all this?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 27:19
You know, I think there was Cheryl was the chair. Well before that Bev, of course. And there
was somebody who was very creative, very open to ideas. She was very frugal money wise,
and was not so interested in reaching out into national spheres. But when Cheryl came on,
Cheryl was really interested in connecting nationally. And she was not as frugal as Bev.
And Cheryl was just if you have an idea, try it out. I mean, it was really it has always been, I
think a department like that, at least in my experience. Okay, try it, see what happens. Go
ahead. And that made it a it was always supported that kind of creative work. We are now
I think many of the nursing faculty at that time. And even until just a few years ago, we're
in a non tenure track. And now there's kind of this shift to move towards a tenure track as
a department. What do you think that shift came about, do you have any idea? Well, I
think it changed as the college changed, you know, the college became more formalized
in who can who needs to be reviewed? What does review have to look like if you're a non
Oral history with Ruth Enestvedt
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tenure track, and you have to go through the same thing, practically the tenure track
people do. You know, Cheryl came here. I mean, there was some petty stuff that
happened. Cheryl came here as a tenured professor from Augustana. And they would not
give her a tenured professor position. She they would give her professor but she had to go
on expedited track to tenure, which was just Bs, and it was really cheap, cheap stuff. And I
think one of the things that the nursing department fought against, was this belittling this
dismissive attitude that nurses I think, have always faced, you know, not being taken
seriously. Not really listened to being kind of marginalized as a, you know, you girls go and
do what you want to do, you know, this touchy feely stuff, go ahead, you know. And so,
when we got this graduate program going, it was it took a long time. Time. And I don't
know if it's even still completely divorced from the idea that this graduate program was a
Rochester program. And I have no idea why they wanted it to be just a Rochester
program. But there was a took a long time to kind of get the end. I don't know if Joyce is
still fighting it or not Cheryl fight it the whole time. This is one program. And you know,
that's that's a financial thing. And I am, but they they there's this mystifying
Kathleen Clark 30:38
How many years did you work at Augsburg total?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 30:42
99. To When did I finally retire? It must have been about 15-16 years, probably 15 years full
time.
Kathleen Clark 30:50
And what really kept you here? All those years...
R
Ruth Enestvedt 30:53
oh, the relationships of the faculty, the students the opportunity for the intellectual
stimulation, creating stuff all the time. It was so much fun. I mean, I created a lot of
courses, I created a lot of immersions. And it was just a lot of fun.
Kathleen Clark 31:11
How did you I believe that you were the first one to set up the Guatemala version?
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R
Ruth Enestvedt 31:16
I was.
Kathleen Clark 31:16
How did that come about?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 31:18
Oh, that Cheryl was at I think the Peace Prize forum sitting next to a big donor. And one of
just blanked on his name. He was had a maybe it will come to me anyway, she was sitting
next to this big donor. And they were talking about Guatemala and San Lucas. And this
donor said, You know, I really think it would be good if there could be some nursing
involvement in San Lucas at the mission. And so you know, we'll we'll find some nurses to
go down there. Okay, so there were some, the first the first trip down there. I think Sue and
I went down there, like just for a couple of days, just to kind of scope it out, meet Fidel,
kind of see what we were going to do. And then we brought a group of nurses and the
nurses got it paid for by this donor, it was a pledge, the donor never came through. Her
husband got really sick. And she started begging for money. So it was kind of an
unfortunate thing that happened, because that could have been a really helpful thing for
more students to go. But once it gets in, and at first, the we we took graduate students,
and then the next year undergraduate students went, and then the next year, it was, there
were just many students interested in it. And it just kind of felt like this should be an every
other year thing to me. And, and not an undergraduate thing. You know, it just, it's my
bias that I think these immersion experiences are for the cost. And for the time to set it up.
I think graduate students do a better job of taking advantage of it and getting into it.
K
Kaija Freborg 33:24
Can I ask a question?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 33:24
Of course. So it seems like I'm feeling that there's this, like, overwhelming theme of like,
innovation on your part with little resources, little money, little support? What kind of
advice would you give either faculty or nurses in order to get things done without always
necessarily having the help to do so? Well, I think, I think that the small size of the faculty
and the close relationships, there's a lot of support, at least there was, you know, where
people really backed each other up and did their job, we had a couple of people who were
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here who didn't do their job didn't do their part, and they're no longer here, which was just
fine. And we had some bad experiences with some tenure track people who didn't do the
work, you know, didn't show up. So I think that was another element relative to the tenure
track for not doing you know, I, I, I kind of worry about going to university status in a way
because just as my friend at the university said, when we they went to a doctoral
program, every lower probably because the real status thing and then the lower programs
get less respect less resources, you know, it just doesn't seem to get spread around as
equally so. I don't know, when it was small, but you know, I served on the Senate, and I was
not I was neither in a tenure track. Or Associate Professor even. And I can remember being
asked to be in some regions committee and I said, I can't be an associate professor and
people in the senate were, like, you're not an associate professor No. You know, so you
could participate without having to be in a kind of box of a certain kind. And that helps in
a way because you get access to people and, you know, to things other things at the
college. I don't know. I, it's a, it's a very interesting question, because I think a lot was done.
And, you know, there was a point at which the joke was do we do we need to pay
Augsburg now? You know, because we weren't, we didn't feel like we were getting paid for
all the time we were putting in. But there were other things about it that kept this going.
Kathleen Clark 36:02
Well, onto a different topic. But so when did your work at the health commons, which was
then called the nursing center? When did that? When did that start?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 36:13
The same year that I became interim chair, started the immersion in Mexico, we had the
accreditation for the master's program. It was a busy year.
Kathleen Clark 36:29
And what did it look like when you first started?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 36:35
There was one long room that looked a little bit clicky and had dividing had had an exam
table and had medicine things it had curtains to draw. And it had a desk where people
had came to ask for help from the nurse they had ever probably need help with. But it was
clear that most people were coming for socks. So we would run from the desk back to the
whole behind the curtain and get socks back to the curtain and get sucked back to the
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curtain and get sink. And this is a little silly. We just have socks today and out. So we
moved the socks up to the front. We also had pharmacy vouchers we had there was a
deal with Walgreens pharmacy and we would people would come and this was brilliant.
We wouldn't we couldn't diagnose right. So on this voucher, we would just write what
people told us. This is what they say is their problem, or this is what they say they need.
And they would take this voucher to Walgreens look for something themselves or ask the
pharmacist. Well, that was running into a lot of money. People were using them to shop
you know. And so we decided that this isn't working so well plus Walgreens closed and we
couldn't find another resource to connect to it. So you know, there was still in our mind
that there were going to hire a permanent person here to do health promotion, health
promotion, health education was the beginning I think of the nursing center. Well, I'm not
a big believer in health education. And health promotion is kind of still an expert model.
So it just didn't seem to be something that was working here. And I think, well, we got the
we got the mail room for a little quiet place. So we put some recliner and some other
comfortable chairs and you know, subdued lighting in there and would offer that as a
place for people to sleep. If they've been walking the streets all night. They seem really
anxious or they needed just a place to be quiet by themselves. We tried some other little
things that didn't really work too well. So I think it it just sort of gradually moved away
from you got to come with a problem. But what you really want are these other things
that you really need to but let's just start there, instead of starting with, you have to come
in here and make up something or ask for something, you know, what do
Kathleen Clark 39:15
you know about the beginnings of nursing?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 39:20
Well, like I said, I think it was focused on I think it was focused on Maternal and Child
Health health promotion, things in the idea that there was a part time director or clinician
who was there I think there used to be white coats hanging in the closet. So I think they
were wearing white coats and you know, it really was more of a medical clinical mock
clinic model. And yet I know that at one point, there was so much money sitting in that
account just sitting in the account. And we had shifted to bring the getting stuff for people
because That's what they were looking for they were needing, and here was all this money.
So this became a, a big discussion point at meetings of their Advisory Committee. What
are you doing spending the money? Are we doing keeping the money? But are we saving
afford? Why you spending it? Right? Well, what's it for it is important, even here's need
right in front of our eyes. So. So that's kind of started to shift. But I think the rainy day
security part was for the idea that they were going to give a full time practice person
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there, our halftime practice person, they needed to have some money to pay that person.
But that didn't really seem to make sense, because this was becoming more and more
integrated as an educational experience as well. So
Kathleen Clark 41:03
So, since the beginning, or since you started the health Commons, what's changed the
most since the last time you were there?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 41:09
since the last time I was there? Yeah, I don't know. Since the last time I was there.
Kathleen Clark 41:14
What's changed the most from the time you started until the time you retired?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 41:21
I, I think, the space and the name opened up a whole new kind of view of what it is, could
be done, what was happening there. I think you're Katie's efforts to open and get that
room and open it up and make it you know, much more inviting, to make it to make it
work for what we're actually doing now, which was inviting people in to get these supplies,
and to have another space that was welcoming and relaxing for people to talk with
nurses. And I think more and more student experience has become a part of the part of
the health commons. I think going from the term nursing center to health commons was a
real shift that opened things up, because then people didn't have to feel like, well, you're
What are you doing here? Are you doing medicine here? Are you diagnosing people? are
you treating people? Is this legal or illegal? We had we'd have a doctor from the
congregation come down on Sunday mornings when we're in the nursing center and say,
What are you doing here? In so with that kind of dissipated, just like in the neighborhood
here in Cedar Riverside, when we came up with the commons name, suddenly, all of the
territorial, you know, stuff just evaporated. We aren't competing with you. We are not a
health provider. How can you provide health anywhere? I'd like to know, you know, so
what we're doing is creating a different opportunity for people.
Kathleen Clark 43:16
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And what do you remember on the events for changing it?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 43:20
Well I Rrmember, we're working with sahra you know, and working at the, the Cedar River
site, we're working on, trying to get some sense of what the neighborhood would accept
and sorrow was going to people and getting the feedback. We don't want nurses here. You
know, we don't need nurses here. If you come in as a nurse, you're going to either be
suspected, or you're going to be dismissed because you're not a doctor. So that's not
gonna work. So I think when we came up with the idea was to help, let's just call it a health
commeon That was just gone.
Kathleen Clark 44:01
So as far as nurses, and being skilled at certain things, how do you think nurses can really
think about creating a welcoming space when they're at the health commons?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 44:12
Well, I think it's a great shift. And this again, of shift that can only happen if you there are
a few times, I think, the first time you're there, I think there's sort of a culture shock that
happens, where people just could think, Oh, my gosh, what am I supposed to do? What's
going on here? This isn't like anything, I have no role, what, you know, this isn't this is just
so loose, and so ambiguous, and there's just really nothing happening here. And, I mean,
just the constant pressure to show evidence of, you know, impact effect, you know, is part
of this whole view, that somehow this is a health care process. You know, And when I
heard when I heard before,before the the Obama Health Care Initiative, when I heard, I'm
just no good with names with the person who's now working with the state health
department say, No, we just don't need to talk about health care systems anymore.
putting money into that system is just a black hole. And I think we've seen that it is just a
black hole. If we want to talk about health, we've got to talk about something different
from health care, you know, so I think what the what the health commons does here is
open up an opportunity to see, well, what is it what makes for this kind of experience that
can be health producing or an opportunity for health? And I think just the fact that
students will come? And when they're leaving to kind of say, Well, that was really fun.
Yeah, well, what does that mean? Is it healthy to have fun? Does that give you a different
experience, a different kind of fulfillment, a different opportunity to really find humanity.
And then when we had somebody come, who was from us from Iraq, and he was part of
the health ministry from Iraq, and he came as part of the University of Minnesota, he
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wanted to find out what was this place? You know what? And so we explained that we
gave him curriculum, we showed him everything written and talked to him, and finally got
day said, Ah, he said, this is our humanitarian project. Yes, that's what it is. It's
humanitarian. And what better thing should it be, but more complete more holistic? Could
it be the humanitarian So? So I think, students when, you know, we get to the getting to
the student learning, all those years you spent at the health commons? How did you feel
their their education was transformational, or help them shift from being at the health
commons? What's kind of your experience on how we got to our student outcomes that
we wanted because of being at the health commons? Well, I think students who want to
come back, I think, was a clear indication that this was something that was was providing
something missing, that they wanted to experience. But I remember to especially what
comes to mind, as you asked that question is a guy who worked at Hennepin County, I
think, in a year, it was either an ER or an mental health unit, psychiatric unit. And when he
came in, it was sort of like, Oh, I know, this manipulation. I this is not, there's nothing new
here to me. And so you know, you say, Well, good, you can really help us out then and, you
know, give us some ideas about how this works. And, you know, in other words, respecting
what they already come with, I think, and, and that nothing as I'm thinking but not saying
wrong attitude, you don't come here thinking you know it all you get that's not, instead of
that just to say, Well, I'm good, you can help us that, you know, well, then he was not
feeling defensive. He didn't feel like he had to be showing his knowledge so much. And by
the end of it, he was really impressed with what was happening to people that he hadn't
known about. Because when you're obviously in a hospital setting, you're not talking to
people about what's really happening to you in the street. And it's, it's a dangerous place
for you to sink to lunch in a way. Well, I mean, it's a great generalization of hospital, but so
he he even though he thought he knew and had had experience with the population, he
could, at the end of the just one experience, say this was this was very enlightening. I
learned a lot here and could be specific about it.
K
Kaija Freborg 49:10
I think there's been discussion at the college level or university now around is being in a
faculty role at the health Commons considered service, or is it considered scholarship?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 49:21
Or is it considered teaching?
Kathleen Clark 49:23
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So what's your viewpoint on that?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 49:26
Well, I think the way you handle it, Katie makes it service because it was always a surprise
to me when I was at the University of Minnesota. When I learned that service was not
service in the community. I thought we were doing this high rise project was great service
that holy smokes, look at this. We've got the city council behind this and the president of
the university comes out and uses us as an example of the community, the university and
this is service, wrong service in it in a tenure position is service to the college. committees
are you on? What have you done to help me know with with serve on different task forces,
it isn't service in the community. Now you have been able to bridge that gap, I think, by
your work, to bring faculty to the health commons, to bring students who aren't nursing
students to the health commons, to bring the president students to the health commons,
that begins to look like a college that wants to be serving the community needs to think
about service differently. But I would guess that when you're in your tenure, work with and
it's work with committees, you're going to have to fight for the idea that this is, in fact
legitimate service, because they're going to think, what committees have you been on?
You know, but if you done here for the college, so I think it's a great view, I think you have,
you have are on the way to doing something very important about that. And, of course,
your work with very Boy, you know, whatever it is.
Kathleen Clark 51:15
So, back to more about health commons. So how do you acknowledge the need when
you're at the health commons? What should nurses be doing to acknowledge that need?
How do you see that first stage?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 51:32
Well, I think the first stage is, you know, just being open with what do you what stuff do
you need? You know, and I think one of the things you had asked about was a model. And
I'll just say it right here that the model really got the first the first efforts of this model for
the health commons was, it was stimulated by this constant or ongoing discussion
between Linda and I, who were co co coordinators of the nursing center that time, Linda,
that we shouldn't be spending so much money on stuff, we should that it was really, really
dehumanizing for people to stand in line for this stuff. And that we shouldn't really have
this stuff. Because it was, as a result, it was creating this kind of just, demoralizing,
humiliating experience for people. She has a point. I think there's, there's, there's truth in
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that, you know, but the fact is still there that people are lining up for this stuff. So what do
we say? Because we are too sensitive to do this, we wouldn't have it for them. So we go
around and around about this we got money. Yes. I know what we need to say no, but you
just go around and say that, okay, I've got to kind of formulate what is going on here. That
was humanizing. The humanized people who they had been taught in many, many places,
not the least of which were their family members saying, You can't go there. It's too
dangerous. These people, and they're kind of people, they're grateful people. They don't
even look crazy, you know, so that I think, was a great thing in itself. So from there, you
know, I think just to have things that if you, you have to use your imagination a bit, right?
So if you're a woman on the streets, what would you need? If you're a woman with a
baby? What would you need? Well, you certainly need pads, that's for sure. Where are you
going to get that? You mean, that's expensive stuff? You need diapers, that's expensive
stuff. So just a little imagination. If people are on their feet all the time, what do they
need? I mean, just think about what could just be there and offered.
Kathleen Clark 54:02
I think students especially their first time often struggle with how do you engage around
where you tend to have a struggle?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 54:13
How do you attend to the struggle?
Kathleen Clark 54:15
Yeah. And in a way that gets out of the expert model. They really struggle with that. So
what advice would you give students or nurses practicing health commons around that?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 54:24
Well, like I have hammered many times, don't ask questions. You're not doing an
assessment here. You are not diagnosing what the struggle is. You are, you're responding,
giving feedback in a way that elicits more, more about the struggle. So you are getting a
physical complaint. And that's real, you have to pay attention to it. But it is not the whole
problem. It is just the surface. It is the mediator sort of have the problem, they can bring
this symptom to you, and they can engage with you. And believe me, when they're
engaging with you, they are checking you out, you know? So don't think that you're not on
some kind of assessment in some kind of assessment, but you are. So they are they're
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looking for I do really care. Do you want to know? Is there anything more? Or do you just
really want to check out what this blood pressure is? And all you have to do is say
something positive to them a comment that is positive, through a good thing to check
your blood pressure, something simple. But you have to practice some ways of saying
things that are done a question for not what do you do for your blood pressure? While
your blood pressure seems to be pretty good, you're doing something? That's not a
question. But it certainly opens perhaps some discussion about what else you're doing.
And you will be amazed to find out how careful people are about things like their diet and
their exercise and how much they want to be well, you know?
Kathleen Clark 56:11
Could you give me some examples of what accompany in the journey?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 56:17
Oh, this is a tricky one. It really is a tricky one. Because you may think, and I've been
taught this by people who came to the, to the commons. One fellow came, and he was, he
was really in a bind in where he was living in his living arrangement. And he really wanted
he was wondering if maybe I could write a letter that, you know, told about his work with
the students and how he was a positive help to us at the health commons. And so I said,
sure, I can do that. I can write you a letter. So I wrote the letter. And I went to his living
place, walk in the door and asked for him hand in the letter and say, you know, if you
want, I can come to the meeting, because he was facing eviction or something like that.
And he was very kind, he was just very polite and civilized. No, that's okay. That's okay, I
can manage it. And, you know, went to the door with me, the next time they came to the
commons, he said, you know, you really don't need to do that for me, I come here,
because I want you to listen to me, that's where I get the help. Just listen to me, I'm not
asking you to do anything for me. Okay, so accompaniment is offering the support
listening, believing, trusting, you know, and then if they want something. So I wrote the
letter, but I made that when I made the mistake was delivering the letter, showing up, you
know, because I don't know what the social dynamics were in that setting. But me being
there didn't help his situation. And you know, what, it's like, you go to the you go to a
halfway house, drop in center, usually, or often, the staff there are on the defensive, like,
Who are you? What are you doing here, because clearly, you're not here looking for a
place to stay. So right away, I use some authority from some other place who are going to
check me out. So it's a tricky thing.
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Kathleen Clark 58:31
I think you've taken so many things that are so that are happening in that space that are
so complex and ambiguous, and somehow made it into this rational model that makes
sense, and gives us purpose and words to use to describe what's happening there. How do
you do that? How did you come up with what you came up with? I mean, you?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 58:56
Well, it was not hypothesis testing, there was no data collection. And I was just working it
over in my brain, you know, drawing it out graphically looking at that thinking, what does
that mean? You know, and then I really have in mind this idea of the, the rite of passage, I
think the rite of passage is a helpful way to think about what happens in the in the setting,
coming from formalized system into this ambiguity, and then having your back to the
formal system. So I think it's a good new can ever change. What happened in that little
setting you've been you have been changed somewhat. So I think that's a helpful and that
came to me. I think, then then, you know, I listened Honestly, I respected the students I was
working with who said, Oh, this has to live here. You know, that doesn't work. We need to
have something that shows this as you know, you kind of come in to a different places,
that isn't just a stepwise thing. So came up with I think, a model that represents kind of a
better a better conceptualization of this as not a stepwise thing. The, the part of it that I
feel very strongly about that I think is hard, especially for professionals to grasp is
recognizing how much they are getting from the people who come. So what was left out in
this circle was the activity of the people who come. So if you take what I think is the most
complex thing, the accompaniment, you only get to do accompaniment, if you are invited.
And you are only invited, if you have gone through the other things, and you have
developed trust, when you are attending to need, you have the answer, recognize how
much you're getting from people, you can fulfill a need Holy smokes, you know, that feels
good, no matter what I mean, that's why we're in the helping professions, right? So to see
the mutuality, and to see what people are actually giving to us, I am sure you've had the
experience where at the kind of at the end of the day going over debriefing with students,
and they're just dismissive of what they have heard from people, they don't realize what it
has taken to say, to tell people what they have told them about their lives. You know, I
think I just that was one of the things that was most frustrating to me was students that
they just didn't recognize, this was a great opportunity you had that is a rare opportunity,
a rare opportunity, you know, to have somebody speak honestly, with you about this, I
suppose it would make me most mad when I would have people come for the immersion.
And students would sort of not see what they were hearing from this person. So that part
of it, I think, needs to be emphasized as much as possible.
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Kathleen Clark 1:02:11
I agree. So as far as when you were at the health commons, what what was your favorite
part of ob in there?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 1:02:21
Well, you know, I was hanging out, just hanging out and talking to people, and you're
talking to people without any pressure of doing something to fix them, you know, I just am
and I am a kind of a radical non interventionist. So and that's, it's not a good thing. I
mean, we need people there who can kind of take charge and intervene when it's needed.
And I've done that too. But I think I've also learned that you can kind of wait a little bit,
things kind of unfold, and what they look like a giant emergency, like when the couple
came in, and they wanted us to, you know, file a police report, police brutality, and he was
all black and blue. And you know, we want they wanted our help. And we said, well, you
know, we'll tell us more about it. Let's talk more about it. Well, the more we talked about it,
the more it became clear that there was as much of domestic thing going on here. And an
opportunity that was being looked for it started to feel like so just take some time here
what looks like a big crisis. There's always more to it, it's more complex than it looks on the
surface. So I'm a non interventionist. So the fun was to be there, and just hang out and talk
to people. In the nursing in the health commons, it was easier than up in the community
room. Up in the community room, one of the things that I learned during fellowship and in
the fellowship hall, one of the things I learned from people who would talk to me outside
of the setting, people living in the street. The dynamics among the people who come are
really unrecognizable to us, but they are very active. So being up in the fellowship hall, I
would guess, who you sit with, where you sit, how you talk, who you talk to, is being
watched, and it's being calculated in some way about what your role is here and who
you're singling out. And, you know, why are you so interested in that person? I just think it's
because it's a bigger space. It's more there. They're more social stuff going on. I think it's
easier in the health comments where it's a smaller space, fewer people, and there's sort of
an expectation built up now. That Yeah, you know, they're going to listen.
Kathleen Clark 1:04:56
So for nurses who are caring for people Who might be experiencing homelessness or who
are marginally housed? What advice would you have for them?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 1:05:08
I heard I think it's I'm trying to put together words I think in there from Wendell Berry,
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they're not my words, but it's, it's affected curiosity. In other words, you respect them,
you're really interested in you're interested for your own reasons to, but you're also
interested in because you care about them. And you care about what their what their
experiences.
Kathleen Clark 1:05:47
So if, well, I guess there's so many things that I want to ask you. If there was one thing that
you could change about healthcare, after all, that you learned through this, through your
work at the health commons, and in other settings, what would it be? What would you
want to change?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 1:06:08
I'd rather talk about health and health care. You know, of course, the system could do
better for a single payer and universal, but we're still have, you know, money for this
system. That is, it's just a capitalist system that just sucks up money. It's just a black hole. I
you know, I don't think it works. My son and daughter in law just had a baby couldn't have
been easier unless they did it at home in a bathtub. It cost them $16,500. Which is just
absurd. Now, that's a big problem. And where is that money going? You know. So I think if
we quit talking about health care, and started talking about health, and got
pharmaceutical ads banned from television, banned, if you want to deal with the opioid
addiction, get rid of pharmaceutical ads. I mean, I think that just gives people the idea, a
pill will make me happy, contentious takes a pill, never mind a pill, it's all could be fatal.
You will be happy. You'll have a happy life. We'll have a dog and kids and picnics. And so
anyway, they're the I don't know how you get the corporation's out of the system or the
capitalist out system? I think you I think Minnesota had the right idea. Absolutely. With
Minnesota Care, tax, the places that are making the most money out of this tax, the
professionals tax, the health care delivery systems. You know what, of course, they didn't
like it, but they're making the most money off of it.
Kathleen Clark 1:08:06
So as far as the health commons, what what do you think it should be like 20 years from
now?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 1:08:12
Or 20 years from now, health aren't as many homeless people, but there's no doubt there
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will be in fact, the way this country is going. I just gave a guy a couple of dollars at the exit
because he had a nasty sign about the president. Okay, what do I think in 20 years? That's
hard to think about?
Kathleen Clark 1:08:40
Or is there something right now that you think that we should always remember moving
forward, that maybe we should work on changing a little bit as it was, than it currently is?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 1:08:52
Okay, here's something that I have noticed about nurses and nursing students. They really
don't believe in their own authority. They don't believe in what they have to offer. It's
always just a frame, what are referring you need that you need to go to somebody who
can really help you to step up and say, we are helping we can do this, we are doing this?
And I think, you know, this project to say, I don't have to do the model that is both the
undergraduate fallback default, nor is it the the natural sciences, the fault, the natural
sciences are limited. There's neat, there's more to scholarship. So I think, for scholars and
you guys can do this to really shift scholarship into something that is connected to making
a difference for people in their living situation. What we're, what they're people, people
who are struggling, and that's a lot of people.
Kathleen Clark 1:09:57
Well, you're such a radical thinker, and excellent teacher as you were my teacher, as well
as Dr. Freborg. So what advice do you have for current faculty, or future faculty in the
department teaching transcultural nursing to teach it in a meaningful way?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 1:10:16
well hang on to the transcultural part of it, you know, I, I think we're lucky that we have
students and faculty who going into nurse practitioner track are still open to the
transcultural concepts, because I always felt that's a real danger, because of the power of
the medical model to kind of broaden that. And I know, I don't I don't know how to get
past that, except to just believe in the value of understanding people's circumstances and
the context and how that both relates to what what opportunities they have. And just
keep pushing, pushing that scholarship, a definition, you know, so that, that you will be
pushed and pushed into that research model, that is not useful for everything. It's not the
only way to do things, you know, I, I refuse to do a survey, I refuse, because I think the
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data you get out of a survey is just dangerous, because it is used as if this hack is
generalizable. This has given you some data that you can quantify. No, it hasn't. It's just
limited the areas that you're asking questions about, you're not getting the information,
getting a very limited portion of it. So anyway, I keep pushing that scholarship idea.
Kathleen Clark 1:11:54
Is there one story that you want to share of your like most memorable teaching
experience or a moment at the health commons, that was just something that you reflect
on?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 1:12:05
Well, I've learned a great deal about the circumstances that people who come to the
common face by accompanying them into the hospital and seeing the the immediate, the
immediate dynamics of suspicion and defensiveness, that just gets exaggerated and
builds up and builds up to something that's ridiculous. But there's so much of controlling
that system. And it's, and this was something that I learned in my my doctoral work, it is
structured for that control. It is structured like that. So that was the question....
Kathleen Clark 1:13:00
story of a teaching experience that you Well, I can't go into the experience without
divulging you know, people. So just skip over that one. I mean, I've had experiences where
I've just had a keep going over and over just a terrible experience in a student, you know, a
student, we had a, we had a person from the community come, and the student just
contradicted the person's experience. And I didn't know what to do with it. I didn't, I just
kind of freaked out. I didn't say anything, which was absolutely the wrong thing. But I
couldn't figure out what to say when I was so flabbergasted that somebody would be so
disrespectful, you know, but they were from the same country, they had their own
experience, which was totally class different. So I've made some bad mistakes, do you
know what you would have done? Have a thought whenever I've done
R
Ruth Enestvedt 1:14:01
I think I would have asked the the guest to speak more about what she saw. Because the
student clearly was not open to see it. And I that's okay. But I want the other students to
know what that what that person experience. And she, you know, it was she was giving
sort of summary of things in her life. So she didn't go into and I'm sorry, didn't ask her to
Oral history with Ruth Enestvedt
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elaborate.
Kathleen Clark 1:14:33
So another key theoretical concept you established with the rules of thumb, thumb for
nursing practice, while engaging in marginalized settings. What can you tell me about the
rules of thumb and how did you come up with?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 1:14:46
Well, I would kind of hang this on to my idea about what nurses need to do and be more
confident about what they know. This just came out of reflecting on my experience, my
experience I have my education and my experience with people. You know, that's where it
came from. And of course you revise it and revise it, look at them and think what else
could you add? Or what is too much? What is the wrong way to say this? What? You know?
So you it's just a draft and a draft and a draft and a redraft. But it's coming out of
reflection, on my own experience, and just trusting that there is some value in that. So
when the first time I presented that model, and Sue Nash said to me, Oh, my gosh, are you
going to publish that? Well, I just expected because it wasn't based on research, that it
somehow wasn't legitimate. But you know, we've had enough experience, we reflect on it,
and reflect on it sincerely not through the reference of some other scholars or something,
but just how do we put words at what we know. That's what I did. Thanks to James Scott,
who already had, you know, come up with the idea to have rules of thumb, but
Kathleen Clark 1:16:19
where did the accompagnement come from? etc.
R
Ruth Enestvedt 1:16:27
that that certainly wasn't mine that's used in I think, a number, places now. I can't really
remember now. But I like the idea that that's, that's really that's really a lot of skills and be
able to be at that position.
Kathleen Clark 1:16:45
But, just because you always talk about the cultural guides, and like, the Oaxaca
immersion, and really breaking bread together. So that always kind of reminded me of
that. So I didn't know if it was a Gustavo thing, or
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R
Ruth Enestvedt 1:16:59
Yeah, it could have been, you know, this kind of all this stuff, kind of just get like, Is there
anything that isn't plagiarized?
K
Kaija Freborg 1:17:11
Can I ask another question? Since we're on that topic? Do you see the model morphing at
all? or changing or being applied in new ways? Or are there any hopes? regarding its use?
Or publications?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 1:17:26
Yeah, I can see, absolutely, I would love to see it, you know, added to develop more, I think
one of the things that really struck me in the evaluation book that I have had been so
dedicated believe so firmly in local context, but the idea that you can be innovative in a
local context, but if it's going to really have impact, you've got to be able to bridge it to
something that is going to get farther out there, you know. So I think it's, I worked at the
University with a woman who would go on television and talk about it. Whoa, okay,
there's a way to do it. You don't have to necessarily change what you're doing. But you
have to be open to giving what you do a little publicity, you know, so if you can't do that
hook up with somebody who can or, you know, because it has to reach a wider audience,
or it doesn't have to, it doesn't have to reach a right. But that's an A place where I think it
could go, not that it's going to be replicable. That's not the point. But it could help give
people ideas about how to do things. Give other nurses a little confidence to get out of
the medical model a little bit. Give people I guess, you know, I just that I think, one of the
things I used to like to tell students and see I could go on and on, I used to like telling
them, you know, you're not doing therapy here. That's a psychiatric model. And that's not
our model. We are not psychiatrists, so get off that therapy idea. You don't have to do
therapeutic communication, not to say the right thing, you know. So to you just do not, it's
not your role.
Kathleen Clark 1:19:24
One thing I think that I always struggle with, as a teacher that I think you excel that so
much is, you often came in very unstructured and come in with a PowerPoint with a
hidden agenda of what the outcomes are going to be. You didn't over prepare, you came
in students read what you wanted them to read or watch what you assigned, and you
Oral history with Ruth Enestvedt
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shaped conversations in a very meaningful way. And allowed students to always feel not
only heard but what they had said had To the conversation, even if other students were
struggling to make that connection. So did you? I mean, did you have something in your
mind that you always went back to? Or was that just your natural skill?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 1:20:14
was very kind of you to say, I should come a little more prepared. But it never worked for
me, because I couldn't. I couldn't manipulate people into what if I wasn't that clever, or
strategic, but what I did, I mean, I picked readings. And I really wanted to go into those
readings. And I would read fresh myself about those readings, so that when discussion
happened, I could connect it to the reading, because it was all fresh in my mind. So I
would do that. And I, but I was, I mean, I can think of times when, you know, somebody just
really criticized the book, the whole book, you know, just dismissed it completely. And I
wasn't ready for because of course, I believe. What's the matter with you can see this, you
know, so instead of saying something mean, and nasty to the student? I wouldn't say
anything, I wouldn't have anything to say. But, you know, I don't know. I don't know where
that came from, I guess, I guess, good students. That's where it came from, actually,
students who prepared and students who came and took it seriously, and wanted, wanted
some discussion. And I know, there were times when I couldn't stop people who
monopolized conversation, I should have done a better job of that. Because I think that
can be hard, or draw people who, you know, were quiet in class, and they knew there was
so much going on in their mind.
Kathleen Clark 1:22:00
Well, I think that's all the questions that I had for you, Dr. Freborg. Do not. Is there any?
Anything you want to tell us that we didn't ask about?
R
Ruth Enestvedt 1:22:10
I talked way too much
Kathleen Clark 1:22:17
Thank you so much for this go through the consent. Yep. That's very rich, and will be very
meaningful for future generations to come. And it makes me want to even go back and do
a whole nother interview with you. To hear more especially about some of the stuff that
along the lines of the trans cultural, advanced practice, transcultural nursing skills and
Oral history with Ruth Enestvedt
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things like that, but maybe that'll be a future segment. But as far as now that we're at the
end, would you be comfortable doing the oral consent now? Sure. Okay. So I was I need for
the record is to make sure that you confirm that you consent to being interviewed and
having the interview recorded and stored at Augsburg University, which we made
available to the public. That's Yes,
R
Ruth Enestvedt 1:23:09
I consent. Okay, do great.
Kathleen Clark 1:23:12
Well, thank you so much for your time.
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Show less
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017
Tue, 3/9 2:43PM
26:39
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, homelessness, corners, stay, shelters, bridges, homeless, place, hospital, money,
criminal record, northwestern, women, housing, commons, wet, streets, care, seizures, augsburg
SPEAKERS
Mr X, Kathle... Show more
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017
Tue, 3/9 2:43PM
26:39
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, homelessness, corners, stay, shelters, bridges, homeless, place, hospital, money,
criminal record, northwestern, women, housing, commons, wet, streets, care, seizures, augsburg
SPEAKERS
Mr X, Kathleen Clark, Jenna Nelson
Kathleen Clark 00:00
So thank you for joining us today. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of
Nursing at Augsburg University. I just want to start off by saying Do you consent to being
interviewed and having the interview recorded and stored at Augsburg University, which
will be made available to the public?
M
Mr X 00:19
I understand that, yes, okay
Kathleen Clark 00:22
All right, and then Jenna Nelson is also with us a graduate nursing student.
M
Mr X 00:28
Yep.
Kathleen Clark 00:28
Thanks, so she'll just be helping with some of the questions, and what not so, Mr. X, that's
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017
Page 1 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
how you would like to be identified. Why don't you start off telling us a little bit about
yourself?
M
Mr X 00:42
Yeah, I was born, and raised in Colorado, and I lived in Iowa City for about 15 years, and I
got sent up here about over 20 years ago for treatment. Flunked that, worked up here for
a while, lost my job, and I've been up here ever since then, and homeless for 30 years, over
30 years, 30 years, 40 years, living under bridges, abandoned buildings, motels, sometimes
shelters.
Kathleen Clark 01:31
That's a long time to navigate living out on the streets that takes a lot of strength. What
brings you that strength, like how do you? Like how do you stay outside?
M
Mr X 01:45
Yeah, it was hard. It was very hard to sleep outside under bridges because sometimes you
picked the wrong bridge, and you get beat up, get robbed, so I just found certain people I
liked and could trust, and hung with them, and they were like a family. We took care of
each other, and kind of shared everything, and looked after each other.
Kathleen Clark 02:17
Wow, that’s important. So now who would you say your family is? Now as far as your
family when you were staying under the bridge and now you're not saying outside?
Correct?
M
Mr X 02:31
Yeah, I know most of them passed away, and the ones who are still alive are at the same
place I'm at, the wet-house.
Kathleen Clark 02:40
Okay
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017
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M
Mr X 02:43
So we still communicate, but we don't really stay together like we used to. We just don't
communicate as much as we used to.
Kathleen Clark 02:53
Sure. So when you say you live at a wet-house what is that, what is that like for you to live
in a wet-house?
M
Mr X 03:02
A little bit away it's a place for alcoholics. You could stay there until you die, or find
housing. Some people can't get into housing cuz they have criminal records. Felonies,
some got more felonies than I ever seen my life. It ain't funny, and they can't get any
housing so that's our last option.le do you find that it's like a good place to live? Or would
you rather not live there?
Kathleen Clark 03:27
So, when you're living there are people, do you find that it's like a good place to live or
would you rather not live there?
M
Mr X 03:37
Well, that's a hard question to ask. In some ways it's good, in some ways it's not too
pleasant. It's a place where I can lay my head, sleep, get cleaned up, and take a bath.
There are some people who I don’t like there and there is always some kind of problems,
fights breaking out, you know, “I don't like you, why should I like you? I don't wanna share
nothing with you, and just leave me alone.” Yeah, sometimes it's always a nice break now.
Kathleen Clark 04:12
Oh wow
M
Mr X 04:24
That's my second time I've been there
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017
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Kathleen Clark 04:28
Did you, what happened were you there, and you found different housing, or you were
there, and you got kicked out?
M
Mr X 04:37
The first time I was there I stayed there for two years say, that was two years, yeah two
years and some dude wanted to steal my bottle and I turned around and broke his nose.
They came running out and they told me I'm kicked out and he's gonna stay and I was
back on the streets for a year and a half. I came back under the bridges, convention
center, band houses again, occasionally the shelters, but I didn't care for the shelters
because they didn't like me and I didn't like them and I just stayed outside.
Kathleen Clark 05:20
I remember when you were staying outside in-between your living at the wet-house you
had sometimes where you felt like police were targeting you at times.
M
Mr X 05:38
Yeah, yep.
Kathleen Clark 05:39
Can you tell me more about that?
M
Mr X 05:42
There are some places where I used to sleep behind Central Lutheran, but other people
found out about it and they were coming in there and throwing crack parties, drinking,
and smoking, and drinking, and just having the cops come over, and they would come up
to me. Like I don't know these people okay. Well you’re here you're not supposed to be on
church property so you gotta leave and they're going, “We don’t wanna see ya on church
property no more.”
Kathleen Clark 06:21
Wow. So how when did you start coming to the health commons?
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017
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M
Mr X 06:34
I would say about 15 years ago, 15, 10, maybe 10, 15 years ago.
Kathleen Clark 06:40
And how did you first find out about it?
M
Mr X 06:43
I just stumbled upon it. This is before the nurses getting here. There was just only a clothes
closet and lunch, nothing else.
Kathleen Clark 06:58
You've been coming for quite some time. What keeps you coming back to the health
common?
M
Mr X 07:03
Well, you.
Kathleen Clark 07:06
Well, I haven't been here that long.
M
Mr X 07:08
No, you've been here for what? 9 years, 10?
Kathleen Clark 07:12
Yeah, so what was it about the nurses that
M
Mr X 07:15
How you help out. People need something you're right there for them, aspirins, cough
drops, stuff like that, blood pressure.
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017
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Kathleen Clark 07:27
And if there was something that you would consider changing about the health commons,
what would you change?
M
Mr X 07:33
I'm happy the way it is right now. Very happy satisfied.
Kathleen Clark 07:38
Well, I think us being in a trailer is an obvious, you know, challenge at times, but is there a
story you could share about your favorite time at the health Commons?
M
Mr X 07:52
Coming here?
Kathleen Clark 07:53
Yeah, like a good story or a memorable story.
M
Mr X 07:59
Not really, no, except meeting you that was about it. Well, the first time I met we started
talking the first maybe the first day or the second day you were here maybe weeks
afterwards.
Kathleen Clark 08:14
Yeah, that's true. And slowly over time, you talked more and more.
M
Mr X 08:18
Yeah got to know each other, yeah.
Kathleen Clark 08:21
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017
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Yeah, I think another big thing that we need to know more about too is working in
inpatient in the hospitals, and the ERs, and all that kind of stuff, what are some things that
nurses should know if they're taking care of somebody who is homeless?
M
Mr X 08:42
You just have alcoholic seizures. I've had quite a few here. And you know what to do. They
weren't severe. Moderate seizures. And you know what to do even not even want to go
there. Because I go to the hospital and they shipped me out to detox. Be straight out with
me for three, four days.
Kathleen Clark 09:10
When you go to the hospital, do you feel like most of the time people treat you with
respect or do you feel like maybe you're stereotyped against?
M
Mr X 09:22
I don’t know anymore. I like going to Abbott Northwestern if there’s anything wrong with
me. I’d rather go to Abbott Northwestern because they're more compassionate and
considerate of my health. HCMC they just tell ya to shut-up and we're gonna strap you
down and I need to go to the bathroom we don't care yeah so if I do have any kind of
health problems yeah Abbott Northwestern. That's good to know. As far as homelessness
in general, what is a big issue that you think that people need to know and be aware of
that should be changed? It’s hard to find places these days to camp out. The first two
times I did it they were pretty easy to find, the third time and it was a little bit difficult
because I always went back to my old places and they turned into condos, hospitals,
restaurants, penthouses, but this last time it was hard to find and do anything.
Kathleen Clark 10:53
Being that you're from Colorado, and I understand you came to Minnesota, how come you
didn't go back to Colorado and you stayed in Minnesota?
M
Mr X 11:02
I went back home. But that was about 20 years ago, or 20 years ago. When I went back
there, most people were dead. Think it's kind of strange to people that grew up with were
either dead, moved out or in prison. So I said, well, there's nothing left here for me. And I
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017
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came back here because a guy reminds me of Colorado in some ways that don't sit well
enough stay here.
Kathleen Clark 11:37
Is there anything you want to share about your birth parents or where you grew up? You
don't have to, it’s up to you.
M
Mr X 11:43
I just grew up in foster homes, juvenile centers, foster homes. My parents and I there was
no communication with them at all. Except for out of my three brothers with me no
communications.
Kathleen Clark 12:02
That had to be really hard.
M
Mr X 12:06
I was used to. Because I beat up my brothers, my brothers were beat me. And my dad
would come home and beat the shit out of me and take off and disappear for a month.
They never did look for me. Never did. Yeah. When they tried to pick me back check off
again. It's like, fuck them. I had no communication with these people.
Kathleen Clark 12:43
Do you ever keep in contact with the foster families that you live with?
M
Mr X 12:49
Some of them have passed away. But when I did go home, they would choose to live. And
they would just wonder about my whereabouts. And I told them I'm still in Minnesota. You
were pretty good decent parents, or foster parents. Even though you're collecting money,
I knew that. You're getting money to get paid to watch your roommate. Feed me and
clothe me.
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017
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Kathleen Clark 13:18
How about you Jenna? Do you have any questions that I'm not asking or you could think
about?
J
Jenna Nelson 13:25
I guess I Where do you think you find like the most resources for like, do you go to
churches a lot when you were when you didn't have like a shelter to get food or health
care?
M
Mr X 13:35
No, at the wet house they feed you over there. They got a shower, laundry you can wash
clothes they're nothing but sometimes it's good sometimes it's not worth eating
Kathleen Clark 13:49
Do you have a one-bedroom apartment or room? How does that work?
M
Mr X 13:54
Rooms like this, a little bit bigger okay. So I got my TV and my clothes there anything I
have it's there
Kathleen Clark 14:05
Do you feel like, because I know there's a big debate about wet-houses using taxpayer
dollars to house individuals, but the long-term financial savings are supposed to be pretty
remarkable. Do you think that since you've been in a wet-house you've not been admitted
as much to a hospital or gone to detox as much, do you feel like you've been able to more
have a home and not go into those other services much?
M
Mr X 14:34
Yea, I do I get my own housing, but since I got a criminal record that's pretty hard to do
now because I used to get my own places. I mean just like that and some organizations
came by and looked me over and said, “well you got a criminal record? We’ll help ya,” but
they never did. They would come by, and just chitchat, and chitchat, and chitchat. They
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017
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didn’t look into nothing. I just want to come by chit chat. So I just said, “don't waste my
time don't come by and just a chit chat every week, it's mundane, you're wasting your
time, you’re wasting my time, just a chit chat about nothin
Kathleen Clark 15:29
So when you know, you know, you want to get your own place? Is there people who help
you a lot with that? Or do you have to apply for things kind of independently?
M
Mr X 15:40
I don’t know how they found me. I really don't know how these housing organizations knew
about me, but they just came out of the blue and told me to come by and give them a call
and they'll come by. Most of them were up in Saint Paul, and yea, all three of them were
up in Saint Paul.
Kathleen Clark 16:02
As far as like applying for health insurance, how is that?
M
Mr X 16:07
What is that insurance?
Kathleen Clark 16:08
Yeah, like if you were to apply for health insurance. I don't know if you have health
insurance or not, but is the process pretty complex and difficult or is it for other people to
help with that, how has that process been?
M
Mr X 16:20
I've seen people get a place where I'm at right now. I got set up at the wet-house I talked
to a couple of people, and they got a place just in a month. I hope I've been working with
them for months on end and it's not leading up to nowhere so congratulations to you, but
this really sucks, it really sucks. They say are you jealous, and I say, yeah I should be a little
bit jealous maybe you don't well I think they take mostly people whose more mentally ill,
more unstable, don't take them for us because they look at me well you've been homeless
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 10 of 15
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for all your life, you know how to take care of yourself, so there's nothing wrong with you.
If it was maybe we could help you, but you seem reasonable enough you could take care
of yourself.
Kathleen Clark 17:22
So being that you have you know you have a history of seizures and what not do you have
health insurance right now.
M
Mr X 17:28
Uhuh, Medica.
Kathleen Clark 17:30
You do? Medica and do you have to apply for that quite frequently or is it something
that…
M
Mr X 17:34
No, they came out of the blue too because I was getting Blue Cross and Blue Shield then I
got terminated from that then I got medical assistance and they said I over qualify for
that so then I got Medicaid and they help if I need to get a bus card you know to my
appointments, it helps.
Kathleen Clark 18:04
That's good, that's awesome.
M
Mr X 18:07
They used to help me get a leg braces, but they can't do that and well they cut that off,
they cut somethings off.
Kathleen Clark 18:18
What do you think homelessness will look like? 20 years from now?
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 11 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
M
Mr X 18:24
I hope I don't I hope I'm not around this.
Kathleen Clark 18:30
What would you say your biggest source of strength is? What's your biggest source of
strength right now? That what brings you the most strength?
M
Mr X 18:43
Well, my friends particularly the ones that listen to what I have to what I say. Yeah, the
ones I could talk to.
Kathleen Clark 18:49
The ones that you stay under the bridges with and everything. That's wonderful, that's
good that you have that.
M
Mr X 18:54
Like I said, we don't mingle like we used to, but we do. We do.
Kathleen Clark 19:01
So can you tell me a little bit about panhandling?
M
Mr X 19:06
I spend most of my time signing. It's hard to do that, stand on a corner with a sign trying
to make something, money, food, clothes. On a given day I can make some money, some
days food, other days nothing. On my good day I made a hundred dollars one day. I
thought it was a ten. She folded it up as a ten and I stood out there for maybe two hours
snowing, raining some lady just popped me a ten and no cars no nothing I unfolded it that
was a hundred dollar bill.
Kathleen Clark 19:57
So what would you say? Like, are people usually pretty respectful? Or are they rude?
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 12 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
M
Mr X 20:06
They’re respectful, they’ll roll down the windows and say I'm sorry I don't have this but
here's a pair of gloves or I don't well that works thank you hygiene products gift cards or
other times over those roll down the window say get a job. I tell them this is my job, so
technical. I tell them same thing. I know that most people are considerate. If they have an
apple, or an orange, change, a cup of coffee, and I go that’s too bad, but, yeah.
Kathleen Clark 20:59
I know you have so much knowledge and so much experience with your length of
homelessness I there a topic that people don't usually talk about that needs awareness
like our you know is there too much violence against women on the streets are there like
like for example how does it work let's say you're on the busiest intersection and shower
traffic how is it decided who gets those corners?
M
Mr X 21:36
We have to take turns by Basilica around Institute. I don't go in that area because there's
maybe about 20 people waiting to get in there went out 20 people maybe 15 10 and
they're just standing around there so they give you that time limit from what I'm told they
give me a 30 minutes 45 minutes if you're not making nothing they’ll tell you to get off the
corner and say next
Kathleen Clark 22:08
Do you have to share your money when things like that happen?
M
Mr X 22:11
Oh no. There's somebody down there all the time kind of regulating? Who's in and who's
out. Is Yeah, down by Basilica and down there. There's a lot of fights over there.
Kathleen Clark 22:25
Like I have heard women say that they exchange sex for corners at certain hours.
M
Mr X 22:31
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 13 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Well, I heard that too. Yeah.
Kathleen Clark 22:35
I've also heard some discussions around certain corners like sometimes it's people who are
more using heroin and then another corner there might be more people who are drinking
alcohol.
M
Mr X 22:48
Yeah, yeah. That's true too. I don't shoot up I just have a few quick bumps to get me warm,
give me enough courage to get out there and do it just doing it sober is kind of
embarrassing on why am I out here this is embarrassing I need stuff to there get you
motivated to do it. MX: Yeah, if you go down by Basilica you’ll see quite a few people
waitin and hit those corners at Basilica. I guess that I'll go in that area I got my own little
area well there's only me and there's two other people, and we’ll work in series of each
other well hey I'm done do you want to take over you can have it.
Kathleen Clark 23:49
Let's say I was to become homeless tomorrow what is one thing of advice you would give
me if I was a newly homeless individual if I was a newly homeless person what advice
would you give me?
M
Mr X 24:02
I would tell you where to go like which place to go to like who can really help you like
central Lutheran. I would say Mary Jo’s, but I heard that kind of a turn over a new leaf
they don't help out as much they used to the Red Cross some of the churches st. Stephens
Simpsons they'll help how to get situated, St. Olaf’s.
Kathleen Clark 24:36
I know there's like all this talk about all these ends or plans and homelessness. What
would your plan to end homelessness look like?
M
Mr X 24:44
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 14 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Look like no there always will be homelessness because I know a friend she's doing that
but she's working for Homeless Connect trying to get people out of homelessness and
stuff and I'll don’t see nothing in it, I don't see no any improvements I tell her that too yeah
there’s always gonna be homelessness. She says, yea well we’re tryin. Yea, you’re tryin, but
I see more homeless people then I used to see 20, 30 years ago. The first time I didn't see
women with kids on the corners trying to survive and now every time I’m outside I'll see
woman with kids trying to sign tryin to tryin to make something. First time, no I never seen
it, now I've seen even more women with kids being homeless and trying to sign do what
they gotta do. I have some money occasionally I'll do it for them. I'll help them out. Other
times if it’s a dude no I didn’t it, I ain't gonna help you man cuz I know what you're gonna
do with your money. You're gonna go out and blow it all get drunk get high no I'd rather
help a woman with a kid than help you.
Kathleen Clark 26:23
Well, thank you so much for your time. Mr. X, you've answered so many important
questions and shared so much so we appreciate that.
M
Mr X 26:33
Thank you.
Oral History Interview with "Mr.X," 2017 Page 15 of 15
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Show less
Oral History Interview with Merrilee
Brown, 2018
Tue, 3/9 5:01PM
42:42
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, nurse, commons, student, people, health, opportunity, dnp, talk, nursing, guests,
homelessness, years, orthopedics, space, person, care, teaching, bev, dnp program
SPEAKERS
Merrilee Brown,... Show more
Oral History Interview with Merrilee
Brown, 2018
Tue, 3/9 5:01PM
42:42
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, nurse, commons, student, people, health, opportunity, dnp, talk, nursing, guests,
homelessness, years, orthopedics, space, person, care, teaching, bev, dnp program
SPEAKERS
Merrilee Brown, Kathleen Clark
Kathleen Clark 00:00
All right. Well thank you for joining us today for another edition of the oral history project.
We are in the health Commons and the nursing department. My name is Katie Clark. I'm
the director of the Health Commons at Central and an assistant professor. Could you
please introduce yourself for the recording?
M
Merrilee Brown 00:21
My name is Merrilee Brown.
Kathleen Clark 00:23
Great. Thank you for joining me today. Before I begin, I just want to confirm that you have
consented to being interviewed, and that interview recording will be stored at Augsburg
University, which will be made available to the public.
M
Merrilee Brown 00:37
Yes. Great.
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Kathleen Clark 00:39
So can you tell me a little bit about your current role or what are what have your
experiences been with Augsburg?
M
Merrilee Brown 00:49
Um, I have been a student at Augsburg both in the undergrad program and in the DNP
program. And I'm currently adjunct faculty. And I taught 10 for them.
Kathleen Clark 01:08
Great. So can you tell me a little bit about where you were born and who you called
family?
M
Merrilee Brown 01:17
I was born in Columbus, Ohio. And family for me was my mom, my dad, my brother,
probably my grandma and grandpa on my mother's side, although that goes way back to
early childhood. And on my father's side, after my grandma died, my grandpa remarried a
second time and I became very close to his second wife. She was a nurse. And I think that
may have been part of the beginnings to my wanting to become a nurse. She was a
nursing supervisor at mom's midway hospital, I think, way back in the day.
Kathleen Clark 02:13
So you mentioned that part of your educational background to become a nurse was at
Augsburg, but can you tell me a little bit more in depth about your pathway to become a
nurse?
M
Merrilee Brown 02:23
Sure.I had polio when I was four years old. And at that time, they didn't know for sure what
I had. So I was taken to the University of Minnesota, we had just moved to Minneapolis
from Cincinnati, Ohio. And which was probably a great place to be in the United States, if
you were going to have polio, because I probably spent about five years in and out of
Sister Kenny, I had correct several corrective surgeries. And then, my rehab was that Sister
Kenny, and my mother said to me, that I always had said I was going to be a nurse, she
said, from the time I was four years old, I said I was going to be a nurse. Well, interestingly
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enough, I was four at the time that I had polio. So there may have been some connection
there. And what I remember from that period of time was that the nurses did not feel sorry
for me, there were times that I didn't want to get out of bed, or I didn't want to go to
physical therapy. But they pretty much insisted that I was going to get out of bed, and
that I could do my physical therapy and learn to walk again. And so I think in the
beginning of all of that, I was resentful, but of course, when you look back over your life,
you see that, you know, they were really the angels in the beginning of my life that just
kind of spurred me on. And then when I went into nursing school, I started working as a
nurse at St. Mary's Hospital, which is interestingly enough across the street from Augsburg
or was at that point in time. And I worked in orthopedics, and that was because the
orthopedic surgeon that I had back in the day said you need to be a nurse and you need
to work in orthopedics and so there I was, and then I was the head nurse on the
orthopaedic floor, and I had two assistant head nurses, and there was one assistant head
nurse that I just loved the way she thought she would always step back from a situation,
and just kind of process what was going on. And I just like the way she thought she was a
graduate of Augsburg. And so this was like 1985. And there was some type of early
legislation talking about the minimum level of entry for an RN was going to be the
baccalaureate degree. And they were going to try to pass that by 1990. And so I thought,
okay, no one's going to tell me that I have to go back to school. So I'm going to go back
to school now before that happens, and get my four year degree. So I think that was those
were the pieces that lead me to Augsburg the first time.
Kathleen Clark 05:44
Wow. Wow. Okay. So then you're in orthopedics, you got your BSN. And then what's next?
M
Merrilee Brown 05:52
Well, I worked at St. Mary's, for 17 years. And then I was actually recruited away and went
to HCMC. And I was the manager on the orthopedic unit at Hennepin and I worked there
for another 10 years. And then during that time, I was thinking, I think I'm ready to go back
to school again. And at that point, I don't think Augsburg had their master's program their
leadership program up and running yet, but I was ready to go back to school. And so then
I decided that I would go to St. Mary's University, and I would get my degree in Health and
Human Services, Human Services Administration. So I started there. And then,
interestingly enough, public health director position opened in Scott County, which is
where I, where I lived. And I thought, Oh, this is interesting. I don't know anything about
my own backyard, because I drove downtown Minneapolis for 26 years. And thought I
would apply for the position now mind you, I loved my position in orthopedics. And
obviously, that was what I had known forever, and applied for the position and was
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offered the position and then went to my boss and said, Now what do I do, because I love
being here. But this is just really kind of a whole new opportunity for me. And so I left
Hennepin and started in public health in Scott County. And so I worked there for the next
18 years. And then probably it was just a few years before I was getting ready to retire. I
was thinking, Okay, I think I need to go back to school one more time. And so, obviously,
the only place to look at for me at that point was Augsburg. And so the DNP and
transcultural nursing leadership really seemed to interest me it seemed like it was just like
going home. And so I was accepted into the DNP program. And I do have to say that
having my Master's in Health and Human Services Administration and working in public
health was like a really wonderful fit. So I think that was where I was where I was supposed
to be, obviously, because that all worked out. That all just worked out really well. I loved
working for the county. That was pretty, pretty interesting working in local government.
But I had worked in both a private hospital and a public hospital. So I knew someone
about the policies and politics that go along with government. But while I was in the DNP
program, I became very interested in learning more about the health Commons, and still
have the opportunity to work in the health comments while I was a student. And when I
finished my DNP I was just getting ready to retire. And at that point in time, I was asked if I
would be interested in maybe co teaching a course, which was the community health
course in the BSN program for 10. And for lepen. Oh, that's a really long answer.
Kathleen Clark 09:42
No, that's a perfect answer. So circling back when you were in your BSN was the health
Commons established.
M
Merrilee Brown 09:50
It was not established. In fact, we never talked even about the health commons and I
think I graduated why no, I graduated in 1980. denied. But I don't think it had been talked
about at that point in time. But I will have to say that nurses need to have mentors. And I
actually had two mentors because I was such a piece of work. And Bev Nelson, and Pam
Wisse, were both my mentors, Pam taught for 410-411, or whatever was called back then.
And Bob was the chair of the department. And so they were mentors for me for probably
the next 20 years. So it hadn't it hadn't been started, but because I had, that was, you
know, I mean, it was it was a professional, but it was also a personal relationship. It
became more a personal relationship over the years. But Bev would talk about the nursing
center. And I would go I had gone down with her a couple of times to the nursing center.
And I would have to say that in 2003, in Scott County, we had an opportunity, there was a
budget shortfall that year, and a number of stakeholders involved in health care got
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together to talk about how this is going to impact the community of Scott County. And I
remember talking about the fact that Augsburg had a nursing center. And maybe we
could replicate that nursing center out here in Scott County. And so in 2003, we did that.
And that's called the river valley nursing center.
Kathleen Clark 11:42
And that eventually turned into your DNP project. Correct.
M
Merrilee Brown 11:46
It was part of the DNP project.
Kathleen Clark 11:48
Wow. Yeah, that is really awesome. So did wouldn't Bev would tell you about the health
commons. Did she talk much about why she wanted to start it or any of her thoughts
behind that at all?
M
Merrilee Brown 12:07
Well, I think she had, you know, I think she had a real love for the was of the least of us.
And I think she was a member of Central Lutheran Church. And I think she had been
involved in their clothing closet and saw over time, the need to expand that concept. And,
and at that time, was there much of a transcultural emphasis, or do you know much about
Kathleen Clark 12:40
Did you ever talk about when that emphasis really came about?
M
Merrilee Brown 12:44
Not that I recall.
Kathleen Clark 12:50
And, yeah, so I'm always interested to learn a little bit more about that, since our program
is so unique as far as the transcultural emphasis, but, you know, that's okay. So as far as
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your work at the health commons so you began working with health comments as a
student? What did it look like at that time? And who, who was all there as far as faculty
members?
M
Merrilee Brown 13:19
when I, when I started volunteering there, Katie Clark was overseeing the health
Commons and Katherine Baumgartner. Were the two faculty that were there in June
Sand, long term, volunteer, amazing woman also. We the people that I was working with,
Kathleen Clark 13:48
and What do you remember about the space at that time?
M
Merrilee Brown 13:52
It was downstairs at Central Lutheran Church, it was right next to the clothing closet. And
also across from the, I think the job there was an area for job opportunities. So with the
three departments were all kind of downstairs. And this space was just kind of one large
space that had at one end supplies and people just wanted to get some personal care
items or come in for some coffee and sit around the table and visit and in the back
portion. There were comfortable chairs and an opportunity to have your feet washed or a
little bit of privacy if you wanted to talk with a nurse and ask some questions or get some
advice or just needed some one on one time.
Kathleen Clark 14:50
So in your opinion, in that space, or I know we're in the trailer this year. Hold on real quick.
It didn't work. Now it's working. Let me restart. Okay, so in your opinion, how do you think
as nurses, we can create a welcoming space at the health commons.
M
Merrilee Brown 15:12
I think the first thing that our guests see is someone that has a smiling face, and honestly
appears welcoming, and genuine in how they look at someone being able to
communicate in a way that helps them in finding what it is they might be here for, or
maybe just explaining what the comments is about. For them, maybe it's the first time
that they've been there, maybe you maybe you've never seen them before. Just letting
them know that it's okay to just come on in that it's, it's a safe place. And maybe one of
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the first things is to offer coffee, I guess that's kind of what we do. That's kind of our
culture, although that's universal in many cultures. So I think just offering that and an
opportunity to maybe sit down or some of the first things that we can do when they come
in.
Kathleen Clark 16:18
So how do you begin to develop relationships with people in this space?
M
Merrilee Brown 16:24
Well, I think you have to realize that, you know, these folks are these guests of ours are
certainly in transitional times. And this may be the only opportunity that we ever have to
connect with them. So I think each experience is unique unto itself. But I do think
developing trusting relationships and having an opportunity to have a guest talk about
some of their concerns, or some of the trauma that they've been through, I think takes
time that happens over time, I think they need to see the same person or at least a very
welcoming, open person. That isn't there necessarily to ask more questions, but maybe
just to clarify, or just affirm what they're saying, or just maybe stop talking, and just listen,
and let them tell their story.
Kathleen Clark 17:29
Well, and you mentioned affirming, and I and I feel like affirming is a big piece that people
often don't get when they're living a life on the streets. So what are some skills or some
thoughts that you have when somebody is telling their story, as part as part of pulling
those strings out when you're having a conversation?
M
Merrilee Brown 17:50
Well, I think we have to remember that our guests are extremely resilient. Many have been
in this lifestyle for a long period of time. And we maybe don't understand that. We can't
appreciate why they want to work like that. But that's not our, that's not our job, our job is
to just show them that they're welcome in this space, and it's a safe space. And I think we
just affirm or listen quietly, to the stories that they want to tell us or what it is they want to
share without making comments or saying, seeing things like you should or you know, it
would be different. But just accepting people kind of where they are right now. Like I say,
you know, this is quite a journey for them. And this may be the only opportunity that you
have to see them as this one time. And just make that time right now meaningful for both
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of you. Because if you can look past, the differences are much more alike than we are
different than these are our brothers and our sisters.
Kathleen Clark 19:12
Beautiful. So what does accompany mean people mean to you?
M
Merrilee Brown 19:19
I think accompany people means to just accept them right now at this very moment where
they are smelly, stinky, swearing, intoxicated, high. They may lack any kind of social skills.
But we don't know what their life has been like. And we don't know where they came from
five minutes ago and we have no idea What the journeys been like for them to just get
here? Because I think that takes a lot of courage for them to just come through the door.
And so I think it's just too Welcome to smile. Maybe, maybe they need a hug, maybe
nobody has touched them. But that to you need to kind of feel out to be sure that that's
okay. Because not everybody finds touch does welcome in. So you need to be careful
about that or, or ask for a new, you might make mistakes in your conversation and you
apologize for that. And you just say I'm just I'm just trying to learn. And I think if you're
genuine about that, I think people can see that we just want to walk beside.
Kathleen Clark 20:48
So when you are meeting with visitors at the health commons, what are the typical health
concerns of people really come in with?
M
Merrilee Brown 20:58
I think their health concerns revolve a lot around skin conditions. People usually have
some kind of a cough. Or oftentimes they'll come in because they know they have high
blood pressure, and they're coming in to have their blood pressure checked. Maybe
they're having some difficulty with a medication they're taking, maybe they're not sure if
they need to be seen in a doctor's office. They know that if they come to the health
commons, that there will be a nurse there that can talk to person advice. Sometimes they
just have some general concerns. And they just they just want to talk to someone that's
knowledgeable, someone that's safe, someone that isn't going to talk down to them.
Some of them maybe we'll even ask them, What have you been doing? Because that may
be something better than anything we can offer. And I think we need to be open to the
knowledge that they come with him to the health commons, and we need to be sure and
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include that and whatever type of plan or discussion we have with them.
Kathleen Clark 22:24
So you have mentioned so many remarkable things. One thing that I am wondering about
is your perspective as both being a student and now facilitating and teaching students
when you're in this space. So what is what role have students really played in being at the
health commons? And what would it kind of look like for a student when they come in?
M
Merrilee Brown 22:51
Well, you know, you've seen one student, you've seen one student, they all come with a
different kinds of skill set. There are some students that come into the health commons
that have actually been homeless themselves, or have experienced other trauma related
to homelessness. And there are other students that are somewhat has attempted, even
sometimes fearful, because they've never even seen a homeless person. So they're not
really sure what to expect. They have some ideas of what that would look like. So I think
you as you know, as a faculty person, I think you need to spend some time with the
students when they first arrived to see what their history or experiences so that you will
get a better understanding of where they're coming from. And then I think it's really
important to show every single student, the model of the health commons, because I think
that's really important. So many of these students are coming from a two year program,
where they have learned to be experts in clinical skills, and hundreds they understand the
medical model, and you know, how to implement standard physician orders. And so this is
this is a whole different way of caring, because the first thing you need to kind of talk to
them about is, this is a whole different model of practice. And maybe for most They only
know the medical model, and they need to understand that maybe not everybody wants
to be fixed. And, you know, we think we can look at one person and say exactly what they
need to have done. And so I think we need to be sure that we talk to them about including
someone's strengths and try to see what When the students meet with some of our guests
that they can kind of draw out the strengths that these people bring with them. And then
afterwards, I think it's really important to have a debriefing session to talk about, what did
you experience? What was that? Like? How was that different than what you thought
coming in? Because you literally can see a transformation of this student in a two hour
period of time, one session of help.
Kathleen Clark 25:32
And so, is that a reflection that they verbally provide? Or how would you? What can you
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provide a story maybe of what an example of a student having kind of like a
transformational experience at all?
M
Merrilee Brown 25:46
Yes, I had one student that had never worked with a homeless person before. And she, I
asked her if she would be comfortable being in the back. And helping someone with foot
care. Because I knew she had never done that before. And she was very nervous about
that, because she was afraid that someone's feet were going to be absolutely something
she had never seen before. And that actually happened. So the person that I paired her
with has horrible, horrible feet. And I didn't really do it on purpose. But he was the first one
in and she was back there. And it just kind of happened. And probably that was like a
guide moment, I really think it was a good moment. But she ended up spending the entire
two hours with this guest. And by the time she left that day, she had tears in her eyes,
because she had felt so grateful to have the experience with this person that just had
horrible, horrible feet. But what she took away from this one time that the health
comments was not this man with horrible feet. But what a lovely man, this person was.
And that's what she will remember. And she actually did write about it in her journal.
Kathleen Clark 27:16
So as far as when you're at the health commons, what are some stories or challenges
people talk about as far as accessing care or, or accessing health care?
M
Merrilee Brown 27:29
You're referring to guests?
Kathleen Clark 27:30
Yeah.
M
Merrilee Brown 27:36
Well, it seems like if they actually need to access health care, whenever you talk about
HCMC, they all know where HCMC is, they have all used HCMC. And I feel that, you know,
that is their healthcare home, so to speak. So they know that they know how they know
how to find care, many of them do have access to other clinics, and are seen in clinics, I
think probably one of the biggest challenges might be folks with mental illness. I think
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many of these folks have not had an actual diagnosis, have not had the care that they
need for their mental illness. And therefore, you know, a lot of the behaviors and so forth
go unchecked, in you know, that ends up getting them in trouble and then getting them,
you know, into the, you know, the law enforcement system, because they end up getting
put in jail because they're acting out. And it's just, it's just such an inappropriate use of the
jail system. And I guess, I think another thing is, you know, I think people really take pretty
good care of their feet, think they know that they need to do that. But sometimes, there's
people that need to have their feet looked after more frequently than once a week or
even twice a week that they need a little more care than that. And I think it's hard to find
that on going. I know, Opportunity Center offers footcare on Wednesdays, but I just I think
that's probably really difficult. And so it's interesting to think about people's feet, and how
the health come in started in the very beginning. You know, it started with the pair of
socks. And it's interesting to see what 25 years ago that now, you know, we're still we're
still counting socks, we still see that it's like it's really important. I think transportation is
another concern they have, if they have access to get to a doctor, then they need to be
able to have vouchers to be able to take the public transportation. And I'm not sure how
easy that is for people.
Kathleen Clark 30:24
Well, I think you're telling me so many great things about why you like being at the health
commond, but in your words, what is your favorite part about being part of this
community? And can you share a story or you don't have to share a story either.
M
Merrilee Brown 30:43
Oh, I just, I love to be able to have conversations with all of the guests that come in to the
health commons. They're all so appreciative, it seems like there's, there's so little that
we're able to do. And I think about so little or able to do from probably physically a
physical health standpoint. And yet, I think what we do from an emotional and spiritual
standpoint, is amazing. So what we lack for in, you know, physical health opportunities we
totally make up for in on an emotional and a spiritual level.
Kathleen Clark 31:32
So, what is something that we at the health commons could improve on?
M
Merrilee Brown 31:45
Oral History Interview with Merrilee Brown,
Page
2018
11 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
I think we're open and we're accompanying. I think what we do we do well, it's, it's hard to
say right now, because we're in such a confined space. And I don't know what the space is
going to look like. Nor do I know, the availability of hours that we'll have. So you know, I
guess it would be that you know, that we're accessible when people need us.
Kathleen Clark 32:21
So, as far as nurses in the community at large, what do you think that they should know
about when taking care of people who may be experiencing homelessness or who are
marginally housed?
M
Merrilee Brown 32:32
repeat that.
Kathleen Clark 32:34
So if you had any advice to nurses, not just students, but nurses practicing, we're taking
care of our homeless or marginally als individual? What would you like to tell that nurse?
M
Merrilee Brown 32:49
I would like to tell that nurse that look at this person, as someone from a strength based
perspective and resiliency, and learn from this person, how they are living the life they are,
are choosing or not choosing right now. And learn from this particular person, you have so
much to learn.
Kathleen Clark 33:26
So, as far as your teaching at the university, do you have a story or something that you
would like to share about? Why do you love teaching or a very memorable experience
you had while you were teaching?
M
Merrilee Brown 33:43
I love teaching every semester. And part of that is because of where some of the students
come from when they arrive. 410/411 many totally lack knowledge for first of all awareness
and knowledge of the homeless population. And the opportunities that are given to them
Oral History Interview with Merrilee Brown,
Page
2018
12 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
throughout this semester. And how they transform during the semester is absolutely
amazing what they write in their journals, what they write in their line assignments. It's
absolutely amazing. They come out at a whole different place when they finished this
particular course. And I think part of it is the course and the opportunity to work with the
homeless because I think they're just a special cultural group. But I have to say that I think
it's also Augsburg. I think when I started in at Augsburg if someone would have said to me
you're going to be different. When you come out boksburg inflatable, what does what
does that mean? I have no idea what that means. But when you leave Augsburg, you are
different. And I think that has to do with the opportunities that we have while we're here
to increase our awareness and our opportunities to look at learn from and become
involved in social justice. And again, you know, what you do unto the least of these? You
do one to me. That is, I think that's what Augsburg is about.
Kathleen Clark 35:44
So just as we're sitting here, talking and listening to how much passion you have, and how
much you advocate and being that you're retired, but not really, you really decided to
come teach. How, where does that passion come from? And how do you keep yourself
grounded in the work instead of getting burned out or oversimplifying it.
M
Merrilee Brown 36:09
I love being a nurse. And I'm going on 46 years of being a nurse, 43, full time. And I've had
I've had a wonderful ride as a nurse, and I've had wonderful opportunities all these years
to learn from the patients, the clients, my co workers, staff. I've just, I've been blessed, and
I've had just a wonderful opportunity to be able to, to give back. I think nursing is just the
best career, there's so many opportunities within nursing. I know that we need to take care
of ourselves, I know that we need to provide self care. And I've done a much better job
have that later on in my career than I did earlier in my career. Because I was working full
time I was going to school, I was having my babies, and I just kept doing that over and
over again. And that was that was kind of kind of crazy. People would ask me, How did
you do that? And I said, I don't know. You don't think about it, you just kind of do it. So I'm
much better now about self care. And we talk about that. And for 10 for love. The the
nurses, I think, for me, the nurses right now in school are where I was, because I was doing
this at the same time. And it's not. It's not easy. But I think it just I think the nurses that I've
worked with are just really caring souls. And I think that's where it comes from, is this
passion and compassion, to care about others. And when all is said and done in this life.
The only thing that's going to matter are relationships.
Oral History Interview with Merrilee Brown,
Page
2018
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Kathleen Clark 38:26
Well, I just have two more questions for you. One is I know that Bev Nillson is not able to
be a good historian at this time. Is there anything that you think that she would want
people to know about either her beliefs, health commons, or the department in general?
M
Merrilee Brown 38:50
She loved what she did here. I remember being in her office. And she would write all over
my papers in red. She always used a red pen. And I would sit in her office and I would cry.
And I would just think why does this have to be so hard? And she would just smile and just
kind of look at me like, you know, you're, you're gonna be okay. You're gonna be alright.
And it's funny because I do that now with some of the students when they're just, I don't I
just don't get this trauma informed care. I don't understand the harm reduction model. I
don't know why somebody would want to live on the street. You know, I just don't get it.
And I like smile and just say, you'll get it. You'll get it. It's, it's coming. It's coming. So I think,
you know, Bev did what she did. Because that was what her heart told her to do.
Kathleen Clark 39:59
is regarding To the health Commons, thinking about it and 20 years from now, what do
you think that it should look like?
M
Merrilee Brown 40:08
Yeah, I saw that question. And I went, No, I don't. I don't know, in 20 years from now, I, you
know, there's this statewide initiative to end homelessness. Yes, for the first time, we're
starting to see a decrease in homelessness except for our youth, and that is increasing.
Our, our society hasn't become a gentler society, we are becoming more of a separate
society, we are not interconnected. And until we get more connected to each other, I don't
see the homelessness going away. I don't know if I ever see the homelessness going away.
I don't, I don't know what it's going to take, I don't know in 20 years, what it'll look like
what the needs will be. Maybe there still will be homeless. Maybe it becomes a model for
just being a safe place for people to go to. or a model, a model for others, a model of
caring, or a model of accompanying for others, whether homeless or not. But it's a place
where everyone can feel welcome or as welcome as they do now. That's pretty lofty.
Kathleen Clark 41:49
Oral History Interview with Merrilee Brown,
Page
2018
14 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Well, that's all the questions I have for you. But is there anything that you would like to
add or share before we end the interview?
M
Merrilee Brown 42:02
I love Augsburg. I love the Health Commons. Love all the faculty that I have the
opportunity to work with. It's all I can say.
Kathleen Clark 42:18
Wonderful. Thank you so much for taking the time to be part of this. And also I didn't
mention at the beginning of the recording, but we are recording this in our trailer space.
So there's been a few interruptions. So that's what you've heard. But yeah, so thank you.
M
Merrilee Brown 42:36
You're welcome. Thank you for asking me
Oral History Interview with Merrilee Brown,
Page
2018
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Oral History Interview with Martha
Gisselquist, 2018
Tue, 3/9 5:06PM
18:26
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, nurse, nursing, guests, lutheran, twin cities, commons, health, bev, volunteers, people,
oxford, years, relationships, strengths, church, nursing program, resources, grew, community
SPE... Show more
Oral History Interview with Martha
Gisselquist, 2018
Tue, 3/9 5:06PM
18:26
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, nurse, nursing, guests, lutheran, twin cities, commons, health, bev, volunteers, people,
oxford, years, relationships, strengths, church, nursing program, resources, grew, community
SPEAKERS
Martha Gisselquist, Kathleen Clark
Kathleen Clark 00:00
Thank you for joining us today. My name is Katie Clark. I am an assistant professor of
Nursing at Augsburg University. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording?
M
Martha Gisselquist 00:10
Good morning, I'm Martha Gisselquist.
Kathleen Clark 00:12
How many years have you been here at the Health Commons?
M
Martha Gisselquist 00:16
I started volunteering on a regular basis in the summer of 2000. So it's been over 17 years
of being involved with this fantastic program.
Kathleen Clark 00:28
Oral History Interview with Martha Gisselquist,
Page 2018
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Thank you for joining us. Before we begin, I just want to make sure that you confirm that
you can send to be interviewed and have the interview recording stored at Augsburg
University, which will be made available to the public.
M
Martha Gisselquist 00:39
Yes.
Kathleen Clark 00:40
Great. Okay, can you just start off by telling me a little bit about where you grew up and
who you called family.
M
Martha Gisselquist 00:51
I grew up in Sioux City, Iowa. Born in Minnesota, father's family, mostly from the Twin
Cities. And my mother's family from northern Minnesota and North Dakota both my
grandfather's and father were Lutheran pastors. So a lot of involvement in the church
growing up.
Kathleen Clark 01:15
So how did you end up in the Twin Cities?
M
Martha Gisselquist 01:20
came up here for school.
Kathleen Clark 01:24
Okay, so I know that you're a nurse. So what led you to want to be a nurse and come here
for school?
M
Martha Gisselquist 01:33
I don't remember wanting to do anything else. Three of my aunts were nurses. Of course,
options seemed rather limited for women when I was growing up. You know, you could be
a teacher or a nurse or secretary or a stay at home mom. I always wanted to be a nurse.
Oral History Interview with Martha Gisselquist,
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Some people accuse me of being a little too much of a caregiver. But always wanted to be
a nurse.
Kathleen Clark 02:03
Great no can What about your educational background? What what path Did you take to
become a nurse?
M
Martha Gisselquist 02:10
I came directly to Minneapolis from high school to attend Lutheran deaconess hospital
School of Nursing, which was a three year diploma program. And that was also the alma
mater of my odds. I really did not get anyplace else. Of course, I would go to Lutheran
deaconess. And then then I worked for a number of years and attended the University of
Minnesota in the early 80s to receive an aging studies certificate. In the mid 80s, I enrolled
in the first weekend nursing program at Augsburg to get my BSN.
Kathleen Clark 02:53
And what year was that?
M
Martha Gisselquist 02:55
83-86.
Kathleen Clark 02:57
And was that the first group that
M
Martha Gisselquist 02:59
was the first weekend college group, not the first RNs to complete the BSN programs.
Kathleen Clark 03:09
And what made you choose Augsburg?
Martha Gisselquist 03:12
Oral History Interview with Martha Gisselquist,
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M
Martha Gisselquist 03:12
My family has a long history with Augsburg, my grandfather, Uncle, father, five of my
siblings are all graduates of Augsburg. My uncle taught history at Augsburg for many
years. I was not going to be the only one of the six kids not to say that I graduated from
Augsburg and the program fit my timing and my interests.
Kathleen Clark 03:40
Now what, as far as the Augsburg central health comments, which was used to be called
the Augsburg nursing center, What do you remember about the beginning of it all?
M
Martha Gisselquist 03:52
I recall during my student days doing a variety of public health practicums throughout the
Twin Cities, I think the professor's and especially the dean Bev Nilsson, were looking for a
community experience that would be more unique for the Augsburg nursing programs.
Kathleen Clark 04:15
So you first learned about it through your schooling.
M
Martha Gisselquist 04:18
Correct.
Kathleen Clark 04:20
And do you remember any ideas are foundational theories of Bev Neilson beginning at
all? Do you remember any of her? Did she say much? Oh, yes.
M
Martha Gisselquist 04:32
During my student days, I was there during what perhaps would be considered the
discussion phases. I recall Bev Nilsson having many meetings with administration, both at
Augsburg and at Central Lutheran where she was a member. There were just many
logistics to figure out the responsibilities of each entity where the funding was going to
come from the space, the timing, the incorporation of you know how the students would
be involved in the professor's. So I was there during its development phase.
Oral History Interview with Martha Gisselquist,
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Kathleen Clark 05:14
Would you say her ideas that then are what it Ruth represents now? Or does it look a lot
different than what she thought it would look like?
M
Martha Gisselquist 05:26
I think it is pretty much what she envisioned perhaps more refined. At this point. It seemed
like a, like a nursing center where nurses did hands on. And I think it's broadened
extensively from that. Yeah, and I recall when it was started, I think some of her ideas were
that Bev felt very strongly that the two organizations, central Lutheran, and Augsburg
could work very well together to offer needed health care services to the inner city
homeless population, the partnership would also provide an excellent experience for
nursing students. It's not easy, I don't think to find the practicums around the Twin Cities,
and for the process to follow them and etc.
Kathleen Clark 06:30
So do you think it'd be it'd be more open, not just for nurses makes it stronger, or
something that we could improve? We don't have it doesn't make it stronger. Or it makes
a difference, right?
M
Martha Gisselquist 06:49
It definitely makes it different, when in the early phases, you were able to give over the
counter beds and spend a lot more time on what were health issues, it did not give a
whole lot of time to just sit down and build relationships, which I think is one of our big
strengths now. Getting to know the folks getting to understand a bit what the issues are. I
think that's, that's some of the improvement. I see now.
Kathleen Clark 07:30
Um, so as far as you What keeps you coming back,
M
Martha Gisselquist 07:35
I really enjoy the guests who come here, as well as I enjoy the volunteers, the Augsburg
staff and students that come and the central Lutheran community, it's a great group of
folks. And I am learning a lot about the issues that face those who are more marginalized
Oral History Interview with Martha Gisselquist,
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in our society. I love having the time to visit and get to know the guests. I feel it's a really
wonderful gift to be able to use my nursing skills that I've gained over the past almost 50
years. In this way. It's it's a fun nursing,
Kathleen Clark 08:17
and you're in natural here. Do you feel that the over that overall, the health Commons is a
very welcoming space? And how do you kind of create that sense of hospitality when
you're caring for people?
M
Martha Gisselquist 08:32
Yes, I think for the most part, it is a welcoming place. But currently, our space doesn't help
too much.
Kathleen Clark 08:41
We're in a trailer. Currently, yeah, for this year during the remodel,
M
Martha Gisselquist 08:45
I want to welcome guests as if they were coming to my home. I want to be able to greet
them. When they come by, I want to be able to sit and talk to them maybe offer coffee,
and just let them know that they matter.
Kathleen Clark 09:02
So how would you say that when somebody comes in, you're able to acknowledge their
need.
M
Martha Gisselquist 09:10
I think by listening and observing, what what are they looking for? What are they saying?
But also what are they saying? It really helps to have those hygiene products and socks
available to give freely. It allows our guests to come in and check us out in a very non
threatening way. And then conversations and relationships often begin just with that
benign entrance into need some supplies.
Oral History Interview with Martha Gisselquist,
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Kathleen Clark 09:45
What is something that we can improve at the health Commons?
M
Martha Gisselquist 09:48
I think space makes a huge difference. Do guests feel safe to check us out? Is there a
comfortable place to visit? Is there some place for privacy when it's needed, is there
something that tells the first time visitor, who we are and what we do? Are all of the nurses
and volunteers attentive to all of the guests? I think those are things we need to always be
aware of and watching and improving on.
Kathleen Clark 10:25
So can you tell us more about what your favorite part of being part of the community at
the health Commons is? For example, could you share a story with us?
M
Martha Gisselquist 10:34
Well, I know the needs of the homeless in our community are huge. However, I feel I'm
doing just this small part to help. I think I've been able to share some of the concerns and
needs that I've seen with others in my network, which pains me has led to others
volunteering, making donations, merely just becoming aware of some of the issues in what
you as an individual can do. You asked about a story. Let me use the name Karen, to
describe a young woman who was in and out of addiction, sometimes abused, with
numerous health issues that she coped with, but really didn't have the strength to fix. I
really appreciated the health commons being there for her. She would come in when she
was really down in just difficult situations. And know she could come to us for support for
supplies for direction. But she would also come to us when she was feeling good. And
when she had some successes in when she started to do some art projects. And I, you
know, we were there for her in the low times and in the high times. And I think the health
Commons, staff, volunteers were there for her at her death. The whole church, put on a
conducted a wonderful funeral, and even identified and gave her a burial spot in the
columbarium in the church. And that all started because of the health comments and that
relationship that we were able to develop with this one young woman
Kathleen Clark 12:45
that is a beautiful story. What are some of the typical health concerns that you see with
Oral History Interview with Martha Gisselquist,
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participants who come in?
M
Martha Gisselquist 12:55
mental health issues are huge
M
Martha Gisselquist 12:58
addictions.
M
Martha Gisselquist 13:01
And just some with basic blood pressure issues that they monitor here. Skin Problems, a
lot of aches and pains, fungal infection also have the feet poor foot care, nail care. Those
are some of the typical ones, you see.
Kathleen Clark 13:20
So you mentioned Karen having strengths but what what are some kind of overall
strengths you see in the people who come into the health commons,
M
Martha Gisselquist 13:29
toughness to make it on their own outside creativity in finding supplies, finding resources
that they need to live just day to day and in a tough environment.
Kathleen Clark 13:43
What are some of the challenges that you've heard people discuss and their ability to
access health care?
M
Martha Gisselquist 13:50
finances is huge, especially for medication co pays, transportation, also knowing where to
go and when to get the health care. That's huge.
Kathleen Clark 14:04
Oral History Interview with Martha Gisselquist,
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Very much. So what should nurses know when they're taking care of people who may be
experiencing homelessness or who are marginally housed?
M
Martha Gisselquist 14:15
I think they need to orient themselves to what resources are out there. I really appreciated
when Augsburg provided a walking tour of a number of the services in the area so you
could see that firsthand. I think familiarizing oneself with the information in the booklet
Handbook of the street is helpful in identifying resources and showing folks
M
Martha Gisselquist 14:43
what's available. That's just some of the how tos. What else should nurses know? Boy,
you've got to be willing to Be around folks who have who don't smell so good maybe or
have some other diseases that you think do I really want to give this guy a hug? But of
course you do.
M
Martha Gisselquist 15:19
How do you look at that person no matter what situation they're in and just say, this is a
guest in my home, and I am going to welcome them the best I can.
Kathleen Clark 15:31
Well, that sounds like you're almost answering the next question. But I'd like to answer.
Ask it again anyhow. How do you accompany people on their journey of health?
M
Martha Gisselquist 15:40
I think just being present, remembering who they are and what they've been going
through, and connecting them with those appropriate resources.
Kathleen Clark 15:49
And you talked a lot about relationships. So how do you really begin to develop
relationships with people come into the space?
Oral History Interview with Martha Gisselquist,
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M
Martha Gisselquist 15:56
Well, it happens only over time, welcoming them, introducing yourself to them, trying to
find out something unique about each person that you can hopefully remember and, and
be a part of that discussion each time they come in, and definitely not being judgmental,
trying to keep an open mind of why they've come in in the first place? And what kind of
what kind of what can what can we offer each other?
Kathleen Clark 16:32
So if there is one thing that you could change about healthcare, what would it be?
M
Martha Gisselquist 16:38
I think training and retraining and retraining all health care workers to look at the whole
person and providing easier access to health care for everyone without the financial
burdens.
Kathleen Clark 16:55
So what do you think the health common should be like 20 years from now?
M
Martha Gisselquist 17:02
I could see it be replicated in other churches that are located near populations that are
marginalized. I see Augsburg partnering with other nursing programs in the Twin Cities to
meet the staffing and financial needs to provide these types of centers
M
Martha Gisselquist 17:19
for one thing.
Kathleen Clark 17:21
Well, that's all I have for questions for you. Is there any thing you'd like to add or want, or
want want to share regarding either the history or your experiences?
M
Martha Gisselquist 17:35
Oral History Interview with Martha Gisselquist,
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I'm very appreciative of Augsburg commitment to sticking with this program since the mid
80s. Really, I know it didn't start functioning until 92. And there were other organizations
involved to help it financially. But that's that's that's a real commitment for Augsburg to
continue this and I hope that that, that they will see that this type of outreach to the
community for their nursing program is really fits the mission that Augsburg has.
Kathleen Clark 18:15
Well, thank you so much for taking the time.
M
Martha Gisselquist 18:17
You're welcome.
M
Martha Gisselquist 18:18
Thank you, Katie, for your leadership and for your energy and for putting this history
together.
Oral History Interview with Martha Gisselquist,
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Show less
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony
Cosby, 2018
Tue, 3/9 1:48PM
47:05
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, chicago, kids, killing, feet, years, freezing, drinking, ai, street, toiletries, commons, sleep,
health, housing, big, shot, augsburg, care, growing
SPEAKERS
Freddy (security), Kathleen C... Show more
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony
Cosby, 2018
Tue, 3/9 1:48PM
47:05
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, chicago, kids, killing, feet, years, freezing, drinking, ai, street, toiletries, commons, sleep,
health, housing, big, shot, augsburg, care, growing
SPEAKERS
Freddy (security), Kathleen Clark, Lee Anthony Cosby
Kathleen Clark 00:00
All right. Hello, my name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of Nursing at Augsburg
University. Could you introduce yourself for the recording?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 00:09
My name is Lee Anthony Cosby.
Kathleen Clark 00:11
Great.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 00:12
And I've been going to Augsburg for quite some time.
Kathleen Clark 00:17
Great. Well, thank you for joining me today for the oral history project. Before we begin, I
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
Page 1
2018
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
would just like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed and having that interview
recording stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 00:33
Um, yeah
Kathleen Clark 00:35
That's okay? Ok, great. Good. So, we're recording here and the trailer, where the health
provinces so if there's any interruptions, that's what the background noise is. But to get
started, can you just tell me a little bit about where you grew up in who you called family?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 00:56
Well, I grew up. I was born and raised in Chicago, Illinois. And I have a humble
background. As a kid, parents were together for a while and things changed and we
started growing up different me and my brother you know. So ah, we had loving
grandparents stayed in the projects, near where we stayed in the projects where we was
at and like I say it was real humble and it was dangerous. You know when you're kids. You
know kids get shot. You know just a lot of things that you wouldn't see, you know you
might see on TV or something like that, you know but. Up and close, you out there you,
you shocked. You know people doing things you know get high you know so do some
people it's gummy?? kids mothers in the hallway, and you know they be drinking and
smoking you know, all those things so. That's something that I'll cherish there's a kid
because now I knew what it was about growing up and you know moving you change
moving to a house, it's different you know, different neighborhood. You know but I say. You
know, I wouldn’t give it up for nothin’. I won’t change a thing, because you know. I learned
a lot. I seen some of my friends get killed and a lot of us did. You know. You know a lot of
us didn’t have dads and that’s the key. We had no male figure. You know that that was
your dad…. so you can get away with stuff, when you know, when it's just mom.. especially
when she's trying to go to work. You know and then the girlfriend gotta watch you, you
know watch the kids, you know. Things like that, you know because they don't work and all
that. But like I say you know, I wouldn't you know, I wouldn't you know….. I wouldn’t give it
up for anything. What I've done throughout my life, when I get, you know, when I seen and
when I did you know. If I was growing up a little more understanding a little more things
are different. You know people are different. You know I've seen a lot of things people get
shot get killed and things like that. So, like I say I wouldn't give it up for nothing because
without that I wouldn't know where it’s be nicer. I wouldn't know anything, you know.
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
Page 2
2018
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Because I would be lost, you know. You know like when you born and raised in those
ghettos and boroughs and all that stuff like New York, and you know Detroit, st. Louis and
you know you hear all that stuff didn't you? Chicago, Milwaukee, you know. I mean like I
say you know we had Black Panthers and you know people getting shot. You know Fred
Hampton. Jr. You know, Senior River. You know got shot. You know by the police, and he
dived on top of the Caucasian woman and she was eight and a half months pregnant,
and they was like, oh we laid there and he laid there, and he it's a woman under him, and
she's pregnant and the sun came out. He started doing the same thing as his daddy did.
So you know my mom worked over there at the post office. So you know me and my
brother seems to take us to see certain things you know. I was a real experience. Like I say
you know, Chicago, Illinois, and you know they're killing like water right now, you know
and the day, I just read something in the paper about Baltimore County, and it's you know
this lady they shot this lady and they shot her son and they gave her three, they gave her
family 3 million dollars, and now that's what they do when they you know do things like
that, when they wrongful death. You know things like that lady didn't have no weapon or
thing like that. That's how they are, I saw police is they all they know, is you know, shoot to
kill. Just like the young man in Chicago, McDonald, they shot him 16 times and he had a
fingernail clip. You know running and turned in this way, and they just shot him anyway
like that they thought that was a weapon. That's what they that's what they say. You know
so his family got the money, but he not here with us. You know what number 16 years old,
you know so.
Kathleen Clark 05:59
So. Yeah, so you mentioned your brother, is your brother still in Chicago? Or where's your
brother at, no?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 06:05
Yeah, he’s still in Chicago.
Kathleen Clark 06:07
So do you still keep in touch with him?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 06:10
Yeah, every blue moon. I don’t have a phone no more. And I don’t call nobody and so they
probably like, what’s all wrong with him. He ain’t call, he ain’t dead. We don’t have pay
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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phones or nothing. That's why I'm haven’t called, I’m not gonna ask nobody could I use
their phone, I'm too ivory for that. I’d rather have my own.
Kathleen Clark 06:34
So how did you end up here in Minnesota?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 06:36
Oh Lord, have mercy. You’re not going to believe this… I met a woman on 74 Hampton,
Ashman, on the south side of Chicago, and she told me that she lived up here in
Minneapolis and she asked me would I come and see it. I said yeah. You know, I say yeah.
And I came on up, and it was freezing when I got off the Greyhound it was freezing I had
they're kind of cold in my life. I thought Chicago was cold but this was cold. I couldn't
believe it. And then the, and you know, it fizzled on out, you see, she went her way and I
went mine. We couldn't get along, so you know. What can you say those things? That's the
way to go? That's the way it goes? You know you can't sit back and cry. Cuz it's plenty fish
in the sea.
Kathleen Clark 07:35
What year was that?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 07:37
Oh, Lord have mercy man had to be about 84 A ny 8383 84. Yeah, cuz I came up in a fact.
Kathleen Clark 07:50
And, and then did you end up having kids with her, or?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 07:54
No, we didn't get a chance to do none of that. You know she was a different kind of
person you know. But ahhh, she was just…she was one of those with the light switches,
they just flick on and off, you know, you say something, do something different you know
so now we can do nothing like that, we just fell out, I just hit the streets, after that. She was
talking just like that….You know to get out the house. And I, she was talking you know like
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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that, you get out of the house. Oh here, we go and I didn't know it was a one mistake. You
know and I didn't know that see I found out the hard way.
Kathleen Clark 08:40
So you have you been living on the streets ever since you guys broke up?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 08:45
Yeah, pretty much very since.
Kathleen Clark 08:47
And how long has that been?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 08:51
Oh, lets see…..84. No, 86. Yeah 86 yeah, 86 yeah – I been out here since 86.
Kathleen Clark 09:14
So as far as what has been your biggest barrier to get housing?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 09:18
Ahhh…..well, I could have had it, I mean I'm it was there for me, but I didn't want it a lot of
stipulations they had and I didn't appreciate, especially you telling much you can't have
no company. You know and then you know you're taking money out of my check. And
then you know leaving me with, you know, half of the, you know, the 203. Then you know I
keep my stamps and….What else? Oh, 96 cash in my pocket. And then you get a place to
stay you know, where you can cook, sleep…. You know all that, but like I said, I didn't, I
didn't, I didn't appreciate it. You know because the area's. You know this way south and
north and east and you know northeast, you know northeast is a real nice neighborhood.
It’s a real nice neighborhood. But I didn't want to be around where all that gunfire and you
know that kind of stuff cuz that was Southside in Northside. It was killing each other, you
know, back in the day. We just have block parties on Ocean Highway in the summer, you
know. Where we would, you know. Entertain yourself, you know. See music acts and things
like that, you know. So like, I'll say you know, I noticed that it just went by all these years,
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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and I can't even believe that…. I've been up here 36 years. That's a long time to be in one
spot. 36 years, me and my partner we counted the years and came over 36. I've been
living out here for 36 years.
Kathleen Clark 11:18
That is…..
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 11:22
In the street….. You know before when we parted ways, then I was able to you know find a
job get a place to stay so you know. So I had, I had a couple of apartments and then after
that I decided to go back home. That's why it's only 36 years, because I went home from
one year, but then I came right back. You know, so I was…I was, why did I come here?
People is dying around here. You know but people like dyin’ and so…..But you know over
there on the south side they just out of control. Especially, and they still haven't found out
about, when is he gonna prosecute for killing that our lady from Switzerland that was
getting ready to marry oh. Uh, oh yeah, they do Freeman he ain't even prosecuted today.
He still ain’t even prosecuted today. Wow.
Kathleen Clark 12:15
And it’s been awhile.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 12:18
Yeah, and some years. Like two years. So, like I say, it’s turned in to a dangerous city,
sitting here.
Kathleen Clark 12:18
Yeah. So, as far as you know apartments and all that I know you've had a lot of issues with
getting disability. What has been –
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 12:19
Yeah..
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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Kathleen Clark 12:19
Well, what has been your issues with all that?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 12:19
I am still going through the changes, ya know. Like you know, they represented me,
greenline and then you know, they you know, they denied me again, and then I'm like
anyone to tell me tell me why you didn't tell me, uh, that your knee was bothering you and
your, it’s been…it’s been diagnosed, been on paper. I don't have to keep saying that.
Kathleen Clark 12:37
So as far as you know, apartments and all that I know, you've had a lot of issues with
getting disability. What has been around that? Oh,
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 12:47
I'm still going through the changes, man. Like I say, the to the agreement. They, they
represented me and then they you know, they denied me again. And then I'm like, they
didn't want to tell me tell me why you didn't tell me that. Your knee was bogging. It's been
it's been what's become diagnosis been on paper. I don't have to keep saying that.
Kathleen Clark 13:15
So basically, because there was like a discrepancy in your reporting. They dismissed it.
Yeah, they
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 13:21
Yeah, they denied me again. You know and now I'm still dealing with some other people,
who they, ahhhh? Love that, you know….. no you know and you know, like I've seen the
other day with the ponytail him. Like yeah, like what’s up with the ponytails, yeah. Yo,
what's up Mr. Calvin like yeah, right okay? So he's doing something different. He argued
against, you know. What the other doctor, yeah know what I found out at the end. The
doctor was doing his residency on me and I didn't appreciate that.
Kathleen Clark 14:00
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Yeah
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 14:01
I wanted a doctor. That's been around the block. Not nobody that's doing a register going
to school on me and you know that's what he did because he sent me a letter in the mail
and I read and then I was furious. I was furious, I mean tell me, this y'all gave me this
person, that do a residency? On a human being and then when they left. I say, listen here I
don't want no residency, I want to put, on a doctor that's been around the block that
knows what he's doing. I just, I don't know. I just don’t wanna accept that no more, I didn’t
know he was doing that. See, and there was no way for me to find out because I was kind
of healed back then. You know, but that's what made him late and put me on you know.
And he put me on GA. You know all that stuff, and then I was sick, you know walking back
and forth in the weather. Oh, what's properly dressed, what's properly dressed….You
know…. and half coats and all that had this and that but just being out on the street, then
you know. When you're out of the street you go in the skyway. They don't want you in the
skyway. You know then they don't want you in there IDS Building downstairs, where
everybody else be at. Maybe talkin’ thirty minutes…and you can't be sleeping… and you
know. All this, all this, you know…. mumbo jumbo stuff. You know I understand you have
rules you know. But when you have rules, you got to make sure you, you know, you aby by
them. You know that's the way they're gonna be. They don't change up, you know so yeah,
and then the housing part. They ain’t trying to give us no house. I have a friend, I have a
partner, he lives in a housing building. He worked at the United, he worked at the airlines
for all them years. Do you know, they found out, he have a pension and they trying to
take that? And he living in a housing build and paying 650 a month? 650 a month. He in a
house building and they trying to take his pension and he trying to get with people,
lawyers, and all them. And I just told him, you just get your studio. You don't need no, big
one bedroom apartment. You don’t need that, it’s just you. You ain’t married. You ain’t
married, you know. And they just trying to take his pension, you know. And he work all
them years….. and you trying to take his pension, just like my other friends. They, they was
married, but they was out on the street and his wife was in the wheelchair, he use to push
her. Do you know, that it took them so many years, just to get a place? And then they was
talkin about.. their pension was too big. To Big. Ohhh, because they made big money they
were nice big places and they made big money see so he was there for like thirty and forty
years, so you know. That's why I didn't want to take their pension. I'm like tell me oh man
y'all make too much. Y'all you got a pension and all. And he's like what? I can't get a place
for me and my wife, we out here in the street. Yeah, and then you know housing over there
on Plymouth they don't do nothing. They don't they do some every once in a while, they
open it up and say oh, yeah, we got housing. You know things like that and then they're
close, you know. But like I said dang…. You know Minneapolis is just it's all about this and
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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see the reason why some of us all about this, is because they're bringing more citizens
from other places. See and that's what's making the money grow and then they you know
you've got to go out here and search to find places to stay. You know and then when they
want to look at your record and your felonies and all this stuff. You know it should be man.
Oh, man. I need to get up street. It's freezing out here. We're walking around outside in the
cold, you know I see you come through the skywalk and that’s the first thing they’ll say.
You know, they’ll let you stand in front of the Target downstairs and let you in the lobby
and just sit there, watch, yeah, so you know. Those the things that we are up against.
Kathleen Clark 19:00
So, during a typical night. Where do you usually stay?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 19:04
Oh, well I ride the lightrail. That’s what I do. You know, get on at midnight and get off at
six.
Kathleen Clark 19:13
And what are the rules on that for you?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 19:16
Oh. Well, they say we can ride it after midnight, but you know things change, you know
because us citizens, we break the rules and see. And see, I stand back, I wait to midnight,
you know, and then I on. And get off at six. You know, and they say we can do that, but
see things change. Things change, people do what they want to do. You know, so you
know that.
Kathleen Clark 19:46
So, do you have to like sit up? Can you lay down on the lightrail? Or?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 19:51
Oh no, but they lay down and sleep anyway because the police don't come in there. You
know, like he used to. He used to come on there and check for fares, and all that stuff. But
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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uh they don't do that no more.
Kathleen Clark 20:07
Interesting.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 20:31
Well, they just want to make sure, you know, that you make sure you have your fare, and
you honest. And a lot of us is not, you know, so just. I just do the best I can. Yeah, with what
I have.Yeah, well, 36 years of the cold weather. That's a long time.
Kathleen Clark 20:40
Yeah, right.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 20:49
Yeah, so I'm trying to go some way anyway. You know, go some where warm, ya know.
Yeah, I’m tired of this cold weather.
Kathleen Clark 21:19
Yeah, well thirty-six years of the cold weather.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 21:19
Yeah.
Kathleen Clark 21:19
Yeah, that’s a long time.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 21:19
That’s a long time and I thought Chicago was cold. Yeah, I’m like wait a minute here. I
never felt this type of cold. (Laughing) ‘67 blizzard, we had in Chicago, back in 67. When
we was kids, playing in the snow and it was freezing there, back then, like I say, I will. Yes,
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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that’s the way it is. Everybody outs to get each other. You know, like everybody’s trying to
help each other.
Kathleen Clark 21:19
Well, I know. I….
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 21:19
Everybody for themselves right now.
Kathleen Clark 21:19
I feel like you're one of those people though, who is always looking out for everybody. Like
you're always reporting on who needs some attention and what’s going on…..
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 21:21
I know, a lot of people. A lot of people ask me a lot of things. No, so you know, I got a lot. I
love knowledge on me. You know that comes from my dad, you know. He's like that three
papers and all that stuff, you know and then I started doing it. And you know the rest is
history. You know, but like I say, you know. I, I try to need to focus more me than anything
else, you know. But like I say, already made my mind up. It's time for me to move on, you
know 36 years a long time. I didn't think I would be here that long, I really didn’t. I really
didn’t.
Kathleen Clark 22:01
So, how did you first hear about the Health Commons or the nurses here at Central?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 22:06
Well, everybody was talking about it. I didn’t know where it was at, I didn’t know where it
was at. I was talking about it and moving and walking, and then and follow this crowd and
see. You know and I finally found it and I don’t know if I came in and talked to you or if I. Is
this suppose to be? Remember that? I think I said something about it. No, about it no, but
like I say when I seen it. You know, I like nice clothes, you know. You know, you get your, get
toiletries and get your feet done. You know cuz I never take my shoes off, ever. Yeah, back
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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then I never do. You know, right now, I get some lotion, you know, and then my foot
cream. I'll put that on when I get a chance. They don't want you to be, you know putting
that on, like when you go over there to uh…..What's that, uh? MCC. You know, but I wait
until everybody leave and then I go in there and put the cream on and then I wash up and
you know, and some, yeah some young lady got raped over there. Yeah. Oh no. I followed
her in the bathroom and they came under the stall.
Kathleen Clark 24:40
Uhhh?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 24:40
Yeah, and then she was in there, hollering some brother and somebody else from Safety
grabbed him. That was what…. a couple of weeks ago and then.
Kathleen Clark 24:48
Oh no.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 24:49
Yeah, then I was, I was in the afternoon, one o'clock in the afternoon and class was going.
My class was going, my classes was going. Class was…... Yeah, you know. Like….it’s…..I
don’t know. It changed over the years. Things had changed, you know there's different
people now. It's not like the way it was when we were younger. You know, we older now.
You know when you see was coming in here the young generation, younger than us. And
we probably no good to them Yeah.
Kathleen Clark 24:49
Wow. I'm sorry to hear that. Well, as far as the Health Commons goes. Ummmm, do you
feel like people feel welcomed, when they come into the Health Commons?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 24:59
Yeah, they looking forward to seeing everybody. And we got a place we can go and get
this and that. And get our feet done. Since we don't have no water, you know, but like I say
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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you can go and get toiletries and you can get snacks if they have a mouth (??) or you
know, whatever the case may be, yeah. You see how many people come in here.
Kathleen Clark 25:27
Yeah. Yeah.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 25:27
You could look. You can stand. You can sit right here and look out that window see how
many people standing outside. That I tell you right there that this has been expanding.
You know, and it's getting larger and as large. That's why when they came more than not
to build and now they came up with the trailer.
Kathleen Clark 25:53
Yeah.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 25:54
Now you're gonna need more space.
Kathleen Clark 25:56
Yeah, yeah. And hopefully we'll have it in our new building when it comes.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 26:00
Yeah,yeah.
Kathleen Clark 26:02
So speaking of that building, is there anything in that space that you think we should have
available? Or do differently when we're in that space?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 26:14
Well, you'll need a phone. Um well, you’ll need a phone, well no, cause everybody has a
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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phone.
Kathleen Clark 26:18
Okay.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 26:19
So you don't really need that. So run it by me one more time?
Kathleen Clark 26:23
Well, I'm just trying to plan for the new space and thinking about what, what, what could
be needed or what we could do better. Once we're in that space. Obviously, we have
some constraints around not having water for footcare and things like that here
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 26:37
Yeah, well we got that.
Kathleen Clark 26:40
yes.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 26:40
Yeah, my feet is still bad, right now.
Kathleen Clark 26:44
So I'm just trying to think of something that we don't offer now, that we could offer there
that might be different?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 26:51
Well, make sure we have a large room where we can do all that foot care and make sure
we can make a positive out of it, you know make sure you'll be doing it right and you know
me, make everybody comfortable with it. You know be saying. Thank you, and you know
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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God bless you. We appreciate it. See you next time…you know we gotta cut down, we
gotta cut down on their language too.
Kathleen Clark 27:19
Sure.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 27:20
Yeah. You know really out of pocket now these days. You know we don't know how to talk
to each other and see if you're gonna do all that…yeah, there’s the door. Do that all
outside.
Kathleen Clark 27:32
Make sure we have strict rules around.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 27:34
Just like you got a kids, and somebody else got kids and they don't need to hear none of
that.
Kathleen Clark 27:40
Yeah
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 27:40
No, they don’t need to hear none of that.
Kathleen Clark 27:43
There's lots of different health focused clinics or drop in centers. So is there something that
we do different compared to other places that are health focused?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 27:53
Yes, I don't know any other places that do what you do, you know. When we get up we
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
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know certain days. We're coming to see you because you're giving up the foot care. You're
giving up to toiletries. You know, so those are things that we really need. You know it's just
fort…, it's just fortunate that it's only twice a week, so.
Kathleen Clark 28:23
So maybe we if we are open more, that would be better.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 28:26
Yeah, that would be good. No, because Because you see, you see it growing? I mean, you
could just look out the window and see that. I remember when it wasn't that many. Yeah. I
remember when they was in in a chap in a church. And the clothing room was over there.
Kathleen Clark 28:46
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 28:47
You know, we’d all be in line to get the clothes and then we build in a toiletry room. Get
enough foot care. You know so same way I'd like to talk to my man when he interviewed
me, you know.
Kathleen Clark 29:03
For MPR?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 29:04
Yea, the one that had the camera. Yeah, but like I say, it needs space. Space yeah, you
need space, and if you could have one of these to yourself. Then you will be okay, cause
ya see, then you can be doing one, two, three. You know.
Kathleen Clark 29:27
Sure.
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L
Lee Anthony Cosby 29:35
So everybody can be you know. Getting something done.
Kathleen Clark 29:40
So would you say the main reason you come back is for the toiletry items or what's the
main reason you keep coming back.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 29:46
There's not just a toiletries, I mean, I noticed places very, very positive. is very comfortable
to me. It is you know, I don't try to be yelled at customers and you know, that's Let me now
do that out there. Yeah. No in here. No, there's not. No, but like I say, you know, we love.
Wow, I'm gonna say I love coming back every Monday, Thursday, you know, because I
know, I'm gonna get my feet taken care. You know, and I know you're gonna give some
things that we need, like scarves and gloves and coats or whatever the case may be sure,
just like they gave us a Super Bowl coat. So like I say, you know, your concern. That's the
key. You're concerned about us health. And no annual lovely being. To me. No, I like to see
when, when your girls get a little bigger, how they gonna react when they start running
around, you know, looking at who is all these people here? Yeah, but like I say, you know,
I'll be looking for. I mean, everything, you know, Monday, Thursday, I know, them the days
to get here. You know, like I say, it took me a long time to play. I didn't know, you know,
where I was at. And then, you know, I didn't know let's keep talking about the church man,
the church and my church. Like whatever it is they talking about? And then I just stopped
following the crap. Oh, okay. Like I say, Yeah, I weights up to that. I'd be like, Oh, yeah, I
got two days. But like I say, you know, if we had, you know, more than two, you know,
somebody else can do that, too. But, you know, you got to get a bigger place to Spain. So,
my, like I say, yeah, I mean, you guys know, cuz I know, my feet are still bad, but they
could be worse where my book and say, Yo, man, we got to cut them off.
Kathleen Clark 32:07
Yeah, that's true.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 32:09
Like you say, you know, I been putting that cream on that. But you know, I don’t have no
place, so I got a sneak and put it on, in in the community college and all that.
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Kathleen Clark 32:20
Yeah.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 32:20
he did it one time I had had it on at any one person. I'm a magnet for just soon. I'm like,
man, ain't nobody even here. This is a Saturday. Yeah. Oh, man. This is a dining. Oh, there
we go. See my partner works over there. So because even another one I was working. I
used to work at a site. What does that? Say? What? No, trying to figure out what is it
saying? Hey, man, and we got real tight. Because he works over there. St. Augusta....St.
Thomas.
Kathleen Clark 33:11
St. Thomas. Oh yeah, sure.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 33:14
Being there we got, he's befriended me, you know. And now we've been been friends for a
long time. Yeah. His name is Randy, he got a kid. You know. So, there is another one who
use to work there with him, Marv. He works over there, at MCC now. LC: Cause he say,
they have better ah, better benefits, then at the same time, that’s why he left.
Kathleen Clark 33:22
That's great. So as far as nurses who are caring for people who are, you know, maybe
experiencing homelessness or who are marginally housed, what what should nurses know
when they're caring for somebody in in the hospital or in a clinic, when caring for
somebody who might be you know, living outside or in shelter?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 34:07
Yeah, living outside, living in a sky way….they be everywhere.
Kathleen Clark 34:12
Yeah.
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L
Lee Anthony Cosby 34:13
They don’t care, they be living in a sky way. you can go underground and then be sleep
over there.
Kathleen Clark 34:13
Wow.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 34:19
And I be like I believe, but that's what they do.
Kathleen Clark 34:26
Well, I would think I sometimes have heard that people who are often people who come to
the health comments when they're seen like in the ER, like over at HCMC that, that they're
maybe not as cordial or pleasant? And so why do you think people do you think people
feel stereotyped or judged when they're going to the ER or what do you what do you think
that's about?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 34:51
Well….ah, no. I don't think about them being stereotyped or you know, not judge. Yeah
but I mean, you know, probably the reason why they're being judged, because they don't
do what they supposed to do.
Kathleen Clark 35:03
Sure.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 35:03
And let's take care of yourself.
Kathleen Clark 35:05
Yeah.
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
Page 19
2018
of 25
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 35:06
You know. They just get irritable and you know, they just let everything go. You know, you
say something to a person, then they might just wanna snap your head…. you know
because he come in a certain way. You know, but….Like I say. You gotta take care of
yourself, you know.
Kathleen Clark 35:24
Yeah You an adult. You not a kid. Mommy and daddy don’t care of you no more, so you.
So, to do that, so you gotta remember, that you have to maintain that, in here. And that’s
a lot of us, it’s a lot of us, we gotta remember..…you drinking and drugging and you gotta
remember that…And we're thinking those things making us feel good, but you know,
they’re not. They're killing us, slowly. Yeah.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 35:50
Yeah, so we don’t look at that. We just use to livin’ any kind of way. You know, so ahhh….It
took me a while to figure it out.
Kathleen Clark 36:01
So what do you feel like you need to be healthy?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 36:07
For me to be healthy?
Kathleen Clark 36:08
Yeah.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 36:10
I think for me to be healthy, it's going into another city.
Kathleen Clark 36:14
Some time, to leave….
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
Page 20
2018
of 25
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 36:14
We just have to go somewhere where it's warm. You know, where I can, you know, wear t
shirts and put them in your pocket. Instead of coming out and get tho those in your
pocket. To keep running back and forth. Back and forth.
Kathleen Clark 36:37
Yeah, it's Freddie.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 36:38
Yeah, that's what I say.
Kathleen Clark 36:41
Yeah, there’s somebody who keeps coming in to get bus cards. Parking passes.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 36:46
Yeah.
Kathleen Clark 36:46
Do you just wanna put them in your pocket, Freddie? Oh, sorry. We’re in Freddie's office
cause my room, somebody was in my room.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 37:02
Really?
Kathleen Clark 37:03
They were....We're almost done, anyhow.
F
Freddy (security) 37:09
If we can change his was, I'd appreicate that.
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
Page 21
2018
of 25
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 37:17
That’s my big brother right there. You know, always telling me what I need to do…
(laughing) And cause…because he did it the right way, because I did it the wrong way. I
did it the different way all my day and all that….so yeah, like I say, you know. That was,
you know, that would be, you know, like I say. I don't know because I think this is all about
getting what I can get, keep on moving and go to the next spot and you know, I don't
think they have any hard….. You know far as you know cuz what’ll come out of their
mouth is all nicotine. (mumbling) Don't believe they have that, so you know, they lost…
so…That's right, that's right, you know make it any better there, just go the way they go.
Kathleen Clark 38:30
Well, as far as about the health commons, I think I asked most of my questions, but is
there something you want to add that I haven't asked? Or in general?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 38:42
No, but like I said, I wish you’d get a bigger place. And a whole lotta nurses, so they can
just go down the line. And me sittin’ over there waiting cause……but like I said, I'm gonna
try and get out here because I don't think I'm gonna be in no more than another year. I
been saving some money, and I saving some money….
Kathleen Clark 39:08
Well, and I mean, even talking about that for a while.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 39:11
Yeah, but we gotta save our money too. I can do something with that. I got 740-something
or something.
Kathleen Clark 39:24
we would be super sad to see you leave but also really healthy and
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 39:29
Well, I keep saying that, you know, I am so glad I see you. I didn’t even know where you
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
Page 22
2018
of 25
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
was at. What, they keep saying….’oh it’s over here…’ you know that, oh this is it…ohhhh…
TV room, you know what they was doing in there. Cussing and drinking, and it was, that’s
probably what made Red leave. Because he told me, it was time.
Kathleen Clark 39:59
Yeah. And then somebody gave him more money, so he was gone, you know. So like I say,
you know. That's annoying and then, you know, damn. You know, you gotta put movies in
there for people to watch. Yeah.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 40:14
Then everybody wanna fight over the movies and the cussing and drinking and they don't,
you know drunk early in the morning, you know. That's, that's what probably, what ran him
away. And I didn't get his number before he left.
Kathleen Clark 40:31
Well, is there any…. oh? Freddie has it…. he's right there. Yeah. That's okay. Ummm, as far
as. (coughing) Ummmm. Yeah, just trying to think what I was gonna say. Yeah, so as far as
people who are experiencing homelessness if you had to say one thing that they need,
can you can you think of one thing, that if we were to work on what would that be?
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 41:05
They would need this place here. I know that. So they can least try to slow down their
lifestyle because when you drinking and drugging, and you're sleeping outside, you're
going to die.
Kathleen Clark 41:23
That's true
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 41:25
Then there’s an (mumbling) in your …then your outside. (coughing) Oh, then just getting
somebody too….I don’t know if it’s tutor? Or some kind of class like, another class. It could
be a class be similar to what Pastor Melissa did, when we start having these uh? These
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
Page 23
2018
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
meetings on 3rd Street places.
Kathleen Clark 41:56
Street Voices of Change.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 41:57
Yeah. Do something like that everybody's gonna be a part of. It won't be about the whole,
what it does and even so many people that can take care of feet and someone else can
do some nails, a bigger place, where you can move around, you know, walking in, you
know without bumping into each other, things like that. Yeah, something like that doesn't
you know then….They go get it, you know, would be a little more. You know how would
you see that how would you? How would I say that? You know follow them you know going
to get something, and they know it's for them. You know, they need they need it, you know
because the doctor told you ‘A man, if you keep drinkin, you're gonna die.’ You know, you
know. You got to make sure you got clothes. If your feet is bothering you, you gotta get
them checked and you know things like that, you know. Like I say. We gotta control. It's
not just the elements and you know the people I mean. The lawmakers you know I've been
up there on Capitol Hill last year, and I didn't go this time. I wasn’t dealin’ with that. You
know, because it was like an animal house. When we went the first, last year and I was
doing and I was like oh no, I can't do this. You know there's just too many people. You know
I'm like how you gonna get something done. Yeah with all these people so I was like damn
I'm done that was my last time, first and last so. Like I said now really made my mind up of
what I want to do. I'm going I'm gonna go somewhere where it's warm. I don't have
problems or anything I gonna wear shorts and t-shirts and sandals or whatever the case
may be but I'm not gonna be freezing. But like I say and I probably have to go somewhere
to like a manicure, for the feet or whatever. But they don't have that, you know, but I'm
pretty sure they should have that because women love big toes and stuff done. You know
like deals and….Yeah, I used to pay for that, when I was dealing with a woman. Lord have
mercy. I got to sit up with them women. And your toes done. Oh man, and I'll be able to
sleep. (laughing) It's time to go, you finished? Now finally…. Yeah. Yeah, but this was like I
say it’s been a godsend. Oh, I really appreciate it is. I was shocking you know, how it could,
it did a little. That's there’s something better, less something you know, to help out a little
bit. You know and like I said we got to you know, we got to kill that language, you know,
especially when you bring in the kids…. You know.
Kathleen Clark 45:17
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
Page 24
2018
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Sure.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 45:18
You don’t want your kids to hear that. We can't just leave our kids, out in all
this…..cause….this is ….out of control. we have to take a whiz the first thing is anyway.
You don't want to… We'll have to work on that for sure. Yeah. We can’t just leave our kids,
we gotta take ‘em with us. You know. The first thing they say…. (mumbling)You know, so
you don’t have no choice. You know, so that’s basically it. You know. I sure do appreciate
your kindness.
Kathleen Clark 45:57
Thank you so much, and thank you for taking time to do this so that's all the questions I
have.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 46:02
That's all, not the same, you don't know.. what they are you know. We’d be lost. That’s the
truth. It’s a good thing, we have Mary Jo's, you know the Dorothy Day…you don’t know
what there are. Dorothy Day, they let you sleep on mats in there. Mary Jo, she's feed you
two times a day. You know and give you…Tokens…..Money. You know. Like I say, they just
be, you know feeding up on that. You know. Like getting that like that's water. You know
we drinking it out of the faucet. Yeah, you know so it's just so you know, some of us out
here, is real but majority of us is not. So you have to be able to weed out the bad from the
good….
Kathleen Clark 46:58
And you’re definitely one of the good. Thank You LA.
L
Lee Anthony Cosby 47:02
You welcome.
Oral History Interview with Lee Anthony Cosby,
Page 25
2018
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021)
Thu, 3/25 6:41PM
22:09
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, commons, health, augsburg, treat, feel, providing, dnp, practicum, minnesota, community,
pandemic, experience, lived, working, poorly, interacted, program, addiction, university
SPEAKERS
Isaac Tadé, J... Show more
Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021)
Thu, 3/25 6:41PM
22:09
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, commons, health, augsburg, treat, feel, providing, dnp, practicum, minnesota, community,
pandemic, experience, lived, working, poorly, interacted, program, addiction, university
SPEAKERS
Isaac Tadé, Jenna Nelson
I
Isaac Tadé 00:01
Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the Augsburg University
central health commons. My name is Isaac Tadé, and I'm a student at Augsburg
University. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording and tell us what your
position is? Or was at the university?
J
Jenna Nelson 00:20
Yeah, my name is Jenna Nelson. I am a DNP FNP student in my third year at Augsburg
University, and I'm also working as an intern with the health commons.
I
Isaac Tadé 00:36
Okay, great. Thank you. Before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent
to being interviewed and having that interview stored at Augsburg University, which will
be made available to the public.
J
Jenna Nelson 00:48
Yes, I consent to that.
Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021)
Page 1 of 13
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
I
Isaac Tadé 00:50
Okay. Thank you. Can you tell me where you grew up? And who you call family?
J
Jenna Nelson 00:56
Yeah, so my dad was in the Air Force. And so I grew up on Air Force bases. We lived in
Okinawa, Japan. We lived in Hawaii for four years. And then we lived in Fort Walton
Beach, Florida. And then we moved to Rochester, Minnesota, where I ended up doing High
School. And I was adopted when I was three months old from Chile. So yeah, my family is
my older brother, Tony, also adopted from Chile a few years before I was from a different
family. And then my parents who are, my dad's from Brainerd, Minnesota, so really
Minnesotan and my mom's more Western, Claire City, Minnesota, a small farming town.
So yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:42
Great. Thank you. How did you end up at Augsburg University.
J
Jenna Nelson 01:46
So, I like the Twin Cities. I went to the University of Minnesota for my undergrad. And I
heard a lot of good things about Augsburg from other people that I've met living up here.
And then I worked for about 10 years after I graduated with my Rn, and wanted to live
back in Minneapolis. So it just kind of was close. And I liked how the program sounded.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:14
Great. Thank you. How did you become involved with Health Commons?
J
Jenna Nelson 02:18
So for one of my classes for the DNP FNP program, Katie was the instructor and part of
the class was to kind of actually be involved in the community and see different ways you
can work with community members. And so one of the places she told us about this, the
Health Commons, and we can get practicum hours for it too. So that's kind of how we got
started with it.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:46
Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021)
Page 2 of 13
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Okay. And what can you tell me about your experience at Health Commons so far?
J
Jenna Nelson 02:51
so far, it's kind of crazy this last year, because things changed with the pandemic, pretty
significantly. But before the pandemic, it seemed fairly busy, you know, you could see
there's a need for this. And just kind of the relationships I saw Katie have with people who
come here frequently, even interacting with people that are new to the Health Commons
using some of those kind of services that they provide. I just think it's really important work
she's doing. It's needed in the community, and it would be awesome if there were more
places like this in most communities, because there's a need really, for this.
I
Isaac Tadé 03:37
How long have you been at Health Commons?
J
Jenna Nelson 03:40
I think I did start in 2018. I volunteered a little bit after I did some practicum hours here.
And then I was free. I took a year off from school. And then when I started again, that
summer, I came back so I think it was summer of 2019. I came and volunteered a couple
times. And then with the internship, right when I saw that email, I kind of jumped on it and
said I want to do it. So I was fortunate I get picked.
I
Isaac Tadé 04:07
So you're here again!
J
Jenna Nelson 04:08
Yeah, I am here now, yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 04:10
Okay. How was Health Commons presented to fit in with your curriculum? And how well
do you think your experience at Health Commons relates to what you were learning?
J
Jenna Nelson 04:20
Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021)
Page 3 of 13
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Yeah, so the Health Commons was, again, the Augsburg DNP FNP program specifically
wants to focus on holistic community health. Family Nurse Practitioners are meant to
provide preventative health care to community members. And, you know, the U.S. doesn't
have a universal health care system. Obviously, there's huge groups of people who are not
getting primary care, preventative care, even just kind of basic health counseling. So this
kind of fit into that part of this program where they really wanted to emphasize being
involved in the community, working directly with the people that you're serving, and kind
of addressing those underlying problems with certain groups of people not getting the
care that, you know, they need.
I
Isaac Tadé 04:54
So it sounds like the curriculum has really aligned with the mission of Health Commons
here.
J
Jenna Nelson 05:23
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I would say the, and vice versa, too. I guess that would
make sense. But yeah, this is really, I think the direction that they want to go with this
specific program, the FNP DNP program. And I would say it's, it might be one of the only
kind of parts of the program that really do. Like, it's it is what it says it is. It's not... I feel
like sometimes programs can kind of, you know, they try to advertise, and they say, "We
do this, we're involved in this," but then you're in the program, and you're like, "You do that
for an hour, like one semester." That's not what you signed up for. But I feel like this is
definitely kind of what they're preaching in the program.
I
Isaac Tadé 06:06
So walking the walk?
J
Jenna Nelson 06:07
In action, yes.
I
Isaac Tadé 06:08
Yeah. Okay, thank you. How did your experience at Health Commons fit or challenge your
expectations?
Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021)
Page 4 of 13
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
J
Jenna Nelson 06:17
Um, I would say it challenged my expectations. It kind of fit it, too. I mean, so working with
people directly, especially people who've been marginalized, treated poorly by healthcare
providers, and basically anybody who, you know, works with a certain entity, like a
hospital or the government or something, I feel like, people are pretty, not defensive, but
just cautious around new people. And so I guess I was surprised that people coming to
Health Commons and using its services were as open as they were, to me. And then every
now and then I would be surprised and taken aback if somebody...if I did something or
said something that offended someone really strongly. But yeah, I guess it kind of was
what I thought it would be. Which is good. Because, you know, like I said, a lot of times,
people say that they're doing something, and it involves all these details, and then you do,
and that's not really what they said it was, and this was exactly, you know, working with
people directly and meeting them where they're at.
I
Isaac Tadé 07:24
And you said that a lot of people met you and trusted you and accepted the care that you
were providing. Which wasn't your expectation? What do you think it was that made you
approachable? As a health care provider?
J
Jenna Nelson 07:44
Yeah, specifically in this environment, I would just say...Katie, pretty much. They trust Katie,
a lot of people here really trust Katie, and they really don't trust anyone else that is
"providing". I'm doing quotes, you're providing services for them. But I think because of the
direct relation and where I'm coming from. That might have been why. Also, usually when
I meet people, I'm fairly quiet, and I try to let them direct the conversation or the
interaction. So that might help.
I
Isaac Tadé 08:22
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing. Did you feel as though people felt welcomed into
this space? Do you have any suggestions on how we could do that better? You've already
touched on this a little bit.
J
Jenna Nelson 08:36
Yeah, I think they do (feel welcomed). And again, the pandemic makes it, it really
complicates things in terms of people feeling welcomed. Just because you can only have
Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021)
Page 5 of 13
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
so many people in the room at one time and then because other people are waiting to
come in. They can only, kind of, spend so much time there. We try not to rush anyone out.
But yeah, it's I think it would have been interesting to be here a lot more before the
pandemic to see.
I
Isaac Tadé 09:04
The contrast.
J
Jenna Nelson 09:05
Yeah, but I felt like when the Health Commons was in that trailer in the parking lot, like a
long time ago, before the church had finished its renovations, even though it was a tiny,
cramped space, it felt super welcoming. Like it felt like a good vibe. You walk in there and
you know people, it seemed like people felt like they could be there and they were
comfortable.
I
Isaac Tadé 09:27
Okay, what strengths did you learn of, or hear from the people that you met?
J
Jenna Nelson 09:34
Um, people I met working or just people using the services ?
I
Isaac Tadé 09:39
Probably both, yeah.
J
Jenna Nelson 09:43
Well, yeah. I guess for the people that are coming in here that are either currently
experiencing homelessness or have, a lot of the strengths are just you know, they're
resilient. They still see the good in people even though they've been treated poorly. And
hearing some of their stories to like, you know, a lot of institutionalized, like racism or just
being treated poorly in all these different avenues. And yeah, they're very resilient. So
that's good to see. And then the people working here, I would just say, their strengths are
that they keep an open mind. And I don't see a lot of people here at all acting as if they
know more than the people seeking services. It's kind of like, more of an even playing field
versus going into like a clinic and seeing a primary care doctor or nurse practitioner.
Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021)
Page 6 of 13
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Nobody's... I feel like nobody's really being talked down to they're just having
conversations.
I
Isaac Tadé 10:50
The relationships between people providing services and people receiving them are often
mutually beneficial. Would you say?
J
Jenna Nelson 10:57
Definitely, yeah. And and I think it's very transparent that that's the case too, I don't think,
yeah. That's nice. That's true.
I
Isaac Tadé 11:06
Thank you. How has this experience changed any biases you may have had about
homelessness, or marginalized housed individually? individuals? Excuse me.
J
Jenna Nelson 11:20
So like working in the emergency department, I've interacted with people that are
experiencing homelessness or experiencing addiction, or, you know, they have
experienced homelessness. And I think this just kind of helps me have more experience
working with people who might have had those lived experiences.
I
Isaac Tadé 11:45
Do any stories come to mind? Um, I'm about bias or...
J
Jenna Nelson 11:52
like, well, I guess something,
I
Isaac Tadé 11:54
Maybe something that changed your perspective?
J
Jenna Nelson 11:56
Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021)
Page 7 of 13
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
I guess some stuff. Just interacting with people here and like people opening up the
people seeking services, I think I became more comfortable caring for that population in
the ER. Like, I didn't realize that I wasn't comfortable with it, or I didn't realize that I was
like, I was maybe just not, I don't even know, opening up enough. Like when you're a nurse,
and you're working with a patient who comes to the ER, for example, like you can tell if
they want to interact with you a lot. They can tell if you want to narrate their care. And
sometimes when people would come in and they were homeless, I just would leave them
alone, because I was like, "Oh, they're tired, they're resting or like, I'm just gonna wait for,
you know, when we get the results back from their labs are x ray." But after being here, I
realize no, I mean, each individual is different, regardless of whether or not they're housed
or homeless or suffering from addiction. And so then I feel like I was more open to letting
them kind of run the show in terms of how the interaction would happen. And I remember,
like, after doing some volunteering at the Health Commons, I was working in the
emergency department. And this guy came in and he was missing, I think he was missing
all the toes on one of his foot. And the other foot, he was missing almost all of them too.
There like there were two left. And he had just gotten off a bus from...it was either
Mississippi or Louisiana. Literally the community that was serving him down there gave
him a bus pass and said, "You can go wherever you want." And so he said, "I came to
Minnesota, because I've heard they have really good resources up here. They treat people
well." And I think it was a middle of winter too. And I'm just like, oh my God. So he had
come in because he was having like, some pain in his foot. He had a little bit of an ulcer
who was diabetic. So the wound healing was poor. And like, I got him a bunch of warm
blankets. And I was like, "Do you want anything to eat?" I got him some food, some
emergency room food, which isn't great, but I got him food. And I think every time I came
in there, he was just like, taken aback, like, Is this real? And so I wonder how he's how he
was treated previously, you know, in emergency room settings or in other healthcare type
settings. But it was really funny. Like, I think he he thought I was like, I don't know, like,
super nice. I'm like, "No, this is how we treat people here, you know, typically."
I
Isaac Tadé 14:13
So it sounds like originally, you had just kind of interacted with the population when
necessary to provide the care.
J
Jenna Nelson 14:25
Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 14:25
Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021)
Page 8 of 13
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
And now it seems as though you've kind of gone past that maybe eliminated some of
those biases that you didn't even know you had.
J
Jenna Nelson 14:33
Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 14:34
And you're more interactive with the population, which provides better, like relationships
for you. And probably better care as well.
J
Jenna Nelson 14:43
Exactly. Yeah. Like I think, just working with other people in general, especially when
related to their health. It's like...you kind of have to step back and look at what your role is
and how you might appear to them. And I think I didn't want to be a bother. A lot of times
when people were coming in, because again, I was like this is their only time where they're
getting, like shelter for maybe four or five hours or something like that. So I would just
want to leave them alone. But then exactly like, the more I actually was here and had
conversations with people, the more I recognize that it depends on the person, but a lot of
people are craving like social interaction. And this is one of the places where they would
get it would be like a health care setting.
I
Isaac Tadé 15:30
Wow, that's beautiful. Thank you. How would you suggest we can better accompany
people on their journey of health, for example, adding more hours or adding outreach
services?
J
Jenna Nelson 15:46
Adding more hours would be good. I know that takes people and money and time and
stuff. But yeah, I think adding more hours and locations, which was mentioned before, too.
And yeah, like being involved with the encampments, as well as, you know, providing
meals. With the COVID, providing immunizations, if we have some bringing it out to them
versus expecting them to come here. But yeah, basically just being more even more visible
in the community than they already are, would be good.
Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021)
Page 9 of 13
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
I
Isaac Tadé 16:21
Outreach more?
J
Jenna Nelson 16:22
Yeah, yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 16:23
Okay. What, if anything, will you take forward with you, from your experience? For
example, has this experience impacted your future career ideas or personal goals? What
was the most valuable part of your experience? Actually, I'll just ask that first question.
What, if anything, will you take forward with you from this experience,
J
Jenna Nelson 16:49
Um, just, again, that people are extraordinarily resilient, like mentally, physically, and that,
again, everybody has a story, and everybody has a reason for being the way that they
are. And even if it comes off as harsh or rude, or, like, you know, they're having a really
bad time. So just keeping that in mind, not taking things personally, and trying to, you
know, individually, respond to somebody versus assuming, making kind of stereotypes you
know, about what they might need, based on how they look. I mean, when I look at
someone, now I look at them, and I'm like, I have no idea what they want, I need to I need
to communicate with them. Whereas before, I might have made assumptions. Is that a
practice that you learned here? Or through Augsburg orsomething else? Definitely, with
the programs. I think it's 803 is the class, I can't remember 802 or 803. But yeah, like, any
of the practicum hours that we did, especially with the Health Commons, I feel like kind of
foster that. So.
I
Isaac Tadé 18:01
Okay, thank you. What was the most valuable part of this experience?
J
Jenna Nelson 18:08
So far, I think it's been seeing, like, the relationships that Katie has with people and then
just having time to work with people here. I think it's just, you know, things take time. And
to have the chance to do this is awesome, especially to get like, you know, do the
internship is amazing. I would have volunteered regardless, but to have an internship to
Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021)
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for students is awesome. Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 18:37
What was most useful to you?
J
Jenna Nelson 18:41
I'm probably having Katie, as a, I'd say mentor, like somebody I can ask questions to. And I
don't have to be afraid that maybe I just sounded like I'm stereotyping someone. Like it's
a very open conversation. And if I have questions about, you know, how she interacts with
people when they treat her a certain way, I know, it's an open space. I don't know what
they call it in the woke community.
I
Isaac Tadé 19:07
Like a safe space space. Yeah. for learning and for...
J
Jenna Nelson 19:10
Yeah, yeah, there's not... I feel really confident too that there's not judgment. It's more like,
okay, like, open your mind. We're learning together here. So, yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 19:20
Wow, that's beautiful. What do you think Health Commons could do better? Is there
anything missing?
J
Jenna Nelson 19:27
Um, I don't know. That's a good question. I would have to think about that. Okay. But I
mean, yeah, it's just sometimes I like the idea of telling people they can only take so many
things like the whole...I think...
I
Isaac Tadé 19:47
Limited resources?
Jenna Nelson 19:48
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J
Jenna Nelson 19:48
Yeah. It's the limited resources and the reason for it is because there's limited resources
Funding and like, yeah. But no, I think, again, outreach and of promoting their existence
so people know they're here, is good in the community.
I
Isaac Tadé 19:52
Funding, yeah Is there anything that you would change about the internship experience?
J
Jenna Nelson 20:12
Um, I don't think so. No, I, I think it's gone really well. It's nice and convenient to be able to
schedule online. We have that too. So, no, that's good.
I
Isaac Tadé 20:24
Okay. Is there any specific story you would share that stuck with you, from your
experience at Health Commons?
J
Jenna Nelson 20:38
Initially when I was doing 803, and volunteering and getting practicum hours, I think it was
2017 or 2018. But I did an oral history for a gentlemen that frequently came to the Health
Commons. And I talked to him for about 45 minutes. And once I was typing it up, typing up
the transcript, I realized, like... I don't know, some of the stuff that he'd been through was
like, he had no control over it. And he had suffered from alcoholism. And he was treated
really poorly in a lot of environments because of his history of addiction. And it was just
another example of like, how issues with addiction and at least our community, I want to
say generally our country, probably worldwide, are just, I mean, we really need to work on
how we treat people with addiction issues.
I
Isaac Tadé 21:36
We punish rather than treat.
J
Jenna Nelson 21:38
Yeah, and I mean even...Yeah, definitely we do that.
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I
Isaac Tadé 21:43
Yeah. Okay. Is there anything else that you'd like to add that we haven't talked about?
J
Jenna Nelson 21:55
No, I don't think so.
I
Isaac Tadé 21:57
Okay, I think this concludes our oral history. Thank you so much.
J
Jenna Nelson 22:03
Yes. You're welcome. Thanks.
Oral History with Jenna Nelson (2021)
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Show less
Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021)
Thu, 4/8 5:57PM
33:10
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, augsburg, commons, health, pandemic, haircut, internship, community, person, dentistry,
katie, intern, homeless, life, dental, assume, site, dentist, encampment, evicted
SPEAKERS
Kathleen Clark, Isaac Ta... Show more
Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021)
Thu, 4/8 5:57PM
33:10
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, augsburg, commons, health, pandemic, haircut, internship, community, person, dentistry,
katie, intern, homeless, life, dental, assume, site, dentist, encampment, evicted
SPEAKERS
Kathleen Clark, Isaac Tadé
Kathleen Clark 00:03
Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the Augsburg University
central health Commons. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor of nursing.
Could you please introduce yourself for the recording and tell us what your position is at
the university?
I
Isaac Tadé 00:20
Hello, my name is Isaac Tadé. And I am a student intern with Augsburg Health Commons
at Central Lutheran Church in downtown Minneapolis.
Kathleen Clark 00:35
Wonderful, and what year are you in the undergrad?
I
Isaac Tadé 00:39
I am a senior in the undergrad at Augsburg studying biology and with a minor in religion.
Kathleen Clark 00:46
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And do you know what you'll be doing when you're done?
I
Isaac Tadé 00:49
I do. After I finished this year, I'll be starting dental school in the fall. Fall 2021 at the
University of Minnesota School of Dentistry.
Kathleen Clark 01:01
And what are the internships called that you're doing?
I
Isaac Tadé 01:05
I am a Christensen scholars intern through the Christensen scholars program at Augsburg
Kathleen Clark 01:12
And then I think you added another internship was that one through the Strommen center.
Is that correct?
I
Isaac Tadé 01:18
That's correct.
Kathleen Clark 01:19
Excellent. Yes.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:20
Double intern this year. Yeah.
Kathleen Clark 01:23
And that, that for me and my role is exciting because you're the first Strommen intern
we've ever had.
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I
Isaac Tadé 01:31
The guinea pig.
Kathleen Clark 01:33
Right, so great. Before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being
interviewed and having the interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made
available to the public.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:45
Yes, I consent. Great.
Kathleen Clark 01:48
So just to start off, can you tell me a little bit about where you grew up and who you call
family?
I
Isaac Tadé 01:54
For sure. So I'm originally from in Ngaoundéré, Cameroon. That's where I was born. And
my family moved to the United States when I was four years old. We lived with my
grandmother at their lake home in Bad Lake Minnesota for a summer before moving to
Walcott, North Dakota, a small town of 200 people. I went to high school oil, middle
school and Kindred, North Dakota. And then I moved to Windham, Minnesota, big town
life of 5004 for high school, and that's kind of where I went to high school. And then
bouncing around there, I decided to come to Augsburg because I wanted to be in a larger
city. And I really was interested in the diversity here. And Augsburg was a D3 school where
I could be involved with a lot of things such as the track team, cross country, the choir,
things like that. So that's kind of what I've done. That's why I'm here.
Kathleen Clark 03:11
Did Augsburg meet those expectations for you?
I
Isaac Tadé 03:14
Yeah, Yes, it did. Augsburg delivered, and then something I've really enjoyed my time here.
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Yeah, I only have positive things to say about about Augsburg again. And I love where I'm
at. So that's kind of a part of why I've decided to stay in Minneapolis for the next four
years for dental school. So I love it here.
Kathleen Clark 03:36
How did you become involved or hear about the health commons?
I
Isaac Tadé 03:41
So through Christensen scholars, we are given an internship, and it was who was it the
internship kind of director?
Kathleen Clark 03:56
Jeremey Meyers
I
Isaac Tadé 03:57
There we go. Thank you. Jeremy Meyers, kind of forwarded in emails saying that there was
this potential opportunity to intern at health commons working with people who face to
come from different disparities and who, yeah, and just kind of do health care work. And
that's really interested me and I wanted to get into the field more, and work with real
people. So that's where the connection was made. And then he introduced me to you,
Katie. And from there, we've just kind of brainstormed how this internship would work. And
this semester, I've been coming in person to help calm and site. Through the pandemic.
I've been blessed that I've been able to work with real people, and not just computer
screens. Yeah, so that's how I got to help doctors.
Kathleen Clark 04:58
And then you've also been involved With the pre dental club, can you tell me a little bit
about that as well?
I
Isaac Tadé 05:06
Yeah, so I've been with the pre dental club since I first came to Augsburg, and I'm currently
the president of the Student Organization. Essentially, I want to give other people the
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opportunity to access things such as volunteer hours, information about dentistry, how to
apply and things like that. That's kind of what the club does. But through health commons,
we've been able to do a couple different events, we've done a clothing drive. That,
basically, yeah, we brought in a bunch of clothes and, and help distribute those out,
bringing them to health commons and stuff. And pre dental volunteers came along with
that. But we also got dental supplies, toothbrushes, floss tooth toothpaste, from the
University of Minnesota School of Dentistry, and brought them to health commons, were
we made health kits, and distributed those out as well, while helping lead people to their
vaccine site when those are available, so that was, I think that was a really great
opportunity for pre dental students to just get some more volunteering hours and to, you
know, just talk about what are some of the needs that the community has? While we're in
person, you know, and having these conversations with the people who are affected by it.
Kathleen Clark 06:49
Can you tell me about your experiences at the health commons?
I
Isaac Tadé 06:53
Absolutely, it's been very insightful, I think that would be the best word. I think I've since
moving to the city, I've always seen homeless people around. So when I would go running
on the Greenway, or downtown or by the river, I would always see people who are facing
housing insecurity. And I always just felt bad. And I never really knew what to do, even
when you go to the grocery store, you know, there's usually someone on the corner or
something, asking for ways to just get by. And so I always feel bad, but I never really know
how I can help or how I can be useful. And so I think this experience has been really
insightful. Because before I really thought that, you know, I needed to get my degree. And
through that paperwork, you know, I would have the tools necessary to make a change,
but that's really not the case. I think, each day, if you just bring a positive attitude, if you
are approachable, if you are hospitable. If you are friendly, and and humanizing, you can
really make a difference, and to people, even if it's just listening to them and having a
conversation. It's helping someone else's life. And I think that's really a beautiful thing. So I
think that's kind of been my experience at health comments. Um, it's been really insightful.
I think that's kind of where my mindset has switched a little bit.
Kathleen Clark 08:44
So has the health commons, been able to fit into some of the course content you've had?
As far as are you? Do you find time that you're like, Oh, this is what I would learn at the
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health commons. And now I'm reading about it in class.
I
Isaac Tadé 09:04
Yeah, I think so. I mean, just generally speaking, our experience mission is to, to see and to
serve the neighbor to live with the neighbor. And like I said, being in the city, your
neighbors, often homeless people. And so just being aware of that, I think is a big step.
And I think that really fits into how Augsburg does about its admission. In the Christiensen
Scholars Program, we're reading a book called vintage sinners and saints. And it's
basically talking about like, everyday people who have glorified God. Through struggle
and through strife and through depression and through old pression So it's just this idea
that every person is like a two sided coin, we often see like these glorified figures, but we
don't take into the consideration of what their human life is really like, you know,
recognizing that people are just human. And I think that two sided coin is very much
present with every one of us, you know, we can't just see the best in people, we can't just
see the saint. There's also a center behind behind that, that mask, and we can't just
assume that someone is a full, fully a sinner, either. And so yeah, I think that's kind of how I
see our curriculum in the program being implemented in our, in our work at Christiansen
are at the health calmness, because we can't make those assumptions that a person is
fully one or the other work. We're complicated.
Kathleen Clark 11:04
So do you feel as though people feel welcomed in this space? And do you have any
suggestions on how we could welcome people better?
I
Isaac Tadé 11:13
For sure, um, from what I've seen, people are really treated as fully human at health
commons, people are welcomed in with a lot of hospitality. And with a lot of grace and
with little to no judgment. And with little to no questions or pressure of their, excuse me,
current circumstances. That's from what I've seen, people are met with like a level
headedness. And there's no condescending attitude. So I think health comments does a
really good job at that. And when I started, Katie, you talk to me about those things. And
you talked about how we don't judge here, and we just try to meet the needs of the people
where they're at. And we can't assume we know what their needs are. Those things are
really important. And I think health commons does an excellent job at that.
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Kathleen Clark 12:17
What strengths did you learn of or hear from people that you've met?
I
Isaac Tadé 12:23
Yeah, I think there are so many people in the homeless community who are absolutely
hilarious. They're just so funny, and they're just bright, and funky. And just like, fun people.
And I think that humor is an excellent way of showing resilience, and of bringing light into
situations or lives that might otherwise be very difficult. And so that's one thing I've really
noticed about some of the strengths that people have. I think the homeless community,
they really understand their own needs to they they see from a certain perspective that
that person like myself, who hasn't experienced homelessness just doesn't have a
perspective that I don't have. They talk about how things can improve physically, with
their mental health with maybe dependency with spirituality, a lot of social issues they
often discuss in detail. And with solutions, it's it's incredible how some of these people
aren't politicians, because it seems like everyone has an answer. So I think they have a
certain perspective, and they understand their own needs. Very well. Yeah.
Kathleen Clark 14:14
So has this experience changed any biases or thoughts that you might have had about
people experiencing homelessness, or who were marginally housed?
I
Isaac Tadé 14:24
Yeah, for sure. Um, I think I'm learning a lot more about this country. While I'm learning
about people experiencing homelessness from this country, I realized that it has
oftentimes very little forgiveness. One time offenses can land you in jail, which means you
have a massive stain on you and your record and it follows you throughout your entire life
which is unfortunate preventing you from Getting a job housing insurance. Even seeking
health care becomes difficult sometimes because of these things that are often
misdemeanors. So yeah, I think oftentimes people think, well, if you're homeless, you
deserve it. And why don't you just get out of your own situation, everyone has a hard life.
Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, this is America, you should be able to get things done.
But that's just not how it works. There are so many alternative circumstances that that
affect people. And, and as individuals at the time, they may not have the resources to pull
themselves out. Um, and this country really isn't forgiving of that. For example, I talked to
a woman outside of target. A few days ago, I brought her some granola bars. And she had
said that she was working, I think it was staples, or something like that. And then, at the
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beginning of the pandemic, she lived with her boyfriend. But the staples closed because of
the pandemic, and budget cuts, and they just couldn't afford to stay open any longer at
that time. And so, because of that, she was already pretty short on cash from kind of just
working this minimum wage job with her boyfriend, and then they weren't able to afford
housing in the city, because it's expensive. And so they were evicted. And then from there,
through the eviction process, they lost a lot of their paperwork, and contacts. And it very
important thing such as like, social, social security card, and I think she even lost her
wallet. And so she wasn't able to apply for funding like assistance funding, or she wasn't
able to look for another job. And the pandemic was just raging on, so no one was
employed anyways. And everyone she knew, was basically out of reach just because of
personal reasons. And she couldn't go visit her mother asked for help, because her mother
was in like a nursing home. And so there are those bills to pay as well. So huge, that she
had no choice but to be homeless, and be out on the street asking for money, you know,
and but I think we just assume, in this society that your life is totally in your own hands to
control. And I think that's just not the case, oftentimes, so just trying to be more forgiving.
And I wish this country was more forgiving, too. That's what I'm learning.
Kathleen Clark 18:18
Do you have any suggestions on how we could better accompany people on their journey
of health? Or have you seen anyone be accompanied on their journey of health?
I
Isaac Tadé 18:34
Yeah, I think just considering health is, well, it should be well rounded. Including things. I
mean, physical, mental, spiritual. Health commons does a pretty good job of covering the
spiritual and physical right, we have nurses, and we have spiritual leaders in the
community in the church. But you know, there, and I suppose they cover the social as well.
But I think there's just there's more to it. Um, we could talk about, you know, financial, Can
Can we have a financial adviser, or, or a social worker or someone with job assistance? I
know and I don't know the full workings of, you know, how it comes or whatever. But yeah,
I think it's just important to consider the whole person.
Kathleen Clark 19:42
So what, if anything, will you take forward from this experience? For example, has
anything impacted your future career or personal goals? Or what has been? Yeah, just
most valuable or useful to you?
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I
Isaac Tadé 19:57
Yeah, I think one of the most important lessons Just to never judge someone based on the
position that they're in, and never assume that I know what's going on in their life, or that I
can pin their existence down to one or two mistakes in their life or one or two events in
their lives. People are so much more than that. For example, I was talking to a person that
health Thomas who goes there for services. And he told me about this story when he was
riding the light rail, and it was a domestic abuse situation. And he asked this woman Well,
why do you? Why do you take this? Why do you keep letting this guy abuse you? And he
said, she said, it was better to get abused by one man than by 12. And so that just blew his
mind. It's like, well, you want the best for this lady. Okay? If he if he were to cut this guy off,
that's her protection from these 11 other, you know, 12 other dudes who could be messing
her life up even worse. And so that really taught me quite bluntly, to never assume you
know, the best in someone's situation and never assume you have their situation figured
out. I think it's always important to ask how you can be of service, what needs Do you
have today that I can meet? I think that's a good way to approach conversation. I'm in
service, yeah, a conversation in service. I also will just be, I really want to go into
community health from this point forward. Like I said, I've always felt like I I noticed people
who are marginalized, and I feel bad for them. And then it used to be that I, I just, it just
stops there. I just stop and I feel bad. And then, you know, I get over it. But I think at this
point, I really want to continue my impact. And I would love to work in a community
health setting in the future as a dentist, and maybe even go to public health school. And I
don't know, we'll see. But I'm just really interested in the community health dynamic. And I
think that's where my heart and skill sets kind of best meet the needs. That I see. If Katie, if
you ever see me do cosmetic dentistry, if you ever see me just like doing veneers and like
tooth whitening, something had gotten very wrong, because I don't want to be a strip mall
dentist, if that makes sense. And that's just not who I want to be. So he ever seen me on a
strip mall? Today's teeth in the suburbs that asked me a few questions about how life is
going. So that's just who I am.
Kathleen Clark 23:40
So can you tell me a little bit too, like I know, for the whole year, you're able to be
Christiansen scholar intern. But then this semester, you came on board, like I said earlier
and through the Strommen center as our first intern as the health commons engagement
specialist. So given that, you know, used to do three hours a week, and now you're doing a
significant amount of more, what has this internship on top of your original internship
allowed you to do?
Isaac Tadé 24:13
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I
Isaac Tadé 24:13
Yeah, absolutely. So being in person at health commons. This semester as the engagement
specialist, I've been able to expand on the things I was doing last year last semester, doing
things such as the oral histories, just telling the stories of the people at health comments.
I've been doing a lot of volunteer recruitment, through the pre dental club, just to kind of
help Come out, come out and do some of the things that I'm already doing. But just with
more numbers, also aiding in COVID-19 vaccine recruitment. We've had a couple days at
health commons where we've been fortunate to distribute out vaccines and Volunteers are
needed. So those things have all been really impactful for me and have really helped me
to kind of ground myself, I think, at the health commons being useful and being of service.
And then with my, I suppose free, free time outside of the internship, I've been just reading
different pieces that kind of enhance my understanding of the work. I'm actually doing.
One of those reading Evicted by Matt Desmond, I read that earlier this semester. And
yeah, those are those are the things I've been doing with my time.
Kathleen Clark 25:43
And where are you? Have you ever been able to go to the encampments at all?
I
Isaac Tadé 25:47
Yes, that's another thing. We were able to visit the encampments, just to see what
circumstances were like there and to help distribute out water and food and some other
supplies that that were needed there.
Kathleen Clark 26:02
And what was your thoughts leaving the encampment?
I
Isaac Tadé 26:08
My thoughts were essentially that there, their encampment community was, is just
integrated right into the city. It's like It's its own little corner, in a neighborhood. And it's so
present, like, it's, it's right there, it's visible, it's in someone's backyard. And yet, like these
inhumane conditions, are so visible, and yet, the problems aren't solved, the problems
aren't seen, if that makes sense. So that kind of is what shocked me, just how present the
community was, and how detached I think our society is from it.
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Kathleen Clark 27:00
So as far as the health commons goes, is there something missing or something we could
do better?
I
Isaac Tadé 27:07
I think health commons does a really great job of like I said, before being welcoming,
meeting people's needs, where they're at creating a sense of community and a safe space
for community. in so many different ways. I think, maybe like access or connection to
more healthcare workers on site would be good, like, maybe having volunteer physicians,
or, or dentist or social workers or therapists on site would be would be really beneficial.
And I again, I don't know if that happened, or if that's happened before, other times when
I'm not around, or what exactly happens, but from what I see, maybe that could be an
improvement. I guess my thoughts on that have developed after I made a dental health
pamphlet that we handed out with our hygiene kits, and in this pamphlet are probably
four or five different places where you can go for anyone can go for reduced or free
dental care. And I was handing these out to people. And one of the members from health
comments came up to me, and it was just kind of like, Well, you know, this is really great,
all the informations right here for you. But to most of these people, it's just another piece
of paper. And that was kind of just like a reality check for me and, and the thought that
you know, these people really do know their needs. But at the same time, they don't have
the direct access to where they can get those needs met. And so giving them a pamphlet
isn't all that helpful, it would be more helpful to bring in a dentist directly on site. And so
that's one thing I've been thinking about. And I think it would be helpful to have other
people on site to like I said, social workers, therapists, maybe yoga instructors, or
something.
Kathleen Clark 29:22
So is there a story that you'd like to share that really stuck with you? Or is there anything
you'd like to add that we didn't ask about?
I
Isaac Tadé 29:31
Sure, I've already mentioned a few stories. But one more that just happened a couple of
weeks ago, was with a gentleman. Probably one of the best dressed people I've ever seen.
It's it's incredible that he's homeless. He's always coming in with a fresh pair of slacks and
in a dress shirt and everything. But anyways, I noticed that he had gotten a haircut. And I
complimented him on it. I said, that's a great haircut. And he said, Well, thank you. Is there
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a place in your Oxburgh where I can get a cheaper free haircut next time? And I said, Well,
no, as a matter of fact, I got up charged last time I got a haircut at the shop near campus.
And he said, Well, what do you do, and I basically explained how I won't go into all the
details. But I didn't get what I wanted in my haircut, and I got charged $50. And they took
like an hour and a half. And I asked this guy, if I could get my normal rate of like 30 years
something. And that wasn't happening. So I didn't go back to the barber shop. And he just
laughed for a long time. And when he caught his breath, he explained to me that I wasn't
being wise. That if I was truly wise, I would go into the community, find someone that can
come back to the barbershop with me, talk to the owners, negotiate a reasonable price,
negotiate a student discount, negotiate, how they, how their business model can improve,
and be a responsible capitalist. And so I got this massive lecture by this homeless man,
when I was just complimenting him on his haircut, and it didn't really end there either.
Because I kind of came back at him a little bit. And I said, Well, I think that would be I
think that would be what was the word I used? naive to go back to the to the barbershop
and barber shop and assume that they would give me what I wanted the next time. Well,
then it turned into Yeah, again, like this massive conversation about responsible
capitalism. And then it turns into this thing about argumentation techniques and how if I
wanted to convince someone, what I was saying, I needed to phrase things in a certain
way or whatever. So that was just a very memorable conversation. I think we talked for
about two and a half hours in and out, but it just stem from me complimenting his haircut.
So add health comments, you never really know what you're gonna get. Get yourself into.
And that's part of the fun about it. I really enjoy the people. And like I said, I've just been
really blessed to be able to do this in person through the pandemic, because you just can't
get this kind of interaction over a screen. So yeah, I think that's about it.
Kathleen Clark 32:48
Wonderful, and your contributions this year have been immense and have been significant
and has changed us all for the better so.
I
Isaac Tadé 33:01
Oh, I'm blushing. Katie. Thank you.
Kathleen Clark 33:04
Alright, well, that concludes our oral history. Thank you. Happy to be here. Thanks.
Oral History with Isaac Tadé (2021)
Page 12 of 12
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Ellen; Oral History
Tue, 4/20 11:18AM
15:33
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
commons, experience, augsburg, health, welcoming, remember, homeless, people, feel, interns,
coming, work, housed, class, guess, guests, biases, story, spandex, nice
SPEAKERS
Isaac Tadé, Ellen
I
Isaac Tadé 00:00
Thank you f... Show more
Ellen; Oral History
Tue, 4/20 11:18AM
15:33
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
commons, experience, augsburg, health, welcoming, remember, homeless, people, feel, interns,
coming, work, housed, class, guess, guests, biases, story, spandex, nice
SPEAKERS
Isaac Tadé, Ellen
I
Isaac Tadé 00:00
Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the Augsburg University
Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tadé, I'm a student intern with Augsburg
Health Commons at Central Lutheran Church in downtown Minneapolis. Could you
please introduce yourself for the recording and tell us what your position at the university
is?
E
Ellen 00:10
Yes my name is Ellen Kearney and I'm a current DNP FNP student. I'm in my second year,
just finishing up my second year of the program, and I am also currently the one of two
health Commons interns.
I
Isaac Tadé 00:18
Okay, thank you. Can you tell me where you grew up and who you called family?
E
Ellen 00:46
I grew up in kind of a Mayberry situation in Morningside which is a neighborhood in Edina.
I have two younger brothers Tom and jack and then my mom and my dad. We always had
tons of animals as well: dogs, cats, chickens, a hedgehog called Blackberry. Yeah, and
Ellen; Oral History
Page 1 of 8
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then now I live in St. Paul with my husband and still have a lot of animals. We have three
chickens and two cats.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:12
Awesome. Thank you. How did you end up at Augsburg University?
E
Ellen 01:17
So I always knew about Augsburg. One of my neighbors growing up was actually in the
nursing department, and she kind of raved about Augsburg. But I knew that I really
wanted to leave Minnesota for college. So I kind of ignored the fact that Augsburg was
right there next door. And then when I moved back here, now about five years ago, I found
Augsburg again on the list of nurse practitioner programs, and just kind of on a whim,
went to a information session and was totally charmed by Joyce. She really sold me. So it
was the only program that I applied to. And here I am two years later.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:54
Joyce is a wonderful lady. How did you become involved with health commons?
E
Ellen 02:01
I'm so encouraged to volunteer in my, I think it was, 740 or 541 class. I can't remember if it
was a requirement or not. But I came the fall of 2019. And then was kind of hooked and
just kept coming back and kept finding ways to work it into my practicum for classes or
now coming as part of the 701.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:28
Okay, thank you. What can you tell me about your experience at health commons?
E
Ellen 02:34
I'm so I'm so grateful that I got to experience both the pre-COVID commons and the
COVID commons as both a student volunteer and now was an intern. So I feel like I've
been able to see the commons from a lot of different angles. Every time I go to the
commons, something different happens, I get to use my ICU skills and help people
navigate getting to the hospital in a hypertensive crisis, or sometimes I wash feet. But I
really think the most of my time at the commons is spent, just listening to people. And
Ellen; Oral History
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every time I go, I just kind of love it more.
I
Isaac Tadé 03:10
Most definitely. How was health commons presented to fit in with your curriculum? And
how well do you think your experience at health commons relates to what you were
learning in class?
E
Ellen 03:21
I think it blended into my education pretty seamlessly. But I've definitely tailored some of
my academic experiences towards my interests in the commons definitley aligns with my
interests. I don't really kind of remember how it was brought up in class, I know that we
were given the option of watching the video before coming and I definitely didn't watch
the video the first time. But I remember it being sort of, like I remember coming to the
commons and being sort of shocked because I thought that it was definitely gonna be
more of like a skilled nursing thing. So I think I was, I didn't really know, or I don't really
remember what how it was presented. And that maybe it was just me, like just zoning out
in class. But I think it has worked really well with my education. And also for me, I think at
least that it affirms that I would really like to work with marginalized populations as a
nurse practitioner. I had this kind of idea when I came to Augsburg that's what I wanted to
do. But really, it was just an idea. And now I have like all this practical experience to draw
upon. That's been really valuable.
I
Isaac Tadé 04:32
Yeah, that's really insightful. Thank you. How did you experience that health commons fit
or challenge your expectations?
E
Ellen 04:41
So like I said, it was really different. I didn't, I did not watch the video. And I came in and
expected to be doing things like more like health, sort of like counseling I guess. And more
like blood pressure taking and less, definitely less relationship building. And I think it took
coming back a few a few times for me to really see the mission and then coming to the
commons as a regular for me to really kind of understand the work. But it was only a while
before I realized, what kind of was the mission of the commons?
Ellen; Oral History
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I
Isaac Tadé 05:20
Did you feel as though people felt welcomed into the space? Do you have any suggestions
on how we could do better.
E
Ellen 05:29
Well I really hope people feel welcome. I certainly have felt very welcomed into this space
myself. I think that it was so busy when I first started there that I don't remember ever, like
sitting down or stopping moving until we debriefed at the end. So I don't think there was
ever a time to feel unwelcomed or out of place. And even if I didn't know, where things
were, or it was a bit clumsy, I remember being really helped by the regular guests. And
they would kind of show me and put me in the right direction. Um, I really like the way the
room is set up, I think it flows really well, and it creates this super welcoming space. I
sometimes worry that like more sensitive topics are harder to discuss, which might be
making people feel like a little bit more unwelcomed, I guess. I was just thinking of this
yesterday. A woman came in and was wanting stool softeners. And it's like, you know, it's
either one or two people kind of in there right now. And Sean, John was there. You could
tell she was kind of embarrassed. But Sean John said, like very clearly like, "Oh, I don't
listen to what you're saying," and he knew that it was a private conversation and made it
clear he wasn't listening. So I think it still is a welcoming place. But I think sometimes with
it being so small and intimate now sometimes maybe that might make it feel a little
unwelcoming? I don't know. But I think overall, it is a very welcoming place and that I don't
really think there's any suggestions about how we can make it more welcoming, I guess.
I
Isaac Tadé 06:55
Yeah, that's good to hear, thank you. What strengths did you learn of or hear from people
that you've met?
E
Ellen 07:04
Um, I think I hear strength in pretty much every story that I hear there, and the resiliency
of the guests always kind of floored me. Um, I guess I can't think of like one specific
example. Right now. But I guess just the like, determination that people have they keep
getting up coming back trying again, kind of all those cliches, but they're really true. I've
seen over and over again.
I
Isaac Tadé 07:32
Ellen; Oral History
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Yeah, most definitely. How has this experience changed any biases you may have had
about homeless people, or marginally housed individuals, excuse me.
E
Ellen 07:45
This was really my first experience working with or spending extended periods of time with
people experiencing homelessness. And I think many of my biases were challenged, I
mean, just thinking on the top my head about people like Paul and Sean John, who are
clearly so smart, and, you know, so put together and have had just like this series of bad
luck that led them to where they are and to be homeless. That, you know, that's certainly
challenged some of my beliefs about our previous biases about homelessness. And I think
that COVID has really demonstrated to how vulnerable all of us are, that none of our jobs
are truly recession proof. And it has eluminated, how easy it is for all of us to become
homeless or marginally housed. Much like Paul or Shean John or any number of the
people who come regularly. Um, I think also this experience has sort of opened my eyes to
more injustice. And I really never thought that the homeless was easy or fair. And maybe
the people experiencing homelessness were marginalized. But I think I never fully, and I
still don't fully realize how marginalized. Just yesterday, I was thinking about, as I was
bringing food to the encampments, just how, like, ridiculous it is that people are still not
allowed to sleep or live in public spaces, like parks. And then we still don't have enough
places in shelters to house everybody. So I guess those would be some of my, I guess, I
don't know if those are biases or just things that have become clear about the homeless
experience.
I
Isaac Tadé 09:27
Thank you for that. How would you suggest suggest we can better accompany people on
their journey of health, for example, adding more hours or adding outreach services?
E
Ellen 09:39
Yeah, I go back and forth about this. I have loved being able to connect people like Sean
John and chatting to hear all his stories. And I think that's so in line with the goal of the
commons but I also really wish we could reach more people. And I think that's kind of the
perpetual problem in health care. We really want to see and help as many people as we
can, but we also want to build relationships and friendships and like we just can't do it all.
But part of me thinks that doing more might dilute what we currently have. And that if we
add or change anything, or if we do add or change anything, I think it would be really
cool to kind of do a poll of all our guests and maybe even going out to like the near north,
or if there are other encampments that we could think of and asking people there.
Ellen; Oral History
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Because I really, I don't know, what would be more beneficial. I really love what we have
going on now. But certainly, if there were things that people thought that we could do
different, or that we could add, I would be so interested in making accommodations and
helping in other ways, too.
I
Isaac Tadé 10:36
It sounds like a question of quantity versus quality.
E
Ellen 10:40
Totally.
I
Isaac Tadé 10:41
Okay. What, if anything, will you take forward with you from this experience?
E
Ellen 10:49
Oh, um, a lot of things. Um, so I think the big one is that this definitely has affirmed that, I
would love to work with marginalized populations going forward. Um, I think I feel like...so
I got into nursing thinking I was going to be a labor delivery nurse and ended up kind of in
the complete opposite, as a pediatric ICU nurse. And I came into this program thinking
that I wanted to work with marginalized people, but was really open to the idea that, like,
my education might change that. And this experience totally has, just solidified and
affirmed that I would like to work with marginalized populations in some capacity. So
that's kind of invaluable. Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 11:37
Okay, thank you. What do you think health commons can do better? Is something
missing?
E
Ellen 11:45
I don't think so. I think I said when I had to interview for the commons that I thought that it
could maybe be a little bit more organized. Just because sometimes I think it is hard for us
to find things when Katie's not there. But I think Katie definitely took that to heart and
that it is, like a lot more organized now and a lot easier for me to find things. So I think it's
easier for us to be more independent there as the interns. But yeah, I mean, I think it's
Ellen; Oral History
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great. I guess maybe if I was going to just talk about wishes and hopes, like it's been so
nice to have that space be our own. And it would be nice to have that going forward, to
not have to pack it all up every week for Sunday school, but I don't know if that would be
possible in a post COVID world.
I
Isaac Tadé 12:38
Thank you. What could have been better in regards to your volunteer experience?
E
Ellen 12:48
Um, I think I'm so biased that I just love it so much! I don't know what I could say, "what
would be better?" Um, I do sometimes think that... like I was saying before that sometimes
it is just sort of slightly frustrating not being able to find things. But that's definitely gotten
a lot better and made you feel like, I know where stuff is now and things are just more
organized. It's easier, but that would be the only thing.
I
Isaac Tadé 13:16
Okay, is there a specific story you could share that struck you from your experience at
helth commons?
E
Ellen 13:24
Yeah, think it was either the first or second time entering this winter, like over the spring
semester. This woman came in, it was one of those extremely cold days. And she was in
like a midriff spandex top and spandex bottoms, a rain jacket, and then socks and
sandals. And she'd been sleeping outside. Clearly like her hands and her feet were almost
frostbitten. And she just started telling us all about her story, and was super open. And it
came out that her car had been impounded. She'd been living in her car and she had all
the money together to get the car out, but she just didn't have car insurance and that was
going to be another like two or $300 which she just didn't have. And then clearly she
needed a lot of clothes and to be warmed back up. And it was just this like perfect like
stars aligning experience where like everything came together and everyone worked like
so well together. Pastor Melissa came in and was able to hook her up with insurance right
away. People from the clothing closet were able to find her like just the warmest best
clothes. We'd just randomly gotten a shipment of a ton of really nice polar fleece mittens
too. And this woman, she came in just so downtrodden and ended up leaving just so
encouraged and like kind of on this high. It was so wonderful to be able to take care of her
in such a way and help her get her car back. So that was kind of a really...stars aligning
Ellen; Oral History
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experience.
I
Isaac Tadé 15:09
Wow, that's a really beautiful story, thank you. And then our last question is, is there
anything you would like to add that we didn't already ask about?
E
Ellen 15:19
I don't think so.
I
Isaac Tadé 15:22
Okay. Well, thank you. This has been a great experience for me.
E
Ellen 15:27
Thanks, Isaac.
I
Isaac Tadé 15:28
All right you're welcome.
Ellen; Oral History
Page 8 of 8
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Show less
Oral History Interview with Dwayne
Wright, 2018
Wed, 3/10 1:28PM
13:15
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
commons, great, community, center, nurses, started, working, minnesota, restoration, trailer,
hygiene kits, health, dwayne, care, central, fellowship hall, people, interview, adjustment, week
SPEAKER... Show more
Oral History Interview with Dwayne
Wright, 2018
Wed, 3/10 1:28PM
13:15
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
commons, great, community, center, nurses, started, working, minnesota, restoration, trailer,
hygiene kits, health, dwayne, care, central, fellowship hall, people, interview, adjustment, week
SPEAKERS
Dwayne Wright, Kathleen Clark
Kathleen Clark 00:00
Hello,
D
Dwayne Wright 00:00
hello,
Kathleen Clark 00:01
my name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor at Augsburg University. Thank you for
joining us.
D
Dwayne Wright 00:07
My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Kathleen Clark 00:10
So just before we begin, I just have to confirm that you can send to be interviewed and
Oral History Interview with Dwayne Wright,
Page
2018
1 of 10
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that the interview will be stored at Augsburg University and made available to the public.
D
Dwayne Wright 00:21
Yes, Yes, I do. It'll be my pleasure.
Kathleen Clark 00:24
All right. And before we get started, can you tell us your first and last name?
D
Dwayne Wright 00:29
My name is Dwayne Wright.
Kathleen Clark 00:31
Right. What is your title here at Central Lutheran Church?
D
Dwayne Wright 00:34
I'm director of security here.
Kathleen Clark 00:37
So Dwayne, can you tell us a little bit about where you grew up and who you called family?
D
Dwayne Wright 00:43
I grew up in Waterloo, Iowa, believe it or not, very small town. I have five daughters, and I
take care of my mom also. So that's pretty much it.
Kathleen Clark 00:57
They're great. Well, so how did you end up in Minnesota?
D
Dwayne Wright 01:02
I had a sister up here already and then I went to junior college for two years in Kansas and
Oral History Interview with Dwayne Wright,
Page
2018
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then I transferred toMankato State and then once I left Mankato. I stayed here in
Minnesota, there wasn't many jobs in Iowa so stayinghere in Minnesota was a better
opportunity for me and I’ve been here ever since.
Kathleen Clark 01:21
and what did you get your degree in?
D
Dwayne Wright 01:23
Business Administration
Kathleen Clark 01:24
Business Administration? All right. So can you tell me how did you end up working in at
Central Lutheran?
D
Dwayne Wright 01:31
Um, I used to be at the airport before I started here. I used to run a CTX machine, we used
to look forexplosives for baggage going up under the plane. And I was there for about two
years and then I was one of the budget cuts, which actually worked out because otherwise
I wouldn’t have been here at Central. And then I tried tolook for other jobs but it wasn't
nothing coming along and then I went to a security company and then they asked me do
y'all mind working for a church and I was kind of hesitant at first and I'm like why would a
church need security and then I got here then I seen it was a place for the community to
come to and then I did an interview and then sheasked me did I want the job and I said
‘sure’.
Kathleen Clark 01:51
So how long? How long ago is that now?
D
Dwayne Wright 01:52
that was going on 16 years now
Oral History Interview with Dwayne Wright,
Page
2018
3 of 10
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Kathleen Clark 01:54
Wow.
D
Dwayne Wright 01:54
Yes. And I was with a contract company. And then the church offered me a position to
leave the contract company and asked me what I worked directly for them. And I said, Of
course I would. So now I'm hired directly through the church. Great, and which is better. I
have benefits now and 401k plan so it couldn't be any better.
Kathleen Clark 02:04
Awesome, well so, what do you, cause I think when you started there, there was not a
Restoration Center, is that correct?
D
Dwayne Wright 02:59
It was a restoration. Okay. Yes.
Kathleen Clark 03:01
Oh, there was. Well, when did the Restoration Center become….
D
Dwayne Wright 03:02
Well it was actually like a it was fellowship hall that was open so that's where we served
the meals so people came there four days out the week Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday
and Thursday and they just set up in fellowship hall, we actually had a school downstairs
where the Restoration Center used to be. So then once the school left, thenthey decided
to open up another spot downstairs in the basement for the community.
Kathleen Clark 03:28
And so what was the idea behind naming it? The restorationation center, do you
remember?
Oral History Interview with Dwayne Wright,
Page
2018
4 of 10
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D
Dwayne Wright 03:35
Rolf came up with one of our old past employees, and he came up with that name. Yes. I
don't exactly know where he got it from. I'm not too for sure. But to me, it fits.
Kathleen Clark 03:46
Yeah it fits. And so the Restoration Center is the Clothing Closet, the Health Commons,
the job coaches, the meals, all of it.
D
Dwayne Wright 03:56
All in one. Yes, indeed.
Kathleen Clark 04:00
So can you tell me a little bit about what you remember of your first encounters with the?
Well, it's probably called the nursing Center at that time, not the health commons. What
do you remember?
D
Dwayne Wright 04:11
Oh, let's see. When I first started, we had the head nurse was named Sandy. I can't I know
she was from Canada, but I can't remember her last name. Finn. There you go. Yep. Sandy
Finn. Um, I met her and we got along great. Actually. We're pretty good friends. And we
started working together. And I think that's about it
Kathleen Clark 04:40
does it look a lot like how it looks now?
D
Dwayne Wright 04:43
Um,
Kathleen Clark 04:44
look different. I mean, obviously, we're at a trailer this year, but as far as before we moved
to the trailer.
Oral History Interview with Dwayne Wright,
Page
2018
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D
Dwayne Wright 04:49
Yeah, I think it was pretty much set. Pretty much the same. Yeah, yeah. And how do you go
for you had kind of the same ideas. So I think mostly it was just For you both just wanted
to make sure that the community felt comfortable and safe and welcoming, and for them
to have a place to go.
Kathleen Clark 05:10
So and how do you view nursing as part of the restoration center,
D
Dwayne Wright 05:15
I think is a great idea. I don't think we can go without it. No, with the community. With the
hygiene kits, given out twice a week, it is it is great to do soap socks, toothbrush,
toothpaste, razors, even washcloths, because a lot of times the community don't get a
chance to when they do take showers and stuff like that somewhere else. They have none
of them items that they can use, because a lot of the shelters don't give them them items.
So having a restorations here, center here is gives them an opportunity to clean
themselves up.
Kathleen Clark 05:54
So why do you think people keep coming back to them nurses?
D
Dwayne Wright 05:59
for the community, you know, for them, it's trust. So y'all been here a long time and the
community feel very comfortable working with people that they know, if they don't know
them, it's hard for them to interact. And, you know, you nurses have a great relationship
with them, and you make them feel comfortable. You make them feel loved. And that
goes a long way for the community.
Kathleen Clark 06:22
So that being said, what could we do better?
D
Dwayne Wright 06:25
Oral History Interview with Dwayne Wright,
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2018
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I'm really I think is going part of it perfectly. I mean, it'd be kind of hard, you know, for you,
for you to be in there every day. But for four days out the week that it's open, but it could
be a need for four days out the week. Yes.
Kathleen Clark 06:43
As far as the space itself, do you I mean, again, we're in the trailer, but imagine our old
space or what our new space would ideally look like. Do you feel like it's a welcoming
space? And if not, what could we do to be more welcoming?
D
Dwayne Wright 07:00
I think is a welcoming, considering the situation that we're in right now. We're, of course,
we're in a trailer. So we have to adjust. And I think we adjusted pretty darn good. In the
old spot. You know, I didn't really like that one way in one way out, you know, people had
to come in and exit the same way. So in the new building that we're going to build is going
to accommodate things more. So it'd be great. It'd be great.
Kathleen Clark 07:27
I agree. Having two doors to exit has always been key.
D
Dwayne Wright 07:32
Yes. Yes, indeed.
Kathleen Clark 07:33
So what's been your favorite part about being part of the health commons community? If
you could share a story or, or not? It's up to you?
D
Dwayne Wright 07:44
Oh, I don't know. Working with you all has been awesome. Like I said before, we can't do
without you all. That's, that's for sure. So I just like to say thank you for being here. And
thank you all for everything that you'll do. And thank you all for being loving and caring
and showing the community that they have other options and and people out there do
care for them. So that's what I'm really appreciative of, for y'all. Thank you,
Oral History Interview with Dwayne Wright,
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Kathleen Clark 08:17
you're not done with your questions. So as far as because I want nurses to really think
about caring for people who are coming through. So what kind of challenges do you think
that people are typically experiencing when they're coming to the health commons?
D
Dwayne Wright 08:34
Oh, well, the biggest challenge before, before now, you know, before our problem used to
be intoxication. And now we're going into the adjustment that more people are being
having issues will be admittedly you. So say that is the big adjustment for now. Yeah.
Kathleen Clark 08:55
When I think about you, I think about you have such skill in what you do, and in building
relationships, and really deescalating situations while you do and so what is something
that nurses at the health commons can do better to help you with security issues? Or Yeah,
how could How could we help you more? Oh,
D
Dwayne Wright 09:28
I think you're doing a great job. What's you're doing? Oh, yeah, I think we make a great
team. I think we do. And I'm okay, like a one right now. You got me on the spot.
Kathleen Clark 09:46
I gotcha. It's just so much wisdom in how you connect with people and really make a
situation that could go you know, one way go the other which is, I mean,
D
Dwayne Wright 09:59
whoa, right. For me, I'm a people's person. So that goes a long way until the job. So if
you're not a people person, it could make things a little bit difficult for you. So I like
meeting new people try to treat everybody the same. And that's a big thing there too. Just
try to treat, treat everyone the same and show no favoritism and show everyone that
you're in it, you know, for them, you know, it's not about yourself, and just being friends
with them. So you show them that you care about them, and you give them respect, and
they will do the same. Same for you back.
Oral History Interview with Dwayne Wright,
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Kathleen Clark 10:39
Alright, two more questions. One would be, you know, we have students come in quite
frequently that come sometimes just a one time deal. Is there anything we can improve
with that situation? As far as the nurses coming in? give anything, any thoughts about
that?
D
Dwayne Wright 10:56
I think only thing that maybe would help them, you know, before they come in, you know,
kind of give them a rundown and kind of tell them what to expect, you know, that you are
going to deal with some people who have mental issues, so that it won't be a shock to
them, you know, so they can come in and won't be surprised. So I think it's in in maybe
that it kind of gives them an idea? Is that really what they want to do? They might want to
decide to volunteer somewhere else, because this is pretty much hands on kind of gig. So I
think that's probably the most important thing. Yeah, I know, some people, you know,
they're not gonna look their best, you know, some people are gonna maybe have the
same clothes on for a week or so. So just so they know the different challenges that
they're going to meet? Yes.
Kathleen Clark 11:56
Well, in your mind, what do you think the health commons should look like in 20 years
from now?
D
Dwayne Wright 12:06
Hopefully, you'll still be here. And hopefully, I'll still be here. Unless we hit the lottery or
something. Yeah, then I expect neither one of us to be. But I think in 20 years long as we
carry on the tradition, and loans that we you know, show that we're loving and caring,
and maybe eventually get on to bigger space, and maybe, you know, have nurses here
every day, not only working through the reservation center, but also working through
center, because we have a lot of elderly members here. So I think, you know, just having
the nurses here make my job a lot easier. So maybe to expand it a little bit more, that I
think that'll be a great goal.
Kathleen Clark 12:47
Alright, that's all I have for questions for you. Is there anything you want to add or say can
Oral History Interview with Dwayne Wright,
Page
2018
9 of 10
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
be anything at all? Um,
D
Dwayne Wright 12:54
I just think the nurse's station is a wonderful thing, like I said before, and thank you all for
everything that you do. And thank you for your support. I really appreciate.
Kathleen Clark 13:04
Thank you. Thank you very much. So that ends our interview for this segment. So
D
Dwayne Wright 13:10
Alright, peace out.
Oral History Interview with Dwayne Wright,
Page
2018
10 of 10
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
RG 21.4.2017.10.31 Dr Osman.mp3
Thu, 08/08 12:50PM
77:46
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
somalia, people, day, health, children, absolutely, mogadishu, community, area, disease,
minnesota, medicine, language, left, difficulty, good, finished, topia, walk, hospital
SPEAKERS
Kathleen Clark, Dr. Osman (... Show more
RG 21.4.2017.10.31 Dr Osman.mp3
Thu, 08/08 12:50PM
77:46
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
somalia, people, day, health, children, absolutely, mogadishu, community, area, disease,
minnesota, medicine, language, left, difficulty, good, finished, topia, walk, hospital
SPEAKERS
Kathleen Clark, Dr. Osman (Harare), Fadumo Mohamed
K
Kathleen Clark 00:00
Thank you for joining us here for this oral history project. If you could just say your name,
introduce yourself.
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
00:08
My name is Dr. Osman Mahmoud Ahmed--Harare. And my nick nickname is quicker than
my official name, therefore, commonly they call me Osman Harare.
K
Kathleen Clark 00:23
Wonderful.
F
Fadumo Mohamed 00:25
And my name is Faduma Mohamed
K
Kathleen Clark 00:27
And Faduma will be helping us with translation today. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an
assistant professor of nursing here at Augsburg University, and I just have to make sure
you can send to be interviewed and then having the recorded interview stored here at
RG 21.4.2017.10.31 Dr Osman.mp3
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Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public.
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
00:46
Yes.
K
Kathleen Clark 00:51
women, but men will be helping us with translation today. My name is Katie Clark. I'm an
assistant professor of nursing here at Augsburg University. And I just have to make sure
you can send to be interviewed and then having the recorded interview stored here at
Augsburg University, which will be made available to the public. Yes. Wonderful. Alright, so
can you just tell me a little bit about where you were born and what year you were born
in?
K
Kathleen Clark 00:57
Wonderful. Alright, so can you just tell me a little bit about where you were born and what
year you were born in.
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
01:02
I born 1943 in Beledweyne, this is central Somalia, small city, not a small city but a big city
in Somalia. One of the big farmers region of the Somalia located in central Somalia and
the one the one of the rivers of the Somalia past there. Therefore I was born there and I
grow there from my study. And I finished elementary school, Quran school there.
K
Kathleen Clark 01:35
So can you describe a little bit about your family to me?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
01:40
My family. I lost my father when I was less than four years. But my mother and my brother
This helped me to grow up. I had serious brothers and sisters, four brothers and two sisters
and my mother, I was a younger one and I grew there life was difficult but the life of that
time is better than try now. And everything was very, very cheap and life was very, very
supportive. Therefore I studied there I started the study Quran, school, Quran I finished
Quran all day and go to the regular school. Day school that time was administrated by
Italian government. Therefore I learn all day, from elementary to high school in Italian
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language
K
Kathleen Clark 02:46
In what language?
F
Fadumo Mohamed 02:48
Italian.
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
02:49
Italian.
K
Kathleen Clark 02:49
Italian? Oh, Italian.
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
02:52
Therefore, after I finished high school, I get a scholarship from government of Somalia to
donated from Russian Soviet Union. Not Russia but Soviet Union that time. And I was
there in Russia, in Moscow in year and a half. I finished medical school 1969.
K
Kathleen Clark 03:25
And what led you to want to be a medical doctor?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
03:30
Huh?
K
Kathleen Clark 03:30
Why did you want to be a medical doctor?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
03:32
Yeah. Look, I when I studied in the elementary school I saw a lot of children who have
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suffered absolutely in different disease, especially infection disease, parasites diseases,
and I think so maybe I can help these people and I decided what profession I will be to uh,
maybe I go to the Medical School and I selected that time to become pediatrician.
Therefore in Russia, when I finished medical school and I specialize in a pediatrician
around come back to the Somalia to help Somalia, children. And I worked 10 years in
Somalia, different areas different position. And after 10 years, I was back to the Italy for
three years for a specialization of the tropical infectious disease. And again, I go back to
the Somalia and I will get there until Civil War.
K
Kathleen Clark 04:45
Now going back, do you mind telling me what happened to your father?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
04:50
You know, he died from natual--
K
Kathleen Clark 04:52
From natural causes? Okay. Okay. How about what was medical school like for you, were
most of the other students Russian or normal students from all around the world?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
05:03
Look when I was in Russia this year first time I go out into Somalia and I was young, must
be 19 years. And the, the most difficulty first difficulty I encountered was the Russian
language is little bit differently from Latin language, especially some or, for example, the
word of the edge in Italian and in English too, and they weren't of the ash. And they were
two of the, in the as differently in Italian a in Russian language for example. They R in
session is P, the letter P looks like the Russian is R in Russian is N. The B, like boy, in Russian
is V was very very difficult to adapt I studied to Olivia to superior language in this Lord.
Now I can change in their mind was very very difficulty to first time but the Russian
language is better than English for treating because you're write when you listen like
Italian language like Arabic language. Only English language is difficulty because every
time you say one word or you write something else but Italian, Arabic, and Russian, you
write what you listening absolute that they have on you can spell it but the Russian
language is very very difficult to sell nowadays. this change of the word and they have
new words. I never see them was very, very difficult difficulty
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D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
07:09
In my faculty I was pediatrician and difficulty was 120 people only I was foreigness--
K
Kathleen Clark 07:21
You were what?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
07:22
The foreign student.
F
Fadumo Mohamed 07:25
He was the only foreign student.
F
Fadumo Mohamed 07:25
for an only foreign studio only dish
K
Kathleen Clark 07:25
Only foreign student?
K
Kathleen Clark 07:25
Only foreign student?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
07:27
Only there and almost the 95% was girl.
K
Kathleen Clark 07:33
Wow, so how did you get connected with medical school in Russia?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
07:39
20 people they divided two classes. Every class was group was 10 people. And my group
was three boy and seven a girl but the whole Faculty of was 120 people let's rally was very
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very good people and I don't have any complain any problem absolute that they helped
me some time to study out to understand something and especially the first two years
after that are in the actual language very well. I finished but all the secrecy of difficult a
medical school right there is medical school CCF and when year and a half I spent to
Latin language
K
Kathleen Clark 08:38
Wow. Yeah. Does your family have a lot of money that you were able to do that? Or is that
something that was kind of common?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
08:44
It was meant to be where we normally spend the avian $1 or am I steady I normally
spending even $1 this is worship the bed I say every month when I'm there's there's to
leave us enough Absolutely.
F
Fadumo Mohamed 09:06
So cool that they actually get scholarships to go study abroad. And this is through the
government relationship between the two countries and on top of that they get paid.
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
09:15
I spent my study in the Sasha in Italy in $1. This is why I am putting all my effort to help my
community wonderful because I let him and the name of the Somali community what I
am.
K
Kathleen Clark 09:35
So can you tell me more about your wife, or if you were married or your family, your
immediate family, your children?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
09:47
Hey, maybe only one wife. We need all the 47 years we have only seven children. Me my
wife and I we meet when wise in the high school in Somalia before I go to the mosque
University she waited almost seven years and when I come back we marry me Still we live
together and she finished to high school and she was a mystery school there in Somalia
and she speaks Arabic very well I'm Italia to we live with our still together. We have seven
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children and now we have four current children
K
Kathleen Clark 10:43
What can you tell me more about what the medical practice was like in Somalia?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
10:49
Oh, look, the difference is medical health system in Somalia and the United States is
completely different. In Somalia the hell is pretty completely as free. The people go there
until now. I think no need any insurance. Not have no need any parameter cash, no need
no appointment, everybody won't have some problem to the hospital for delivery for
surgery for operation. All this was free. The best thing in Somalia was the health and
education was free. The hospital they have known was sophisticated specially the rural
area and the smallest district but in the capital of the show was very, very good hospital
and we had a non MMR or AT scan but we not had that. Absolutely. But I think we had
last very nice and a practical was to go to the morning to the clinic and sit there and the
people they tell lumber detail in a in a queue and we see every day 30 people 35 people
absolutely. And these people the VC turn they can medicine and they go back.
K
Kathleen Clark 12:26
What was their primary health concerns typically? What were their usual health concerns?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
12:33
Oh yeah, in Somalia rarely their health concern is more about encrypting diseases. caster
and right especially for children bronchitis parasite is same time we have outbreak of the
Calera it defies you sometime we had some is Polish visually We are the small books bad
time and you'll notice Somalia was last person in the world who had small Booker's so as
in Somalia 1997 in 1977 therefore the gated that they only did three years of campaign to
educate small focus and the health system was very good but they were very difficult and
we don't cover and we begin in when we come back from fashion the medical doctor is so
many medical doctor he was almost about 40 people only come Oh come differently
country everybody knows everybody has his system at different system for others but we
get a common language we help it a salad a Somalia but system was very very good and
the people who I appreciate our difficulties although there is when I come back and
started to walk I was away yet in Mogadishu and after that they transferred me from
Mogadishu to pilot when when I bought your home country yeah my own place when I
bought and I work at this two years and have it as a medical doctor and everybody know
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me there so I study and I born here and I was very very happy to help I did very good job
that I developed the hospital I create a new hospital I create a new TP Hospital in Bella
Wayne who has not been there before me AN to get some system because I had a car
accident there's a lot of car accident in some Malia in Halloween area because the people
got go Supercell Villa afternoon from Mogadishu and they drive all night and when they
go near near always they have some accident. I remember in one week I had three car
accident almost 40 people then after that I go to the government government area and I
said no I must stop to think because all my hospital is full of the broken papers and I
created some low to stop midnight on the car before they come in this is the accident the
area between Paraguay and Polo property where sometimes get a car stupid a car old
midnight no car bus there they stop there they till sleep here you go Monica for me. Unless
absolutely it is the accident very very well.
K
Kathleen Clark 16:16
And you also did some political work around neonatal tetanus Did you as well?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
16:22
Yeah does it noon it that this this is when I woke up in Mogadishu when I come to temple
that way that has faded again to the put me in the head of the infection disease hospital
and that was very very difficult to because every day they bring me shy seekers they are
seven days with no not allocators hours various sad because Europe can save because
they tell that is very very little or very very little disease and this happened why because
all children who are born out of the hospital the delivery from traditional bed attentive
said traditional midwife for work in the area and they use on day one knife they have the
knife everybody use for that and things yeah and every body good that dive that dead
thumbs and I remember one lady she could three consecutive years jazz who did for 10
years after that I said rarely to do something because I know come so I'm not gonna leave
whether what I did I collected 85 midwife from Mogadishu I asked unit Jeff to help me to
pay this midwife for two months and I treated them septic antiseptic how to work and ice
and I ordered your chief midwife kit David bring midwife good Very good. Very good.
midwife good. And I get this for two months and I teach how to prevent infection disease
like tetanus and every other thing I teach them which Barragan a woman they can help I
tell them the sign of the nama the people who have enemy that we will have some
complication and I asked them every message Miss get vaccine for tetanus they good day
my wife different in a woman to the MC HAJ and take a vaccination another fairly still
existed a tetanus after that but I reduce it or with secrecy percentage Sally very very wet
girl yeah. Yeah Really good. That's very, very successful project. Absolutely.
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K
Kathleen Clark 19:24
So what were some of like the healing methods are that people use in the community like
I know about black seed that's used here, but can you tell me more What did some of
the...?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
19:37
This is a traditional medicine and traditional practice in so money is very common. Rarely
was very very difficult to adapt. For example, when I was in Somalia I have deal with this
TV politician because especially the children when they have gastroenteritis and the
vomiting the area before they bring to the hospital they take this child to the traditional
person and he was he too Oh he take out to hear the call a co this a non truth but they
have the the corner and hide it Granda the approaches coming to it they take out or what
they do they cut here and the umbilical area and they said he could discharge evil eyes I
and I'm they think some something but there is it did the evil eye for me I mean from
death.
K
Kathleen Clark 21:09
So you're saying they would do that to the child they take some skin off from his
abdomen?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
21:13
Yeah They cut it they take this one
K
Kathleen Clark 21:21
And they take the incisors and then..?
F
Fadumo Mohamed 21:27
Basically what they're saying is like because the child on deck those are the future that
like the new brand new teeth that are supposed to come out before they come out that's
what's making the child sick yeah so they used to get it out.
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
21:42
They say this is this and this is a bad thing yeah after that I saw an evil child who have
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gastroenteritis directed they could they're almost a four hour six hours this and after the
tapering to me to the clinic director is Olga the very very late sometime I did to idealism
deal with that additional to take a look please police union three job to close to the clinic
after clinic you do what you want. But because I say that and reason to support the
hesitation the children they are vomiting or they have their area they lose everything they
have in body and JDL come very very dangerous stated sometimes the children died for
that either station
K
Kathleen Clark 22:48
For that what?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
22:49
Yeah the dehydration. Was difficulty to deal because the other thing this community they
believe that person then you this if you deal with that number they come to you and they
lost the children or the elderly people everything because they saw these people long long
time traditional one and you are come from outside there I am Dr nobody no you
therefore what you must deal with that and correct that people therefore I am corrected
this that additional midwife that edition of this paper and I always was in the community
rallied to helping police Let's go together Let's walk together Absolutely. But you don't do
something dangerous to the life of a child you can do nothing therefore the gestation unit
can do nothing for when Mr do severe Marty dysentery are you doing you're not good
with your beliefs sent to the hospital after that you can do something.
K
Kathleen Clark 24:04
So what can you tell me more about the use of black seed?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
24:09
The black seed is traditional additional so Molly when this is all the muslim countries use
this black seed. What they are doing good they had they did this help and this the power
of the galaxy is only support the immune system of the body therefore they call this Biloxi
three every disease you know this only the black seeds support the immunity of the body
K
Kathleen Clark 24:46
So switching gears a little bit Can you tell me a little bit like about when you're the
Director of Public Health and Somalia? What did your daily work life look like? And what
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kind of challenges would Did you encounter?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
24:59
When I was director of the Community Health Department I was Director of Community
Health the birth image Minister of Health this a national level from 1981 until 1990 before
the Civil War or Mr. TS I was def under my department he was different the section of the
health persona mental health mth we call was the disease section was immunization was
prime healthcare was health education was malaria or this was my department at for
example Ashley she worked with me 10 years she was head of the gel health journey is
very very difficulty job because to implement a monetization you must have the coaching
system of course a system where you keep the vaccine deficiency must be always in the
call area and I created a very very good conscious culture and system in there Mogadishu
was the best in the East Africa culture and system because it created very very big
building gun I asked I asked get some support from UNW and the building control master
they spent one $120,000 to build that and the pink all culture everything generators and
was very very good but they had a difficult to us some district no electricity at all and their
children you must vaccinate and was my pic difficult at all but I asked who doping sola for
free freezer is walk with a non electricity but solar one and I put almost the 15th district
that system to Somaliathe other part of the web not in our area we use it to vaccinate
children using call box and go there to vaccinate he was very very difficulty but the reality
was very very cool system my stuff was almost a 360 paper or it Somalia I managed some
time ago to travel for one to week outside of this Mogadishu to see what they are doing
almost a pill all day region of the semi only three region I have not been there yet and was
my plan was to see that region 1991 but the Civil War come out but the rest I went there
absolutely wow I'm learning a lot
K
Kathleen Clark 28:34
So what was--can you tell me more about the Civil War?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
28:42
says that one still not believe what why why why we had to go to war.
K
Kathleen Clark 28:54
What was the conditions that made you want to leave versus stay?
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D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
29:00
Look, at one of them. They broke out the Civil War. I know they've already show about one
year because I know believe what's going on what's going there absolutely. I stayed with
the show all 91 1991 I was in Mogadishu after that I see this not finish and I move it from a
big show to the smile was there eight months again still the Civil War and after one year
and eight months in Somalia Stewart I decided to live why I decided to live because I
created when I was in Maya I saw a lot thousand hundred thousand children with panda
Trisha with gosh Of course not asthma Sephora diseases I asked me on a GF do some
feeding centers they're very open feeding centers one created one center on one very
very big bus for 1000 children to fit the unity of healthy family did good job the created
the distributed building the innovation the world world for order and everything and when
we set up on we need open that morning five us come night time and took over that with
gun when they come morning I see the children out and just to repeat five people the
inside this is the you said we liberated our this area What do you mean liberated from
where you come?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
31:07
No. I said please I need help these children and we feed here and everything is here well
why do children they tell me remember they still they tell me Are you BUUU by this center
Are you still friends from the center and I said I come by your descent that this
government dissenters you unit Jeff built How are you can buy me familiar OI how are you
confident even I offer them we take you as a welcome people to support us define the
security and we pay every month something but by for me you descend there or rent from
your disruptor with the same possibilities of go out. I believe you look these children they
are dying for malnutrition they are then the disease please Hellman one is can you see
this? You see this children? I see it is not children. I see this like I am what I am like an
empty I like the end and he opened it is the gun gun over these children Papa Papa Papa
Papa Papa. And they run out that day I decided to leave some money early. I remember
that day. After one week I Lyft that's very, very sad. story very pretty sad.
K
Kathleen Clark 33:01
So when you say you left What did you just did you have a car that you went in? Or were
there like vans bringing people to Kenya or how did that--
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
33:10
No, I come in every day did to bring jobs and they when they go to the eyes of board to
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help with help other people and I have gone back to the Nairobi in Nairobi almost 25
days after that I got some job from a nonprofit organization from Saudi Arabia who
helping catastrophe Jean Mandera, Kenya and I was there Madeira almost two years and
half refer to them and they paid me very well $800 but last residency our food and
everything I take my children different areas from the pin intelligence area some was in
Mogadishu yet some and I collect all my children in Nairobi the liver till 1995
K
Kathleen Clark 34:24
So when you lived in the refugee camp and you were working there What did it look like
as far as was there like buildings that had apartments or were the actual tents like What
did it look like where you lived?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
34:35
Live in this building? This only they push? You know the proof they need of the ship? Bosko
Allah Allah
F
Fadumo Mohamed 34:48
Oh you mean the so it's a hut
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
34:51
they had like a Porsche Porsche
F
Fadumo Mohamed 34:54
[speaking in Somali]
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
35:00
Yeah yeah, very good very very good condition wrong water no nothingthe children died
when I was there when I tested their legacy the children did every day for Mrs. This month
Trisha I'm fairly I did very good job to get radicalized the Arabic people are they showed
you want to bring me with sugar and oil and I created a what we call a high energy milk a
mixed sugar milk and this a very very good words for men malnutrition children. This a
very high energy milk and other things. I created some mixed a call your mics DAI mixed
rice, corn, beans, sugar and oil. And they did some the cook a support like that bush and
this a very very good nutrition thing to really did after that. The other Belgium people
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come they come they leave that they did some water there. Otherwise they will be very
good but they pick the forbidden was very disaster. One very disaster one.
F
Fadumo Mohamed 36:41
These are the people who are coming from Somalia there for Geez.
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
36:45
Did you come from Somalia? Was there 50,000 people?
K
Kathleen Clark 36:51
So did you have access to medications and such to give people when you were there?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
36:55
Yeah. They had a question. We had the bidding for them to the Arabia. They built him of
condition. Volunteers. They come they bring medicine. And we had very good medicine
and rare every flu we need for the decision.
K
Kathleen Clark 37:13
So how did you end up in Minnesota?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
37:20
When I want to close that refugee camp in 1994 I come back to the Nairobi. I decided to
move to Topeka because they said nonprofit GMO in Kenya and WAUM they said if every
if someone go back to the Somalia we pay the ticket and to them to either but what what
do you want, but not Richie born in Kenya and 1995 I left match to the topia. I tell them I
go to the Somalia and I selected both Burmese very, very posh part of the Somalia
overhead Giza the Nia of the topia. And I said I'm one dish. I've been there for walking and
I know the area but my aim was not there. My aim was to the topia and they took me all
my family by AF to Barbara from Berber athletic scarf to the podium. And they give me
the HG person they commit they give a $20 unless it was eight people at $40 and they
said bye bye you're in Somalia. The biggest day I take my children and go to database
was Chicken Tikka. Tikka Tikka very, very hard, very not. I left again to the desert lower
and I was defeated about 10 days. After 10 days I left again for them to the Ababa. I was in
that server. I go to the Minister of Health utopia. He said I am a medical doctor so money
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and my come here and I want to walk day by spirit good people and they send me oh you
have your diploma. Medical dental like that. said yes. And I shall definitely made the
printer and they took my to come in to the port of the medical doctors after mass they
called me back and said you can take give me a license to work any topia where I want
one, welcome the Minister of Health take this one. I'm free. Or if you want open there you
are private you are free. is still I have that license. That's it Okay thank you.
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
40:11
Therefore when I left I go back to the GG to do some documentation. And one night I was
in hotel and I must go early morning about five o'clock. by bus for particularly that she got
to the bar and midnight. I come out to the to the toilet the toilet the toilet difference room
is out. And when I come out around the throne some sick person come out the other room
with night. Disability recovery stood it was that's my summary when when I went to the
restroom I go in and I close the door. I actually did OB staff I wish other people come out
and they took there was one so many who have some mental Berlin and they put again
nice throne. I think they're about half hour after again I come there I come there at the
door is when you open it This makes room and again this one come out. I get I get my
room and I go in and I close unused Ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba here's it karate everything.
Mamma mia what's going this Mr. Rob Lowe and I must Lyft five look. I sit there after one
hour I sleep. I sleep when I wake up eight o'clock the personification past Lyft dish after
that that's it okay I go tomorrow I go to the city centers for breakfast. After that, I hear it
so my the American lady who are in charge of the show for G is coming today for
sponsorship who have sponsorship. She will be see and she can help punchy have three
o'clock meeting there your end building this out of the city.
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
43:00
I had sponsorship for my sister who was in Atlanta at that time. The sponsorship I have
been there my birth. I come back to the hotel, and I come out that's okay. Maybe I go
there. I go there three o'clock. I showed them my sponsorship. And I said this I get when I
was in Dharavi sponsorship, but they still do not started to employ a process and I come
back and I come to it topia to here and I have this webinar she asked me okay. She did
photocopy and she said, I go back to the Nairobi. If the file you are in with your sister's
name, this will be okay. Otherwise I don't come to help. Okay. And she distributed me the
phone to fail. And she told me come me 10 here where she asked me where you are. I said
it as Roma at UCLA. And she tells me you're competing here. Yes, yes. And she's telling me
bring me here or interview. If everything is okay, when I go back there I did that one I feel
that phone on I come back to the server. I take all my children to the ggV interview I put
the application all my story. I finish medical schooling and education everything. What
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was funny, the person who interviewed me was Russian American. I want to see really got
Dr. O'Keefe she used to be considered a Russian a few years we are the change of the
English language professional. Okay, he helped me to absolutely pick up the bruises and
he told me come may 20 back here for a last interview that was a parameter interview
and he put very very good report on me and I will I know go back to the survive stay there
and 20 May I built the interview the other person to get reporters right that person and he
asked me to question only because in the Monday show I have interested here some
bullets come through my throat yeah and hit me here
K
Kathleen Clark 46:09
In your left side?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
46:11
Yeah, This left side and he asked me to put it here because he didn't dare to lift him up
like that everything is fit into what I plan was very sustainable. That's good. That's it come
27th for result in me all was in me 10 may 20 may 27. I come back to me and the killer
musician come for health screening. You go to America Wow. I go back to the echo in
West that's me August we did a health screening everything September I come to Atlanta
I know I'm planning to come to United States absent now when I left it from Nairobi from
Kenya as I move with phenomenal it took it mirror with us over to work day
K
Kathleen Clark 47:25
So can you tell me when you got shot was that was that during the Civil War you were just
in the wrong?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
47:31
Yes during the Civil War day once Mogadishu everybody was pilot every word day and
night? Absolutely. I know what one morning I come Oh my god. Angela to have breakfast
look I was sitting on the table I took that idea like that and pull it from there well I think
my height of the hit here and of the death hit by a choose that was not broken but the
tech is a part of the meat here very very difficulty I didn't mean to not you know go down
wherever it is Civil War everywhere. But I came by in my home every day first aid I need it.
Absolutely. And I think Tim single and but since he can almost a two week and of course
was swelling but broken bone. Absolutely.
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K
Kathleen Clark 48:44
So can you tell me how did you end up in Minneapolis coming from Atlanta?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
48:51
I've learned iOS one year. The Cleamons is very good. They're very he had a very nice but
one of my son who come before me here he would live here he said Bob is very good here
and the system is better than Atlanta because in Atlanta when we was all Mr. Five months,
they cut health insurance. Safety you must walk my wife must walk mommy they got a
headache children see and they might send send me please you come here because the
people the the health is the administration and the demonstration at different people
they are helping the people. They don't have any insurance and I think after my writers fell
from Atlanta to Minnesota, Payless in Eagan, living in Eagan, come I come I London 1996
and I come Minnesota 1997 September September when I was in resort health insurance
and they give you some cash but they tell me you must find work All right here we are me
I'm okay. If you get insurance on his assistant I can find book I'm the enemy to find work
and one day they take me to the factory of the hoodoo medicine there when I got there
they will be they put me at the machine with the cover the bottle of the syrup your cover
some plastic bottle you cover some plastic bottles for technician and all day well I knew I
was there two days early I didn't know you know must quit you must walk otherwise you
will know what we can assistant attend to what they can do.
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
51:23
The other thing was is it a journal and I saw you base your know your base Yeah. I get
some part time job from 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock four hours they pay $8 per hour Okay,
very good for them 10 to 12 to 12 o'clock for our this and when I live in the center of their
ups in Eagan is not far from death very good Give me one we can have to finish I will walk
every single day put here some computers and you must scan every mile away to go and
everything to put here on the way finish okay one way can have to be very nice but I don't
know it's coming out when I finished over digitas they take me someplace euro this trailer
big trailer on the empty trailer there some machine but in the package you mistake
everything but in the trailer this this is very very long but do not take any the youth must
act can protest and when you are doing this their machine is running and over everything
they come in one after one and they follow the machine you're mixing in a row you
remember relay and you remember this was very very cool Yes. That the call in Minnesota
was all Mr. 25 meanness great IUR put this really sweet yeah so I did Yes Really? I was my
sister and I remember even I put everything nice Nothing worse I go by your work for hours
I go home driven universe conceived wherever you come like this type of we just know said
if I quit they could have insurance everything but what they can do was they fired me I
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don't quit but they fired me because I did some regulation if they if you're fired you have a
chance but if you quit you do not have chance. One day I put without scanning to
repackage it and someone come from the center of it they see what you are doing they
run buddy with you Only you there LR machine but they see everything you are doing and
someone come here said you did in five minutes five Frank think if you do other one other
time we fire you okay bye bye sit there and tell the supervisor look the police what they
are doing this people okay that night the finishing the second night I come back that
supervisory fear fear face job because if I do something and she doesn't drive me the fire
has but as he she put some think in the machine is coming now he's looking but they know
show AICF and I put that in put dish and she called me come here you are fire me Thank
you sir. I tell him, thank you so much.
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
56:14
And I go home and I go learn the next morning to the welfare people I said I lost my job I
said why they fire me why you're not in a good system without knowledge. Okay, we
finally get a job from either Port St you're not disappearing Good job. You take this cash.
There's a you take that cash dash Wow, different cars different model for five minutes dish
shrink cash that I get distributed the Mises Amai to the Department of Health. Hennepin
everything and Department of Health have been made it through it by occurs. And when
they called me for the monument medical centers, they come here for an interview. And I
was there to interview me. And they give me job criticism elevation and focus. I finish I left
my job of the train crash 16 July and ice tested 17 to lie to the Hennepin Medical Center
only when the second day. Job good death a living here in 2008.
K
Kathleen Clark 57:46
So what did a typical day look like when you were working? What was a typical typical
day like for you there? And what were some of the barriers patients were
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
57:56
good they hear me because they have said it very, very difficult quality because the
system in Somalia and honey here was differently. The people they don't understand what
is medical insurance. They don't understand what's prime Healthcare's they don't
understand what's appointment. And they made a point in 10 people number they come
that day. And they come second day. They people have some insurance, and this hospital
not accept that insurance. And the person company and why they not accept my
insurance was that difficulty because there was not a lot of Donnelly on this forum begin in
Somalia, Minnesota. And they have very difficult to therefore it to navigate the health
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system to help disseminate to navigate the health system and so money explain the
difference. We shouldn't see. They explained the primary health they expand upon the
mentee. And I did a call the day before the appointment it to people to remember them. I
created in any bed Medical Center. I tell look, we're Somali, we're not after these
parameters. You get a lot of people in the merchants therefore you must get a walk in
clinic. And I could decorated the medicine clinic clinic where I work almost all day. The
people come with they have some problem dish in the center of the emergence.
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
59:39
Past very good. day like as a day when I retired that they said why you go while you are
now the Somali 11 years they live in English there, we had a lot of interpreters left for that I
can work every morning here. That was a very good job. But also them like navigate I
think some time doctor is to explain the day community test our how we think so Molly,
absolutely. The medical director, there were two different days this way I will teach. You
can talk with a person one day your have a fundamental person, because there's a family
communities are very nice people. But they must trust you, if you want to take your
advice. If they not trust you, they knew it take you at a price. Therefore you must air you
did their trust. And I teach you some language that they do when they pay. But can we set
so low? For so. And we went in this tool what? They help you this person therapy, you
know, it was very nice.
K
Kathleen Clark 61:04
So why did you tell me more about the East Africa health project? Why did you start that?
And what are your hopes for work there?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
61:14
In 2004, I started designing Big East African help or a check to the community because I
still do some education on the non walk in any medical center but do some education on
to the community to talk do some seminars to to to the media Absolutely. For that they
created this number of organization and Dakota my friend Dr. Price who helped me we
work together and we decided to do this don't do much education to the community.
K
Kathleen Clark 62:03
So and then you also created the health Commons in Cedar Riverside neighborhood to
that's partnership with Oxford University and the University of Minnesota health. So and
that was starting in 2009. So, what is the health comments and why did you think this
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work was needed?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
62:26
The Health Commons is very very good system this I think the bridge between community
and health facility disappearing fairly because we are doing a lot of activity which the
community need and which the community now get from the clinic. For example, where
education one hour one day non get community forum primary parameter but they not
have time. They reviewed me seen they now get for clinic but they get for a male common
all day advice on what we're doing and how we educate the community. Tina good
parameter you know the TechStars they have very, very limited time to see the patient.
Dinner experienced everything. A lot of people take a lot of medicine which they not see
me even non them nobody showed them that medicine. And when they bring home and
they open TC low lot of different diminishing but they don't stand with for what and
therefore we tell them be to bring a tree for you. They will see it and explain on everything.
We do some activity of like a yoga or exercises or massage on this I think the hell come on
is very, very good. Think I like it to open different area in the Minnesota rally because this
the way we can break the health spirit. Because like this health common, and this can help
a community to understand because we explain the system, we experimentation and we
experienced the appeal of light of the patient. And we educate the community to exist to
do very, very good. think for themselves. Absolutely.
K
Kathleen Clark 64:42
So what was the community's response to the health comments?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
64:45
Yeah, let the community respond. And they appreciate. Absolutely. And they appreciate.
They come in there on every day we see people, different people and the community they
appreciate. Absolutely.
K
Kathleen Clark 65:02
So what type of health related concerns do people come in with the most So you
mentioned medication review and needing primary care? So what are the what are the
most common questions that people typically have when they come to visit with you at
the health conference?
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D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
65:18
For example, different they come for free of the medicine, they come for the question
what the coverage are, you determine a month they come to the doctor is maybe a half
differently to proclaim. But the doctor deal with on a and they come back and non very,
very happy for our clinic because the doctor asked them other things they have. And
when they come as they say I've been the doctor and I have three purple AM but he
turned me on the Despicable Me and I have this thing. And we explain why they do that.
And we explain why you must tell that that the main complaint of you have not
everything to have number they can solve when they were all you have this education to
the community how to deal with the clinical program here. And the other thing they don't
understand the for example, someone have the capital of an operation, they administer,
they get prescription medicine, but they don't understand they must take this medicine
forever. They think this like antibiotic rain one day take one month, two months, they stop
and this is a very very dangerous one. And we explained the they must take this medicine
forever Absolutely. And if they have some purple MU go back to the doctor, other people
take medicine from the people who have any knowledge of their health, tell them this
medicine is very now good they are mounting and they throw the medicine do not take
the medicine and they know go back to the doctors. Therefore this is a very very good AL
common to educate the community and explain the future of their life and tell them they
are responsible for their life. Absolutely.
K
Kathleen Clark 67:29
And I know you mentioned that doctors here need to build trust with their patients. But
what other recommendations might you have for health care providers when they're
working with Somali patients to be culturally sensitive?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
67:42
Yeah, I think the providers must they must understand the culture of the person they visit
they must understand his vision they measure they must understand his religion what he
believe with he think if they talk a one or two words of their language for a sample one
day I take my wife to the clinic and that that will our whole set to report us a cutter at the
was not there that thing we was emergency surgery was the other doctor but the other
doctor was very good a very very clever one and he 11 sam so my language and see it
could be the first period to clear look up left right in so many we come out from there my
wife said this doctor is very good doctor and I tell her I say that this is your first time you
see since his pics are Malik is really good to learn some language Somali Spanish
whatever this is better for them to get the rest of the patient.
RG 21.4.2017.10.31 Dr Osman.mp3
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K
Kathleen Clark 69:13
So can you explain to me a little bit about access to food in the neighborhood I know that
there's some differences in traditional food that people in Somalia versus here Do you
have any thoughts on that
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
69:26
Look there Somalia we eat only three times a day morning lunch and dinner and we not
too much for unhealthy food our food was completely natural one day meet to slow that
this morning the meek come from so not in Corporation they have a completely different
life out therefore and they are the biggest in class the Somali wash every body work
meaning on eight hours daily for work or for TV on whatever therefore, whatever we eat in
so money that we consume, because for that activity or that walk or that life and but
when we come here we eat a lot of food very very fast food a lot of shifting sedentary life,
the non walk the people talk by phone or by cash that people eating and eating lunch
then Somalia. Therefore we start to now to have some people who have who are who are
all very obese. We see people who have not kept at Coachella This year our big problem
now we are getting some money to come in obese diabetic or blood pressure or
cholesterol because of the lack of food and less of activity.
K
Kathleen Clark 71:30
What role does faith and religion have in people's health practices would you say?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
71:37
In Somalia, all they are Muslims rally and they believe their religion and they practice rally
in Minnesota when I come was only one small mosque when mosque but today we have
almost a more of a the mosque in most of them down altering their own from community
practice and the belief really they enjoyed early absolutely now Minnesota one of the
popular Somali community in the United States the people they're doing very well.
K
Kathleen Clark 72:22
Is there any proverbs that really guide your practice your health practice for yourself? Are
there any favorite proverbs that you have that you use when you're feeling like you're
having care burner burnout or anything like that? Is there any proverbs you turn to
typically? Or is there a proverb that you like the most from the Quran to reflect on when
you're thinking about health?
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D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
72:52
You yeah really the Quran help to healing if you believe most of the lot of the current after
can afford health most of you can find a lot of the soul I who talk about health or
prevention and everything and Corrado commanded to to a very very cool think for held
up so even for eating the Knesset, you divide your Irish term a three part one for food, one
for water and work for a fish and that's to prevent the obesity and absolute the overeating
and the Quran access to excess exercise and even the praying five time is very very good
for health because five damn good to exercise five time you killing yourself. Five thing you
are putting out before God therefore is very the Quran is very, very good. And very
healthy. The people are set the Quran and the advice of the Quran take a very, very good
job a good life.
K
Kathleen Clark 74:16
And I know you need to leave in 15 minutes. I'm just going to ask two more question. What
would you say? Or how has the political climate in the US affected people's health or
happiness in the Somali community?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
74:33
The political life of the United States bristling down this after last election is non court
rally and our president is I think his strategy I think not friendship to some everyone to see
what he's doing go a day. is a secretive or there are everything is not good. Absolutely.
Average is different from our previous president the valley, but usually they do.
K
Kathleen Clark 75:12
Okay, well, since like the Affordable Care Act, how has that how are how is that worked in
the community? I think you were a mentor navigator.
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
75:23
Yeah. This is a Obamacare we call this the best think the percent of Obama he did for
government for some above for American. So people absolute for health. I x rated the
next person the two universal health non cut the previous one. Therefore, I think why he
think to spell the Obamacare. The other thing if I think this a first time United States
person to go back and destroy what did the other person the previous in this first time I
see Absolutely. My 22 years in the state. But I hope this only will be four years, which after
four years will come out again.
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K
Kathleen Clark 76:23
Alright, my last question. What do you think the community will be like in 20 years from
now?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
76:32
If now we notice that prevent obesity, collaboration, debating cholesterol, they will prefer
a better word purposes. Therefore I am booked all my effort to prevented this Chronicle
preventable disease. The otherwise after 20 years we get a lot of people who are obese
healthy the gut can live very well. Absolutely careful. Just so many commitments wake up
now and prevent this Chronicle disease and this Chronicle disease of preventable
diseases. Therefore, we put all our effort to educate community to go right direction of
good health, then from direction.
K
Kathleen Clark 77:30
Anything else you want to add before we wrap up?
D
Dr. Osman (Harare)
77:33
I think we understand where my English
K
Kathleen Clark 77:41
Well, thank you so much for your time. Okay. Okay.
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Show less
RG 21.4.2017.11.27a.Rye.mp3
Thu, 08/08 11:18AM
29:05
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, transitional housing, commons, students, women, stay, nursing, affordable housing,
homeless, health, central, church, public housing, nurses, place, group, question, minneapolis, grew,
lunch
SPEAKERS
Jenna Ne... Show more
RG 21.4.2017.11.27a.Rye.mp3
Thu, 08/08 11:18AM
29:05
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, transitional housing, commons, students, women, stay, nursing, affordable housing,
homeless, health, central, church, public housing, nurses, place, group, question, minneapolis, grew,
lunch
SPEAKERS
Jenna Nelson, Kathleen Clark, Debra Rye
K
Kathleen Clark 00:00
So my name is Katie Clark. I'm Assistant Professor of Nursing at Augsburg University.
Thank you for joining us today. Deb before we get started, do you consent to be
interviewed and having the interview stored at Oxford University's library, which will be
made available to the public?
D
Debra Rye 00:16
Yes, I give my consent.
K
Kathleen Clark 00:19
That's wonderful. Okay down Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
D
Debra Rye 00:23
Okay, I I grew up in Albert Lea Minnesota. Um, graduated from high school in 71. went to
college at Mexico State until 75. But I didn't graduate. Then I am move back to Albert lead
tried to get some work but I didn't. ended up with a situation in 78 where I moved away
from Albert Lea and was up north. I have a situation where in 1989 I found myself still
shelter across the street. Central Lutheran Church, that time central had a clothes closet.
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And Health Commons got quite started yet. So I wasn't really familiar with the area, but I
found myself staying downtown until I found more permanent housing was this was my
first familiarity with cetera. And then a few years later, the health comments, I think
started. I was 9192 92. But because I had been going to the Monday church service that
central had available for people.
D
Debra Rye 01:40
I found myself meeting Bev Nilsson and at the time, the nursing center was located in the
basement and then at two doors. It was kind of hard it was I kind of let there be They had
some hygiene items, and I had problems with my blood pressure. So it was a good place
for me to go on to get my blood pressure checked. Okay, so then....
K
Kathleen Clark 02:14
where were you living at that time? were you living in Minneapolis?
D
Debra Rye 02:17
I was living in Minneapolis, but I stayed in the shelter for a few, like maybe three weeks
when I found housing over on the West Bank, in Minneapolis, so I stayed in. I stayed over
there for a while. And I didn't really come back over this way was living around the West
Bank. And then in that early part of the 90s, I had in and out of the hospital with some
mental health issues. And when I had that sometimes I would lose my LZ and I found
myself eventually Over in the Stevens community area, which is close to Central. And by
that time, Bev I think what has like, I think she, she retired. She was hanging around for a
while, but I'm Ruth and Linda became a new directors. And as I'm trying to figure out one
that was I think it was like '99-2000. Somewhere around there somewhere around that.
But I still was connected with the church because of the Monday lunch and the church
service because I really found the church service was something that was appealing to
me. They had a minister there was was familiar for, for my own town, this his wife had
growing up. So I was kind of connected more to the church part. And slowly then, as these
new couple of directors came in, I got to know
K
Kathleen Clark 04:03
So what do you remember about? Why did you want to start the health comes, you
remember that at all?
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D
Debra Rye 04:10
Well, there was some there was a minister that she was talking to, to try and find a place
where she could have like a walk in place where you could talk to a nurse, and I can't wait
to get right that's right. But they they came up with a plan and the damage approved by
the central console. And so she was able to I don't know how she raised your money to get
I don't know if that was an issue. But um, there was some controversy at first to get
started, but it got eventually she got it approved with the help one of the minister's Not
remember which minister it was, I could see his face
K
Kathleen Clark 05:05
Well, so how does how is the health Commons now compared to when it first began?
D
Debra Rye 05:13
Oh first began It was more like you just kind of walked in and get some ideas and maybe if
there was time you would get your blood pressure taken. I think she had somebody come
to help like a receptionist type person, and she did keep records. So she kept records. I
would say that it was more than he did. He didn't get to know I didn't get to know Ben
really well. She didn't get to know me it was more. Pick up some hygiene or pair of socks
and and go on.My Way, as, as shedeveloped the nursing program, I think what happened
was, they were more nursing students. So when it starts out it is kind of slow as you kind
ofexplain it, and it was good as just but it was justnot as many people involved, you know.
Andthen as they had the two directors then they would have maybe a student that was
working on their masters or their deep doctorate degree would maybe stay there longer.
So it depends, you know, I'm...I don't know what to say.
K
Kathleen Clark 06:40
Well no, that's perfect, because I mean, there's so much like, I feel like some of the
numbers, like looking at the numbers from the first year till now like the first year's
numbers compared to now are much smaller, and it was much more white or much now.
It's a lot more diverse, you know, so I just see like in the numbers, things have shifted, but I
don't have the stories to capture what is behind those numbers. Is that really the reality of
what happened or is that what you saw?
D
Debra Rye 07:19
When I first started coming it was smaller groups and it was mostly white people. And
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then I think probably around '93, '92-'93, there was more immigrants that came in we had
a lot more mixture of people coming and it just kind of grew. So it was more Hispanic and
African primarily Somalian people that will come that we didn't have before. And it just
happened to be because that's they came to Minnesota and since we were so located
centrally people found out about the free sex and the hygiene and the lunch. So yeah, it
that that there was a significant change. And I can't tell you exactly what year because I
don't remember but there was a significant change in immigration in the Twin Cities in the
90s. And that,that helped her. I mean, we had more people coming to the church and for
the Monday luncheon, and that's what it changed.
K
Kathleen Clark 08:36
I just seems like the numbers of homeless individuals in Minneapolis has grown as well.
Like as the numbers grew, it kind of follows the trend of like what Wilders has seen and all
that too, you know, from--
D
Debra Rye 08:48
As the immigration came it was harder to find more places Lyft because of the more
people that needed low income housing or affordable housing, and it just isn't enough
that you? I mean, I don't think there's any new public housing from when I first came here.
I think just the high rises are the same. I don't think they built any new Minneapolis Public
Housing, for sure. But I might be wrong. There might be little other places other maybe
transitional housing. I know I'm aware because of transitional housing, then I ended up in
later.
K
Kathleen Clark 09:28
So what keeps you coming back to the House of Commons because 1992 till now, that's
25 years.
D
Debra Rye 09:35
Yeah, I kept on coming back. I think part of being dis-on disability, and not really making
very many friends, I developed a rapport with the nurses, and I just kept on coming back
because they were nice to me. And sometimes when we go out like maybe once a week
we love for coffee and talking, she would accompany both Ruth and Linda, with
sometimes it company names, doctors appointments. And it was the some support that I
didn't have from other people, it was a good thing. That way she could learn about what
it's like to be someone like that I was, you know, marginalized. And she could learn what
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was like for me to go through the hoops like going to the psychologist going to primary
care going even to a dentist.
K
Kathleen Clark 10:44
When I think like for me a question for you would be now you're volunteering here. And I
hear a lot of people say, when you are no longer homeless, it's hard to sometimes go back
to be around people who are homeless and to secure housing. So I just see so much
strength from the fact that you come back and volunteer.What--
D
Debra Rye 11:06
Well, I don't think of the people that I've met. Here, there are still some that I knew when I
was homeless. I'm not saying that I'm really close, intimate to a lot of people, but I still
care. Just like I know that how hard it is to be outside, or how it's like to not have to go eat
a lunch, not making your own lunch. I know what that's like, I understand all that. It's like I
know how to hold someone's hand on that hungry, because I've been hungry. And I still
feel in my heart that there's something that I can do. And and this is a place where I could
just be here and see people that I have that that my face might be struggling. And I don't
know if I give them my support, but I've just been there with them, because I've been there.
K
Kathleen Clark 12:00
So if there is something that you could change about the Health Commons now, is there
anything that you can think about that you change?
D
Debra Rye 12:12
I think sometimes we get sometimes we get a lot of people and I think sometimes there
might be people that want to talk one on one, and they just don't have enough time,
because it's just too busy. And there's not enough staff together.
K
Kathleen Clark 12:30
And being in the trailer this year is not helping--
K
Kathleen Clark 12:32
And then then, yeah, being in a trailer is not helpful.
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D
Debra Rye 12:35
But all things going to be better new site to understand it bigger and better.
K
Kathleen Clark 12:41
So you are the founder of the women's group, etc. Can you tell me more about that?
D
Debra Rye 12:47
Well, we used to own sometimes during the time that the Health Commons was open, I
would go in they had another room and we will sit and talk, especially if there was wasn't
too many people there. And we had a separate room. So you can have some privacy that
I guess I have to go back down to say, when you want to talk to staffers or nurse or
something, you don't get as much privacy as you think. And I guess that would be the one
thing. There was that room that we could go and sit and talk. And then I said you know. I
mean, it took a long time for me to get to know and they and and Ruth and Linda and
whoever, there was jewels there and Martha was there, it takes a while to develop a
relationship and if I know. But in regards to that, there needed to be a place where I could
find a group of people. And I didn't know who they were going to be. But I said to Ruth
one day, it would be better if we add a group just for women, to see how other people are
getting along and see if we could have some kind of relationships, trusting and built on,
you know, honesty and not, you know, like sometimes I'd be on the street and as
somebody were working, and they wouldn't tell me eager to find out things that I needed
to know. So, um, I believe, I think one of the students was working on a paper. And as she
got to know other women, I think that's how it really started was Sandy, getting the
women to come? And I think that's how it really got developed because of the graduate
student working on meeting other women and getting the time to get together.
K
Kathleen Clark 14:44
Can you tell me what a typical women's group look like? People probably won't know...
D
Debra Rye 14:51
It could be. there was all kinds of different people. I mean, there somebody summer and
have them come to the church or the health Commons or the clothes closet with their
friends or some come alone in so many different walks of life. But mostly because we were
poor, or we were grandparents that didn't that needed to help our grandchildren find
some clothes and things like that. So there's a lot of I mean, some women might have
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lived on North Minneapolis didn't matter where, but I think we can because there was the
clothing available and the nursing available. So
K
Kathleen Clark 15:44
When I know when they had bus cards, it was very well attended. And it's been a little less
attended the last two years, but...
D
Debra Rye 15:52
Well, I think it would be good as just, you know,when it first started, there was some groups
that have been coming. And not just coming to the health conference, but we've gotten to
know each other in the church thing or the, you know, the Monday service. And we had
developed friendships through that by having lunch together, eating together. And so that
just kind of carried over into when, when the health commerce decided to do the women's
group, just kind of there was some luminary there that just came, you know, so I don't, and
then some people have moved out of state and, you know, not everybody stays around.
So now it's trying to get that I don't really get that core group get dedicated. Again, I think
maybe the Busker had something to do with it, but but also there was women that had
been coming here on a regular basis. And and, and we just a little just decided to come to
the women's group, I just ended up starting another group, but would be a great idea.
K
Kathleen Clark 17:09
So how have the students have been incorporated from the start? And how do you see the
students contributing to the health comments? Besides, you know, creating the women's
group, but how about when we're open on a regular day? Or the students you see the
students is helping and, and this is vital to their education?
D
Debra Rye 17:31
Well, you know, it's different for each student, because they might be from Rochester and
ever, and they might not have any familiarity with? Well, I don't know how to say this. It
depends upon the students background. And I've noticed that some students, not very
many, but little walk out of here and say, I'm never coming back here again. I mean, I
don't want to say that it's just that the familiarity with I'm poor person. And that might like
I don't know what it's like to be well to do. And if I was even middle income, I don't know
what that's like, or, and so, I might come I might swear more, I might not have a nice
haircut, I might not wear makeup. I mean, I might look different to someone that comes
from middle class or, you know, I might, you know, I don't know how to explain it. But if you
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don't understand mental illness, chemical dependency, and you see someone that comes
in, staggering, it might be overwhelmed. So on a very rare occasion, I, a student might
walk out. I mean, I've seen it a couple of times, but mostly, in most cases, the students are
eager to learn and up here. Yes. And once I get adjusted to the environment, if things fine,
because people like to listen. And it goes both ways.
K
Kathleen Clark 19:12
So if you were to give any advice to nurses taking care of people in the hospital, or
working in ER, or anything like that, what suggestions would you have for people to be
able to connect to somebody who might be homeless? Or have mental illness or any of
those things? What is a good? What should nurses know?
D
Debra Rye 19:32
Well, main thing is need to listen to people. But if I come in there if I was intoxicated, I
don't know how I would react because you need to take appropriate means the council
down. So I don't know what a nursing role does for that. I mean, because that's different.
Because you could I could like, in me, I could swing at somebody and not not because I've
wasted, didn't want, you know, I don't want to be restrained. I don't think anybody wants
to be restrained. But when you're out of control, or if you're having a psychotic break, I
don't know how I don't know what personally will, how you're trained to deal with that. But
when someone comes in and they're sober, and they're been on the street, haven't had
any sleep for a few nights are hungry. The main thing is to listen to people and trying to
figure out what their needs are at the time. You know, sometimes I would end up in the
hospital, but I'm not everybody's going to be and then not need them have the need to
speak in the hospital. So I guess having the resources or the know how, where can you put
somebody? which shall can they go to because they don't have a place to sleep? You
mean, you can't use the hospital as a shelter? So I mean, I know some people go to the ER
one and just too old and have nowhere else to go. So having having the knowledge of
where the resources I suppose this is know that now some people just get escorted off the
grounds, you know, but you're not..well that's all I know.
K
Kathleen Clark 19:33
Well and then I know that you talked about affordable housing be lack of affordable
housing being an issue, which is very well documented as a problem in this city, for sure,
and the county and the state. But if there was one thing that people should really work on
around homelessness, do you have an idea of what from your perspective? What would
that be? What do people need who are experiencing homelessness or extreme poverty?
RG 21.4.2017.11.27a.Rye.mp3
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D
Debra Rye 22:02
I had to use transitional housing, the waiting list for public housing, I don't think they're
taking names. So transitional housing can be a possibility. But here again, is still the same
thing. Where they going to have it out who's in what apartment? What landlord is going
to allow some of his units used for transitional housing. That's a big deal. I don't there is no
solution. As long, you know, people that I know people that are have two, three jobs and
they still can't find affordable housing. That's that's a big things.
K
Kathleen Clark 22:50
One other question as a woman who's experienced homelessness or living in extreme
poverty, what has that been like? Because I've, I've heard people say that it's a lot different
for women to experience that than men.
D
Debra Rye 23:05
Well, I'm remember, where can I go to the bathroom? That was a big deal. Or if I had my
period, I don't have any town. So can I get some? But of course, the main thing was not
being sexually abused on the street not being that was a big deal. And trying to stay
sober. Now, does that mean outside being homeless? Here, it's it's very difficult. Usually, I
didn't have money. So then I'm going from one place for breakfast, another place for
lunch. And that's how it's set up. You can go and keep you moving around. That's how the
city does it. keep you moving around from place to get another meal. But you so
vulnerable, because I'm sure there's guys that just drive around that area, because you're
so somebody say you want a pack of cigarettes, or you know, I mean, it's just bad. It's not
safe does not. I remember trying to avoid somebody and run into a police officer. And the
police officer says, we'll just keep going with that person. He kept me is this stay with that
person? I'm like, Oh, you can't find any help. So I gotta stop because this is too much.
K
Kathleen Clark 24:41
No, that's fine. We also have a graduate student, Jenna Nelson here as well. Jenna, do you
want to introduce yourself?
J
Jenna Nelson 24:49
I'm Jenna.
Kathleen Clark 24:51
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K
Kathleen Clark 24:51
I should introduce you at the beginning. I just want to make sure that Do you have any
questions as far as or is there anything I'm missing?
J
Jenna Nelson 25:00
No, I can't think of anything. I think it was like a health care. Like what would you need
from like, er nurses? Or like, I think you kind of shared that. And then I don't know, are
there any other like services that you know,
D
Debra Rye 25:14
There's one thing about your lot of times I I have like high blood pressure. But I might not
get I might be without medicine. So I wouldn't have high blood pressures, because I
wouldn't have my medicine. So that's one of the reasons that I would have to go to the ER
because I will, I was with my heart condition. That's a big deal to if you're homeless, you
might not have your medicine. Or I remember staying at a shelter. And I had to go get
verification from the Tony. And I left my stuff in my room. And my when I came back, they
had gotten rid of all of it, because they had a rule or something. And I'm like, Are you
kidding me? Like, and that happened to me more than one occasion you're sent out
because they have a rule that you have to get this verification for housing, and then you
come back and then other stuff is gone. So yeah, I mean, homeless, you lose your stuff a
lot. So it's good place that good thing that central as close it because sometimes you
don't have a need, or you just got one outfit? Or someone who's still your coach. That's
another thing. All right.
K
Kathleen Clark 26:45
Did you have anything? Would you say?
J
Jenna Nelson 26:47
Oh, so I guess the other question was like, what, where do you go? Like, I guess what are
other places you go to that he's found helpful. So it sounds like the comments have been
helpful when you start going to this church, did that seem to help?
D
Debra Rye 26:59
Yeah, then there was there was a place on Franklin Avenue was called Catholic Charities
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that was open early in the morning. So you can get some hot cereal, why don't drink
coffee, but it was a place to sit. If you if I was out all night, that'd be the first place I would
go because that'd be the first place that was open. And that place might I then you got to
find a place where you can take a shower. And so there's Sharing and Caring Hands. And
there was there was another place. There was a woman shelter. That's not there anymore,
but it was on Franklin. So sometimes I find myself staying there. But you had to be out in
at seven in the morning. And you couldn't come back until three. But the good thing about
that was you could start to rebuild in. I apply for apartments and then you had a mailing
address. That's another thing. Where can you get where can people contact you if you're
homeless? And so I did for a while have a post office box at the main post office in
downtown Minneapolis. Because I needed to have an address where people can write to
me and say my apartment was available.
K
Kathleen Clark 28:35
You have such a wealth of knowledge and information and stories. So thank you i Is there
anything else you want to add or share? Or I think I asked you all the questions I really had
on my agenda.
D
Debra Rye 28:52
Okay. I can't think of anything and I hope I gave you some insight.
K
Kathleen Clark 28:59
Thank you. So you're done.
D
Debra Rye 29:00
You're welcome. [they all laugh]
RG 21.4.2017.11.27a.Rye.mp3
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Show less
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler,
2018
Tue, 3/9 1:32PM
25:18
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
commons, health, people, individuals, augsburg, community, neat, volunteer, nurse, comments,
patients, led, stigma, hear, volunteering, homeless, rapport, location, received, experience
SPEAKERS
Sam... Show more
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler,
2018
Tue, 3/9 1:32PM
25:18
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
commons, health, people, individuals, augsburg, community, neat, volunteer, nurse, comments,
patients, led, stigma, hear, volunteering, homeless, rapport, location, received, experience
SPEAKERS
Samantha Gibson, Alisha Stahler
S
Samantha Gibson
00:00
Hello, my name is Samantha Gibson, and I'm an AmeriCorps VISTA worker with health
commons, would you please introduce yourself for the recording?
A
Alisha Stahler 00:07
Hi, my name is Alicia Stahler, and I am Augsburg student at the Augsburg University for
the nursing program for a bachelor's degree.
S
Samantha Gibson
00:18
Great, thank you. So I just like to reaffirm for the recording that you consent having this
interview and a transcript stored at the library, Augsburg University, where it'll be made
available to the public.
A
Alisha Stahler 00:30
Yes, I have consented for that.
Samantha Gibson
00:32
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 1 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
S
Samantha Gibson
00:32
Great. The last thing I'd like to mention is that there may be some background noise. Is
there some lawn maintenance going on? That's, that's what that buzzing sound is. Alright.
So to get us started, would you please tell me a little bit about where you grew up, and
who you called family.
A
Alisha Stahler 00:50
So I grew up in a small town with a family of four brothers and our parents. We are a
middle class, family. And like most families are some families, we grew up with some
struggles, I had four brothers who did struggle with some alcohol and drug addiction. We
also had extended family of aunts and uncles and cousins that we spent a lot of time with,
we had game nights with them. Our family was pretty much involved in some church
activities, but never really volunteered for much within the community. As I got older,
though, I started to feel the need or felt led to get more involved into the community and
volunteer at a couple different things. I've only carest within the community here in my
surrounding area. And I also went on a mission trip to Guatemala. And I have also been
led to just do random acts of kindness, helping out people at a grocery store paying for
their groceries in line. So that kind of leads into the experience I had through Augsburg,
which kind of led me to get back into doing that.
S
Samantha Gibson
02:04
Okay, did you say that you grew up in Minnesota?
A
Alisha Stahler 02:08
Yep. here in Minnesota, just a small town of population was about 2000.
S
Samantha Gibson
02:14
All right, and how did you end up choosing Augsburg University?
A
Alisha Stahler 02:19
So I chose Augsburg because they're here they have a location here in the Rochester area.
And I have heard a lot of great things about their program. And also I really liked that
they're a faith based.
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 2 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
S
Samantha Gibson
02:35
Thank you. And how did your experience at Augsburg lead to you becoming involved
health commons?
A
Alisha Stahler 02:44
So my first nursing core class to get the bachelor's degree, one of they're not really
requirements, but one of their programs allowed us to volunteer at the Health Commons
in Minneapolis, which kind of seeing patients that were of a diverse culture that had low
social economic backgrounds. So it was just an experience that was outside of what I'm
used to as a nurse working in a health care in the hospital setting.
S
Samantha Gibson
03:21
Yeah, absolutely. What else can you tell me about your experience of health commons.
A
Alisha Stahler 03:26
So at first, I really wasn't sure what to expect, because I haven't really volunteered with
any low income, social backgrounds, you know, homeless kind of volunteering work. So I
really wasn't sure what to expect. It was interesting when we talked about it in the
classroom, just to see the kind of the stigma that goes along with that kind of culture. A
lot of people in the classroom hadn't really been around homeless or difficulties of that
people are faced with in the world today. So it was really interesting to hear what people's
thoughts were. And growing up the way I did having brothers struggle a lot with addiction
and drug abuse, and just the, somewhat of a dysfunctional in our family, I kind of been
involved with a lot of judgment and a lot of what the stigma is on, on people on this world.
So this program, kind of, I felt really led to it because it kind of was nice to go in for myself
not having judgment, I try not to have that kind of judgment on people. So the experience
was quite interesting and really rewarding.
S
Samantha Gibson
04:44
Good to hear. So you mentioned the talking about the experience in class, how was Health
Commons presented to fit in with your curriculum, and how well do you think that your
experience and health comments related to what you were learning
A
Alisha Stahler 04:58
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 3 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
so the point of doing this was to kind of just compare and contrast the difference between
a nurse working in a hospital kind of studying base and a nurse working in a community
kind of setting base. And it was really neat to see how the Augsburg Health Commons
provided more of a community base, and it was provided free and they provided a very
supportive and safe environment, and was very welcoming. And it was definitely not the
medical atmosphere that I was used to. They did things like blood pressure checks, talk to
some of the clients that came there may had respiratory issues I'd seen some people had
some eye and foot issues, it was neat to see how the nursing staff there, and the
volunteers how they all were there to listen and honor each individual that was there. And
they definitely built a rapport with these, these patients or people that were coming there.
And a lot of it was just meeting basic needs that we all kind of take for granted. They
offered socks and diapers, different kinds of toiletries, wipes, underwear, clothing, jackets,
hats, it was neat to see the I went during February, so it was right after the Super Bowl. So
hearing the kind of how a lot of these people that came to the Health Commons, to use
utilize all the support that they give, how they were kind of blocked off during the
Superbowl. So that was kind of challenging, and sad to hear that they were kind of not
able to walk on certain streets during that time. But it was neat to see the NFL had
actually dropped off some jackets. So a lot of the people that were coming into the Health
Commons, were able to get jackets to keep them warm during that cold time. So that was
really, really, really neat to see. And then just seeing the community connections that they
had. And the education that they were giving these patients are the people that were
coming in, it was pretty unique. And then prior to starting before the doors actually open.
One of the the nurses that was leading the health comments received a phone call from a
crisis center regarding an individual who had been coming there for some time. But during
that time, health comments was going under had some construction work going on. And
they had received this call that this individual had not eaten for four days. And they
hadn't seen him and he was pretty nervous about coming into the facility due to the
smaller location at the time. And they had asked the nurse to see if maybe she would kind
of walk around the community to see if they could find them and offer some help that the
health comments was able to provide for these individuals. So I actually had a very unique
experience where I was able to go with that nurse in walk was probably about six blocks
from the Health Commons location and find this individual. And when we found them, I
had stayed back and it was a very safe environment. And the nurse had actually walked
up to this gentleman who was wrapped in a couple of sleeping bags and had his items
around him. And she kind of went up and and stated his name and he peeked out. And I
saw this amazing smile on his face, which she was so surprised to see her. And she had
offered to supply him with some daily needs that the health comments had back at that
location. And so he gratefully accepted that and the nurse and I had walked back and
gathered some supplies for him. And then on the way back, I felt led to purchase a meal.
So we stopped at this location, and I was able to get a few sandwiches for him. So it was
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 4 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
really, really neat to actually walk the street and see some of these individuals that utilize
as the health comments. It's an experience I will always remember and never forget and
just so appreciative of that opportunity.
S
Samantha Gibson
09:21
Thank you for sharing that story. You mentioned how you related to your Health
Commons experience professionally as well as personally. Could you talk a little bit more
about how your experience in Health Commons fit or challenged your expectations in
both of those realms?
A
Alisha Stahler 09:39
Yeah, so it was just neat to see in the hospital setting. I'm so used to the patient
population that's more centered and focused. Whereas coming to volunteer at the health
Commons that's more driven on community based and it's definitely a variety of care and
skill. that's given to a particular population such as the homeless man that was there.
Also, the hospital setting were more focused on treatment and restoring a patient to their
baseline baseline, where the health Commons was more focused on promoting health
through education, and then through the community connections that they offer. And
then giving a lot of the individuals that came opportunities and references for needs that
they may need. The challenging through that is, the difference is that at the health
comments, most of these patients don't have really a medical insurance company that
provides them with as much as a hospital setting does. So a lot of them haven't been
medically diagnosed with things, they don't really receive a lot of preventative health
care, whereas in a hospital setting, most of those patients are receiving preventive care.
They see their primary providers, they have a diagnosis, and they're being treated as
appropriate for their diagnose. So it was really neat to see a group of people come
together at the health comments, and provide care for these people, they individuals that
may not have received care up anywhere else. So the challenge is to we're just seeing just
the need of this within the community at the health Commons. So it was hard to when we
came back to the house comments location and provided for the rest of the individuals
that were there, it was really hard to just give only a certain amount of items to these
individuals or would last longer, so they could provide more within the community. So that
was that was hard to see that. So it really made me want to help and challenged me to
want to do better and, and volunteer more, and things such as this.
S
Samantha Gibson
11:58
You know, thanks for your insight, that story that you told about doing sort of some
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 5 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
outreach to an individual who couldn't come into the health Commons location. I was
wondering how you would suggest that health comments could better accompany people
on their journey of health. And for example, things like doing those outreach services or
adding more hours that they're available?
A
Alisha Stahler 12:27
Yeah, I think that would be a really good idea to do. I think that Augsburg You know, this is
the only opportunity so far through any of my nursing, schooling or my nursing program.
When I did my associates degree we didn't. We didn't do any volunteering like this. In the
past, I've done research and we actually did some outreach. And we're able to go out to
different communities, we did a Somali community where we offered free blood draws.
And we're able to look at these patients to see if they had Hepatitis B, and we were able
to then bring them into the clinic and get them help or educate them. So I think that the
health dogs, Brickhouse Commons could definitely reach out more to doing that. I think
that would be a good idea for them to just open up more opportunities for students for
volunteering. And definitely, with just with classmates that, you know, have this stigma on
these people, I think it was a great opportunity for them to be able to go into the
community and see this, and maybe lose a little bit of their stigma that they have, and try
to push that, you know, disparity away that these will have and actually see them as an
individual and be able to reach out and give them the help that they need and finding the
different references and or different referrals and that are within the community that can
provide help to those individuals.
S
Samantha Gibson
14:01
In line with what you said, how has this experience? Or has this experience changed any
biases that you may have had about homeless or marginally housed individuals?
A
Alisha Stahler 14:13
I think I went in with pretty much an open heart and tried to not be judgmental, but I know
that there's been instances where I might be driving in the car and I'll see a homeless man
standing on the street and I'll get a feeling like Why does he need the money or I had an
instance where I actually helped somebody. And I had filled her gas tank up with gas and I
was actually working on my floor as a nurse and listening to somebody tell a story and it
was pretty much the same kind of similar situation and it turned out to be the same
person. And this individual ended up following the person that she had helped. And in that
situation, the person And actually went to a liquor store. So there is things in life where
people do lead you the wrong way. And that's where that stigma comes. But I think
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 6 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
generally in life that you should be open, and no matter if you're helping them or not, I
think that in life, we should all just provide and not have a bias or a stigma of what these
people are using their money for. But rather than just help these individuals and allow
them to, not all of them are doing that, and some need help. So I think that this has just
opened my eyes that everybody has a story and if we just opened up and not been so not
so judgmental to them, and allow them to get the help that they need. And opening this
community based facilities, such as the health comments will definitely be a good thing,
and to give health care back, and maybe prevent some of the things that are happening
within those individuals.
S
Samantha Gibson
16:03
Sure. From your your experience at Health Commons, can you tell me about some of the
strengths that you heard or learned from the people that you met?
A
Alisha Stahler 16:14
It was quite amazing to see the rapport that the volunteers and the nursing and the
nurses that led kind of instructors in the health Commons, they definitely were building a
good rapport with these patients, they trusted them. Even just walking on the street,
people were saying hi, as we walked by, and they knew this nurse that was leading the
program. And I think that it definitely improves the outcome for these vulnerable, this
vulnerable population who may not receive care elsewhere, or have limited resources. So I
think that it definitely is a strong base to have within a community because of the rapport
that's built, allowing them to come somewhere they feel safe, and they feel a lot of trust.
S
Samantha Gibson
17:05
You mentioned that report. Did you feel as though people felt welcomed into the health
common space? Do you have any suggestions on how we could welcome people better?
S
Samantha Gibson
17:15
During the time I, like I said, I went and there was some construction going on. And I know
that they had mentioned that the numbers were a little bit lower because of the smaller
building. And I think that when they have their construction done with a newer facility
that will be most likely rewarding. I think that just being in the small location that they
were at, at the time, a lot of the individuals that utilize their facility felt a little bit nervous
or felt too enclosed. So I think that finishing up with the construction project that they
had, and opening up a bigger center, I know they had mentioned that they had computers
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 7 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
for them to utilize and be able to kind of help them maybe get a job or find other
references. So I think that will definitely be a key thing for continuing to help the
individuals that are utilizing their program.
S
Samantha Gibson
18:15
Yeah, that construction that you mentioned, I believe it's actually supposed to be
completed this fall 2018. And they'll be moving back into the space. Do you have any
other suggestions or hopes for that space?
A
Alisha Stahler 18:30
No, I think just I think this is just a great opportunity that the health comments has led it's
vital service within their community. And it's definitely for a student. It's extended my
knowledge beyond the traditional learning that I've learned in a classroom setting or
within my job at the hospital. So I definitely think that for them to continue with that
connection within that community and partnering, partnering, partnering with other
references to provide a overall wholesome to get the needs that they need for being met
their basic needs, and I think that's going to definitely help them with their health in their
overall well being.
S
Samantha Gibson
19:18
Did your experience at health Commons impact your future career ideals or your personal
goals? Yeah, definitely.
A
Alisha Stahler 19:26
Like I said, I had volunteered for some stuff prior to this class. But as they say, out of sight
out of mind, I haven't volunteered probably in the last three to four years. So this this
actual program that I was able to volunteer at really opened up my heart and just, there's
so much that we can do within our community and I traveled to Minneapolis for this and I
know right here in Rochester, there are so many things that I can do. So it was a great
opportunity and it actually opened up my mind to hopefully In the near future, be able to
volunteer and give back within the community here.
S
Samantha Gibson
20:05
Great, yeah. What was most valuable or useful to you about your experience and health
commons?
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 8 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
20:14
Like I said, I think the most important thing was probably just watching and seeing the
rapport in that relationship that was built for these patients or these individuals. It just, it
was just an amazing experience with that part. And I think, going forward, it definitely is
going to continue to help people and I think that Augsburg should continue programs and
actually even try to see if they there's other programs that they can add to this for their
students.
S
Samantha Gibson
20:49
What do you think Health Commons could do better? Is there anything missing?
A
Alisha Stahler 20:55
I don't know that there's anything missing. Maybe besides having more opportunities to
volunteer at things, like I said, this is the first time I've done any of that. And the first time
I've even heard of a volunteering program like this through the, through the school. So I
think maybe the only thing is finding other opportunities, not only just in the low income
or the homeless, but maybe providing into you know, the alcohol or the drug addiction
and being able to provide for them to would be a neat thing to see. Also, I think it'd be
neat to, you know, a lot of elderly, I see a lot of elderly in the hospital setting that, you
know, struggle struggle with. And they know a lot of them are malnutrition. So I think even
helping that or volunteering to serve at homes or, you know, go into homes, rather than
having people come to them. And it was a great opportunity to be able to actually have
somewhat of an outreach experience when I was there. So I think that sometimes people
don't always come into a facility to get help. But I think allowing you to go to their home
or the street or wherever they're at would be a big impact.
S
Samantha Gibson
22:20
What, if anything, will you take forward with you from this experience?
A
Alisha Stahler 22:28
I think like I said, just taking back and and giving back from that experience, just put that
drive back in me. And knowing that when I see a homeless person now that from the
stories are heard in the facility, in the four hour, I was there probably about four hours, was
pretty amazing. Everybody has a story, and everybody has a situation. And we need to
stop judging on that and see individuals for who they are and honor them for them, and
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 9 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
not for the situation they're in and being able to provide and and help them in any way
that we can.
S
Samantha Gibson
23:10
Thank you. I know you already kind of told one story that stuck with you. But is there
another another tale of health Commons that really stuck with you from your experience?
A
Alisha Stahler 23:21
Yeah, there was I was able to sit and have comments and kind of hand out some toiletries
and some basic need items. And one of the volunteers that was there has been there, I
believe, for 15 plus years. And she was telling me her story about how she was homeless at
the time and was struggling with just daily needs and finding jobs. And she actually told
the story that the Augsburg health comments actually saved her life. And now she is
giving back by volunteering at that at the facility. And so it was really neat to see
somebody who actually received the help that health Commons gives to these
individuals, and to see how it's changed her life for the better. And she was very, very
grateful for it. And it was really neat to hear her story about it.
S
Samantha Gibson
24:18
That's an amazing story of the community, I think. Yes. Is there any topic that we didn't
talk about or anything you'd like to add?
A
Alisha Stahler 24:29
No, I think that we pretty much just covered our thing there. I think to just the the
donations that the health Commons receives, I think that they can even benefit for more
because there is such a need for the individuals that come. So it was really neat because
our our instructor had said if we felt led to you know, donate any items to the health
comments when we volunteered and I just think that just finding The referrals to find
people to bring in donations to help is probably a key thing. So just reaching out to the
community to get the support for them to run their program.
S
Samantha Gibson
25:11
Great. Thanks for taking some time to talk with me today.
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler,Page
201810 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
A
Alisha Stahler 25:14
Yes, you're welcome. Thanks for having me.
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler,Page
201811 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Tyra Thomas 2021
Thu, 7/29 12:23PM
25:36
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, pandemic, justice, happening, community, floyd, affordable housing, george, street, folks,
voices, struggles, commons, stay, nurse, grew, augsburg, salvation army, minneapolis, heard
SPEAKERS
Tyra, Isaac Tadé
I
Isaac T... Show more
Tyra Thomas 2021
Thu, 7/29 12:23PM
25:36
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, pandemic, justice, happening, community, floyd, affordable housing, george, street, folks,
voices, struggles, commons, stay, nurse, grew, augsburg, salvation army, minneapolis, heard
SPEAKERS
Tyra, Isaac Tadé
I
Isaac Tadé 00:01
Okay, here we go. Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the
Augsburg University Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tade, I'm a student
intern with Augsburg Central Health commons, could you please introduce yourself for the
recording.
T
Tyra 00:19
My name is Tyra Thomas.
I
Isaac Tadé 00:22
Thank you, Tyra. And before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to
being interviewed, and having that interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be
made available to the public.
T
Tyra 00:36
Yes.
I
Isaac Tadé 00:38
Tyra Thomas 2021
Page 1 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Thank you. Okay, so can you tell me about where you grew up and who you call family.
T
Tyra 00:42
I grew up in South Minneapolis Powderhorne Park neighborhood. I have lived in suburban
areas as well like Orno, Wayzata, Long Lake, Eagan, but I grew up in South Minneapolis
and who I call family is my community of homeless and Street Voices of Change, church
family, and I am the oldest child of three.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:11
Okay. Do you have any kids?
T
Tyra 01:13
I do. I have two children, one passed away. My oldest is 35.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:21
Okay. Excellent, thank you for sharing. Sounds like you have a lot of you have a big family.
T
Tyra 01:26
Yes, and I have three grandchildren.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:27
Oh, perfect, perfect. That's awesome. Okay, so can you tell me about how you got
involved with Street Voices of Change?
T
Tyra 01:39
Wow. Street Voices Change is about to have its five year anniversary,
I
Isaac Tadé 01:44
taking it all the way back
Tyra 01:45
Tyra Thomas 2021
Page 2 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
T
Tyra 01:45
then when we got together. It was a small group, just a handful of people. And it was
conversation around conditions at shelter. In particular the target was Salvation Army,
where all of our complaints were coming from, and within a year, the group grew from one
location to four.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:14
Wow, I didn't even know that.
T
Tyra 02:16
that's how much conversation and concerns folks had about conditions and treatment at
shelter.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:25
And so you were a part of the original group that founded Street Voices.
T
Tyra 02:31
Yes, yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:32
Wow. So you've seen, you've seen the full history of the program.
T
Tyra 02:38
Yes, watch it evolve to where we are now at the capital is just awesome.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:44
That's incredible.
T
Tyra 02:44
Yeah,
Tyra Thomas 2021
Page 3 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
I
Isaac Tadé 02:45
Wow, Well first of all I got to say congratulations.
T
Tyra 02:47
Thank you
I
Isaac Tadé 02:48
and, and this is this is awesome and thank you for letting me be a small part of it. So what
did life look like for you before the pandemic, and what is different for you now because of
COVID-19.
T
Tyra 03:05
Before the pandemic. I don't own a vehicle before the pandemic. I traveled a lot, so I was
always going across someone's community and seeing people I've may have seen in a
while, or being able to interact with folks. Being able to travel, because now I live a ways
from the city which is about an hour bus ride, And so it really hampered my traveling, and
because I didn't want to be exposed, right, of course, and it's going to happen the bus
would be one way
I
Isaac Tadé 03:44
and public transportation was down.
T
Tyra 03:46
Yes, and public transportation was down, so it was really hard to get around. Also I had, I
have a mental health specialist that comes to visit me, and that stops. So that was
hampering. We still had telecommunication where you can turn the phone but it's not the
same,
I
Isaac Tadé 04:09
of course,
T
Tyra 04:10
Tyra Thomas 2021
Page 4 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
you know, it's just like, you know Facebook people can say wherever they want or they can
send you a text say whatever they want, but looking at people's eyes, and they say, "How
you doing," you're saying "no, how you doing for real,"
I
Isaac Tadé 04:21
right, feeling them in the room.
T
Tyra 04:23
Yes, in the energy and space so that was different and difficult, of course, to deal with.
Let's see.
I
Isaac Tadé 04:34
You talked about your extended family. Were you able to see them throughout the
pandemic or no.
T
Tyra 04:41
Yeah, that was difficult, like my mother. No, because we weren't vaccinated, yet, yet, and
she has diabetes, she's older.
I
Isaac Tadé 04:53
Okay,
T
Tyra 04:53
um, my son and his fiance, they did get COVID. And we did lose his father-in-law to the
pandemic. Because their other household, their extended family, the whole house COVID
I
Isaac Tadé 05:11
Oh, I'm so sorry.
T
Tyra 05:12
So, yeah, that was hard, he spent 20 days ICU, nine of those days in a coma and he just
Tyra Thomas 2021
Page 5 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
didn't recover. So, you know, being able to stay connected and physically around people.
That was quite difficult because I'm a hugger. Yeah, and I just like you know I hug people
think I stole a few hugs along the way but I came out unscathed. So probably.
I
Isaac Tadé 05:13
Yeah.
T
Tyra 05:17
You know, it's just not the same but it's not. So I've got about 10,000 hugs saved up.
I
Isaac Tadé 05:49
Oh, good. Um, okay, in what ways has the pandemic changed your outlook on life. Do you
see things differently now?
T
Tyra 06:01
Huh, for myself that suffers from mental health, injuries. What I like to call it, okay. When
you say mental health illness, just means you're sick. Sounds like let's be around sick
people or disease, but if you say, mental health injury. It's like recovery.
I
Isaac Tadé 06:31
I like that,
T
Tyra 06:32
And to tell someone who just be it stay in the house, and isolate yourself is totally different
than what my therapist would say or my doctor was saying you know see people be
around people. And I learned to find ways to deal with that isolation. Staying connected,
calling people getting outside.
I
Isaac Tadé 07:11
Did you pick up any new hobbies during the pandemic COVID? Any new pets?
Tyra 07:19
Tyra Thomas 2021
Page 6 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
T
Tyra 07:19
You know, actually no, I actually was able to pick up more work. I'm a volunteer. I'm
disabled, but I found more ways to get around that by zooming, you know, I've learned
how to zoom, and then I got more familiar with the computer and I'm not that computer
literate. Okay, so I learned some stuff good with my computer and yeah
I
Isaac Tadé 07:46
so exciting.
T
Tyra 07:47
Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 07:48
I'm happy for you. Yeah. Okay, um, sounds like positive things, yes. In the summer of 2020,
the movement against systemic racism had Minneapolis, as its epicenter, with the murder
of George Floyd. Can you describe your experience living in Minneapolis/St. Paul, during
that time. So it's a heavy question.
T
Tyra 08:12
It is a heavy question because I was, I actually live an hour away from Minneapolis now
we're on a bus is maybe 15 minutes and, you know, I'm the, as soon as that happened, I
went straight to the site of Floyd's, George Floyd Square. And, did you feel,
I
Isaac Tadé 08:38
did you feel called to be there.
T
Tyra 08:40
Yes, because that corner. I was raised on that corner. 38th of Chicago is in Powderhorne
Park neighborhood
I
Isaac Tadé 08:49
Yes.
Tyra Thomas 2021
Page 7 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
T
Tyra 08:50
I know the store owner. Cup foods personally.
I
Isaac Tadé 08:53
Wow.
T
Tyra 08:54
And I also had conversation with George Floyd when he was working as a provider of
security at Salvation Army.
I
Isaac Tadé 09:00
So you knew him.
T
Tyra 09:01
Yes, not personal personally but we've had,
I
Isaac Tadé 09:05
but you had spoken with him
T
Tyra 09:06
Yes, we had interaction. And I just felt drawn to, I had to go. It was just too much
connection. And it was the second night, or the first, the night after that happened, and it
rained all night I was there from about 6pm until four o'clock in the morning, I could not
leave the space, I just felt so like, do something, Minnesota. Do something. And, I came in
the house sopping wet literally left a pole in my front door, I had to drop everything right
there, and I lost my phone that night because you know what, so to replace a phone. So,
but there was a lot of beautiful people out there just supporting each other and it just kind
of just struck awe-struck just kind of like, like pinch me. Are we all we're not all dreaming
right right, You know this, this really happened. Yeah. The Donald Williams is a good friend
of mine as well.
I
Isaac Tadé 10:22
Tyra Thomas 2021
Page 8 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Okay.
T
Tyra 10:23
And he, when I saw him on television. It was just like, how much more connection, can I
have to this to this situation that is affected so many of us, you know, it just was deep and
too. It was just like, everything was aligned, if you will, to shine a really big light on the
struggles of black and brown bodies
I
Isaac Tadé 11:02
Yes,
T
Tyra 11:03
and a system of racism, you know.
I
Isaac Tadé 11:10
In the past year. Do you see the city healing? Do you see improvements being made
against racism? Do you see communities coming together? Do you see racial justice being
done since the murder of George Floyd?
T
Tyra 11:30
I see communities coming together but I do not see racial justice being done. I see. There's
a word for it - we've just used the other day, kind of tokenism. Like the same old bullcrap.
Over and over and over again, band aids, but not real, like the police reform at the
Capitol so watered down. You know, just give them this and they'll just go away, you know.
We know we only make up, you know what, what is it 20% of 13% of population in the
states like people. Yeah, African American, folks. We have the highest racial disparity
speaks volume on what is happening, and so I quickly had to remind myself, yes we need
reform and policing, but that's not our only problem, and I felt distracted by that with all
the other areas like education and health and housing and street voices really helped me
to stay grounded on, like, all of those other things too. Yes, we must do all of these things.
And it's nice to have that community to help you do that,
I
Isaac Tadé 12:52
yes.
Tyra Thomas 2021
Page 9 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
T
Tyra 12:53
because you can't do by yourself, you probably know that. And then when we got through
Street Voices of Change got together, we realized we couldn't do it by ourselves, we had
to collaborate with others. And so yes, I definitely see community coming together, seeing
more just out in the street stuff going on, you know, and then a lot of that has to do with a
pandemic because we could meet inside
I
Isaac Tadé 13:17
people are tired of being indoors
T
Tyra 13:19
Right! you know so it means that if we were you can only have so many people in a
certain setting. And it's just healthier because the pandemic like said, I want to be outside,
and which is good because it drives community, they'll be walking by, like, what's
happening over here you know. And so, I think, like I said, I believe there's so much more
work to do.
I
Isaac Tadé 13:49
Yeah.
T
Tyra 13:51
As we were saying earlier about the three Beasts, the, you know, the COVID, George Floyd
the unrest that met in the street, and it was just like all happening at the same time, is just
amazing to now see hope. You know about it.
I
Isaac Tadé 14:17
What, what brings you hope personally.
T
Tyra 14:20
What brings me hope personally is that there's more community of colors that are really
important tables are really important, like for us to be over at the Capitol now on a Shelter
Tyra Thomas 2021
Page 10 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Task Force, yes, you know, it's a big deal. It's a big deal, lots and lots of lived experience.
What else brought me hope? That Department of Justice, actually is all over the country,
talking about police reform, but that they came to this city to like, Okay. Flipping desks
now. You know what, what, what are you doing, there's so many things about the police. I
didn't even know, like, like all the search and seizures they do, where they kill for people's
pockets and related to whatever crime they want to related it to. They don't have to be
accountable for that money and we're talking millions of dollars. No one audits them and
things like that accountability is happening and that gives me hope.
I
Isaac Tadé 15:24
Good. Yeah, and what I keep hearing is, you know, accountability is not the same thing as
justice. Right. Accountability is just holding someone to a certain standard. Mm hmm. And,
and justice is more about righting the wrongs that have been done historically. And so do
you see us moving towards justice, or we're still at the state of accountability.
T
Tyra 15:48
We're still in the state of accountability, yeah, Yeah, that that term for justice. I mean,
yeah, we got it for George, but the hunt, I mean Emmett Till is still looking for justice, and
the person, you know, and hundreds of others 100 that we haven't even named, you know,
and the ones we have. Oh my gosh, try remembering them all. You know, that never got a
court date, never got an investigation. So, yeah, and again justice all around housing
justice, education, justice, you know, equal opportunity and employment, things like that,
education, education, justice, yeah. So real thing. When I was growing up here, what they
taught us about... black folks was slavery that was kind of the end of it. Yeah, I heard
about Harriet Tubman Yeah I heard about Rosa Parks, but there were so many other
things. Yes, you know. And then I'm, just the way should I say, the literature that's used that
relative to my black body. You know, it's like, okay I went to the store bought four apples
and then I came back.. but when I grew up in a community of a food desert, there weren't
apples at that corner store. Until recently,
I
Isaac Tadé 17:17
where there might have been chips and candy bars yeah, yeah, this, um, you know. back,
back in the day when I was younger than the, the cold wet food stamps the papers
stamps. And then the EBT card came, and then all of a sudden, the conversation about
food deserts, they're like, Well, where are they spending their money? On the corner stores.
So now corner stores have to in order to be contracted to get use of EBT, or provide
healthier food so some things. Yes, but actually no folks need a grocery store, right. I mean
Tyra Thomas 2021
Page 11 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
that's, yeah. Okay, we're almost there, you know, kind of dragging along.
T
Tyra 17:56
Exactly, exactly and the prices are high in those places anyway, so.
I
Isaac Tadé 18:01
Okay. Well, I'm glad that you have had, you know, hope in your community, hope, hope
and seeing representation, and hope in you know, some of these, the mandates being
lifted and allowing people to interact again like we used to just to be regular human
beings, yes, you know, and I'm glad those things are lifting you forward.
T
Tyra 18:25
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Most things give me strength, like I said, meeting here in Central,
that gives me strength. Yes, I don't do nothing else in the week, this one day of the week
for me to come and do this is, it gives me strength for the next week
I
Isaac Tadé 18:43
that's incredible, get you through.
T
Tyra 18:44
Yeah. And so, and Street Voices, does that for each other. Time colleague and he's always
saying this is his place of peace, you know, just excited waiting on Thursday. That means a
lot.
I
Isaac Tadé 19:00
There's something special that's happening here. And I'm all about it. Okay, so the next
question is, is there anything else that you want people to know or remember let's say 30
years down the line, about your experience or from people's experiences, who may have
experienced homelessness during this period of time. What should people remember
about this period of time.
T
Tyra 19:22
In homelessness for myself, on and off homelessness for 20 years, with children without
Tyra Thomas 2021
Page 12 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
children. I had things that were I was dealing with in life. I didn't get diagnosed for mental
health, injuries, until I was almost 40. When I learned it, I realized I was actually having
those experiences as far back as I can remember when I was eight. And I used to walk
around Powderhorne Park, all the time by myself, depressed, not knowing these that's
what,
I
Isaac Tadé 19:48
that's what it was, was he didn't have a name for it.
T
Tyra 20:21
Yeah. And then I got older, And then I got into alcoholism. And so, those struggles are still
real. Right. But when I went to treatment for those things and I came out of all that. I was
still homeless. And then I was looking for housing, when that I didn't have enough income I
was now considered disabled. And then when I got all these ducks in a row and I
went...after all was said and done I realize it's not all my fault. And so that's what I say to
our homeless community, that if you're having those struggles, you know once you get all
those things taken care of, they're still a system of oppression. And it's not only your fault
that will work against you. Mm hmm. Wow. And so, to just keep standing up for yourself
keep fighting, keep standing up for yourself. Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 21:21
That just gave me goosebumps. Thank you for sharing. Yes, um, if you could ask people to
work on something or get involved in an issue, what would that be, Is there something
that people hearing this can help with. What issue should people be focusing on?
T
Tyra 22:00
Affordable housing, deeply affordable housing. And my dollar is just as important as your
million dollars, and it should have value. I, I don't have low income I have low wealth, it
means something to me it may not mean much to you, but it still has power, and it should
be usable should be walking around with the dollar like it's a wet food stamp, because
what I want to buy constants are costs that my dollar has value to. And so deeply
affordable housing is really where it's at. It's where it all starts, well everybody started at
home, right, and they went out into the world and maybe they went to college, maybe
they went got a trade and then they got their own place for deep affordable housing is
where it all starts. Yes.
Tyra Thomas 2021
Page 13 of 15
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
I
Isaac Tadé 23:04
Thank you, that's very wise, very wise. Um, so, have you met the nurses at Central in your
five years here, have you met the nurses.
T
Tyra 23:14
Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 23:16
Okay. And then the next question is there any feedback that you have for them, what is
working, What could we do better. Is there anything missing from the health common
center?
T
Tyra 23:31
I probably, you know I've been around nurse Katie for years now, and I didn't. I don't really
have anything, I feel like that's missing. At this point, um, all of the services that are
provided are, are really awesome services. And, and then even the Streetwork me and
nurse Katie have went to encampments together and or went to the same encampments
either route went separate at different times and so the services are there and the
outreaches there, you know, even outside the health commons, and I couldn't ask for
anything more to bless it, yes. Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 24:28
Wow. Well thank you, if you let it if you do think of anything, you know, please let us know.
Okay, well, is there anything else that you would like to share with us today. Before we
finish.
T
Tyra 24:51
If the..I'll say this, okay. I found it quite interesting what I heard. If the opposites of pros is
cons. Wouldn't the opposite of progress be congress? Oh snaps Okay, keep finding. Okay,
push through.
I
Isaac Tadé 25:17
You heard it here folks, that is. Well thank you, I think that concludes our interview for
Tyra Thomas 2021
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
today. That's the Mic drop. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your stories
and insights. Thank you for having me.
T
Tyra 25:33
Yes.
Tyra Thomas 2021
Page 15 of 15
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Show less
Stefan 2021: Part 1
Thu, 7/29 10:25AM
4:37
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, opinionated, grandfather, oral history project, chicago, understand, surrendered, streets,
east st louis, central, people, haywood, commons, lutheran, oral health, educated, spirit, folk,
sociology, shared
SPEAKERS
S... Show more
Stefan 2021: Part 1
Thu, 7/29 10:25AM
4:37
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, opinionated, grandfather, oral history project, chicago, understand, surrendered, streets,
east st louis, central, people, haywood, commons, lutheran, oral health, educated, spirit, folk,
sociology, shared
SPEAKERS
Stefan, Isaac Tadé
I
Isaac Tadé 00:03
Thank you for joining us today for this oral health, oral history project for the Augsburg
University Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tadé, I'm a student intern with
Augsburg Central Health Commons, could you please introduce yourself for the recording.
S
Stefan 00:17
Yes, my name is Mr Stefan Lesure.
I
Isaac Tadé 00:21
Thank you. And before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being
interviewed and having this interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made
available to the public.
S
Stefan 00:32
Absolutely. Thank you.
Isaac Tadé 00:34
Stefan 2021: Part 1
Page 1 of 3
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
I
Isaac Tadé 00:34
Excellent. All right, So can you tell me about where you grew up, and who you call family.
S
Stefan 00:39
I grew up in Chicago on the west side of Chicago. My family's from Kansas City, Missouri,
Sikeston Haywood city, East St Louis, St Louis. I grew up on the west side of Chicago. So
again like I said, it was never my intention to even be here in the state of Minnesota, let
alone be houseless I've never in my life been homeless because homelessness is emptiness
and I'm not empty at all.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:14
Yeah, so, okay, who do you call family than?
S
Stefan 01:18
I call what I call my family is what I call the old spirit. My grandfather's my uncle's my
Auntie's and even though they passed away that was always this thing my grandfather,
learned me about looking people and eye, he would not even talk to you. If you didn't
look him in the eye. You know you was not, he didn't know who you was and he didn't
communicate with you, he didn't know how to unless he looked you in the eyes and once
he looked you in the eyes, it was just like it was...It was just a totally different person that
you saw looking back at you. And I've kept that old spirit in my in my heart and in my
mind for years. I'm a writer. I had over 180,000 pages of history of a degree in sociology.
I'm also an educator in the streets with 54 years of lived experience and in the streets of
Chicago, and 12 in the streets of Minneapolis.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:24
Yes sir. So it sounds like you gravitate towards your elders towards people who have come
before you and who have shared their insights their experiences with you.
S
Stefan 02:34
Absolutely, it's called folk ways and folk tales, to be able to sit down with the young black
man and understand how he has to be educated, not how he wants to be educated, how
he has to be educated. The only true form of education for black man in this, it, it basically
is not existed in the world we live in today, and that's a shame. You know it's really a
Stefan 2021: Part 1
Page 2 of 3
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
shame.
I
Isaac Tadé 03:09
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Um, the next question would be can you tell me more
about how you got involved with Street Voices of Change.
S
Stefan 03:20
After being in state of Minnesota for three years, lost my job, lost my apartment. And I
understood that if I surrendered and became a part of the establishment that I can never
again hold my head up. So a friend of mine had brought me to the church when he was
the old church. And I said, and one day and it kinda was crazy, because at that time when
we first started out, everybody was opinionated so you really had to ask patience for
people telling you "man I've been at it for years," but over the course of five years, we've
learned one another, and we've learned the needs in certain cases, what causes those
needs to be and what causes the problem to be Street Voices, Central Lutheran, say, I
have since day one I considered it to be my sacred place of peace.
Stefan 2021: Part 1
Page 3 of 3
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Stefan 2021: Part 2
Thu, 7/29 10:30AM
55:25
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, call, streets, minnesota, ai, state, education, situation, pandemic, apartment, homeless,
community, young black man, world, stay, son, black, involved, understand, churches
SPEAKERS
Stefan, Isaac Tadé
S
Stefan 00:01
Central Lutheran is my sacred place of peace, five years, if I'm not if I'm in this state I'm in
Central Lutheran on Thursday morning there's no other place to I'd be. And that is a true
commitment to a situation that's growing in a different directions but mentally, people
like becoming to understand that the burden of proof is not on the state it's on the
individual, starting with the individual. If you in the state of Minnesota don't have a clear
cut agenda, you will become a foreign of its fast pace. And that fast paced is basically no
return on that.
I
Isaac Tadé 00:56
So that's how you got involved, you wanted to stay ahead of that pace,
S
Stefan 01:00
you decide on the natural educator. My father was the head of the Kansas City Missouri
literacy program and my first book that I wrote, stating that I wanted to be that same
individual because it was all natural for me. I'm the only black man in American history, to
ever be called by two presidents to ever create a program called Community
Beautification that would have closed down to Illinois state prisons, until the police
department figured out that they didn't want me involved because they had a different
agenda. Under the rules of displacement. Now it's, you know, I'm here today and I speak
Stefan 2021: Part 2
Page 1 of 21
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
to David Hewitt about this every day and every week and every chance I get about
people. There's no way possible that you can uproot 5 million black folks who stay in the
country, and 5 million other foreigners who come into the country, get an apartment, and
just leave them to hang in a system that's what I call tedious and meticulous, a process of
dehumanization that has no return on punishing. Thank you.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:29
Thank you for sharing that. Thank you. So what can you tell me about life before the
pandemic, and what is different for you now, because a COVID-19?
S
Stefan 02:42
Before the pandemic, that was, that was a lot of hope, a lot of trust a lot of faith building
we went from four meetings a week back down to none, and then we opened up with 10
people. And the saddest part about it is to see that the African American community,
basically had nowhere else to turn, but to those churches who would open their doors in
the homeless community because I don't care what you say man, if it wasn't for Katie and
them and the nurses, nurses were the first persons who got me a bed when I was having, I
had to have surgery. They got me into an apartment, it wasn't the case manager it was
the homeless nurse. You know, and ever since I put back whenever I can, and brought a
greater understanding to what I consider to be a housing situation, and a situation of
people who, Minnesota is a, is a very dangerous state. I'll say that because it affords you,
and allows you to be comfortable, when you really shouldn't be comfortable. It allows you
to become content, and you really shouldn't be content. In that sense for a young, an
uneducated black man that's a dangerous, dangerous environment to be in. And I've
watched this situation for 12 years just grow and grow and grow. Nobody has one time
and for the last five years I beat education all the way from Street Voices to Change to
the capital. There's no way around it, you know, you can you can bow you can you can
build a million houses right here right now. And they'll tear them down in two days,
because they're not educated. And they have this hate in their heart because they're in
the streets at night, and nobody understands that. You think because you gave him an
apartment, that doesn't fulfill the void that he hasn't had any love and compassion,
respect and any honor. That's what's important to me. So I continue to do what I do I get
in the streets every day, five days a week, and communicate with people. I've put a few
young kids in college, and they've come through and it was like, bro, I've got a few kids
back in the house with their momma. Back letting them know man, the power of surrender,
let them go home with some flowers, wash the dishes and take out the garbage, and that
you ain't going to smoke in the house. That's all she asks! That's a roof over your head,
until you can do better. And it seems to be that it's Minnesota's is just conflict orientated.
Stefan 2021: Part 2
Page 2 of 21
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
It's like a step by step process. Once you get St. Olaf card, you're considered non existent.
You know, they don't respect or honor education, intelligence, or any of that. It's all about
getting $1 immediately. And that's the most dangerous setup for young parents, for
children for your community, because these are the things that are transferred, whether
we want them to be or not we can have the best intentions for our children. But if you
have them among toxic waste, nine times out of 10. It will suffer from it.
I
Isaac Tadé 06:55
And is that what you see manifest during the pandemic?
S
Stefan 06:59
Pandemic was most more frightening than that, it created a lot of withdrawals, created a
lot of isolation. It created a lot of separation with family. Fear is the most powerful tool in
the state of Minnesota. I'm afraid that I'm gonna lose something that I really don't have
anyway. You have to have something to lose. You ain't got something... Right, you don't
have nothing. And that's what homelessness is, that's what that statement is homeless.
Homelessness is simply means you void of any substance. I'm full of life.
I
Isaac Tadé 07:52
right
S
Stefan 07:53
full of life I seek the good and all things, no matter what.
I
Isaac Tadé 07:57
And that's, and that's why through the pandemic. Well, even before pre pandemic, you've
made it a mission to fulfill though that hierarchy of needs right first of all, first of all you
need clothing, water, shelter, and then after that, you know those things you can start to
feel those social needs, and an education and that's what you've brought to the table.
S
Stefan 08:20
It's a real strange situation to see our young black men and women's who are only
motivated by music and motivated by material things. And everybody becomes a victim,
under those circumstances, what do you believe it or not. Strangest thing I've ever seen in
Stefan 2021: Part 2
Page 3 of 21
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
the state of Minnesota as a young gentleman who had been homeless. We've been in the
streets begging. finally got a Social Security finally got his apartment. And he took these
people home because he lived with him in the street. Four days after he had this
apartment, they tore the apartment up, got him kicked out. And he's still homeless to this
day. And that just let me know that there's no boundaries. And if you deal with people who
don't have boundaries, they have some problem. That's why it's so important that I have
rules. Rules I have laws I have aspirations, that must be, not just for the sake of me, but for
the sake of our community of what's left of our community. It's, I don't even know how to
say it anymore. My grandfather used to tell me that "true beauty never shrinks nor does it
wear thin. But the truth of that has to be in your spirit may not be the next man spirit has
to be in yours." In order for you to see clear go forward. And that's been the joy of being
here, to be able to call pastor Melissa and say hey you know I aint feeling this one. And
she would sit down and actually tell you, "me neither. But here's what you have to do, not
what you can do, not what you want to do, what you have to do in order to get back to
what you..."
I
Isaac Tadé 10:50
Your, your best self.
S
Stefan 10:52
Thank you. That's what I've, that's the approach I've taken. Never once considered myself
homelessness. The strangest thing in the world when I was staying at the Salvation Army, I
have what you call the internal alarm clock. I go to bed at nine o'clock but I'm up at 3:30.
Doesn't give if I'm drunk or what, I'm up by 330. And I got up every morning and I cleaned
the two washrooms. Cleaning the dining room. A after a year and a half into this. I was
told that "we don't want to going, we don't want you cleaning up the washroom, makes
our employees look bad." Well you crazy, the employee look bad because the washroom
looks bad! That's why I'm cleaning.
I
Isaac Tadé 11:43
and that's the way you feel you can contribute
S
Stefan 11:44
Ain't a doubt about it. But the beauty of that is, everybody didn't learn from those few who
did learn from it, when they got the apartments they understood the value of keeping
things cleanly, keeping your associates in the streets, and giving yourself at least 30 days
Stefan 2021: Part 2
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
to acclimate to your own room. I get to see feedback every day in the streets, there's, I
don't think there's 20 people that walk downtown, on a day to day basis that I've ever
met, before seen before, I've spoken to all the ID, all the police downtown all the security
downtown. And nobody, and this is shame, this is the shameful part. Nobody wants to get
involved. I keep hearing that same old, same old song. They don't care.
I
Isaac Tadé 12:49
who's they?
S
Stefan 12:50
the people who you see as different from who you are because you work a job because
you got an apartment and who are in the streets, sit on corners who drink or smoke, or
steal. But what we fail to realize is that was transferred to them they were born into that.
I
Isaac Tadé 13:12
They're born into that mentality raised in it
S
Stefan 13:14
Indeed! I mean yo mama smoke crack she got 45 guys coming in and out the back door.
Well, let's keep it real, this, this frustrates a young black man, and he becomes so abusive
behind that because he become gaurded, he don't want to tell nobody that he was broken
by what he seen from his mother. So he treats every woman like she's broke. And that's,
that's the part that we have to get out of the only way we can get out of it (*knocks on
table), "Hey are you doing?" You have to see something different, in order to know
somethings different. You have to be consistent power with that. That's why Street Voices
says, we decided that we'll wait till the meetings over when we have a debrief and then
you can say what you like. But in during these meeting, These are rules.
I
Isaac Tadé 14:06
These are the rules you abide by them.
S
Stefan 14:09
And once you learn that it becomes a valuable situation, then that plays a part in your life
you'll see yourself being separated from all the confusion. Another thing about Minnesota.
Stefan 2021: Part 2
Page 5 of 21
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
This is the only group of people in the whole state that's ever mentioned, a power of
education, and never asked the question, that's why David Hewitt kept coming back. Why
can you go without it? If your son is in steet with a third grade education, his homie got a
fifth grade education, homie got a second grade education. Another guy never been in
school. What do you think's going to come out of that? That's a disaster waiting to
happen.
I
Isaac Tadé 15:00
Nothing much nothing good Because we went to the challenge game, we enter the rap
music that elevates what you think how you feel, our children that become images that
they follow. They see you do some, they can't let you out, so they overdo it, and then
overdo until somebody else gets hurt to the process. And they become susceptible, like
second nature. That's that conflict is in our communities. It's not education, not further
progress. You got neighbors who don't even speak to each other. That's what Street Voices
wants to get to the point of being able to actually sit you down and show you the
difference between one mental mindset and the other mental mindset. The streets make
you guarded. You ain't got to do nothing, only see it one time, and when you see it again...
It might be too late.
S
Stefan 16:05
So you need to get involved, overreact and put yourself in a bad situation is
acknowledging it running away from it. This is what I don't separate. We young black men
don't have the power to courage. Don't do the influences in the streets today, under the
drugs that's in the streets today. When you have 13 year old boy telling you he got to have
his medicine, you tripping your own ride bruh. What you want to do about your medicine
when you get locked up, because it's coming. You keep going in these people's stores, it's
coming. And when it comes, you should be grateful that it came like that. And that this
often hurts, and we don't, but they don't even fear that no more. You know that's a damn
shame, they don't even think scared to die. Living in world is nothing no way, but it's not
that. It's that we, it is something that I was deeply thankful for. It's always come back to
the part you play before you can see and accept what they did, know why you got
involved, yeah. Know why you got involved, right, and once you know that, there's no need
to get mad, because you see the part that you play. And that should be a growth process.
I have a friend who I had called and asked her that question every night. "What have you
learned today, from all of that's been learned you?" Keeping a positive outlook is a must in
keeping sanity in this homeless community, because you see some things that just
mindblowing. totally mindblowing. Man got mad at the police took off all his cleaning, "so
you want to shake me now?" he got on the police guy. I mean this is, where do you go from
Stefan 2021: Part 2
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
that? so you use that as a measuring rod? you can't, you can't use a measuring rod, unless
you communicate. Forget what I think, forget what they say. And here's another thing
that's the most dangerous thing about Minnesota. They use mental injuries and mental
health issues as a problem, and it is come up, murder, murder and murder. Because he
had been mental health issues. My thinking is, you acknowledged the fact that he had
mental health issues, you bag up to get those who are qualified to deal with that situation,
and they don't do that. They won't do that,
I
Isaac Tadé 16:38
treat it as a health crisis rather than
S
Stefan 19:14
okay, perfect example when they get to the capitol of the day when the senator was
having a meeting, the lady drove up to Capitol step, drove around, drank smoke right
there in front of police around it. And then they said well it's a mental health crisis and the
brother said "bruh if it had been a black man, you would have drug him out of the car,
right there on the spot. You put her in the car with no handcufs come on, didn't do any of
that"
I
Isaac Tadé 19:42
right.
S
Stefan 19:43
These rules don't apply to certain people in the state. And if I will make a difference in I'm
gonna have to be extraordinary patient,
I
Isaac Tadé 19:56
yes sir.
S
Stefan 19:58
extraordinarily humble, because I've been had people call me a group of bitches and
howlers and I had never been none of that. Where I come from we didn't even allow that.
But understanding that if I allow you to pull me off my square and get into what you went
to, then I'm the damn fool. Because would you say it didn't leave a scratch or mark on me.
Stefan 2021: Part 2
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Okay, that's how you feel, I can't change that.
I
Isaac Tadé 20:31
But you choosing to step low at that level, it's your choice.
S
Stefan 20:35
Right. The choices you make, you have to be conscious of that because you live in in this
baby so fast paced, you wouldn't be. It is demonic to see a 12 year old girl, trying to trick a
grown man out of some money. And it's, it's the demonic, but it is what it is. If, if I don't get
involved then, where else do I go? You get involved on and changing it. Would you accept
it and become a part of it? You close your eyes on it, you are a part of it.
I
Isaac Tadé 21:16
Yes sir, yes sir.
S
Stefan 21:20
I put a request slip in your box that I have a paper 18 pages long, it's called "A Condensed
Product" of 180,000 pages is called critical thinking, writing means stop exchange
abruptly like abruptly. But these topics are critical topics. Who are you? Who will you
allow yourself to become? What's learned behavior? How culturally conscious are you?
What part do you play? And a lot of us don't even think along those lines no more. When
the last time you read a book?
I
Isaac Tadé 22:07
Personally me?
S
Stefan 22:07
No, I'm saying, the last time you see, you have a few, and here's the sad part. Those who
do read in the homeless community, they read out of isolation. They don't read to better
hands, better, they read out of isolation, and they don't share nothing that they read.
"None of your business that you (*grumbles)..." you know, because it's their entertaiment.
It's not something that should be spread around.
Stefan 2021: Part 2
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
I
Isaac Tadé 22:38
Right.
S
Stefan 22:39
Our churches have failed in a lot of ways because African American churches because
they like to do things their own way, it's about what God said, it's not about walking the
walk is about your perception of what this book says istead of doing the basic things,
which is allowing the child, be the child to become the adolescent to become the young
adult and understanding these processes, and understanding that, especially not black
schools. When I growed up we had big kids we after school programs, there was none of
that. So, where do you son go after school? If your son, going to school with two phones
and a speaker, you think you're going to learn? You can't be your son's friend. You got to
be his momma. You know, "my baby. No baby." That aint no baby. That man, six foot 2. 19
years old he aint no kid. But you still buying him $150 Gym shoe. And when you can't buy
them, he got no job, no skills where you're going? In street. And that's what they do. 12, 13
years old. Rob and car jacking, with the first time something happens to do so that you
know is in the street, "My baby. My baby." Ma'am your baby is not your baby, quit playin
with yourself. You need to grow up.
I
Isaac Tadé 24:26
It's about being honest with the situation,
S
Stefan 24:29
No doubt about it. When I was growing, if I bought anybody home, my mama went up to
her like "Yo, yo, who your mama, where you live at? Matter of fact wait on the porch till I
call. That's how crazy my mama was.
I
Isaac Tadé 24:45
actually to verify.
S
Stefan 24:49
Well you know your son over here? And you'll see come. So we're with...if I brought you
home, and my mamma didn't know your mamma? If I gotta ass whooping, you gotta have
a an ass whooping, guarantee. That don't happen no more. "Don't mess with my son." So
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we have a lot of things to grow up to. But the one thing I really want to state is there's
been what you call a Hocus Pocus, the state of Minnesota. 12 years you 46,000 new
housing. Not 1% is low income. No more than 1%. That 1% comes in the suburbs, not in
the inner city, so they can take you and throw you out in Coon Rapids, Robbinsdale and
Hopkins, but these are 2, 3, 4, 5 different people. It's not a community of people, they don't
want to, I don't want that to happen anymore. The only communities is what you call a
middle class community, which is a suburb. And Minneapolis has a golden opportunity.
No, the African Americans in Minneapolis have a golden opportunity but there's no way
you can bring these people together, because everybody has their own agenda.
Everybody, the churches, all the black churches have different agendas, going in different
directions. All the programs, who get three, $400,000 a year are going in different
directions, instead of restoring the arms a unity, come together so first goal is "let's build
the building with the apartments, and we can have the programs on display, right here,
but it has to be one situation." Your program doesn't have to change. The only thing
changes is your trust and respect for the people that you deal with. And that's what we,
for some reason we can't seem to bring that together.
I
Isaac Tadé 27:22
What we lack is some unity. And I think I saw that a lot during the pandemic too, just with
leadership across the state across the country, across the world. You know
S
Stefan 27:33
There was you no... specially the statements so there was no black unity shown there was
no groups of black people gathered around giving out information, doing any of that. It
was all isolated incident. Churchs were just was trying to hold on to its members. Right,
doing all of these solicitations and all of that because you couldn't be in church, right, but
it was not a group of people a constituency to say "man as a collective, let's get back out
here, and let's reunite our communities." that will be the easiest thing in the world, only
two churches and your community. Mean to tell me y'all can't put together one project? I
mean to actually... black owned businessman won't even do business for black, black
owned landlords won't even rent to black men. So I mean this is an up hilll struggle, and
I'm just grateful that I have a conscious mind. To continue forward.
I
Isaac Tadé 28:34
It's a state of mind. Yes sir
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S
Stefan 28:41
Not being on never been, never will be homeless. no doubt about it. Yes sir. Yes, I need
some help. I aint affraid of that. Aint no getting frustrated, throwing a brick through a
window, none of that. You will ask for what you want, and if they don't provide? Patients.
Step two, step three, and step four. It's always gonna be a step left though, don't quit,
always, always, you can't throw your hands up.
I
Isaac Tadé 29:22
Speaking of, sorry to interrupt you here. Speaking of that mentality. What has brought you
home through this last year? You talking about putting one foot in front of the other what
helps you to do that.
S
Stefan 29:37
The people that I speak to every day in the streets. The mothers who've seen me, I'm glad
to talk my son, you know, your inspiration in the streets you know only OG out here, really
talks with some good sense. That means a lot because we're in a time and age where the
communication game is not about communication is about texting, chat rooms you know
hollar back. It's pretend forms, it's always about ducking everybody in the street. It's hard
to have a conversation with somebody on the phone you talk to personal phone, he'll text
your back "No, I don't feel like that." And that gives you nothing. That gives you no
inspiration I come from a family of people from my great grandfather to my father's
uncles when you have to sit down, you actually look these people in the eye. You want
some help, you have to actually communicate with these people. Right? There was never
no aggressive, nothing. This is what you want. This is what you get.
I
Isaac Tadé 30:58
And so for you it's been the communicate through this last year. Yes sir, especially in such
like an isolating time.
S
Stefan 31:07
Right. That was, that was a time when I think was back in February March when this first
pandemic first came down. It was hard to even communicate with people ain't nobody,
want to "back up"
Isaac Tadé 31:23
Stefan 2021: Part 2
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I
Isaac Tadé 31:23
6 feet
S
Stefan 31:23
Yeah, it was it was it was a panic situation, especially on the buses. You know how many
911 calls Metro transit had right in the state of Minnesota, about you not being, "you got to
have your mask on, or get off the bus." The state is. I'm not going to say the state. The
African American communities throughout inner Minneapolis has basically become afraid
of one another. What I mean by that is that if you have a neighbor that doesn't trust you,
he doesn't respect you because he feels like you are not trustworthy for whatever reasons,
that just keeps going down the line and up the block, then your community is following.
Because your eyes is not on the community, it's on your neighbor.
I
Isaac Tadé 32:02
right.
S
Stefan 32:17
We have to get away from that, learn how to trust again we have to learn how to respect.
And that's not the easy thing, you know this sounds easy as I'm saying it's not easy to put
into play, right, especially for those kids who really never had no compassion on spending
quality time. They mama riding them around in the stroller smoking weed with them, them
in a store stealing. You know, I don't know if African Americans understand it, that's the
greatest gift we have is our ability to adjust, adapt, but if you're not afforded the
opportunity to know what you're adjusting to and what you adapted to. If you just go on
along to something that's been second nature in your life for the last 10 years of your life,
this why you can't do, how you will afford a child? He set the garage on fire. But you
bought him the videos, you you spoiled him, in the end you told him no. That's how you
got to that point. You know he was doing good for five or 10 years. Buying him shoes. Now
you don't have a job, money funny. You can't do nothing for him. And you can even
communicate with it.
I
Isaac Tadé 34:06
So my next question was going to be about. If people could, if you could ask people to
work on something or get involved in an issue, what would that be, and it already. Sounds
like you've gotten into that,
Stefan 2021: Part 2
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S
Stefan 34:21
yes, it will be education is the most frightening thing about young African American in the
state of Minnesota. They have zero history. Zero history of African Americans. I was trying
to explain 1964. They called it a riot. Black Panthers marched on the White House for
equality in jobs that summer. And they said, riot. Here, when they went to the Capitol, you
knocked the windows out you're went in and killed people. You call that an insurrection.
And right after 1964 you call it all out, you said we were militant. That's, militant means
that you're dangerous.
I
Isaac Tadé 35:25
Yes sir,
S
Stefan 35:25
Insurrection means that it's just organize thing that went wrong. but that's not what
happened. I saw what happened, and it's the first time in my life. Fifty-nine years later, I
got a chance to see what you call the proud boys, and how y'all truly operate.
I
Isaac Tadé 35:45
Right.
S
Stefan 35:46
And I still have a question. If you hadn't been authorization to be here, there was no way
in the world you could have drilled all the machines up there to climb up the stairs. No
way. So you was authorized. It just didn't turn out right. But that's a lesson for us, as young
black men, to know the difference of the treatments that come about because of white
privilege,
I
Isaac Tadé 36:17
and that's about knowing that history.
S
Stefan 36:21
I mean, Minnesota is a beautiful state. I love to see all colors of people come together.
Yeah, but that's the best surface level. Right, right, behind the scenes and there is some
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demonic people.
I
Isaac Tadé 36:38
Just because you have diversity doesn't mean that you have cooperation, you can have
tolerance. But that's not on the same level as cooperation, integration,
S
Stefan 36:50
and that's the new. That's the new form of education that they put towards black people.
Let me give you another example, every black man in the country, not just in the state of
Minnesota, knows that the state is what you call a free enterprise. So you can get your
issue on any corner that you want in this state. And that's their focus. They're not realizing
what comes behind the scenes. There's no structure, no order. Then there's chaos. And we
have a word about that. My fear for Minnesota is that in the next three years if it doesn't
change, it will be the most violent state in this country. No, it will be the most violent state
in the country to north, south, northeast Minneapolis, basically a daycare center, where
you have all these 250 groups of people that have 250 different ideas. They're going to
one in 250 directions, they get the money, like the father program project. You get $10
milion dollars, 90 days later you can't give a guy a bus card you can't buy him shoes when
you go get a job. Not a program is working.
I
Isaac Tadé 38:14
Nope
S
Stefan 38:15
you have an 85,000 year executive 100,000 executive. But none of this money is come to
the table. maybe 10% out of $10 million, hit the street, and the rest was in payroll property.
But property that has nothing to do with rehabilitating a mind. You know when you find a
father who's willing to get back to being a father, now that a hell of a thing. When you
kind of lose yourself and think you can become a great hustler in the world, you realized
when you go to jail and you realize that sitting for me it was a night isn't worth it. So I got
to get back to doing what I'm doing. And once you get back there, the help that they say
is there, there's not. It's not that. You get up yourself stuck out there trying to raise three
boys, is not a joke. Especially you ain't got no job. It's not a joke, right, you ain't got no
skills. You don't think you have is the learned behavior that you've learned in the streets.
Let's not a provider, that's a death wish. Yeah, and that's why it's so important that we
reiterate, education, history, not on the level of being man, back to what I see, what have I
Stefan 2021: Part 2
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learned today, all that. That's a constant evaluation of everyday assessed reflection.
Thank you. If you lose one day. Don't be ashamed, not
I
Isaac Tadé 40:14
to put your pride aside,
S
Stefan 40:19
have pride? I don't play with that, that's a dangerous thing. No, not in these streets. And
then it's, they can't let go. I mean you can get into the smallest thing but you can't let go.
I
Isaac Tadé 40:38
I've seen it. It's real. I'm gonna just ask you a few more questions, geared for towards
health, the bottom there. What would you say that you need for health, as you define it,
what's helped for you and what you need to have good health?
S
Stefan 40:56
good health? I need to be able to get to the store do my own shopping, cooking, my own
create my own exercise program. through various question asking various situations. We'll
start with, with mental health. you aint thinking right, if you ain't feeling good mentally.
nine times out of 10, you wont feel good, spiritually, feel physically. And that's the way I
look at it, I have to, I mean there's no such thing is not able. It's no such thing as bad. And
if you feel like that, maybe you need to sit down and re evaluate the situation, because
there's no such thing as that. We got here we can get back. I believe that and if I didn't
believe that I wouldn't be out in the streets every day trying to convey that message with
other people. I have this...It's not a poem, its a statement, says "true gratitude is that which
emanates within us and pushes it's way out of us to shine in full view." And in doing that,
it's a genuis quality that you build upon on the day to day basis. I don't want to make it
seem like this is crazy, crazy, cause it's not. You have to really do some growing up, really
really growing up to actually get past this situation to not be frustrated not just want to
surrendered. And I mean it seriously, man, wake up in the shelter you ain't got no shoes,
man you got shoes. You know I'm saying you come in the washroom and you, and you
hang your shirt up to wash up, that man come in, take your shirt and put it on infront of
you. You have a choice here. You either will get fustrated till you come about my shirt,
which will possibly be a problem because you got an issue. So now I got to go to man, to
say Man, look man, but man, just pick the shirt, and I ain't going to trip. I just need
overshare to like get to target man, you have to you have to you have to be willing to
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make those sacrifices. If you're not, you'll find yourself in all kinds of conflicts and so
I
Isaac Tadé 44:01
yes sir,
S
Stefan 44:03
We have to have, not only do you have to want something, you have to understand what
it takes to get there. And sometimes it's not pleasant it is not easy.
I
Isaac Tadé 44:15
Thank you. Yes, thank you for sharing that. Um, the next question is, have you met the
nurses at Central. And then, or, you know, Central Health Commons. Is there any
feedback that you have for them.
S
Stefan 44:30
Oh wow. Yes, I've met the nurses at Central. We went out on a few runs to the homeless
encampments. We even found ourselves in a curious situation. And it turned out to be a
truly education situation and thanking Katie for that, I had to tip my hat for that. And I've
also had to deal with the nurses here at Central Lutheran in personal situations. Be able
to start to my blood pressure, and that got so high that I'm actually scared to go to that
hospital. I mean which still don't seem like it makes good sense but I refuse to leave here
too! so it all turned out to be in the best interest because after she did what she did, I had
to actually go to the hospital. And if she hadn't have, my thing is that if I hadn't been here.
That's my concern if I hadn't been here, then what may have happened if I was in the
streets? Somebody might have left me on the bench. "Oh he drunk. He high. See his eyes."
Maybe maybe got kidney problems, maybe
I
Isaac Tadé 45:56
could be a number of thing
S
Stefan 45:58
there's a number of things but for you to just look at me and measure me. You don't know.
So that's what I'm aiming to really try and educate us and bring this back to our point
where we can transfer. Since displacement. There's been nothing. We're able to transfer to
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our childrens. Our homes are gone, our communities are going. We become frustrated at
all the wrong things so we become frustrated and want to know.
I
Isaac Tadé 46:39
Take your time.
S
Stefan 46:44
It would be the simplest thing in the world, I have a program I really like to run across the
North Minneapolis is just a six blocks program a piece where you people have all these
homes and you're not willing to put in 20, 30 dollars a month, buy these properties in your
community. And whatever you use for daycare center after school programs peace
houses...But in order to do that you have to bring interest to the community. And that's
hard. That's the saddest part about North Minneapolis, South Minneapolis is halfway
there. North Minneapolis is like...frightening to where you can't trust neighborhood that
you live next to 20 years You know,
I
Isaac Tadé 47:45
take your time. You want me to get you a water?
S
Stefan 48:01
I'm not a resident, let's say, a willing resident of Minneapolis. But since I'm here. This is like
desire to understand the true needs of what has to be done not what I want to do. What
has to be done for us to be able to pass that along. I want to give you a copy of this
excerpt to this book that I wrote. It's called The Ghetto That Lived in my Head,
I
Isaac Tadé 48:39
That'd be incredible. Thank you.
S
Stefan 48:40
Yes. The Augsburg college right over here,man.
I
Isaac Tadé 48:47
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Yes sir,
S
Stefan 48:47
but you will be going to stay in Minnesota?
I
Isaac Tadé 48:49
yes sir.
S
Stefan 48:50
Leave you information with Pastor Melissa.
I
Isaac Tadé 48:53
Thank you,
S
Stefan 48:53
so I'd get a copy of this. It's the education that 90% of African men...It's not in the schools,
language itself is kind of frightening because it's not these terms not used anymore. It's
simply important education is no longer important to most inner city kids, you have your
young black man whose family's fortunate enough to grow up in a suburb, you might get
a chance to play baseball. Maybe the chance to play professional basketball. Might even
get the chance to play hockey.
I
Isaac Tadé 49:49
Right.
S
Stefan 49:52
In the Northside Southside? It's not happening. Because they're going to pull you down. I
mean to see a young black man who spoke. I'll give you a perfect example, friend of mine,
stays on Broadway. Son got drafted to the NBA, he was shot in the back of the head here
on Lyndale Park, out of Walgreens. And guess who did it? you wouldn't believe
Isaac Tadé 50:21
Stefan 2021: Part 2
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I
Isaac Tadé 50:21
Somebody real close.
S
Stefan 50:23
His best friend. That is the saddest shit. To struggle to achieve that. Somebody just wiped
it out, like it don't mean nothing. that's what, that's where we at. And that's why I'm
committed to making a difference. You don't have the finances, you don't have the actual
people but you do have the heart, and your courage. So we sit like pastor Melissa say,
watch your eyes, not yet, we aint got time yet. You get enough people around you, and
this is a slow process. Yes, to get people like David Hewett involved, Trish Stature involved
and other politicians involved, then you can throw him in jail something put something
together. I've been, hawking David for the last two years about that, education,
education, education, Youth Link won't get involved anymore. Then they call people over
to their office, you follow this. When you get when you get through leaving, they give you
12 tokens. Now you tell me what youth is not showing up for 12 tokens you bought him a
blunt. You bought him a bag and a blunt.
I
Isaac Tadé 52:12
right,
S
Stefan 52:13
well let's keep it real. You asked him to show up and sign a few papers, so you can get the
next dollar, but they're not pushing back anything. They're just showing up for the tokens.
You're not asking you to sign these two papers how you still ain't got no house still ain't
got no education. And when we went to Youth Link, in terms of what you're not shelters
are 24 hours now. How many people can you think you could get signed up for GED
program? College program, a trade school? And they didn't even get involved! Because
it's too complex. Why would we have to do that, we just get them to sign this, they want
to do something they can do it on their own. people providng them the 12 tokens. and are
you crazy? because that's how it go. Yeah, that's true. Okay.
I
Isaac Tadé 53:12
Yes, thank you for sharing all that. Very very insightful. Um, do you have any feedback for
health commons, is there anything that we could be doing better. Is there anything that's
missing from health commons?
Stefan 2021: Part 2
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S
Stefan 53:28
Oh, absolutely not. No. Okay, let's see. As I said, if it wasn't for the homeless, before, not
even here in central Lutheran I'm talking about the Dignity Center and other places, who
went out on a limb for me, I wouldn't have been able to have a place to stay during my
surgery in my healing process. If it wasn't for homeless kind soulsm and Katie's been 1000
ever since.
I
Isaac Tadé 54:00
Yeah, yeah. Wow, gratefulness grateful. That's incredible. I'm so happy that they were
there for you
S
Stefan 54:08
yes indeed You happy? i was grateful.
I
Isaac Tadé 54:11
That's right. Well I think that concludes our interview for today. Thank you for so much for
taking the time to share, share your story, your insight your words of advice. Your thoughts
S
Stefan 54:24
I'll get that for you and Katie. The first one is Hidden In Plain Sight. Okay. You have to kind
of read paragraph by paragraph, cause like I say it's critical thinking
I
Isaac Tadé 54:39
dig it
S
Stefan 54:40
and abrupt writing. The writing change but the mental mind has to stay focused on the
subject as a whole. Each one of those subjects changed. So, you will have to keep reading
then making the subject matter. I would really like to do what I call the speaking thing to
where as though, you can actually expound on a topic. As you, as you read that. But I can't
seem to find that platform. You found one.
Isaac Tadé 55:21
Stefan 2021: Part 2
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I
Isaac Tadé 55:21
That's fine. Thank you very much.
Stefan 2021: Part 2
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Show less
Mercedes 2021
Fri, 7/30 11:01AM
24:25
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
life, minneapolis, augsburg, happened, epidemic, live, feel, women, housing, mercedes, people,
katie, started, experienced, sick, riots, work, shelter, care, pray
SPEAKERS
Mercedes Ramsey, Kathleen Clark
Kathleen Clark 00:00
All r... Show more
Mercedes 2021
Fri, 7/30 11:01AM
24:25
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
life, minneapolis, augsburg, happened, epidemic, live, feel, women, housing, mercedes, people,
katie, started, experienced, sick, riots, work, shelter, care, pray
SPEAKERS
Mercedes Ramsey, Kathleen Clark
Kathleen Clark 00:00
All right. So thank you for joining us today for this oral history project at Augsburg
University's Health Commons. My name is Katie Clark, and I'm a professor of Nursing at
Augsburg and the executive director of the Health Commons. Can you please introduce
yourself for the recording?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 00:20
My name is Mercedes Ramsey.
Kathleen Clark 00:24
And before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed,
and that having that interviewed stored at Augsburg University, which will be made
available to the public.
M
Mercedes Ramsey 00:35
okay.
Mercedes 2021
Page 1 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Kathleen Clark 00:37
All right. So can you just tell me a little bit about yourself and who you called family and
maybe how you ended up in Minneapolis?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 00:47
Okay. Like I said, Mercedes Ramsey. I've been in Minneapolis off and on since 1983. A little
bit about myself, going on 11 years sobriety for alcohol, marijuana, dealing with kidney
disease and other health problems. What else? I've also like I said, been, went through the
homeless situation from 99 to 2007. 2007 I was selected, along with a bunch of other
women through Simpson's Womens' housing program that they started and got affiliated
with getting into my own apartment. I got into a couple apartments, but I wasn't feeling
safe. So my housing advocate helped me get into the Continental and I had been there
for nine years. During the nine years, I've faced different situations. I also done stuff for
Ayaan as far as being part of Resident Planning Committee, went to neighbor works,
conferences. Three of them went to Miami, Orlando and Cincinnati. We did a big ol
barbecue. What else? I also did different other things, did women's group before the
epidemic start here at Central Lutheran. Within that group, we did bingo, watch movies,
did some crafts. Hopefully, when this epidemic's all over, we can go back to doing that
again. What else?
Kathleen Clark 03:16
Um, why was the womens' group started?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 03:21
Why? I think is because we had Street Voices of Change. And then there's other women
asking, asking about it because they had done it was the 90s or early 2000. What before
the construction started here at the church? And then there was two ladies from Augsburg
that was doing it. And they were doing different things within the group. Something that
happened and me and another lady that participated. We did the started started it up. So,
but yeah.
Kathleen Clark 04:15
How did you get involved with Street Voices?
Mercedes 2021
Page 2 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
M
Mercedes Ramsey 04:18
How'd I get involved? What they're going in their fifth year? Well, when they started,
people was saying, "hey, if you come to the scoop on Thursday mornings, they have a big
breakfast. And now after that you you'll get a bus card." And as I like "really?!"so I start
coming to that, not just for the breakfast to the bus card but some of the some of the
sessions we were doing the talks were interested in me how they can get about getting
changes and Salvation Army at their shelter, and now, four, five years later, they're getting
it fixed so, which is good. It took some time, but it got done. What else? And then just
come in for the different topics and people met in different city officials in that. Yeah.
Kathleen Clark 05:30
That's great. So what did life look like for you, before the pandemic, and what is different
for you, because of COVID-19?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 05:41
Well, before the epidemic, I was coming here doing different groups in that I was going to
Westminister for their, their senior drop in center. I go to St. Olaf for their Tuesday club for
women. But it changed to where people could come. What else, and then when the
epidemic started, it just, you couldn't go nowhere. You know, they do, they shut down and
that. So during them times, I'd stay home, make sure no one comes and visits. But even
though it would be nice, but not because of the epidemic. I didn't want to get sick and all
that other so. And then I have a miniature pinscher just turned nine years old. So he keeps
me company. And then I would just take him outside and come back in, there was no
nothing else to do. So thanks for DVD, movies, and YouTube. And Netflix, I kept myself
occupied instead of getting out crazy. Crazy.
Kathleen Clark 07:15
So has the pandemic changed your outlook on life at all?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 07:19
To be more, to be more careful, wash my hands. It's not over. You know, every time we turn
the TV on, there's more viruses and some fungus thing going around now, you know, it's
just getting worse. And I'm a type of one to, to believe in my faith. You know, like they say
in revelations, "all the things that are happening are happening now." And then like with
all the...how can I say this? With the other shootings and stuff? You got to realize if you go
Mercedes 2021
Page 3 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
back in history, all that that happened before, and it's happening again, it's just getting
worse, you know, bye! Oh, I'm sorry. And it's just getting worse. And, you know, you can't
go outside, not even in the day anymore, you know, without getting shot or assaulted or
something happening. So, with me, I just, I gotta if I got to do something, I make sure it's
done before, or at least, those street lights come on, because I don't go back outside.
There's nothing out there except trouble. But as you can see, they do mean, they don't
care what day time of day it is. But you just got to keep your guard and stuff and your
surroundings and everything. I just pray that these young ones would stop retaliating with
each other. You know, it might not be their fault. Maybe the parents are not paying
attention to them and that, but you know, life is too short.
Kathleen Clark 09:31
We'll see. So in the summer of 2020 the movement against systemic racism began as
Minneapolis was the epicenter with the murder of George Floyd. Can you describe your
experience living in Minneapolis during that time?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 09:50
With me, Katie, during that time when that happened to the guy it's it just...So my opinion
is I don't know, I seen the video and stuff, but he could have just cooperated and did what
they wanted him to do. But I don't know, I think he just to me, and he more escalated it.
But like I said, it didn't change anything of me living my life, or doing what I got to do. It
ain't it didn't stop me from doing anything. I didn't, wasn't like scared for my life, because,
oh, all African Americans are out there to kill somebody because of what happened. But
during the riots, I just stayed inside and watched it on the news, you know, and just sat
there like, this, what happened back in the 60s, you know, or was the 70s when they had
riots, Detroit and Chicago. That's just what happened. But they didn't, though, looters or
whatever, they didn't have to go all these different stores and tear up, you know, or burn
them, and it just made it worse. So with me during that time, I just took care of myself. And
like I said, just to live, you have to deal with it you know? You can't get mad and upset
about it, because it's gonna happen, you know, and now that it's over, they're slowly trying
to build back up what they had. But that takes time and money and all that. So praying to
those lost stuff.
Kathleen Clark 12:04
Well, and for me, knowing you, as long as I have and knowing like, what you've had to
endure, as far as like many different health issues that's happened in the last few years,
Mercedes 2021
Page 4 of 8
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you always are so positive in giving back. So what, where does that resonate from? And,
and I do want I don't want to generalize, but I do feel like many people are feeling more,
you know, despair, or hopeless, maybe right now, with all the different things that we've
lived through in these last few years. So what brings you your strength and your joy,
M
Mercedes Ramsey 12:41
My strength, and my joy brings me with them myself. Because, you know, like I've said, life
is too short. And with me, I want to enjoy it every day. And if I don't take care of myself, I'll
get sick, and I'll do my treatments through dialysis. I won't be here. So with all the things
that are happening in this world, I just, I got to keep myself positive, even though at times,
Katie, I feel like I want to give up, like, I don't want to be here no more. But I then like, sit
there and I pray about it. And you know, ask God to give me strength in that. And so I, I
tend to sometimes, like, "Oh, I don't want to do this, and I don't want to live life no more
because life is just getting so hard." But then I'd be thinking, well, I wonder how I would feel
whenever everybody knows that, you know, Mercedes gone to see her Heavenly Father,
but then I try not to think that way. So I just, I keep doing what I got to do and that's just,
take care of myself and do my best to live in little longer.
Kathleen Clark 14:22
So if there's something that 30 years from now that you wanted people to remember
about what it was like for people who are experienced who have either experienced
homelessness or are marginally housed or you know, have been living downtown, is there
what would you want people to remember 30 years from now about this moment in
Minneapolis.
M
Mercedes Ramsey 14:49
That to be more to give yourself more strength and things will be bad some days will be
Good, but always remember to keep your faith up and be strong about it. There'll be days
where you don't want to do nothing. And you just feel like given up. But you know, that's
why we have mental health groups and drop in centers and stuff. And people need to take
more. Take the opportunity of using them services, because we're losing too many young
people as it is, regardless if you're young, middle aged or elder, but. They just keep keep a
sharp mind, or keep their mind sharp or will try to, you know, being homeless and then get
into these programs. Yeah, you get a follow rules. Excuse me. You got to follow rules.
Regardless, wherever you live, you know, so. And if they don't like the rules, then that's why
some of them sleep outside. They don't like to go by the shelter rules. So
Mercedes 2021
Page 5 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Kathleen Clark 16:19
Some, some of the people who might listen to this oral history might wonder what issues
or what things they could do to get involved or to help? Is there something that people
hearing this could help with, that you envision whether it's through, you know, just your
own experiences, or your work with Street Voices? Like, what's something that you would
want people to know or be aware of to work on?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 16:31
They want to get help in that?
Kathleen Clark 16:56
No, like, let's say that we share this with others who had been at Street Voices who wanted
to hear more stories from people about their experiences at this point in life? What would
you want them to work on? Like, you know, you have your housing shelter bill, you have,
you know, many different things like the evictions are going to start happening again. And
all those things like, Is there an issue like health, addiction, whatever it might be, that you
really think needs some attention, if somebody were to put some effort into something?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 17:32
What you mentioned a lot of though, you know, addiction and eviction and all other
things, what's more important is to, to help them get off, get off out of the streets, get into
some program. There's a lot of them around here. I think, now that you mention it, Avivio
has got in warehouse little homes, you know, that they... all they need is different people to
help them with getting into the resources. And if people were to get information and get
out and log into, into computers and print out stuff for them, because some some of them
need, you know, a little boost. You know, like, here you go. There's these different
resources. And some of them some people don't even know too many of what's going on
around here. Because they feel like they're too scared. Or if they do talk, they feel like,
well, in the house, some feel like I don't want to officers or the officials to get involved. So I
don't want to be bothered, you know, but yeah, they they had like something here where
somebody, say for instance, comes in and says, well, we need some help of getting into
some type of housing, well, then you just get up in that computer, then start looking for
different resources for them.
Mercedes 2021
Page 6 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Kathleen Clark 19:29
And what was the big change for you that got you to get off the streets and, you know,
get sober, was there some moment?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 19:39
Because I had gotten sick of waking up sick or having a hangover or sleeping on this
couch or sleeping at this person's house and, you know, because you got to follow by their
rules. So it got to a point Katie I was like, I gotta change. So that's when I don't know, it
must, god was hearing my plea or something when I was at Simpson's womens' shelter.
And because the next day they were like, when Mercedes, we got to talk to you talk to me
about what? Well, you got to come in the office. Well, whatever woman said, I did it, I
didn't do it. So they're like, No, no, no, you're not in trouble. No, we're, oh, we picked you
and few other women to get into our new housing program. So from there, I, you know, I
was, real happy. And the advocate is supposed to get with me, and who were to drive
around and look at places, but I had already had places in mind, you know. And she took
me to one place 26 and Columbus, I still remember, and got in there. And next thing, you
know, I'm inviting my drinking buddies, and we're partying, carrying on and finally I'm like,
"you're only here in this apartment with me, because I got this place. It's a place where
you can come and drink." And then I like, "all of you guys to get out!" And then from there,
from then on, I just, you know, slowly working on myself. But yeah, every once in a while,
you know, they're like, "Oh, you think you're better than us?" Well you can get into a place
too, you know! You got to follow the rules. And and if you don't follow them, you're out. So
and since then, I've had a place. No, there'd be times where it was hard, but I made sure
my rent was paid and my lights. And now I manage my money and budget it when I can.
Might splurge every once in a while. But, you know, you know, you have people that help
you and you want to help them back? So I feel good about it.
Kathleen Clark 22:38
So being a person of color living in Minneapolis, has it been different since George Floyd
died in any way? Or is it been basically the same as far as like, just feeling any more
pressures or microaggressions? or any of those things?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 22:57
With me, Katie, I try not to even think on that. You know, like I said, it's times are changing,
and it's gonna keep going on and on. No matter one group wants to stop it and change it,
or another group just keeps escalating. It's just gonna keep doing and like I said, I just, I
Mercedes 2021
Page 7 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
just live my life and take care of me. I'm not worried about all that. It's gonna happen. You
know, I'm saying, you turn on your TV and something else is happening. You know, but
Kathleen Clark 23:40
I would say you take care of others too. You take care of me. Well, is there anything else
you'd like to add? Or?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 23:51
Yes, Augsburg, every times a nurse celebrates? We're gonna have pizza party, right?
Kathleen Clark 24:01
I love it. Okay, bye. We're sitting by the door. So everyone's waving if they leave. Thank
you so much,
M
Mercedes Ramsey 24:11
you're welcome
Kathleen Clark 24:11
This concludes our interview for the day and thanks for taking the time.
M
Mercedes Ramsey 24:17
No, problem.
Mercedes 2021
Page 8 of 8
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Show less
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
Thu, 7/22 11:02AM
21:27
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
life, epidemic, homelessness, person, blessing, nonsense, illinois, work, pandemic, stronger, katie,
strength, homeless, toll, stay, sharing, melvin, augsburg, minneapolis, mobility
SPEAKERS
Isaac Tadé, Melvin Jam... Show more
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
Thu, 7/22 11:02AM
21:27
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
life, epidemic, homelessness, person, blessing, nonsense, illinois, work, pandemic, stronger, katie,
strength, homeless, toll, stay, sharing, melvin, augsburg, minneapolis, mobility
SPEAKERS
Isaac Tadé, Melvin James
I
Isaac Tadé 00:02
Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the Augsburg University
Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tade. I'm a student intern with Augsburg
Central Health Commons, could you please introduce yourself for the recording.
M
Melvin James
00:15
My name is Melvin James.
I
Isaac Tadé 00:20
Thank you. And before we continue, I would like to confirm that you consent to be
interviewed and having the interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made
available to the public?
M
Melvin James
00:31
Sure, yes. All right, we'll need to be heard.
I
Isaac Tadé 00:35
All right, I agree. Well let's get right into it then Melvin. So, um, let's get to know you a little
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
Page 1 of 9
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bit more. Could you tell me about where you grew up, and who you call family.
M
Melvin James
00:47
I was growing up in Illinois, in a little country town. Eleanor, Illinois area called St. Anne,
Illinois. It's like 65 miles south of Chicago, okay. And raised in the country. And my mom
had 18 kids by one man. And so now we're down to five out of 18. So, I'm 62 years of age
now. I'm blessed and not distressed, and I try to give everybody else, the blessings. Some
what of the blessings that I have rolled up, rolled up around and the wisdom and and the
thoughts and humor
I
Isaac Tadé 01:49
The humor is a good part of it. Yeah. So, you, you said you had five siblings remaining. Do
you have any kids of your own?
M
Melvin James
01:58
Yeah. Four boys.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:59
Okay.
M
Melvin James
02:02
They stay in Illinois. Okay, I'm in Minnapolis, Minnesota. Okay, yeah, it was, I was 45 years
old when I moved to Minneapolis, and I'm 62 now, it'd be been, been a winding road, you
know, everybody's life goes through a wind and roll, you know, I live in, You know, but, you
know, I kind of, kind of try to remain, stay correctly into the end of my life. Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:33
Excellent, thank you. Um, can you tell me more about how you got involved with Street
Voices of Change?
M
Melvin James
02:40
I was homeless here a few years back, and stuff and so I become what you say, what can I
say. Kin of your life, you know, try to follow the, the pattern, who can help who, you know,
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
Page 2 of 9
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
sort of make my weakness, the strongest point of my life. And it was difficult, you know,
you know, but I think I found the nearest right path to walk down, you know, some paths it
was far off, you know, but I ended up finding it near the near path the follow to walk
down. Then I got to thinking about who I am, you know, as a person, you know, without
the thinking of a bad person, you know, and I'm not all that good either.
I
Isaac Tadé 03:53
I think we all got a little bit of that.
M
Melvin James
03:56
It was difficult work. I haven't, I haven't really reached any between harms in our I never
really put myself in harm's way too often. Unless it. If it doesn't benefit me I don't worry
about it. I don't worry about their, their, the, the nonsense. In life, you know, what nonsense
and will be available to you no matter what situation you might be in go through you
know nonsense gonna be there anyway.
I
Isaac Tadé 04:37
Okay, so what did life look for you before the pandemic, and what's different for you now
because of COVID?
M
Melvin James
04:44
Well, life. Before the pandemic, life was nice was gravy, you know, it was, it was
comfortable, you know, I did everything normal that I supposed to do, you know that to
keep myself raised as a human being, you know, and keep myself in a proper position. You
know they whenever they made here, it did it really take a toll on me you know it. Never
tripped over my own feet you know during epidemic, you know, but it slows down a lot, a
lot of preparations of things that I need to get out and do you know and people that need
to. People that I like to keep company with, you know, you know, they put a damper on,
you know, oh, on my lifestyle, you know, it's like basically like, I think everybody life is like,
put on hold. You know, you have to move to like you put on hold. There you go, but taking
all this nonsense drama care at all, you know, so I try to keep you away from their
nonsense, but it's available to you no matter what, you know, I'll come to you don't ever
work, but I was, as I stayed comfortable within myself, you know, everything, everything
worked out for me. Yeah. Good. Very, very well. Okay. very glad.
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
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I
Isaac Tadé 06:17
Okay, thank you for sharing
M
Melvin James
06:19
I took some losses, you know, epidemic, but it wasn't cause of covid and stuff, you know,
peoples' health get to fail I just buried a sister back here July the forth, just buried a sister
this year July the forth, and stuff, it wasn't because of that epidemic, their healthcare just
keeled over on them. Oh, yeah. But everyday, families, family that stays together family
that prays together stays together.
I
Isaac Tadé 06:50
Yes sir, yes sir. Um, so, in what ways has the pandemic changed your outlook on life. Do
you see things different now?
M
Melvin James
07:02
It's about the same, you know, do I enjoy my life is coming back stronger and stronger and
stronger, you know, day by day, hour by hour, you know, you know, you have to kind of
think about where you was before the epidemic, and where you gonna be after the
epidemic, you know, you get to kind of put that positive mode back into your life that you
had before, the epidemic, You know and I think things do it work out a whole lot easier.
And to get back normal. And I think that kind of trying to think ahead of what you should
process. After the effort epidemic, you know you should keep that same process, you
know, but upgrade it, you know, a lot, you know, a lot different.
I
Isaac Tadé 07:55
How would you say that COVID-19 change homelessness or affected homelessness, I
should say.
M
Melvin James
08:02
they get affected homelessness. A lot serious not motivated in a person that living in a
own home, you know where they can be provided for and gone, give a person at home
that they got nowhere to go, but to the shelter where the shelter is not providing them the
shelter that they need in a life, you know, they really need in a life that they nobody take
the time to feel they need the to gonna try to say to you know, To give them the blessing
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
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that they really need, you know everybody is, you know, they've got a job, concept, you
know that don't involve homelessness, you know, don't involve homeless you home that
you get home, you know this, this is this is this, this is the service, we got you you want it,
you take it, you know, if you want it you want it, you're not getting it.
I
Isaac Tadé 09:09
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I'm in the summer 2020 The movement against systemic
racism had Minneapolis at its epicenter, with the murder of George Floyd. Um, can you
describe your experience living in Minneapolis St. Paul during that time. It's a heavy
question
M
Melvin James
09:33
Yeah this is serious. Nonsense take a take a hold up in everybody's life. nonsense take a
hold up in everybody life, you know, and you take you take advantage of that nonsense,
you know, it's no, it's no, it's gonna, it's gonna through some red flags, you know, and it's
other people that doesn't challenge you on what you about what you work in for what
you're trying to learn, you know, that's, you know, that's, that's, that's a toll. You know
that's a toll, each and everywhere's life, you know. cuz you got to understand that other
people, different people lives matter to different people's, you know, it's a concept of what
you got to invite to, you know, what do you have to bring to the table, you know, you
bring you bring, You can't, you can't take. You can't take you can take a round table, and
make it a square, you know, you take a square table and make it round, you know, but
how round Do you want this table to be, you want to tell will be round enough for people
to sit around round enough for people to learn from around enough people to eat off. You
know, this is you know this is just, it's just a question on each and everybody's action in
everybody's head.
I
Isaac Tadé 11:04
What has brought you strength and hope through the last year.
M
Melvin James
11:09
Because I'm blessed not to distress for one thing, you know, and I do not let stress really
get to get to my soul. You know always tried to be blessed, you know with all types of evil,
you know, are trying to keep, keep my blessing. This is my priority my blessing is my
strength my blessing is my, my, my speaking. And my blessing, you know this is my
hungryness, you know, I'm starving for more blessing. I'm hungry for more blessings and
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
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blessings, never, never bertrayed you.
I
Isaac Tadé 11:52
I like that. I like that. So is there anything else that you want people to know or remember
30 years from now, about the experience. It's the experience of homelessness during this
period of time. What do you want people to remember.
M
Melvin James
12:10
Remember to hope, the hope that you get it life the hope that you, you get that you build
a strength for, you know you got to have hope. Have strength, to learn from our mistakes,
you know, the strength to strength. Strength on a soul in your body in your mind is the
strength of your life, you know, this is firstly your life, you keep that strength life upon you,
you know, you get you get stronger and stronger.
I
Isaac Tadé 12:41
That's what you want people to remember. Just beautiful. Um, if you could ask people to
work on something or get involved in an issue, what would that be, is there something that
people hearing this could help with what issues need more attention.
M
Melvin James
13:02
Violence. Trust. It's sort of a different flaw and every day. There's a different flaws and
every day but keep your head up, you know, keep yourself. To keep yourself out of harm's
way and in mobility yourself to be stronger, you know by everybody else's strong, you
know, trying to be strong, you know, invite you know, they strong this, instead of they
always be weak, you know, never, never, never challenged the book by a cover. Yeah. Y'all
we had to y'all we had to open the book to read the pages to see how, each and
everybody life is. You just can't look at the cover and judge a person by their appearance.
Yet, you go to somebody by their apearance, you miss the whole message you missing the
whole message, you have to open the book and read the pages of this notebook of life.
I
Isaac Tadé 14:20
So are you saying that people shouldn't make make assumptions and that they should
live experiences so that they can know where to be like helpful?
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
M
Melvin James
14:33
Oh yeah, yes. I mean, don't don't put yourself to be homeless, you know, homeless.
Homeless Not, Not, not, not a class act. there's something that that comes overnight, you
know, you might wake up in the morning you might you might do some you might say
something to somebody, somebody might, you know, don't, don't appeal of what you say
or don't approve of what she's saying or what do you want to do, you know, and that can
that can take that could take your life backwards. That could take your life backwards,
you know, i think for some sort of some some, you know, in aint about drug and alcohol,
contents or nothing like that, you know, but that can be it can be our total fault, too. But
keeping you keeping your mind, mobility in a positive state. If you lose a positive state
that you might lose out on everything, you know, that can bring you to homelessness and,
you know, trying to try to try to pay Paul, trying to rob Paul to pay to pay Peter, you know,
you voice, you work against yourself. You never take you never should work against
yourself, you should be able to work with others.
I
Isaac Tadé 16:06
Okay, thank you. And just a few final questions geared towards health. What would you
say that you need for health? What do you need for good health?
M
Melvin James
16:20
good vitamins. Okay, good positive role model. Good a good for good, you know, he take
a good or bad, good for good. And try to...it's hard to try to eat right, you know, we, we get
a certain age, you know, when you're a kid, you know you can your parent. Somebody
that's overseeing you can, can, can help you feed yourself right but once you get older,
you really doesn't. Yeah, you really doesn't, you know, you want to do just stay healthy.
Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 17:25
Have you met the nurses at Central? And then, do you have any feedback for them.
M
Melvin James
17:31
Oh yeah they good people. A really good part of the people they people person, you don't
have it. Everybody I think come to the site about three to four times a year, maybe less. I
really don't keep count I just ideas come where, where I know I can feel creative, or I can
feel life, or I can feel wanted to feel love, you know,
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
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I
Isaac Tadé 18:00
And you feel those things here?
M
Melvin James
18:01
All right, good. That's why I come, yeah come to here all the time, you know, because I
feel, I feel like this big old coffee house. Yeah with enjoyment, you know that keeps me to
come and sit down and you can basically talk about anything that going on with what in
your life, and ask them about how they life, treat now, you know, you know, Katie. She's,
she's a wonderful, she's a wonderful girl. And all her all her followers were
I
Isaac Tadé 18:35
little disciples
M
Melvin James
18:36
right you know, they, you know she out he hand picked them her group, it that they want
to hang out with it, you know, but I feel that the group of people that that Katie mends
with is good people like her, you know, good, good positive people like her, you know, as I
come through her you know and I see a new face a new nurse or something, you know,
And they say back you know they like. I'm trying but you know I'm trying to, you know, not
to get too evolved in a homeless person or a lot of visitors. And I'm like, "well it's your first
time? yeah well it's my first time too.
I
Isaac Tadé 19:34
relatability
M
Melvin James
19:35
right yeah, my first time here today. Oh, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, you know, don't,
don't be afraid, you know, say something we just people right, you know, Yes, you know,
just be careful, a while for you to open up, you know, around you around peoples that is
less, less, less unfortunate, but what, but they try to, they try to not try to force they selves
what they try to learn your education as you try to learn my education, right, like, Yeah,
I
Isaac Tadé 20:15
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
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okay. Yeah. Okay, thank you. That's really good feedback for the nurses I think they'll
appreciate that. Um, is there anything else you'd like to share before we finish today.
M
Melvin James
20:28
I appreciate every day this church in every place I go, you know they welcomed me with
open arms and, you know, let me, let me joke with them and, You know, they gave me
some feedback some joking feedback. And I like that I like, like a strong person, you know,
a person that won't be a person, you know, definitely a people person, you know, that
excites me. It keeps me motivated, you know, I know, I know where to come, when I, when
I feel like I'm down all I gotta do is think of, Central Lutheran Church, Katie, all in them,
you know, and that brightens my day. You know,
I
Isaac Tadé 21:12
that's beautiful.
M
Melvin James
21:13
Brigthens my day.
I
Isaac Tadé 21:14
Okay, well thank you, that's all the questions I have for today. Again, thank you for taking
your time and for sharing your stories and insights, Oh, you're all right. Thank you.
Melvin James: Oral History 2021
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Show less
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral
History 2021
Thu, 7/22 11:31AM
26:53
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, pandemic, floyd, augustana, exodus, catholic charities, place, whatnot, augsburg, george,
receive, put, voices, commons, life, stimulus, homeless, stay, caddy, frostbite
SPEAKERS
Grant Tyus S... Show more
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral
History 2021
Thu, 7/22 11:31AM
26:53
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, pandemic, floyd, augustana, exodus, catholic charities, place, whatnot, augsburg, george,
receive, put, voices, commons, life, stimulus, homeless, stay, caddy, frostbite
SPEAKERS
Grant Tyus Sr, Isaac Tadé, Robert Nammar
I
Isaac Tadé 00:02
Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the Augsburg University
Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tadé. I'm a student intern with Augsburg
Central Health Commons. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording?
R
Robert Nammar 00:16
Robert Nammar
G
Grant Tyus Sr 00:19
Grant Tyus Senior
I
Isaac Tadé 00:21
Thank you. And before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being
interviewed, and having that interview stored at Augsburg University, that will be made
available to the public.
Grant Tyus Sr 00:32
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage
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G
Grant Tyus Sr 00:32
Yes,
R
Robert Nammar 00:33
yes.
I
Isaac Tadé 00:33
Okay, thank you. All right, so can you tell me more about how you got involved. Oh,
excuse me, I'm jumping ahead of myself. Can you tell me where you grew up and who you
call family?
R
Robert Nammar 00:45
Grew up. This is Robert Nammar, I grew up in Indiana. East Chicago. Say what?
I
Isaac Tadé 00:56
Who you called family.
R
Robert Nammar 00:58
My family. Family.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:03
Do you have, do you have siblings?
R
Robert Nammar 01:06
Yeah, I got two sisters and a brother.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:11
Okay,
R
Robert Nammar 01:12
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage
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Just lost one, so.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:14
I'm sorry.
R
Robert Nammar 01:15
Yeah, oldest.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:17
Do you have any kids?
R
Robert Nammar 01:19
no kids
I
Isaac Tadé 01:20
no kids.
R
Robert Nammar 01:20
Yeah, okay. Thank you.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 01:24
My name is Grant Yyus, born and raised in South Minneapolis area, went to school all the
way up to high school, where I attended on Lake Taylor High School and my sister's
husband was in the Navy, so I was in Northrop, Virginia. For people I consider my family,
don't have to be blood related just those that I have been loyal to and show loyalty to me.
I
Isaac Tadé 01:48
Beautiful. Um, so can you tell me about how you got involved with Street Voices of
Change?
Robert Nammar 01:58
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage
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R
Robert Nammar 01:58
I was homeless for a while, so I kind of followed everybody from where to go and stuff.
Tried to fight and figure it out, you know.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:09
It was word of mouth?
R
Robert Nammar 02:10
Yeah, word of mouth. I would follow, and follow people, and it became a thing. They said
they get a meeting. So I've attended the meeting, and it's all good.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:27
And you've been here ever since. How many years have you been?
R
Robert Nammar 02:30
About 10 years,
I
Isaac Tadé 02:32
okay wow. Awesome!
G
Grant Tyus Sr 02:36
My name's Tyus. I've been here coming to these meetings for about a year now. There's a
brother, Stefan, I used to see him on downtown a lot. I used to be at Catholic Charities
Exodus apartments in Augustana, where your school is that, that's where I had received
my frostbite, my dad used to be at Augustana nursing home place for people so. Stefan
let me know about this meeting, I got two kids to my son's name is Stefan, their middle
names. I just been coming in since then.
I
Isaac Tadé 03:09
That's a blood you're talking about.
Grant Tyus Sr 03:10
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage
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G
Grant Tyus Sr 03:10
Yeah, yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 03:11
Wow. Okay, um, I'm gonna ask you about COVID-19. So what would you say life was like
before the pandemic, and what's different for you now because of the pandemic.
R
Robert Nammar 03:23
Yeah, a lot of places were open, you know you can get to stuff and then the pandemic
came, then all sudden closing down. Trying to figure out where to go you know. That's
what happened.
I
Isaac Tadé 03:40
That was a difficult time.
R
Robert Nammar 03:41
Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 03:45
So would you say at this point, things have opened up more, and there are more services
for folks who are homeless.
R
Robert Nammar 03:52
Yeah. Yeah, okay.
I
Isaac Tadé 03:54
But during the pandemic is mostly closed?
R
Robert Nammar 03:57
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Grant Tyus & Robert Nammar: Oral HistoryPage
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G
Grant Tyus Sr 04:16
During the whole, before the epidemic, I don't know. I recieved frostbite like in December
2019, and from the result of that, I end up at the Exodus apartments that's part of the
Catholic Charities, but like I said, I understand that Augustana was bought out by Catholic
Charities, that's where my father used to be at. Before the epidemic I used to umm, I don't
know, I was more involved and things but I didn't have an amputation of half of my foot
and almost all my toes on the other foot. You know, but I'd met George Floyd too, when I
was released from Exodus for like nine days, January 29, 2020. Or no, was it not February?
I don't know what day it was, but I was released for like 10 days or a week a little bit over a
week and he used to smoke his little K2, so I introduced him to CBD so it's a small world
because the place that he got killed that he lost his life in the same place in 1999, when I
got taken out the gang from, out of the gang. I was shot up there. So.
I
Isaac Tadé 05:30
Wow, so what, what was, where were you living during the the pandemic, what was that
like for you?
G
Grant Tyus Sr 05:39
During the pandemic, I was on right there at Catholic Charities Exodus apartments that's
right downtown in Minneapolis.
I
Isaac Tadé 05:46
Okay. Yeah.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 05:47
It was chaotic because there's a lot of different things going on people dealing with their
frustrations and whatnot. The best way they knew how I guess you know I have family
members, that's part of George Floyd Memorial. Guapa, my older cousin and Reginald
Ferguson, down there, they're trying to do something different. There's not a lot of
resources as far as people on to relieve their pain and housing and different stuff that's
been destroyed, but there's not doing that in North none of the properties and stuff so. It's
just a lot of things going on to that's like the ripple effect, it's a flame that keeps going.
I
Isaac Tadé 06:25
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Wow. Okay, thank you. Um, so you would say that some of those things that occurred
during the pandemic, lack of resources are still happening now?
G
Grant Tyus Sr 06:36
Absolutely.
I
Isaac Tadé 06:37
Yeah. So you haven't seen it getting much better?
G
Grant Tyus Sr 06:40
No because a lot of people that are preyed upon are the first people. It's not an epidemic
or could it be not you have to talk to them people personally or just emotionally scarred
about on different things that we live in every day, you know, and these are resources that
are available. I don't think they've been dispersed enough because a lot of places are
desimate, they're empty or whatnot, and then there's people that can utilize that space as
you know and they've said, you know, it's gonna be even more so people that's gonna be
homeless, you know, they always got to increase because people usually living paycheck
to paycheck, you know, if they aint got their own career got some type of way to make
funding and, you know, in all these empty places can be utilized, you know, whether it's
GRH where it's 934 936 a month where the government is paying or caddy program which
I've been in since December where I've been preyed upon more than anybody I know and
I'm the one that put them together. But it's just all these empty places I and all these
people out here, that's all suffering and they shouldn't have to.
I
Isaac Tadé 07:49
So, tell me what a caddy program is
G
Grant Tyus Sr 07:52
Caddy waiver program is for a lot of people have vulnerabilities like me, whether it's
mental or physical which I have both. And based on your like income they'll help you with
housing just like the GRH program I was at a Catholic Charities.
I
Isaac Tadé 08:05
Okay, okay, and you're saying that there just needs to be more of those types of programs
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G
Grant Tyus Sr 08:09
Absolutely because there's all kinds of places that are landlords that might just be
struggling with their properties where they can utilize these type of programs I had a
property paid off.
I
Isaac Tadé 08:20
Yeah. Um. The next question is about your outlook on life. How has your outlook on life
changed because of the pandemic.
R
Robert Nammar 08:37
I'm down on rent. I rent. And I'm starting to get, you know what to call it, I tried to get my
payment. Direct, what you call it
I
Isaac Tadé 08:53
direct payment,
R
Robert Nammar 08:54
no, or that stimulus. Yeah, that 12 houndred dollars. I get the other stuff, they mailed it to
me. They've mailed, and I got that. 12 houndred, boom! Come up, they issued it to an
account. And I don't know what account. And they said they sent a card I don't see no
card. So I got to go through that, things find it to find money. So that's what I've been
going through.
I
Isaac Tadé 09:28
Has it changed the way that you see life.
R
Robert Nammar 09:32
life. See, like, I can't get nowhere. Because the dang pandemic. Yeah, I can't move, I can't
do nothing, You know,
Isaac Tadé 09:47
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I
Isaac Tadé 09:47
and so that that's you're saying that's directly because of the pandemic?
R
Robert Nammar 09:51
Yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 09:53
Right. With the struggle that you just had trying to get your stimulus check.
R
Robert Nammar 09:56
Yeah, yeah, bought me a TV, you know, instead of paying rent, but uh, I'm not inspecting
that, I mean I'm expecting, I'm expecting the pandemic, sort of money for that
I
Isaac Tadé 10:09
the stimulus check
R
Robert Nammar 10:14
Yeah. So how would you say that, Oh, I think things probably for me like, when I'm staying.
I'm staying next Exodus apartments for Catholic Charities apartments since December, 18,
2019 all the way to December the first 2020 where moved in to Open Hearts, LLC 44th and
Park, I was receiving on level three and four care, Exodus apartments, and after I had this
assessment for the caddy program I was told I was supposed to still be receiving the least
equal amount of care or higher care since I moved into this open heart place but I've
been, I haven't received nothing at all, you know I've been fending, to fend for myself had
to go to food shelves and different things had to put a camera in my room because
people going in and out of my room violating my space, you know, and I don't see all
people as the same, but I am a victim of sexual assault by a cop in 2009 but I put my ex to
school for law enforcement. Because I believe in doing the right thing, you know, and, but
what the epidemic going on, is like a lot of people take advantage of your vulnerability
see as as a way to prey upon you instead of a way to help you, you know, but I take that
as far as I do, I try to do the opposite of what, what I get, you know saying if I don't like to
be hit I don't hit I never discipline my kids that were never so I like to be out there helping
others with the same situation I'll probably get the opposite up.
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I
Isaac Tadé 11:48
Wow. Wow. So it sounds like you're extremely resilient. For all of the things that you too
have have been through through the pandemic, and you know you're still putting your
best foot forward,
G
Grant Tyus Sr 12:01
or half a foot!
I
Isaac Tadé 12:05
Right! Yes sir, yes sir. So, What would you say has brought you hope through this time what
what lifts you up, what keeps you going?
R
Robert Nammar 12:19
These meetings that, I mean, going to the streets. The streets, what's the go,
I
Isaac Tadé 12:28
Street voices.
R
Robert Nammar 12:29
It's streeth voice, yeah, yeah, you know, at least we can get some tokens. That's it. Yeah.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 12:41
What keeps me going is my faith formost, you know. Oh, my kids. I'm supposed to be in a
wheelchair, I only used to walker or when it's absolutely necessary because I wanted them
never had to see me as crippled as I am or whatnot, you know. And as far as helping
others, I'd rather be able to help somebody else even though I don't receive help without
looking for anything in return, you know, and just, just, just realize that life's about. You got
free will, you got a choice of whatever you do, when you wake up in the morning, you
know, even if the person had a gun to my head I never got backed off from doing the right
thing and not being there for my kids. I just realized that I do go out at all, you know, this is
just my personal fulfillment in it, God has always made a way, you know, so I try to do the
best by him I possibly can and, and just keep faith and that and that alone.
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I
Isaac Tadé 13:37
Yeah, grateful, grateful. So in the summer 2020 the movement against racism had
Minneapolis in the epicenter, with the George Floyd murder. Um, can you describe your
experience living in Minneapolis, St Paul area during that time, what was that like for you,
R
Robert Nammar 14:00
The pandemic was a theme. So, you keep, had to abide by the rules, you know, you go
through the motions. But a lot of stuff, closed down. And they came in, you cant even get
nothing, you know. And now, they open back up. Some now they open, we are trying to
get they're trying to figure out what's going on here, you know? that's it.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 14:35
Yeah. Like I said I'll shut up again. Back in 99, right down 38th and Chicago. That's where
George Floyd got killed, I was born and raised there, you know? And just with everything
going on when things are going on. Usually I'll find stuff on Facebook you know and face
all day as your face I buy the watch unit on the book, you know, my 10 year old daughter
had to tell me that. So I usually, I can see the pain in people's eyes or motions that go on
through by sometimes it just bringing up old wounds but sometimes people are taking
advantage of the same situation and becoming destroyed in this city or state that was
born and raised in and that aint right. If you don't like pain, you shouldn't do painful things
that are inflicted on others. In a lot of people like he was saying they'll work their whole life
to earn a way or make a way and a lot of these just scored some things that never to be
replaced. Just like the healing process. Once you lose something you can't put no bandaid
on it you know what I'm saying.
I
Isaac Tadé 15:42
You can't bring back human life.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 15:43
No, absolutely not. I lost my mom and my sister, my mom and I was nine and my sister
when I was 17 So
R
Robert Nammar 15:51
I lost my dad in 88, and my mom and 96.
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I
Isaac Tadé 16:00
Wow, thank you for sharing. And you said you've a new George Floyd personal.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 16:04
Yeah, I just saw him, he used to smoke some of that deuce, I smoke that k2 stuff and I was
thinking I was making crazy, mad put GPS on my phone I stay right across the street, I'm
late, and I couldn't find my house and now I stay right across the street. But I have some
CBD I told him you know, why don't you try some of this, we were always making fun, I had
my feet then , but they were some stinky little things. To clean the shower whenever it is
CBD. So I got to meet him personally. Even though I was even not even supposed to have
left Exodus, I had two quarter or two statements from the doctor saying I wasn't supposed
to be left in the cold, or whatever. So that's why when the Bill of Rights came to Street
Voices of Change like, think it's rule 23 or 24, I wrote down that part. That a person should
never had to leave this place not a shelter but we look at a place, a person can call home,
you know, she never have to be thrown out in streets. When the world is for everybody,
you know, a person should be comfortable wherever that they're not preyed upon. Yeah.
R
Robert Nammar 17:13
like, like you get this. Like, what is this,
I
Isaac Tadé 17:19
yeah, an interview
R
Robert Nammar 17:20
Interview yeah you know, that's cool. I'm glad you give voice and be heard,
I
Isaac Tadé 17:29
Well you, you people are the people who have lived these experiences, and and I've lived
them so wholeheartedly, right, and so a part of this project is to amplify what you have to
say, because we think that's so important. So thank you for being here. Thanks again. Um,
and then so is what is there. Excuse me. Is there anything else that you want people to
know or remember 30 years from now, about your experience, or other people's
experiences being homeless during this period of time.
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G
Grant Tyus Sr 18:11
I've been like, with Katie, I've been in a steady group for the encampment. I'll be in a lot of
different places where people don't have nothing but they're making the best out of what
they got, you know. If we was all together, you know like in like the ideal world, it was you
know, instead of looking at division or whatnot, and we can satisfy everybody about
humanity, you know, not nothing based on your religion, lack of religion, color, nothing like
that. If it's about humanity, the world would be a better place you know , you only got one
life to live now so and it's a difference between living in that system.
I
Isaac Tadé 18:46
So you'd say, what people got to take away from this situation from this moment of time is
to live in unity and not be so divided, I think a lot of times in this society we find reasons to
be against each other.
R
Robert Nammar 19:05
Something about black folks, you know, get together and talk to us all,
G
Grant Tyus Sr 19:10
There's only one race, the human race
R
Robert Nammar 19:12
yes
G
Grant Tyus Sr 19:12
And so people gotta stop putting ourselves in the box.
I
Isaac Tadé 19:17
Celebrate our differences,
R
Robert Nammar 19:18
yeah,
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I
Isaac Tadé 19:20
Yeah, that's that's beautiful. Um, let me see here. If you could ask to work on something if
you could ask people to work on something, or to get involved in an issue, what would
that be, is there something that people hearing this could help with, where do you think
people like me should be more involved?
R
Robert Nammar 19:44
With this, with the streets, you know, the Street Voices. so you can hear what's going on.
Hey, it's rough out there,
G
Grant Tyus Sr 19:58
That different individuals like us that's out there disabled. Um, probably be them eyes and
ears that most to people aren't able to experience, you know, be able to go different
places but most people have a time limit where they're not able to you know? Even at the
George Floyd, those people that I grew up with their parents or whatnot their kids out
there homeless and then living in places where they fit for animals to live in and nowadays
resources available, what, how is the pain being, not, not consumed, you know, if it's just
like on fire being put on it, you know, or gasoline because nothing being done that like
being overlooked.
R
Robert Nammar 20:39
I was going with the lady one time, she had kids and stuff. Police killed her son over north,
remember that? Tycel Nelson.
I
Isaac Tadé 20:53
What was the name again?
R
Robert Nammar 20:54
Tycel Nelson, he's the first one to get. I mean, that got killed by the police. And then
George Floyd, you know, everybody, you know, all that's happening in the city, you know.
I
Isaac Tadé 21:10
So, um, some of the issues that it sounds like you're bringing up is like violence that we
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need to be aware of and then just more people, more people being aware of
homelessness. Thank you. Um, just a few more questions about health. So what would you
say that you need to be healthy?
R
Robert Nammar 21:35
I got, I got health. I'm healthy, because I get two, I get a VA, and I got regular insurance.
Yeah they keep me going though. And I thank God for that.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 22:04
If I had a choice, I would have a different service provider way at place the place I live,
you know, because all they do is run the service. And that definitely ain't doing anything,
that they're supposed to whatever or claim to do. Other than that, probably for a while,
it's like a home project anyone is supposed to have when they gone to zero.
R
Robert Nammar 22:30
All right. Sixty years old so man, I've been through a lot.
I
Isaac Tadé 22:37
Oh yeah, I'm sure,
R
Robert Nammar 22:40
When I was in the army, they did, they sabotaged me, you know.
I
Isaac Tadé 22:46
What do you mean by that
R
Robert Nammar 22:48
I mean, you know, the dude they come, he came to the... I had a stroke so...
I
Isaac Tadé 22:59
Oh, okay.
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R
Robert Nammar 23:00
We came to the, the guard shack and there was a guard right? This guy he started some
stuff with me and, you know, and I almost went into it right with him. And I quit. Then I
went to the, to the barraks. And, you know, I went AWOL. They had me go, going AWOL
and stuff, dude considered... He threatened me, you know,
G
Grant Tyus Sr 23:34
You done left base and just went to the barraks?
R
Robert Nammar 23:37
I left base. I left, left, went home, came home, you know, that was down in Texas. Yeah, I
went home and then came back, they put me out. And then I've been going through shit
ever since.
I
Isaac Tadé 23:53
Right. And that's why having access to these medical centers is important for you. Yeah,
to stay healthy. Yeah, yeah. Um, next question is have you met with the nurses at Central
Health Commons. And then, do you have feedback for them.
R
Robert Nammar 24:12
Yes, they good, they good people. I see. I see they come in. Soak your feet and everything,
give you what want you know, it's good. Yeah.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 24:21
I want my feet soaked.
R
Robert Nammar 24:23
Yeah, I had a bad toe, toenails kept on going over, you know. They clipped that sucker for
me and everything.
I
Isaac Tadé 24:34
Right, they fixed you up.
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R
Robert Nammar 24:35
Yeah, I got diabetes so...
G
Grant Tyus Sr 24:39
this is done right here?
R
Robert Nammar 24:40
Yeah, well,
I
Isaac Tadé 24:41
Yeah, yeah right around the corner. Right. Yeah. Okay, you'll have to pull up on Monday.
Now you know, now you know, that's great. Um, okay, so then I guess the next question is
do you have any feedback for like health commons, is there anything that we can do
better? Is there anything missing?
R
Robert Nammar 25:09
Nothing I see.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 25:11
Okay, so that's on Mondays?
I
Isaac Tadé 25:13
Yeah Mondays and Thursdays.
R
Robert Nammar 25:14
Yeah, Mondays and Thursday.
G
Grant Tyus Sr 25:16
Yeah, see that's that one she was talking about
Robert Nammar 25:20
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R
Robert Nammar 25:20
my feet is important. Yeah, I have to get them checked and make sure there aint soars.
I
Isaac Tadé 25:31
Okay, so no feedback right now.
R
Robert Nammar 25:34
Nope.
I
Isaac Tadé 25:34
Okay. And then we're just about to be done, but is there anything else that you'd like to
say before we finish up.
R
Robert Nammar 25:41
I thank God because you're around, you know, peoples, getting to know people,
G
Grant Tyus Sr 25:47
Yeah I appreaciate y'all young individuals doing what you need to in life, for real.
R
Robert Nammar 25:52
Get some, get some. I mean help, you know, we need help. You could be like my son in the
studio, rapping or something. At least you're doing something for the cause.
I
Isaac Tadé 26:06
Well, we're trying to thank you, and it wouldn't be possible without your voices, and so on
behalf of Augsburg Health Commons, you know, we just really appreciate it and
appreciate you sharing what you have to offer because your experience is so valuable,
R
Robert Nammar 26:22
because I belong to a dignity center. They come over there they volunteered and and
stuff, you know, people from Augustana, okay. Yeah.
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I
Isaac Tadé 26:33
Yeah, and you appreciate it.
R
Robert Nammar 26:35
Yeah, yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 26:36
Well, it's a beautiful thing to give and receive right Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's about it
for today. This concludes our interview. Thank you so much again for taking the time and
for sharing your stories and insights with me. I appreciate it. Thank you.
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Show less
Darrell Warren 2021
Thu, 7/29 11:34AM
32:35
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, pandemic, life, feel, hope, hear, voices, community, gave, street, health, floyd, situation, call,
officers, law enforcement, interacting, interview, shelter, fighting
SPEAKERS
Isaac Tadé, Darrell
I
Isaac Tadé 00:02... Show more
Darrell Warren 2021
Thu, 7/29 11:34AM
32:35
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, pandemic, life, feel, hope, hear, voices, community, gave, street, health, floyd, situation, call,
officers, law enforcement, interacting, interview, shelter, fighting
SPEAKERS
Isaac Tadé, Darrell
I
Isaac Tadé 00:02
Hello and thank you for joining us today for the oral history project for the Augsburg
University Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tadé, I'm a student intern with
Augsburg Central Health Commons, could you please introduce yourself for the recording.
D
Darrell 00:17
His name is Darrell Warren,
I
Isaac Tadé 00:20
that, yes, yeah. No, go ahead. I cut you up,
D
Darrell 00:25
just participating in this interview here process. So you guys can get a better perception of
what we experienced of being homeless is
I
Isaac Tadé 00:37
excellent, thank you. And just before we continue, I would like to just confirm that you
consent to being interviewed, and that the interview can be stored at Augsburg University
Darrell Warren 2021
Page 1 of 16
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
available to the public.
D
Darrell 00:50
Yes, I agree with that.
I
Isaac Tadé 00:52
Okay, thank you. So, getting right into it. Can you tell me about where you grew up and
who you call family?
D
Darrell 00:59
Yeah, I grew up in Chicago, Illinois. And I left there at 17 with the Job Corps and the people
are called families is my siblings, which are deceased, my both parents, grandparents,
older brother and my youngest sister died of cancer. My mom died of breast cancer. My
grandmother died of cancer. My dad had a heart attack and my older brother had a
similar heart attack. And so I just had one sibling left, which is a twin. He's live in Rock
Island. And so people are called family on the streets and being homeless gets you in
different groups that I come across or become apart that's like Street Voices, really have
been supportive and helpful in my needs so that to me is family, those who can identify
your situation and we, you know, kinda interact with each other, they have become my
family and not necessarily bloods. They're my family only through DNA and blood, but,
you know, as far as the situations that I go in, they're not really supportive. You know, or
even been supportive of my situations and my needs, more to my homeless situations and
they have their own lives.
I
Isaac Tadé 02:34
Right, well and you have your dog.
D
Darrell 02:36
Oh yeah,
I
Isaac Tadé 02:37
you got your dog here today
Darrell Warren 2021
Page 2 of 16
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D
Darrell 02:39
Xena, that's my best friend
I
Isaac Tadé 02:40
Xena right there. Yeah, yes sir, yes sir. Okay, thank you. Um, could you tell me more about
how you got involved with Street Voices of Change.
D
Darrell 02:53
Yes I was, actually I was in fear for fear of my life in Hibbing, Minnesota, St. Louis County,
falsely arrested by law enforcement. And then I was one being assaulted, and they
trumped up all these charges on me of fleeing and obstruction and of that nature, and
which is all false and, you know, putting these guns on me so I've been fighting this battle
by myself for probably a whole year now. And, and I had to leave. I had to give up my
place, due to the fact that I was scared to live in that town, you know, cause they kept
harassing me and so I just packed up one bag and left my left my apartment. Been living
in Minnesota then I came to Minneapolis and I've heard of George Floyd and I had seen all
the events happening on TV, with law enforcement, with, you know with, uh with the
shootings. And I came to Minneapolis, Minnesota, you know, to get some help or, you
know, to find a lawyer, civil rights lawyer groups that have a support system, and Steet
Voices was the one that was, I met this guy named Earl he told me about it and and
invited me to a meeting, and I said I'd come by tomorrow morning about Street Voices
and I sat in the meeting and I like what they stood for. So, you know, I feel like I want to be
more of a part of their meetings and things that they do so I want be more involved.
I
Isaac Tadé 04:39
So you've been coming here for about a year now?
D
Darrell 04:41
No actually only I've only been in Minneapolis for a month and a half.
I
Isaac Tadé 04:49
Oh wow, okay,
Darrell 04:50
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D
Darrell 04:50
I'm been fighting my legal,
I
Isaac Tadé 04:52
okay that's been for a year.
D
Darrell 04:54
False, being falsely arrested
I
Isaac Tadé 04:56
right
D
Darrell 04:57
So, Steet Voices, this is probably my second, second meeting. Okay, Street Voices, on
coming.
I
Isaac Tadé 05:10
Well we're glad you keep coming back. Yeah. And I'm sorry about your false accusation,
that's, that's a terrible experience. Um, you talked about this a little bit already, but what
did life look like for you before the pandemic, and what is different for you now because of
COVID-19?
D
Darrell 05:33
I think life was a before the COVID, it was actually going well you know I think what, what,
for me what turned around, wasn't this so much of a COVID thing, it was a president that
we had. Donald Trump. And this was like my whole community changed. You know when
he became president and people just changed, you know, as they started seeing, you
know, color, you know, and I no longer felt no part of the community anymore, you know
I
Isaac Tadé 06:08
and is this, was this in Chicago or was this in...
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D
Darrell 06:12
Hibbing. Hibbing Minnesota, St. Louis County. And it just took a drastic change, you know,
in different groups coming up there and different people from different places of states
and recruiting people for these racial, for their racial hate groups and people just started
changing so I just started not feel like I didn't fit anymore. I'm still trying to have hope, you
know, they're like oh, is this really happening. You know, I would go into stores people
would call the police just for no reason or saying my service animal is not welcome and
I'm constantly being harassed by the police only get behind my car, and I'm like "hey you
know me and they have been in this community for awhile" you know just threw guns on
me and also getting it was getting really hectic, so I had to start being afraid, you know,
fleeing actually, fearing for my life.
I
Isaac Tadé 07:10
So all of those things those are social, and even some like political pressures that were
taking a toll on you, even before all of you know, the pandemic and all of the health
related things like that. How would you say, did, did COVID scare you at all? You know
maybe you're more afraid of, you know the police in Hibbing than COVID. You maybe not
thinking about a virus, that you can't see, you're probably thinking about a gun and an
officer that you can see.
D
Darrell 07:41
Yes, that's exactly how it was. That was the issue, and due to the COVID pandemic, it was
just like, you know, it was a ghost town and if you out at night with a certain time. It was
times where I was, you know, I didn't want to be out at even night to go to the store, it
might start to get dark, to go to the store because it was like, you know, I felt like I was
open season for like be more attacked. Because I did experience to where they had set up
like a curfew and I remember the one officers that come, you know, coming over and I
knew them. They knew me and I knew them, and I'm just sitting there, knowing this still in
Hibbing and I'm sitting there. On my laptop and, you know, they just came to sit there by
me, one standing up in there looking up, never said anything so then I'm like "wow". So at
this time, this is the beginning of the COVID. And so, and he asks, so then I asked him like
"hey, you know, what's going on?" "Oh Nothing we just sitting here." And I made a
statement about George Floyd and I was like, could they initiate a conversation or
anything so I just initiated a conversation but man it was really, right after the killing them
of George Floyd. And I was like "Wow man it's really sad what happened to George Floyd
man I mean, that was some coward stuff to have someone in handcuffs and then, you
know..
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I
Isaac Tadé 09:14
Choked him to death
D
Darrell 09:15
and take the choke them out, take his life. I was like, "man if I was him, I would have been
fighting back" so I had made a comment like that, they are officers. And, and I was afraid
too that they were about to engage, engage, engage me in that way. And they kept
looking around to see if anybody was around. And this drone appeared over us and I'm
like, "Oh wow, I hope that drone has a camera on it" and in someone had yelled out. We
just had a protest up there with, with the police shootings and stuff. And so when I looked
at the drone I was like, "I hope he has a camera on it" you know when somebody yelled
out, "leave him alone." You know I never seen a person or yelled out, and so I just told the
office I'm like "well, I know man is gonna be a curfew at nine o'clock and I'm just finishing
up on my laptop here but is there anything I can do for y'all?" They didn't say nothing. I
guess "I have nothing to talk to you about," you know, he made a statement like "Hey
where was you at such and such time?" I'm like, "what do you mean where was I, like you
seen me at the protests. You know, and I spoke to you. I was really afraid of my life if
anything. And they had finally walked off you know when they seen someone stand out on
the porch. I just thought there's gonna be enough statistical of violence from the police.
I
Isaac Tadé 11:02
That's terrifying. You know as a black man we feel like it could happen to any one of us at
any time.
D
Darrell 11:08
Yes, anytime,
I
Isaac Tadé 11:11
and to be in that position. I can tell you know that was incredibly, well, fearful.
D
Darrell 11:24
Yeah, they're very terrifying. And then I, you know, I try to see, you know, you know them,
not as a whole, as, as always, like, you know what's been using pattern behind a badge,
you know to attack people. And because I also had that experience too. My son, he was
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going to school for law enforcement.
I
Isaac Tadé 11:52
That's right,
D
Darrell 11:52
and he was the only African American in his class so when he used to do to the ride
alongs. And I think this was before Trump became president. We used to do ride alongs. I
know how families would feel when, you know, their husband or brother or wives out there
or some in the field, you know, to serve and protect, right, you know, now he's like oh wow.
You know when I hear sirens or something I call him and I hope he be alright. You know,
and I know that there are some good, you know, officers on force as well you know. There
were time I had to call them, call law enforcement. you know, situations and so I just look
at you know, not the whole force has being, you know, being attacked, but the ones who
can enforce and not abide by the rules. Think they're above the law. Them the ones I have
issues with.
I
Isaac Tadé 12:50
Of course, you know, we trust certain people to enforce the law and we don't expect that
they break it themselves, right, and that they, they also abide by the rules that normal
civilians like you and me have to abide by. Right. So, I guess, first of all thank you for
sharing that, and thank you for sharing your personal experience, um, in what way has the
pandemic shaped your outlook on life. Has it changed how you see things?
D
Darrell 13:23
Yeah. I don't know, the pandemic is like, everybody's desensitized you know. First it was no
interacting, you know, everything is done about monitor, right, you know, virtually,
virtually. And then two and also, I was being taken advantage of too. Like back when I was
going to court, you know, had a bad Zoom audio and a lot of my rights was being
violated. You know where if I do try to speak to defend myself in the courtroom with the
judge, and they would, they would mute me. You know, and then I call him and then ask
the prosecutor, what he want to get for the same thing I was falsely charged for it, you
know. And I would get muted. And, or they would just threaten me with contempt. You
know and they take, I feel I've been taken advantage of doing that type of situation as far
as the pandemic, that we had happening by zoom. Or there were times where I had to
write a motion for a complaint on the judge to have her be removed from off the case file,
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because she was violating my due process rights. Would not allow me to be heard. They
just really take advantage over to take a trial, and where I didn't even have, where the
prosecuter have any arrangement or submitted any evidence. You know I wasn't even
being in heard, it was just like "hey you're a number, you know, hey, well you'll have no
rights and you'd be muted, what you say don't matter." And that's the way I was taking
with the pandemic. And then what was scaring me as well, just what I was hearing about,
when I see that people with dying from this from this from this virus. You know and so a lot
of elderly people, family members down in the South, that, you know, have lost in life. My
older aunties and stuff like this. It was kind of scary that part of the generation now was
just gone.
I
Isaac Tadé 15:48
Was there anything that gave you hope through the last year. What made you keep, Keep
going. You had so much going on, you had police harassment. You had your case that
you're trying to fight for in court, the pandemic going on, you know, of course, a national
conversation or or even just, I don't know turmoil over, over, race, you know what, what
brought you hope what kept you moving forward through all that time?
D
Darrell 16:21
What was keeping me moving forward? I was looking for a support system and, you know,
Street Voices was, you know, it gave me hope or when I see the different groups as what's
out there. You know, Street Voices cause they know what they stood for. And not just
stood for, what they was practicing what they was fighting for, and then see. Also what
gives me hope is when I go down Nicolette just seeing, you know, city putting on you
know, different organization, putting out definitely events down on, downtown town bring
back unity. Entertainment, you know, music appearrances, started back interacting It's not
all virtual with Zoom anymore.
I
Isaac Tadé 17:10
Right. right,
D
Darrell 17:13
And, you know, we actually can say hi you know and smile you know and it's not behind
some screen and you know you've been blowing off you know what I'm saying you can
even go to, you know, kids can have no connection with a human being. That felt really
weird, odd and lonely. And you know, to actually be or, you know, just know seeing, you
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know once things started opening up and and see people interacting, that's what gave me
gave me and giving me hope
I
Isaac Tadé 17:47
that's helpful
D
Darrell 17:48
to know that, no matter what race, color, creed, you know, I've seen people from all walks
of life and people actually existing, you know, and it's peaceful.
I
Isaac Tadé 17:58
Yes sir
D
Darrell 17:59
unity, started to develop. And Street Voices. Again you know to come here, you know, it
helped me again. A situation to wasting you know, when my car was illegally towed, I just
got a job. I went into Street Voices, you know, was working at a place of hotel told me that
they was hiring, I just started work Friday. Then on Saturday evening, I go and I'm living in
the shelter now and I go Saturday evening. Go back to the shelter and I get off work and
now my car towed, you know, and then that was towed illegally by traffic controls. So, like,
one thing out of another and their price is outrageous. Yeah, and my whole life is in my
car, my vehicle.
I
Isaac Tadé 18:53
Have you gotten the vehicle back or it's still in there?
D
Darrell 18:55
Oh, it's still in there, been in there since Saturday but, you know, you know, the
organization that helped me out with some funding to to get it out today, which is a
blessing because I don't know how to do it I have my whole life in there. Clothes,
paperwork, medical papers, everything, basically living out my car.
Isaac Tadé 19:22
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I
Isaac Tadé 19:22
Right, right. Wow. So you're thankful to Street Voices for helping you get the funds to
hopefully get that vehicle out.
D
Darrell 19:30
Yes, very grateful.
I
Isaac Tadé 19:32
Yeah, yeah. Wow, thank you for sharing that. And I'm so glad that this place has brought
you some hope comfort, support, you know, during this time and. The next question is, is
there anything else that you want people to remember 30 years from now, about your
experience with homelessness during this period. What should people take away, what
should they remember?
D
Darrell 20:03
Remember, the unity, and that there is hope and love in in numbers. You know? And that
no person is alone. You know, I thought I was alone, you know, in the sense of family and
community, feeling belonging, not judged by my race, color, creed or my gender, you
know, which is a beautiful feeling like to be myself and not have to be ashame to what is
going on in my life. You know and you know I could feel free to kind of open up about my
about my experience. where as before I wasn't because I felt, you know, the times I was
confined to someone that I didn't know. Suddenly speaking and it was being used against
me. You know, even I guess some shelters, with staff, you know, they will use it against me
and they don't think nothing of it. The least, little mistake they put you up out of, out of
shelter. You're late, or anything or, you know, you know this, and then just add more stress
because then I'm back, and then I got to sleep outside. You know, just outside of the park
or something so I'm just thankful for what gives me hope to see churches come together
where you know they allow us to sleep in the churches or give us blankets coffee, you
know, water, you know, so yeah that's the community that brought me hope even if I was
living on the streets, that was still, you know, helping people, was actually willing to help
and be a part of that,
I
Isaac Tadé 21:46
you want to people to remember that there was unity during this time.
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D
Darrell 21:51
Yeah,
I
Isaac Tadé 21:51
even though it seems like there's so much division.
D
Darrell 21:54
Yes, yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 21:56
Wow. And your personal story speaks to that
D
Darrell 21:59
yeah.
I
Isaac Tadé 22:01
Goodness gracious. Thank you. Um, okay, if you could ask people to work on something or
get involved on an issue, what would that be? Is there something that people hearing this
could help with? What issue should we be focusing on right now?
D
Darrell 22:21
The issue should be focused in on that. You know it's not that hard to smile or say hi to
someone. I remember I was downtown and I've seen Minneapolis Police standing there,
standing by their car, mean buggin', got their uniforms on you know. They have an
influence in their community but they, you know that's trusted they have to earn back and
I asked an officer like, "man, it don't cost you nothing to smile, you know, just to say wave,
you know to say hi, you know you're standing out by your car downtown in downtown
area," you know, but yet not greeting people. But I'm like, "hey, what if a kid come by, you
know and you're being mean to one of this childs. How would that child feel? you know, so
and I talked to a number of offices and sargents and so now I'm starting to see them
working doing the old school. They walk in the downtown area now and they're waving
and their smiling. That made me feel good to see
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I
Isaac Tadé 23:33
comfortable!
D
Darrell 23:33
if they feel comfortable to see it, they actually took a little time to listen and doing it. You
know because people are hurting and angry you know due to violence and, everything,
and loss of jobs, you know, so it's a hurting community as well as businesses you know so
we all got to exist, you know, and then people like myself have a mental illness you have
PTSD. And then, for people to be mindful of, you know before you judge or anything you
know you never know that person mental illness or what's going on in their life. Take time
out to just actually just know, view the whole situation with that person or to say
somethning kind, which is a beautiful feeling. Even I don't have much, but if I have
something someone need it, even if they don't need it. You know, I just go buy water, you
know, from Target and there's on the hot days, I just do some good for someone. And that
gets me out of myself my issues or problems to help someone else. You know with the
change, that made me happy at that moment in time, just to pass out waters, you know.
I
Isaac Tadé 24:48
Man. Going to need water's today it's hot.
D
Darrell 24:51
Yeah!
I
Isaac Tadé 24:53
End of July. Yeah I think that's what you're saying is, you know small acts of kindness, go a
long way. Yeah. I love that. I think everyone should incorporate that into their daily routine
and just, it doesn't cost anything that wear a smile, like you said, right. Well thank you for
sharing that. Um, so just a few more questions about general health. What would you say
that you need for health, as you define it. So, what do you need to be healthy?
D
Darrell 25:33
So I mean, first of all, what I need to be healthy is stability. Because if you have stability,
you can have a little healthy way of thinking. But we struggling, you know, from day to
day, if you're on the streets and homeless, some things stress you out so I find it a spiritual
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aspect, meaning. I have to get out of myself and I was service named Xena. She's been
very therapeutic for me.
I
Isaac Tadé 26:18
Yes
D
Darrell 26:19
you know, because I think without her being apart of my life, and she's five, I don't even
know if I'd be sitting here doing his interview or be in my right state of mind, because, I got
to constantly be responsible for her. You know food, water, shelter, you know, things like
things of that nature. I said I just got hired with employment but I mean. You know, coming
to like Street Voices you know some of the things they provide like blankets, you know,
meditate.
I
Isaac Tadé 27:02
yes,
D
Darrell 27:03
you know, so I incorporate those things when I'm going throughout my day once again. I
will go to the park, you know, just sit in and listen to the birds and sit around the water you
know, around nature. So it gave me that frame of mind, you know, where now it's like in
some shelters, you know they have more resources and where if you don't have health
care, if they found out I was eligible to receive some health loans, in order to get some
health care, you know, to be able to get, you know, my prescription medications, you
know. Check blood pressure, and stuff, you know, things of that nature. Which is,
awesome so I can be kinda monitor of those things. I'm not always doing it but you know, I
just keep going in today like "Oh, your blood pressure's high". I was wondering why I have
the headaches. Okay
I
Isaac Tadé 28:11
There it is.
D
Darrell 28:12
You know then that checklist hits, you know like, "Okay, I need to come get peace of
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mind." And sometimes I don't like being around a lot of people when I'm in that state of
mind and in a dark period but
I
Isaac Tadé 28:30
I understand that,
D
Darrell 28:30
but you know, health care's is very important you know for me to see my medication for
me to eat healthy, you know, fruits and vegetables. And then, and then the community
has been very active in it, you know, you know what, coming around, you know, offering
you know best fruits, vegetables, food, you know, so that's another thing. It's been, man it's
been beautiful. I help anyone along, that they are continuing to help in the community,
you know, to try to have basic needs of food, you know, stay healthier clothing, shoes, you
know. Yeah. Street Voices is like, again it's not one of those organizations who come here
to get clothes or shoes, hot meal a breakfast you know in morning people in meditation
you know a way to start a day
I
Isaac Tadé 29:29
Oh Ellen with that meditation, I love it. I absolutely love it. Yeah. So sound like you said,
you need stability, and within stability, are things that give you stability are. Well, your dog
Xena, eating right, spending some time in nature, and then getting your proper like health
care needs, but, yeah. Okay, excellent. I just wanted to run that back, make sure make sure
I got it. Okay so then, have you met the nurses at Central? Have you met the nurses here?
D
Darrell 30:03
Oh yes, they just checked my blood pressure. They had to check because I felt a little
dizzy and I know they get like that, it might be hot and I'm just wanting to know where it's
at.
I
Isaac Tadé 30:14
Right. Okay, so you've met the nurses, And is there any feedback you have for them.
D
Darrell 30:21
Yes, man. For the nurses that are on frontline you know they they put their lives, you know,
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they go out on a limb to still do what they do you know to to help people, I'm very grateful
for, for the nurses, you know that's even hearing in abroad you know to actually dealing
with all this in the beginning and still doing what they need to do to still serve the
homeless. Homeless people, even people that retired is coming out of retirement, nurses,
you know. To give their service and their professions, you know, and then their their advice
or suggestion, you know, we do need to see a doctor you know because we don't always
know without a professional, you know, to point that out, point out to us right.
I
Isaac Tadé 31:16
So you've had a good experience so far, it sounds like with the nurses here.
D
Darrell 31:19
Yes.
I
Isaac Tadé 31:20
Excellent, excellent. And then, do you have any feedback for, like, Health Commons,
Central in general? Is there anything that we're missing is there anything that we can do
better or improve on other services that we're lacking? Anything?
D
Darrell 31:37
Not, not, not that I know but I know for times that come, you know, my mental, physical,
spiritual needs, was, was has been met you.
I
Isaac Tadé 31:49
Excellent. That's what we want to hear. Amazing, thank you. Um, before we finish, is there
anything else you'd like to say before we're done today.
D
Darrell 31:59
I like to say, hey thanks for the interview and say, just continue to keep hope alive and you
know I was a little depressed when I come in, but I got joy, going out.
I
Isaac Tadé 32:18
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Good. Yes, good. I'm so happy to hear that, that makes my day. that makes my day. Well
that's it. This concludes our interview for today. Thank you so much for taking the time to
share your stories and insight with me.
D
Darrell 32:32
You're very welcome.
I
Isaac Tadé 32:33
Thank you so much.
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Show less
Aksana Muratalieva: Oral History 2021
Thu, 7/22 10:18AM
36:02
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
kyrgyzstan, heart, isaac, human, augsburg, god, lives, people, life, human beings, minneapolis, fact,
commons, suffering, began, health, reaches, continue, minnesota, pandemic
SPEAKERS
Isaac Tadé, Aksana M
... Show more
Aksana Muratalieva: Oral History 2021
Thu, 7/22 10:18AM
36:02
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
kyrgyzstan, heart, isaac, human, augsburg, god, lives, people, life, human beings, minneapolis, fact,
commons, suffering, began, health, reaches, continue, minnesota, pandemic
SPEAKERS
Isaac Tadé, Aksana M
I
Isaac Tadé 00:02
Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project for the Augsburg University
Central Health Commons. My name is Isaac Tadé. I'm a student intern with Augsburg
Central Health Commons. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording?
A
Aksana M
00:17
Thank you. My name is Aksana Muratalieva. And I am a native for Kyrgyzstan, born on
March 26 1973, in the capital city formerly known as Frunze, and currently Bishkek, which
is the capital of a beautiful, mountainous country of Kyrgyzstan.
I
Isaac Tadé 00:45
Okay, thank you. And before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to
being interviewed and having this interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be
used and available to the public.
A
Aksana M
00:59
I am absolutely honored and delighted to be a part of this auspicious opportunity, which is
with the Augsburg University Central Health Commons program. Thank you.
Aksana Muratalieva: Oral History 2021
Page 1 of 10
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I
Isaac Tadé 01:14
Thank you. Okay, let's get into it. So can you tell me where you grew up and who you call
family.
A
Aksana M
01:22
As I had mentioned earlier, I was born on March 26 1973, which makes me as of today of
48 years of age. I was born in my mother says I was born in a small village of shoberg at
the outskirts of my country, Kyrgyzstan. And in fact, I was born as a premature baby over
seven months old, whom doctors kind of proclaimed that I wouldn't survive, but here I am,
fourty eight years older. So and I grew up and matured, which means I got my high school
education then my university degree in English language and literature at the Kyrgyz
State National University in the capital city of Bishkek. So and then later at the age when
I was 27 years old, that makes it September 2000. That's when I got an admission to the
program in Human Resource Development at the University of Minnesota here in
Minneapolis. And my family, my mother Canalabou and my father Jyaumprsho. So they
are very senior age right now. My father is 79 years old and my mother is 69 years old. So
me and my son have just returned from our international trip to Kyrgyzstan, and stayed
there for two months. So my family are my mom and dad, they're in good health. Thank
you God. And I do have an older sister, Inyerha, two years older than I am then I'm the
second one. After me I have two younger brothers, Azad and Bauckut. One of them is up
here in the United States, lives this assembly in Burnsville, the state of Minnesota and my
younger brother Bauckut, who is 43 years old. Right now him and his family and children
they live in Bishkek Kyrgyzstan.
I
Isaac Tadé 03:40
Okay, thank you for sharing. Um, could you tell me about how you got involved with Street
Voices of Change?
A
Aksana M
03:49
All thank you I so I believe that it is truly a hand of Almighty God. I'm really beginning to
delve into is our Almighty creator. And every human being in fact, is created in his likeness
and image. So I am honored to have met a very distinguished gentleman. His name is
Paul and I met him about a week ago at the seven a.m daily mass, Monday through
Friday at the Basilica of St. Mary. And we began to speak about the social issues and he
wholeheartedly invited me to this remarkable meeting this morning, every Thursday at
8:30am with hot breakfast served, of the Street Voices of Change. And here I am a week
Aksana Muratalieva: Oral History 2021
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after the whole credit I owe entirely to of course God and he is using Paul as his mighty
and very active hand in bringing People whose hearts are on you know, painful with the,
you know, devastation the whole humanity of the earth is going through right now. So
God is using Paul and right now meeting remarkable gentle men Isaac yourself. And here I
am being interviewed for to the remains in the history of humanity.
I
Isaac Tadé 05:23
I'm so glad you're a part of this history. Thank you. And will you be coming back to Street
Voices of Change?
A
Aksana M
05:29
Absolutely.
I
Isaac Tadé 05:30
We will be seeing more of you at Health Commons?
A
Aksana M
05:32
Every meeting, I just will have to excuse myself because I just booked an airline ticket for
my 12 year old son and myself. So we are flying God willing, of course, this coming Sunday,
July 25. The 21, two from Minneapolis to Las Vegas, we are our family, the Deloris' and our
cousins, Robin and Jacquelene. Are patiently waiting on us to join and we all are going
camping. To lake Sacco and Yosemite Park and all those places. And after that, about two
weeks planned for, we will come back and this will be the first you know, breakfast
meeting, I will be jump right in from the airplane.
I
Isaac Tadé 06:20
Okay. Well, we'll be excited to see you back then. So to switch the topic a little bit, I'd like
to ask you, what did life look like for you before the pandemic, and what is different for
you now, because of COVID-19.
A
Aksana M
06:36
Thank you, Isaac, this is quite heavy for the heart. And for the mind subject. Speaking for
myself, I am the kind of person who does count the blessings. But then, last year, the
whole world turned upside down. We, including myself and my son, we have been locked
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in into a tight environment of our beautiful, of course blessed, you know, one bedroom
apartment with the windows overlooking, you know, the Basilica of St. Mary. But due to
strict guidelines, and, you know, desire to keep ourselves safe and good health, and our
neighbors we live on fifth floor of the historical building, right here in the heart of
Minneapolis. We had to you know, follow those two guidelines, which I truly understand
and support. So, then how lives that were around me, I mean, the human beings whom I
connected to, they just began to be taken the Coronavirus, was in a merciless began to
claim the illness began to claim the lives of the people next to us. And my heart is beating
in agony, agony as we speak. I am in fact, really blessed to be alive. And moreover, to be
in good health. So being a human being with breathing, you know, beating heart over
time, I think and meditate upon many, many things, and I questioned God. Why did you
keep me alive? And why are you keeping me alive? And I'm still trying to find the answer
to this question. I even checked out the books from the Central Public Library in
downtown Minneapolis about you know, God checked out a few books with the title is The
Mind of God, the mind of God and the purpose of life and I read a lot I am just fortunate
and I do know that my life is fragile as well. You know, I'm no different from anyone and
any moment you know any thing can stop me anytime and in my language in Kyrgyzstan,
we say that you know the extent and the illness they come uninvited. So my life personally
turned upside down. And if I'm still breathing and in this physical body, I believe that
Almighty God does have a purpose for me and this is when I began to really search the
answers for the purpose of my life. And then, you know, mighty God, I'm so grateful that
I'm alive right now. I mean, me and my son in terms of his COVID we were blessed to take
our trip to visit my father, and my mother and Kyrgyzstan we are back 10 days ago from
our two months, stay in Kyrgyzstan. And during this time, you know, I, as many 1000s, and
millions of fellow beings, I did lose my good job. My last job was a security I was the
security officer for the statewide protective agency was the headquarters in Brooklyn
center. And I had to, you know, let my job go. So for the concerns of COVID, because I'm a
single parent of a 12 year old, I was honestly afraid. So but then, you know, I'm so grateful
to the government of the United States to the government of the state of Minnesota and
the governor. So I had, I was forced by the circumstances of the income to apply for the
Minnesota unemployment insurance, for which I was instantly approved online. And, you
know, I'm so blessed, I was able to collect those benefits in home country of Kyrgyzstan,
we don't have the stimulus checks. We don't have the, you know, the unemployment
benefits. In fact, the government of Kyrgyzstan went on a vacation last year as of summer,
leaving the entire nation of 6 million people when or for their own survival. And I'm
eternally grateful, it puzzles me, you know, this whole worldwide pandemia. It makes me
think it makes me not to take my personal frivolously. And I want to be of help. And I want
to be hand of mighty God in helping, you know, and I believe this, the hand of God has
brought me to this program called Street Voices of Change.
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I
Isaac Tadé 12:33
Well, that's so beautiful, thank you for sharing your story, and for sharing your struggle
through the pandemic and the things that you saw during the pandemic, have obviously
impacted you deeply, and maybe even certainly on a spiritual level. And that, would you
say is how your outlook has been changed on life? You sound incredibly grateful.
A
Aksana M
13:00
I am, I am, I am. I am beyond the feeling the human feel sentimental feeling of
gratefulness. I am beyond grateful. And I am willing to find the answer why God is has
decided not willingly to give me because I do believe that the time that the piece of time
that we humans have really created was our rush is our try to catch up on things and
trying to collect the items. So my heart is in a different place right now. I don't anymore,
secure my, you know, my riches and the properties and in last year, I began to enjoy this
antique to a person do their China sets and the silver and the gold. I am blessed with all
everything that I own. But now my heart is not there. I my heart. You know, I stole my
church is in heaven. And, in fact, with the benefits that I was able to, I was generously
given by the government of the state of Minnesota. While my trip to Kyrgyzstan, I was
able to help my own family, as many believe millions of fellow immigrants are in the
United States. I did send money for money ground. And in fact, my family's doing
construction right now. So I was with those benefits, because the dollar value was the ratio
of $1 equaling 84 soms on the local currency. It stretches far. So I was I thank, the
government of the U.S you know, that money paid for the craftsmen that we have hired to
expand the property that we have in the countryside, close to the mountains closer to
nature, we're able to buy the construction materials we're able to buy the food, my mom
was cooking three times meals. And I was even able to use that money for charity,
because there's so much pain and suffering, you know, people in wheelchairs, people are
starving people hungry. So I was able to give the money from that, because currently, you
know, I'm not employed. And that's the fact. So yeah, it's, it's the fact. Thank you. Yeah,
I
Isaac Tadé 15:42
thank you for sharing. So moving on here in the summer of 2020, the movement against
systemic racism had Minneapolis at its Epicenter, with the murder of George Floyd, can
you describe your experience living in the Minneapolis St. Paul area during this time?
A
Aksana M
16:02
Thank you, Isaac. My 12 year old son, chemiluminescent, and myself, we resides in the
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heart of Minneapolis city, right at 230 Oak Grove Street and historical building on the fifth
floor. And we were we are in fact, we still reside there. Live in the epicenter. So first and
foremost, my heart in agony, and mourning goes out to reach the suffering and the agony
that the family of George Floyd has been going through and still going through. We all
entire humanity, are connected. And however much we try to, you know, resist on that the
whole humanity, we are one we are connected. So, in my heart, I express my very sincere,
deep condolences to the family of a fellow human being, George Floyd, who, due to the
unfortunate circumstances, you know, lost his life? And I have no answer for this because
I'm a mortal, sinful human being as everyone else. So is everyone in my family, and I have
no answer. why it happened? I have no answer as a human being as a mortal human
being why it had to happen. And my heart reaches is out to his family, to his parents, if
they're listening to this, go out to his, you know, loved ones, to those people who have
known him and loved him. And I believe that he is soul and spirit are in the place in
heaven where they say there is no suffering anymore. My heart at the same time, which is
out to the family of the policemen, you know, it happened, so, and his family is suffering
as well, he himseself is suffering. So, in fact, the whole humanity is suffering and we should
stop denying that it has happened to someone else it has happened. And it may happen
to any single one of us. No one is exempt of pain and suffering. Yeah. So, and during the
riots and everything, you know, which I understand. So, we people were also prior to that
locked up in four walls and you know, when we are being locked up and close environment
with not going outside. We have to release our energy and our energy, anger elsewhere.
And so it happened, you know, my heart is in pain right now. You know, I mean, it's right
now there's also reconstruction repairing going on, but I saw lots of burning and breaking
and you know, it's and I understand I connect to and I don't want to blame anyone for any
of the emotions which had to be poured out. And many times in destructive way because
we all are humans. Yeah. And I'm not an exempt to this. So I saw the troops being pulled in
the city. So the man my son was so anxious about this, he'll say, Mom, I'm looking at the
military man in uniforms and holding the guns and in my heart reaches out to those
soldier men who have their own families as well. And my heart reaches out to policemen
to nurses, and to the doctors who many of them have lost their lives and sacrifice their
lives and you know, expose themselves to the risk of the Coronavirus, who live on the fifth
floor. And there is no other day and night which go by where we don't hear the sirens. And
for me that every siren was an ear is the cry of entire humanity for help. Help Help. So we
need to stop closing our eyes and saying this is not my pain. No, because everyone driving
that, you know, the ambulance car, the police car, they have mothers, they have fathers,
they have children, they have wives, there have husbands who are you know, waiting on
them in their homes, and they may not come back. So every time you know, I will hear
that in my heart in my heart, I would cry and I'm still crying. That's why when they use this
body, this physical body and my mind to benefit if there's anything I can help with what I
am, so I'm here.
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I
Isaac Tadé 21:17
Yes. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Yeah, thank you for sharing all of that. I know, it was a very
tumultuous time, it continues to be a tumultuous time, some of the things that were
happening before just maybe exposed more. So I would ask you, I would like to ask you. If
there's anything else that you want people to know, or remember, like, let's say 30 years
from now, about your experience, or other people's experiences, who may not have
experienced homelessness during this time period. What would, what's your message to
send to them?
A
Aksana M
22:05
I'm 48 years old right now. 30 years, forward, forward. I'm God willing, I'm here and
working on my two feet. Hopefully, I don't know because, you know, I mean, every step
could be the last step. Every breath could be the last one. And in fact, this is the
worldwide pandamia which made me and still make the think on this because the Bible
says, tomorrow is not promised, as my next step is not promised as my next breath is as
promised, as my next eyesight is not promised. So reaching out to someone who would be
possibly maybe winning their ear to what I'm saying. I have actually tears filling up my
eyes right now. Remember, life, human life is sacred. The word of the of God the living
word of God, Holy Bible. Stay, stick to it. I'm trying to honor my every movement with the
precept each precept of the Word of God and hold the Bible. God says Be still and know
that I am God not as human beings. Do not rush, no point. Do not collect all this you know
worthless belongings. Um, I was reading a couple days ago Eclesiastes everything is
meaningless. While you're looking forward to it, collecting the treasures like materialistic
treasures, you know this that cars and the houses and belongings and the clothes when
I'm gone, I won't be able to take any one of this. Of dusty we come and to dust we shall
return. Yes. So I want the and I'm not an exception. I'm a mortal human being would
vanish physically from the face of this earth and life will continue going on. And there is a
saying in the punny shots. "There is a bridge between time and eternity. neither death nor
pain, nor day and night can cross that." And that bridge is the spirit of man. So hopefully
what I'm seeing right now in spirit will reach out the listening ear. So remember, human life
is sacred, and you're life does count. So, remember, blessings, do crown the head of the
righteous. So keep your head, your chin up. And when due to career or accomplishments,
even they are meaningless. They vanish as you know everything else in this life.
Remember, keep your feet on the ground, you may keep your dreams and ideas and
thoughts you know up, but when you're up there, always remember there is so much
suffering down there, keep your feet firmly on the ground and follow I would say obey the
commands the presets which are clearly depicted engraved in Holy Bible only. Thank you,
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I
Isaac Tadé 26:04
thank you. Thank you so much. Um, just a few final questions geared towards health what
would you say that you need for health as you define it
A
Aksana M
26:20
5000 years ago, Hippocrates who is considered to be the father of the medicine did did
say let your food medicine let thy foot wet their medicine lets your medicine be thy food.
So, physically we are what we eat. And in fact I have just shared the whole heartshaped
container. Of have a very healthy I would say you know, natural anti COVID anti
Coronavirus vaccine which has three of the most powerful God nature create ingredients.
The first ingredient is the raw ginger root which your grind you know, I did this this
morning I chose 6am in the morning grounded in the manual grinder took me a while.
Number two ingredient is raw honey and the honey I put was actually the mountains
honey of Kyrgyzstan my native land. Third ingredient was the limes. Fresh squeezed lime
juice. Every single one of them is a very important antiviral, anti infectious antibacterial,
antioxidant. And you can imagine the word those three together do so in the morning
empty stomach, one tablespoon full. And I myself eat ginger odors you know as bread. So,
yeah, nutrition is the bridge to good health, nutrition. And of course starts with rightful
and righteous thinking you are on a mental and psychological emotional level. You are
what you think you are. In fact your mind does shape your reality.
I
Isaac Tadé 28:30
Beautiful. So, so insightful. Everything that you have to say and, and I so appreciate your
your input on health. Continuing that. What would you what feedback would you have for
the staff here at Central health commons? I know this is only your first day here. But from
your experience so far, is there anything that we can work on? What could be better? Is
anything missing?
A
Aksana M
29:01
Thank you, Isaac. This morning, the mighty hand of God has brought me to be introduced
to this auspicious remarkable and unique program at Augsburg central health commons.
Forgive my ignorance I didn't know about this program and truly, you know learning to be
a medicine woman excited looking forward to know more in depth about your integrative
program and hopefully to be involved with your you know, current and forthcoming
projects. So as a fellow simple human being the you know, sensitive resident of the City of
Minneapolis I will be honored if there is any input of my experience, knowledge, I mean, I, I
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am a world wide traveler. So, I mean the cultural input the knowledge input, the
experiential, the historical the snake, I mean, I mean, I am well, I am, so I'll be very
fortunate, and they will consider that as unique and auspicious and one of a kind
opportunity to get to know more about your background isaac, about the background of
the people who run this program, and I am fully supportive of your health problems of the
Augsburg department, thank you, college.
I
Isaac Tadé 30:43
thank you, it's, we're so thankful that you're here. Is there anything else you'd like to say
before we finish today,
A
Aksana M
30:56
life is beautiful. Life is sacred. Life is a journey of mind, body, and spirit. And we, as human
beings, I truly, truly beginning to believe in my heart that God did create, every single one
of us down to the, you know, little piece of hair on top of our head, for His glory and
purpose. And if he did create us in his own likeness and image because there is no other
species on the face of the evolutionary Earth, and universe which resembles even tibbett
to the human being, I mean, we are so complex, we are the matrix of the feelings and
sentiments, emotions and the I mean, it's just phantasmagoric what the minds you know,
which are tuned in there, you know, creative magic and create the music and the
philosophy and the art and the science and oh my god, do we just do just Isaac, you know,
imagine we tune in our energy and our spirit and our entire essence to the to who we truly
are created to be. There is absolutely I mean, we are the human beings who are able to
launch this spaceships into this space into the universe to discover the Milky Ways and
the Galactus we are all same human beings who are able to communicate to each other
on a remote basis I mean about this you know, the mind speaking and this the hypnosis
and the Tilly kinetics, and oh, my God, and can you imagine that this this is all are all is in
sync? I mean, it's all like, in us, human beings, we just need to continue delving and then
you know, into our real the true the, you know, authentic the nature, oh my god, as every
human being we just don't realize that we are you know, I mean, we are creating let's but
in the image of God, but we should stop pretending that we are God because we are not.
As I said, let's get back to the, you know, what divine Holy Word of God says, All the Bible
Be still and know that I am God. So we have to humbly bore ourselves. You know, I'm not
saying no place also knowledge, but maybe this is the time even this coronavirus
pandemic is the design of the Almighty God so that we humans, you know, stop
pretending, being gods, although we are Almighty and handy, but our days are counted.
So, and it was this I take authority on behalf of mighty creature, give every fellow human
being on the face of the earth. You know, be blessed, and count your blessings. Because
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remember, every breeze every step, every you know, eye look, anything we hear anything
can come to an end can cease to exist any moment. And I'm not exempt I'm just a mortal
human being whose life physical life is fragile.
I
Isaac Tadé 34:29
extremely humbling. Thank you so much for your time. So that concludes our interview for
today. Again, thank you for taking the time to share your story, to share your perspective.
And, and and to give us a little sense of who you are and and who you are as a human in
this world. So thank you again.
A
Aksana M
34:50
Thank you Isaac so may you know this technology, you know, help us carry our tools and
the year vibrations and the you know, breath and the, you know, mode of our hearts
through the times through the space. Because there's the Upanishads of ancient Sanskrit
said that there is a bridge between time and eternity. Nothing can close the patient. It is
the spirit of man, which was ongoing, every human is gone, we will continue carrying the
message through the centuries into eternity. So, thank you, Isaac, Thank you for your time.
And I bow my head and my spirit and my entire essence in humbleness for you, to the
entire staff of the Augsburg central health Commons to the program the strength voices
of change to the entire humanity. Thank you taking the time and listening to mumbling of
a mere human being.
I
Isaac Tadé 36:00
Amen. Thank you.
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