Oral History with Yeunn Hee Yang, 2018
Tue, 3/9 1:31PM
22:53
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
commons, talk, items, health, guest, volunteers, katie, homeless, companionship, giving, helps,
outreach, met, augsburg, care, understand, experience, sit, practicum, noah
SPEAKERS
Samantha Gibson, Yuni Yang
... Show more
Oral History with Yeunn Hee Yang, 2018
Tue, 3/9 1:31PM
22:53
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
commons, talk, items, health, guest, volunteers, katie, homeless, companionship, giving, helps,
outreach, met, augsburg, care, understand, experience, sit, practicum, noah
SPEAKERS
Samantha Gibson, Yuni Yang
S
Samantha Gibson
00:02
Hello, my name is Samantha Gibson, and I'm in AmeriCorps VISTA who works at Health
Commons. Would you please introduce yourself for the recording?
Y
Yuni Yang 00:11
Yes, my name is a Yuni Yang, I'm a DNP FNP track in Augsburg University.
S
Samantha Gibson
00:23
Great, I'd like to reaffirm that you consented to the storage of this interview and the
transcript at the library at Augsburg, where it will be made available to the public.
Y
Yuni Yang 00:33
Yes.
S
Samantha Gibson
00:34
Thank you. All right, to get us started, could you please tell me a little bit about where you
grew up and who you called family?
Oral History with Yeunn Hee Yang, 2018
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Y
Yuni Yang 00:43
Where I grew up? I was born and raised in South Korea and I came to United States about
15 years ago. Um, my parents, um, still live in Korea, but, once- after I moved to America I
married. So I live with my husband, and my five years old son, and my mother in law and
my brother in law.
S
Samantha Gibson
01:18
Great, thank you. How did you end up at Augsburg?
Y
Yuni Yang 01:24
I was looking for a nurse practitioner program, and um, we're not- while I'm searching
program, I was very impressed about transcultural nursing here and different approach for
nursing and being a provider, such as the holistic care, transcultural, a lot of other
wisdoms from, um, different, um, like such as oriental wisdoms, not just the westernized
medical model. So, I started program here.
S
Samantha Gibson
02:10
And how did you become involved with the Health Commons?
Y
Yuni Yang 02:14
The past spring semester, I took a class that is politics of health care and also from the
practicum, our practicum hours, I picked the Health Commons because, um, the Health
Commons introduce, um, about homeless people. So I had opportunity to meet them, and
also the Health Commons, they have a different model of carrying people. So I- that’s why
I signed up
S
Samantha Gibson
02:53
And how well do you think your experience at Health Commons fit what with what you
were learning in that course?
Y
Yuni Yang 03:04
This is a great opportunity actually meet a real person, like a homeless person, and
engage with them and then, um, hear their stories and knowing about them as- through a
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real person. Like a personal experience engagement, rather than just reading books or
watching videos. So, there's a really live, really close interaction, you know, so, I wanted to
know how we can help like a marginalized, such as the homeless or low-income people, as
a nurse, how we can care them. So that actually helped me- to introduce me different
aspect of nursing care and the different approach to client as a nurse.
S
Samantha Gibson
04:01
So is there something that you feel you'll take forward from this experience in your nursing
practice?
Y
Yuni Yang 04:07
I wish so, um, I think so. Um, actually- the director, Katie, um, Clark, actually professor, and
she- she showed me a different model to approach the homeless people such as, um, not
just diagnosis or giving some basic education or screening, but more like understanding
them, being with them, how we can approach them, how we can build trust, relationship,
not just giving or just treating their medical problems but basic approaches understand
them more, get to know them more, before we diagnosis people, we educate. So it really
helped me understand the population, marginalized population.
S
Samantha Gibson
05:16
So, has this experience or how has this experience changed any biases that you may have
had about people experiencing homelessness or marginally housed individuals?
Y
Yuni Yang 05:35
Previously, I thought they are mainly just seeking resource, seeking materials, items, um,
some free stuff, but now it’s more understanding they’re more complex, understand about
their background, how they became a- homeless. There's many other different stories,
background, not they are just lazy or just- not a failure but just environmental hardness, or
suddenly losing jobs, some mental health. So, each person have their stories, became
homeless, we can’t just judge, they are homeless now. They are just rely on to materials,
free place to sleep, or free food. It's not like that. They do have their own story. So, we
really need to understand their story. Get to know them. That helps them to moving
forward, or the Health Commons gave, um, it’s more like a support system. Like, um,
companionship. This, I felt like, is not more like another someone is the higher, someone is
just receiving, or giving and receiving, not- not position, but it's more like a
companionship, friendship, so that helped. I’m sorry, I actually forgot the questions while
Oral History with Yeunn Hee Yang, 2018
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talking. I actually want to see the questions.
S
Samantha Gibson
07:10
Well you- you talked about people's individual situations and how those- everyone has a
unique situation. What strengths did you learn or hear from some of the people that you
met?
Y
Yuni Yang 07:35
One of their strengths, um, I think, their resilience. Most of them are walking and find a
place to sleep, find a place to eat. They don't mind walking. One of guests told me he
does not have any high blood pressure issue because he walks a lot to find a place to go.
But very cold weather, I was there through the February to- February, March, April, so it's
very cold outside, but they will prepare gloves, hats, and thick boots and clothing and
they- it’s hard, but they seems to not- not to mind about being cold or walking outside. So
this can be their strengths, how they survive when it’s a hard environment, cold weather.
In the- one of the- ah, actually from the outreach, Katie- Katie and I met Noah, and
maybe can be changed now, but Noah, who sleeps on the street through the winter and
the first place I found him, actually, he slept underneath the- the hotel building but it's the
back of the hotel in the parking lot, but he just slept- he put a tent underneath about heat
that vent so that caused, the heat is constantly going out from- from the building. So
actually the spot he found was very warm through the entire 24 hours. So, there is a smart,
he found a really good spot to survive with the cold winter night. So that is their strengths.
S
Samantha Gibson
09:32
So you also talked about, um, how Health Commons has a sense of companionship or
friendship. It's sort of a supportive environment. How would you suggest we can better
accompany people on their journey of health? So, whether that be by attitude or, for
example, having longer hours or adding more outreach services?
Y
Yuni Yang 09:56
Right, right. Um, I wish I do know about original setting in the church, rather than trailer,
because I can’t compare how large of space actually we had in the church Health
Commons before. Um, but inside the trailer Health Commons they had about, I will say
maybe four to five chairs and when I- is the first day when I went there, I met one guest.
He's asking about eyedrops but I couldn't find it, because it’s my first day, so I ask him
come inside and then sit while I'm finding items. So he came in, was sat in the chair, while I
Oral History with Yeunn Hee Yang, 2018
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am finding stuff. So while he is- while sitting, I am able to start talking. So, I see that many
guests just stop by, just standing in front of the door, asking some items, some volunteersthey handout items, they are walk away. But if we ask them to come in and have a sit
while we are finding items, then we can kind of host more, the welcome more, not just a
standing just kinda getting items, just ask them sit, and maybe coffee or something to
drink, and then we can talk to more. So I actually had two experience, two guest. I asked
each guest, actually, come inside Health Commons, ask them sit, that kind of the starting
point, I am able to talk longer conversation and then both- of both of them looked very
welcomed. If I asked them to come inside. So, I would suggest maybe a larger area and
then more chairs and then if the volunteers kind of, not just handing the items, ask them
to come on in, have a seat, it’s maybe not necessary talk too long, kind of, time period, but
at least just they- they are welcomed. Have a seat, something like that.
S
Samantha Gibson
12:10
So you mentioned moving back into a more permanent space. Do you have any other
hopes for that space?
Y
Yuni Yang 12:29
I think- I heard they have a foot care before they move to trailer. I think, it’s also this really
good continuing service -foot care- and some like- some lobby, or some place can just sit
and talk together. Yeah if we can organize more items, make it easy to find something to
hand it to them. That would help.
S
Samantha Gibson
13:01
So you said kind of the organization of the items, right, make it a little easier?
Y
Yuni Yang 13:06
Organize items, um, yeah it’s not necessarily kind of a making a note how many items to
give. Oh, actually that was a little bit confused, how many items I can give. Diaper, I
understand, 10. The socks, one pair. The others and the underwears and creams, lotions, I
kind of- I’m not sure how many I can give. But I understand, beginning, Katie explained it’s
all free stuff, there’s no judgment, no restriction, we can give how many they wants to get.
But if it can be organized a little bit, a bit quicker, to help them to find some stuff. But
actually, it’s disorganized, so, it helps me to ask a guest to sit. So, I think either way is fine,
but if there’s some more organized, labeled items, maybe the host work
Oral History with Yeunn Hee Yang, 2018
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S
Samantha Gibson
13:59
Were there other things that could have been easier or better for the volunteer
experience? Was scheduling easy?
Y
Yuni Yang 14:07
Scheduling was easy, um, because I'm able to go to calendar, then make a schedule, that
was easy. Uh, parking was hard to find it, but it was during the construction. Um, I actually
recommend if someone volunteer, maybe, at least two times a visit, it helps, it really helps.
The first time is kind of exploring, what this place, and the second time, get to know more
about other volunteers and guests, and then a little bit comfortable. Um, engage more,
and also maybe longer hours also will help if we really want to talk to the person people if
you want to talk or having a conversation longer hours would help, too.
S
Samantha Gibson
15:02
So you said that you were at Health Commons for a few months, right?
Y
Yuni Yang 15:07
Um, At least five or six times through the-
S
Samantha Gibson
15:10
During those months- So did you do that just for your practicum hours, or did you choose
to come back more than was required?
Y
Yuni Yang 15:18
During those months. Um, I didn’t remain here for practicum hours, I wanted to come back,
once we moved to- back to the church, um, kind of knowing about more space and also,
spending more time to understanding them, and, um, yes.
S
Samantha Gibson
15:39
What do you think you gained being there over a longer period of time that someone who
only comes once might not realize or might not have had the opportunity to do?
Yuni Yang 15:57
Oral History with Yeunn Hee Yang, 2018
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Y
Yuni Yang 15:57
I do have a more- I- I- I've seen more what other volunteers what they're doing and or so, I
kind of understand Katie's role or so, not just handing out on some items, but outreach or
so. And also, um, dynamics ifone concern arose, such as Noah’s case, kind of, some- somesome questions or problems arose: how we can solve problems together, such as other
volunteers or so, um, understand about what's going on some particular guest, what is the
particular concerns? So, we can gathering together talk to know, so I kind of understand
the more other issues, not just seeing guests one time, just giving some items. So, I dowould see more dynamics, if you come more, and the more broad role about the Health
Commons.
S
Samantha Gibson
17:02
How might your experience apply to another type of work setting a hospital setting or
wherever else you work?
Y
Yuni Yang 17:17
I'm working in primary care setting right now as a triage nurse, then on the back to the
beginning about each one has story, background. That really helps me, not kind of
judging client or patient with what they are now. So, and also trying to understand more,
and also the future practice, how we can open the door to the community, how we can
combine with community. Not just like the current model, model about provider and
patient, how we can more engaging with community. Maybe start is, maybe small,
maybe- maybe footcare, the beginning, but it's probably the future have a more care
added outreach, um, mental health, the other resource connection. So it's hard to see
right now but it's a beginning with the core- core concept, the Health Commons about
building relationship, building trust relationship, companionship, friendship. That can
apply any other my practice in the future, because those concept we are missing, we
can't- we can’t apply with the current medical system, um, very busy and then we have to
make, um, money, profit, everything we have to do it, but this is a totally different
concept. But we can apply in any community, any care setting, any population, starting
this basic concept hospitality, build interest relationships. So, I think I can apply many
other practice in the future.
S
Samantha Gibson
19:14
You talked a little bit about some of the people that you interacted with, but is there a
specific story that you could share from your experience at Health Commons that really
stuck with you?
Oral History with Yeunn Hee Yang, 2018
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Y
Yuni Yang 19:37
Maybe two things come in mind, first one is, um, I- I already introduced kind of how I can
started talking with one of the homeless people, then once they are- they are really- theythe two person I engaged, they like to talk. They want to talk, um, not just, well, I have to
writing a paper with this practicum, but I try not too much interviewing someone, but just
being with them, just to sit next by, just talking about their life, their family, what they like
to eat. Um, and then, what is the future? Even, people think they maybe don't have a
future, but I found someone had, um, still working three- three different jobs and having
hope about the future, um, kind of building a relationship with family or go back to family.
So just being with them, present, and just to sit next by and talk to them, sharing about
time, just giving time, is really precious. Um, hopefully, we- each one has their life journey. I
have my life journey, the person, the homeless person over there, he's on life journey, but
we met one moment and then sharing the journey and get close. I only have just one
experience. I mean, one time talking but I do see Katie actually build up more relationship,
longer relationship. That really helps someone's life. And I wish I could do that. But there is
two moment I sat about over 30 minutes and then talking about each of ours life, that
really stuck me. I had a really great experience.
S
Samantha Gibson
21:40
Is there anything else you'd like to talk about anything we didn't ask about?
Y
Yuni Yang 21:51
I would say, every volunteers there have really same kind of mind, same attitude. I'm
surprised. Each one is very open and very supportive, really nonjudgmental, and, um, just
everyone I met there is- even though all different background- they are there for the same
goal, kinda of. We are here to not just a serve you, we are here to be with you. So, that is,
I'm really surprised and then I really enjoyed actually talking with other volunteers too, not
just guests. I mean guest, I really enjoy the time together. So, it's really good place to kind
of the meeting, not only- not for the guest, but other volunteers and the experience of
what their heart is, so.
S
Samantha Gibson
22:45
Great, great. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for being here with me.
Y
Yuni Yang 22:50
Oral History with Yeunn Hee Yang, 2018
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Thank you
Oral History with Yeunn Hee Yang, 2018
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Show less
Oral History Interview with Mercedes
Ramsey, 2018
Tue, 3/9 12:43PM
33:29
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
commons, called, people, point, ramsey, health, housing, minneapolis, stayed, women, bus,
drinking, group, area, job, infection, hygiene kit, church, apartment, real
SPEAKERS
Samantha Gibson, Merc... Show more
Oral History Interview with Mercedes
Ramsey, 2018
Tue, 3/9 12:43PM
33:29
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
commons, called, people, point, ramsey, health, housing, minneapolis, stayed, women, bus,
drinking, group, area, job, infection, hygiene kit, church, apartment, real
SPEAKERS
Samantha Gibson, Mercedes Ramsey
S
Samantha Gibson
00:02
Hello, my name is Samantha Gibson. I'm an AmeriCorps VISTA newly working at health
Commons. And here today to do this oral history. Could you please introduce yourself for
the recording?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 00:11
My name is Mercedes Ramsey and I live downtown Minneapolis.
S
Samantha Gibson
00:21
Thank you for joining me today for the oral history project. Before we begin, I just want to
confirm that you consented to being interviewed and having that interview recording
stored at Augsburg which will make it available to the public.
M
Mercedes Ramsey 00:32
Okay.
Samantha Gibson
00:34
Oral History Interview with Mercedes Ramsey,
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S
Samantha Gibson
00:34
I also would like to note for the recording that we are at Health Commons right now. So
there may be some background noise as people are walking through. Exactly. To get us
started. Could you tell me a little bit about where you grew up and who you called family?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 00:54
I grew up in Detroit, Michigan um, raised by my father who's born in Mexico City. I have
five brothers no sisters. Went to school, grade school, junior high, high school, did a little
college for data entry for two years. Basically I call my family my dad and my brothers.
S
Samantha Gibson
01:30
When you went to school, were you still in Michigan?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 01:34
Yeah.How old was I?
S
Samantha Gibson
01:37
Well, when did you come to Minnesota?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 01:38
I came to Minnesota 1983. I was on my way to make it short, my story. I was on my way to
San Francisco, California. My dad started a greenhouse landscaping business, so he sold
the house and everything. My brothers and him flew, at that time I was not getting on no
plane. So I took the Greyhound. Well, the bus had to stop here for two hours, something's
wrong with the bus, so they had to switch buses. So, me being nosy and curious I noticed
you guys had skyways. At that time, I called it a tunnel. So I got curious and I ended up all
the way down by the main post office here in Minneapolis and I got lost. Fortunately, I ran
into an elder couple because they have different high rises apartments near the post
office. So I asked them how to get back to the Greyhound bus station and they- I got
back there and missed my bus. I had to call my Dad. Of course, he hollered at me in
Spanish, you know asking me why you always be doing this. Why why why. So, he sent me
some money for at that time where the Greyhound bus station is now is where the old one
used to be and across the street was the Best Western Motel. So I went over there and he
sent money over there, I stayed there for about a week. Of course he kept calling me,
Oral History Interview with Mercedes Ramsey,
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asking me when I was gonna come to San Francisco. Well, I got to where I had applied for
a housekeeping job at Best Western. One of the housekeepers told me about it because I
told her about my situation. So, and then she told me where the new jail is downtown
used to be the old welfare building so I went down there and I spent from the time they
open to at least two- three o'clock in the afternoon, trying to get help. Eventually they
gave me a county voucher to go to the Drake hotel, which used to house chronic alcoholic
men. And then one side was a shelter for men and women and a few families. So, did all
that and got my first apartment on 27th and Garfield. At that time, my apartment was a
one bedroom, paid $500 a month plus utilities, it got to a point where I was working
different temps like Masterson, Atlas staffing, different ones within Minneapolis. I got a
permanent job at old Dutch potato chips, then it went to Target warehouse out in Fridley.
Let's see, got in to a relationship with somebody, it didn't work out too well. So I more
ventured, and uh stayed in at the Simpsons, we had to go down there and at that time
they only let a few women stay. Went down there on Mondays did a lottery. They called
your name like Bingo, and you got a bed, they gave you a mat, blanket, pillow, sheets. At
that time they didn't have a women's shelter. So I took what I did, living, working,
struggling at times and it got to a point where I was using marijuana, I was drinking
alcohol. I was- that first three years I was sniffing cocaine. It got to a real bad habit and I
think, what, I just more went cold turkey with cocaine. Um, and then during that time from
83 to I say about 90 I went back and forth to home. I find eventually made it to San
Francisco. My dad wanted me to stay there, but they didn't have much resources like they
do here in Minnesota. Any other state I stayed like California, Texas, New York, Florida,
Michigan basically helps families that have children, very few resources for single people.
The last time I came back was in 96. I left in 91 about 91, 92. I was pregnant. My daughter’s
dad is from here. Went back home. Did my pregnancy. My daughter was born in 93. As she
got older, I say about six, seven, I asked if she wanted to come with me back to Minnesota.
At that time, my dad taught her Spanish, everything, she grew up not, how could you not
always eat fast food and she, um, he wouldn't give her that. So as she got older she was
vegetarian. Okay. Um, I came back here like I said cause of the different resources and
that. Eventually, my son came here because of the fact that he wasn't getting along with
this step mom. So he came here. He started school over North but him being 15, he was
already six foot. So I had problems with parents and children over North High because of
the fact that him being so hot being so tall, and more like solid chest, they thought he was
a grown man. So there is a few, um, few students would pick on him and cause a fight. So I
asked my welfare worker, because at that time I got on welfare. But, um, this was before
the EBT card came out. No, it just came out so she suggested with him. Um, I started him
at Southwest High here in Minneapolis and they had a life skills program. I don't know if
they still have that there now but it helped him get into doing working skills, the group
would go to different parks within the city, redo them, remodel them and stuff. It got to
where he got a little job at the VA and he liked that because he's helping the elders and
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he liked hearing the stories from the elder men. It got to a point where he hanging out
with the wrong type of boys, he got in trouble when Mall of America first opened. Him and
his little group of friends took the express bus out there. Excuse me. Instead of trying to
ride the bus back, someone dared him to hotwire an Expedition. So he did it, trying to
show his, you know, friends that you know I'm not scared I'll do you know whatever. Well
at that time I'm working 12 hour shifts at a temp service. So I get this call. Ah, yes, this is
Hennepin County Sheriff's Department, we have your son here at the juvenile detention
center. As I put him on the phone, he's like, you gonna come and get me? I said no, I’m at
work and -excuse my French- who the hell told you to steal the truck? Well, they dared
me. So if they dared you to jump off the Hennepin Ave bridge into the Mississippi would
you do it? He int say nothing. All he kept saying is you gonna come and get me. And I told
him no, you did the crime, now you're going to do time so of course he called me all kinds
of names. I'm not a good mom, moms wouldn't leave their sons in jail and I just- I hung up.
Of course, the Sheriff Department called me back and said that I could come and get him
in the morning. Sorry. So, of course I had to go to family court and all that. In 99, I sent
him back home because his dad needed to, he needed to be more with his dad and then
him being growing like a weed, he just- he would disrespect me at times. So it got to a
point that I sent him back home. I went on with my life, did what I did. Working, staying at
Simpson’s women's shelter, which they opened over on 11th and 19th off of Franklin behind
the bakery that’s on Franklin now. After five o'clock, we would, um, it would become the
shelter for the women in the church which is called Community Emergency Services. So, I
stayed there off and on, um, got into a relationship again, it didn't work. I got to a point
where, oh, what I reached in my early 40s and it came to a point then in my life, I need to
stop drinking, I need to stop doing the things I was doing, um, I had an apartment over on
27th and Columbus Avenue, not too far from Abbott hospital. I got put in the hospital
cause I got an infection on my left arm real bad and being diabetic, um, the infection got
real, real close. I had been drinking, bumped my elbow on the corner of my glass table
and a couple days later, my housing advocate came to visit me and, she's like, Mercedes,
what’s with your arm? And here that infection kept going up and going up and with my
heart murmur, she took me to Hennepin County Emergency Room and they took me right
into the, um, into the surgery room. I had five surgeries on my left arm because of the
infection was so bad that they had to put a blood vac to try to- to try to pull it out, but
that wasn't working as fast as they wanted it to. So they put me in this chamber looking
thing. I had to wear this mask. You know how, how airplanes, they go way up and they
have to wear that mask? Well, my first try, she said, just be calm, relax, she’s like, I can put
some music on for you. I said, no, that's fine. She put that mask over my face and she's
like, now, just breathe normal, she said, you'll- you'll feel- you'll feel the air kind of getting
lighter and lighter. And when that was happening, I just like panicked, and I'm like, I can’t
breathe! Get me out of here! She's like, calm down! Calm down! You can’t get all hysterical
like this! They had to sedate me so they could get that infection out. Other than that,
Oral History Interview with Mercedes Ramsey,
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there would have had a problem with me all the time. Um, it got to a point my housing
advocate was worried about my- my safety where I was at. I had just went to a- excuse
me. I had just went to a social security hearing because my disabilities. I have rheumatoid
and osteoporosis real bad in my legs, my arms, and my lower back. So, went to the
hearing, I kept getting up, and the judge kept saying, you know, Miss Ramsey what's
wrong? And I said, I can't sit too long, I gotta get up and move, I says, or else I just have
this pain. So he told the little recorder, you know, record, that, you know, Miss Ramsey’s
getting up, walking around, blah blah blah. So of course the social security guys that tries
finding- looking a job that's more suitable for your needs and not, he told the judge, well
she can't sit no more than longer than 15, 20 minutes or stand that long, or even on an
eight hour job cause she's so used to work in light industrial, it's gonna be hard for her. So
the judge says, well, Miss Ramsey, is there like a desk job, you can do? And the guy goes,
well then she still gonna have to get up and walk around and stuff, you know. So it came
to the point, two weeks later, not even two weeks, I got accepted for my disability. In the
meantime, my housing advocate’s looking for something more safe for me and she came
upon Anne’s, one of Anne’s property. Anne is a housing service here within Minneapolis
and they have properties in Chaska, Chanhassen, all within St. Paul/Minneapolis suburbs.
Well, we were- she was telling me about the Continental. And I was like, well, let's go there.
So, the management at the time showed me a unit, and , you know, the common areas,
things like that and got to a point I moved in February, 3, 2011, and I'm still there. I went
through a real hard thing the beginning of my year because I had one big high they called
it one big drinking episode. It got to a point that I don't even remember how I got in my
unit or what happened. All I know is, management came to my room and said that if I
don't stop my drinking I'm jeopardizing my housing. So I went cold turkey that whole year.
It was hard, cause, to this day, I still see the people that I drink and they're suffering out
there. I've had three associates, can't really say friends because I just see them around
Minneapolis, die, frozed, um, but since the Continental, I've been to three neighborNeighborworks of America Leadership Conferences, I'm a participant resident of our
Resident Planning Committee, where we make, um, where we get like different activities
within the residents in the building. We went through construction, not too long ago. So
everybody has their own little kitchen area, two electric stove, um, one of them
convention ovens, the little tiny little ovens and it came with a cart. Um, what else. And of
course, you got some that dislike me and some like me. There's some that, I guess, kind of,
how can you say, jealous because of the fact that I'm doing good within my life and doing
stuff within the community and that and, it's just, you know, people that wanna see you
down like them. But also, you wanna, you wanna build yourself and be better instead of,
you know, being out here in the- in the city here, you know, no housing, you know, on
drugs, things like that. Well, it got to a point where my health and my housing is more
important than any alcohol or anything else. Um, so like I said, I've been there since 2011,
and I'm in the verge of moving. With all this- with all the new residents in our building, and
Oral History Interview with Mercedes Ramsey,
Page2018
5 of 10
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
the county started this, um, GRH. It's a group residential housing and we've got a lot of
new ones and don't want to obey the rules and sneaking people in and drinking and
smoking and, um. Back here in January, early January, Maryland apartments who are also
owned by Anne, um, I signed up for a one bedroom wait on their waiting list. I was number
nine a couple months ago, now I'm number four, and then just last week management
called me and told me I'm next, I’m moving out. So god is good, I am thankful for him. I
may not had him in my life like he wants me to, but it came to a point that he's the only
man in my life that provides with my housing, clothes on my back, food in my tummy, and
safety and I thank him every morning when I wake up. And I'm not trying to tear up, so.
But that's a little part of my life.
S
Samantha Gibson
21:33
Thank you for sharing.
M
Mercedes Ramsey 21:35
You're welcome.
S
Samantha Gibson
21:36
You've mentioned coming a really long way and how involved you are now. That's really
amazing. And you, you mentioned all the resources that are available in Minnesota that
help you make things work.
M
Mercedes Ramsey 21:50
Yeah.
S
Samantha Gibson
21:50
How does Health Commons fit into that? Do you remember how you found out about
Health Commons? Your first time coming?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 21:56
Um, Health Commons, why, I used to come to the church in the 80s, when they had their
clothing room. And it used to be in the old church which is now part torn down, um, they
used to have it in the- in the lower auditorium. Huge big room. And, one of my elder
friends, um, can I say her name? Well, anyways, one of my elder friends, Joyce, she told me
Oral History Interview with Mercedes Ramsey,
Page2018
6 of 10
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
about Health Commons and how on Thursdays, they were doing women's group. And she
said, yeah, we have little snacks, and do little activities, and blah blah blah, she’s like, you
should come! I was like, well, ain’t it for elder ladies? She’s, no, no! Any age, you can come.
So I went one time and Katie and two other ladies from Augsburg were there, they're more
up age ladies. I enjoyed it. We did, uh, we did a little writing, we did, uh, what is it,
charades, we did other little games, but got to a point because the women's group was in
the Health Commons area and the guys would come in there and we'd have to say, no,
you know, this is only for women, and of course you get some men like, bleh! Why all the
women get to do stuff! But, um, I enjoyed Thursdays. I'd like to- I'd like to come. We, the
two ladies that were running it. We got to a point, um, they took a picture of the group,
unfortunately I wasn’t there, I was sick at the time. But, I mean every Thursday I was like,
oh, I can't wait till Thursday go there, you know, meet people, do little activity. I even got
to the point when I was go to the clothing line first and then go to a women's group, I
would see different women and say, hey, you know, we got a women's group over here
and lah lah lah. And, some would come, of course, and, you know, stay for a while and
then leave. But we had a real nice group at one time. I think it's cause, um, the ladies that
were hosting it, um, they, some found out that they had, um, tokens. So of course they'd
come and say, oh, I need token for this and blah blah blah, and then they’d leave, and
then you wouldn't see them for a while, um. It got to where the two ladies that would run
it, Joyce would take over. You know, set up, put out the snacks, you know, make coffee,
things like that. So I enjoyed that. But Health Commons, um, I went in there, grabbed me a
hygiene kit. And uh, what was it, times I would go in there for cough drops, or, you know,
underclothing, socks, and I liked- I liked it. There was one year, they did their 20th
anniversary, and I did a video for them. Well, me and two other people on how we came
about, how with Health Commons, and I told them that, if it wasn't for them, I think the
homeless population that's out here now, I don't think, because some don't- may not have
insurance, some do but don't wanna sit in a waiting room all day or, you know, clinic, so
they could come to the Health Commons and get their feet soaked, get hygiene stuff, get
things that they need and give Katie a hug, and Martha pass out candy. So. Health
Commons is good- is good for- within the downtown Minneapolis area.
S
Samantha Gibson
26:25
So like you're mentioning now, how Health Commons might compare to other clinics and
like you mentioned before, your experience having to be in the hospital and get multiple
surgeries, can you tell me about how the nursing care you receive at Health Commons
compares to care you get elsewhere?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 26:44
Oral History Interview with Mercedes Ramsey,
Page2018
7 of 10
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Well, Commons, it's not like- like you would go to your regular clinic. You can't go to your
regular clinic and get hygiene kit or socks or undergarments or, um, little basic things like
cough drops or vitamins or something. Um, Katie and her crew don't pass out, you know,
narcotic drugs or anything like that. They also help the women who have children, with
the diapers, the baby wipes, maybe sometimes the little ones will get socks too, or training
panties and things like that. Like I’ve said, your primary clinic, it won't do that. Maybe
sometimes you'll get a cup of coffee or something.
S
Samantha Gibson
27:47
And the things that initially brought you to health Commons, what keeps you coming
now?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 27:52
Yeah. And uh, well, due to construction, we're stuck out here in a trailer, but I think if we
were in our new, eventually get to our new spot, we'll have more room and like I said, I like
coming cause, you know, Katie, Martha, all of them. I like to meet the new nurses who
come and volunteer and just see the faces that come up in here and, you know, grab
things that they need, coats, pants, t-shirts, dresses, household items. I believe if you get
into a new place, you can bring your lease, you know, they'll help you with the welcome
basket with cleaning stuff maybe they'll at times have the brooms and mops, but you get
a welcome basket.
S
Samantha Gibson
28:48
Do you have any other hopes for the new space?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 28:57
I would say, I know once it's done, it's going to have more people coming in because we'll
have more room and everything will be on one floor, you won't have to go down the
basement and things like that. So I'm looking forward to the new church.
S
Samantha Gibson
29:22
Is there anything else that could be done better at Health Commons?
Mercedes Ramsey 29:26
Oral History Interview with Mercedes Ramsey,
Page2018
8 of 10
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
M
Mercedes Ramsey 29:26
Um, maybe, once they get into the new church and that, just make it more welcoming.
And why I say that is, um, you know, there being- there's a lot of new people coming in the
cities and some don't even know about the Health Commons. So when people come in
and that, be greeted and let them know this is- this is being served here and you can get
this and if they don't have it, they can refer you to another place. I also would like to see,
since we're out here in the trailer, and we have a resource room, I also like to see that
resource room be there too.
S
Samantha Gibson
30:26
What challenges do you think people in the community encounter when they're trying to
get healthcare?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 30:33
I think it’s cause insurance. And some can get it, others can't. But I think once you get that
insurance and that, you should be able to have the opportunity to get to whatever you
need done. Eyes, eye glasses, you know, take care of your health and that, um, because
we don't know how long we’ll have this Minnesota health or whatever. Thanks to your
lovely president.
S
Samantha Gibson
31:07
Is there anything you think nurses should know? When taking care of people who may be
experiencing homelessness? Or who are marginally housed?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 31:16
That's kind of hard because you don’t- when they come, you don't know who's homeless
or who has a house and that. I know Katie and them used to talk to people, you know, ask
them, are you in a shelter? Do you have a home? You know, things like that. But I think all
of us go through some type of challenge, challenge of waking up, facing a new day,
deciding oh, what am I going to do today? Do I go to Central Lutheran and have lunch,
grab me some goodies or somebody out there looking for a job or or housing, but it's a
struggle every day.
S
Samantha Gibson
32:17
Oral History Interview with Mercedes Ramsey,
Page2018
9 of 10
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Is there anything else you'd like to talk about that? I didn't ask?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 32:22
No.
S
Samantha Gibson
32:24
Any final comments about Health Commons?
M
Mercedes Ramsey 32:29
That I hope that when I turn 80, 90 years old you guys are still here. Oh, and I forgot. Foot
soaks. Everybody, everybody, well, I can't talk- I should listen to my own advice. You know
I love the foot soaks, the way they take care of your feet and that, I'd like to see more of
that. Maybe one area, when we get into the new church, be one area set for foot soaks,
with another area done for you know like the hygiene kits and diapers and all that.
Something like they had over before the church went under construction, but more more
of a space now.
S
Samantha Gibson
33:23
Thank you.
M
Mercedes Ramsey 33:24
You're welcome.
S
Samantha Gibson
33:25
For talking with me today.
Oral History Interview with Mercedes Ramsey,
Page 2018
10 of 10
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Oral history with Lisa VanGetson
Tue, 3/9 3:17PM
17:19
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, nursing, dnp, nursing faculty, students, healthcare, family nurse practitioner, program,
patients, department, university, faculty, teresa, college, integrative, grow, deep, holistic, practices,
clinical
S... Show more
Oral history with Lisa VanGetson
Tue, 3/9 3:17PM
17:19
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, nursing, dnp, nursing faculty, students, healthcare, family nurse practitioner, program,
patients, department, university, faculty, teresa, college, integrative, grow, deep, holistic, practices,
clinical
SPEAKERS
Lisa VanGetson, Joyce Miller
J
Joyce Miller 00:02
Thank you for joining me today for this oral history project on the Department of nursing
for Augsburg University. My name is Joyce Miller and I am the Chair of the Nursing
Department. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording? And tell us what your
position is at Augsburg University.
L
Lisa VanGetson 00:23
Thank you, Joyce. I am Dr. Lisa VanGetson. I am in as assistant professor and program
director of the doctorate of nursing practice in family nurse practitioner program here at
Augsburg University.
J
Joyce Miller 00:38
Great. Before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to be to being
interviewed and to have that interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made
available to the public.
L
Lisa VanGetson 00:52
Yes, I agree.
Oral history with Lisa VanGetson
Page 1 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
J
Joyce Miller 00:53
All right. Well, good. Let's begin. Can you tell me where you grew up and who you call
family?
L
Lisa VanGetson 01:00
Sure. I grew up in Midwestern Illinois with my parents. My mother was half Cherokee is half
Cherokee Indian. Her both of her parents were native. In I have four siblings.
J
Joyce Miller 01:15
Awesome, awesome. What led you to the nursing profession?
L
Lisa VanGetson 01:20
I felt called by God when I was in high school to care for sick people. The interesting thing
was that none of us in our family were ever sick. So I'm not quite sure, like I blame God for
this one. And I wanted to attend a girl's Catholic college because I was interested in the
Franciscan vocation. And while I was in high school, the Sisters of St. Francis from the
College of St. Teresa in Winona, Minnesota came in scouted me at a basketball
tournament and offered me a two year basketball scholarship to St. Teresa's.
J
Joyce Miller 01:59
I love it. So you play basketball at went on to state that are at St. Teresa.
L
Lisa VanGetson 02:04
Yes.
J
Joyce Miller 02:06
That's awesome. I didn't know that about. So can you tell for me or describe your
educational background?
L
Lisa VanGetson 02:15
In 1982, I graduated with my BSN from the College of St. Teresa in Winonna. And following
my graduation, I promised God that I would never attend any more college. So I began
Oral history with Lisa VanGetson
Page 2 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
my nursing career at St. Mary's Hospital at Mayo Clinic Rochester. My career had a deep
focus on cardiovascular surgery, spending the next 26 years working in a pediatric adult
cardiovascular transplant intensive care unit is a bedside rn. And then later, 10 years later,
actually, as an family nurse practitioner in this in that same department, I grew deeply
passionate about hospital clinical ethics and spirituality in health care. Following a Native
American vision quest, I was led to the College of St. Catherine in St. Paul, and enrolled in
graduated in 1995 and receiving a master's degree in theology and spirituality. I continued
to work at St. Mary's in the ICU in in 1997, I was led to study clinical ethics at the University
of Chicago as a paid fellow at the McLean Center for Clinical ethics. In 2002, I attended
Winona State University and obtained my family nurse practitioner certification. In 2007. I
obtained academic rank at Mayo Clinic College of Medicine as an instructor in
Biomedical Ethics. In 2010, I was led by God once again to Augsburg College, to complete
my terminal degree in the DNP TCN program.
J
Joyce Miller 03:59
Well, so that's how you really ended up at Augsburg or how, how did you discover
Augsburg university?
L
Lisa VanGetson 04:07
Well, I had applied to a DNP program at the University of Minnesota. And hey, I had
delayed my admission. And one day while driving to Minneapolis, one of my nursing
colleagues called in said listen to the name of this course. And she shared with me the
name of this course in a DNP program. I said, Well, where's that from? And she said, It's
from Augsburg College. And I said, Well, where's that at? And she said, Well, they have an
educational site in Rochester, and I think the four of us should all go to DNP school
together. And I said, Okay, well, what do I do next? And she said, Well, I know it's Friday
afternoon at three o'clock, but you need to call Dr. Sue Nash and set up an appointment
for all four of us on Monday at four o'clock. I said, Okay, I'm quite sure that'll work. So I
dialed up Sue Nash, scheduled us all an appointment The weekend we spent updating our
CBS and we we were admitted into the program Three days later.
J
Joyce Miller 05:07
I remember that day. I remember the data as soon as I shared that for you walked in. So
what then inspired you to want to teach?
L
Lisa VanGetson 05:21
Oral history with Lisa VanGetson
Page 3 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Well, my first academic teaching position was actually 1999, where I taught applied in
clinical ethics in a philosophy department and then later, I taught cardiovascular nursing
in the nursing department. I have always taught in academia and also had a clinical
practice. When I was obtaining my DNP. At Augsburg, I was very inspired by the nursing
faculty. And after our first class, I turned to my four colleagues and said, If I ever teach in
academia, again, it is going to be with this nursing faculty. Why they said, I said well,
because they really have a wide angle perspective, into a health care in nursing and
understanding this transcultural perspective. Of course, as a Native American woman, I
really resonated with that and I connected with how Augsburg provided students with a
variety of practical experiences in the work of trans cultural and holistic nursing. So I
suddenly became inspired again, to integrate clinical practice with academia and
became part of Augsburg's nursing faculty in 2011. So in 2013, I was asked to join the
Augsburg nursing faculty in a meeting to dream and create a additional track in their
DNP program as an FNP. I agreed, as long as we could dream and discuss about having
an FNP track which integrated trans cultural, holistic and Integrative Health. Following
that meeting, Dr. Cheryl Leuning and I began to play in the program, which included
developing the entire curriculum, hiring and mentoring new nursing faculty finding clinical
sites for students in interviewing the first class of students. We began the program was
two faculty and seven students. Today we have over 12 faculty and about 78 DNP FNP
students.
J
Joyce Miller 07:35
Wow, How the program has grown over the last how many years? Incredible. So how
many years then Have you been at Augsburg?
L
Lisa VanGetson 07:44
Totally, I've been teaching at Augsburg since 2011, which I started in the BSN program. And
then in 2013, I entered teaching in the doctorate program.
J
Joyce Miller 07:56
So what courses do you primarily teach at Augsburg?
L
Lisa VanGetson 08:00
I teach classes throughout the DNP FNP program. I am the lead faculty on the seminar
classes in for one of the practices that we take students to Oaxaca Mexico. And I am also
quite passionate about one of the DNP courses on cosmology in in nursing, where we
Oral history with Lisa VanGetson
Page 4 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
actually begin to challenge our students to look at who they are as healers, and how as
nursing, how we help students begin to understand how health is connected to the care of
the earth and how we are connected with the care of the earth and how in order to to be
part of creating wellness and health we need to recognize that we are one with the earth.
J
Joyce Miller 08:52
Sounds like a great class. So what has been your most memorable teaching experience?
L
Lisa VanGetson 09:00
I'm most inspired by how students will enter our program through what they may call a
vocational call, or called by spirit, to be in our particular program. I'm inspired that I too
have been called to be among students who journey through our vigorous program into a
new life of fulfilling this call, which helps them to understand how their prayers have been
answered. It is in this deep way of knowing that I have always believed since the
beginning of this DNP FNP program that God has grown this program into being we have
been sent excellent FNP clinicians who have grown into their new roles in academia, who
have been clinicians for many years and share their years of clinical expertise in
integrated primary care. It has been and still is an honor to be part of Creating a legacy
program at Augsburg, students and faculty who arrived in our DNP FNP program are
indeed called to create a new face of healthcare through trans cultural, holistic and
integrated primary care lens. It is a blessing to share this time of my life of bridging the
gap between our current healthcare system in integrative complementary and alternative
health care.
J
Joyce Miller 10:29
That sounds incredible. So, when you launched the FNP program, What do you remember
about the beginning of that program or, or just the beginning or the launching? or What
was your biggest maybe understanding or takeaway?
L
Lisa VanGetson 10:52
Well, when I was asked by our nursing faculty to consider being the director of the
program, I remember feeling deeply embraced by how the mystery of God has been
preparing me throughout my professional career for this work. In 2013, was one of the
years of my professional life with the mystery of God placed what I call a constellation of
creative nursing faculty into a particular time of history in healthcare. Our call, and I
believe this is still our calling. It is to be part of a health community to recreate the
Oral history with Lisa VanGetson
Page 5 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
meaning of health and wellbeing for our patients. As we know healthcare becomes more
and more complex each day, and we are challenged to integrate a holistic and
integrative academic and clinical experience for students. This requires each of us to
reflect on how we enter a trans cultural culture of healthcare.
J
Joyce Miller 12:00
So can you tell me all the emphasis you talked about trans cultural culture care? Tell me
about the emphasis on transcultural, holistic care really aligns with you and your either
nursing or nursing or teaching practices?
L
Lisa VanGetson 12:19
Well, the emphasis on transcultural, holistic and Integrative Health really has been a deep
part of my own nursing and teaching practice for 37 years. As a native woman walking
into worlds walking in the spiritual world, where we turn to Mother Earth, the plants and
animals, our ancestors, the night sky to help us guide in this work of nursing, and also
walking in the world of evidence based practice. And healthcare policy is an effort to
provide the very best for our patients. So walking in this worlds with patients and families,
I believe we are called to serve to be with them in moments of transformation and
healing. To walk with patients through their illness story. This has always been the
emphasis of how I provide patient care.
J
Joyce Miller 13:13
That's incredible. So what should nurses know about practicing from these frameworks?
L
Lisa VanGetson 13:24
Today in health care, nurses are required, in my opinion, more than ever to understand
that trans cultural, holistic, and integrative health care is the road to patient care. These
frameworks, they're not subspecialties, this is what healthcare is today, and it is what
patients want from us. patients want us to understand their illness story through a holistic
lens. nurses, nurse practitioners must come to the patient's narrative, embracing the many
ways of understanding how transformation and healing is part of every single visit we
have with the patient. This is how we need to be providing health care today.
J
Joyce Miller 14:12
So if there would be something that we could improve upon, in our department, would you
Oral history with Lisa VanGetson
Page 6 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
have any thoughts on that?
L
Lisa VanGetson 14:21
It is important for our faculty to be allowed to grow into be faculty. We can grow our
internal structures faculty to support our students, and to grow our ongoing growth as
faculty. But we need the university to support our outer structure of our programs so that
we can continue to strengthen the core values and mission of who we are as a nursing
department.
J
Joyce Miller 14:51
So where do you see the department in 20 years?
L
Lisa VanGetson 14:55
In 20 years, I would hope that ours students would remember the experiences and
mentors that are provided to them. Through our nursing program, and through our
nursing faculty, I imagine alumni carrying on the deep hearing on the deep legacy of the
mission of our department.
J
Joyce Miller 15:20
I agree. As we both are getting closer to retirement, we do want our students to carry on
we are. So is there anything else that you can think of that I didn't ask or that you would
like to share today, before we close this interview time?
L
Lisa VanGetson 15:44
I guess just in closing, I do believe that, that health care is forever changing in to grow with
the times to grow a nursing department with the times of the changing face of healthcare
is what we have to do. So in 20, and 30 and 40 years, it will look very different. But it will
be aligned with meeting the best needs of where healthcare is today, and what our
patients need from us.
J
Joyce Miller 16:17
Thank you. Well, thank you, Lisa. This was quite interesting to find out about your life and
your passion, and just your teaching practices. So I really want to thank you for your time.
And and very much appreciate you participating in our oral history here at Augsburg
Oral history with Lisa VanGetson
Page 7 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
University. Thank you.
L
Lisa VanGetson 16:38
Thank you.
J
Joyce Miller 16:43
I hope that stupid banging could hear a little thing and I said shut up. Hopefully, so does
it. Transcribe it you're still recording
Oral history with Lisa VanGetson
Page 8 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler,
2018
Tue, 3/9 1:32PM
25:18
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
commons, health, people, individuals, augsburg, community, neat, volunteer, nurse, comments,
patients, led, stigma, hear, volunteering, homeless, rapport, location, received, experience
SPEAKERS
Sam... Show more
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler,
2018
Tue, 3/9 1:32PM
25:18
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
commons, health, people, individuals, augsburg, community, neat, volunteer, nurse, comments,
patients, led, stigma, hear, volunteering, homeless, rapport, location, received, experience
SPEAKERS
Samantha Gibson, Alisha Stahler
S
Samantha Gibson
00:00
Hello, my name is Samantha Gibson, and I'm an AmeriCorps VISTA worker with health
commons, would you please introduce yourself for the recording?
A
Alisha Stahler 00:07
Hi, my name is Alicia Stahler, and I am Augsburg student at the Augsburg University for
the nursing program for a bachelor's degree.
S
Samantha Gibson
00:18
Great, thank you. So I just like to reaffirm for the recording that you consent having this
interview and a transcript stored at the library, Augsburg University, where it'll be made
available to the public.
A
Alisha Stahler 00:30
Yes, I have consented for that.
Samantha Gibson
00:32
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 1 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
S
Samantha Gibson
00:32
Great. The last thing I'd like to mention is that there may be some background noise. Is
there some lawn maintenance going on? That's, that's what that buzzing sound is. Alright.
So to get us started, would you please tell me a little bit about where you grew up, and
who you called family.
A
Alisha Stahler 00:50
So I grew up in a small town with a family of four brothers and our parents. We are a
middle class, family. And like most families are some families, we grew up with some
struggles, I had four brothers who did struggle with some alcohol and drug addiction. We
also had extended family of aunts and uncles and cousins that we spent a lot of time with,
we had game nights with them. Our family was pretty much involved in some church
activities, but never really volunteered for much within the community. As I got older,
though, I started to feel the need or felt led to get more involved into the community and
volunteer at a couple different things. I've only carest within the community here in my
surrounding area. And I also went on a mission trip to Guatemala. And I have also been
led to just do random acts of kindness, helping out people at a grocery store paying for
their groceries in line. So that kind of leads into the experience I had through Augsburg,
which kind of led me to get back into doing that.
S
Samantha Gibson
02:04
Okay, did you say that you grew up in Minnesota?
A
Alisha Stahler 02:08
Yep. here in Minnesota, just a small town of population was about 2000.
S
Samantha Gibson
02:14
All right, and how did you end up choosing Augsburg University?
A
Alisha Stahler 02:19
So I chose Augsburg because they're here they have a location here in the Rochester area.
And I have heard a lot of great things about their program. And also I really liked that
they're a faith based.
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 2 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
S
Samantha Gibson
02:35
Thank you. And how did your experience at Augsburg lead to you becoming involved
health commons?
A
Alisha Stahler 02:44
So my first nursing core class to get the bachelor's degree, one of they're not really
requirements, but one of their programs allowed us to volunteer at the Health Commons
in Minneapolis, which kind of seeing patients that were of a diverse culture that had low
social economic backgrounds. So it was just an experience that was outside of what I'm
used to as a nurse working in a health care in the hospital setting.
S
Samantha Gibson
03:21
Yeah, absolutely. What else can you tell me about your experience of health commons.
A
Alisha Stahler 03:26
So at first, I really wasn't sure what to expect, because I haven't really volunteered with
any low income, social backgrounds, you know, homeless kind of volunteering work. So I
really wasn't sure what to expect. It was interesting when we talked about it in the
classroom, just to see the kind of the stigma that goes along with that kind of culture. A
lot of people in the classroom hadn't really been around homeless or difficulties of that
people are faced with in the world today. So it was really interesting to hear what people's
thoughts were. And growing up the way I did having brothers struggle a lot with addiction
and drug abuse, and just the, somewhat of a dysfunctional in our family, I kind of been
involved with a lot of judgment and a lot of what the stigma is on, on people on this world.
So this program, kind of, I felt really led to it because it kind of was nice to go in for myself
not having judgment, I try not to have that kind of judgment on people. So the experience
was quite interesting and really rewarding.
S
Samantha Gibson
04:44
Good to hear. So you mentioned the talking about the experience in class, how was Health
Commons presented to fit in with your curriculum, and how well do you think that your
experience and health comments related to what you were learning
A
Alisha Stahler 04:58
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 3 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
so the point of doing this was to kind of just compare and contrast the difference between
a nurse working in a hospital kind of studying base and a nurse working in a community
kind of setting base. And it was really neat to see how the Augsburg Health Commons
provided more of a community base, and it was provided free and they provided a very
supportive and safe environment, and was very welcoming. And it was definitely not the
medical atmosphere that I was used to. They did things like blood pressure checks, talk to
some of the clients that came there may had respiratory issues I'd seen some people had
some eye and foot issues, it was neat to see how the nursing staff there, and the
volunteers how they all were there to listen and honor each individual that was there. And
they definitely built a rapport with these, these patients or people that were coming there.
And a lot of it was just meeting basic needs that we all kind of take for granted. They
offered socks and diapers, different kinds of toiletries, wipes, underwear, clothing, jackets,
hats, it was neat to see the I went during February, so it was right after the Super Bowl. So
hearing the kind of how a lot of these people that came to the Health Commons, to use
utilize all the support that they give, how they were kind of blocked off during the
Superbowl. So that was kind of challenging, and sad to hear that they were kind of not
able to walk on certain streets during that time. But it was neat to see the NFL had
actually dropped off some jackets. So a lot of the people that were coming into the Health
Commons, were able to get jackets to keep them warm during that cold time. So that was
really, really, really neat to see. And then just seeing the community connections that they
had. And the education that they were giving these patients are the people that were
coming in, it was pretty unique. And then prior to starting before the doors actually open.
One of the the nurses that was leading the health comments received a phone call from a
crisis center regarding an individual who had been coming there for some time. But during
that time, health comments was going under had some construction work going on. And
they had received this call that this individual had not eaten for four days. And they
hadn't seen him and he was pretty nervous about coming into the facility due to the
smaller location at the time. And they had asked the nurse to see if maybe she would kind
of walk around the community to see if they could find them and offer some help that the
health comments was able to provide for these individuals. So I actually had a very unique
experience where I was able to go with that nurse in walk was probably about six blocks
from the Health Commons location and find this individual. And when we found them, I
had stayed back and it was a very safe environment. And the nurse had actually walked
up to this gentleman who was wrapped in a couple of sleeping bags and had his items
around him. And she kind of went up and and stated his name and he peeked out. And I
saw this amazing smile on his face, which she was so surprised to see her. And she had
offered to supply him with some daily needs that the health comments had back at that
location. And so he gratefully accepted that and the nurse and I had walked back and
gathered some supplies for him. And then on the way back, I felt led to purchase a meal.
So we stopped at this location, and I was able to get a few sandwiches for him. So it was
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 4 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
really, really neat to actually walk the street and see some of these individuals that utilize
as the health comments. It's an experience I will always remember and never forget and
just so appreciative of that opportunity.
S
Samantha Gibson
09:21
Thank you for sharing that story. You mentioned how you related to your Health
Commons experience professionally as well as personally. Could you talk a little bit more
about how your experience in Health Commons fit or challenged your expectations in
both of those realms?
A
Alisha Stahler 09:39
Yeah, so it was just neat to see in the hospital setting. I'm so used to the patient
population that's more centered and focused. Whereas coming to volunteer at the health
Commons that's more driven on community based and it's definitely a variety of care and
skill. that's given to a particular population such as the homeless man that was there.
Also, the hospital setting were more focused on treatment and restoring a patient to their
baseline baseline, where the health Commons was more focused on promoting health
through education, and then through the community connections that they offer. And
then giving a lot of the individuals that came opportunities and references for needs that
they may need. The challenging through that is, the difference is that at the health
comments, most of these patients don't have really a medical insurance company that
provides them with as much as a hospital setting does. So a lot of them haven't been
medically diagnosed with things, they don't really receive a lot of preventative health
care, whereas in a hospital setting, most of those patients are receiving preventive care.
They see their primary providers, they have a diagnosis, and they're being treated as
appropriate for their diagnose. So it was really neat to see a group of people come
together at the health comments, and provide care for these people, they individuals that
may not have received care up anywhere else. So the challenge is to we're just seeing just
the need of this within the community at the health Commons. So it was hard to when we
came back to the house comments location and provided for the rest of the individuals
that were there, it was really hard to just give only a certain amount of items to these
individuals or would last longer, so they could provide more within the community. So that
was that was hard to see that. So it really made me want to help and challenged me to
want to do better and, and volunteer more, and things such as this.
S
Samantha Gibson
11:58
You know, thanks for your insight, that story that you told about doing sort of some
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 5 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
outreach to an individual who couldn't come into the health Commons location. I was
wondering how you would suggest that health comments could better accompany people
on their journey of health. And for example, things like doing those outreach services or
adding more hours that they're available?
A
Alisha Stahler 12:27
Yeah, I think that would be a really good idea to do. I think that Augsburg You know, this is
the only opportunity so far through any of my nursing, schooling or my nursing program.
When I did my associates degree we didn't. We didn't do any volunteering like this. In the
past, I've done research and we actually did some outreach. And we're able to go out to
different communities, we did a Somali community where we offered free blood draws.
And we're able to look at these patients to see if they had Hepatitis B, and we were able
to then bring them into the clinic and get them help or educate them. So I think that the
health dogs, Brickhouse Commons could definitely reach out more to doing that. I think
that would be a good idea for them to just open up more opportunities for students for
volunteering. And definitely, with just with classmates that, you know, have this stigma on
these people, I think it was a great opportunity for them to be able to go into the
community and see this, and maybe lose a little bit of their stigma that they have, and try
to push that, you know, disparity away that these will have and actually see them as an
individual and be able to reach out and give them the help that they need and finding the
different references and or different referrals and that are within the community that can
provide help to those individuals.
S
Samantha Gibson
14:01
In line with what you said, how has this experience? Or has this experience changed any
biases that you may have had about homeless or marginally housed individuals?
A
Alisha Stahler 14:13
I think I went in with pretty much an open heart and tried to not be judgmental, but I know
that there's been instances where I might be driving in the car and I'll see a homeless man
standing on the street and I'll get a feeling like Why does he need the money or I had an
instance where I actually helped somebody. And I had filled her gas tank up with gas and I
was actually working on my floor as a nurse and listening to somebody tell a story and it
was pretty much the same kind of similar situation and it turned out to be the same
person. And this individual ended up following the person that she had helped. And in that
situation, the person And actually went to a liquor store. So there is things in life where
people do lead you the wrong way. And that's where that stigma comes. But I think
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 6 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
generally in life that you should be open, and no matter if you're helping them or not, I
think that in life, we should all just provide and not have a bias or a stigma of what these
people are using their money for. But rather than just help these individuals and allow
them to, not all of them are doing that, and some need help. So I think that this has just
opened my eyes that everybody has a story and if we just opened up and not been so not
so judgmental to them, and allow them to get the help that they need. And opening this
community based facilities, such as the health comments will definitely be a good thing,
and to give health care back, and maybe prevent some of the things that are happening
within those individuals.
S
Samantha Gibson
16:03
Sure. From your your experience at Health Commons, can you tell me about some of the
strengths that you heard or learned from the people that you met?
A
Alisha Stahler 16:14
It was quite amazing to see the rapport that the volunteers and the nursing and the
nurses that led kind of instructors in the health Commons, they definitely were building a
good rapport with these patients, they trusted them. Even just walking on the street,
people were saying hi, as we walked by, and they knew this nurse that was leading the
program. And I think that it definitely improves the outcome for these vulnerable, this
vulnerable population who may not receive care elsewhere, or have limited resources. So I
think that it definitely is a strong base to have within a community because of the rapport
that's built, allowing them to come somewhere they feel safe, and they feel a lot of trust.
S
Samantha Gibson
17:05
You mentioned that report. Did you feel as though people felt welcomed into the health
common space? Do you have any suggestions on how we could welcome people better?
S
Samantha Gibson
17:15
During the time I, like I said, I went and there was some construction going on. And I know
that they had mentioned that the numbers were a little bit lower because of the smaller
building. And I think that when they have their construction done with a newer facility
that will be most likely rewarding. I think that just being in the small location that they
were at, at the time, a lot of the individuals that utilize their facility felt a little bit nervous
or felt too enclosed. So I think that finishing up with the construction project that they
had, and opening up a bigger center, I know they had mentioned that they had computers
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 7 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
for them to utilize and be able to kind of help them maybe get a job or find other
references. So I think that will definitely be a key thing for continuing to help the
individuals that are utilizing their program.
S
Samantha Gibson
18:15
Yeah, that construction that you mentioned, I believe it's actually supposed to be
completed this fall 2018. And they'll be moving back into the space. Do you have any
other suggestions or hopes for that space?
A
Alisha Stahler 18:30
No, I think just I think this is just a great opportunity that the health comments has led it's
vital service within their community. And it's definitely for a student. It's extended my
knowledge beyond the traditional learning that I've learned in a classroom setting or
within my job at the hospital. So I definitely think that for them to continue with that
connection within that community and partnering, partnering, partnering with other
references to provide a overall wholesome to get the needs that they need for being met
their basic needs, and I think that's going to definitely help them with their health in their
overall well being.
S
Samantha Gibson
19:18
Did your experience at health Commons impact your future career ideals or your personal
goals? Yeah, definitely.
A
Alisha Stahler 19:26
Like I said, I had volunteered for some stuff prior to this class. But as they say, out of sight
out of mind, I haven't volunteered probably in the last three to four years. So this this
actual program that I was able to volunteer at really opened up my heart and just, there's
so much that we can do within our community and I traveled to Minneapolis for this and I
know right here in Rochester, there are so many things that I can do. So it was a great
opportunity and it actually opened up my mind to hopefully In the near future, be able to
volunteer and give back within the community here.
S
Samantha Gibson
20:05
Great, yeah. What was most valuable or useful to you about your experience and health
commons?
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 8 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
20:14
Like I said, I think the most important thing was probably just watching and seeing the
rapport in that relationship that was built for these patients or these individuals. It just, it
was just an amazing experience with that part. And I think, going forward, it definitely is
going to continue to help people and I think that Augsburg should continue programs and
actually even try to see if they there's other programs that they can add to this for their
students.
S
Samantha Gibson
20:49
What do you think Health Commons could do better? Is there anything missing?
A
Alisha Stahler 20:55
I don't know that there's anything missing. Maybe besides having more opportunities to
volunteer at things, like I said, this is the first time I've done any of that. And the first time
I've even heard of a volunteering program like this through the, through the school. So I
think maybe the only thing is finding other opportunities, not only just in the low income
or the homeless, but maybe providing into you know, the alcohol or the drug addiction
and being able to provide for them to would be a neat thing to see. Also, I think it'd be
neat to, you know, a lot of elderly, I see a lot of elderly in the hospital setting that, you
know, struggle struggle with. And they know a lot of them are malnutrition. So I think even
helping that or volunteering to serve at homes or, you know, go into homes, rather than
having people come to them. And it was a great opportunity to be able to actually have
somewhat of an outreach experience when I was there. So I think that sometimes people
don't always come into a facility to get help. But I think allowing you to go to their home
or the street or wherever they're at would be a big impact.
S
Samantha Gibson
22:20
What, if anything, will you take forward with you from this experience?
A
Alisha Stahler 22:28
I think like I said, just taking back and and giving back from that experience, just put that
drive back in me. And knowing that when I see a homeless person now that from the
stories are heard in the facility, in the four hour, I was there probably about four hours, was
pretty amazing. Everybody has a story, and everybody has a situation. And we need to
stop judging on that and see individuals for who they are and honor them for them, and
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler, Page
2018 9 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
not for the situation they're in and being able to provide and and help them in any way
that we can.
S
Samantha Gibson
23:10
Thank you. I know you already kind of told one story that stuck with you. But is there
another another tale of health Commons that really stuck with you from your experience?
A
Alisha Stahler 23:21
Yeah, there was I was able to sit and have comments and kind of hand out some toiletries
and some basic need items. And one of the volunteers that was there has been there, I
believe, for 15 plus years. And she was telling me her story about how she was homeless at
the time and was struggling with just daily needs and finding jobs. And she actually told
the story that the Augsburg health comments actually saved her life. And now she is
giving back by volunteering at that at the facility. And so it was really neat to see
somebody who actually received the help that health Commons gives to these
individuals, and to see how it's changed her life for the better. And she was very, very
grateful for it. And it was really neat to hear her story about it.
S
Samantha Gibson
24:18
That's an amazing story of the community, I think. Yes. Is there any topic that we didn't
talk about or anything you'd like to add?
A
Alisha Stahler 24:29
No, I think that we pretty much just covered our thing there. I think to just the the
donations that the health Commons receives, I think that they can even benefit for more
because there is such a need for the individuals that come. So it was really neat because
our our instructor had said if we felt led to you know, donate any items to the health
comments when we volunteered and I just think that just finding The referrals to find
people to bring in donations to help is probably a key thing. So just reaching out to the
community to get the support for them to run their program.
S
Samantha Gibson
25:11
Great. Thanks for taking some time to talk with me today.
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler,Page
201810 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
A
Alisha Stahler 25:14
Yes, you're welcome. Thanks for having me.
Oral History Interview with Alisha Stahler,Page
201811 of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Oral history with Michelle Higgins, 2020
Tue, 3/9 3:37PM
11:53
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
students, augsburg, nursing, nurse practitioners, family nurse practitioner, graduated, teaching,
rochester, patients, michelle, program, pursued, university, hermitage, great, clinical,
western medical model... Show more
Oral history with Michelle Higgins, 2020
Tue, 3/9 3:37PM
11:53
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
students, augsburg, nursing, nurse practitioners, family nurse practitioner, graduated, teaching,
rochester, patients, michelle, program, pursued, university, hermitage, great, clinical,
western medical model, dnp, prepared, department
SPEAKERS
Lisa VanGetson, Michelle Higgins
L
Lisa VanGetson 00:01
Welcome, Michelle, and thank you for joining me today for this oral history project on the
Department of nursing for Augsburg University. As you know, my name is Dr. Lisa
VanGetson in and I am the director of the DNP FNP program. Could you please introduce
yourself for the recording and tell us what your position is at Augsburg University?
M
Michelle Higgins 00:23
Hi, this is Michelle Higgins and I am a family nurse practitioner and I work in the
department of nursing in the family nurse practitioner department as clinical, clinical and
classroom faculty.
L
Lisa VanGetson 00:38
Thank you. Great. So before we continue, I would like to confirm that you do consent to
being interviewed and have having this interview stored at Augsburg University which will
be made available to the public. I do. Thank you. Can you tell us about where you grew up
and who you call your family?
Oral history with Michelle Higgins, 2020
Page 1 of 5
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
M
Michelle Higgins 00:59
I grew up in southeastern Minnesota in Plainview. My father was a physical education
teacher and my mom was a nurse. She went back to school when I was in the first grade
and completed her nursing degree over the next two years. My grandmother, my mom's
mom was also a nurse, and that led me to the nursing profession. I have an older brother
and an older sister and a younger brother.
L
Lisa VanGetson 01:33
Thank you. Are you married?
M
Michelle Higgins 01:37
So I'm currently married and my husband is a nurse as well. His brother is also a nurse. We
have lots of nurses in our family. I have four children. My oldest son is Alex. And he is
getting ready to take his medical college admission test this next month he graduated
from the University of Minnesota. I have another son Aiden, who is 19 and he lives in
Rochester. And I have two daughters. Ava is 15 and she is a sophomore in high school
getting ready to take her driver's test and my youngest is nine Ari, and she is a fourth
grader.
L
Lisa VanGetson 02:18
Great. Thank you so much. Um, could you tell us about your educational background?
M
Michelle Higgins 02:24
Sure. I knew that I wanted to work in health care profession. And as a young kid, I I
thought that I wanted to be a family medicine physician. And so I started actually my
college experience as a junior in high school, I went to what was known as Rochester
community college as a post secondary enrollment options student and I graduated from
Rochester community college as a at the age of 17 with an associate degree and then
transferred to the University of St. Thomas. In hopes of achieving a biology degree and
planning to go to medical school. I did become pregnant with my first son at at age 18.
And we re evaluated some of our priorities and decided that at that point, I had had some
experiences in the hospital and recognized what a commitment it would be to be a
medical student and also be a mom. And so I did know some nurse practitioners, and I
thought that that may be a better fit for our family. And so then I pursued an
undergraduate degree at the Winona State University through the Rochester campus and
Oral history with Michelle Higgins, 2020
Page 2 of 5
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
practiced as a nurse for a few years in gastroenterology as well as cardiology and
neurosurgical floors and intensive care units, and then pursued my master's degree at
Concordia University Wisconsin and graduated there with my family nurse practitioner
degree, and then pursued my Doctorate of nursing practice with transcultural nursing
studies and leadership through Augsburg University and I will graduate in two months.
L
Lisa VanGetson 04:19
Yay. So thank you. So tell us, Michelle, how did you end up at Augsburg teaching in the
DNP FNP program and how many years have you been with us here?
M
Michelle Higgins 04:29
So I've been at Augsburg now for four years. I ended up coming to Augsburg, as Lisa
VanGetson had been searching for faculty that would be a good fit for the program that
she was developing and had spoken to some nurse practitioner graduates and other nurse
practitioners that she knew and my name had come up a few times and so she did reach
out to me and I still recall the conversation that I had hiding in my bedroom closet trying
to I paid for my family, because they're very loud and I couldn't have the conversation in
my home. So I still remember at least explaining to me what the expectations would be as
an adjunct faculty. And so I started as an adjunct faculty teaching pediatrics. And then
after that you're after talking with Lisa and other faculty. It's I really enjoyed teaching. And
it was recommended that I pursue the doctorate of nursing practice at Augsburg. And so
then I started the that program and then took on an FNP position at Augsburg and have
been teaching for the primary care classes with physical and holistic health assessment,
pediatrics, and then our two primary care adult classes as well. And then I've also really
been focused on making sure that our students are well prepared with clinical skills. And
so we are bringing in patients and into a hermitage farm where our students are able to
be in a controlled setting to have simulated patient experiences, learning how to do
specific procedures, such as orthopedic procedures, joint injections, as well as women's
health, and ears, nose and throat exams. We also have taught our students how to do
suturing and minor surgical procedures through our skills lab here at hermitage farms.
L
Lisa VanGetson 06:39
Thank you. Tell us, Michelle, what has been your most memorable teaching experience
here. I really enjoy teaching the didactic material, but even more so I really enjoy teaching
students how to interact with patients, and how to obtain adequate history through
development of trusting relationships with patients. probably my most memorable
experience has been having a great many of our students in clinical experience with me in
Oral history with Michelle Higgins, 2020
Page 3 of 5
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
my clinical practice, I really enjoy being able to share how to do these things, is very
memorable. I've precepted lots of students over my 14 years as a nurse practitioner, and in
oftentimes these aren't students that I'm teaching in the classroom as well. So when they
arrive to my clinical setting, I don't know what they've been taught versus teaching and
clinical students that are coming from Augsburg. I know what their clinical, their clinical
backgrounds are in the classroom education that they've had, and so I know what to
expect from them. Great, thank you. Can you describe for us how the emphasis on
transcultural or holistic nursing aligned with you and your nursing and teaching practice?
And then further describe what should nurses know about practicing from these particular
frameworks?
M
Michelle Higgins 08:20
Sure, I do think that that's what what we're all about here at at Augsburg. That's the
difference in our program versus another program. Oftentimes, we can learn all about the
causes of disease, and how to treat a disease through the traditional Western medical
model. But at Augsburg we are digging a little bit deeper and looking into you know what,
what else could be contributing to a potential diagnosis or someone not being well. And I
do feel like teaching this material has changed my practice, both on a personal level, as
well as in the clinical practice. students teach me new things every day, the students that
we have in our program are very knowledgeable, and they all have different areas of
expertise. And so the the students bring something new to the table on a daily basis.
L
Lisa VanGetson 09:21
Great, thank you so much. If there would be something that you think we could improve
upon in our nursing department, what might that be? Okay.
M
Michelle Higgins 09:46
Can we pause on that one? I'm sure I've read these questions last night, but I don't think I
must have prepared my brain for
L
Lisa VanGetson 09:51
that one. Well, we'll come back to that one. Do you have a dream or a vision for our
department Like what? What would you like to see in the next 20 years.
Oral history with Michelle Higgins, 2020
Page 4 of 5
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
M
Michelle Higgins 10:01
Sure, you know, I anticipate that as we have more and more Augsburg graduates out in, in
our community locally as well as you know, throughout the state that we'll be able to
place our our students that are in our DNP FNP program with these previous Augsburg
graduates, we know that the students that we are preparing and sending out into the
workforce have been prepared with the holistic knowledge of and have a different
worldview. And I would like to see that our our students are being taught by these by these
providers specifically. I also hope to see our program continuing to grow. The face of
healthcare is changing on a daily basis. And I anticipate that nurse practitioners will
continue to be the front runners in providing not only primary care services but also
specialty care services as there continues to be a shortage of clinicians in the United
States. I am hopeful that we will see that Augsburg is meeting this need and providing
nurse practitioners with education in acute care, gerontology and perhaps pediatric nurse
practitioners in the future as well.
L
Lisa VanGetson 11:31
Thank you. So Michelle, I just like to thank you for your time and for being part of our FNP
faculty and for adding to this legacy program which we have developed into the history
of our nursing program at Augsburg University. Thank you so much.
Oral history with Michelle Higgins, 2020
Page 5 of 5
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Oral History with Joyce P. Miller, 2019
Tue, 3/9 4:37PM
39:12
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
nursing, augsburg, students, rochester, department, thought, leader, commons, teaching, class,
applied, program, nursing assistant, years, leadership, teach, worked, mentored, nursing profession,
bsn
SPEAKERS... Show more
Oral History with Joyce P. Miller, 2019
Tue, 3/9 4:37PM
39:12
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
nursing, augsburg, students, rochester, department, thought, leader, commons, teaching, class,
applied, program, nursing assistant, years, leadership, teach, worked, mentored, nursing profession,
bsn
SPEAKERS
Kristen McHale, Joyce Miller
K
Kristen McHale
00:04
Thank you for joining me today for this oral history project on the Department of nursing
for Augsburg University. My name is Kristen McHale. I'm the assistant professor and BSN
director in Rochester. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording and tell us
what your position is at the university?
J
Joyce Miller 00:23
Yes, I'm Joyce Miller. And I am the current chair of the nursing department as well as the
director of the master's program and the director of the doctoral transcultural nursing
program.
K
Kristen McHale
00:39
Great. Before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being
interviewed and having that interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made
available to the public.
J
Joyce Miller 00:50
Yes, I do.
Oral History with Joyce P. Miller, 2019
Page 1 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
K
Kristen McHale
00:53
Joyce, can you tell them tell us about where you grew up? And who you called family?
J
Joyce Miller 00:59
Absolutely. I grew up in a little town called Sleepy Eye, Minnesota. It was a very small
community. The town was actually named after an Indian chief who had ptosis of the
eyelids. And so the town didn't want to call it Ishtakhaba, which is what his name was. So
they decided to call it sleepy eye. And what was the other Oh, and who do I call family?
Well, I have parents and I had two brothers and one other sister. So
K
Kristen McHale
01:39
thank you. What led you to the nursing profession?
J
Joyce Miller 01:45
You know, that's interesting. I think of one I was probably in about fifth or sixth grade, I
had a girlfriend that lived in the neighborhood whose mother was a nurse. And, you know,
Sleepy Eye is a very small community. You know what 2400 but our hospital we had a
hospital that was about 26 beds. And her mother was a nurse. And I remember going over
to her house. And I don't know if you remember but you know, nurses used to wear the
lovely white starched uniform and nursing cap and the white hoes and the white shoes.
And I would watch her go out to work. And I asked her, you know, tell me about nursing.
What is it that you do? And so she began to share a little bit about what she did as a
nurse. And I think it was at that point that I went, I think this is what I want to do. So when I
was 16 years old, I became a nursing assistant and worked in at that time, we didn't have
to take nursing assistant courses. I just applied to the hospital and said I wanted to learn
how to become a nursing assistant. So I worked my sophomore junior and senior year at
our small town hospital as a nursing assistant, and you know, in these hospitals, it was
everything from you know, the first floor was medical, maybe surgical ob was upstairs, we
had an ER and there was usually one nurse, maybe one LPN, on LPN, maybe on each floor,
and, and nursing assistants that cared for patients. And so I mentored with some pretty
awesome nurses. And it was at that point that I said, This is what I want to do. And so I
applied for nursing school when I was a senior. So no, so I was, yeah, there was. So you
know, when you said, How long did I want to become a nurse? And when was my first I
think it was at a very young age, but I think it was because of my friend's mother that I
admired.
Oral History with Joyce P. Miller, 2019
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K
Kristen McHale
04:06
What a wonderful beginning. Can you describe a little bit more about your educational
background in nursing from that point?
J
Joyce Miller 04:15
Okay. So in 19 Oh, gosh, now you're going to age me 1971. I graduated from high school.
And it was interesting because I had an aunt who was also a nurse. And I had originally
applied for St. Cloud diploma program and was put on the waiting list. I don't know I think
I applied late and and I saw I was put on the waiting list and I was like fifth on the waiting
lists. Well, my aunt said to me, You know, I'm really concerned that nursing is becoming
more of a university college degree and the diploma will not give you what you need? And
she said, you know, have you heard about Rochester state junior college? She said they've
just started this new two year program. About two years before that, and she said they're
accredited. I think you should check them out. So I applied for the nursing program in
Rochester. I really never thought I would need to have a bachelor's degree. I figured it's all
I needed was a two year degree nurse. And so I applied and was accepted. Yeah. And I
went to school I started in in fall of 71 and graduated in July of 73. So, so, my career
started as a two year degree nurse. And then I worked for many years in practice. I, you
know, I did geriatrics, I did pediatrics. I did, geriatrics, I was a nurse manager. And then all
of a sudden I thought, you know, I really I could see the writing on the wall, that I really
needed a additional education. So I when Augsburg came to Rochester, in 98, I decided
this was the time for me to go back to school I actually had been looking at Viterbo and
Winona State and all of the other programs but when Rochester came or when Augsburg
came to the BSN program in Rochester, I thought now this is the program that I want
because I was working in the operating room, I was working primarily day shifts, and all of
the classes were in the evenings. And you know, when it was not like every week and and
it was always you know, 530 to 930. And I thought this would fit in perfect with with my
life. So I did the BSN completion. I finished that in 2002. And then I thought I kind of like
school. And I thought you know, I really wanted to be go beyond my nurse manager role.
And my, I guess my goal at Mayo was to really be a nurse administrator. So I thought,
Well, I better get my master's degree. So, at that point, Augsburg Cheryl luening was the
new chair coming into at Augsburg replacing Beth Nillson. And I remember Cheryl coming
to our classes in Rochester. And she met with us she had asked Rick Toni, if she could
come and meet with this the current students that are in the program. And she said, you
know, she was asking us how we liked the program and what are things that they could
change? And, and, and what are things that we would like? And I said, Well, you know, I
really am looking at a nurse leader role. And I said I'm a nurse manager would Augsburg
ever consider starting a leadership track in their masters? Because at that time, I really
didn't know what I'm trans cultural, you know, do for me and why? Why do I need to know
Oral History with Joyce P. Miller, 2019
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about transcultural nursing. And so, um, so that was, I think the summer I had another year
left of school. And by the time I finished my BSN, Augsburg started a track with the
master's program. So, a colleague and I were the first two that came into the Masters
track program. And I remember looking at the syllabus going everything said
transcultural, transcultural, trancultural, there was nothing, you know, none of the syllabi
had been changed, you know, like the nursing 500 and the theory all of those still had just
the transcultural tracks. So I made sure that they really changed all of the language so
that it was at a really identified that we were in the leadership track. And I finished that in
2005. And then when Augsburg started their doctoral program in transcultural nursing, I
was, you know, asked if I would ever consider coming into that. And I thought, why not?
This sounds like an exciting time. And this is a brand new program. And so I thought, you
know, I've done a brand new program with the BSN completion. I did a brand new track in
the masters. Why don't I do the brand new doctoral program so I finished my doctorate
Started in what 2008 and finished in 2011. So and the rest is history. So I'm an oggie three
times. So if you ever look at my alumni badges, they go, Oh, two or 511?
K
Kristen McHale
10:18
Wow, you certainly lived the experience of an Augsburg student in the nursing
department.
J
Joyce Miller 10:25
So I tell the students, whatever classes I go into, I have been in your role I have been in
your seat. I remember how scared I was when Rick Toni was first talking about what kind
of a computer we needed for our class, because I'd been at a school for like, almost 20-25
years before when I went back to get my bachelor's and I'm thinking, How do I write an
APA paper? I don't even remember if we wrote APA papers when I was in by two year
program. So I'm thinking about where I was. And so I tell the students that as part of my
story is, is, if I can do it, you can do it. Anybody can do it. You can you can do it. You just
take one class at a time. And you really realize how much you didn't know, I always say
you never know. You don't know what you don't know. And, and I realized that the more I
went back to school, the less I really knew. Because there's so much more to learn. So, so
I'm on oggy, oggy, oggy, three times.
K
Kristen McHale
11:34
Your ability to share your experience with your students is incredibly meaningful. Now,
could you talk a little bit about the evolution and shift between being a student and being
a teacher? How did that happen for you? Okay.
Oral History with Joyce P. Miller, 2019
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
J
Joyce Miller 11:51
Well, I was working one day at Mayo, I was a nurse communicator. And my pager went off,
and it was an outside phone call. And it was Sue Nash. And Sue Nash was the director of
the BSN program in Rochester. And so I picked up the phone and and she said, Hey, this is
Sue. She said, Have you ever thought about teaching? And I was like, I don't know, have I
ever thought about teaching? i? Well, I teach. You know, I teach as a nurse manager, I felt
like I did a lot of precepting and teaching. But I said, I really had never ever thought about
teaching at a university. I said, but you know what? I might consider it. So Sue and I met?
And she said, Well, why don't you just try it, just teach one class, you know, teach trends
and issues. And because I think you would be really a good kind of that nurturing person
that would help the students, you know, coming into our program, because you could tell
your story about going back to school. And no, and at that time, I didn't have my
doctorate, I was just really finishing my master's degree. And so I said, Okay, I'll teach one
class. And so I taught one class that first year, will fall in spring, and I thought I kind of like
this teaching thing. It's, you know, I was so nervous at first, I remember thinking, I don't
know, what what do I know about creating syllabi and, and adult pedagogy? I mean, you
know, I look back now. And I think I wished I would have had some courses on how to
teach adult students. But I think I, I because I had worked in, in practice for so long. And
part of my nurse manager role, is we didn't have educators at the time that I had to
educate nurses as well. And so I did, I really did education. And so I just always kept
thinking about when I was a student, what would I want to know is that, you know, how
would I want to be treated in the classroom? How do I, you know, what are things that
really had meaning for me, you know, how do you teach adult students and I think I took it
from my own experience of mentors that I observed in the role and mentored that I felt I
learned some teaching skills from from them, but I've really, I learned and so then, the
second year came along, and they said, well, would you consider teaching two classes a
semester? So pretty soon I found myself teaching two classes and four classes a year. And
then it was like, well, would you consider applying for a position Here. And so I did go
ahead and apply because at that time at that time the other nurse that was teaching in
Rochester Oh, Marybeth Gay got a job at rctc. And so, we we needed we Augsburg
needed person. So, I applied, got the position. So I started out at a part time position. And
then the following year, I got shifted to full time. And so I have been teaching at Augsburg
for 15 years now, I started in 2005. So, yeah, I actually started teaching in 2004, but they
don't count that, because I was an adjunct. So, so I've taught in Rochester, for I really from
about 2004, to 2011. And then after I got my doctorate degree, that's when I started
teaching in the master's program. And I teach primarily the leadership courses in the
research classes and helping students complete their final thesis projects. And then I've
taught also in the doctoral program, so
Oral History with Joyce P. Miller, 2019
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K
Kristen McHale
16:29
I love it,
J
Joyce Miller 16:30
I love it, I never thought that I would end my career teaching, I never thought I would end
my career as a chair of a nursing department, I really saw my trajectory as this nurse
administrator in a hospital. But I am so glad that Sue Nash tapped me on the shoulder
and saw something in me that maybe I would have never explored. So how I got here,
K
Kristen McHale
16:58
that was a great description of your journey to becoming a teacher, you recently won an
award and university recognition for your teaching, in your experience, what makes a
good teacher?
J
Joyce Miller 17:15
I think a good teacher is one that can kind of read the I don't want to say her students to
be able to create an environment where students are feel safe to speak up. Where
students were, you're continuing to stretch their minds and and that teacher that has that
ability to you know, yes, you come into the classroom with this is the content that I'm
going to teach tonight. But based upon the dialogue, or kind of what's happening, that
ability to say, Ah, this is really a topic that needs to be further explored. And oh, not, oh,
gosh, it's two o'clock now, or 10 o'clock, or five o'clock or whatever, I better switch to my
next topic. But to really kind of allow the students to shape what conversations need to
have happen, I still make sure that I cover all the content, but maybe I don't cover it as
rigidly as I was, like, when I was a new teacher, when I first started out, it was like, okay,
from six to eight, I'm going to do this and from seven to eight, I'm going to do this. And
you know, by 930, I gotta have all of this done. And I soon learn that you really have to let
the dialogue of the evening guide you into your conversations with the students and allow
them as adult learners to share their stories and where are they're taking the
conversation, and you have to be able to, to challenge them. So you have to really kind of
think on your feet all of the time. And really be culturally sensitive to to making sure that
the conversations and that every voice is heard, and that you are inclusive to everyone
and to teach to everybody's needs, because some people are audio some people are
hands on. So I really try to mix up my class content with lecture with dialog with group
with conversations and to really honor this the different ways of knowing and learning
that students have. So
Oral History with Joyce P. Miller, 2019
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K
Kristen McHale
19:44
you just described a wonderful student centered focus for your teaching. I'd like to follow
up and ask as the director of the master's program and The DNP transcultural nursing
leadership program, you get to meet all of the new and incoming students. Can you share
insight into why these students choose our programs at Augsburg?
J
Joyce Miller 20:15
Yes, I, in fact, we just had a doctoral kind of a welcome day for all of our doctoral students.
And I always ask them, why Augsburg. And what I hear over and over and over again, it's
the relationship based program, they feel that we have really small classes that they're
going to be not just in this large auditorium and be lectured to that are kind of focus on
social justice, transcultural, holistic, and students say they like the that face to face or that
relational, the relational piece of our of our program and that we've got faculty, that's
what I hear. So that brings students to our program as well. But I think I like I said, I, I think
it's the relationship based the transcultural holistic, that whole, that whole integrative
holistic approach is we don't have a cookie cutter program. Our program is really unique.
And, and I think the students recognize that. So
K
Kristen McHale
21:43
so to shift gears just a bit. Have you had experiences with the health Commons? And if so,
would you talk about that
J
Joyce Miller 21:52
a bit? Yes. Um, when I was in Rochester, still teaching in Rochester, the health Commons in
in Cedar Riverside was just getting started. And so my, my experience with the health
Commons at Central was first of all, as a student in the BSN program, and as a student in
the in the master's program. And there's been times where I have brought students there
because I was teaching a class. And periodically I've helped Katie out at at the, at the
central health Commons. I think my most experience has been involved with the Cedar
Riverside, and the Somali community. When I was working on my master's degree, one of
my kind of cultural groups that I really wanted to understand a little bit deeper, was the
Somali culture. And and because my doctoral project really focused on the Somali culture,
I really wanted to have more experience. And so I started driving up on Friday afternoons,
when Katie and Ruth Enestvedt were just starting the health Commons, in Cedar
Riverside, and so I just started to volunteer at the health Commons. And then when ever
Katie was on maternity leave, Dr. Katie Clark was on maternity leave. I replaced her during
Oral History with Joyce P. Miller, 2019
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
her times that she was gone. So since Rebecca Hartwig, has taken over the health
Commons, I probably haven't been there as much. But just recently, this past summer,
Rebecca was going to be gone on a Friday afternoon. And so I spent time at the health
Commons. And it was so fun because every time I go back, you know, all the BCLs, they,
they are hugging me, and it's like, oh my god, it's so good to see you and the women are
there. And so I I'm, I wish I could be able to spend more time since I've been director and
chair. I have less time to spend. But I really, really enjoy and I think I enjoy spending time in
the community. And I just think it's really important for our students to have that
opportunity to really look at and spend time, you know, understanding the health
inequities and understanding was in our neighborhood, especially in Minneapolis, because
we are living in an area where there's 1000s 10,000 Somali individuals and I think it's really
important for our students to have time there. But it's very complex. So we glad we have
master students that spend time at the health Commons. But so I, I say I dabble in it. But I
love it. So I love spending time there. Like,
K
Kristen McHale
25:16
thank you for sharing those insights about the health Commons. And I agree that our
students, whether they're graduate students, or undergraduate students, take away
enormous learning from their time at the health commons. So personally, Joyce, I'd like to
thank you for your leadership in the department and in the nursing profession, you spent
much of your nursing career serving and leaders leadership roles, can you share what
nursing leadership means to you, including what you see as important skills or traits in a
nurse leader?
J
Joyce Miller 25:56
Yes, you're right, I have spent probably over 25 years, 30 years in in leadership, I think, you
know, I describe a nurse leader is one that can see a vision or a goal, and help individuals
in the department or wherever you're whatever group you're leading, to be able to
achieve those goals, not to say that they're just my goals, but to to really have a, I guess, a
shared a shared decision making a vision of strategic plan that everybody agrees on,
because you really have to have everybody going in the same direction. Because if you
don't, you're you're never going to get there. And so I think as a leader, you know, I'm not
there doing everything, but I'm there, role modeling, I'm there challenging, I'm there.
advocating. They're saying, Okay, this is where we thought we were going to be, or how is
this going to look so that as a leader, you're visionary, you're kind of I don't want to say
relational, you're listening to everybody, you're advocating for everybody, you're also
making sure that you're kind of achieving those goals that you hope to, to set out for, and
being respectful and mindful of everybody in the department. And really, again, it kind of
Oral History with Joyce P. Miller, 2019
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goes back to understanding different personalities. And we're the followers who are the
people that are more silent, who are the individuals that I can tap on. So that if I, if we
have a project to work on, who I know, also has those skills that lead, but then also, who
do I need to make sure that I don't forget, because I really want to make sure that
everybody feels that they belong to a department, but that everybody has got to be
going in the same direction. Really try to say thank you a lot to people. And let them know
that they're really appreciated, that everybody has a voice, and that it's really one
department, you know, I might be the chair, and I might be that head person. And it's the
person that other departments come to. But it's not that I have to do everything, I firmly
believe that we've got lots of fabulous leaders in the department. And I want to make sure
that I mentor other leaders, also because we have to look at succession planning, who's
going to who's going to do this role in the future. So, so much to go, that goes into
leadership. But I think it's being that visionary, and being able to take individuals to where
you need to go and keep moving in a direction but you have to have, you have to have,
yeah, you have to have relational skills, personality skills, and tough skin, sometimes
because you can get beat up a lot, not necessarily beat up a lot, but you can get you can
get knocked down maybe a few times and you have to have resilience, to not take things
personal because you know, you might think that department has a great idea. And you
take it forward to you know, some the higher level in academia and they don't think it's a
good idea. So you have to learn how to You know, if the dean wants data, so how do I
come prepared to meet with the dean, I, you know, I know she's a data driven person. So
when I come to her, I don't just come to her with a fluff idea, I come to her with data,
because knowing that data will help sell her point, you know, you have to be a
salesperson, you have to be kind of a jack of all trades. And you have to get up every day
and smile, and say, this is going to be a good day, no matter what's going to happen, it's
going to be a good day. And you got to keep a positive attitude. Because I think the
leader shapes the environment. And just like I think you understand energy, and energy in
the environment, that if the leader is doesn't create that positive, energetic field, it can
really affect everybody. So I always try to stay positive. The best that I can.
K
Kristen McHale
31:07
Thank you, Joyce, for sharing that insight, in those words of wisdom. And I know, we'd all
need to listen to that we can all learn from that. I very much appreciate that. So looking
down the road toward the future, as our leader, our department chair, what do you think
the department can do to improve moving forward?
J
Joyce Miller 31:36
know what nursing is going to look like. I have a big fear that there are many. I don't want
Oral History with Joyce P. Miller, 2019
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to say watered down programs or programs that students go to because they can get
through it fast. They can they think it's easy. And and are they really coming out with that
degree that critical thinking that ability to reflect? And think about what is it that I'm that
I'm learning and applying? Or am I just checking the boxes and taking the tests? And I'm
done. And I'm moving on to the next assignment. And they really learning what are they?
What are they? What are they truly learning? So I worry, I worry about what nursing is
going to look like if we continue to do only online. Are we going to lose that relational
based approach to nursing, which nursing is all about relationships? I don't know. Let's see.
And I'll be needing that nursing care 20 years from now probably so I want to make sure
that those nurses know what they're doing and care.
K
Kristen McHale
34:38
Share with us again. How many years have you been registered nurse?
J
Joyce Miller 34:42
Well, you do the math. I'm a graduated in what 19 and 19. So it's totally 2019 and I
graduated in 1973. 46 years is what my calculators as. So yeah, I think that's a long time.
But, you know, the beauty of nursing is that I have never worked in one job. I've been in a
nursing career for 46 years, but I've never worked in the same position, probably no more
than five or six years. So, you know, I've gone everything from, you know, long term care,
which was my first job, and a supervisor in long term care to pediatrics, you know, to the
operating room. But then I went into different specialties within the operating room, I
went into different hospitals within the operating room, I was a clinical assistant clinical
director, and I did clinical research, I started a nurse communicator program, then I went
into teaching, you know, so I've been Chair of the nursing department what this is my fifth
year. So if you're looking at my track record, I'll have one more year of that I should stay in
this role if I want to stay that I change every five or six years. So one only knows what
what the future will bring. But that's the beauty of nursing is you can stay in nursing and
do so much in nursing, which is what's fun about
K
Kristen McHale
36:25
it. Well, I'd like to ask you to reconsider the five year change. And please stay with us in
your fantastic leadership role as department chair for many more years, please.
J
Joyce Miller 36:39
Well, I enjoy it. I in some days, I enjoy it. Some days, I come home and think retirement
Oral History with Joyce P. Miller, 2019
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looks really good. And then and then there's other days that it still does overall bring me
joy. So the days that it doesn't bring me joy, when there's more days that don't bring me
joy, then then that's when I have to say, Okay, it's time for somebody younger to take
over.
K
Kristen McHale
37:03
Well, I don't think there's anyone younger and spirit out there.
J
Joyce Miller 37:07
Thank you. So
K
Kristen McHale
37:09
as we come to a close, is there anything else you'd like to tell us that we didn't ask?
J
Joyce Miller 37:15
No, other than I have to say, I really, really love teaching at Augsburg. I love the mission. I
love the faculty that we have. It's everybody contributes. And it's such a overall it's a very
cohesive group. Yes, we might get into a few. You know, what do I want to say? Just minor
disagreements. But overall, everybody gets along so well, that it's just it's it's a pleasure to
be the chair of the department of nursing that that is such a really an overall very
cohesive group, and very creative group, you know, because it always seems like when I
come, you know, and say, here's our problem, here's our situation. You know, instead of
everybody just looking at me saying fix it, you know, I love the fact that you know, and
you're one of them, Kris, that I really appreciate, you're always coming up with? Well, let's
do it this way. You know, why don't we create this online class, instead of canceling these
two classes? Well, you know, Anna agreed to create an online class. And I love that
creativity. And I love people, individuals in faculty that that say, hey, let's do this. Instead
of saying, Woe is me, or gosh, this is a terrible thing. And so, it's a pleasure to be a leader
of such awesome faculty. So I appreciate you.
K
Kristen McHale
38:55
Thank you choice. Thank you for your time and this rich account of the history of the
Department of Nursing at Augsburg University. And thank you for sharing your story.
Oral History with Joyce P. Miller, 2019
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J
Joyce Miller 39:04
It was fun. Thank you.
Oral History with Joyce P. Miller, 2019
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Show less
Oral history with Jill DeAngelis
Tue, 3/9 4:50PM
10:35
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
family nurse practitioner, nursing, augsburg, track, exams, holistic nursing, students, pharmacology,
teaching, nurse, aligned, care, minnesota, jill, university, teach, grew, classroom, rotation, faculty
SPEAKERS
... Show more
Oral history with Jill DeAngelis
Tue, 3/9 4:50PM
10:35
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
family nurse practitioner, nursing, augsburg, track, exams, holistic nursing, students, pharmacology,
teaching, nurse, aligned, care, minnesota, jill, university, teach, grew, classroom, rotation, faculty
SPEAKERS
Lisa VanGetson, Jill D.
L
Lisa VanGetson 00:00
Good afternoon, Dr. DeAngelis. I'm Dr. Lisa VanGetson from Augsburg University. I'm the
director of the doctorate of Nursing Practice family nurse practitioner program. I'd like to
thank you for joining me today for this oral history project on the Department of nursing
for Augsburg University. Could you please introduce yourself for this recording and tell us
what your position is at the university?
J
Jill D. 00:26
Yes, my name is Jill DeAngellis and I am an adjunct faculty at Augsburg University. What I
teach in the Department of nursing in the family in the family nurse practitioner track.
L
Lisa VanGetson 00:43
Great, thank you so much. Before we continue, I would like to confirm that you consent to
being interviewed and having the interviews stored at Augsburg University, which will be
made available to the public.
J
Jill D. 00:56
Yes, I
Oral history with Jill DeAngelis
Page 1 of 5
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
L
Lisa VanGetson 00:56
do. Thank you so much. Could you tell us about where you grew up and who you would
call family?
J
Jill D. 01:04
So I grew up in New Jersey, I spent most of my life in New Jersey before moving to Boston
upon going to college. My family comprises of my mom, my dad and I two older brothers
at that time. Now, everyone kind of lives all over the place. I currently am married and I
have two little kids, Colton, who is five and Oliver who is three.
L
Lisa VanGetson 01:33
Thank you. Tell us what led you into the nursing profession?
J
Jill D. 01:40
Well, that's a good question. So growing up, my my father is an anesthesiologist and my
mother was a nurse. My mom worked in multiple areas of nursing starting as being a
nikkie nurse, followed by working in EMT and then also in neurosurgery. And I think from
the get go, I was really inspired by medicine and healthcare in and of itself, it
automatically kind of grasped me, I would follow my father in the operating room from
the time I was a very little girl. I did multiple rotations with a large neurosurgical group in
high school and in college. And I just fell in love with it. I did a rotation as well in a level
one trauma ICU when I was in high school, and also in college, and fell in love with the
critical care environment. But I think I would say the thing that grasps need the most into
nursing was that my mother has multiple sclerosis. And she was diagnosed shortly after,
shortly before I was born. And I grew up having to take care of her a lot. She was very high
functioning. But whenever she had any sort of relapse in her health, it was always me that
she kind of fell on to and I took care of her, whether it was giving her her immunizations or
her shots or kind of helping her when she couldn't really feel her body or couldn't see or
couldn't move. It was always really me that she leaned on to so I think that more or less is
really what grasped me to want to take care of people and kind of going go into this field.
L
Lisa VanGetson 03:28
Thank you, Jill. Could you describe for us your professional career in nursing and your
educational background as well?
Oral history with Jill DeAngelis
Page 2 of 5
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
J
Jill D. 03:37
Sure. My educational background when I was in elementary school, I went to a private
school. From the time I was in kindergarten all the way through high school, followed by I
went to college in Boston, which was a small private college. That's where I did my
undergraduate nursing work. Then I moved out here to Minnesota, I completed my family
nurse practitioner track. That was an all on all online program at the time through Ball
State University. And then I completed my doctorate program at the University of
Minnesota. And I am currently about to begin my Acute Care Nurse Practitioner track at
Winona State University. So I kind of a background of all different types of universities.
L
Lisa VanGetson 04:24
Could you tell us how you ended up teaching in the family nurse practitioner program at
Augsburg in what has inspired you to want to teach?
J
Jill D. 04:36
Well, I'd say growing up, I was toyed between either going into the field of medicine or
teaching and I did always have a strong affinity for education and academia. I remember
being a little girl and kind of having a little setup in my basement and having a little
classroom that I would pretend I was a teacher. You're in. So I always really did have a
strong desire to teach. Even in my nursing field and now nurse practitioner, I like to mentor
students and new employees. As to how I got to Augsburg, one of the faculty there said
there was a need for more faculty and adjunct faculty there, knowing that I had a desire
to teach. And so I jumped on it. And so I started teaching pharmacology, advanced
pharmacology one and two, in 2018. And I continue to teach those today.
L
Lisa VanGetson 05:41
Thank you. Tell us what has been your most memorable teaching experience here at
Augsburg?
J
Jill D. 05:49
Well, that's a good question. I don't know that there's one in particular, but I would say the
theme I think I enjoy the most is, collectively I get the students in the classroom. And
pharmacology in and of itself is been a challenging course in the sense, that's a lot of
memorization. It's not really as much of a hands on course, for students. And they really
haven't had the opportunity to have clinical rotations yet. So they really haven't been able
Oral history with Jill DeAngelis
Page 3 of 5
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
to put that material into play yet. So it's challenging for them to take exams and learn
how to take true board like exams. So they tend to struggle at the beginning of the
semester and get frustrated. But I would say, All in all, it's enjoyable and a positive
experience. When they, the wheels start to turn, and they start to realize that they really
can do it, they start to have confidence and they start to learn exactly how to get to that
aid A plus B can get to see. So I think that that is a very rewarding experience for me as
their instructor.
L
Lisa VanGetson 06:57
Thank you, Jill. How does the emphasis on transcultural or holistic nursing aligned with
you and your nursing and teaching profession? And what do you think nurses need to
know most about practicing from these particular framework? And if you could speak a
little bit about the framework of integrative health as well? Well, I
J
Jill D. 07:19
think being I think transcultural and holistic nursing, in my opinion, means being sensitive
to the cultural, cultural differences as you focus on into individual patients, their needs
and their preferences. I pride on carrying this mindset out into the classroom. I attempt to
provide prompt, personalized, confidential, culturally sensitive and constructive feedback
during class. And also on written assignments. I attempt to keep an open door policy and
schedule face to face meetings, zoom sessions, phone calls with students whenever
needed, whether that's, you know, during nights on the weekends, to review exams, offer
opportunities to ask questions, talk privately, whatever the students really need. Some
students don't feel like they can really talk to me during class, they just want to talk
privately. So I just feel like you have to have that open mindset, the same age.
L
Lisa VanGetson 08:21
Thank you. So to where do you see the department and the nurse practitioner track at
Augsburg being in, say 20 years?
J
Jill D. 08:34
Well, I think I think the the road is really pointing towards, you know, we've we've come to
have population focused certifications. And that's, you know, having a family nurse
practitioner track. But I, I do believe the focus for the future really needs to be on also
having specialty certification tracks. And that includes an acute care track, a lot of
programs will have a primary care track, but having really more of that population, that
Oral history with Jill DeAngelis
Page 4 of 5
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specialty focus. I find in my current practice at the hospital, that there's a lot of acute
care, nurse practitioners that are not trained adequately to be in acute care environment,
and most of their training is on the job. But as most states are starting to conform to the
Minnesota consensus model, I believe legally for their scope of practice. We need to be
providing these educational programs so that they can be aligning with the appropriate
scope of practice that they need. So I think that we really have to be providing these extra
programs now. We need to develop our nursing program specialties to be in align with the
professional and market demands in healthcare. So when our students graduate, so when
our students go graduate they will be entering a market with many jobs to choose from
with the correct scope of practice aligned with their certification.
L
Lisa VanGetson 10:10
Thank you that sounds like a busy 20 years. So I would just like to take this time again to
thank you for your time and being faculty in our DNP family nurse practitioner track in
adding to this rich history within our nursing department at Augsburg University. Thank
you so much
Oral history with Jill DeAngelis
Page 5 of 5
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Oral history Dawn Kaderabek
Tue, 3/9 5:01PM
9:02
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, teach, nursing, holistic, faculty, dnp, dawn, program, nursing assistant, grow, learn,
create, experience, adult, np, healthcare system, skills, interview, clinical, students
SPEAKERS
Lisa VanGetson, Dawn Kader... Show more
Oral history Dawn Kaderabek
Tue, 3/9 5:01PM
9:02
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, teach, nursing, holistic, faculty, dnp, dawn, program, nursing assistant, grow, learn,
create, experience, adult, np, healthcare system, skills, interview, clinical, students
SPEAKERS
Lisa VanGetson, Dawn Kaderabek
L
Lisa VanGetson 00:02
Thank you, Dawn for joining me today for this oral history project, the Department of
nursing for Augsburg University. My name is Dr. Lisa VanGetson. I am the director of the
DNP FNP program at Augsburg. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording and
tell us what your position
D
Dawn Kaderabek 00:24
My name is Dawn Kaderabek, and I'm one of the faculty instructors for the DNP FNP
programs.
L
Lisa VanGetson 00:33
Great. Before we continue, I would like to confirm that you do consent for being
interviewed and having that interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made
available to the public.
D
Dawn Kaderabek 00:47
Yes
Oral history Dawn Kaderabek
Page 1 of 4
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
L
Lisa VanGetson 00:49
Thank you. Dawn, tell us a little bit about where you grew up and who you would call your
family.
D
Dawn Kaderabek 00:55
I grew up in a small town, Minnesota Iowa border, and then Minnesota, the population was
412. My family was my father and three brothers and one sister, there was five kids. Now,
as an adult, my family is my husband, my son, my daughter, her husband and our two
grandchildren.
L
Lisa VanGetson 01:26
Okay, so tell us how you first became interested in the nursing profession?
D
Dawn Kaderabek 01:32
Well, the truth be told, I worked as a nursing assistant when I was in high school at a local
nursing home as a nurse, nursing assistant, and I used to think I'm doing all the work and
they're getting all the money when I would watch the nurses to pass their meds. So that's
kind of what led me to the nursing profession. The second thing was that I needed a job.
And I didn't want to spend a lot of time in school, nor did I have a lot of money for school.
So I started with my LPN in 1981. So I was a nursing assistant, I was an LPN. I went on for
my two year Rn, then I went for my four year Rn, and I went for my masters. And lastly, I
went for my DNP.
L
Lisa VanGetson 02:31
Okay, so tell us how you ended up at Augsburg and what inspired you to want to teach.
And then how many years you've been with us here at Augsburg.
D
Dawn Kaderabek 02:41
I did my bachelor's program through Augsburg and I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed the
nursing instructors. And I enjoyed the environment. I thought that it was a very nurturing
environment. And I liked that I liked the mission. Let's see what was and why did I want to
teach? Well, I never set out to teach. But Dr. VanGetson is a very good friend of mine. And
she was had started up a program and needed some help with faculty. So I initially began
teaching more to help out than anything and came to love it. And I have been in a
Oral history Dawn Kaderabek
Page 2 of 4
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
teaching position for this is my fifth year. Okay, in what courses do you primarily teach? I
have taught health politics and health promotion. But currently I teach physical
assessment, pediatrics, primary care, the adult one and primary care the adult to pay 10
tell us what has been your most memorable teaching experience? I don't know that I have
a specific experience. But my doctorial project was to create an educational curriculum
that had hands on experience. So creating an outpatient simulation clinic and creating
skill labs or workshops for the students has been the most fun and it's very rewarding for
the students to get to do these different skills such as suturing and splinting and casting
and women's health and to see them grow and love the new skills they're developing.
What do you remember about At the beginning of the FNP program, I remember sitting
down and talking with Lisa about what she was trying to create a nurse practitioner
program that was evidence based but also holistic and embraced the alternative and
complimentary therapies and thinking that that was the kind of nurse practitioner I
always wanted to be. Beautiful. How does the emphasis on trans cultural, holistic and
Integrative Health align with your own NP practice? I would have to say perfectly. I'm very
much. I don't know that medicine is always the answer. I think that a lot of soul care needs
to be done. And I think that if we care for the soul and the sight, we would have less to
worry about for the medicine aspect.
L
Lisa VanGetson 06:12
Where would you like to see our FNP program in 20 years?
D
Dawn Kaderabek 06:19
Wow. Well, that's a tough question. I guess. When I look at the future of the NP practice,
I'd like to see more residencies, and fellowships, and more clinical experience. I think a lot
of the schools are going to didactic the first two years and clinicals. Second, and I would
like to see that for the NPs as well, or more of a residency where they get more hands on
experience. Okay. Why do you think it's important for nurse practitioners to learn how to
integrate this trans cultural holistic in complementary and Integrative Health into our
healthcare systems today? Well, first because the way our healthcare system is currently
run is failing. But secondly, we are a global society. And in order to succeed and go
forward, we have to recognize the differences and to let them enrich us our different
cultures bring different things to the table. And if you make room for everyone, we all
learn and grow. Thank you for that. Is there anything else that you would like to tell us
about what it's like to be faculty here at Augsburg anything more you'd like to say about
our student body and the future of healthcare? It's really rewarding to see how excited the
students are when they start the program and to watch them grow and learn and
question. It's a very rewarding job for the most part. Thank you. So Dawn, this concludes
Oral history Dawn Kaderabek
Page 3 of 4
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
our interview. Thank you so much for your time and being part of our FNP faculty and
helping our students grow and learn in for participating in our rich history in the
department of Nursing at Augsburg University. Thank you
Oral history Dawn Kaderabek
Page 4 of 4
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Oral history with Cheryl Leuning
Tue, 3/9 4:50PM
43:01
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
nursing, students, augsburg, namibia, people, practicum, augustana, courses, amish, teaching,
doctoral program, colleges, dnp, graduate, health, bsn, program, continued, doctoral education,
sioux falls
SPEAKERS
Che... Show more
Oral history with Cheryl Leuning
Tue, 3/9 4:50PM
43:01
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
nursing, students, augsburg, namibia, people, practicum, augustana, courses, amish, teaching,
doctoral program, colleges, dnp, graduate, health, bsn, program, continued, doctoral education,
sioux falls
SPEAKERS
Cheryl Leuning, Kaija Freborg
K
Kaija Freborg 00:03
Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project on the Department of nursing
for Augsburg University. My name is Kaija Freborg. And I'm an assistant professor as well
as the director of the BSN program. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording
and tell us what your position is at the university?
C
Cheryl Leuning 00:22
My name is Cheryl Leuning. And I'm currently a professor of nursing.
K
Kaija Freborg 00:28
Great. Before we continue, I would just like to confirm that you consent to being
interviewed and having the interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made
available to the public.
C
Cheryl Leuning 00:40
Yes. All right.
Oral history with Cheryl Leuning
Page 1 of 13
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
K
Kaija Freborg 00:42
So starting with the first question, can you tell us about where you grew up and who you
call family?
C
Cheryl Leuning 00:49
I grew up in South Dakota, Eastern South Dakota, on the prairie. My family is rural, I guess,
prairie folk. And we farmed near Freeman, South Dakota. Up until the time I went to
college in Sioux Falls. I lived on the farm. So I consider my roots rural.
K
Kaija Freborg 01:27
What led you to the nursing profession?
C
Cheryl Leuning 01:30
I think I have always cared for people, animals, I've been interested in what people.. What
makes people healthy, healthy food diet. And so I I can't pick out one exact thing. I guess
as my education continued, I was interested a lot in biology and chemistry, physics, some
of those topics. So it kind of led me into nursing. I maybe thought more about Veterinary
Science at one point. And anthropology at one point, but it seemed that nursing one out.
K
Kaija Freborg 02:27
Can you tell us more about your nursing education experience?
C
Cheryl Leuning 02:31
My nursing education was at Augustana College, then Augustana College, it's now
Augustana University in Sioux Falls. I entered the program in 1968 and graduated in 1972.
It was an experience that brought me in touch with populations in Africa, and Guatemala.
We had opportunities to travel during our time at Augustana. And so I think that got me
interested in transcultural nursing. I went to East Africa to Uganda and Tanzania and
Kenya, back in 1970. And discovered people along the way and it seemed that I got more
interested than in transcultural nursing. people's ideas about health and illness and how
those were different based on where they grew up. And their experiences.
K
Kaija Freborg 03:44
Oral history with Cheryl Leuning
Page 2 of 13
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What inspired you to start teaching?
C
Cheryl Leuning 03:49
I worked as a visiting nurse or public health nurse in Sioux Falls after graduating from the
University of Minnesota with a Master's in Public Health Nursing. I came back to South
Dakota. My husband being a Lutheran pastor was called back to Brandon to serve a
parish there and I became or was interviewed for a position as the nurse supervisor at the
visiting nurse Association in Sioux Falls. And we covered minnehaha County, basically as
public health community health nurses. And I think from there, we had nursing students
from Augustana doing their clinicals clinical practicum work at the VA or visiting Nurses
Association. And we I just got interested in teaching and was invited to consider a position
at Augustana in the early And so I, what were you teaching at the time? I was teaching
primarily a medical surgical content and had students on a medical unit at Avira
mckennan Hospital at the time. And yeah, so I, I didn't teach Community Health until a
few years later.
K
Kaija Freborg 05:31
How did you end up at Augsburg and how long have you been here for?
C
Cheryl Leuning 05:36
Let's see, I came to Augsburg full time in the fall of 2002. Prior to that, I had worked with
Dr. Beth Nillson on developing a few courses for a master's program in transcultural
nursing that she was interested in getting started. And we taught some courses together in
Rochester and in the city's transcultural nursing courses in I think the mid 90s. We offer
those courses to students as continuing professional development primarily, but it evolved
into into a program. I'm thinking that in 1998, the Masters in transcultural nursing was
approved by the Augsburg faculty. And I didn't. I taught a few courses as an adjunct,
because at the time, my husband had been called to a parish in St. Paul Gloria dei
Lutheran Church, but I continued to commute back to Sioux Falls, to teach at Augustana
for another seven years or so, before I made the move to Augsburg. It was in maybe the
fall of 2001 that Dr. Nilsson was talking about retirement and suggested that I think
critically about transferring up to Augsburg and assumed the role of department chair
which seemed a little overwhelming at the time. Also, at the time, one of my colleagues at
Augustana was due for a sabbatical. And if I would have left in 2001, she wouldn't have
been able to take her sabbatical. So I continued teaching for another year and then
assumed the role of department chair in the fall of 2002. At Augsburg,
Oral history with Cheryl Leuning
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K
Kaija Freborg 07:54
how did you meet Bev Nilsson?
C
Cheryl Leuning 07:56
I met Bev Nilsson through transcultural nursing society. I remember meeting her when
there was a conference here or a workshop with Madeline leininger and Jean Watson.
That must have been in the early 90s.
K
Kaija Freborg 08:23
What courses Did you primarily teach when you first started here and what courses do
currently teach?
C
Cheryl Leuning 08:30
I guess I've taught most of the courses in the master's program. And I taught a few courses
in the Baccalaureate program initially, nurse theory course. You're seeing theory I think I
taught in the Baccalaureate program. And then you're seeing theory transcultural nursing,
health, health and transcultural nursing, and some leadership courses in the master's
program. Currently, I am teaching in the doctoral program primarily I have one Master's
Course leadership. Let's see it's trance, ritual, and ceremony for transformation and
healing is the course I'm teaching in the master's program right now. And I'm co teaching
a course this fall with Deb Schumacher and nursing research called ways of knowing it's a
doctoral course.
K
Kaija Freborg 09:46
Can you tell me more about the Namibia practical how that came to be? what it's about.
C
Cheryl Leuning 09:53
Okay, then then maybe your practicum for several years. I have been traveling Namibia
went to Namibia in the early 80s. Because our colleges, the Lutheran colleges throughout
the United States, were giving scholarships to Namibian students at the time there. There,
the apartheid regime in Namibia did not allow or have actually, college education for
Indian students, African students. And so our colleges, were giving full scholarships to the
students. And I was teaching at Augustana at the time, so I went over on a j term to find
out where the students were coming from. I met two wonderful women over there. Bertha
Oral history with Cheryl Leuning
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Ngavirue and Ena Barlow, we became friends through the years I'm not exactly sure how
those friendships evolved. But they have evolved. Bertha has since passed away. But I
know her family and we've stayed in touch. So after those that initial visit, I went back to
Namibia to complete dissertation research at the time I was getting it to get my PhD, I
attended the University of Utah. And the research that I did was study on health and
illness care provisioning among heavy role women in Namibia. And that took me to
Namibia for nearly nine months, a little longer, more friend, friendships became deeper,
more, more people, I got to know more people professionally. And it became evident that
maybe students would enjoy coming back to Namibia with me at some point. So I think
some of those early students who came Deb Schumacher was one of them, who now
teaches at Augsburg. We I think that was in 1998, we began bringing students to Namibia
to work with nurses in various settings, in community clinics, through the ministry of health
and social services, through UNAM, the University of Namibia. And at that time, Center for
Global Education was a little more focused on the day school semester abroad students
so we did not work with them so closely, although I certainly brought students over to
Center for Global Education and knew various people who were directing that center, one
of them being Dr. Pandu Hailonga-van Dijk, who was a good friend as well. And we have
maintained our friendship. Pandu since moved on from the Center for Global Education.
But yeah, so. So the practice can begin early in the, I guess, well, began in the late 90s. And
has continued pretty much uninterrupted and through through now. And we're
transitioning now to have Center for Global Education, do a little bit more of the
programming and with students.
K
Kaija Freborg 14:01
Great, thank you. Could you tell me about Pine Ridge Reservation how that practicum
started and came to be?
C
Cheryl Leuning 14:10
How Pine Ridge was part of my life, I suppose, growing up in South Dakota. I knew about
Pine Ridge. Since I was maybe seven or eight years old. We traveled through Pine Ridge
on our way to the Black Hills. And when I began teaching at Augustana, I met persons
from Pine Ridge who were students at Augustana. My husband spent a summer in Pine
Ridge early on in 1969. And so we used to sad relationship with Pine Ridge throughout, I
guess, my life and so on. When I came to Augsburg, we had been taking students to Pine
Ridge at Augustana students spent time there as j tutor. So we explored the possibility of
doing a practicum there not not a j turn but a couple of weeks or a week at a time. And I
think that began quite early. I was not the first people person to go to Pine Ridge was
students Sue Nash took some of the first students to Pine Ridge. And I didn't join that
Oral history with Cheryl Leuning
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practicum until maybe I had been here a few years. But other faculty were leading those
practica. early on.
K
Kaija Freborg 15:50
What did you initiate those then? Would you say,
C
Cheryl Leuning 15:53
with the effort, or it was a group effort, I probably was very much in favor of it happening,
and so did what I could to promote it as department chair, I certainly encouraged it.
K
Kaija Freborg 16:09
So you've really brought about a lot of learning experiences for students. So you see that
I'm asking lots of questions about practicum. So I need I need to know about harmony as
well.
C
Cheryl Leuning 16:22
Harmony. Well, harmony is a practicum among the old order Amish. And that began as a
graduate students work. Dr. Sharon McGill, who graduated from our doctoral program is a
nurse who worked at Mayo Clinic at the time in orthopedics. And when she was doing her
master's program, she was seeing a lot of Amish people in the orthopaedic unit, because
of farm accidents and injuries on the farm. And so she was interested in knowing more
about where the people were coming from, and a little bit more about the Amish. So her,
her work then for her master's project was bridging some making bridges building bridges
between the Amish and Western medicine. And so she actually did a project to develop
that, that bridge and part of that work involved getting to know more people in the
community. So when it came time to do Sharon's doctoral work, she extended that
program and develop a practicum, an educational practicum for graduate nursing
students. And we began taking graduate nursing students to harmony. For three days
primarily, we do homestays, sometimes with Amish families. The focus of the practicum is
primarily to understand the culture of care needs of families and some of their health
seeking. Help beliefs and values and just getting to know them. There's a lot of
misinformation out there and somewhat crazy information out there about Amish people.
And I think we're able to dispel that when students meet Amish people, they get to know
them on a human scale, and it I think makes all the difference in the world to their
practice.
Oral history with Cheryl Leuning
Page 6 of 13
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K
Kaija Freborg 18:52
Great, thank you so much. It seems that you had quite the hand in developing the DNP
program which also led to the FNP program. Can you talk about your your work with
that?
C
Cheryl Leuning 19:06
The transcultural nursing DNP program started really in 19. What? No 2013 or when did it
start? Sorry, I can't remember when it started now, I should have looked that up. We
started the doctoral program. In 2004, the American Association of Colleges of Nursing
voted to move to doctoral education as the entry level for advanced nursing practice that
meant that all all nurses with advanced degrees scopes of practice like the midwives and
the NP nurse anesthetists, they all would require a doctorate at that time in 2004. It was to
happen in 2015. Well, it didn't quite happen in 2015. But we realized in 2004, if our master's
program did not shift to into doctoral education, we probably would lose the masters. I
don't know if that would have happened. But certainly the trend is toward doctoral
education. And the doctoral program probably was launched in 2009 2008. We, we
started courses toward the doctoral program. We hadn't gotten Higher Learning
Commission approval initially. Because when we started some experimental courses that
we were just interested in seeing if people would take the courses. And and so we
developed a few courses and group of 10 students enrolled in them. And we realized that
this would be a popular program. So we applied to the Minnesota Office of higher
learning, first of all, to get permission to offer a doctoral program at Augsburg and then
once that approval was obtained, we got approval from the Higher Learning Commission
to offer a doctoral program. So indeed, the courses we had started to develop, were
approved by our graduate Academic Affairs Committee to be part of the curriculum for
the doctoral program, and, and the program was launched. We were not accredited by
the ccne until right before the first graduates. And I can't remember what year that was. I
believe it was around 2011 2012. Maybe? Probably was, yeah. Were you the first crack?
Okay.
K
Kaija Freborg 22:33
Yeah.
C
Cheryl Leuning 22:33
Yes. So we, yeah. So we had that program was well, on its way, when we launched a new
track in the doctoral program for family nurse practitioners. We didn't or weren't able to
Oral history with Cheryl Leuning
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launch that track until we had some graduates from the doctoral program who could take
leadership for that track. nurse practitioners who had come back through our doctoral
program to get their get their doctorate. So Dr. Lisa VanGetson, took on the role as
director of the program. And so it was through her efforts that we, we got approval from
the faculty for the DNP FNP track of study. And I can't think of the year that that was
launched. But that is a program that has taken off very well and has really, I think
enriched our doctoral program overall, and the offerings that we can, can provide to
students.
K
Kaija Freborg 24:03
So I'm going to ask about your teaching, what's been your most memorable teaching
experience?
C
Cheryl Leuning 24:14
Well, I think I'd have to say that experiential teaching and learning has probably been the
most rewarding. Teaching and being with students in settings where they have
opportunities to meet people apply some of the knowledge they are learning, to
situations. I think those are the most rewarding experiences I'm also finding the challenge
of hybrid teaching in and online teaching, actually quite invigorating to because students
today are appreciating maybe more than ever the flexibility and nimbleness of being able
to do some asynchronous work with their colleagues as well as face to face work, be it
physically present in in a classroom or remotely via conferences. And so I guess I found it
all challenging and interesting. I don't know that there's one particular course or
experience.
K
Kaija Freborg 25:51
Have you been involved with the work at the health commons? And if so, what stands out
most to you about that work?
C
Cheryl Leuning 25:57
Well, I haven't been so involved in the last years early on, I spent more time at the health
Commons. I guess when Bev Nillson was here, and yeah, but as time goes on, we have
hired directors for the health comments in the early days, there were no directors and
faculty and students, literally staff the comments. When I first came as department chair,
we had some creative ways of figuring out how we could get a director position to to be
maintained for the health comments. And he initially Ruth Enestvedt, and Linda Holt, took
Oral history with Cheryl Leuning
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on that position. And later, Dr. Katie Clark has taken on the position of directing the health
come and so there's been more more leadership that has, has evolved. And so I haven't
been as involved these last years, but I know things have been growing and shifting and
now there's a health Commons in Rochester, which I'm very excited about it Bethel
Church, with the doctoral students,
K
Kaija Freborg 27:20
and how long have discussions been about have opening up a health Commons in
Rochester?
C
Cheryl Leuning 27:27
It seems like forever, just the discussions have been going on and on. But we haven't had
anybody that would be a champion for doing this. And this past year, three of the
doctoral students took on this project as part of their doctoral project. So we're hoping
that it can be sustained.
K
Kaija Freborg 27:54
How does the emphasis on transcultural holistic nursing align with you and your your
nursing or teaching practice, which had nurses know most of our practicing from these
frameworks shouldn't get these questions ahead of will.
C
Cheryl Leuning 28:15
I think transcultural nursing is has evolved through the years to in, in this day and age,
though with the diversity of our population. And what nurses need to know to work with
persons from different communities. It it just feels like we need a focus on on seeing seeing
people's needs for health in health care, rather than in making people fit into neat little
boxes in our Western biomedical system. There's a broad range of healthcare values and
beliefs out there that people are using and exploring and finding meaningful and if we're
going to be effective in the future. We need to we need to be working with with what
people need and not not imposing some values or systems on people that aren't aren't
relevant to them.
K
Kaija Freborg 29:39
Well, I know that I love having you in my nursing theory class to talk about Dr. Madeline
leininger and her theory. Can you tell me more about your relationship with her or your
Oral history with Cheryl Leuning
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work with her?
C
Cheryl Leuning 29:53
Well, I met Dr. leininger I guess early on in the 70s when I got interested in trans called
Nursing and attending transcultural nursing conferences. I never had her as a teacher. But
I certainly worked with people who had been her. Her students and I, I worked with her on
a few research projects. After I graduated from the University of Utah. I did some projects
in Namibia with nurses using lining girls theory or sunrise enabler primarily to study health
and illness, care provisioning with urban elders in in Namibia. And that was a project that
was quite meaningful. And Dr. leininger had advised us on some of the techniques and
methods of her ethno nursing methods. So I guess I've worked with her on research in that
way. I also served as the president of the transcultural nursing society for really two years
as president and two years I guess, or a year as Vice President and then a year as past
president to help the transition. And Dr. leininger was very much active than an active
part of the society at that time. So she's, she's a larger than life figure in nursing. I think
we've lost a great nurse theorist, she's done a lot to enhance nursing and bring culture to
play with nursing. And I miss her.
K
Kaija Freborg 32:08
I feel so lucky to hear those stories that make us feel that theory is real. You know, when
you're meeting someone who developed a theory and something so needed and
innovative, especially during the time that she did that, in the work that she did
throughout the decades. It's just phenomenal. So very inspirational. If there would be
something that we could improve in the department, what would that be?
C
Cheryl Leuning 32:38
Well, in this day and age, something that I have felt quite nervous about is the changing
trends in in higher education. We know that private and smaller colleges are closing at
alarming rates, because there just aren't students in more. And I think we have to do some
very different things to to address that. In our graduate programs in nursing, we're we're
seeing some trends as well with are the earning power of money. And right now this
student debt, the more and more people are, are having less than less to spend on
education. So I think there's going to be a stretch for students to come back for higher
degrees, even the American Nurses credentialing center, and is still offering certifications
to students with master's degrees. Students with master's degrees can still sit for their NP
nurse practitioner exams. But I think that's going to change in 2021 or 22. They got another
dropped in guideline now down for that. So I guess one of my worries is for our master's
Oral history with Cheryl Leuning
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program or our doctoral program and transcultural nursing, I fear that it might go away. If
we don't do some really creative work with that program. I i think that that program
shouldn't be a post BSN to DNP program. I think we have to merge as many DNP courses
as we can 800 level courses with the FMP track DNP TCN and track DNP FNP track
courses, we need to put those courses together so that we have a student body for the
future. We can't fragment things out anymore, I think there aren't going to be as many
students, for us. And I think that quality is better than quantity. And in terms of the BSN
program, we're doing some really innovative things with the the articulation agreements
between community colleges, I think that's really has felt good. I don't know that
Augsburg would ever consider a licensure track and the BSN program. But that's a whole
new group of students. As the student population dwindles, we know that the need for
nurses in the future is not going to dwindle. And those colleges that have strong nursing
programs that lead toward licensure seem to be doing pretty well. But you know, that
that's a huge investment. I, I don't know, this college would or university would be able to
take that on? I don't know. But I do think about that, for the future. The So some of the
things that one can read in the Chronicle of Higher Education now, too, and I'm sure those
are part of a lot of thought and discussion around the college. It is. It's a challenging time
for us in smaller private colleges. So I'm hoping that we weather it okay. It certainly has
been positive that the high enrollment and the diverse enrollment in our undergraduate
Day School is is strong. That's very encouraging. So can't be both. Good.
K
Kaija Freborg 37:29
20 years from now, where do you see the nursing department?
C
Cheryl Leuning 37:37
I'm thinking that there's going to be more online work in you're saying more hybrid
nimbleness. I would hope that the nursing department if there's a nursing department
here, and I hope there is because I think Augsburg these private colleges have a lot to
offer society in terms of graduating nurses who are driven by mission and looking for
meaning in in something bigger than themselves. The so I, I think there'll be more online or
hybrid kinds of online work with nursing. I hope there's still some, some experiential
practica, clinical practica that are are involved. And I suppose dreaming it would be if if
we had BSN licensure track BSN to DNP there'd be so many options for for students to
continue right on through, from BSN to DNP. With without without having to go
somewhere else or without having to do a master's program and maybe spend a lot of
money on a few courses that they really didn't need if if we did an efficient curriculum, like
the post BSN to DNP FNP, which I think is quite efficient.
Oral history with Cheryl Leuning
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K
Kaija Freborg 39:49
Another I've had you thinking about the future, if we could just return to the past for a
moment. I know you weren't here at the beginning of the creation of the nursing
department. But what what Could you share there any stories that you heard about how
the nursing department came to be at Augsburg College at the time?
C
Cheryl Leuning 40:09
Well, I think it was one of the first BSN completion programs in the state at the time, which
was quite innovative. Dr. Sue Nash was involved in that. And no doubt she has shared
some of her memories of that I was not here in the late 70s, maybe when that program
began. So, you know, I don't know a lot about those early days.
K
Kaija Freborg 40:47
That's fine. Is there anything that you'd like to tell us that we haven't asked yet? that you
think would be important for us to know regarding the nursing department?
C
Cheryl Leuning 40:55
Well, I think the nursing department has some outstanding faculty at the moment,
outstanding students that we have been fortunate to serve through the years, it is often
with so little that we do so much. I think that that that should be recognized, too. We
certainly devoted a lot of time and energy to our teaching and work here. So I, I think it's a
great place to work and great people to work with students to work with. So that is
energizing and important. And I think that will carry the department into the future to new
people with creative ideas for ways to proceed. So I'm excited to watch how that all
unfolds.
K
Kaija Freborg 42:06
So what you're saying is, you're not going to be here in 2039.
C
Cheryl Leuning 42:09
I don't think so.
K
Kaija Freborg 42:12
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I mean, you could still, like, do an adjunct or something.
C
Cheryl Leuning 42:17
Yeah.
K
Kaija Freborg 42:18
I mean, yeah. online, or I'm sure there'll be great technological advances. You get just
morphed over here.
C
Cheryl Leuning 42:28
Well, if I am even on earth there were ever that wasn't Martha Rodgers often said she'd be
looking down from space. What was what was happening.
K
Kaija Freborg 42:46
I want to thank you for your time and this for this rich account of the history of the
Department of Nursing at Augsburg University.
C
Cheryl Leuning 42:55
Thank you. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
Oral history with Cheryl Leuning
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Show less
Oral history with Sue Nash, 2018
Tue, 3/9 3:37PM
1:05:50
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, students, nursing, nurses, bev, year, classes, program, rochester, credits, curriculum,
college, taught, moved, south dakota state, people, master, degree, director, minnesota
SPEAKERS
Joyce Miller, Sue... Show more
Oral history with Sue Nash, 2018
Tue, 3/9 3:37PM
1:05:50
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, students, nursing, nurses, bev, year, classes, program, rochester, credits, curriculum,
college, taught, moved, south dakota state, people, master, degree, director, minnesota
SPEAKERS
Joyce Miller, Sue Nash
J
Joyce Miller 00:07
Well, good afternoon Sue Nash. I'm so excited to be with you today. Thank you for joining
us at our project for our oral history at Augsburg University nursing. My name is Joyce
Miller. And I am Chair of the Nursing Department. Could you please introduce us for the
recording and tell us about your history with the University.
S
Sue Nash 00:33
My name is Sue Nash and I came here when the original program was being developed.
I'm part of the first second year faculty teaching faculty. I came here from South Dakota
State School of Science. Their program had a program here in Minneapolis, and they
closed our program back in the end of 76. And several of us were recruited to come on
over to Augsburg and be part of the second year so I wasn't here during the first year,
Donna Peterson who was the director at Lutheran deaconess, over at Fairview. When they
close the Fairview program, she became the first director here at Augsburg, and was our
program considered a day school or it was 100% Day School, you had to be employed a
minimum of six months, you had to be working full time. Coming into it, it had to be that
you had at least six months of full time employment under your belt. And with Day School
only. We didn't switch to weekend college until several years later, when St. Kate's
developed a weekend program. And we found our numbers dropping. And that Rick Toni
story. He developed weekend college and moved us to weekend college because it was
thoughts of closing the nursing program because our numbers were so low.
Oral history with Sue Nash, 2018
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J
Joyce Miller 02:12
So our original program that was was a generic or traditional BSN program or
S
Sue Nash 02:20
no always we are the first completion program or our aunts who wanted to BSN in the
state of Minnesota. And we were we were the only one that that was designed with them
in mind. So we never had a generic program. The only generic program was located
across the street at Fairview with Lutheran deac, which was a three year diploma
program. And they were closing out the diploma programs. And Augsburg used to provide
the electives for the Lutheran deaconess students so they would get their English and
chemistry and science over here at Augsburg, so we had this long term relationship with
them. And Donna Peterson was the director of that program. Okay, so when they came
here, she moved her program or her vision over here.
J
Joyce Miller 03:09
Okay. Very interesting. Very, and that was in what year? Did you say it? Well,
S
Sue Nash 03:14
I started in 77. So that would have been 76 was the first class to begin. And we were not
accredited at that point. I mean, we were brand new program. And, and then, I think was
Pam Larson was the other faculty member thing. And Donna, and then they recruited
Beth Nillson and myself from Augsburg from not to Augsburg from South Dakota State
because they haven't I taught at South Dakota State.
J
Joyce Miller 03:49
Very interesting. Well, before we actually continue, I just want to make sure to confirm that
you consent to be interviewed, and to have this interview stored at Augsburg University
and be made available to the public.
S
Sue Nash 04:05
Absolutely.
J
Joyce Miller 04:07
Oral history with Sue Nash, 2018
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So let's instead of going switching from Augsburg a little bit, let's tell us a little bit about
yourself. And you want to tell us about perhaps where you grew up and a little bit about
your family.
S
Sue Nash 04:18
I was raised mainly in Minnesota, born in Iowa and moved to Minnesota when I was in
fourth grade. And my mother was a nurse. My father was a Methodist minister, and we
would move every two to six years when I was growing up. And my mother had a diploma
degree and always wanted a four year college degree. So that was one of the things in the
back of my head that I always had heard about. I wanted to be an English teacher or an
archaeologist. But I decided that the teacher crunch hit around the time of when I was
headed to college in the late 60s. And I couldn't envision myself teaching eighth graders
how to diagram sentences and it really wasn't Wasn't what I wanted and my father had
wanted me to be a nurse and and that was partly the a woman can always get a job as a
nurse, you know, that's sexist kind of narrative. And what they did is my dad got me a job
in an old folks home and the nuns and he conspired to help me understand how much I
would like nursing. So they put me on a floor of very high functioning independent people.
And I would do hair and help with bathing and, and they would give me a little Madeira
wine on the on the evenings, but just very dear people who I fell in love with, and, and then
slowly they work me into physical care, and some of the more, you know, intensive things.
So I did. I went by first year of college, I went to Morehead State, and majored in English.
And like I said, I decided this wasn't going to cut it for me. I didn't want to teach eighth
graders. And so I applied to the University of Minnesota Well, I looked into and got
accepted at Hibbing Junior College, we had terrible uniforms, they were these long gray
things. And I would have had to go two more years, I had one year done. And again,
seeing what had happened with my mom. And this, my mother had tried multiple times to
go on to college, multiple times. And seeing how hard it was for the diploma grads to
move forward and to get get acknowledgement for the work that they did. I wrote to the
EU and I lied, and I said I have a two year degree from I have a year at Morehead. I have
two year degree from heavy, how many years will it take me to get my four year degree.
And they said three. And, and I was going that's six. I'm not great math. But and so I went
ahead and applied to the you right away. And I got in that that next fall, I actually had
gone to visit the EU and the acting director, Dr. Harris was was in that day and interviewed
me waved my interview process. And I needed to take a few prereqs. And I did that over
the summer, going between two towns 60 miles away, and I did my labs for biology in one
town and my chemistry labs in another town and mornings and the other towns.
J
Joyce Miller 07:21
Oral history with Sue Nash, 2018
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Wow.
S
Sue Nash 07:22
But But I was able to get in. And so I got my my bachelor's then in that one year time. And
then during that time, I still had this thing about teaching, because I really had a heart for
teaching. And I worked my way through school, first of the old folks home where I had, I
had gone and actually my after my first communications class, my first therapeutic
communications class, I came home at Christmas, and they put me in charge of the St.
Francis. Oh, my I was night charge nurse. And it was it was it was very frightening. But But
I, I didn't have a lot of money. And back in the day of the U of M, if you took over 15
credits, you could take as many credits as you wanted, wow. And for the same fee. And so
I slammed away at classes. And I ended up having enough to graduate by the start of my
senior year. And I and they had a rule that if you're within so many credits graduating, you
could start your grad classes. So I began my grad classes in that, that spring semester, for
whatever I just took grad classes, and actually I think it was during that time. I think it
might have been in one of those classes or shortly after that I first met Beth Nillson,
because we were in a small group communications graduate class together. And years
later when our paths crossed, she remarked remember Well, she remembered me because
she's she put a note in her in her book that said Sue Nash's here decision took longer than
usual. So, so I and I, while I was in the nursing program, I worked at the Children's
rehabilitation unit at the University of Minnesota. And there was an LPN. And we worked
with children, who were there having all sorts of long term disability issues and treatment
and there was an LPN that used to terrorize the young children. She would if they like their
sandwiches cut in diamond, she would cut them. Yeah, lateral lines. They like to open
anytime She don't want to Yes. And it was it was painful to watch. And it was it was during
my senior year that I decided I was going to go back into teaching and I would teach
nursing to try To prevent people like that, from doing things like that, that's awesome. So,
so I went smack dab right on into my master's, finished it while I finished my bachelor's
and and met my husband during that year. He was finishing up and moving and I had a
deadline. So I went through. And, again, because you can take more credits, I slammed
away I got that Master's done in in 14 months.
J
Joyce Miller 10:30
Wow. And that was an education. Correct.
S
Sue Nash 10:32
Your nursing education was a double major back then you had to have kazillion credits. It
Oral history with Sue Nash, 2018
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was in child rearing. They had child rearing childbearing. And so I had an educational
track and a pediatric family nursing track. So I had 64 grad credits by the time I was done.
J
Joyce Miller 10:53
So well, so let's kind of come back to Augsburg and say and kind of pick up that story,
then about how you ended up back at Augsburg twice. I understand.
S
Sue Nash 11:07
Yeah. Well, we, my husband and I, we got married. We moved out to Ohio, he decided to
go to medical school and we got came back to Minnesota here. And I started teaching at
I taught at Ohio State but then I came and I taught at the south South Dakota State
School science had no South Dakota State School and from Brookings, okay, they had a
focus here, and there's a surplus. They were in dorms over by where the stadium is now.
We had a building and our kids would, our students would go to the children's hospitals
and med surge had it was a way for them to get a broader clinical than they couldn't in
Brookings. There was that program was being closed because a lot of the South Dakota
students were staying in the state of Minnesota. And the legislature was upset about it, the
South Dakota legislature, so they closed our program at the same time as this program
was opening. And so several of us apply. And Bev Nillson and I were hired. And we were
still doing the curriculum, we were still working for accreditation, and we had the second
year. So I taught preceptorship. And it it has morphed into what is the leadership program
now the leadership class 405. But I was a preceptor teacher, and and it was much more
hands on back then what we did, because we were trying to get a credit in was a very
different accreditation process than today or wait, if it was we were an inab, because
J
Joyce Miller 12:50
Oh, sure.
S
Sue Nash 12:52
The the other one really wasn't around that much. So it was in inab. But with
accreditation. Most of the schools require the students to retake everything. And it was
our philosophy that the nursing classes should be recognized. And the other issue became
became the electives that students had taken at three are programs that many diploma
programs would bring, like the chemistry teacher from St. Thomas or Augsburg or
Wheaton College and bring them on campus teach the exact same course. But they
wouldn't. It wouldn't be accredited because it wasn't offered through Augsburg or
Oral history with Sue Nash, 2018
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Wheaton or so the students were taking English and sociology and psychology from
professors who taught those classes. But they but they weren't getting any money that
the college wasn't paying. They weren't paying tuition. And so so they were getting hurt.
And then we had this whole thing with the LPN to your programs for your programs. And
what we decided was we would use the state board as the test proved that they had their
nursing courses.
J
Joyce Miller 14:15
Okay,
S
Sue Nash 14:16
sure. And that decision was extremely controversial. I don't know anyone nationwide who
was doing that at the time, but it was a rigorous state board test, especially back in the
day. Yeah. And it covered all areas. But we also knew we had to have other tests. So we
designed we had a we had a skills lab and it is where the
J
Joyce Miller 14:42
And I was going to say where's the
S
Sue Nash 14:44
main hall
J
Joyce Miller 14:45
We own old main we own all the first floor of Old Main was an old Main or Memorial.
That's my Memorial
S
Sue Nash 14:55
Memorial we on the first floor of it till the T to the bathrooms okay. There were dormitories
up above.
J
Joyce Miller 15:01
Yes.
Oral history with Sue Nash, 2018
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S
Sue Nash 15:02
And then on that first floor at the way end, which was
J
Joyce Miller 15:06
the President, I think was why the President is still there today. Okay, that was a skills lab.
S
Sue Nash 15:12
So the students had to show they could make beds. We had IVs, we, you know, I mean,
they, they, it was a skills lab where we tested out skills. And then we did a therapeutic
communications test. And I think you took you took that when you came to Augsburg, we
were still that was the one test that was still thanks. So in the in the packet, and Beth
Nillson had been getting her doctorate in communications, it was her her love. And our
curriculum was a holistic curriculum, and she had created a nursing theory of feeling
states that as, as nurses, and we work with people, if we can help them move in their
feeling state to feeling positive, and self aware, and that they would be healthier. So our
curriculum was built around a bit, the feeling state theory, and, and this holistic approach.
So she felt that one of the big areas between the two year grants and the four year grants
is, is this idea of therapeutic communications and, and helping move from telling to, to
interacting with and then as needed confronting. So some of some of our classes were,
were based on, I'm not therapy, because that was not a nurses role, right? But definitely
therapeutic and perhaps challenging at times. And so she created this whole set, and we
all participated in it. vignettes in the skills lab, we had patients, pretend patients in the
skills lab, and then we would set up these different vignettes. And there would be right and
wrong responses. And our potential students had to take this skills test and
communications to see how they were doing. That still existed. Yeah. And in will five,
when, when we before you before you took three or five to enter into the program. You
had to take that, that test? Yeah, because that was one of the entry points. And so we
went we we, Donna Peterson had had helped set up the curriculum and, and the core
curriculum was modeled after some stuff coming out of California at Palo Alto, California.
Okay. So we had we had our terminal objectives and our outcome objectives. And then we
were working on trying to make everything fit in these classes. And And honestly, I can't
remember the numbers, but I know the numbers kept changing, you know, there was when
you look back, right, some of our classes, right and leadership became the preceptorship
became a leadership because leadership was the things that we felt the two year to four
year really needed. We can back up as an understanding of nurse theory and the
theoretical grounding the communication and having a broader skill base, and effective
therapeutic communication, leadership than the leadership be an expanded role. And and
ours was a preceptorship originally where they would go out and do project based in a
Oral history with Sue Nash, 2018
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clinical setting. Somewhere, we went all over the Twin Cities, we were at Stillwater prison,
we were at Gillette and environmental health. And, and I would go out and meet with my
students several times throughout the semester, and their preceptors traveling all around
Dakota County Public Health, Waconia, it was, it was really fun. Some of it I was doing
pregnant, which was a little scary when I realized how quickly I deliver. But I didn't know
that at the time. But that but the students had really hands on experiences. And then
public health, because that was an area. And we wanted our nurses to be able to
graduate and get a public health certificate. And so you needed to have a set number of
clinical hours public health. So our clinical hours were the preceptorship and the public
health. And we proved the skill lab with the skills lab. We could we could prove that they
had the settlement that the psychomotor skills we did require seems to me sometime in
the air that they take at some point they had to be taking that, you know, like the nurses
aide.
J
Joyce Miller 19:54
Oh, sure. Sure,
S
Sue Nash 19:55
sure. But by knowing that they came to us as professional nurse, I used the word
professional, they were not, they would not have been called professional at the time. as
nurses who were in practice, practice practicing nurses, they brought that skill base and
they had to have passed their boards. So we we had our nln program, we work diligently
on this report, we got the the threads to match and the level objectives and terminal
objectives. We went in, put our stuff into the nln, we had the the report, and they turned us
down. Wow. And so Chuck Anderson, Dr. Anderson, Bev Nillson, and myself
J
Joyce Miller 20:37
and Chuck Anderson was the president was the test and at the top of the universe, or
colleagues back
S
Sue Nash 20:41
then we were, we were Yep. And he was actually in this building in that corner office over
there. And nobody can see me but kitty corner, they Augsburg flew us to New York. And
we went and stayed overnight at some hotel, and we had a meeting, and the three of us
went in to the nln. board. And the board sat at this table, and we're at the one end and all
of these 30 people or so. And we had to defend. And it was the main issue was why we
Oral history with Sue Nash, 2018
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were giving them credit for what they were doing. And part of let me back up to what we
had bargained with, with the college. And our college was this block grant. Because we
had two year nurses in three year nurses from all different kinds of programs, all different
kinds of programs. We,
J
Joyce Miller 21:43
with a diploma degree
S
Sue Nash 21:45
with a diploma degree or AA degree, okay, we didn't want to hurt our diploma students by
getting the AA but you can make a better case for anywhere in North Central accredited
programs.
J
Joyce Miller 22:00
Correct.
S
Sue Nash 22:00
But but that diploma were off in these amazing programs, teaching amazing nurses how
to do amazing things, but they weren't bothering to get them accredited. So we decided
we would do a block grant for the nursing curriculum, regardless of whether you took two
years or three years. You know, we're sorry about that. But the other fact that we were
working with is a major in Augsburg College was generally 14 courses, might have been, 15
courses, some may even be 12. But we went with think we went with a four, Count 14, you
have to have your upper division bigger than your more equal to your lower division. So
our black grant, I think we went for seven and I think it dropped to six. Is it six now? The
black grant? What is?
J
Joyce Miller 23:01
Excuse me? Um, well, the total number of credits are you talking about are the number of
nursing courses and religion?
S
Sue Nash 23:11
No the number of nursing courses is still..?
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J
Joyce Miller 23:13
Okay, so we have seven nursing courses.
S
Sue Nash 23:16
And then how many undergrad blocked grant?
J
Joyce Miller 23:18
One vocation for life course right now. And we started out we're up to 32 credits for the
block grant, but we were we we jumped we were like 24. And then we pushed for 28.
S
Sue Nash 23:38
Yes.
J
Joyce Miller 23:38
And now recently, within the last couple of years, we've pushed up 32.
S
Sue Nash 23:42
So 32 and those are those are hourly credits. Yeah, the course so we're talking a block rate
of seven, it's seven times four, you know, right would be what that block grant was, but we
had to keep it. We had to nln was very clear, our upper division had to be more than the
lower division. Sure, but that hurt the diploma grads, because they came with nothing.
buku
J
Joyce Miller 24:11
Yeah. A lot of classes. Yeah, but not college credit. Not college credit. Right. But
S
Sue Nash 24:16
our our best compromise was to go with this block grant. That Yes, it hurt some others.
Then the other piece of it in the college. way it works is you need to have somebody for
residency, right? So even if someone did come in with a lot more, you still have to be
stamped as a resident of our college, right? So it didn't it didn't matter if we gave too
many more credits away because it still have to take credits here anyhow. And we felt it
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was better to take from us in the nursing department, then the humanities or the science
or why let those departments have have our student credits
J
Joyce Miller 24:59
right So,
S
Sue Nash 25:00
so that was that was the argument and we went before the inab plan. And actually, it was
Bev and I who did the talking? Dr. Bev who wasn't a doctor at that time, was very, very
passionate and articulate. And we were able to help them understand that this this board
that we take the state board is worthy of recognition and validation of extensive
coursework, and we were getting them all their coursework, correct. We're still
shortchanging and, and the, the diploma students would still have to take the coursework,
the chemistry, the science, and that wasn't our fault. And it was too bad. But that's that's
back at Lutheran deaconess, although Lutheran deaconess in their defense did couple at
Augsburg. So they were doing it the right way. But I think of places like Wheaton, in
Wheaton, Illinois, we had students who came in wonderful, wonderful transcripts, but none
of it was accredited because all the all the classes have been taught by Wheaton
professors, but none of them were validated and credited. And part of that, to be fair, is
they wanted to give the teach us chemistry course, that was a health related chemistry
course. So really wasn't a Gen Gen Ed. chemistry course. And, and so it isn't quite the
same with my students. But in response to our going there, they approved us and we have
been continually approved and accredited since since that 7870.
J
Joyce Miller 27:00
Wow. So So our program at Augsburg has been, quote, BSN completion. I don't know if it
was called
S
Sue Nash 27:14
that. Yeah, yeah. We call it the BSN. Okay, really started in about 70. Our first class
graduated in 78 and 78. Spring of 78. Okay. And I can't remember how many students I'm
sure you have the records of that we had, we had to two sections of preceptorship and
two, you know. And maybe, and Pam Larson was the public health person. Okay. And, and
honestly, I can't fully I think I taught trans. And I may have taught theory, I know I taught
theory later when the second time around. And what what I heard I, we moved away, my
husband started residency. And so in 1980, in 1980, we moved away. Think which baby was
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being born. He finished medical school, we moved down to to Durham, and he went to
Duke. And then during that time, so in the early 80s, St. Kate started their head on
competition,
J
Joyce Miller 28:34
because because they were the only ones were we the only the only BSN completion
program in Minnesota,
S
Sue Nash 28:42
I think. So the U of M, allowed students to test. They made them take it off. They made
them take it off. Repeat it. And then I don't know when Bethel started their program, but
they came later. That program came later. St. Kate's is the one that that's you know, they
had a four year program. Right. And so they created a weekend college in the early 80s.
And it hit our numbers big time. And I think Metropolitan medical had something going.
And then Then there were the startup of the external degrees. So read what New York
external degree programs
J
Joyce Miller 29:23
Oh, sure. You know, so those
S
Sue Nash 29:25
so and so those were pop ups. And Scholastica started something eventually. But I don't
know when that you know, I wasn't I wasn't around, but in in 19, in the early 1980s, and Rick
Toni would would have a grasp of that way better than me. There was talk by then, Donna
had left and became the director. And Bev finished her doctorate in communications.
And, and one of the things about Beth Nillson that I just treasured was in working even
with our own colleagues. Ah, there was this thing about where where pseudo science,
we're not here, here at Augsburg. We're sort of second class at times. And and she always
said that we were lived liberal arts, that nursing is lived liberal arts.
J
Joyce Miller 30:17
And Bev said that,
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S
Sue Nash 30:19
yeah, yeah. Bev understood that the humanity that this college supports and the holistic
approach of and multicultural, which evolved into Bev understood that if you take
anthropology and the liberal arts and live it out, then we are the front runners. We're the
interface
J
Joyce Miller 30:43
Sure
S
Sue Nash 30:44
of that interaction, because we deal with the existential question, you know, in, in the
physical realm, every day,
J
Joyce Miller 30:55
right,
S
Sue Nash 30:56
and what more impact is the liberal arts education than when you hold the mother's hand
as she faces having a child in ICU at Children's, you know, or telling having to tell
someone that there's no more immunotherapy and now it's over
J
Joyce Miller 31:17
right.
S
Sue Nash 31:17
So, so having that bevs vision, really, I think brought us into that next level. And, and we
moved again, I was gone at that time, we moved to the weekend college model. And that
was in the, I think, in 80s, sometime sometime between 83 and 85.
J
Joyce Miller 31:41
Okay. Okay.
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S
Sue Nash 31:43
And we had moved down to Rochester. My husband and I finished his his surgical
internship year moved to Rochester. And we were, we were living there. And what year did
you start at Augsburg?
J
Joyce Miller 32:05
98 when it came to Rochester?
S
Sue Nash 32:09
Okay, so in 98, I was approached by Rick Toni. Yeah, in the spring of 98. And he asked me,
if I would, and maybe Beth Nillson, too, because Bev was, was the chair at that time. They
asked me if I would consider coming back to Augsburg, and I had loved teaching at
Augsburg. At the time, I had gone back to school, within some of those journeys, right and
had gotten another masters. My master's was in pediatrics and Family Nursing. I went
back and got another Master's in parent education. And I was teaching at that early
childhood family ed program in Rochester, and and truly loved loved that I didn't have to
grade students. Unless they were court ordered and not that's a different issue. I did. I
avoided that as soon as possible. But so I really was hesitant in at first I told them, no, but I
recruited Mary Beth gay. And Mary Beth had been teaching at RCTC. She has a pediatric
background. She's a clinical specialist, and I recruited her she was interested. And then I
got the call from either Rick or Babs saying, we have 65 students.
J
Joyce Miller 33:30
Can you can I was one of them. You were one
S
Sue Nash 33:32
of them. And so we, we, I came on board. And yeah, we and I was for a while I was working
two jobs because I do days. That's right. And then, and then I also finished my doctorate. I
thought I'd go and I had worked on a doctorate. In between that before in adulthood. I'd
looked into the nursing program one and then long story short, I went back and got my
doctorate in early childhood family, right. Yeah.
J
Joyce Miller 34:05
I remember I remember having you in. I think one of the classes that I was in and you were
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finishing your doctorate, and we celebrate it together. We went out for dinner after class.
Cuz here's 2001 was that the year? Yeah. Okay.
S
Sue Nash 34:21
Yeah, so that was that was pretty special. Getting that and, and then sometime in those
80s, and that's when Cheryl leuning was at Augustana. And again, she could speak more
to that. We've, they developed the habit developed a nursing research theory seminar
that would happen annually, it was an annual, they'd have a nurse theorist come here in
Augsburg and it was a conference. Wow. And I think, Madeline Leininger at least once I
think and and some of the other You know, Newman was at the you. Yeah. Watson. Right,
you know, so she would have the nurse theorist. And and within that somehow she met
Cheryl.
J
Joyce Miller 35:10
And maybe the year that Madeline came.
S
Sue Nash 35:13
Yeah. And and so then they co-taught some and, and but we really, there had always
been a concern about the holistic approach and being culturally respectful and culturally
sensitive. And that was part of Bev's heart. And then Bev and I, I never, I never was part of
the comments because I was down, and I left before it, and then was in Rochester. But that
was that's true heart. And so she started the comments. And that was all on our own time.
You know, giving, right?
J
Joyce Miller 35:57
Cuz she was a member of the church, convinced them to Central Lutheran and give them
their space, and to use it for nursing experiences for nurses to work with the homeless.
S
Sue Nash 36:08
Yeah, yeah.
J
Joyce Miller 36:10
No, that's awesome. So when the program came to Rochester, and you and Mary Beth
kind of started that, were those the same classes that were taught in Minneapolis?
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S
Sue Nash 36:24
Oh yes,yes, it was a it was. So the
J
Joyce Miller 36:27
curriculum, actually nothing changed or not?
S
Sue Nash 36:30
Well, the curriculum had evolved by that point,
J
Joyce Miller 36:32
right.
S
Sue Nash 36:33
So there was, you know, the communications class, the theory class, the leadership class
preceptorship, was dropped. The year when I first came, we still had our leadership.
Because it was sort of my thing. I like this nurses doing, doing a project. And so, so if you
had me in leadership, you were doing a project and actually, that's how we got Pine
Ridge. That's it was it was Audrey, one of my students had a had a Oh,
J
Joyce Miller 37:10
you know, where you donate, doesn't it? Well, wasn't she? Well, I
S
Sue Nash 37:15
think she had, I don't know if you know, like you to find somebody
J
Joyce Miller 37:18
sponsor somebody, somebody else.
S
Sue Nash 37:21
And so she had a bit of a relationship in Pine Ridge. And she came to me and asked if she
could create a clinical option, because I was having everybody do go out. And yeah, we
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did things with United Way. You know, we were all over the city. That's, that was sort of my
preceptorship model. And she said could could we take students to South Dakota? And I
went, sure, yeah. She helped. She helped some of the relationships. And we set that up
and took students to South Dakota State at the retreat center there with Larry, Larry
Peterson. Was the pastor and
J
Joyce Miller 38:06
three pastors later, but yes, his heart was, but he's still around. Is he still around?
Somebody was recently at Pine Ridge. And, and he came as part of a he's still doing
projects and service for the area. Yeah.
S
Sue Nash 38:24
So so out of the priests, the leadership program, we had several initiatives start we
actually, there is a free Clinic in Rochester that it was Carol, Laurie Keith, and some of her
partners. We set up that whole model and then went on to state.
J
Joyce Miller 38:44
But yeah, but
S
Sue Nash 38:47
yeah, yes, that's okay. That's a yes. But so some of the classes morphed and changed. And
I think there's a 330.
J
Joyce Miller 38:55
Yeah, under trends and issues used to be called 330. And then it switched to 300. Yeah,
whatever reason?
S
Sue Nash 39:02
Well, and sometimes when you change when we changed the objectives, we needed to
change the course numbers for clarity of tracking as students come and go. But yeah, so
So Mary Beth and I were there. And then Mary Beth got recruited away by rctc, Rochester
community college, to become their director. So that was a loss. But what happened is she
loved the Augsburg curriculum. And so together we formed a pathway, right for the
students to come. And I was I would come and talk to the leadership classes. Tell them at
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all about Augsburg and help them see how to make it work right. Libby Hazlitt was
wonderful as a as a facilitator. She was, I don't know what her role was, it was she wasn't in
nursing, but she, she would come. And she would come and help help with that. And then
regrettably Scholastica and unknown and somebody other schools found out about what
we're doing, because we were really getting a lot
J
Joyce Miller 39:10
of Yes,
S
Sue Nash 39:31
yes. And and when no one I had some really tough hurdles. They were we always said they
were our best recruiter, because they made it so difficult.
J
Joyce Miller 40:34
They did. Well, they only had classes on Wednesdays and always in the daytime. And so
you had to be part time. But yeah, other programs are kind of wising up. Yeah. After
they've kind of saw what, how we took the market in Rochester. And, you know, but we're
still have a great relationship with RCTC. And we're doing a mentoring program there
right now, where their students come to Augsburg. And so we were approached by the
director and said, they're kind of losing some students, and primarily students, like
homeschooled students that come and so they come in almost as you know, sophomores
in in the university. And they the director said, they just can't quite see themselves as
nurses. And so how do we help them see that nursing? Is this career for you? How do you
help them see that there is a great job at the end of nursing, because what was happening
as nurses are coming into their program, and they were losing them quite rapidly. And so
we now have developed this mentoring where, I don't know we'll have two or three
different nights, students from rctc will sign up, they'll come to Augsburg. We've you know,
you know, we feed them to give them a sense of community. And and then they spend
time with the nursing 300 class. And they have activities, they break into small tables,
they, the nurses can answer what it's like to be in practice. And so we're really hoping that
this is a kind of a neat recruitment tool that that students will be able to. Well, I you know,
it's funny at the last profession rctc advisory board, you know, the director, actually was
talking about this mentorship program with Augsburg and I thought, Oh, you're saying
that and you've got other people from other universities here? But yeah, so. So we still
have I mean, we still go to RCTC, and you know, yeah, bring in food, pizza and bagels, I
see that relationship,
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S
Sue Nash 43:04
you have an asset, because Augsburg cares about the students. And I think that the the
advising that we did, and helping them understand that, that we want them to succeed,
we want them to grow. And, and I and I said the word professional nurse. And when we
started, there was this big debate about is the professional nurse at the Baccalaureate
level, and I was on the state, Minnesota State Board of Nursing. Committee exploring,
should we have the definition of professional nurse be tied to the four year degree? Oh,
that's right. So I served on the committee. And what I've, and I thought back to my mother,
and what an amazing professional she was. And I thought, you know, we do such a
disservice by minimizing our sisters and brothers and belittling the, you know, they sit for
the same task. They're passing the test, sometimes better than the four year. So they're
doing something right. So let's give them the respect and dignity and dignity and
acknowledge the hard work of trying to cram all that they do in two years. Right. And so I
always use the term professional nurse. Always. And yeah, I think I think that's something
that that Augsburg does and and it's sometimes the subtle things that are so important,
because you definitely felt belittled by somebody other institutions, and why you come in
that it wasn't worthy. We did change things. I think we started making that you didn't have
to have a full time job or part time job he did. And we took brand new grads.
J
Joyce Miller 45:05
And that was that an issue.
S
Sue Nash 45:08
Brand new grads, brand new, Rusty and original, originally, they had to have
J
Joyce Miller 45:13
so many layers
S
Sue Nash 45:14
of six months to a year of, of experience. And part of it was get them while they're going,
you know, they're going to school they're used to going. So then when they what we did is
when they came, they had to have a job. They could they could take, they could come as
a brand new grad, but they had to get a job. So they were having real life experience.
Again, this this whole thing about is it valid if you're not having the right clinical
experience. And I think there's still discussion to be had I you know, and I'm a strange one
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to have it because I started my Masters while I was an undergrad and I got my I started
teaching. Before I ever had a full time I don't know that I've ever had a full time 40 hour a
week Rn job. I worked always as a as a nurse and throughout I worked at Children's in St.
Paul, I worked in the rehab unit at the University of Minnesota. I worked at Children's in
Columbus, you know, I worked at St. Mary's, but you know, the old those who can't do
teach,
J
Joyce Miller 46:23
is that right? Yeah,
S
Sue Nash 46:24
I think and I think that credibility is is an ongoing issue and, and but the critical thinking
the critic in learning to ask the questions. the right questions. That isn't about how many
bedpans you empty. Right? Yeah. That's a that's a different issue. And nursing is bigger
than then that's limited scope of just bedside I mean, we know that now from from
community and public and and transcultural nursing, you know, and, and, and where we
go with our professions.
J
Joyce Miller 47:06
So, you came into the Rochester, BSN program, Mary Beth was director Mary Beth left and
you became director Mary Beth is never the director in Rochester. No,
S
Sue Nash 47:21
no, no, she's never the director. She gets she got hired. But before we even started, I was I
was rehired back. Okay, yeah. bap was the coordinator. That was the other, but I took
over the lead right from the get okay. Yeah. Okay. Just came out. Yeah. And, and, and so I
would be the one going to Minneapolis, right. You know, with Bev. Right. And, and Rick
and I, you know, just coordinated the food and right, all of that kind of stuff. Right. Right.
So,
J
Joyce Miller 47:59
and then how were you involved? I know, Augsburg started a master's program, as well as
a doctorate program in transcultural nursing. And so I know you've had involvement with
that as well with
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S
Sue Nash 48:14
the with the masters. What we began doing this was one of the things was making sure
that the students could get master credits again, you know, that they could start their
masters if they and that was part of, you know, being on the curriculum committee. Right.
And I have I have a strong background in curriculum. I have graduate courses, because
my degree was in education. So I had taken curriculum design and and so
J
Joyce Miller 48:46
I know you mentored me.
S
Sue Nash 48:49
And look where you are, I
J
Joyce Miller 48:52
thought that what happened,
S
Sue Nash 48:54
where you're supposed to be. But so the the, the idea with the Masters, which is a
wonderful, wonderful, transcultural master's program, was was conceptualized and
brought together by the whole team here. And then we began the flipping and teaching it
from place to place and and bringing students up to the cities and students from the
cities down to here. And I think, I think one of the things that I had hoped, and again, I
probably just didn't have the energy because I was really focusing on building the
Baccalaureate, to grow people for the Masters, right, was to expand some of the
community health based rural rural outreach, like the rural kinds of stuff with the Amish
and things like that. And I think eventually somebody has happened a little bit but I think
it's a rich opportunity down there. And then Rochester is such a diverse place. What Were
you languages spoken in the schools and things, but there's a lot of opportunity there. The
doctorate I was part of that curriculum team. And, and, and looking at how we pull that I
had nothing to do with it with the nurse practitioner program, right, I was sort of after I left
and is in my area of expertise, we looked at that, and I was part of those some of those
discussions and trying to see how we could make it a holistic, transcultural. I'm one of
those people I know like in that in the research, I like the and I like the scientific and the,
the, you know, intuitive and, and I like being bilingual in that way. That would be
something that, that you would have heard my voice going, we need to keep this this year,
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too, you know. And then one of the things that I what I did do with a masters or poor baby
masters, they we had 28 or more who had fallen off the track of dissertation. And so I
came up with a plan that if they were willing to do the work, I was willing to come
alongside them. And we created the seminar to try to end the madness, and make it an
achievable, doable thing in the seminar. Well, and there was some discussion that if they
didn't finish it in the one semester they they were out. And that that wasn't that was not
good. Yeah, it wasn't good. Yeah, it was, it was painful for everyone. So I think we made it
a two semester and
J
Joyce Miller 51:45
that's still there. And that was it, it helps. I'd say 95% we still have a few people fall off
because they don't quite finish writing their master's project, but very few. We never finish
we knew had that was Yeah,
S
Sue Nash 52:06
that was an It was exciting. Incredible time to to see that. And I knew from doing my
doctorate and my dissertation, I go in and I hear see and I was I think I'd hand it to the
end and she'd go just the the redlining. Track Changes. Oh, man. And, and I and I, I firmly
believe that we wanted rigor, I was a firm believer in rigor and, and that, that we want our
students to be able to go toe to toe with any student from any other department of
nursing any other college and be proud of their degree, we didn't get degrees away and it
wasn't online, you know, go to your neighbors and have him sign off on stuff. It It was a
rigorous degree and, and learning in that master's thesis project, of what academic rigor
is, that you know, that they learn how to critique journal articles and how to how to see
rigor. I felt that was really important. And I know it's controversial. It'd be nice to also have
Ruth, you got the interview route, we have to love her dearly. You know, because she and I
would go back and forth on this. And and then I actually my kids, all of my four children all
have advanced degrees. And my daughter's degree I her thesis was from St. John's was
thin. And I thought maybe I'm just old school. So but I didn't mind when I was helping the
students helping them to mentor and
J
Joyce Miller 54:03
yeah, we want that to happen now. How long has it been since you've been retired?
S
Sue Nash 54:07
Is it six years? Six
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J
Joyce Miller 54:08
years? Wow. Six
S
Sue Nash 54:10
years seven grandchildren. I'm at 14 and a half 14 and a half grandchildren at the age of
14 the oldest will be 15 next month but youngest is a year urine
J
Joyce Miller 54:24
Oh my I know I saw a picture recently of all your grandchildren on your back step but your
cabinet or your all men the lake and it was like this family keeps just blessing you with
more and more and more.
S
Sue Nash 54:38
Now I'll be taking two five year old cousins and granny sojourn today tomorrow and the
next day before kindergarten starts. Oh fun. Yeah, that's been really good. And I were
down in Florida. And we've found a church there that's very diverse and very multi
generational and multi race and I go With the mentoring program there, enjoy. So I work
with young moms. And
J
Joyce Miller 55:07
yeah, it's exciting. So have you considered kid always kept Augsburg nursing in your heart?
And
S
Sue Nash 55:13
it is definitely in my heart, but I'm not coming back.
J
Joyce Miller 55:21
If you're around, if you have any advice, for those of us that are still here and teaching
you, have you, given any thoughts? I know, that's kind of off the top of my head question.
You know, where do you see where do you see I partment of nursing dogs for again, I don't
know, 10 years
Sue Nash 55:45
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S
Sue Nash 55:45
figuring out how to deal with tech, it tech, artificial intelligence, what it's going to do, I'm
concerned about watching what's happening at the bedside, with the computer being the
interactional force. And that that relational piece is nurses are under so much pressure to
do the documentation, the epic and everything else, that they're back is turned to the
patient all the time. And, and then then you do see some wonderful, wonderful examples.
But it's going to be interesting, it's going to be interesting in the shortages, as the shortage
continues how when, when the cost effectiveness, you know, I have, I have a niece, who is
a mother of an 18 year old images of mature one who just finished her two year grad
degree. Her only degree is a two year grad. And she's been trained to be supervisor Night
Nurse and OB maternity ward down in Oklahoma. And the other three women with her
also just graduated, and the four of them are going to cover nights at this hospital outside
of Muskogee. And you're going, wait a minute, you know, my I have a little granddaughter
who just was in Minneapolis children's with ICU last week, it was sort of scary. And she's
doing well. But my daughter said, Yeah, the nurse said here's her medicine and walked out
and let the mom give the medicine, my daughter get the medicine and it was like there's
this stuff going on this stuff going on? I think it's the pressure. It's too too few people too
much time. And we're going to be faced with how we stand for the profession. And stand
for the quality. Protecting our patients. Yeah. Because it's, yeah. And what's going on? And
yeah, we won't go to politics.
J
Joyce Miller 57:56
No, that's that's for sure.
S
Sue Nash 57:58
And this too, shall pass one way or the other. But no, I think I think it's the technology and
how we don't let it replace us. And onus I think that's going to be that's an interesting I
think we should be on the forefront of it. To make it human. I don't know how we do that.
J
Joyce Miller 58:23
And I agree with you in technology, many students, little mini students now that are
wanting to do their programs, more online, you know, less, you know, sit at home at night,
you know, and and we struggle with how how do you keep those relationships, you know,
if you're just doing your assignments, and you're posting them at midnight, and you're not
interacting with very many of your other students.
Oral history with Sue Nash, 2018
Page 24 of 27
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
S
Sue Nash 58:55
That conversation before it's, it's, there's a synergy that happens when when you say
something and I say something and you think and we need that we need that flip around
and and if they do it online, and the three of them are doing it. Maybe that's how it is that
it's a round robin online. It's handed in.
J
Joyce Miller 59:17
Right. But it would have to be synchronous online versus asynchronous and yeah, yeah. So
I I worry sometimes what's happening to some of the some of the Augsburg you know,
some of the courses that are just taught online, just totally online. What What does this
actually do for the nurses that are taking these online courses and there is no
S
Sue Nash 59:49
because we, especially the two year nurses to four year, especially that helping them
become social lized into their professional. It's a mentoring. And it isn't just the facts. It's
the heart. And I don't know and again, how they, how they find the computer at the
bedside, how they say, I'm not going to turn it back on my patient. How do they do that?
When when all of administrators are saying, you do that, and we can, we can raise a
group of nurses who go out into the community, that's all wonderful. But there's a whole
portion of our nurses who are going to go back to the bedside, and helping those nurses
understand how to how to reach out and touch. Then maybe some of it is through, you
know, the Reiki and the healing. You know, maybe we need to beef that up. The good old
fashioned back row, every Augsburg, nurse, we've dealt back. I mean, think about that just
even a shoulder and neck rub. Right? Well do it on their players. That would be that would
be an interesting, it'd be an interesting research project to have nurses do a shoulder neck
rub on peers, and how it affects the climate and colleague relationship.
J
Joyce Miller 1:01:28
Well, is there anything else that you want to share that maybe you haven't thought about?
Or
S
Sue Nash 1:01:36
I wish I could find that client goals theory that I thought I had it, I looked for it that Bev
had written it, and Bev had written it with another colleague, and have wanted to publish
it. And then she and the colleague had a falling out years ago. And so she couldn't publish
Oral history with Sue Nash, 2018
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it, by yourself by yourself, because it was co authored.
J
Joyce Miller 1:02:00
Anyhow,
S
Sue Nash 1:02:02
doesn't matter who it was. But in there, you know, that one is gone now. But, but it was an
interesting approach, an interesting theory of how we interact with our clients, and what
our goal is, and helping them the client goal theory is that we would assess their feeling
states and use that as the indicator for how how they're progressing towards their health.
J
Joyce Miller 1:02:30
That's really interesting. I've never ever heard that. I know Bev's love was communication
and therapeutic communication. But
S
Sue Nash 1:02:40
if I can find I never heard that believe I ever got rid of that. But there are boxes and boxes
and boxes. And there there have been other people then through the years patio came
grandmother, she was from Augsburg from South Dakota with a with us and she was
pediatric she came on board and and took over she took over public health. For a while.
Helen waffle was another person they taught with and and Helen did some of the
communications and theory and some of those classes for people who are gone. There's
others that then I disappeared. Wow. No, I think that's all I wish you well.
J
Joyce Miller 1:03:26
Well, thank you so much sue for taking the time and sharing. I loved hearing the historical
background, because, you know, my association with Augsburg kind of started in 98. So I
have a pretty good history from there. But it was the 70s and the start. How we I mean, I
just think of the creativity of valve. And Bev, she has this vision. Yeah.
S
Sue Nash 1:03:56
To keep us here, because there were multiple times before the PA program. We were the
only professional program Professional Studies program on campus. Wow. And so we
were seeing as a stepchild that some they they had to have us because we brought in
Oral history with Sue Nash, 2018
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some money, you know, and it was sort of the owed to Lutheran Deac because deaconess
closed and they had these students and but, you know, we were we were an
embarrassment, I think in some ways, because we had hands on. And it was interesting
through the years, because we used to have that whole wing of that ward and then right
then we lost this. And it just kept getting smaller and smaller. And I came back and we had
two offices in a foyer
J
Joyce Miller 1:04:50
and it was like wait a minute.
S
Sue Nash 1:04:52
We're better than this. So you know because we we we are we are lived liberal arts. It's It's
It's humanities in its purest form, and worthy of a place on main floor,
J
Joyce Miller 1:05:13
right, right. Yeah, that's true. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank
S
Sue Nash 1:05:20
you. Okay.
J
Joyce Miller 1:05:28
Here we go. That's awesome. That went beautifully. I skipped all of these health commons,
because I really wasn't your know your but that was really very interesting. I love it.
Oral history with Sue Nash, 2018
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Show less
Oral History Interview with Janet
Labrecque (2020)
Tue, 3/9 4:51PM
20:57
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, nursing, nurses, bev, fairview, department, rocking chair, hospital, faculty, university,
work, center, nursing program, teaching, started, people, open, inspirations, stories, wonderful
... Show more
Oral History Interview with Janet
Labrecque (2020)
Tue, 3/9 4:51PM
20:57
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
augsburg, nursing, nurses, bev, fairview, department, rocking chair, hospital, faculty, university,
work, center, nursing program, teaching, started, people, open, inspirations, stories, wonderful
SPEAKERS
Kathleen Clark, Janet Labrecque
Kathleen Clark 00:00
So thank you for joining us today for this oral history project on the Department of Nursing
at Augsburg University. My name is Katie Clark. I'm the director of the health commons
and assistant professor, could you please introduce yourself for the recording and tell us a
little bit about your connection to the university?
J
Janet Labrecque 00:19
Well, I'm Janet Labrecque. I am Bev's partner. I've known Bev since 76, just before she
became a faculty member in 77. So my connection to Augsburg and the nursing center
and School of Nursing is thrilled to have her friends on the faculty.
Kathleen Clark 00:44
And just for as this will be recorded in the library for a long time. Will you tell us a little bit
about who Bev is.
J
Janet Labrecque 00:54
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Who Bev is. Bev is a just a wonderful individual who has a big heart who found her way as
a nurse and from there became a nursing instructor and faculty member and head of the
department and founder of the nursing center and started the Rochester nursing program
in Rochester and helped develop the transcultural nursing curriculum and was very active
in university on many levels.
Kathleen Clark 01:46
So she was the founder of the nursing department?
J
Janet Labrecque 01:48
No, she wasn't the founder. there when she was hired, there was a department head but
the department was going through a real bumpy times. And after about a year as
Professor, she became the department chair. And I understand that she turned the
department around very nicely. I say her that is the reputation that she has.
Kathleen Clark 02:21
Yes. One more thing before we continue as I just want to make sure our confirm that you
can send to be interviewed and having an interview stored at Augsburg university library
which will be made available to the public?
J
Janet Labrecque 02:36
I do.
Kathleen Clark 02:38
Wonderful. So, can you tell me a little bit about how that ended up at Augsburg? Do you
know why she chose to come to Augsburg? Um, well, she was she was teaching a course. A
couple of courses at North Dakota State University. She and somebody else use the
puddle jump, really small plane and go to some place in North Dakota. I think North
Dakota or South Dakota, it's in her I should have brought it. But and I think that got a little
old. And you know, Bev is she was lifelong is a lifelong Lutheran. And I do think that
Augsburg with its Lutheran connection was appealing to her in this faculty position open
and do your applied and they don't. That's awesome. And so where did she grow up?
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J
Janet Labrecque 03:46
She grew up. She was born in St. Paul. But they moved around quite a lot. Her father was
in the grocery business you'd like to be the manager of produce and they kind of move on
from one place to the other. So she grew up in St. Paul and Rochester. And then
Minneapolis, and she raised her family in St. Louis Park.
Kathleen Clark 04:14
And then do you know what kind of nurse was she? Was she ever in the hospital or was
she isn't she?
J
Janet Labrecque 04:20
Her first nursing was in Hennepin County in the open wards back back then. Yes, that's
how she started.
Kathleen Clark 04:34
Do you know why she wanted to be a nurse?
J
Janet Labrecque 04:46
How she never told me exactly. But she by nature is just an innately caring individual and
Back in the 50s, when she worked Sorry, go back to school for Bachelor of Science in
Nursing was one of the professions that women got into. So, but she also told me once
that she liked the idea. She wanted to be a nurse who was all who was a doctor that kind
of fascinated her. So but the nurse, the underlying the nurse, but, you know, she wanted to
have achieved that academic level of now to expertise.
Kathleen Clark 05:46
So where did she go to school?
J
Janet Labrecque 05:48
She, she went through University of Minnesota.
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Kathleen Clark 05:53
Was that her PhD?
J
Janet Labrecque 05:54
For for Bachelor of Science and a master's in psych nursing, and then a PhD in speech
communication.
Kathleen Clark 06:03
Wow. So she was a psych nurse.
J
Janet Labrecque 06:06
She was a psych nurse at Fairview on the adolescent unit.
Kathleen Clark 06:09
Interesting.
J
Janet Labrecque 06:10
That's how she got over to Fairview hospital. And then she worked closely with one of the
chaplains there, Bill Miller. Yeah. And, and they invited her to be on their advisory board.
And that's how I met her. interested.
Kathleen Clark 06:32
So how long did you work in the adolescent psych unit?
J
Janet Labrecque 06:40
I'd say four or five years.
Kathleen Clark 06:43
Wow. Interesting. So when she came to Augsburg insists she already has her PhD at that
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point, then
J
Janet Labrecque 06:52
no, she was working on her PhD.
Kathleen Clark 06:56
And when she took over the department, she hadn't had any other experiencing a being a
chair of any academic program. Wow. And so how long was she chaired? You remember?
J
Janet Labrecque 07:09
she? She retire... She was 70 when she retired? So 77 to 01. So she was chair probably 78
maybe 78 to 2001. Wow. Huge, stood a lot. And that was years ago. I mean, it was it was
good.
Kathleen Clark 07:37
So when she started out, was the Was it the transition period between the Fairview
deaconess program into Augsburg to remember? Or was it a BSN program? The BSN
completion? Or do you remember what program was there at that time when we really
started or was it? It wasn't the Masters?
J
Janet Labrecque 07:58
It was the transition. It was, you know, nurses who had their diploma diploma. And so they
were there to get their bachelor's?
Kathleen Clark 08:13
Wow. And then in her time, she started the master's program began in leadership and
transculture.
J
Janet Labrecque 08:20
Right.
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Kathleen Clark 08:21
So what drew her to be do was transcultural nursing, an emphasis for her all along or did
that come after she started the nursing center to remember which came first or they're
both kind of
J
Janet Labrecque 08:37
No, I think that came came later on. I think it was one of those things that was brewing.
Sure. I that that experience of Hennepin County, the wards there, there are lots of
homeless people, lots of minority people. And I do think that somehow that was an eye
opener for her. And was, I think one of the inspirations for the trans cultural sort of
wanting, wanting to equip nurses with the capacity to relate to and provide care that was
appropriate.
Kathleen Clark 09:31
So what was how did the nursing center are now called the Augsburg central health
Commons? How did that come about? Do you remember any of that?
J
Janet Labrecque 09:41
Well, Bill, Bill Miller pastor Bill Miller, who was at Fairview when he left Fairview hospital.
He was a pastor here at Central So, Bev had been mulling over this idea of nurses serving
the homeless, again, theme. And so she called him up one day and, and talk to him about
this dream she had about a nursing center run by nurses. And she was very clear that she
wanted it to be run by nurses because she wanted she, you know, she's believed strongly in
the profession of nurses and that nurses were could be were independent practitioners.
And this is long, big kind of before the nurse practitioners started. But she wanted this
model of nurses providing the care without not under the direction of a medical director.
She wanted it nursing centered, community centered. So So Bill agreed, and he found a
space down there, he actually came in and painted the walls on. He did, he did, and he
got furniture, and the two of them set up the place. But they had to, they had to convince
a number of people here at Central. There were there was a constituency here that were
concerned about, you know, having the homeless in and out of this place, and what you
know, the kind of the typical fears people have of street people. And so gradually, they,
you know, let go of their fears and or supportive of it. That place was also open on Sunday
for blood pressures and that kind of stuff for the parishioners as well. So that kind of
helped pave the way. But it was open on Monday, Thursday and Sunday. And Bev was
here. Lots of the time, I said to her one day. I said, You know, I think you'd be perfectly
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happy if you took your bed and slept down there was between teaching, running the
department and being at the nursing center. You know, I hardly saw her. You know, she
was like this ball of energy. And she just loved it here. She really did. She would tell me,
you know, come and tell me stories about some of the clients. They had their regulars that
came in, and then they had a big rocking chair. Did you ever see that rocking chair?
Kathleen Clark 13:01
I did.
J
Janet Labrecque 13:01
Yeah. And people would come in, and sometimes that the people that would come in and
just sit in the rocking chair, and then sit for a bit and then they'd get up and go, they didn't
need anything, but they just wanted to come in the rocking chair. The other thing she liked
a lot about it was hearing the stories of these people, you know, when they were soaking
their feet and having their feet cleaned and you know, refreshed, they would kind of open
up about their life. Wonderful. Yeah. Would you was a cooling closet happening when we
went to open? And they had a worship service? And I don't know if they had a meal at that
point. I'm not sure.
Kathleen Clark 13:51
And so as it open did she has, do you remember? Did she bring students in right away? Or
did she kind of feel it out herself first and then bring in students?
J
Janet Labrecque 14:02
I'm not sure. But I know she didn't do it alone. I know, there were faculty. Who didn't I don't
think if they didn't come right away. I'm sure it was not long after.
Kathleen Clark 14:17
Well, and now 27 years. Yeah,
J
Janet Labrecque 14:20
I know. So. Yeah.
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Kathleen Clark 14:23
So she's, she's organizing the department. She's teaching classes.
J
Janet Labrecque 14:29
Right.
Kathleen Clark 14:29
And she's here.
J
Janet Labrecque 14:30
Yep. Wow. And then so they're focusing on the BSN. But then the graduate program came
about Do you remember any of the reasons why she thought that would be a good fit or
how that came the master's transcultural or even leadership and leadership? Well, leaders
you know, she she believed in nursing as She was a strong proponent of the nursing
profession and believe that nurses could make a valuable contribution to health care.
While they were able to take leadership positions in hospitals and clinics and other places,
and so, so as a way to prepare for that she was big on the leadership piece. And the trans
cultural, I think she just believed that, you know, as the city got more diverse. And you
know, the, the challenges with offering nursing care to multi ethnic and multicultural
population was more and more important, and that she felt that if there were nurses
trained and transcultural, that they could be real change agents and hospitals. And her
inspirations for that, you know, Madeline leininger, you know, of that, you've heard that
name and she was big and transcultural. Every man fee was a local, very influential nurse
leader. I mean, those two people were really inspirational to Bev and I know Bev consulted
with a number of times.
Kathleen Clark 16:46
Wow. Is there any stories that you remember Bev sharing, in her time at Augsburg that
really stuck with you whether it was at the helm comm or a nursing center or teaching or
your department?
J
Janet Labrecque 17:04
Well, she told me where that one. The nursing department was started and it was started
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not long before about came. So it was it was still in its infancy, so to speak, when Bev
came that there were professors on the faculty that were very skeptical and really did not
want the nursing program because they, they didn't think that Augsburg was a place for
vocational training, and that the nursing program was would dilute the purity of the of the
liberal arts at Augsburg. And yeah, there was the there was a strong but vocal minority
that were very critical. And but Bev didn't argue with them. She just move forward. And
she said one day, one of the professors who was the most vocal, one of the most vocal
critics came into her office. And he said, I want you didn't know that. Among my students,
the best students I have in my class, my classes, other nursing students. She was so happy
to hear that. She wasn't she probably said something like, well, I'm really not surprised.
Anyway. Yeah. That's wonderful. Yeah.
Kathleen Clark 18:49
Well, I'm just so great to her grateful to be able to hear kind of the story of how Bev came
to be at Augsburg. And obviously, the foundational work for we're sitting in the health
common space right now. Is there anything you want the world to know? Before we end
this world history interview?
J
Janet Labrecque 19:24
That she loved her time. She loved being an expert. And she was very supportive,
supported and influenced by her faculty. She chose good faculty that worked well
together. And, you know, part of what inspired bad the Superman strong feminist You
know, not a Gloria Steinem in the street in your face. But she that feminist theory, feminist
theology really informed but what was an underpinning to what she wanted to do with for
students, she felt energized by empowering women to to reach their potential personally
and professionally. And that gave her a great deal of the light. You know, she caught
taught a course in feminist rhetoric rhetoric here.
Kathleen Clark 20:39
I did not know that.
J
Janet Labrecque 20:40
Yes, she did. I need to. Yeah. Yeah.
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Kathleen Clark 20:45
Wonderful. Well, thank you for your time and your work on this can complete our interview.
So I appreciate you being here.
J
Janet Labrecque 20:53
Thank you.
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Show less
Oral History Interview with Taylor Mattice,
2018
Mon, 3/8 9:41PM
15:18
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
katie, commons, class, doctor, experience, health, augsburg, talk, thought, volunteer, prescription,
debriefing, cares, people, hour, learning, homelessness, outreach, recording, minneapolis
SPEAKERS... Show more
Oral History Interview with Taylor Mattice,
2018
Mon, 3/8 9:41PM
15:18
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
katie, commons, class, doctor, experience, health, augsburg, talk, thought, volunteer, prescription,
debriefing, cares, people, hour, learning, homelessness, outreach, recording, minneapolis
SPEAKERS
Samantha Gibson, Taylor Mattrice
S
Samantha Gibson
00:01
Hello, my name is Samantha Gibson. I'm an AmeriCorps VISTA worker at the Augsburg
Central Health Commons. Here today with Taylor. Would you introduce yourself for the
recording, please?
T
Taylor Mattrice 00:10
Hi, I'm Taylor Mattrice.
S
Samantha Gibson
00:14
I just wanted to reaffirm your consent now that you're willing to have this recording this
interview, and the transcript stored at Augsburg University, where it will be made
available to the public.
T
Taylor Mattrice 00:25
Yes, I am.
Samantha Gibson
00:26
Oral History Interview with Taylor Mattice, Page
2018 1 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
S
Samantha Gibson
00:26
I want to note also, for this recording that we are recording at the Augsburg Central
Health Commons. I want to note also on- for this recording that we are recording at the
Augsburg Central Health Commons. So if there's any background noise, that would be
why. To get us started today, could you please tell me where you're from, where you grew
up and who you called family?. So if there's any background noise, that would be whyto
get started today, could you please tell me where you're from? Where you grew up? And
who you called family?
T
Taylor Mattrice 00:46
Um, I’m from Lino Lakes, Minnesota. It's a small suburb, just north of Minneapolis. I have a
mom and a dad and a sister. Do you want their names? No? Okay.
S
Samantha Gibson
01:04
How did you end up at Augsburg University? Um, I applied there and was deciding
between there and another school, the University of Minnesota I decided to go to
Augsburg because of its size and because I could play softball there. How did you become
involved with the Health Commons? I took a class with the president of the university and
he had us come volunteer a shift here as part of our class requirements, and then I enjoyed
it. So I continue to coming back. Why was it part of the class requirements?
T
Taylor Mattrice 01:41
We alert in the class we're learning about, like the gap between rich and poor, and just like
going a lot of places to see what it's like to be homeless or to experience homelessness.
So coming here and seeing how Katie works with them was something he wanted us to
do.
S
Samantha Gibson
01:58
What can you tell me about your experiences here at the health commons? Um, I think it's
been really eye opening. Um, just learning from Katie things that I never really have
thought of before, like, basically with mental health mostly she talked a lot about how we
always think that it's necessary to force medicate people and get them into hospitals, get
them institutionalized, but, it's like, her thought process is why are we right and why should
they have to be what we think they need to be. Why can't we just help them be what they
want to be? And that's something that was really cool to start thinking about because like,
yeah, who says we’re more right than they are, you know? And in addition to that, it's just
Oral History Interview with Taylor Mattice, Page
2018 2 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
kind of awesome to be able to see the same people like a couple times a week, and just
check in, they say- like see how their days going, um, get to know them. Some of them
have told me stories about their lives and it's really cool just how open they've been with
the short amount of time I've been here. Yeah. It sounds like an interesting shift in
perspective. How did your experience here fit or challenge your expectations, then? Um, I
think it- I don't really know if I had expectations. I, like, knew what it was kinda like, like
Katie was helping people but I expected more like actual nursing to be done, but it's more
just like support and yeah we'll check your blood pressure and whatnot. But this space, it
seems like it just like fosters an environment for her to form relationships with people and
everyone who's volunteering to form relationships with people, too. So, I guess it
challenged it in that it was more of like the one on one like interactions between people
rather than oh you're sick, let me help you and get you this prescription, like Katie can't do
that. How well do you think your experience at Health Commons relates to what you were
learning in that class you said first brought you here? Um, I think it relates a lot. We didn'tthey specifically didn't have us talk a lot about the health background of people who are
experiencing homelessness, um, Katie came and talked to us about that a few times but,
it's just kind of crazy to see the amount of things that they go through. Like things like
being sick that are easy for people who aren't experiencing homelessness to get over, like
I had strep last week and I just drove to the doctor and I was fine a day later. Um, they- it
would be much tougher for them to find a doctor, get to a doctor, get a prescription,
potentially pay for a prescription, like, there’s just so many more challenges and being
here and talking to people about that really applied to like what we were talking about in
class, just like gave me a firsthand experience seeing that, like how everything is a little bit
harder for those who don't have a home, don't have a car, can't, it's just like, you can't get
to the places you need to be unless you take public transportation and that might take
hours, so. What strengths did you learn or hear of from the people that you met here? Like
you're saying some of these challenges people are overcoming.
T
Taylor Mattrice 05:29
They're really resilient and strong, like, I don't know, I'm just thinking like, these people
don't have a home, they're sleeping on the street yet they come in here and they're happy
as can be. Maggie comes in here singing every day. It's just crazy to me that they can be
so upbeat and be so positive, fun things in their life aren't going the best.
S
Samantha Gibson
05:51
You mentioned that the the atmosphere here is a big part of what you may have not
expected necessarily, or, or what stood out to you. What makes you feel like people feel
welcome to the space do they feel welcome to the space? Do you have suggestions on
Oral History Interview with Taylor Mattice, Page
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
how people could be better welcomed,
T
Taylor Mattrice 06:12
I feel like people who come here consistently feel really welcome and they sit down and
talk with Katie, talk with us, they feel comfortable sitting there for an hour and just
chatting and obviously it's a nice space for them to have if they're willing to just sit there
and talk to you. And they're obviously comfortable with us in doing that. Obviously it’d be
nice to have a bigger space, which you're working on! So, that's not really anything you
can do here. I don't really have any suggestions. I think it's really cool to see the
relationships that Katie is formed with these people because I've heard, like, I don't know,
not firsthand, obviously, I don't know, but I think a lot of people have trouble trusting like
health care professionals and Katie's kind of serving as someone they can trust. Like, they
can come see Katie and ask her what she thinks and have her opinion when they go into
a doctor that maybe they don't trust as much as her and I think that's really cool.
07:11
S
Samantha Gibson
07:15
How would you suggest we could better accompany people on their journey of health? For
example, would adding more hours here being more available or adding outreach
services?
T
Taylor Mattrice 07:31
I don't know. I know, like adding hours would maybe help. But I think people just need like
they like having somewhere to come. Like I don't think it would necessarily help them with
their health journey. With what I've seen here. It would just give them somewhere to be
and someone to talk to, which I guess would maybe help with their health in the end. But
um, yeah, I don't know about that. I think outreach would be really cool. Which Katie does
that with Noah, and I see how much it's beneficial for him just to have someone who cares
and someone who's going to check on him. So maybe having more of that. I don't really
know. Like, Katie probably knows people that might need it. But I don't know how we
would go about finding them. And it's just hard. We searched for law for like an hour and a
half one day so.
Samantha Gibson
08:22
Oral History Interview with Taylor Mattice, Page
2018 4 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
S
Samantha Gibson
08:22
So you mentioned getting a better sense for the the things that people work through. And
the challenges they experience. How has this experience changed any biases you may
have had about people who are experiencing homelessness or marginally housed?
T
Taylor Mattrice 08:39
I think the class kind of did that for me to start. But this kind of solidified that. Growing up,
I grew up in a rich suburb and was always told like, Oh, you if you work hard, you can have
a home, you can have a job, you can have a good life. But I know now like obviously, that's
not true. These people work hard every day and are trying to do their best to get
themselves out of this hole and get themselves a home and a place to keep their kids.
There's just nothing they can do. So I guess that's kind of a bias that has gone away. Like I
know that even though they don't have homes, they are working hard to try and get them
and there's just factors that you can't control. That makes it so they can't be stable. You
know?
S
Samantha Gibson
09:31
What, if anything, will you take forward with you from your time here?
T
Taylor Mattrice 09:36
I think I, wanting to be a doctor, um, just watching Katie's interactions with them, it kind of
taught me about how I should treat patients. Honestly, like, she's just their friend first and
then she'll ask about their health, just in the middle of conversation and it's just nice to see
someone who genuinely cares about the person as well as their health. And, as a doctor,
that's what I'm going to try to do too.
S
Samantha Gibson
10:05
You pretty much alluded to my next question, but how has this experience impacted your
future career ideals or personal goals, not in just that interpersonal way?
T
Taylor Mattrice 10:16
Yeah.
Samantha Gibson
10:17
Oral History Interview with Taylor Mattice, Page
2018 5 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
S
Samantha Gibson
10:17
Is there another
T
Taylor Mattrice 10:18
Um, I mean, I could definitely see myself doing outreach to, I don't know, like, even in
Minneapolis, but like doing medical missions, maybe having my own sort of thing like just
seeing these people and the need they have for healthcare kind of gives me the idea that
I could maybe help them someday. I don’t know.
S
Samantha Gibson
10:43
What was the most valuable part of this experience for you, then?
T
Taylor Mattrice 10:46
Um, I mean that just getting to know people, I think, making relationships and learning
from everyone no matter what. Um, it's something that is always beneficial. Like, I didn't
really come in here thinking that I would learn as much as I did, but, like, every person I
talked to has some sort of, I don't know, not even necessarily they're teaching me, but just
like their attitude, their positivity, like gives me something to think about when I get
crabby about something dumb because they are happy as can be, and have much less
than me. So, just like being thankful for what I have and helping others as much as I can.
S
Samantha Gibson
11:29
Is there a specific story you could share that stuck with you? from your experience?
T
Taylor Mattrice 11:40
I mean, yeah, can I use names? I have been, but…
S
Samantha Gibson
11:45
Yeah, just not- not too particularly.
T
Taylor Mattrice 11:47
Yeah. The other day when Mercedes came in here with the foot issue. I don't know, she
Oral History Interview with Taylor Mattice, Page
2018 6 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
had an infection in her foot. She came to show Katie and Katie was talking to her and I
just found out like she said she had a doctor's appointment like an hour later and Katie's
like, oh well, like why'd you come to me first? She's like, well, I just wanted to see what you
thought and like see what you thought about it and let you know. And, I guess that just
kind of stuck with me. She just wanted Katie to know because she was someone that she
trusted. She was someone that she knew, and she knew she was going to the doctor but
she wanted an opinion of someone who cared about her, rather than someone she didn't
really know anything about and that's awesome. Katie’s awesome.
S
Samantha Gibson
12:33
Is there anything that you think health Commons could do better? Is there anything
missing?
T
Taylor Mattrice 12:39
I don't think so. I mean, we take donations and do what we can with them, so like,
funding-wise, if they could get funding, I'm sure there are a lot of things that we could do.
But they are in the church, like they're gonna have a shower and I think that's really cool.
But how are they going to control that? The shower will be helpful, um. Just, maybe having
a doctor that came in, but you would need a volunteer. That would be nice. Like someone
who could actually, like, maybe, I don't know, like Katie can tell them what she thinks, but
she can't give them like, prescription for antibiotics, if that's what they need. Like maybe a
doctor that came in every once in a while… but that might not be super realistic.
S
Samantha Gibson
13:31
Was there something that could be better in regard to the volunteer experience?
T
Taylor Mattrice 13:36
No, I don't think so. I like the fact that we come in and we do it and then Katie always
makes sure to debrief with us after. Like, the debriefing helps a lot because if I'm confused
about something or something happened, she knows most of the things that go down, so
she can explain it. And then I can leave without, like thinking, I don't know, like worrying or
being confused. And I think that's really helpful, so keep doing that. Keep doing the
debriefing. I think she will.
Oral History Interview with Taylor Mattice, Page
2018 7 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
S
Samantha Gibson
14:05
Do you think moving forward, that you that volunteers have a good idea of what they're
getting themselves into when they come with scheduling for you easy?
T
Taylor Mattrice 14:16
Yeah, I just emailed Katie and basically said, I can come whenever I want. So, it's really
easy and really flexible and I'm sure if any day I was supposed to come and couldn't
anymore, she would not care. Um, I think coming into it, yeah. Usually, so when I was a
sophomore, I met with someone. It wasn't Katie, someone else from Health Commons,
because I was trying to start volunteering here. and they explained a lot to me then. And
I'm sure they do that every time. It was just like a weird start for me with the class and just
kind of getting thrown into it, which she did come to our class and explain it, but it's kind
of rushed, but I think they do a good job of letting people know like what it is, what they
should expect, and…
S
Samantha Gibson
15:08
is there anything else you want to add or a topic you want to discuss more?
T
Taylor Mattrice 15:13
I don't think so.
Oral History Interview with Taylor Mattice, Page
2018 8 of 8
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Oral History Interview with Melvin James,
2018
Tue, 3/9 10:17AM
32:59
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, homeless, ai, home, shelters, stayed, helped, commons, minnesota, salvation army, life,
gon, passed, illinois, place, melvin, er, person, nephews, mary jo
SPEAKERS
Samantha Gibson, Kathleen C... Show more
Oral History Interview with Melvin James,
2018
Tue, 3/9 10:17AM
32:59
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, homeless, ai, home, shelters, stayed, helped, commons, minnesota, salvation army, life,
gon, passed, illinois, place, melvin, er, person, nephews, mary jo
SPEAKERS
Samantha Gibson, Kathleen Clark, Melvin James
Kathleen Clark 00:00
Well, hello, my name is Katie Clark. I'm an assistant professor at Augsburg University.
Could you please introduce yourself for the recording?
M
Melvin James
00:09
My name is Melvin James.
S
Samantha Gibson
00:12
My name is Samantha Gibson. I'm an AmeriCorps worker at Health Commons just
listening in.
Kathleen Clark 00:21
So thank you for joining us for the oral history project of the Health Commons.
M
Melvin James
00:25
Oral History Interview with Melvin James, 2018
Page 1 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Thank you for having me.
Kathleen Clark 00:26
Yeah. Before we get started, I would like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed
and having the interview recording stored at Augsburg University which will be made
available to the public.
M
Melvin James
00:39
Agreed.
Kathleen Clark 00:40
Alright, great. So basically, kind of, can you tell me where you grew up and who you called
family?
M
Melvin James
00:48
Well, I grew up in Illinois, it’s a little country called Sun River Terrace, out in the country, of
Illinois, Kankakee, Illinois. And I’ve been raised there, I was born and raised there. Well, I’ve
been born in Columbus, Mississippi, but I’ve been raised in Illinois since I was what five, six
years old. Out in the country, went to grade school in Momence, Illinois, and uh, went to
junior high in Momence, Illinois, then I graduated in Kankakee, Illinois in Westview High
School in Kankakee, Illinois. That’s basically how I grew up. And also mom, you know, she
was really awesome, she had a lot of survival skills, she raised, uh, eighteen kids. It was
challenging for her, you know, by herself, you know but, along the way we got split up, you
know, but we still stayed there as one family, you know. Everybody got split up, after they
got older and stuff, you know, like they, life started to take a toll, tear her down, but she
still stayed strong, she was in church and stuff. She was, she was a holy one, you know. She
survived, she helped us survive. She gave me all the survival skills that she figured that I
needed, coming up in life, you know. I know how to cook, I know how to clean, I know how
to do everything. Everything the way she showed me.
02:32
Oral History Interview with Melvin James, 2018
Page 2 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Kathleen Clark 02:33
So, being that you grew up in Illinois, how did you end up here in Minnesota? After my
mom passed, after she passed at 82 years old, she passed at 82, and I'm the youngest
male of the family, you know, so. Everybody's grown in my family now, so, you know. So I
came to Minnesota after she passed and stuff, so. Everybody just grew up and went their
own way, and you know, I was 45 years old when I came here, so, you know, I’m 58 now.
Life was kinda difficult for me when I moved to Minnesota, but, like my mom always told
me, you can make it in your hometown, you can make it anywhere, you know, it all
depends on what you going to another place to venture off to- to do, you know. Cause, if
you gonna do bad or wrong, or anything, you might as well stay in your hometown, you
know. Cause you gon get the same results no matter where you go, you know, so. I used all
of my survival skills to help me come along in Minnesota, you know. Uh, it has some faults,
about Minnesota, but, you know, it is what it is, you know. It’s partially my hometown, I had
to struggle, I had to crawl before I walk. I’m on bended knees now. So was it a relationship
that brought you here, or was it a job, or?
M
Melvin James
04:24
After my mom passed, I was, I lived with my mom. And, she stayed in the house by herself.
I had to, when she passed, I had to go. But I never depended on my other sisters and
brothers, the house and me, you know, they helped me through, you know, I counted that
on my own, you know, so I was homeless back home, in my hometown. I was sleeping out
in the parks, and staying in the shelters and stuff, you know. When I was really there and
not here and stuff I got kicked out the shelters, I ended up having to live out on the streets,
you know. But along comes with that, we had a family reunion one year and my nephew,
he lives up here in Minnesota, he came down and I was sleeping in his brother’s car, well I
was sneaking around sleeping in his brother’s car at night, you know, he didn't know I was
sleeping in his car, you know. So I guess, I guess they got together and like man, uncle need
help, you know, uncle need help, we need to, uh, get, you know, he’s our mentor, you know,
so yeah he need help. So my nephew put me in the car and come on let's go to Kmart so I
can buy this and buy that. So along with that I was drinking, and I got a little tipsy, and I
think I might have fell asleep in the car. And when I woke up I was in Minnesota. I woke up,
I was back in Minnesota.
Kathleen Clark 06:12
So how did you feel homelessness was, where you were at compared to when you showed
up in the Twin Cities?
Oral History Interview with Melvin James, 2018
Page 3 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
M
Melvin James
06:23
It was kinda fair, I believe. It was more, it was more unity back then, you know, when I was
homeless in ‘99, and 2000, my mom passed away in 2002. So, it was similar. It was bad. I
mean it’s not like the shelter like the Salvation Army out there, you know, you have people
wiggin’ out, buggin’ you, telling you what you can do and what you can’t do, you know,
disrespecting you, and you know it was, it was, it’s a lot of unity in the Salvation Army back
home, you know.
Kathleen Clark 07:07
Well, it sounds like relationships are really important to you. So did you, do you still keep in
contact with your siblings at all?
M
Melvin James
07:15
Oh yeah, I’m going home for Mother’s Day this year, I ain’t been home in 18 years for
Mother’s Day. You know, but I’m going home. I told my sisters there I'm coming home, they
like oh, it's about time! You know, but, you know, I always go home twice a year, anyway,
you know. Usually, about five years, six years back, only time I showed up at home was for
Fourth of July. I can't get past a holiday like Christmas or New Year's or Fourth of July
without somebody passing the way my path, so. I'm down to four sisters and two brothers.
And my oldest brother is still living and I'm the baby brother, still living, you know.
Everybody else they’ve passed on, you know, so. My nieces and nephews they kind of look
up to me, but my oldest brother, he stays in Florida. He stays in Florida so I’m the closest
Uncle around them that they’ve got. So, I make sure that all my nieces and nephews know
who’s Uncle Melvin. Yeah. When I go home they be like my oldest nieces and my second
nieces and my third nieces cause I’m a great-great-great-great Uncle, you know. My first
oldest niece and nephew, I got about 25 older nieces and nephews and I got about 36
great great nieces and nephews and I got 52 great great great nieces and nephews. So
they all look up to me, you know. And when I go home they like oh, Uncle Melvin. When
they tell their kids I’m comin’ home oh they’re gonna get spoiled. Cause when I be the
babysitter, I let ‘em do whatever they want to. If they fall down and skin their knees and
elbows I just laugh at them, I’m like get up and try it again. You gon say ouch one day, you
know. I keep up with my siblings.
Kathleen Clark 09:23
So when you ended up in Minnesota, how long do- were you living without a place to call
home?
Oral History Interview with Melvin James, 2018
Page 4 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
M
Melvin James
09:30
Oh for almost a year and a half, two years. I think about, yeah about two years, cause I
got my place at, where I'm standing now, I got my place at ’04, or ’05. I stayed on the
Salvation Army, well I stayed with my nephew for a year, a year and a half. Until he
started waiting. Then, I didn't know which way to go. I didn't know nothing about Mary
Jo's or Simpson’s, or any other of these places, you know, I just, basically just, followed the
crowd. You know and the crowd showed me my way. But uh, after I found out where Mary
Jo’s was, you know, I was kinda set, you know, I was laid back then, uh, it’s how I got my
place and I think in ’04, ’03, or ’05 I think I got my place, and stuff, you know.
Kathleen Clark 10:37
So when you got your place did you have to be on a wait list?
M
Melvin James
10:41
Well, basically, how I got my place, it was, it was a guy that was a community manager
over there and he brought 40 application over to Central Lutheran Church. And he gave
everybody the application, he did like, all you all gotta do is pass the background check,
I’m not gonna charge y’all first month rent if you pass it. So he moved all half of 40 in and
I'm only one still there. Out of the 40.
Kathleen Clark 11:20
Now recently. You almost had to leave your house or apartment
M
Melvin James
11:24
Yeah, I’ve been in my apartment 18 years and I was bell ringer for the- I’ve been a bell
ringer for the Salvation Army since I used to be homeless, I used to stay down there. I used
to bell ring. And that’s how I used to pay my rent and, uh, donate my plasma and stuff,
before I got on the fix income. I got on the fix income in 2015. And I didn’t know that I had
to turn in my check stubs and, you know, let them know I was working. I thought it was
peace work, you know. But along the way they tax me, you know, they took the whole, I
was making $750 a month. They went back three years, so they gon tax me, what I mean
by tax me they gon, I had to pay back my earnings that I’d made, so that was 750 dollars
and all they would give me was 43 dollars a month out of my check. So I almost lost my
house, you know. And what I didn’t understand was, I thought my housing was 30% of my
income and I figured that I didn’t have the money that I usually get, I figured that 30%, I
Oral History Interview with Melvin James, 2018
Page 5 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
thought my income, my rent should go down, you know, but it was gonna go down, but I
had to go all the way through the red tape for it to go down. You know, so. I winged myself
outta that, you know, you helped me out, this Central Lutheran helped me out, God’s
Mercy helped me out, you know. That brought be back up off bended knee, cause I was
about to get down on one knee, you know, along the way y’all helped me out. You know, I
appreciate y’all you know, got help, you got courage and got understanding. You know I
believe that’s, that’s fair that’s, you know, that’s fair love, you know? Fair love.
Kathleen Clark 13:38
Now earlier today you were talking about how people end up, you know, being in the
emergency shelter like Salvation Army should be a place to be for a moment, but not a
place to live.
M
Melvin James
13:54
Right
Kathleen Clark 13:55
Why do you feel like it’s turned into more of a place that people are kind of stuck in living
for years on end? Do you think that's changed, do you think it's the same, and why do you
think that's a problem?
M
Melvin James
14:10
Well, see now that's a problem cause people looking for a way out of life, you know you
know they just wanna live off the land, you know. Your courage is to upgrade yourself, you
know, to monitor what you do through life, you know. Life ain’t handed to you on a silver
spoon, you know. Some people just take advantage of that, you know. I think some people
might have gave up on uh gave up life, you know, but they still got their mind to think, you
know. I don't see no way, no how that a person with six senses can be homeless over 10 to
20 years, you know. I don't, you know, I just can't bear that in my mind. You know, you
know, why would you give up life, you know, you know, but I mean, living in the shelter is
formed to help you come off bended knee, you know, not for you to basically this is my
home. You know, this is not your home, really, you know, it's just a foundation for you to
come to, you know to help you so you won't be as poor it is as you wanna live, you know.
You can live a lot richer being poor, you know, and to be poor and to be poor, you know,
to be poor and to be poor. Because, uh, I heard a person tell me one time, I heard a person
Oral History Interview with Melvin James, 2018
Page 6 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
say that there ain’t no such thing as homeless, you know, because you got all of these
shelters that are housing you and feeding you, you know, if you got a place to go get a
meal, you’re not homeless. You know, homeless is I think homeless is a situation where
they don't have no bare bones, no, no shelters, or you know where you have to live off the
land, you know, but if you gotta a place where you can go and shower, change clothes
and stuff like that, you know. I heard this person say that. There ain’t no homeless, you
know, it just, it’s just, basically you’re just without. Without things, proper things, that you
outta be common to. You know. And uh, I don’t know, it’s just, you know.
Kathleen Clark 16:51
It almost sounds like houseless versus homeless. Right?
M
Melvin James
16:55
Right.
Kathleen Clark 16:59
So how did you end up hearing about the nurses at Central or the Health Commons? How
did you first come here and how did you hear about it?
M
Melvin James
17:09
Well, like I said, you know, back in 2003, 2005, when I got my homeless spot, I found out
about Central Lutheran Church. I used to follow where people go to be there, you know,
whether you used to go or be, you know, I used to follow the crowd, but I always stuck to
myself, you know, I'm always the outside looking in, you know. I see something good, you
know, I go investigate it, check it out, see if its right for me, you know. And when I came up
on Central Lutheran, you know, I’m like, this a place where peoples intervene and
understand how it is to be homeless, you know. Cause somewhere along the way some
peoples have came up on the, uh, original back by coming to the church. And, I think uh
some peoples, I think some churches love to give back, you know, cause, I guess they have,
everybody have a family that go through, you know, trials and tribulations, you know.
They understand about how a person can be vulnerable, you know, uh, uh, I think uh,
without things that they grew up with, things that they grew out of, you know, because,
uh… these churches, have helped, I mean, if you enlighten yourself on and understand
about what a church is, you know, it’ll help you, you know, it will help you, you know, you
just, I mean it ain’t gon be in the order that you want it to be, you know, but you gotta
Oral History Interview with Melvin James, 2018
Page 7 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
improvise the situation that they in, you know. Cause they have life after this too, they
have a family they have to raise, you know. You not their only responsibility, you know, you
have to bring responsibility to the table too, you know. You just can’t take on, just can’t
accept all of their responsibility for you, you know, you have to bring, you gotta bring
some responsibility to the table.
Kathleen Clark 20:03
So what are some reasons that you or other people come to the nurses at Central?
M
Melvin James
20:09
Well, when I started coming to you guys, I had a need, you know, not a physical, mental
need, nothing like that, you know, but I can feel the enjoyment, you know, from you guys,
you know, I can feel the life, you know. The light that you, that y’all share, you know, with
each and every one of us, you know. And some people, you know, they, I think some
people just ain’t understand it, but I do, you know. I know what I like, you know, and if I run
into a situation where somebody is talking, you know, angry or big, uh, you know, being
above life, you know, I don’t deal with it, you know. You going talking to arrogant, you
know, miss me, you know, miss me with that because I can talk arrogant too, but that ain’t
gonna lead us back to stage one. But I can feel, I can feel enjoyment, you know. When I
met you guys, you know I used to- didn’t say nothing. You know I was always a closed
mouth, you know. I was always a closed mouth, but I got to learning y’all and y’all got to
showing me both, how y’all feel about a person and what y’all got to feed a person, you
know. Got that understanding, you know all that. Then I started opening up, yeah. Since I
am a joker, you know, I like to joke, you know. I like to start my conversation off with a
joke, you know to get to the real, real thing that I really need to talk to you about, to ask
you about, you know.
Kathleen Clark 22:20
Well, so, how do you think we could better welcome people in this space, or do people feel
welcomed, or how can we do that better? Well, I think people, I think good peoples, well
everybody’s good you know, everybody’s good. You can take the good with the bad, the
bad with the good, but I think y’all is more, more, more of a slice of cake, you know, more
of a slice of cake. Once you taste your cake you taste how sweet it is, you just go keep
inviting yourself back for more and more and more, you know, to get another slice, you
know. Get another slice, you know. And uh. Y’all a good welcoming at. Y’all good. I mean,
it’s, when you come in here, most people like, I don’t know, they just like to be around you
Oral History Interview with Melvin James, 2018
Page 8 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
guys. They like to be around you guys, you know. Well, I do have a lot of students who
work in-patient nearby in different hospitals and see some folks that are here that they
often see like in the ER and say that people often act different when they are here versus
in the ER setting. What do you think that's about, why do you think that people might act
different in the ER, versus coming in and asking for blood pressure or something, in this
setting?
M
Melvin James
23:55
It’s because they, they feel more comfortable around you, you know. I mean I’m quite sure
they feel comfortable in the ER, but you have all of these moving pictures, you know,
moving around, you know, and you don't know which, which, what picture to point the
finger at, you know. Here, you ain’t got to point the finger, you know, it’s just nothing but
love, you know. It’s just something about you guys and y’all area, you know, that draws
attention and everybody just want to be around, you know, around the nurses, you know,
because I believe y’all both down to earth, you know, you ain’t got too many pictures to
point a finger at, you know, you get, you know, and some people just can’t, just can’t take
no for an answer. And since I've been coming in here, what y’all use as a word no, it gives
a lot of people strength, you know, y'all don’t use the word no as a mean thing or an angry
thing, you know, but you know, I guess in the ER you know, you know, it's like, you know,
they be saying it to you in an arguing way, you know, so you feel not capable of being
helped. You know, you just being like a Guinea pig that’s being used, you know, and here,
y'all, y'all filter out all the, they’ll try to filter out all the weakness that somebody come and
talk to you about. You try to help them, you know, mentor their lives, you know. And I, I
think that's a good thing, you know, everybody just feels warm and welcome around here.
I know I do, you know. That’s why I come in here I do my leisure, that’s why I come in here.
It’s like, it’s just like, it’s like y’all is, y’all are like my new mentors, you know, in life, you
know, every time I come in here, I'm not looking for nothing. I ain’t looking for no handouts
or, you know, I'm just looking for construction, you know, construction, you know, that
makes my day, makes my next hours go, you know, not crazy but, you know, go wild and
loose, and understanding, you know, that's why I come in here, you know. I guess about- if
Mondays, Thursdays, if I sleep over nine o’clock, after ten o'clock, if I miss not coming
through here, I’m like, oh man my day gon be rough, because I didn't get to come over to
meet my peoples, you know, they give me enjoyment in life, you know, they don't tell me
no all the time, you know.
Kathleen Clark 26:49
So you volunteered here a couple, many times, actually. So, how is it for you when you
volunteer?
Oral History Interview with Melvin James, 2018
Page 9 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
M
Melvin James
26:57
It was nice, you know, it was nice, I mean I get answered some questions that I couldn't
answer, you know and people come to you, and you know, and look for answers, you
know. Look for that certain question. You know they got to hear those certain words, you
know, that you can provide for them, you know. And sometimes I- but I enjoyed
volunteering, I enjoyed volunteering. I mean it helped me out, you know, it helped me out,
and I understand how peoples are- you know, how I, I am, you know. It helped me out, you
know, with my mental stage.
Kathleen Clark 27:38
So what do you think we could do better in the Health Commons?
M
Melvin James
27:42
I really couldn’t say, right now y’all, right now I think y’all, right now I think y’all are
complete. You know, whatever you think that you can offer us, you know, it’ll be complete,
you know. Right now, everything is, to me, it’s complete. I can’t see, go around and see no
faults, that y’all ain’t serving the peoples well, and stuff, y’all serving the people just, you
know, just as promised that’s needed.
Kathleen Clark 28:30
Some people have said things like we should have more days or we should do outreach or
things like that, but, do you think that we need to do more or is the two days fine? Well,
two days, an extra day wouldn’t be bad, you know, an extra day wouldn’t be bad. It’s the
people- I mean, try an extra day and if the people show up, you know, the people have to
show up, you know. So what do you think some of the biggest barriers are for people who
are experiencing homelessness or marginally house to access things around health,
whether it's healthcare or get basic needs met, like, what do you think the biggest barriers
are? I believe, I think uh, most people need to be talked to, but they won’t- some people,
like think this, they kickin theyself bout to slip into a mental state and they come, they
hoping they will come that y’all guys are here to help them be positive, you know, before
they slip into that mental state, you know, and uh, I think they, they count on you guys,
you know, I think they really do, you know. Because like I said, you know, when I miss a
day, my day, I’m saying, I’m just like, I missed out on a whole, I missed out on a whole lot of
stuff, you know. So you know that we have a lot of nurses who volunteer and students. So
Oral History Interview with Melvin James, Page
2018 10 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
if you could tell them one thing when they're coming in that they should think about doing
when they're working the folks when we are open, what's one thing that the nurses or
volunteers should be thinking about?
M
Melvin James
30:34
Well, if they first time, they’ll think about, they’ll think everybody that you looking to would
say if they first time. You know, if they first time. You just, you know, just follow the good,
you know, just listen to it. Listen to the voice, you know, of a person, you know, and, you
know, don’t challenge it, just listen and say, ok, this sounds well enough. It sounds well
enough, you know.
Kathleen Clark 31:08
That's all the questions that I have. Is there anything that you want to add that we didn't
ask? Sam, did you have a question?
M
Melvin James
31:22
Well, me, I like coming here, for once, you know. Like I said, when I miss a day, when I miss
a Monday or a Thursday, I’m like- even when I be going out of town, you know, like, like,
I'm going home for Mother's Day and I'm leaving on the ninth, then Imma be, my mind
gonna be like, oh, man. What did they do, you know, aw man, what did they doing, you
know. I miss what makes me excited, you know, and when you miss something that makes
you excited it seems like the whole day is just ruined, you know. Because you missed the
magic, you missed the feeding part, the gross part, the education part, you know, it seems
like you just missed something. Other than that, you know, I’m well off, I’m happy. I’m bout
complete now. I’m bout complete with you guys. I just- Y’all just wonderful. Y’all just really
wonderful.
Kathleen Clark 32:35
Well this has been really fun because you're such a quiet person. So to hear your thoughts
has been great. So thank you for taking the time to talk with us and share your input on
Health Commons and what we should do better. So.
M
Melvin James
32:51
Alright, whatever, whatever will make the well water clean enough.
Oral History Interview with Melvin James, Page
2018 11 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Oral History Interview with Melvin James, Page
2018 12 of 12
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Oral History Interview with Melinda
Dively-White, 2018
Tue, 3/9 9:40AM
26:29
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
commons, people, augsburg, felt, dnp, health, experience, worked, part, rochester, person, possibly,
engage, attitude, thought, challenge, life, talk, volunteer, system
SPEAKERS
Melinda Dively... Show more
Oral History Interview with Melinda
Dively-White, 2018
Tue, 3/9 9:40AM
26:29
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
commons, people, augsburg, felt, dnp, health, experience, worked, part, rochester, person, possibly,
engage, attitude, thought, challenge, life, talk, volunteer, system
SPEAKERS
Melinda Dively-White, Samantha Gibson
S
Samantha Gibson
00:01
Hello, my name is Samantha Gibson. I'm an AmeriCorps VISTA worker at health
comments. Could you please introduce yourself for the recording?
M
Melinda Dively-White
00:09
Hi, my name is Melinda Dively-White and I'm a DNP student.
S
Samantha Gibson
00:15
Thank you, I wanted to reaffirm that you consent to the storage and use of this recording
at Augsburg University, where it will be available to the public.
M
Melinda Dively-White
00:26
Yes. Thank you.
S
Samantha Gibson
00:28
Thank you. To get us started, could you tell me a little bit about where you grew up and
Oral History Interview with Melinda Dively-White,
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who you called family?
M
Melinda Dively-White
00:35
Sure, I grew up in a small railroad town in Pennsylvania and in my family we have a twin
sister and my parents had us when they were 18. So, it was my mom, my dad, my sister
and then we lived very closely, actually literally next door, to my grandparents, my mom's
parents. So, when I refer to family, that's who I would think of when I was younger. But we
have a large extended family that lived in the same area.
S
Samantha Gibson
01:12
Great, thank you. How did you end up at Augsburg University, then?
M
Melinda Dively-White
01:17
Oh, that’s kind of a long trip! But I’ve been- we moved out of Pennsylvania when I was
about 9 or 10 to get jobs, because the factories in the town were laying people off and
jobs were scarce. So we moved actually down to Carolina. Just- we moved up and down
the East Coast and we got our- my sister and I went to school for nursing. We got our
undergrad in a Tennessee and then we worked for several years here in Minnesota and,
um, both pursued a master's degree and when we were talking recently, there were a lot
of changes going on in the world that we weren't necessarily happy about and I started
looking at different programs that would help me understand a little bit more and be able
to speak about things were bothering me. Um, and I felt like there were a lot of people in
the world that don't get a really strong voice and so I wanted to learn a little bit more
about transcultural type, um, education and learning and helping you see things from
different perspectives. And so, um, Augsburg was the school that had that as a program,
and so then I started to pursue the DNP in transcultural leadership. So, it was kind of a
long journey, but I actually didn't see myself going back to school for my doctorate. The
only thing that actually led me to do that, um, was because of the program that Augsburg
had.
S
Samantha Gibson
02:45
I'm sorry, could you repeat that last part?
M
Melinda Dively-White
02:46
The only reason I actually went back to school for my doctorate, cause I felt like after my
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master's I was- I was done, um, was the fact that there were a lot of things that were going
on that I didn't think were right. And it was actually the specific program at Augsburg, that
transcultural leadership, that really, um, really drew me- threw me in. So that's- that's
where I got to the Augsburg.
S
Samantha Gibson
03:12
Okay, it's really great to understand your motivation from that. How did that motivation,
and- and this program lead you to become involved with Health Commons?
M
Melinda Dively-White
03:23
The Health Commons was one of the areas that we could visit for practical hours, but it
was also something that, um, well I was very interested in. They start asking you, like even
in the interview, about what you would want to do possibly for, um, your DNP project and I
had, you know, several different ideas and one of them was to do something within the
actual public health or in- in the community itself, um, because my master's I did within
the area that I worked. And so I really- I was drawn to, you know, if I'm gonna be doing
something in the program that's transcultural, the best place in my mind to possibly do
that would be within the community itself. And the Commons seemed like a great area to
go, where it's something within the community and was something that- that I knew was
possibly a need in Rochester. So, um, I talked with Katie and she said, well come on, come
visit the Commons, so I went to the Commons. I've been there twice now.
S
Samantha Gibson
04:29
Cool, and what can you tell me about those two visits you've experienced at Health
Commons?
M
Melinda Dively-White
04:35
Um, I would like to- I would actually like to go back once they go back into the church,
because both of my experiences were in the trailer, so we were limited on what we- what
we could also do. Foot care is something that I would still like to be a part of but um. Both
visits I really enjoyed that connection- being able to connect with people, you know, in a
way that is just genuine. You know, this is real life it's not- when people come into the
hospital they're outside of their own environment, so they're coming into a new
environment. So, the people that you see there- it's a different side of them, a different
rawness, a feeling of out of control, outside of their own environment, and so when you
see them, when you see people in the Commons, um, there's also a rawness to it, it's just a
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different kind of rawness. And there’s still things outside of their control, but you're- the
Commons is such a unique area that it does create this- when people come in, it's- it's not
this is our turf, you know, we're not going in as experts, we're welcoming them into a
space that is a shared space. It's their space just as much as it is our space, and I think
that that was a very deliberate thing that they try to do in the Commons that I felt. So Ithat was one of the first things I noticed was there were no barriers, people come in and
they come up and you can talk right to them, they're, you know, you're not standing up or
if you are you're at the same level as them. You’re not- there isn’t this looking down on
you, you know, your physical movements…just the way things are very deliberate to- for a
welcoming environment and I think that- that was a very nice and refreshing thing for me
to see.
S
Samantha Gibson
06:26
Absolutely, I think you're speaking to, you know, what Health Commons aims to do. Did
your experience at Health Commons fit or challenge your expectations of what it would
be?
M
Melinda Dively-White
06:38
I just- I think it did a little bit of both, actually, I know that sounds a little strange, but, you
know, going in I wasn't sure exactly what to expect so I had some ideas in my mind and so
it met the openness that I was expecting. I think what challenged me was, I've, even
though, I- we grew up very poor and, but we always had a lot- you know, quite a bit of
support from friends and family around us. And then, um, and then I didn't have a lot of
experience with homelessness. We did, in our undergraduate work, we did do a semester
where we went into a soup kitchen and we, um, talked with people that were experiencing
homelessness and that included families. So that was the most exposure that I had with
people experiencing homelessness. So, then it was pretty limited, you know, like people
that you see on the streets, kind of going around, or…it's just not the same level of
engagement. And so going back in there, it was challenging to me again to think, wow, I'm
in a big city here but I know this is- this happens in Rochester and I'm not- I'm not aware
of it or I'm not acknowledging it or engaging the way that I feel like I should. So in a way it
was challenging to me and that I felt convicted in a sense, if that makes sense, you know,
we get caught up in our own things and get busy and, um, we just don't- there's just not
that level of awareness that I felt like I should have. So, that was my level of challenge.
S
Samantha Gibson
08:17
Okay. How well do you think your experience at Health Commons relates to what you
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were learning in your program?
M
Melinda Dively-White
08:27
Oh, I think it was- for me personally, I felt like it fit really well into what, um, what we're
learning in our program. Especially, the second visit I had was with 802, um, and, for me,
802, I've enjoyed both of my main classes so far, but 802 really, um, it's that, you know,
going in and learning things from the academic sense but then actually seeing it and
experiencing it that full, you know, the whole sensory combination is really- it kind of
integrates with your soul, you know what I mean? It just um, it just kinda just gets to
become a part of you. And so, for me, I really feel like it was a good connection. I really
like the immersions, I feel like it's a very important part of Augsburg and I- I really hope
that they continue to do the immersions and that it actually could possibly be expanded.
So, that's just my personal opinion, though.
S
Samantha Gibson
09:35
Do you have any suggestions for how we can better accompany people on their journey of
health? You know, either logistically- so things like adding more hours or outreach
services, or even by attitude?
M
Melinda Dively-White
09:39
H-mm I think- I think attitude is a big one, that's a big question to answer. I guess when
you say we, are you thinking like, as people? As Augsburg? As students? As…who's the we,
or can we just pick which we we wanna be?
S
Samantha Gibson
09:39
Uh, Health Commons, or the nurses, really, you can pick the we.
M
Melinda Dively-White
09:50
I think I think attitude is a big one. That's a big question to answer. We are you thinking
like As people as Augsburg as students says, who's the weak? Or can we just pick? Which
one Okay. Um, I think, as a humanity itself, overall, the big picture, I would say, it's a heart
issue, um that we need to really change our hearts and our attitudes and acknowledge,
first of all, that we’re humans. That we’re all humans, no matter what and where you're at,
what position you hold, as a human being with a life. So, um, but then to get more
granular, I think, as nurses in the health care setting, I think it's that, you know, we work so
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hard to learn things that we can help other people but sometimes we forget that people
bring so much to the table and we might say this is what's going on with you and yes, that
might be an issue but if we just narrow them down just to that diagnosis, we're missing so
many other things that's impacting that diagnosis. So, someone could come in with an
issue, but they've got five other things that are more important to them personally and if
we don't understand and engage with what- engage them in the conversation and let
them be a part of that conversation and leave that conversation, um, and us to truly listen,
I think we're- we're gonna miss a lot. And I think that's where when we talk about services,
you know, it's really hard to talk about services in the sense that everything- we want to
regulate everything, you know, we want to control everything because, you know, it costs
something or this net, but when we're talking about services if we don’t- if we don't have
that first right attitude and heart and- and then include the people, the services aren't
going to mean anything. And we're not going to have those responses that- that the most,
or the best outcomes, if you wanna say from the technical sense, but, um, best response
engagement for the people I don't know if that made sense but, um, that's kind of where I
see it.
S
Samantha Gibson
12:23
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think that's really insightful. Can you elaborate a little bit
on what strengths you learned or heard from the people that you met?
M
Melinda Dively-White
12:33
Resiliency is huge. I- um, one of the people that I met and I was able to talk to for an
extended period of time, I kept thinking to myself, oh, you know, this- this could have been
me. This- I- this- this is like, you feel like, wow I'm so lucky because I- this very much could
have- this could have been me. I still stammer when I talk about it because it was one of
those aha moments for me, where I think if I didn't have the support that I have, the
support system that I have, I would- that could have- the situation that this person was in
would have been a real, real possibility for me. And, the fact that this person wanted to
have their life turned around and was doing all the things that they were supposed to do
within the system that was before them, um, but yet every time they tried- they got to a
certain point, they kind of got kicked back down by something that was in system that
wasn’t inside their control. So you get to this point where you have to make a decision, do
I want to live or do I want to follow the system? And for some people and that's just not
fair, I mean, what- how- what would you want to do, you want to live or do you wanna
remain in this, um, you know, constrained reality? And, um, so this person’s resiliency was
just amazing, and the attitude that they had because they decided, you know what? If I
cannot do- if I cannot succeed within the system that's before me, and for this person it
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was a job, and this was a person that had skills and was educated and was willing to take
a position that was lower than what they were possibly able to do, but because of
medical reasons was not able to remain in that position because of the cost of insurance.
So, um, it was either get the assistance that they needed to get the health care coverage
they needed to survive or, you know, elevate themselves but possibly die because they
couldn't get, you know, pay for the cost of care that they needed. And so they chose to
volunteer regularly, um, and I thought, oh, here's a person that is contributing to society,
that is, um, doing that in spite of all these other things and the system that has worked
against them repeatedly and they still had a really positive attitude about it. And I just
thought to myself, what- how would I react with this? How would I respond? So that- thatthat really stuck with me.
S
Samantha Gibson
15:20
Thank you, that's really powerful. You definitely touched on this but if you could distill your
knowledge: what if anything, will you be taking forward with you from this experience?
M
Melinda Dively-White
15:31
Uh, I think for me, what I'm gonna take forward- what I hope to take forward and then I
hope to continue to do for the rest of my life is listen and truly listen, because, you know,
you get so used to thinking, I need to do this, I need to do this, I need to do this, but
without listening, you know, what will it do anything? You know, it’s just like shooting
things in the dark, you're not gonna hit the target if you don't- if you don't know what it is
and you're gonna learn the target by listening then people around you. So it's not- it's not
just about me, it's about all of us together, you know. What I do impacts person next to me
and we all- we all are connected.
S
Samantha Gibson
16:15
Has this experience impacted your future career ideals or your personal goals?
M
Melinda Dively-White
16:21
Mmm, that's a good question. I think so. I have to- you know, like, there's this practical
part of me that says, you know, I've been working at a certain place for almost 20 years so
there's that practical side of me that’s like, you know, I'd like to stay within that part of the
institution so that I can get retirement and so that I'm not, you know, struggling as I- when
I get older but there's the other part of me that- that is saying well, is there something
within that- that I can use those skills and apply those things and help. But I'd also like to,
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um, volunteer, um, part of my DNP project is to hopefully open a, with a group of other
students, Health Commons within Rochester, so I'm very much hope to see that come to
become a reality and I would like to be a part of that going forward. Um, and then I would
also- I'm also interested in possibly teaching, if possible, hopefully I would have something
to contribute. So yes it has, I just don't know for sure in what ways, I know I have ideas but
again my ideas doesn’t necessarily mean, what, that that's- that's what it's going to be.
S
Samantha Gibson
17:40
Definitely some drives there. I want to know what your hopes for the Health Commons in
Rochester, if that can come to fruition, what would that look like or what do you- what do
you hope it fills?
M
Melinda Dively-White
17:56
I think it would- there's- for me, when I- as I've started looking around at things and
exploring town, um, there's a Rochester I thought I knew and then there's the Rochester
that's behind it that I didn’t- that wasn't aware of, so I'd like to see that gap get tight,
closed, you know, be shorter or smaller, that more of awareness that's out- out there for
more people because I think, you know, like I said earlier, we get so caught up in our lives
that we forget what's all around us, um, so I think that's one thing I would like to see is
that awareness be extended. I guess I would also like to see, um, I can't say what I want
the Health Commons necessarily do or be just yet, I know that I want it to be a place that
is welcoming. So for me, that- that I would like to mimic that open and welcomed attitude
that I felt when I went to the Commons in the cities but aside from that I think it's, you
know, I think we're gonna go in with the idea of let's welcome people and do this, this, and
this, to help engage in the conversation and, but in reality, I think what's gonna happen is,
we start to see people or meet with people and talk, that what they need might be very
different than what is, and that's what we really need listen to and focus on and, um, you
know, engage the people there and have them be a part of that process and maybe lead
that process, and letting us know what is it that the community needs, what is it that
people that are struggling or experiencing challenges in their life- what is the most
meaning to them? Is it connectedness, is it being a part of something, is it membership,
um, is it, you know, I struggle with this, I just need a stronger support system, what does
that look like, what does that mean to you? So it's those kinds of things that I think it's
gonna take time and- and truly- and just really listening.
S
Samantha Gibson
20:07
From your perspective, what do you think the Health Commons could do better, is there
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something missing?
M
Melinda Dively-White
20:13
I think in the cities, right now, they're just- they're just, um, that space issue because of
being frailer so I think they'll be very happy to be able to get back into the church. So
that- but I don't think- that's outside of their control and I think the relationship that's
been developed there is a pretty significant one and I- so, I think it’d just be continue to
focus on- on people, continuing to engage in what it is that you think that they, you know,
that, um, not that you think but what they are telling you, what is it they’re saying,
continue to engage in those conversations, to ask those questions. Cause, you know, it
could change over time, you know, everything's changing so quickly that, you know, we
have to be a part of that. But I like- I like, too, that the Commons is welcoming and I like
that there's that, um, level engagement of like, this is your responsibility, it's my
responsibility- it's- it's our- all of us contribute and it's- we're all a part of it, I hope- I think
that there's more way more positives and I think that the improvement would be just
continuing to keep that- keep your focus.
S
Samantha Gibson
21:33
That’s some good perspective. Is there anything that could have been better in regard to
your volunteer experience?
M
Melinda Dively-White
21:41
Oh, no, I don't think so. It was, was very positive. For me. It was enlightening, I guess, is a
good word for it.
S
Samantha Gibson
21:53
Is there a specific story that you could share that stuck with you from your experience at
Health Commons?
M
Melinda Dively-White
21:59
Well, that one still really stood out for me, the one that I talked- when I was talking about
the- the person that had to choose, you know, basically between living and climbing the
system. That one will stay with me forever, I think, um, another one that- that really stood
out to me was a person that came in and- and that they asked for their blood pressure to
be taken so I took their blood pressure and it was high and then we just started talking
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about things that were going on in their life and what they did and this person
volunteered quite a bit actually, volunteered at the church, and was very active and, um,
was actually, um, yeah I'm blanking on the word. He was the pastor and was… not
christened…he was supported or, um, reached a certain level, I can't remember now, I'm
sorry, but he was talking about one of his- when he experienced something where
someone came up to him and said, I just saw you or I just saw you in this vision and then I
saw you with this certain gown on and you were doing this, that, and you were succeeding
and you were talking to other people and so, um, he was kind of sharing- saying with me
you wanna- I felt like it was a cultural belief, that, um, you know, you kind of visualize
something or someone can see this vision about you, um, and he- he truly believed it and
embraced it and- and very much so, he actually- he is a pastor and he is helping people
and actively working to, you know, help others out of situations, you know, he still have
struggles and he still has challenges in his life, but he's out there trying to help other
people in a spiritual way and physically and, um, he- I admired his heart. He had a true
passion and love for those around him and he thought more about others than he did
about the situation that he might be challenged by or experiencing.
S
Samantha Gibson
24:19
Thank you Is, is there anything else that you'd like to add that we didn't ask about or a
topic you'd like to discuss a little more?
M
Melinda Dively-White
24:27
Um, I guess I think I would just like to say that at Health Commons it was clear to me that
the relationship that over time has been developed, you know, there was a level of trust
that I think was clear, um, and it's not an easy thing to do when- when there’re people are
experiencing really difficult challenging situations in their life and so I think for me that
was something that was really hopeful and I hope to see that that's something in more
places across our country so, um, I just want to always wanted to highlight that and I think
that the hearts and the commitments that of all the people that I've met there that are
regularly involved is really wonderful but there's just not a good- just not strong enough
word. I think it's just, um, I don’t want to say admirable because it's- it's clearly not
something that- it should be something that we all have, um, but they're actually doing it,
so I would say I applaud them for that. But I think it's that thanks for opening up my eyes
and, um, just that, um, engaging, so I just- thank you, is the best way to say it. I'm
rambling…so, but it's a great place. I think, I really hope that we can build that kind of
relationship here.
Samantha Gibson
26:15
Oral History Interview with Melinda Dively-White,
Page 10 2018
of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
S
Samantha Gibson
26:15
Yeah. It's helpful to see an example of something like that.
M
Melinda Dively-White
26:20
Yeah.
S
Samantha Gibson
26:21
Well, thank you for joining me today.
M
Melinda Dively-White
26:25
I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much for inviting me.
Oral History Interview with Melinda Dively-White,
Page 11 2018
of 11
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Oral History Interview with Kathleen
'Katie' M. Clark (2019)...
Tue, 3/9 4:38PM
46:57
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, nursing, students, thinking, commons, augsburg, health, dnp, working, space, community,
piece, day, offered, center, open, department, years, ended, bsn program
SPEAKERS
Kathl... Show more
Oral History Interview with Kathleen
'Katie' M. Clark (2019)...
Tue, 3/9 4:38PM
46:57
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, nursing, students, thinking, commons, augsburg, health, dnp, working, space, community,
piece, day, offered, center, open, department, years, ended, bsn program
SPEAKERS
Kathleen Clark, Kaija Freborg
K
Kaija Freborg 00:04
Thank you for joining us today for this oral history project on the on the Department of
nursing for Augsburg University. My name is Kaija Freborg. I'm an assistant professor and
director of the BSN program here at Augsburg, could you please introduce yourself for the
record for the recording and tell us what your position is?
Kathleen Clark 00:23
At the university? Yes, my name is Katie Clark, and I'm an assistant professor of nursing
and I also direct the Augsburg central health commons.
K
Kaija Freborg 01:24
Great. Before we continue, I'd like to confirm that you consent to being interviewed and
having that interview stored at Augsburg University, which will be made available to the
public.
Kathleen Clark 01:24
Oral History Interview with Kathleen 'Katie'Page
M. Clark
1 of 16
(2019)...
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Yes.
K
Kaija Freborg 01:24
Thank you. So can you tell us about where you grew up? Or who you call family?
Kathleen Clark 01:24
Yeah, so I grew up primarily in White Bear Lake, Minnesota. And pretty traditional family
of my mom, dad and two brothers. I'm the oldest of my three siblings.
K
Kaija Freborg 01:24
What led you to the nursing profession?
Kathleen Clark 01:24
Well, if you ask my grandma, she'll tell you when I was four, I told her that I was going to
go to Africa and bring all of our leftover food to people on the on the pictures of National
Geographic because I said that I wanted to, you know, be a helper, I guess. But it became
more clear to me the older I got that. I wanted to do something where it was working with
people and nursing seemed like a good fit. So yeah, with that I kind of decided right away
when I went to Eau Claire that that's the major I wanted to pursue.
K
Kaija Freborg 01:24
Can you tell us more about your educational background, your experience in Eau Claire?
Kathleen Clark 01:54
Sure. So I went to the University of Wisconsin, Eau Claire. I graduated in 2002, my BSN
from there. And then and I'm trying to remember, I was working in the bedside at the
bedside for a long time for six years at the University of Minnesota Medical Center also, as
the U hospitals changes its name all the time, but I worked in oncology for six years there.
And when I was there, I was thinking that I was ready to go back to school and I was
thinking about a nurse practitioner degree. And I actually applied at St. Kate's and was
going in for my interview and one of my friends had mentioned to me because I had been
traveling a lot and volunteering in different places that Augsburg had a program where it
Oral History Interview with Kathleen 'Katie'Page
M. Clark
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
was focused on transcultural nursing, and I could travel and get my masters at the same
time. And so I looked at it I applied and I ended up not going to my interview and started
my Master's in transcultural Nursing at Augsburg at that time. And then so I graduated
with that I want to say in 2011. And then I graduated with my I ended up working or being
hired to coordinate the whole Commons that towards the end of my Masters while still
working at the U and then I was in the medical ICU for a few years. And then ended up
going back for my DNP which I graduated in 2014 with prolonged work.
K
Kaija Freborg 02:19
So how did you end up teaching at Augsburg?
Kathleen Clark 02:21
So when I was doing my Masters, I really focused on working with homeless youth I was
actually at the Bridge for Youth and I really wanted to dive all in and the bridge for youth.
They wouldn't take nurses at that time, even though they had a nurse because they didn't
want somebody coming in for 36 hours doing their hours and then being done when it
took a lot of time and effort from the nurse to really train somebody in and it was really a
hard population to connect with. So I ended up doing what they have an internship for
people who are getting their master's in like family psychology and therapy. And so I
ended up doing that internship to prove that I was committed. So I use that for many my
practicum hours where I was working, taking crisis calls at the bridge for you, which is
mostly it's 10 to 17 year olds, and it's over and uptown. So at that shelter, so I was taking
crisis calls, I was helping connect with resources. I was helping with the youth that were
there. And so, as I was doing that, I ended up doing my final project there, but I ended up
being able to work with the nurse Cheree Langmade she then got married and is now
Cheree O'Shields. So with her, I got to meet with the youth, I got to do outreach. I mean, it
was just like the most amazing experience to have. And as I started doing that, and then
taking the classes, I realize like, how transformative having some of those experiences was
for my ability to connect and kind of see some of the gaps that were presenting
themselves in my inpatient experiences. And it made me really fired up that we need to
have nurses understand this more nursing just doesn't happen at the bedside, how do we
get people more involved with the community that they're in? And so I was talking to my
advisor about it at the time. And my advisor, Magdeline said, well, there's an opening to
direct our health commons, or at that time, it was called the nursing center, maybe you
should think about applying, and I wasn't done with my Masters yet. So I didn't think there
would be any way I would get it. But I applied and interviewed and they took me, so
Oral History Interview with Kathleen 'Katie'Page
M. Clark
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K
Kaija Freborg 06:06
what classes do you primarily teach and what's been your most memorable teaching
experience.
Kathleen Clark 06:13
So currently, I mostly teach in the graduate program, politics of healthcare, 541. And then
802, which is a doctorate course, making room at the table. So, but I've been at the
college now or the university for 11 years. So I also taught community health in the BSN
program, one in two. So I would say that I really, I really love teaching, especially in
courses where there's an experiential piece, because I feel like it lets the students go a
little deeper than just discussions and readings, which are very important, but also it really
lets them kind of get out of their comfort zone and really see things through a different
lens. So I love the experiential learning pieces, as much as it can be a lot more work to
teach in that manner. I think it's had some good outcomes for students.
K
Kaija Freborg 07:22
What what's your work like? been at the health commons What stands out to the most
about what you're doing there?
Kathleen Clark 07:30
It's a good question. Um, there's so much so the health commons, like I said, Originally, it
was called the nursing center it had started in 1992. And I'll just kind of maybe give a little
bit of the history from what I've learned over the years. But I've been in this role for 11
years now. So that originally started with Bob Nillson, who was the chair at that, at that
time, and actually, I just was reading this article that Sharon Wade found that was very
insightful that really was talking about how, bear with me for a second, I should have
pulled this out earlier, I could find it. But it was really bad was wanting to so at the time,
nursing centers were kind of becoming like a new thing that nurses were doing, not only
could they practice independently, but it was a way for nurses to build trust in the
community. And also at that time, she was a parishioner at Central Lutheran Church and
central Lutheran Church had been doing all these things, including a free clothing closet
for people experiencing homelessness in the inner city of Minneapolis. So she saw that
saw an opportunity that students could come maybe check some blood pressures, get to
know folks and really kind of have a more service learning experience. There's also focus
on health fairs, and Health Promotion type activities. They had vouchers for people to go
to nearby pharmacies and get things like topical creams and whatever somebody might
Oral History Interview with Kathleen 'Katie'Page
M. Clark
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need from over the counter pieces. So they had vouchers to send people to Walgreens or
it was a nearby pharmacy. And so anyhow, as they open there is kind of the shift in
thinking over the years that this isn't about providing of service. But this is really about
mutual benefit coming in understanding a population that's often misunderstood or
marginalized when they come into our healthcare sectors. They might be seen as labeled
as a frequent fliers or maybe they're non compliant or whatever it may be. And so they
feel judged when they come into the health or when they come into our ers or other
healthcare settings. And so we are able to be there in that moment to hopefully kind of
break down some barriers. Come together, get to know each other, figure out what people
want for their health. And also, it's an opportunity for nurses to understand a population
that is often hidden from their own. And so for example, we've had students even talk
about going to do outreach at times, which we've done on and off from here, and here
and there, where, you know, usually you're walking down on Nicollet Avenue, and you see
all the working people as far as everyone's going to lunches and meetings and, or going
out to dinners or going to concerts or whatever. But when you're doing outreach, all
sudden, you see these and it's almost like things you never saw before. So people who are
literally trying to blend in and hang out, or we call squat in the background just to survive
through the day and find a warm place to stay or a meal to eat or whatever it may be.
But so anyhow, so the health comments itself, was originally in the basement of the
church, it was a room that was had two doors, one that you can kind of go in, and when
that you would come out, there's kind of like a one, one. So people come in and kind of to
waves so they come in, they get hygiene products. So since the beginning, we've offered
socks, socks are the main requested item, it's how we keep track of our numbers, we count
the number of socks each day, because basically everyone wants socks, because with feet
being your main mode of transportation, and you have used or cheap shoes, you can
imagine what people's feet are like and if you take your shoes off at many of the shelters,
as many of our guests are experiencing homelessness or marginally housed, you can
imagine what people's feet are like so then at the shelter, sometimes people's shoes will
get stolen even when they're on their feet. So I mean, there's just like the foot situation is
horrific at times. So and then we have basic hygiene things like mostly travel size, like
shampoo, conditioner, razors, deodorant. And then we also have diapers diapers aren't
covered by WIC or food stamps. So if you have children, you can imagine the costs that
goes along with that. And then we also have wipes with which people also use for if they
don't have access to shower, which is a huge problem right now. Right now there's the
opioid epidemic is really hitting the area hard. And so people are often not allowing
people to shower because there's so much fear that people are getting high in the shower,
and that they're going to overdose. And so it's just like this very complicated thing at this
time, which is really hard for people. And then. So we kind of have all that and then
underwear, our other major item, which if you can imagine, if you don't have access to
shower, and you don't have clean clothes, and you're wearing the same pair of underwear
Oral History Interview with Kathleen 'Katie'Page
M. Clark
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for a long time, you can imagine the need for that. So that's kind of like our first wave of
visitors and always kind of has been and then a second way will, which is about a third of
the folks, maybe a fourth, depending on the day will come and meet one on one with the
nurse. And it's usually people who have not who've been there a couple times, usually it
takes some time to establish some trust. And so they might want their blood pressure
checked, they might talk about a rash that they have, they might simply just want to talk
about what's happening in their day. And a lot of it is about just having a moment to be
heard, to really not be there to say for us to judge or diagnose or assess, but really to be
present and really to hear pull out the strengths that people are saying, figure out how we
can best help them in some way. Like for example, I've had this woman come in multiple
times. She's there almost every time we're open, her blood pressure is always through the
roof. And I'm talking like 200 over 120. She had her stroke through three months ago. And
in my impatient world with the protocols and other technocratic skills that are there that
dictate how you would respond. It's very uncomfortable at times. But in this setting, I am
not the expert and she is able to speak for herself. And she is doing the best that she can.
And for her she's more worried about where she's going to eat. And if she goes into the
doctor who's going to take her scooter like her scooter is a big deal for her because
somebody might steal it. So with her it's more trying to meet her where she's at and figure
out where she can go and how we can help along that journey but also trying to suspend
the judgment in it because we think that people should be doing a certain thing. But that's
all coming from empirical ways of knowing and not thinking about all the factors that
really affect people's health. So anyhow, there's lots of things that kind of happen in those
moments that are very unscripted on dictated as far as like the one on one meeting with a
nurse, we do foot care. Sometimes we have wounds, I have a guy who keeps coming in
who has a recent gunshot wound. And I give him supplies and the space to now he does it
on his own. Because he can't do it at the shelter. And again, having access to the
bathroom on your own or shower is very limited with all the things that are happening
with the opioid problem. And so just giving him the space to take care of himself, which is
really can be hard when you're going from place to place. The other big thing that we do
that other places don't is we don't ask for an ID or insurance, so anyone can come in. And
most of the time, I only know people's what we call street names, lots of people go by
street names versus their real names. And so and that's, it's how they want what what do
they want me to know about that? So my name is Snoop. Alright, Snoop. You know, I've
known Snoop now for 10 years. But I know that's not his real name. But that is how he
identifies himself. So yeah, that was a very long answer. But yeah, so we ended up so we
were on this like smaller basement room for a long time, that actually looked a lot more
medical, it was more like a long hallway. with not a lot of places to for people to meet one
on one, then we ended up moving down the hallway as the church open what's called the
restoration Center, which is basically more like a drop in center or day shelter. And so then
they kind of put they had this old preschool area with multiple school rooms turn into a
Oral History Interview with Kathleen 'Katie'Page
M. Clark
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Health Commons, and then the clothing closet. And then there's job coaches. And then
there's a pastor who works one on ones with folks with rental systems and things like that.
So we moved down the hall to this massive room, which was amazing, as far as there's so
much room to meet and have more privacy. But that building in itself was costing the
church a lot of money to maintain. And so they ended up tearing that down three years
ago. Now we moved to a trailer for a few years. And then we now move back into this new
space, which I was able to give input into about what I wanted what it looks like. So it's
beautiful, it's open, it has natural light. And there's a room that actually has a shower and
a washing machine. Then there's another room that I can meet one on one with people in
and then it has a closet full of supplies, we have another club, huge closet, the biggest
closet in the whole, the whole new building for other donations to have there. And then
there's two, actually, there's three sinks in that room. And then so there's a kind of an open
space. My main thing that's been hard is that there's it's not very big. But so it's hard to
give people that autonomy. So I find that like a lot of times, some are really severely
mentally ill individuals who, who really have a lot of paranoia. For example, one
gentleman who came in a lot of every time we were open, he wanted to sit in a chair
where he could be in the corner and then see where everybody was. He's schizophrenic.
And not that that matters. We don't care about that type of diagnosis when we're there.
But also it helps me that I know that in the fact of what triggers him. And so he wanted to
be in control of knowing who was around him all the time. So being that the space is so
small, like he hasn't come into the new space. I've seen him at the church once but he
really kind of came in and left. So whether it's he's still trying to figure out what what the
new space is. And if you feel safe there or what not, it is kind of changing a little bit of the
dynamic, but it's, it's a space that's provided to us and always has been for free. But we do
have an ongoing partnership with the church as far as they, I would never do anything
without going in and asking them first, we very much have a supportive relationship. But
in the same instance, they've really allowed us to have this be what we want it to be and
not force any kind of ideals or you have to do X, Y and Z if you're going to have the space
which is beautiful, and the restorations that are really focused on social justice, not
thinking through much as the charity lens of things and really like the relationship piece
which is so important to us as well. So it's it's made sense it's been very, very beautiful
relationship that we've been able to have over years with. Yeah. So is there I'm trying to.
Yeah. So that was a very long, long winded question or answer, but a little bit information
is is very much welcome.
K
Kaija Freborg 20:14
So thank you. You've talked a lot about the health commons. I know you've done a lot of
work with immersion, you know, class, experiential opportunities for students, can you tell
me how students respond to your teachings in these spaces?
Oral History Interview with Kathleen 'Katie'Page
M. Clark
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Kathleen Clark 20:35
Sure. So I mean, every student is definitely different and comes with their own experiences
and ideas. So in my experiences at the health common, so backing up just a little bit, too,
so we have the Augsburg Central Health Commons. And then in 2011, as part of my DNP
project, we started another health Commons in Cedar Riverside. And so that one has been
around now since then. And that one is working more in the neighborhood with mostly
East African immigrants. And we are partnered with Fairview and the East Africa health
project. And also, it's in many different places, and is open more days and more hours. So
we're in the chase building of the riverside plazas during the weekdays. And then on
Fridays, we have mobile outreach day, which we go to like the elderly public housing
units. And then we also have swimming, which is a big deal for the women to have a place
that they can go where they can draw the curtains, and no one can see them so they can
swim in a culturally appropriate area. And we have gardening where we work with the
gleaning program as well, where we go to mill cities farmers market, pick over up the
leftover produce from some of the vendors there and bring it back into the neighborhood.
And it's kind of morphed and changed over time. There's we're always trying to provide
programs that respond to that express felt need. I have not been the director there now
since 2015.
K
Kaija Freborg 22:19
And how long has it been going you didn't say what year it started.
Kathleen Clark 22:22
2011 is when we officially opened. So I think it was the spring of 2015 that Rebecca
Hartwig became the director, as both as directing both of them and teaching was a lot.
And it's hard to maintain all of that, and a life with three kids and a husband. So anyhow,
Rebecca has been there. But anyhow, so that has been another experience that has been
embedded into our program. So I'm so at Central, I would say that it has been so well
established, the students come in, we have every time we're open, at least 60 usually
more like 100 people in that hour and a half or open come through and and get things
and so, I think that students get it, they are excited about it, they came to Augsburg
because of the trans cultural focus. So they usually the first time they come to health
comments, which is embedded in our BSN, introductory course 300 and has been for
many years. So those students really kind of have this like awakening or realization of
biases they might have or how how they really want to engage as nurses and what they
might want to do long term. So you really see students come in, kind of almost like
overwhelmed at times, they might be coming from Rochester and have limited exposure
Oral History Interview with Kathleen 'Katie'Page
M. Clark
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to homelessness, or they might be very stressful all the things in their life. And they come
they're like, here's another thing I have to do. But usually by the end, they're like, I'm so
glad I had this experience. I've never had an experience like this as a nurse. In a setting
like this. It's so open or inorganic and unscripted really lets you just be and connect until
students usually really have an eye opening experience the first time those of the students
that come in the graduate program and come back over time, they really can start diving
into some of those relationships or challenging some of those stereotypes that they
themselves might have. And kind of dig deeper, if you will. And then in the suit of Riverside
health commons that in we have that in one of our first graduate classes for students
where they have to go and have an experience and it's usually on Fridays because it is the
main prayer day in the neighborhood. So people are out and about and so students
usually have had limited exposure to be an animal In a setting like that, where it's in a
neighborhood that has been projected to be many things, as far as some pretty horrible
nicknames or labels from being a place that's really been either a place of new
immigrants or where people are living in extreme poverty. So I think there's a lot of worry
about coming into that neighborhood and biases. And then the students are able to come
in and really have this like connection to a culture that they've they've probably intersect
with, especially weak with East African immigrants, many of them have had, you know, co
workers and friends who have come from that culture, but never to be in the setting where
it's really there's five moss on the food is authentic, and they're able to really connect with
people in a different way. And so those students really seem to have an impactful
experience, too. It looks different, there's less people coming in. And it's more about
providing opportunities for community to gather and being a resource, and providing
things like massage and healing touch and blood pressure checks and going over
medications. So it looks different, but it is very much based on the same model of
practice.
K
Kaija Freborg 26:22
Could you speak to the Rochester site?
Kathleen Clark 26:25
Sure. So last year, three graduate DNP students started the Rochester health common. So
right now it has been open for let's see, it's been open for a year. And it is in a space that is
part of the food shelf that's offered at Bethel. So Bethel Lutheran Church in Rochester,
Minnesota. And so the students now have been there. This is actually the beginning of the
second year and all this fall. And so the students have offered space and place for folks to
gather, they usually have what it seems to the people who are marginally house, so they
probably are not staying in shelter, but they are working multiple jobs or kind of what we
Oral History Interview with Kathleen 'Katie'Page
M. Clark
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say. When you think about marginally housing might be in and out of homelessness, or
couch hopping is often what happens in those situations where they might stay friends for
a while, and then they might end up sleeping in their car. there's not as many shelters in
Rochester. So they typically have around 20 people who come and the students who are
going there there. So the three graduate students who have started it are there, but then
they have taken in a few students at a time to kind of come and help with the daily
operation. And so it's very much a pilot, we're not sure where it's going to land. But it's
been really awesome to have these students kind of fall in love with the idea of starting
health comments, and what could that look like? And they're doing all this work in
establishing themselves in a community and a partnership. And yeah, they've done an
excellent job.
K
Kaija Freborg 28:15
What should nurses know about practicing from the frameworks that you've sort of
touched on trans cultural lens or holistic nursing?
Kathleen Clark 28:28
say more about that, again, what do you
K
Kaija Freborg 28:30
what should nurses know about practicing from a transcultural framework or holistic,
nursing lens?
Kathleen Clark 28:38
Sure, so many things, where to begin, I guess, the thing that kind of resonates with me the
most is showing up being authentically there. And thinking about all the different ways of
knowing that we talked about in our program that are so important, but sometimes, the
beginning step in learning any of these things is kind of self awareness. And as people
become aware of themselves, both professionally and personally, they're able to dig a
little deeper and really begin to understand the society around us that has created these
health implications and health disparities. And by a better understanding ourselves, we're
better able to understand the world that we're in and better able to understand the world
as we would want it. And so I think that it takes a student to really have passion and to
want to do more than be the best or the smartest when it comes to medical intervention.
And that's very important, but there's also a whole person and there's also a whole
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M. Clark
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community. And so with each patient we care for, we have to think about things in bigger
ways, or what we're doing is not going to work. It's not working, our healthcare system is
not working. And so who's going to be able to lead the way to change those things better
than nurses who understand transcultural nursing, or holistic nursing or whatever, lens, we
want to give it as far as like thinking about, you know, the theory that we all love and
know. But, um, yeah, there's always more to it. And health happens in so many different
ways in so many different forms and thinking that we know the answers is, is the first thing
that we kind of need to unpack and realize is we don't, we don't, we can think we don't,
but we don't. So having that humility to know we're not always the experts, and to de
emphasize those professional tasks is huge. But also is part of the world of healthcare
right now, too. So how do we navigate all of that? And how do we support each other? I
think that's the other big piece in all this is, you know, nurses, we've all been taught to be
so individualistic. How can we really realize that we need each other we need to support
each other? And that matters? I don't know if I really answered your question. But no,
K
Kaija Freborg 31:24
I think that is a beautiful explanation. Thank you. If there would be something that we
could improve upon in the department, what would that be? Do you imagine?
Kathleen Clark 31:33
Oh, well, I think it's probably at the university level in general, we're all very passionate
about what we do. And because of that, we don't say no. So I think we're all overworked. I
think the program or the department has bennish, strong group of brilliantly minded
women that I adore, and I am so happy that I've been able to work with everyone. But I
think that because our passions and when think about it, in the last how many years we've
started, how many tracks in the program, you know, when we do that without extra FTE,
or we do it working overloads. And so oftentimes, we don't set limits. And I think that is the
biggest thing that we need to figure out how to do for the longevity of the program,
because we can't just always be working. And we can't tell students that about self care
and being involved in the community when we're not able to sometimes do things
ourselves because we are sacrificing things for the greater good, which I understand. But
we need to figure out how we do that better.
K
Kaija Freborg 32:45
Where do you see the department being in 20 years from now?
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Kathleen Clark 32:51
I think we're at a pivotal moment. I'm not sure I think we will either be expanding down
the licensure track, whether it's more nurse practitioner programs, or even certification
programs, maybe there's always talk of if we start a BSN program or a traditional BSN
program. I think that our transcultural nursing program is something that's very unique.
And is not well known about and I don't know how we do that better. Exactly. But I think
that are kind of pivotal time where either I mean, and maybe it will all grow. I'm not sure
but I feel like it's going to go one way or the other either. We're going to kind of stay
where we're at and expand and grow with what we have or we're going to go focus more
one track or the other. I don't know it'll be it'll be good. I do have some concerns. Some of
our major foundational leaders are retiring, which is good, they should retire. And that's
wonderful. But you know, Ruth Enestvedt, she was very foundational in the work and, and
the DNP created the DNP program with Cheryl Leuning. But Ruth retired A few years ago,
Katherine Baumgartner as well retired a few years ago. And then now we have some
other major leaders retiring in the near future. And so how do we make sure we continue
on the work? It's, it'll be an interest in sharing weight. I mean, sharing weight has been
pivotal and keeping this all afloat, and she will be retiring soon. So there's just so many
unknowns that I I think it's also opportunity to think about who else and what else so I'm
excited but also pause to think about what that could be.
K
Kaija Freborg 34:57
Is there anything else that you'd like to tell us that we haven't asked? yet?
Kathleen Clark 35:03
No, I think that another thing that's changing too is we're thinking about doing more
online. And I think that's great. And for me, I'm just getting off of this like, two days ahead
of an immersion for making room at the table, there's four days that we do. And, you
know, the students in that class just by the the last day of immersion, they're like, I mean,
yesterday, they were on fire. I mean, they were on fire the whole time. And they were like,
this is exactly why we signed up to come to Augsburg. We want more of this type of
learning. This, we learned so much in this class, not only about like, from women who have
been prostituted or in the life, we call it from people who are living on the streets, straight
from their stories, from going to jail and talking about mass incarceration, and how it's
The New Jim Crow, I mean, just really looking at root causes for things and really
engaging in ways that we don't often do, because of the relationships that people have in
the department. Because of the opportunities that lay about. I, the students were like, We
want more of this. This was remarkable. And this is why we came to Augsburg and these
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are students in the FNP track of the DNP. And so as we think about being it more
accessible to people across the country, I'm also fearful of losing some of the
opportunities that I think are so unique to us and what make us Augsburg. So, I guess,
being that, you know, when I started, I took over a lot of what Ruth had been establishing
as far as experiential learning. And so it was kind of my introduction into teaching in
higher ed. And so now that that's kind of been the way I've learned it, going and teaching
in traditional formats, which I've had, I also enjoy, but there's a piece of it, that really
allows students to dig deeper, and synthesize together and process and push each other
and push I mean, their students pushing each other in such beautiful ways around biases,
and, and doing better. And they were doing the work themselves just because of the
challenges that they saw together. I mean, it was, I just really hope we don't forget too
much about that as we think about being more online. But it's also the world we're in,
everything's moving online, and I'm not sure that programs will continue on that don't
kind of move in this direction, at least partially. So yeah. And the other piece, I would think
I would want to make sure, you know, to add to is thinking about the model. And the
model of nursing practice that was established at the Health Commons really was driven
by the students, the students and faculty created it together. And it is a remarkable
journey to see where it's landed, and how much it's grown. So making sure that people
know about that article and, and how it was really co created together. And, you know,
also thinking about how much we've worked with disable center for democracy and
citizenship and working with Harry Boyd, and Dennis Donovan and Elaine Eschenbacher
and just thinking about how, you know, we get students all excited and ramped up about
how do we create change? And how do we do all these things. But then often, we weren't
giving them the tools. So now we're trying to embed these skills in our work, doing more
with the Kettering foundation to understand how to even make it a little bit even more
intentional and, and more solidified and research the outcomes better evaluate them. So I
think that that's also a thing that will be exciting to see where it all lands as well. The
other piece that would be good to have in history, too, is thinking about this shift in name
from the nursing center to health commons I think, the nursing center. There was kind of a
couple of things, but one was that when the accreditors had come and seen that we are
calling ourselves a nursing center, they thought we would have prescriptions and because
physical assessments and a very thorough documentation, which we actually don't even
really document we do like a little glimpse of who is there as far as like little tally marks on
a list, but don't collect personal information. And we used to we used to have charts, but
people weren't giving us their real names. And it was taken away from the interactions.
And and so it seemed like is this really necessary and so we went away with it, but also
Health commons in nursing center kind of translated differently in the Somali language.
So, because of those two kinds of things, we decided that let's call it a health comments,
that's where it is. It's really a gathering space where people come and they meet as equals
in solidarity, and hopefully are trying to figure out where to go. That was a perfect always
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like that, no, but we're always trying to be open and fluid and make it be something that
everybody has ownership in. So I don't have enough students or volunteers. I'm in the
hallway, asking people who wants to help volunteer today, you could have an extra pair of
socks. And to me, those are the most beautiful days. It's everybody working together. At
the cedar Riverside health commons, you know, I think one of our things that we always
say is a long term goal would be have the community take it over, we're not even a piece
of it. And I think it's moving in that direction. There's a lot of training the trainer programs,
there's a lot of times where you, we are stepping back and letting the community dictate
the direction where it's going. And so that's beautiful. And that's exactly what we want to
do. The bilingual community liaison that we have, there are really members from the
community who have stepped up in some kind of leadership roles. And it's, it's been great.
So And along the way, we've had amazing partners, whether it's Dr. Osman or volunteers
like Martha Gisselquist, who oral histories are both down on if you get a chance to listen
to June sand is another pivotal person. So really just all this work that the department has
done has been remarkable. But also it's been remarkable because of the people that
we're able to meet along the way, and our cultural guides in many different settings.
K
Kaija Freborg 41:50
You mentioned earlier, something about the nursing model, the health commons, could
you dive into a little deeper about that?
Kathleen Clark 41:59
Sure. So in 2009, when I was first started there, what that was the first DNP class, they
were working at the health Commons and wanted to come up with a model. So really
everything about the model, the core of it is hospitality. And what does that look like? So
thinking about that in different ways. So at Central is offering a cup of coffee, it's making
eye contact, it's not it's giving people choice. It's not making people feel like they have to
share something with us in order to gain something at Cedar Riverside, it's offering Somali
tea, or San boosah, or, you know, offering just a space to gather. So really, hospitality
looks different in many different ways. And, and as in the term radical hospitality has been
used, also thinking about what that can be in that space. And really, that comes from
Gustavo, one of our cultural guides in wahaca. And some of his writings in grassroots post
modernism, and really thinking about how do gather as equals, how do you get away from
just being a helper or being a professional in the moment to connect How do you really
think about welcoming each other thinking about I always love Lillian Wald the right and,
and also thinking about Jane Addams and the Hull house, really, it's a it's a house where
everyone is in helping and health matters. But also we can all be health providers, you
don't have to have 22 years of college to be an expert in the house. But so really, that
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whole being together and, and be reciprocity, if you will. So that's kind of at the center of
everything, and acknowledging the need is kind of the first step. And let's see if I can get
these all right from the top of my head, but like, we think about acknowledging the need
really as like, okay, here's the pair of socks, take them, they're yours, you have to tell us
why you don't have to stay. We're here if you ever want to talk. So attending to the
struggle would be you know, thinking more like, okay, you know, as people take a little
more risk and sharing their a little bit more of their story, or maybe they're just gonna
come to the nurse and ask for band aids, but kind of that little little piece of, I'm taking
risk to be here and ask for a little bit more. And we're able to do that. And then really
uplifting the strengths that people have so affirming the strength. So when they're sitting
down and talking about all the different places that they have to go that day and
checking their blood pressure, well, how do you manage all of that and then you're still
going to check your blood pressure. That's remarkable. Tell me more why you care so
much about your blood pressure and Do you hope we can do? Or what's what, you know,
letting them kind of dictate where the conversation goes. Ruth always said, try not to ask
questions. Try not to fix it. Try to get out of that think way of thinking. And it's really hard
to do when you're so scripted to be the professional. So really being in those moments
and really listening hard, and really being able to tell people like, That's remarkable. I
don't know how you do that. And then really, the compliment at the end is how do we
walk along beside each other in a journey. And that doesn't happen with everyone. But
when it does happen, it is beautiful. And so right now, for example, the women's group has
kind of resurfaced, which is so great. So the women are really, there's a graduate student
working with them. And but the women are really dictating what it looks like what's
offered, what's offered, when it's offered, and how it's offered. And so, but supporting the
women who want to offer a space for women only together and, and being able to be
there for that is it's beautiful.
K
Kaija Freborg 46:06
So well, thank you for your time in this very, very, very rich account of the history of the
Department of Nursing at Augsburg University, we really appreciate your insights, all the
hard work and experience that you've brought to the table and have really impacted not
only the students expert experience, but the me, you know, shifting the nursing
department to be something much, much more critical and complex and, you know,
something that's needed so in regards to the program, so thank you.
Kathleen Clark 46:48
Thank you.
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Show less
Oral History Interview with Katherine
Baumgartner, 2018
Tue, 3/9 5:07PM
51:44
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, nursing, model, learn, dnp, students, space, support, oxford, department, taught, care,
class, profound, nurses, comments, augsburg, attending, part, bsn
SPEAKERS
Katherine Baumgartne... Show more
Oral History Interview with Katherine
Baumgartner, 2018
Tue, 3/9 5:07PM
51:44
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, nursing, model, learn, dnp, students, space, support, oxford, department, taught, care,
class, profound, nurses, comments, augsburg, attending, part, bsn
SPEAKERS
Katherine Baumgartner, Kaija Freborg, Kathleen Clark
K
Kaija Freborg 00:00
Hello, my name is Kaija Freborg. And for the recording I just want to recognize that Katie
Clark is also here with us today. Hello, could you please introduce yourself for the
recording?
K
Katherine Baumgartner 00:12
Katherine Baumgartner
K
Kaija Freborg 00:13
Thank you for joining us today in this world history project. Before we begin, I would like to
confirm that you consent to being interviewed and having that interview recording stored
at Augsburg University, which will we will make available to the public and do so to get us
started, can you tell us about yourself such as Where did you grow up? And who do you
call family?
K
Katherine Baumgartner 00:41
I grew up I grew up in Minnesota. And I grew up in a couple different towns St. Louis Park
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in Minnetonka. And those are cities. So I was more of an urban person and a rural person.
And I had a family of four parents and four kids in the family. And I have a twin sister,
which is one unique feature for me. And that's my family of origin. Great. What led you to
want to be a nurse? I think I had a really deep caring for just people very young in my life.
Even as a child I think I had I don't know where that was born in me. But it was born in me
somehow I might have been from like a very caring parents. But I knew that a long time.
K
Kaija Freborg 01:39
Can you tell us about your educational background?
K
Katherine Baumgartner 01:43
Well, let's see. I went to high school, Hopkins high school and went to college at Mankato
State University. And I majored in nursing and got my BSN. And that's important because
my mother was very clear that I needed to go to college and be nursing. Get that degree
versus going through it at that time. There were three year programs into your programs
that she said absolutely not, you need to college degree. And so I was always grateful that
she made that clear for her expectations. And I didn't know any better. So of course I
listened to her. After that I worked for many years and then eventually came back into a
decision to go back to college. And so I came to Augsburg University at that time
Augsburg college to major transcultural nursing and get my master's degree. And that
was a very big decision on my part because I felt I wasn't sure I could do a master's
degree and then I decided I could. And I was very drawn to the to the unique program of
transcultural nursing, that time they have Niels who was the department chair and she's
very inspiring about that idea of what does it mean to really work across multiple cultures
and populations and people from many different classes and different circumstances that
really appealed to me. So I came and got my master's degree here at Augsburg College.
And then after soon as I graduated, I was invited by the bench here, sure luening to come
and teach in the nursing department. And I taught for a few years and then was also very
much engaged in the first DNP TCN program, the Doctor of Nursing Practice in
transcultural nursing, and I was part of that first cohort and graduated with my DNP in
2011. What year did you start here? What do you remember about the department when
you started? What do you really start? I think he started in 2005. What do I remember
about it? I think I remember several things as a brand new faculty. I also had a nursing job
in another organization. So two jobs. I remember feeling overwhelmed, of course that
there was a lot to learn and ramp up my skills quickly. I remember there was just enormous
commitment and compassion and and hard workers at the nursing department was
composed of women, all women who were completely committed to nursing into the
vision for social justice and as well as transcultural nursing, that was very clear.
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K
Kaija Freborg 04:28
Going back to the work that you had done before as a nurse, can you tell us a little bit
about your history working with hospice for example and the program you started there?
K
Katherine Baumgartner 04:39
Sure. I worked about when I first graduated from college, I worked three years in Hennepin
County Medical Center as a staff nurse and then I went to Fairview and I worked three
years as a as a nurse manager in the inpatient setting and Then I really decided I wanted
to do something out in the community because it really intrigued me not only I was
interested in how people get well, but I was also interested in the role of families in that
people really need to be together in belonging in some way. And so it occurred to me that
I, one way to learn about that is to leave the hospital and work in community. So I was
invited by the then director of nursing in Fairview at that time to help develop a home
care and hospice program, which another nurse and I were employed to do that
development work. And we actually created the first Fairview homecare hospice program.
And that was really exciting for me. And my focus was more hospice and home care. And
so I spent time working on that developing that and when we first started, there were two
of us nurses. And we took care of hospice patients, when we took turns coming in call 24.
Seven, and we would rotate that, and we did that for about two years. And then finally,
we figured out, okay, we need a lot more staff, because there's a lot of potential for this
great program. So it started at those very grassroots, very grassroots, but it was fun. And I
really understood quickly that being in community, where people actually live their lives,
and people have relationships and context where they are, it really matters, how they how
they do. Can you speak more about how there was there a clear connection from your
hospice work to transcultural nursing. Yes. For me a couple things I? Well, first of all, I
worked in Minneapolis and Fairview, and that was Minnesota, and we tended to have a
population when I worked in Hong Kong has tended to be Caucasian and sort of middle
class or maybe lower middle class, but there was a lot of homogeneous populations that
they worked with. Then I moved to South Texas, and in the Rio Grande Valley, which is
very close to Mexico. And I began to work in home care and hospice there. And of course,
it's very much bilingual, bicultural, it's it's very complex dynamics, very intriguing and
wonderful, I met just incredible people. So the notion of having trans cultural skills, even
though I didn't have that word, I didn't know that word had never heard of men line grew
at that time. I didn't know that there was a whole body of knowledge related to this
particular kind of nursing, what I knew is that it's very interesting and very challenging to
work across cultural belief systems and working across language. And I was very in love
with all that it was fun and interesting and difficult and worth worth doing. So I got very
much involved in that when I lived in South Texas. So when I moved back five years later
to Minnesota, it was kind of a natural connection to say, oh, there is a thing called
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transcultural nursing, that I need to learn more about and be more aware of the of the real
deep concepts and learnings around that which was, I had not had formal education. But I
had a lot of great informal education. So that was great.
K
Kaija Freborg 08:33
Can you do so much about how the nursing department began, and, or how the
transcultural nursing came to be?
K
Kaija Freborg 08:43
I know that I have a very deep understanding of that. I know Bev Nillson was the director
of the chair of the department of nursing, had a vision for that. I don't know when in time
that came forward. I don't know that history. When I came to work on my master's degree
that was a little established. It was very innovative in my mind, but I don't know how that
was born into it Do know Augsburg University has a long history of committing to
immigrants and to commit commitment to social justice issues and really paying
attention to the social dynamics that keep people engaged in society or marginalized
people. artwork has that tradition. And I think that the nursing department also his
alignment that early on, which I was very drawn to.
K
Kaija Freborg 09:39
You alluded to this earlier, but how does such a small group of women not only run the
department but create many different programs in tracks? How did you manage all of
this?
K
Kaija Freborg 09:52
There were many days what I don't know how we managed on it. I think there's just
tremendous commitment. I think people are called to this work. So it's such as a job. And
it's very clear very quickly that people in department call to do this work. So of course,
they do more, spend more time have more commitments, school the extra mile, every day
because of it. So that's how it happened. What kept you here, safely? The calling. It's really
inspiring. Chris, you have amazing students. And they're inspiring and teach you a lot, as
well as our colleagues or colleagues, especially in their state department, but in the larger
community at Augsburg. There's a lot of very gifted and wise people here that inspire all
of us to to do the work, we're called to do. courses to do primarily teach. Well, when I first
came to Augsburg, I was the BSN director in the Minneapolis campus. And so that meant
that I taught a lot of the undergraduate courses, which I think there's still seven I think I
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took all of them except the leadership one. So the trends class, the communications class,
the family class, forget them, because it was a while ago. But I taught really all the BSN,
baccalaureate level classes when I first came over the period of some years, as well as
supervising and supporting the faculty that were in that program, as well as advising
students in curriculum development evaluation. And then I also started eventually moving
into some of the graduate programs. And then in that one I taught transcultural nursing
course for many years of politics and healthkart course for many years. And then as we
moved into the DNP, the doctoral program that I began to teach or co teach some of
those courses that cosmology class in class on making room at the table. Thank you. So,
so cross all the probe eventually, across all the programs. I never have taught though, in
the FNP program, because I'm not a family nurse practitioner. So that's one of the
programs that teach in.
K
Kaija Freborg 12:25
What was your most memorable teaching experience?
K
Katherine Baumgartner 12:30
Oh, that's a really hard one. Probably I would say, most of them are related to some of the
emergency when my favorite parts of Augsburg and Augsburg nursing department is that
there is this capacity to take students out of the classroom into incredible environments.
And so whether they're being national or local, or international, those are the teachings
that are most profound for me. So for example, I've taken students to walk in Mexico for
many years, for a day of the dead experience in terms of understanding, respect in
relationship with death and dying in any family and all families. And watching and being
a part of the learning experience for students is very profound for me really wonderful. In
that particular practice has expanded into learning more about healing practices, which
has also been very, very profound for me to be a part of learning about that, and
engaging students and then watching students be engaged in how they are integrating
those ideas, and really getting very inspired by that for their own practice.
K
Kaija Freborg 13:50
Can you give a little insight into Guatemala as well as you led that for many years as well?
hearing anything you want to remember from that or how it was shaped?
K
Katherine Baumgartner 14:03
I think that the immersion experiences we had in Guatemala, they had a different focus
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than Mexico. The focus of Guatemala was much more about social justice issues in really
understanding how persons who have had long histories of severe oppression and even
genocide, the Mayan people of Guatemala have survived in and, and have been able to
continue to uphold their cultural values in their cultural ways, and continue to be a very
vital cultural force in the world but certainly in Guatemala, so that one is a more politically
loaded and it has much more stress and emphasis on social justice and how Power
Systems oppressive and how do you change systems and how how are their how our
voices heard and how do people Organize community organizing skills, there's a whole set
of, of contexts within that particular place in the world that lends itself very well to talk
about these very hard issues, which do connect for nursing because Nursing at a part of
the social justice systems, wherever you're working,
K
Kaija Freborg 15:21
when did you your work at the health Commons begin? What did it look like at that time
and who else was there?
K
Katherine Baumgartner 15:29
Um, I don't know that I can give you a date. feel like I've done it a long time. But I don't
know when in time and started. When I first started working route, Dennis bed was leading
it with Linda Holt, was another faculty and those two women. Even though the health
conferences started by Ben Nielsen, Ruth and Ruth were really the people who were
organizing it and attending to the weekly work of that. And somewhere along the line, we
started bringing students down here and I began to join that effort. But I wasn't formally in
a role there. And we just be with students. I can't remember what year I started coming
down there on a regular basis, it might have been encumbered with retired, but I can't
remember right. But then there was a point in time when Ruth and Linda retired and then
Ruth retired. And then I was more consistently present there. It certainly worked for many
years ago, Katie, and, and we would alternate different days of the week when we would
be present. And certainly the the nursing presence there, along with our wonderful
colleagues who were part of the church there, as well as people who, who just took
leadership roles in the health comments, as they showed up, which is quite extraordinary.
There was more than one location there, the the places, the literals context is space of
that have comments has had many different faces. And what I think when I first came,
there was I don't know, it's about three steps up from a closet, it's just not exactly a
wonderful space, but it was a space that was what was given and provided. And people
came and went, I remember it being rather crowded in very little space to for, for people
who wanted to come and visit the room space for them literally to be and to stand in the
hallway. And so it wasn't, didn't have the same kind of feel of hospitality, that eventually,
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we got a little bit larger space. And then we can actually have coffee, and we can have a
little table. And then that shifted some of the context in the environment to make it more
hospitable. And more welcoming, is a place just to be not necessarily to get something in
terms of socks, and we'll things which are all fine, too. But there's more to it than just
coming in picking up something and leaving. And I think the space that got to be more
hospitable, was this wonderful, welcoming space. So people come have a conversation,
and just kind of be there for a while. And I thought that was very powerful. Besides the
change in space, was there any other significant changes that you can come to mind?
When you think about when you first started there? I I guess I'd have to say that I think we
got more clear about what our care model would be to teach, I would say, I mean, I think
there's always was an intention to be welcoming and supportive to people who are living
in the margins. But the DNP class that I was probably a part of, began to articulate and
visualize the care model in a way that that was just an evolution of great thinking from
Ruth and Linda. But we actually created a visual model and did some gave some more
language around it. And I think that was helpful in terms of clarifying what more can this
be? And how can we share this model with the public and we literally put it up on the wall,
and we really began to talk about it more. And with our students who'd come, all the BSN
students had experiences down there and then start some of the master's students. I think
it gave us a more of a grounding vision for the work. And I actually felt like it was very
helpful. And that I think it gave him more of a sense that this is this is also called work and
it's not easy to do this work and we have to really be thinking about the theories and the
ideas, the concepts around what does it mean to be hospitable? What does it mean to be
not judging? What does it mean to have mutuality these Some very profound ideas that
are drawn into that model that are not common language in most conversations. And so
for us to have that model in and introduce it to our students and introduce it to anybody
who walks in that room, I felt was very transforming. I think it helped us to say loudly,
we're here. Because we all need, we all need to be in our relationship with one another to
promote our own health. I really appreciate it That was really helpful to me personally,
working.
K
Kaija Freborg 20:36
You were one of many visionaries behind the development of the model. For the health
commons, can you tell us about the process of creating the model and explain it from your
point of view?
K
Katherine Baumgartner 20:54
I think the process again, we're standing on the shoulders of great thinkers and workers
with Ruth especially. But I think part of part of the evolution of model is living. And being in
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those spaces and working with people who are in the margins, it's not an easy rule to
understand. And coming from education and privilege, you know, it's hard for me to
understand what it's like to not know where someone's sleeping tonight. So it's not
something simple to get to that understanding. And for me that one of the big key
concepts in the model is mutual. And the understanding of my health is related to your
health is really a profound idea. And not easily seen in many healthcare settings. So it was
quite radical to put that in that setting in and then live that out. And part of the evolution
model is living it out in actually being in presence with people who are coming and going
and having all sorts of complicated life circumstances, most of which we don't know. And
still being open to hearing in and listening to what people's struggle theory. And it's also
what people's skills are in survival. There's propounds skills that people are bringing with
them every day, when they come to see you at the House of Commons, they already have
navigated to hard set of things to get there. And, and I love learning about that, because
it's that helps my mutuality, I need some of those skills, too. And so it's actually quite,
quite, I just keep thinking the word profound, but it's just quite inspiring, I guess, to be in
the presence of people who have a different worldview and a different life experience.
And we still can find common ground. And we still can work together. A company made is
another big idea in that model. And the notion of walking alongside of people knowing
full well that you can't, you can't know what they're really dealing with. But you can
support and you can encourage and you can appreciate the walk. And I think that that's
another profound concept in the model as a company, man, which I really think it belongs
in that model. And I think it's a skill that I hope all nurses what would you want nurses to
know most about practicing from this framework? I think maybe starting from a place of
bad judgment, and starting from a place of acceptance and, and just openness that
you're open to learning the stories you're open to hearing people wherever they're at, and
that you're open to knowing that the mutuality or like circumstance is, is a good place to
start.
K
Kaija Freborg 23:56
what were the typical health concerns you encountered when caring for participants
K
Katherine Baumgartner 24:02
I think it would vary quite a bit I think they were they were they were it was kind of a quite
a range that it could go from relatively simple needs in the sense I need some simple
hygiene supplies or I really do need some new socks. That can can sound simple but can
be quite essential. And that it can be met in there can be a smile exchanged, and that's a
lot right there. I think other times it's there's a need for much more storytelling and sharing
and sort of space to do that and feel safe and just kind of heard in nursing creating space
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for that is really quite beautiful. So some people have who visit there would have a need
for that space and time and others or it would vary depending you may see the same
person Five times and rather than the fourth time or fifth time, they actually do want to
talk to you. So you don't know what those other times before you help set the stage for
that comfort. You don't know that. But you might, you might have done it. And so so then
a different level of encounter might take place. We certainly had people come to the
outcomes who actually had a more emergent need, where they really did need for stayed
or they needed a referral, like right now for something else to take place. And, and I think
it was important that the nursing health Commons offers a way to help that happen to
that people feel safe to come there. And they're not going to be judged for whatever it is
they're worried about. And maybe we can accompany or even do some advocacy if
people need something in short order, which did not happen all that often. But it certainly
did happen. I think the one example that one story give you as a woman who came in and
told me she'd been raped, and I hadn't had that experience with helping someone in that
circumstance. And that day, I accompanied her to him because he, er and sat with her
through that whole experience of sexual assault. And I was grateful that she came to that
place because she had she was alone in the world. And so I'm really glad you came here.
K
Kaija Freborg 26:33
What were some of the strengths you saw in the people who visit?
K
Katherine Baumgartner 26:37
Oh, gosh, the list is super long. Well, I would say sort of a strength to keep going to be
really able to have a vision for themselves enough to say that I'm not going to give up, I'm
going to keep going, I'm going to seek out some help some resources, I'm going to have a
plan for myself, I'm going to reach out to somebody, it's a huge string through there. I'm
going to ask for help, I'm going to tell my story, I'm gonna risk telling my story. That's a
strength I think. I also saw a tremendous community where people would be very
encouraging to one another, and, and giving each other support, giving me support. And
those are those are strengths and how people can inspire. long lists of challenges, as well
as lots of things probably unknown. People still had energy and capacity to care about
somebody else and offer support or encouragement or a lot of times people give each
other good advice. Oh, I know exactly where you can do find this or that or whatever. And
people help each other. That's a huge thing. Networking rosani together. It was a lot of
that. And I think also some skills that just problem solving, taking taking really hard
situations and figuring out what to do about it. And I have to admire anybody who could
figure out some of these issues that you would hear about, I wouldn't have the slightest
idea of figuring that out. And people have a lot of ability. And a lot of wisdom Mater's, we
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call it in, in nursing, where you you learn from your experience, and then you, you apply it
again and you expand it and you keep deepening. There's a lot of meat as a result of the
challenges you have heard most regarding people's ability to access health care. Oh,
there's just a lot of, I think, I think one of the biggest ones is, is the fear of being judged.
And being trivialized, minimized, ignored, disrespected. Those are huge, where people are
don't feel safe coming or saying something or it's more than the money. That's the
obvious one. But I think even more than that, it's feeling disrespected, and and somehow
made fun of or somehow ignored or somehow made to feel as if their concerns or their
issues or even their personhood is, is somehow not okay, somehow it's not good enough or
somehow it's It's just not worthy of whoever they're talking to. It's not worthy of time. So
it's a very dehumanizing can be very dehumanizing experience. And that's what I've heard
is that people don't use some of those healthcare resources, because they've had those
really difficult experiences. And you're not going to put themselves in that again.
K
Kaija Freborg 30:24
What should nurses know when taking care of people who may be experiencing
homelessness? Or who are marginally housed? will
K
Katherine Baumgartner 30:34
probably that, you know, most people are two paychecks away from the same thing. So
it's not like it's them, and me and them and us. Actually, anybody can be homeless, for
couch chopping, or whatever the terms are. But I think knowing that this is a human
condition, and there's lots and lots of circumstances that put people in this kind of
vulnerable place. And I think understanding that you can't know. And if you're lucky,
someone will tell you more of their story. And try, as best you can to suspend judgment
about that is the first time that this is a human human time and a human condition and it
deserves your respect.
K
Kaija Freborg 31:18
Is there something we could improve upon at the health Commons?
K
Katherine Baumgartner 31:23
Well, I, I'm not sure exactly how the remodel is going. But I do think the space could be
better. Just in terms of expanding its sense of hospitality, not so much for the nursing
people who are there, but more for the people who come together as they need to meet
each other and support each other. I think there's a lot of potential for that. And part of
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my reason for saying it isn't when some years back, there was a women's group, and the
women would get together in I can't. I was always astounded at the kind of special
information they would share with each other, about life, and how you get along with
stuff. And with certain people or certain organizations or certain way you navigate things,
there was just this tremendous sense of safety in that space to share through that
information. I really liked that. And I thought, well, could that could that get different and
better? And could there be more of them? opportunity, not only for women, but certainly
for men too. I think people get too isolated. And some of that is fear in their head. Not
sure who to trust and all that. But I wonder if they help comments could also facilitator
advocate for greater spaces for people to to create more community, because I'm a big
believer that this membership of this community, and the more we can create that in a
way that's really positive and non judgmental, but a safe space for people to work out
things. I think that's that would be a great addition. And I don't know what the new space
is going to look like it's evolving. I know. But that's what I would hope for now.
K
Kaija Freborg 33:12
What do you think the health Commons should look like 20 years from now?
K
Katherine Baumgartner 33:18
I don't have the slightest idea. I can't even imagine right now, given our worrisome
political environment. I'd What I don't know is Will people care? Will the mark people who
are marginalized, even that population grow? Will people have a heart for better any
compassion for people who are on the edge of society? I can't even imagine right now. I'm
hopeful. I'm always hopeful. So Minnesota has a pretty long history of being
compassionate and caring about the human condition. So I'm hoping that there will be
something called the home comments, though I believe there will always be
marginalization of people. I think that's part of our human condition. I don't know, right? I
don't know the answer. But I don't see it as anything. And I want to submit it more of a
medical model clinic I don't see that. I do see it as is a place maybe for for learning and
practicing and supporting one another in a greater sense of well being. But I don't see it as
any kind of Western medical clinic thing. I don't see that at all. I like the idea of continuing
with a strong model of hospitality. I think that's really foundational to help.
K
Kaija Freborg 34:51
What would your advice be to future or current faculty in the nursing department?
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K
Katherine Baumgartner 34:57
Well, I will Wish 100% of the nursing faculty at Augsburg University spend time and now
have comments. Because the lessons there are so profound and the teachers themselves.
So I would, I would feel sad that any faculty would miss them. And they wouldn't take
advantage of not only looking at the model that's here to carry around with you, but
actually seeing it in action and being a part of living. I would want that for 100% of
faculty, and in the adjunct faculty. And then I think I think it helps put that commitment
deeper in everybody's soul in the nursing department, because it's, it's really a lived, it's a
lift, commitment. And I think it helps it'll, it'll seep into more and more of our, our
curriculum. And in the way that we support nurses to be really, citizen nurses as people,
agents of social change, I think nurses need to know more about marginalized
populations, and there's, they're all over the place, but sometimes it's easy to walk right
by. So
K
Kaija Freborg 36:15
one question I have is related to the 100 and 50th. anniversary coming up in 2019. There's
a lot of questions around how we're living out our mission. And also, who are we? And
what should we be thinking about changing or holding on to as we move forward? as
being? You know, I guess the term I would use this authentically Augsburg, like, what
should what would be your call for action to all of us to hold on to in these times of
change, as well as celebration? So and I guess, so what would kind of your reaction be to
how nursing is uplifting the model? Or the mission of the college? And what would be your
call for us to hold on to related to who we are our identity?
K
Katherine Baumgartner 37:05
Well, I'm very proud that Augsburg has always had a deep commitment to the urban
setting, the immigrant journey and the in the notion of living out set of principles and faith
traditions, I think those are really strong. I hope they always lasted Augsburg. Augsburg,
also very committed to social justice. What does that mean? And so how does that get
lived out in our curriculum and inner social action initiatives in the campus as well as
individual departments? I think our nursing departments had some some engagement in
that in terms of the citizen nurse idea. I think it's a very strong idea. And I think we haven't
gone very far with it. But I think it could be a very strong role model for the rest of the
college to say, what does it mean to be a citizen? Teacher? And what does it mean to be a
citizen historian? And and really understand that, not only are we do we have the privilege
of lots of education, which gives you different opportunities in real, but it also, we really
have tremendous obligations to really support them. just adjust world. And so what does
that mean? So what does it mean for nerves? What does it mean for anybody who's going
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to school, and I think the college can get even more engaged in in me, I think we've done a
lot of great things. But I think even more engaged, because our political environment is
really asking is to be unengaged, and be really uninformed, and not not at all pushing for
some of the social justice issues that we care about. So that means we have to respond to
we have to be more organized, and we have to be more systematic. And we really have to
have voices heard by departments by the college. I know there was a English professor
here that's going to be deported. I think that's outrageous. And I know there's been
certainly response from Augsburg college, but lies and 1000s of students upset about that
versus several 100. So I'm just curious about how that's going to happen. And I feel like
that's an important calling. This College has got a great history of being very much
engaged in in many issues that are foundational to this country. And I think it can be just
keep getting stronger and stronger. But we have to apply these these smart ideas we
have we have good community organizing skills, we have a center for democracy, and
change and so what what does it mean? Per department, and how do we really engage
those ideas in a way that's absolutely visible in, in, in our communities and visible in the
whole state.
K
Kaija Freborg 40:24
Thank you for your time. And this was beautiful. It was important. It uplifted so many
things that not only. I was hoping you would but I learned so much.
K
Katherine Baumgartner 40:37
So thank you my privilege. Appreciate it the conversation.
Kathleen Clark 40:49
So we're back we're going to have a second little addition here to Katherine
Baumgartner's oral history. One thing that we kind of wanted to highlight was a couple
things that Katherine wanted to elaborate a little bit more on. So, Katherine, I think you
wanted to add a little bit more about the model of practice at the health commons. So
could you share with us what was on your mind.
K
Katherine Baumgartner 41:16
So the care model that emerged in the health commons was several years ago, and it was
really, as I had already said, was really built from the brilliant work of Ruth and his bed
was support from Linda Holt. And but the four components of it that are so really
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amazing have to do with the acknowledging the need of people who come to the
outcomes for support. attending to the struggle, affirming strengths and accompaniment
and those large components of the care model were really lived out every single day that
we and I worked there, in just a couple comments about that acknowledging the need,
people come there, because something is drawing them there. And sometimes it's very
obvious and clear, and sometimes it's not at all clear, and people still come in. So we just
know there's something that people are, are wanting in that space, and in those
relationships, and so they come so we acknowledge that something is they're attending to
the struggle, everyone who comes in, in that circumstances dealing with a wide variety of
challenges, most of which we don't know. But at least they come in many times, who will
begin to be open to share something of what the journey is that they're on. And then
affirming strengths, or there's just tremendous strengths that people bring. And sometimes
they're not as aware of those on themselves, or they haven't been very acknowledged in
other settings. And so we have a great opportunity in that setting to have comments that
people carry tremendous strength with them, and ability to navigate. And, and we really
are very aware of that and give people a lot of information for that. And then the third
one is the accompaniment. Sometimes people do need to be have some luck with them as
you're making decisions or choices or the next step, whatever it is that they are needing to
do. And having someone affirm that and and even just talk it through them is enormous.
That's great. Just highlight a few of those things from the help.
Kathleen Clark 43:23
Yeah. And and one question I have is, sometimes students have a hard time knowing what
this looks like, when we're in relationship. So could you give an example of any of the
stages a story that would uplift any of it?
Kathleen Clark 43:38
Um, I think just think a second Oh, there was a gentleman that came one time, who had
just that Dave and released from the hospital for an inpatient psychiatric care, time and
care. And he was very, he was upset, he was upset that his life has really gotten
complicated and messy and hard to manage. And so there was just kind of attending to
the fact that he had a lot of anxiety and stress was kind of uncertain where, where that
day was going to take him and what was happening. And I, of course, did not know that
either. But I created just space to talk about that. And he talked a lot and in my job was to
just be present and not judging and not knowing not certainly any advice, but just kind of
giving him space. So that was attending, acknowledging your need and then attending to
the struggle as he's trying to figure out what what literally what was he going to do that
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day and then the next day and the next day. As time passed, and he talked more and
more began to learn more about his life and heard that he actually has a daughter. So he
gets all these pictures of his daughter how much he loves her. And so that that was a great
opportunity for me to attend to his his ability and his strength. put lots of time thought
about that. And that meant a lot to him. And me share that story. And we did that we
talked a lot about her. And when he left, he said, You know, it just felt like I've been talking
to my aunt, and someone really personal. And he said, You know, I'm really proud of my
daughter. And so that's how we ended that time together. And I had no idea where any of
that was gonna go. But I do do on her when he left, he felt strong. I could tell by the way,
he hugged me, and I could tell by the way he walked out of the room. So that was one
example. And it works, he was really quite beautiful.
Kathleen Clark 45:41
That is beautiful.
Kathleen Clark 45:45
So can you then elaborate a little bit more on the care we provide that you alluded to?
K
Katherine Baumgartner 45:52
The next thing I'd like to talk about is something that Care, we provided the health
commons, which I want to just add one really, super important one is foot care. And
because a lot of the people who come here, are under feet, literally many hours of the day
and have little or no opportunities in place to choose your shoes, or wash your socks. And
so we're very aware that caring for feet is is a very powerful way to connect with
individuals and support their struggle, as well as just provide some literal human
connection. So we literally take off shoes and socks, and wash people's feet and attend to
sores or her nail care as a very literal way of touching and connecting with another
human being in a way that offers support and human kindness and human connection.
And I think it has its own grace in just in that. And then of course, there's also the
meaningful work of caring for feet, because feet, carry people into the world. And it's very
important that that care happens as frequently as possible. So people can feel that at
least that part of their body is well attended to, and they can feel some, some confidence
that those feet are going to take them into the next, the next part of their journey,
whatever that is. So we do that every time. Every time I've worked there, I've done foot
care. And, and then of course, the space doing footcare creates a lot of opportunity for
people to say more about what's happening for them and what their day was like are
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going to be or things you're worried about. And so it becomes a really very personal kind
of intimate way of connecting with someone. And and I think there's a lot of important
conversations. And the other thing that's kind of unique about footcare is, in the
circumstance that we had it in health comments, there were like a circle of chairs. And so
there would be many people getting put here at the same time. And again, there's this
community that emerges, where people hear one another situations and stories, and they
offer each other an idea or a support or a job or something kind of kind of helps everyone
feel more connected to one another. That was really very powerful.
Kathleen Clark 48:15
Could you then tell me about some of the things you wanted to add about some of the
early years and courses that you've taught at Augsburg University. Early years,
K
Katherine Baumgartner 48:24
I worked as the director of the BSN program in Minneapolis. And one of the things I
wanted to add about that is that I think it was very much of a growth time for the for the
nursing department, Augsburg as well. And there were not enough faculty. And so we all
had to learn how to help each other do many, many things. And there was a, a very deep
vocational calling for all of us to be there. But also, I think there was a very strong culture
in that department where there was a deep sense of learning. And we were all learning
and supporting each other in our learning. And in a very non judgmental culture, which
people were given the space to try new things and, and some stuff worked in the
classroom and some didn't. And so we were constantly talking to each other and learning
and trying trying new ideas. And that very positive learning environment was very
wonderful to work in very strong for me as a brand new teacher to feel like I could do this,
and I can learn this and I will get support, and I will have resources to help me be the best
teacher I can be. And so I am very grateful for that. And it was early in my years there and
I think it's still very much sustained. And then the last thing I want to just add, I have a
question about what courses I've taught over these 12 years that I was at Oxford, and we
had quite a range of classes that were at had the opportunity to teach. Because I was the
BSN director, I really took six of the BSN courses, the translations class, the
communication class, family nursing class, the nursing theory class and the community
health classes. And that was all at the BSN level, that was a lot of courses to learn and to
help create and expand and teach a very, very fun to do that. And I learned a lot working
in those different courses as well as a lot from the students and then the particular
resources that we would engage in those classes as well. Then I went on and taught in the
master's program in the transcripts for nursing courses, as well as the politics and
healthcare courses were very delightful courses. I taught this for many, many years. And
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then as we ended up, adding a DNP, a Doctor of Nursing Practice program, I think it was
in 2008 that came in. I taught eventually after I got my doctorate and I eventually taught
in 800 class, which was the practice was an evidence class 802 making them at the table
and 803 the trans cultural cosmology. So I have been very blessed to have such a wide
range of opportunities to to learn a variety of classes with a variety of resources and texts
with us. And so I My life has been deeply enriched by having the opportunity.
Kathleen Clark 51:30
Well, thank you so much for those additions. Katherine, they were very insightful and this
oral history has been just very enriching and will tell stories for years to come. So I
appreciate your time.
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