Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:00
Hi, I'm Chyanne Phravoraxay. I'm the oral historian for this oral history project.
I'm here with Fatha Ahmed, can you state your full name and your age?
Fatha Ahmed 0:12
Well, hello, my name is Fatha Ahmed and I'm nineteen years old.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:16
So, um,... Show more
Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:00
Hi, I'm Chyanne Phravoraxay. I'm the oral historian for this oral history project.
I'm here with Fatha Ahmed, can you state your full name and your age?
Fatha Ahmed 0:12
Well, hello, my name is Fatha Ahmed and I'm nineteen years old.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:16
So, um, where were you born and raised?
Fatha Ahmed 0:20
So I was born here in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I was raised in St. Paul and mixture with
Roseville and Falcon Heights.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:28
Okay. And was that the same with your family like your parents and siblings or?
Fatha Ahmed 0:33
All my siblings were born here, I'm the oldest out of nine. So and my parents were born in
Somalia. So my dad was born in a city called us Lascaanod. And my mom was born in a city
called Jowher.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:47
Okay. And have they told you their story of immigrating here?
Fatha Ahmed 0:55
They briefly told me when I was, a couple years ago, actually, they both fled the civil war back in
1996 or 97. So my mom came 1998 and my dad came- no my mom came in 1999 and my dad
came a year before that. So 1988. And I was born 2000
Chyanne Phravoraxay 1:16
And did they meet here?
Fatha Ahmed 1:18
They met here, yes. They met through mutual friends.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 1:22
And have you ever gone to Somalia?
Fatha Ahmed 1:25
No, I was going to go last summer, but instead I went to Kenya.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 1:29
Okay, so what brought you to Kenya?
Fatha Ahmed 1:31
My mom wanted to move there with my 5 younger siblings. So she wanted to like, have a better
life over there like she did with my younger siblings.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 1:42
So then do they live there now?
Fatha Ahmed 1:43
They do. Yes.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 1:45
How long have they lived there?
Fatha Ahmed 1:47
It's been like six months now.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 1:50
So how was your experience there?
Fatha Ahmed 1:52
It was different. The culture there is pretty different. But overall it was like a nice experience to
see a whole different side of the world.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 2:04
So how was it different?
Fatha Ahmed 2:07
I'll just say like, culturally, they were- I mean, there was different like things like, what was it?
How they like view things differently. Like the president and like how like the laws over there,
just different than here.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 2:26
Can you give more details?
Fatha Ahmed 2:29
I mean, the laws over there really- like when I went there, like, you don't have to drive with the
license, which was interesting. Actually. You don't- there's no drinking age. There's no, like, stuff
like that.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 2:45
Wow. Okay.
Fatha Ahmed 2:46
I know. Yeah. It was really, I mean, it was interesting, but wow.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 2:50
So do a lot of Somalis live in Kenya?
Fatha Ahmed 2:53
There was only- Well, it's mostly Christians. Not Somalis, but there's like fairly good amount
because Kenya is a Christian country.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:03
Oh, yeah.
Fatha Ahmed 3:04
But there's mostly Yeah, there's mostly Christians are like, not that much Somalis from what I
see.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:10
Okay. Are you fluent in Swahili?
Fatha Ahmed 3:15
No. I literally know, like a couple words and that's it.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:18
Oh, okay.
Fatha Ahmed 3:19
I know Somali fluently but not Swahili.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:22
Oh, okay.
Fatha Ahmed 3:23
Yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:23
So then did you speak Somali there then? Everyone knew Somali or?
Fatha Ahmed 3:28
Um, they knew English
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:30
Oh, okay. So you just spoke English?
Fatha Ahmed 3:31
Yeah, because if it was just Swahili then it would be complicated. But yeah, they mostly speak
English and Swahili over there.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:39
Okay. And then how did you learn a little bit of Swahili then?
Fatha Ahmed 3:43
From like meeting different people. Like I know like words. I understand it a little bit. But like
speaking it is just hard.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:52
So do you think there's like a drastic change or like difference between Swahili and Somali?
Fatha Ahmed 3:57
I mean there's- Well yeah, actually. Yeah, there is a lot different, because there's like different
meanings to like different stuff and they have different like words that mean the same thing as
Somali, but it doesn't totally mean it.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 4:10
Okay. And um, so you were in Kenya during Eid right?
Fatha Ahmed 4:16
I was. Eid was in the summer so to like after Ramadan, there's an eid and then a month and a
half later there's an Eid so yeah. I celebrated to Eids in Kenya which was, I would say, like that
was like the most fun I like experienced, because they do more cultural stuff in Kenya than in
America, because in America you just go pray and like just go to like, fun stuff. But there like
you like, there's like food, there's dances, there's more like more stuff.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 4:48
Okay, so going back to what you said about your family. Do you think, do you see you and your
dad and the rest of your siblings possibly moving to Kenya?
Fatha Ahmed 4:57
My dad wants to move back home, but for me like it wasn't for me, but I would totally love to
visit. I don't know if it's just because I was born here, that's why it's different? But I don't want to
go over there. Just a vacation.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 5:13
Yeah? Moving on to your early education, so growing up in Minneapolis and like St. Paul area,
Twin Cities, do you feel like you were surrounded by Somali Muslims? Like did you always feel
comfortable?
Fatha Ahmed 5:29
So I went to a public school, kindergarten through senior year of high school. From when I
started kindergarten, there was literally no, like, people that looked like me. It was all like, white,
which was- it wasn't that bad at first, but when I got to like first second grade, like I started
getting questions about the hijab then, it's like it's been like, an ongoing thing like every year.
Like "why do I wear it?"
Chyanne Phravoraxay 5:56
Oh, really?
Fatha Ahmed 5:56
Yeah, I mean, at first they didn't know. They're like- we were all young so they didn't have any
knowledge of like, what the hijab is and why i wear it. But after the years, like starting middle
school, high school, there was more people that like knew why I wore it.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 6:15
Interesting. Okay, so then, um so you said that you were probably the only like, Somali there?
Fatha Ahmed 6:23
Yeah, just me and my one friend. That's it.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 6:25
Oh, okay. So then were there any like Muslims then? At your school either?
Fatha Ahmed 6:28
No, there wasn't. No, I mean there was black African Americans, but not like Somali Americans
or Muslim Americans.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 6:37
So do you remember when you first started wearing your hijab?
Fatha Ahmed 6:40
From the moment I started? Well, it was when I was five or six. Like when I started school.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 6:47
Oh, okay. Is that like, do you have sisters?
Fatha Ahmed 6:51
I have, yeah, three other sisters.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 6:52
Okay, so was that the case for them too? Like that age?
Fatha Ahmed 6:55
Yep. When we started school. Every time we go out, we would just wear the hijab. Like from
what I remember like when I started kindergarten, that's when I started wearing a hijab.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 7:02
Okay, so during like holidays, would you- How would that work? Did your school like
accommodate to that or it didn't follow it?
Fatha Ahmed 7:13
No, they wouldn't allow us to. At first when I was in elementary school they didn't allow us to get
days off, because it wasn't technically a holiday in like the calendar. So we just- I mean my dad
would like talk to the principal every year to like let them know like these specific like kids are
not gonna be able to come on this day, because they'll be celebrating like their holiday. Just like
how the others celebrate Christmas so there's days off, but for when it's Eid like we didn't have
any days off and like we had to like miss class, miss like assignments and everything. We were
behind. So that was pretty difficult for my parents too.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 7:57
So then was that like throughout all your education?
Fatha Ahmed 8:01
Yes. Kindergarten through senior year.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 8:05
When did you feel like there were more Somalis or people of color?
Fatha Ahmed 8:10
Probably middle school. Because I don't know like there was- I started seeing more and more
Somalis in middle school. I thought I wouldn't, because it's still a public school but I did and
senior year was just still a lot of Somalis too.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 8:28
Did you like befriend the Somalis or what was your friend dynamic like?
Fatha Ahmed 8:34
It was like a mixture. Like at first I was friends with mostly whites. And I started going off to like,
Mexican and then Somalis. Yeah, that's like, the culture that I would like to associate with.
Because there was no one else to actually talk to. When I got to like senior in middle school
year, that's when I started talking to more Somalis like people look like me.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 8:58
Okay. And you did mention that, like, people would ask you a bunch of questions just because
they didn't know but have you ever experienced any like, intentionally negative interactions?
Like people saying rude things or?
Fatha Ahmed 9:14
So when I was in fifth grade this one boy asked, he asked what I had in my head. And I told him
like the Hijab like he asked why I wore it. I explained it to him and then he told me, I don't know
why he's like, he told me to like take my towel off
Chyanne Phravoraxay 9:30
Really?
Fatha Ahmed 9:30
Yeah. He said, yeah he said a towel. Or like a tablecloth? I don't know. But it was, yeah. So he
told me take that off and then at first I thought it was just funny. But I started to realize like that
like hurt, so I didn't say anything. But I told my mom and she said, like, like "going to school, it's
going to be like different, difficult for you to like, adjust to wearing the hijab".
Chyanne Phravoraxay 9:54
And what does the hijab mean to you?
Fatha Ahmed 9:57
It means- to me it means to be modest and like, caring about like my religion and like, why I'm
here.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 10:04
So you think that you would wear it for probably the rest of your life then?
Fatha Ahmed 10:08
Yes, for sure.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 10:09
Okay, interesting. And so moving into religious upbringing. Do you think, in your opinion, do you
think your family's more traditional or loose with Islam? Or, like compared toFatha Ahmed 10:22
What do you mean "loose with"?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 10:23
Loose as in, they're not as traditional or they don't follow as much.
Fatha Ahmed 10:28
Oh, yea. I would say my parents are traditional, they're really religious.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 10:31
Oh, okay.
Fatha Ahmed 10:32
I would say they're traditional
Chyanne Phravoraxay 10:34
So in what way, like compared to other people that you've seen?
Fatha Ahmed 10:39
Like culturally speaking?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 10:42
Yeah, culturally too. Or like, culturally or religiously? I don't know, like, just the practices that
they- or practices and beliefs that they have, compared to other people who are more loose, like
have you noticed a difference or what makes you think that they're more traditional?
Fatha Ahmed 10:59
I would say just like celebrating cultures maybe like. I mean not cultures, but like something like
holidays like Ramadan. I would say like, because Ramadan is like the holy fast of the- We fast
for a month, so I would say that we do more things in that month and most other cultures to do.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 11:21
Okay. Interesting. So um, what do you mean by that like? Like are you more stricter on fasting?
Fatha Ahmed 11:28
Well yeah I mean at first when I started- I started fasting was like nine and then before that my
parents would not care. Like I didn't have to fast. But I started when I was nine years old like
we've had every day until like, you know when you get older like when you're not able to fast.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 11:51
So do you pray often?
Fatha Ahmed 11:53
Yes, we pray- I pray often, yes. We pray five times a day like one in the morning before sunrise
or during sunrise. And then there's one in the evening, one in that afternoon, one before- during
sundown, and then one later, later that night. So like different times of the day.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 12:17
Do you tend to follow with that five different times?
Fatha Ahmed 12:20
Yes. It's hard when you're at school, because it's like, you're in class when it's time to pray, but
like, if you're like, late, you have to do it before the next prayer. So, but not too late. But like
before next prayer you're okay.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 12:37
What do you do if you're on campus then? Do you go to like the areas we have?
Fatha Ahmed 12:43
Yes, in Hagfors there's a prayer room. So you just go in there, it's open to everyone. You just go
in there and pray and then on Fridays, there's weekly Friday prayer. So like, everyone goes and
like just reads like, specific like passages from the Quran or from the Hadith and then you just
pray and then yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 13:07
So how long is like the Friday prayer?
Fatha Ahmed 13:10
It usually lasts about 20 minutes. They have speakers sometimes. So yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 13:17
Is it during chapel hour? Or when do they have it?
Fatha Ahmed 13:19
Usually- It changed because of daylight savings. So it's usually around like 12:10 or 12:15
around there.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 13:30
Okay, how many people are usually there?
Fatha Ahmed 13:34
Um. I mean I would say like a good amount like maybe like 20 people. I mean, there's people
that like don't want to miss class, because I think it's between- that's during a class and like
almost after a class too, but it's pretty difficult for some people to get a class, because the
professor doesn't like want you to miss anything big or anything. But if you have time, if you can,
if you're able to, like it's encouraged to go to Friday prayer.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 14:01
So then have you always gone there like since- because you're a second year? Right?
Fatha Ahmed 14:05
Yeah, I am.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 14:06
So then, have you always gotten there since freshman year too? or when did you start going?
Fatha Ahmed 14:12
I started going maybe it's this year? The school year. Yes, I usually go, yeah, during my- one of
my classes I leave early and sometimes I don't, but sometimes, like if I have an exam, I usually
don't. But when I do, I usually go when I have time to go.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 14:30
So how does it make you feel or what drives you to go there?
Fatha Ahmed 14:34
Just like that God is watching me like, I'm doing this just for him.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 14:41
So, um, are you involved in anything in the Somali Muslim community or like on campus?
Fatha Ahmed 14:49
I have been involved with a couple of student organizations. MSA, which is Muslim Student
Association, and then PASU which has Pan African Student Union.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 15:01
Um, can you tell us your experiences and those two organizations?
Fatha Ahmed 15:06
For MSA, it's actually pretty nice this year, because they have weekly halaqas, which is like
weekly, like meetings like about different topics. Like I think couple weeks ago there was one
about marriage in Islam. So we talked about like, like, when is it appropriate to get married and
a strict like, like during school? Because some college students they get married, some college
Muslim students get married around this time. So like, just about that, like marriage and like, if
you're ready or not.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 15:40
Interesting.
Fatha Ahmed 15:40
And then for PASU, I haven't been involved with it this much this year, but I would say that it's
going okay, but I feel like I'm more connected with MSA than I am with PASU.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 15:57
And why do you think so? Is it just like the religion involved? Is that why?
Fatha Ahmed 16:01
I would say. Yeah, because PASU was mostly like for like black African Americans, which I am
but I don't feel like I'm connected to it, in some way. But I am with MSA.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 16:13
Interesting. Do you think or what is your favorite part about being a part of the Somali
community?
Fatha Ahmed 16:21
My favorite part? Of being a part of being in the Somali community. Um, well, just getting to, i
don't know, getting to meet like new people probably. To like different like, different like
religions, like at the Brian Coyle down- down Sixth Street right here. There's like many different
cultures that come in to like this community center. And I used to volunteer across the street.
The Cedar Riverside Learning Center, I think something like that. So what I would do is help
older people, who don't know- that in go to school when they're young to like learn English and
learn like
math and science and stuff.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 17:10
So you were like a tutor or?
Fatha Ahmed 17:12
Yes, I was. And learn- Oh yeah, they were learning the computer too. They have never seen a
computer before. So they're adjusting to that
Chyanne Phravoraxay 17:20
That's cool! Yeah.
Fatha Ahmed 17:21
'Cause they sacrificed their lives for their kids so theyChyanne Phravoraxay 17:25
So then these were mostly immigrants then?
Fatha Ahmed 17:28
Yes, there are immigrants. All Somali immigrant from what I see.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 17:33
And so you stated the- your favorite thing about being a part of the Somali community? Is there
anything you'd like to change or like some issues that you feel should be addressed within the
community?
Fatha Ahmed 17:48
Within the Somali community or?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 17:49
Yeah, Somali.
Fatha Ahmed 17:51
Um, I mean, there was a lot of like, there are a lot of incidents about like guns in the Somali
community. About how all, like Somali men are like getting killed. And I feel like we should be
like more open minded with learning about like, what that can do to someone, especially the
Somali moms who like felt that they didn't like do a good job as a mother. So I would say like
being more open minded with that.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 18:27
Interesting. So are you so you're talking about like shootings in Minneapolis or?
Fatha Ahmed 18:32
Yes, shootings in Minneapolis.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 18:35
Who do you think you look up to in like- as a Muslim woman?
Fatha Ahmed 18:41
As a Muslim,? I will look up, I would say my mother and my grandmother. They're like the two
most influence in my life, because my mother sacrificed her education for her kids. Same with
my grandmother was her mom. But for my mom, she didn't- she only got her high school
diploma and then she came here and she wanted to go back to school, but then she had me. So
i'm carrying on that legacy.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 19:07
So do you think you feel any pressure as the oldest woman in your family like out of your
siblings?
Fatha Ahmed 19:12
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 19:13
Yeah?
Fatha Ahmed 19:13
My mom's always on me.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 19:14
Oh, really?
Fatha Ahmed 19:15
Yes. Like, as a first generation student. Like she always told everyone like, I go to school here,
do that. She's like, yeah, I mean, she wants me to do good, but yeah. Especially my, yeah, I
would say my mom especially like, she wants me to like, be focused on school and like, not
work.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 19:37
Oh, really? She doesn't want you to work.
Fatha Ahmed 19:38
No.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 19:39
And do you work?
Fatha Ahmed 19:40
I do work. Of course I work. I can't be broke. But yeah, she just wants me to focus on like, like
my career like what I'm going for.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 19:51
And do you feel like you have pressure to take care of like your younger siblings as the oldest
too?
Fatha Ahmed 19:57
Um y eah, when did senior year, when she would work and my dad would work too. It was a
struggle like balancing school, work, and then them too. So but it was- I, we got through it. My
mom was- she was there for me.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 20:13
So who were you looking after? Like, can you state your siblings? Like ages and names
maybe?
Fatha Ahmed 20:20
Like right now? Their age and their name?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 20:22
Oh, yeah. Just like, yeah.
Fatha Ahmed 20:24
Ok, so I'm 19, I'm the oldest. Then my sister is 17. Then I have a brother who's 16 and then
another brother, that's 15. And then I have another brother who's 13? I don't know, 13, maybe?
And then I have a sister who's 10 and another sister, that's seven. Yes, seven and then I have
two younger brothers that are twins and they just turned four.
Yeah, big family.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 20:51
Yes! So can you state which ones are currently in Kenya with your mom?
Fatha Ahmed 20:56
So the 13 year old and rest. The younger ones. They're 13, 10, 7, and the twins are with my
mom. So five of them are with my mom and then the four, the older ones, are here with my dad.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 21:08
Oh, okay. And so do you live with your dad at the moment?
Fatha Ahmed 21:11
Yep.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 21:12
And have you always lived with him?
Fatha Ahmed 21:15
Yep, both my parents. Yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 21:17
Is it in Minneapolis or St. Paul or?
Fatha Ahmed 21:19
St. Paul, yeah. I moved from, where did I move from? Falcon Heights. Because it was a three
bedroom apartment and my family kept growing every year. So I was like "it's tiem to get a
house".
Chyanne Phravoraxay 21:33
So moving on to like young adulthood or I guess right now, um, so can you state why you chose
Augsburg?
Fatha Ahmed 21:42
Why I chose Augsburg. I chose Augsburg for many reasons. For one, it was close to home,
because my dad was not letting me go out of state. The second reason was, it's a small school,
which means like smaller class sizes, which is like beneficial me, because if I went to the U, that
would be like 600 students in one class and I wouldn't have like that interaction with the
professor like I do with the ones here. And then I would say, like, diversity. There's a lot of
diversity here on campus, which is actually pretty nice because there's more involvement. And
then, yeah, financial aid.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 22:24
So when you were applying like in your senior year, did you already know this was your top
choice?
Fatha Ahmed 22:31
My- this was actually my third choice. Yes, so my first choice was the U of M. And then it was
St. Kate's, and then Augsburg. For the U of M, I don't know like I just wanted to go to school
because you know, everyone was going to that school. So I was like, you know, what is my
number one choice. But I didn't like, think like, what like, like, what aspects of what the U of M
has. Like the class sizes, like, getting to there, I would say. But- and then St. Kate's, I was going
to go there for my previous major, which was nursing. But then I realized, like, that's not what I
want to do anymore. And I just went to Augsburg, because it had all the components that I
wanted.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 23:15
So then did you have a major in mind coming in your first year?
Fatha Ahmed 23:20
Yes. When I- well before, well senior year, I was like, throughout high school, actually, I wanted
to be a nursing major. Like it was always nursing, nursing, nursing, nursing. When I got to
Augsburg, I was like, you know, I'm gonna do biology. And then I realized, I didn't want to do
that either. So I went from biology to business to then social work, 'cause I always liked helping
people. So I was like, nursing, doctor? Like, that'll be like, perfect. But then I'm like, that's not
what I wanted to do when I came to college. So I just decided to do social work, because that's
the same thing like helping people. So yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 23:57
And so have you you've taken a few courses that go towards social work?
Fatha Ahmed 24:01
I did, yes.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 24:03
Yeah. And how do you feel about the profession? What makes you want to stay in?
Fatha Ahmed 24:09
I actually like it. It's actually pretty like flexible. I want to get into foster care and CPS especially.
So I hope to take classes that helped me deal with that in the future.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 24:22
And what makes you lean towards foster care and CPS?
Fatha Ahmed 24:27
Well, I like kids, to start with, and then just helping people. So helping kids will be like, like a
dream.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 24:37
Interesting. Are you involved in any like programs? Because I know I did it- I did ask you if
you're involved in any, like specific Muslim stuff. Are you involved in anything else?
Fatha Ahmed 24:51
Yeah, so I'm involved in TRIO Upward Bound. I'm in that. I was in high school. It was called
Upward Bound, yeah. All three, all four years of high school I was it and then I realized that
Augsburg had a TRIO program. TRIO has a Success Program here. So I applied for that. And
then I got in and then, so I meet with my academic advisor every- once a month. So we just
talked about like, how classes are going like financial aid, scholarship opportunities and like
workshops.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 25:24
Interesting. So do you being in TRIO- Do you ever like, Do they ever have events where you get
to, like interact with other TRIO students or no?
Fatha Ahmed 25:34
Yes, we do. We do like workshops. So yeah, we see- We do like multiple things like we do
LinkedIn, like setting up your LinkedIn account, like this internship workshop, and like other
ones to like FAFSA workshop, so if you need to get your FAFSA done, they help you.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 25:55
Interesting and anything else on campus? That you are either involved in or used to do?
Fatha Ahmed 26:03
I was in- I was a treasurer for Women for Political Change last semester. I would say- it was just
for a couple months. But I would say that was one of the groups I like the most, because I don't
know, I like it was advocating for women. And like, yeah, I mean, it was a good experience while
lasted but yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 26:26
Is it not up anymore?
Fatha Ahmed 26:27
It's not. No, because most of the board members are studying abroad.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 26:31
Oh, okay.
Fatha Ahmed 26:32
So we decided to like take a break for a while. Maybe started it up next semester again, but I
don't know quite yet.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 26:39
Okay. And then so you do think you would be on the board again, like it would just continue on,
if it were to start off?
Fatha Ahmed 26:45
Yeah, probably. Most likely.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 26:47
So you did mention that you work. So where do you work?
Fatha Ahmed 26:51
So I currently have two jobs right now. I've been working at a retail job, JCPenney, for about
three years now. And then I work here on campus at University Events and I started that last
semester too.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 27:05
So what do you do for your on campus job the University Events?
Fatha Ahmed 27:10
So University Events is like a office that like coordinates like events that happen on campus. So
like if you have an event on campus, you go through them and like they help you like set up and
like help you schedule like stuff you need, like catering and everything. And if you need a room
for a meeting, they will like schedule them for you.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 27:31
Oh, okay, so then is it like a lot of computer work then?
Fatha Ahmed 27:35
I mostly do like emails like I schedule people's rooms and like, if I do have time I schedule like
events like any event, that happens on campus, that's all University Events.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 27:46
Okay. So what are your goals for the future?
Fatha Ahmed 27:51
My goals for the future are to get my bachelor's in social work. Maybe masters? But I don't know
yet, but I hope to work with child- CPS and foster care kids and like help them.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 28:09
And do you think you'll stay in the Twin Cities after you graduate?
Fatha Ahmed 28:13
Yes, probably 'cause I might get homesick.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 28:18
So you did mention that you're raised more traditional, do you think you would pass that on to
your kids too? Or do you think it will be more loose?
Fatha Ahmed 28:27
I would say more traditional, because that's what my mom would want. To set a good example,
like she did with me.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 28:36
Are your parents more traditional, like do you think that they think of interracial relationships? Or
do you think of interracial relationships? Or interreligious too.
Fatha Ahmed 28:48
Yeah. My parents are not for that actually. I don't know I might be. If the person is like, like, has
a stable job. Or if he's actually worth it. But, um, but yeah, we just like get to know them instead
of like making assumptions. Like "Oh they're not Somali because this or that".
Chyanne Phravoraxay 29:14
Okay.
Fatha Ahmed 29:15
But I'll be more open to it rather than my parents.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 29:18
Do you think there would be like difficulties within your- like if they were maybe like a Christian?
Do you think it would be difficult to navigate that relationship?
Fatha Ahmed 29:29
If I was with a Christian?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 29:30
Yeah, if you were with a Christian.
Fatha Ahmed 29:32
Yeah, that would be like a no go.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 29:34
For sure?
Fatha Ahmed 29:36
Yeah, it has to be a Muslim Somali person. It can't even be just be like Muslim.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 29:43
Oh, are you talking about your parents or yourself?
Fatha Ahmed 29:45
This is my parents view.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 29:46
Okay.
Fatha Ahmed 29:47
I can't date or marry someone that's not Somali or Muslim.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 29:52
Oh, okay.
Fatha Ahmed 29:54
Somali- Well yeah. I can date someone that's Somali. I mean, get married to someone that's
Somali. But if it's a Muslim, like they have different- well we all have the same views but like,
they still don't want that.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 30:06
Interesting. Okay. I guess we can touch on like the- how you celebrate Eid here. Do you?
Fatha Ahmed 30:15
Oh, yeah. So it's- how I said it was different in Kenya, in America we usually just like go pray
and like like go to like Mall of America or something like that, like for the kids. It's like good for
the kids, but like older people like we usually just like go pray and then just go home and like
clean around the house,9 because it's like a day off, so you have nothing really to do. But in
Kenya, no one stays home. Everyone's outside or like at a party or something, which was
actually pretty nice, because we're not allowed to stay at our house. So we usually- in Kenya
when I went, first Eid, we went to the biggest- the mall, that was biggest mall in, I think the East.
Yeah, biggest mall on the East side of Africa. So and then, for the next Eid, we just went to- I
stayed home, but my siblings went on like these amusement parks and stuff. And they wereand they actually said that they liked Eif better there, than in America.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 31:24
So when you went to Kenya did all your siblings and your dad come to? With you, like to visit
your mom?
Fatha Ahmed 31:30
No. So May of this year my mom, my five younger siblings, and I went to Kenya. And then I
came back by myself in the end of August. Before school started. The end of August. But my
dad stayed here the whole time with my three other siblings. So only five of the younger ones,
my mom, and me went. I just went for the summer, to like help for- like with the kids like going.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 31:56
Oh, okay. And then they stayed back then?
Fatha Ahmed 31:58
They stayed back. She has a house over there, so.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 32:00
Ok, interesting.
Fatha Ahmed 32:01
Yes.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 32:03
So then what does she do there? Like did it relate to her job in America?
Fatha Ahmed 32:10
No, she just wanted to move there. Like she's- it's stress-free over there, so she doesn't have to
worry about anything. There's someone that like- she has someone that cooks for her and
cleans for her. So she's actually a chilling. She likes it. She doesn't want to come back, but she
might come back to work again butChyanne Phravoraxay 32:29
Oh, so she doesn't work there?
Fatha Ahmed 32:30
Now she doesn't.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 32:31
Oh, wow. Interesting.
Fatha Ahmed 32:33
Yeah, so my siblings both- they all go to school there now. And then, yeah. They're actually
living life.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 32:42
Nice. Okay. So then when do you think your dad would move there?
Fatha Ahmed 32:48
Maybe when I graduate. He might move there becauseChyanne Phravoraxay 32:50
Oh, that's coming up!
Fatha Ahmed 32:51
I know, because i will be having a "stable", according to him, butChyanne Phravoraxay 32:56
So with that mean your siblings are gonna stay with you?
Fatha Ahmed 32:59
Yeah. I'm sure they might. I mean, I think one of them might come back. Like the 13 year old. I
think he might come back, because he wants to go to high school here and graduate here and
go to college. And then yeah, just chill and I don't know, we'll see. Two years from now.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 33:15
So how is schooling there, like for your younger siblings? like Do they? Do they speak English in
schools or?
Fatha Ahmed 33:23
They do speak English. Yes, because there's mostly kids that I don't speak Swahili? So they
mostly speak English and everyone was English in Kenya. So that's good. The schools over
there, according to my brothers and my brother, he says it's way more stricter than they- in
America, because you have more like more work. Two times the work.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 33:44
Do they pray? I mean, sorry. Do they pay for school?
Fatha Ahmed 33:47
They do, yes. It's like around the same amount. They actually do pay for school. YesChyanne Phravoraxay 33:50
Like as in, before like college then they are required to pay?
Fatha Ahmed 33:54
Yes, because it's like a private? I don't know. Just pay like for each kid. They have to pay. Yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 34:01
Okay, and then so then your two younger brother twins, they're not in school yet?
Fatha Ahmed 34:06
They start school because the age limit is starting to starting school over there is four years old.
So they're starting in January, because they just turned four, like two days ago. So they'll be
starting in January.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 34:19
Oh, interesting. Is that when like the school year starts?
Fatha Ahmed 34:25
Yeah it's different over there. So they have- So they go to school January, February, March.
They don't go to school in May, June. And then, oh, wait, they don't go to school- They go to
school May, actually. They don't go to school June, July. Then they go in August. They go
September and they don't go to October, November, December. It's so differently like I was
confused at first.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 34:51
So then it starts in January then?
Fatha Ahmed 34:53
Their school year like they're- Like a new grade for them starts in January.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 34:56
Oh, okay. Oh, so it's like with the New Year?
Fatha Ahmed 35:00
Mmhm. So that's when the twins are gonna start. I don't know what grade they're gonna start.
But they're gonna start school in Janurary. I don't know what grade level they start. I think K1? I
don't even know. It's different.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 35:11
When you visited Kenya- So who were you mainly interacting with? Like we were you there to
visit family or?
Fatha Ahmed 35:22
Well, yeah. I had some family in Kenya. I mostly interacted with my cousins. And then my
neighbors who first introduced me to Kenya, and I help me with adjusting to it. And then my
neighbor who happened to be someone I was seeing a couple months later, it was gonna be
like, he proposed to me. 8I got to know them, actually. Yes, I got to know him. And then he
proposed, like two weeks before I was leaving.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 35:59
Oh, really.
Fatha Ahmed 36:00
Yeah, so I was like, he was like a nice- He's a nice person. Like he has like this future set and
everything. So I went with it and like we try and make this long distance thing work.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 36:11
Mmm. Okay.
Fatha Ahmed 36:12
It worked for a couple months and then at first I was like, yeah, I can't do this anymore, because
long distance is like right really hard. They're like on the other side of the globe. But I still like,
talk to him from time to time. Maybe in the future when I'm actually ready ready, but he was
ready and I wasn't soChyanne Phravoraxay 36:34
Is that like, common? Like, do you think that they're ready at a younger age?
Fatha Ahmed 36:38
Yeah. I mean he was like two years older than me. So I feel like he was ready. He seemed
ready. But I'm 19 and I'm not ready for that yet. I feel like it's just like for someone that was born
in America, like they're set. Like they want to get married like when they're like 25 or something.
But people back there. They want to get married like when they're like 21 start having kids like a
year later or something.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 37:02
Okay, so then would they pursue college then while starting a family?
Fatha Ahmed 37:07
So he has a degree in engineering. He got it really early. He wants to- Yeah, he's been going to
school his whole life and then he's going for his master's pretty soon.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 37:16
Oh, okay.
Fatha Ahmed 37:18
But yeah. He was ready for it, but I wasn't. But we'll see in the future what happens..
Chyanne Phravoraxay 37:24
So it's schooling different for college then? Like is it quicker is?
Fatha Ahmed 37:27
It's 6 years. He was doing engineering, so I feel like that was longer.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 37:32
Oh, okay.
Fatha Ahmed 37:33
He started when he was 17?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 37:37
Oh, wow. Okay.
Fatha Ahmed 37:38
Yeah. So I don't know how many years of school he was in, but like he was in there for a while.
He got his bachelor's in engineering. He has a stable job and then he wanted to go for his
master's, so he's gonna go back to school, and then hope to get like a better job. But he travels
a lot so likeChyanne Phravoraxay 37:55
Oh, so you can meet up with him?
Fatha Ahmed 37:57
Yeah. Maybe.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 37:59
So can you like provide information on like the cultural aspects of marriages? So like, do you
guys have a certain tradition for marriages?
Fatha Ahmed 38:11
In Islam?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 38:13
Oh, so you follow the IslamFatha Ahmed 38:14
Yeah, well my parents follow the Islam one, so I'm pretty sure we follow the Islam one. So like
you marry someone that like you trust mostly and then you don't date them necessarily. Like
you get to know them and then your family- your parent, both your parents, if each side, they
meet, they talk and then yeah, there's like a wedding and everything and pretty basic actually.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 38:41
Oh, really? Like do you think it's similar to American weddings or other different aspects of it?
Fatha Ahmed 38:47
I mean, American weddings people usually meet like oh they met, they're friends, and they start
dating for like a long period of time, and then that's when they get married. But like in Islam, like
you get to know the person for like a while and then you just get to like the chase. You get to
them like right away. There's no time.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 39:04
Yeah. So how does the actual wedding like ceremony go?
Fatha Ahmed 39:11
Around noon, the men, only the men, are supposed to go to a mosque and then a imam like
reads like reads something to like the guy like his blessing. And then they eat, they just- like
their men congratulate the groom. And then later in the night, that's when the bride comes out
with her family- comes out with her and her family and her bridesmaids and everything. Just like
a regular basic wedding, but then we basically go crazy, during the nighttime.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 39:47
Oh, okay, so like how late is it? Like after sunset or like what do youFatha Ahmed 39:51
So they usually start like around 11 or midnight?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 39:54
Oh, that's when the bride shows up?
Fatha Ahmed 39:55
Yes. But actually that's when the bride shows up. The wedding starts around 9. So they do like
the dances and everyone's like just eating, dancing, and stuff. The bride comes in at 11 like
starts dancing with everyone and then she leaves to change. So she's wearing a cultural likecultural clothing. And then she leaves and it comes back with her groom. That's when all the
men come back. Yes, and then the wedding ends at like 4 the morning soChyanne Phravoraxay 40:23
Oh, really?
Fatha Ahmed 40:24
Yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 40:24
So is there- What is the meaning behind like the time?
Fatha Ahmed 40:28
I don't really- don't know. Like, during the evening it's just the guys and then the night time. I
don't know what the meaning.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 40:37
So when you're talking about like the separation like when the guys come and the ladies comeso like, what are- what are both of them doing when they're not together then? Like, because
you said in the- at noon, it's like the guys and they're celebrating with the groom. So then what
are- what's the bride doing in the meantime, if they're not like at the wedding yet? Are they just
preparing or?
Fatha Ahmed 40:59
She- I think she preparing 'cause she gets her- the men are supposed to get like their, like their
blessings from like the dad and everything. Or something like that, before the wedding starts.
But the bride is just like preparing for the wedding and everything.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 41:15
So it's just like a one day thing then? Or like through the night?
Fatha Ahmed 41:18
So yeah, they have the wedding, during like the night and then I think they go on their
honeymoon like a couple of days later.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 41:26
Okay.
Fatha Ahmed 41:28
Pretty crazy, but you knowChyanne Phravoraxay 41:30
So then you think that your wedding would be like that too?
Fatha Ahmed 41:33
Yes. I mean, Somali weddings are like big, like really big. It's like the whole Minnesota comes,
but I was- yeah, I mean, I want a small wedding, but I know I'm not gonna have a small
wedding. I know for sure.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 41:47
Is that because of your parents? Like they want to throw a big one?
Fatha Ahmed 41:49
Yes. I mean especially my mom. She wants to invite like people from Europe.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 41:53
Oh, really? Well, you are the oldest.
Fatha Ahmed 41:55
That's true. But still. People from Europe? I don't even know them. She invites people that, we
like- She knows inside the family but like I barely know.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 42:03
Oh, okay. So then after the couple gets married, do they just living alone or?
Fatha Ahmed 42:08
Yes. Yeah, they have- When they get their house, they're not allowed to live together though,
until they get married. So they get their house before their wedding night. And then they usually
just- After the wedding, they just go to their house like official officially. But they're not allowed to
like stay together before they get married. Yeah, I guess it's like a sin or something?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 42:38
Is that like just the Islam way of thinking then?
Fatha Ahmed 42:41
Yeah, let's- Yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 42:42
Okay. Interesting. So do you have any last things to say to the viewers or like any messages or
advice that you would like to give?
Fatha Ahmed 42:52
Oh, I would say that I would encourage like the community to like I get to know more people,
around like your neighbors or something- Or your neighbors and classmates or anyone like just
get to know them better for who they are. Not like, what their beliefs or like- Like just get to know
them as a persom and like just not their religion. Don't worry about like what they believe in or
like what their culture is. So just like, get to know them and see like a different side of them,
instead of making assumptions.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 43:24
Yeah. Alright, well, thank you for coming in.
Fatha Ahmed 43:27
Thank you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Salma Awil 0:01
Today's date is March 29 2021. My name is Salma Awil and I'm here with
Zack Abdullahi 0:06
Hi, my name is Zakariya Abdullahi And I am 22 years old.
Salma Awil 0:11
So I just wanted to start off. What was your morning like today?
Zack Abdullahi 0:16
Um, that's a great questio... Show more
Salma Awil 0:01
Today's date is March 29 2021. My name is Salma Awil and I'm here with
Zack Abdullahi 0:06
Hi, my name is Zakariya Abdullahi And I am 22 years old.
Salma Awil 0:11
So I just wanted to start off. What was your morning like today?
Zack Abdullahi 0:16
Um, that's a great question. Um, I had classes and stuff in the
morning, so I had to, you know, be awake for that. Also, this morning,
I watched the Chauvin trials just to understand what's going on. It
was very interesting. I do want to go into law. So I was like, this is
a really good way to understand what's going on, especially so close.
Ours is like, you know, our city and like, our campus. So yeah, that
was those that took up a big part of my morning. Yeah,
Salma Awil 0:45
they brought their first one witness in today. And I was like, Okay,
I'm gonna watch it. But I kind of got a littel glimpse of what was
going on today.
Zack Abdullahi
Yeah, no,
0:52
Salma Awil 0:53
yeah. So What year are you? for college?
Zack Abdullahi 0:57
I'm a senior. So I'm going to be graduating in like, a month or
something.
Salma Awil
Congrats.
1:01
Zack Abdullahi 1:01
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.
Salma Awil 1:04
Tell me a little bit about yourself.
Zack Abdullahi 1:07
For sure. So like I said, my name is Zakariya. Um, I was born in
Kenya. So when you were talking about Kenya, I was like, I remember a
little bit of that. But I didn't live in Kenya for too long. I lived
there for like two years. And then I moved to Somalia. And we lived in
kismayo for a while. Me and my mom. And then we moved back to Kenya
for like, a little bit. And then we moved to Uganda. And we lived
there for like two years. Yeah, no, we moved back to Kenya. And I was
like, Oh, my God, this country. So um, yeah, that was that. And then I
came here on is about eight years old. And I've lived here like, since
then.
Salma
A lot
from?
years
Awil 1:41
of traveling a lot back and fourth. So how was it I'm traveling
So you said you came? You came back here when you was eight
old?
Zack Abdullahi 1:50
Yeah. Yeah. moved to America when I was eight,
Salma Awil 1:53
eight. So how was it like going from Somalia to Kenya to here and then
coming back here?
Zack Abdullahi 1:59
Um, it was very experience
Salma Awil
of all
2:01
Zack Abdullahi 2:02
like, yeah, it was very weird, because in Kenya, like, I lived in
Nairobi, in a community. Like little I don't know what it is, but it's
called Eastleigh. And so it's basically a sub section of Nairobi. And
there's a huge Somali community there. So when we left there and went
to Somalia, I didn't know we left because I was like, oh, more
Somalis? Yeah. So like, it wasn't really that different. And then when
we when we went to go live in Uganda, we lived in the capital city
city, Kampala. And we lived in like a majority Somali neighborhood.
But Kampala was a little different. Because there was more like, you
know, non Somalis, and I got to see them. And I remember thinking,
like, because most of most of the people I met were Muslim, but like
they weren't Somali. So I was confused. I was like, how can you be
Muslim and not Somali? Because I thought I'm assuming Somalia was the
same thing. And then I came here, and then that was, yeah, that I got
thrown out the window because I was like, dang, like, no Muslims.
barely any. And yeah, that like, the whole thing was just different.
Cuz in Africa, like, you're just living your best life, like you don't
have to stress about much. And then come here, and it's very
different.
Salma Awil 3:05
So how was it when you came here? And did you fit in with a somali
community or like, slash the Muslim community? How was it?
Zack Abdullahi
Yeah,
3:13
Salma Awil 3:13
you said you had problems with uganda . So coming here from like,
Kenya, you said something about going Somalia to Kenya, and you feel
like you're still at home? Because, you know, with the Somali
community. So coming back here, how was that with? You know, finding
your own community? Like was that hard? Any experiences that you had
with?
Zack Abdullahi 3:31
Yeah, no, that's a good question. Um, yeah. So when I came here,
everybody's like, Oh, your fob, because you're not English. I don't
remember much To be honest, like the first like, year or something,
because I remember it was just like, I could understand English, but I
couldn't understand it that well. So I knew what was being said, but I
didn't know like, how to respond and stuff. And so I think I came like
first second grade or something. And the Somali were like, he's a fob,
like, don't talk to him. So that wasn't, that wasn't like, I didn't
really connect with them as much. And then I went to a, like, a cadaan
school, I guess, public school. And it was just awkward, because like,
I didn't know anything, like I didn't know how to interact with people
nothing. And then I would fight people a lot because I'd be like, Oh,
you're talking shit about my mom. Like, we're gonna fight and so like,
there's just a lot of fights. And yeah, so like, I didn't know
anything. And then my dad took me to a charter school. And it was very
small, like you were talking about earlier. And there it was still
like your fault because I still didn't know English. So yeah, so
they're still like, Yo, dude, you're fob. Like, we're all born here.
Like, you know, speake English. So I was in ESL for like, two three
years, like just trying to learn English, make sure I had that down.
And then after that, things got better because like, it felt like I
was part of like, you know, the society and community cuz like, I have
gotten used to things by them.
Salma Awil 4:52
Okay, so you said he went to a public school to
did you go to? That the two changes from public
transition go was it like hard, even though you
mentioned. So like that to transition like what
like, public to charter cuz. For me it was kind
cultural thing. Yeah. Um, is that same for you?
a charter what schools
to charter? Yeah. that
said it was kind of
made your parents
of more like a
Zack Abdullahi 5:14
I think so because for me like I was just the troublemaker because I
was fighting everybody in their mom and the public schools and my dad
was like, well, maybe he goes to a school for people that look like
him and like, you know, speak Somali a little bit like they can defuse
the situation. So that's why they took me there. And I went to Wilson
Elementary School, which was also I think they had like a Spanish
Immersion program. And the horrible thing is, I was learning Spanish,
and I wasn't learning English. And they're getting tired of me because
you're here to be learning English, not Spanish. So the whole school
is trying to me My dad was tired of it. So they just took me to the
higher ground Academy, which was in St. Paul. And that places Somali
Central. So yeah, and I remember when I first came into that school, I
was like, I saw all the Somali boys. And I was like, Oh, my God, like,
this is amazing. And I remember going up to him be like, hey, do you
want to be friends? And I was like, in third grade or something. And
there would be like, who else's weirdo bro. But after a while, like, I
think like, couple weeks and like it was it was fine. I was still the
fob because like, I still didn't know English that long. But the cult,
like, changing into that, like getting to know people wasn't too bad.
Salma Awil 6:18
So how is it now with the Somali community right now live from like,
he said, he came here at eight till now. So was that any hard finding
like you know, local mosque like masijd finding within your own
community? Have you had any had any hardships with that?
Zack Abdullahi 7:02
I would say not too much. Because my dad lived here before me. My mom
came here. So Excuse me. So he was like, he knew all the masjids. He
knew everything. So when we came here, I kind of just followed his
lead. I had family and cousins that lived here. So like, I got to be
with them and kind of like connect with Somali community there. I
would say the only change I saw really was when I went to high school.
I went to Roseville area High School in Roseville. And there wasn't
that many Somalis there at all. So it was hard like to connect, and I
lived in Roseville. So like, I didn't get to see that many Somalis
ever. And the first time I ever came to Minneapolis, like for more
than like, a couple hours when I was when I moved on campus for
Augsburg, so living in Roseville and going to school, they're like,
I've barely saw Somalis. And so there was a huge disconnect when I
came to Minneapolis here and like, I got to meet Somalis at Augsburg
and Somalis in the community. Because they were like, Oh, you act
white. And you think your white, And you think you're better than us.
And this and that. And I was like, all, you know, like, cuz I feel
like our values, not our values, perse, but like, just kind of the way
we are. Yeah, is they thought they were like, Oh, you don't hold those
values that we hold. And so for me, I'm like, Oh, well, like, I want
to be on time like this, this and that. And like, I remember freshman
year, people were like, Oh, you you want to do this, this and that.
And you think you're better than us. And you think you're not Somali
and blah, blah, blah. I'm just like, cool. But I think the core values
still exist that you know, like, we're Muslims, and we have these
values that you know, we uphold and that type of stuff. But there's
little
Salma Awil 8:34
Yeah, I understand. Okay, so how was it when you came here? Cuz you
said on Roseville for her freshman year? How was it with you know, cuz
he said there was a little disconnect. How did that go for you?
Zack Abdullahi 8:48
Um, so freshman year, I lived on campus. And I had three other
roommates. One of them my direct roommate was Mexican, and the other
two were Somali. And like I said, like, our culture's, I guess, kind
of like, me, and the other small guys weren't really like, compatible,
just because like, they grew up in Minneapolis, and like, this was
their area until like, they would always have friends over. And for
me, that was like, not like, you can't just have random people like in
the living room and in my bedroom. Now that's so like, we had that
clash. And they'd be like, yo, just chill out, bro. Like, you know,
and that's where the whole like, Oh, you think you're white, all this
part stuck in. So it's just kind of hard to try to connect with people
because it was like, all like, we do these things. And like, you don't
do these things. And you know, it's just weird. But I think after a
while, I was just like, finding my own thing and doing my own thing
and not being like, Oh, I need to find friends or I need to find a
community this and that. And I think now being a senior like, it's
definitely changed where I do have a lot more Somali friends. And I
think it's just about finding like people that you click with, like
you said earlier and then just going from there.
Salma Awil 9:50
Definitely. Okay. So this is kind of on since you're graduating. What
are your future plans, like what do you want to do and why? Yeah,
that's
Unknown Speaker 10:00
where I'm so I'm actually accepted an offer from the U of M, the
Humphrey School, literally right there to start my master's of
development practice in September, so shall be going into
international development working on doing Education Development,
either in Africa or the Middle East. So hopefully, doing that stuff.
So yeah, thank you. So, because, like, I remember being a kid in
Africa and like, be like, my daughter would be like, oh, education is
super important. And when I travel, like, and I go visit, like home
and like mogadishu, or wherever, like I always see, like a lack of
education. And people like need an education so they can build their
country and their selves up. So that's why I'm like, I want to go into
that field and like, dedicate my life to doing that for like, our
communities.
Salma Awil 10:46
Great. MashAllah, amazing, you know, going back home to like, because
that I still going back home again, I see videos, or like my mom
talking about it, saying, you know, we have a lack of education, they
would come here for Yeah, I totally understand. You know, MashAllah.
Congrats on that. So, what other countries? Have you been to? I know,
this is kind of off topic?
Zack Abdullahi 11:09
Yeah. I visited a couple countries, I'd say,
Salma Awil 11:13
like, rather than Uganda and Kenya. And so,
Unknown Speaker 11:15
yeah, I would say, I've been to like, if you Eithopia, Israel and
Palestine, which is a weird one, and then Saudi Arabia and the UAE.
But yeah,
Salma Awil 11:26
so that kind of ties into so how is it from visiting other countries?
Like, did you see other Muslim communities? Did you like, you know,
fit in with, like, you know, how was it from experiencing from
Minnesota from home to other, you know, Muslim communities? Yeah. Was
it a little bit different? Was it like, how did that go for you?
Zack Abdullahi 11:46
Um, I would say in the more Muslim predominant countries, like it was,
it was really easy. In the case of Israel and Palestine, that was very
interesting, because, especially being black. Because like, we went,
like, we went everywhere within the country, like we went up north,
like the south and then. So that was a little awkward, because like,
they had, they hadn't really seen like, too many black people up
there. But when we went to Jerusalem, like you, like, within the city,
like there's like, the Muslim quarters, and the Jewish quarters, and
the Christian quarters, and you're when you're moving around those
like the Muslims, like, I don't know how, like, everybody just knows
they're Somali, I swear to god is weird. It's like that type of blood.
Right? Cuz like I was walking around, and they'd be like, they'd be
like, yo, yo, come here, and they use go up to them. They're like, all
right, like, you're Somali, blah, blah, blah, you know, you see, and I
was like, What? And that's the same thing that happens in Medina. And
like, monka, to like, they just, they just be yelling, like Somalis
and stuff. Yeah, so it's, I think the Muslim community, wherever you
go, is very connected. And I think I was surprised cuz I was like, I
would not be able to tell if somebody was like, you know, Egyptian, or
Palestinian or this or that. Like, I don't know, most people look the
same to me. Like, I'm not gonna lie. So yeah,
Salma Awil 13:00
definitely. Yeah. It is kind of hard to tell kind of people but it's
interesting how you said that you went to Medina? Was it? How they
told you, come here, Come here, and know, your Somali. And so that
was really interesting. Was it like, a whole shock like that? Like,
how did you interpret that? Um,
Zack Abdullahi
13:19
I think, because so many like Somalis do visit Mecca and Medina.
They're used to seeing them. So like, I went with a couple guys from
Augsburg and like other other guys from Minneapolis. If I could study
abroad, they did there. No, it was just like a bunch of sorry. No, no,
it's just a bunch of guys that went together. Through this program
called strung together in Minnesota. You might have heard of it. Yeah.
So like, it's just a bunch of boys. There's like 30 or 40 of us, we
all went there. And then an hour hotel is right next to like all the
shops right next to the prophete masjid. So like, we were to go from
our hotel to the masjid you had to pass by the shopping center And
there was be like, a Samana. Like there would be yelling at the top of
their lungs. And then they'd be like, come here, we have a deal for
you. Okay, blah, blah, blah. And it's just like, it's just super fun.
Because, like, they're just like, you know, doing their thing. And
we're just like, having fun. It wasn't like, anything weird or like,
yeah, I'm trying to try to like scam us or something like that.
Salma Awil 14:17
Okay, so back to Minnesota. Is Minnesota, like the place that you
would, like, bring back come back as a family? Is it like a, I would
say, a safe space for us and you know, traveled in different
countries? Would you like to come back here and start a family?
Zack Abdullahi 14:33
Yeah, I would definitely, I would definitely say that, um, but also
thinking of like, what I would do, like, career wise, I'll be
traveling a lot internationally. So I feel like maybe like, living in
different places would also be nice. But I'm also trying to think of
like if like the inshallah, like having kids and like we're, you know,
like constantly moving them because I hated moving when I was a kid.
But I think Minnesota would definitely be a place just because there's
already that that community, that structure and Then like, you know,
they get to see people like them. They also have a bit of diversity
where like, it's not just Somalis. But another place I always wanted
to live. After visiting is Jeddah in Saudi Arabia, because it's so
beautiful and like, I have family and friends there and I was just
like, like this This place is, you know, so yeah, as definitely like,
I definitely think about that like, like either Jeddah, Somalia. I
don't know, like, I feel like there's too many Somalis to be honest.
And then here, just because like, you know, like, they get to be in
that Islamic, like surroundings in Minnesota, because there's a lot of
Somalis in in Jeddah, like, Saudi Arabia, like Mecca is an hour away.
So it's beautiful. Yeah.
Salma Awil 15:40
Um, so how is it with? I would say, since it's more COVID now, like,
you know, we get used to the COVID with wearing mask? How is that with
you? Like, the everything is my virtual and resume? The How is that
with, you know, interacting with other Muslim communities? Is that Is
it hard to like, even, you know, masjid, you know, going to the
mosque, or anything like that, is it more virtual? Like, how was that
for you? Like, how's that road?
Zack Abdullahi 16:07
Yeah, I remember in March, last year, like my dad, when he left for
Somalia to visit, like, family and stuff. And I was just by myself,
and I was like, you know, like, we still didn't know too much about
COVID. Because we were hearing about it. And then like, once he got
there, they started talking about, like, We're shutting down airports,
in Somalia, all this stuff. And I remember like, being like oh Ramadan
is coming up, and like, I'm gonna spend it all by myself. And that was
just sad. Because I was like, dang, like, usually men who mean him
would go to the masjid and like, you know, do our thing. Like, it was
just like, a routine and like culture that we had. And then, like, the
worst part was just not getting to, like, go to Tel Aviv or anything
like that. It was just like, yeah, you were just stuck in the house. I
was just there by myself and be like, just praying and stuff. But
yeah, that has been, I think the worst part is not having that
community because I think Muslim, like, Islam is surrounded by like,
you know, the core things like having that community, like, that's why
we do Hajj. That's what we do Umrah. I'm not like a lot of these
things we do together as a community, so we can build, you know, that
community up. So when COVID came along, he just ruined all that it was
just super hard. Even now trying to go to the masjid on Fridays, like,
you have to sign up on a website, or you have to be in line
Salma Awil 17:19
some masjid, they give you like a COVID screening or something like
that.
Zack Abdullahi 17:22
Yeah, it's very, like they have a lot of things going on. So like, I
have to try to find the right masjid at the right time and all this.
So that does kind of mess that up on. I remember before COVID started.
A lot of the guys that Augsburg and I would go to this mystery type
just like a mile away. And we would go there for like holidays and
stuff. Like now we can't do that. So like, This definitely just
literally just came along and said we're we're I'm ruining everything.
So
Salma Awil 17:49
COVID COVID did really messed up a lot of things. Yeah. Um, so what do
you look forward to like right now? Like, since the Ramandan is coming
up, you know, since COVID? Are, I think my more masjid right now are
starting to open back up? Yeah. Like, what are your plans for that?
Like, how do you feel?
Zack Abdullahi 18:06
Yeah, um, so my dad is back in my mom's back. So I'm like, this is at
least going to be like, not as lonely as last time, it was awkward. So
I'm excited for that. But also, I think, hopefully, the masjid are
opened up, just like going like with my dad and my friends and just
going through the motions and spending time together. Because I think,
like, even with my cousins, like, last year, we couldn't do anything.
So going through the masijid and spending time with them. It was
just, I think, important. So that's one thing. Hopefully we can like,
interact with more people too, because it's not like, you don't build
like community just in the midst of like, you can build it outside
too. So hopefully we get to do that. Hopefully, Eid does not ruin
because last year, that was horrible. It was terrible. So yeah, I'a,
let things work out, hopefully, hopefully and i'a
Salma Awil 18:56
Okay, so another question I'm going to ask you is, how did your faith
you know, influenced your life as a Somali man in the Muslim
community?
Zack Abdullahi 19:07
Um, I would say when I was like living in Africa and like more Muslim
communities, I guess, like, I was a kid, to be honest, but still,
like, I never had to worry about things. And I think of something my
dad told me where he was like, oh, when I lived in Somalia before the
Civil War and stuff like, like, he didn't see like, so like, for
example, like in the Quarn, like, don't do this, don't do that. And
he's like, oh, like, Who would ever do that? Like, why would people do
that? And he's like, when I came here, like, he's like, I saw, you
know, the things that I really I was oblivious to. And so I kind of
have that sense to where I'm like, when I came here, I'm like, yo,
like, my faith is super important. And I need to hold that dear. But I
think one thing that I absolutely love about Muslims and Islam in
general is like, the generosity part. Like we're always and Somalis
like, specifically like you mentioned this to in your interview. But
like, I don't think I've ever been to like Somalis were like stingy or
weird about things. Like they're always so like welcoming and just,
like you never feel like out of place, you know. And so that
generosity for me is important because I've met so many kind people
like around the world, like, Everywhere I go, like I always meet kind
people. And like, anytime I'm at an airport, and like, there's other
Somalis there, they're always helping each other. Yes. And so like,
that's just like, so beautiful to me. And just to see, like, you know,
that they have that common shared identity and like, they will never
probably see each other again, but like, they care about each other
and like, they have that love for each other regardless. So like,
that's something I want to always have like shout, pass down to my
kids and be like, yo, like, you love people. respect people. And just
always be generous to people because like, if you're closing your
hand, you know, like Allah gives you the risk that's not yours to keep
and you know, try to be stingy with so like, always give and always
love, I think would be something that
Salma Awil 20:55
it's really good to hear. So little going back to what you said
earlier, you talked about how you went to Roosevelt to higher ground I
believe. So did you face any like as a Somali boy did you face any
like hardships? Like not hardships but with your faith with? Did you
feel any or conflicted with going to a public school or compared to a
more charter? Because more charter I would say is more Higherground is
more Somali, I would say that much you know Somali dominant, but
compared to going to a public school? Was your deen you know, your
faith? Was there any compromise or anything like that?
Zack Abdullahi 21:32
Yeah, that's a great question. Cuz I remember specifically. So when we
moved to Roseville, and my parents were thinking of like, where to
send me to school and stuff. A lot of the Somali people are like, Oh,
don't send your son to like, Rosemont high school because like, you
know, there's like, you know, like, gay people. And there's like this
and that, like, there's a weird white people and like, school shooters
and all this stuff that they're talking about. And so my parents were
really scared, but they're also like, do like, you know, he's, he's
getting to be like an adult and like, he needs to make decisions for
himself. So they let me go there. And like I said, there was barely
any Somalis in my freshman year, there was like, five of us like three
girls and two boys that were Somali. And I remember like, possible, it
was always weird, because like, I would walk in the hallways, and I
will see people literally eating each other's face and like just
making out doing random things. Like, I remember like seeing people
just disrespecting like their teachers and like, parents in so many
different things. And I would always think to myself, like my dad saw
me like, I would not make it that far. And so like, there's definitely
like clashes where I was like, you know, and the hardest part was
like, trying to pray in high school.
Salma Awil
Yeah, I
22:39
Zack Abdullahi 22:39
think college was easier. But high school I remember telling my gym
teacher, like, all my friends have to go pray like, he was only on
this one kid. She'd be like, no, you're just trying to skip out on
gym, or like math teacher would be like, Oh, you're bad at math. So
you're just trying to skip all like, bro, like, I don't like a little
you take 5,10 minutes max. Like, just to go pray. I remember we had to
go through this whole thing to like, you know, make sure we can pray
and like get prayer spaces and all this stuff. There was never MSA at
our school. So we had to start then, like, try to build community
there. So it was definitely difficult just because, like, it's so easy
to like, you know, like, just go into that, like, Oh, it's easier to
give up than to continue to resist and fight. So yeah,
Salma Awil 23:20
it is hard with the public school to like talk about you know,
religion wise, because back in your time, not saying that your old. It
is really hard to talk about, like prayer, even with right now with my
own. Like when I just graduated high school, it was a little bit more
teachers were like now getting used to like kids praying, you know,
kids getting out of class. But yeah, it was difficult, honestly, I
would say.
So, what are you so coming to freshmen here? I was at augsburg
university? Um, did you like, were you involved? Any other like, like
MSA activities, or any, you know, did you were you involved in any
school activities? Can you tell me a little bit more on that?
Zack Abdullahi 24:02
Yeah. Um, so as I mentioned, like, a little bit ago, In high school,
we started the MSA. And that, like, we started that my junior year,
and I was president for the two like, junior senior year. And so, by
the time when I was done with that, I was like, I'm doing student
organizations. I'm doing all that stuff. I never want to see them
again. So when I came to Augsburg, I was very anti, like student orgs.
And I was just like, I'm not doing this. But I did try to go to like
MSA events and stuff just to like, build that community because I felt
like I wasn't that close to the Somalis. And, you know, I think I had
a lot more like Mexican, like Latin ex friends than I did. And so I
was like, because of my roommate was Mexican. So I was like, all I
need to build that. That's where I went. I went to some PASU events.
And then yeah, and then sophomore year, I was kind of gone most of the
time out the country or like out of state, so I didn't get to do that.
And then last year, I ran for president of PASU. And then I became
president and then that's kind of been really like, that's been most
of my Invand then outside of that just like doing like scholarship
stuff and like fellowship stuff on campus. But yeah,
Salma Awil 25:07
yeah, what is PASU?
Zack Abdullahi 25:10
Oh, my bad, it's Pan African Student Union. Okay, great.
Salma Awil 25:13
Is there anything that you want to conclude or that you want to add
that we haven't talked about?
Zack Abdullahi 25:21
No, I think you did a pretty good job.
Salma Awil
Okay.
25:24
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Transcript of Oral History Interview with Salma Awil, 2021
Abstract: The transcript of an oral history interview with Salma Awil, a first year at Augsburg
University. Awil discusses her identities as a Somali Muslim woman. She also talks to us about
how these identities shape her lens of th... Show more
Transcript of Oral History Interview with Salma Awil, 2021
Abstract: The transcript of an oral history interview with Salma Awil, a first year at Augsburg
University. Awil discusses her identities as a Somali Muslim woman. She also talks to us about
how these identities shape her lens of the world today. This oral history project was conducted
by a student at Augsburg University and submitted in partial fulfillment of a course taught by Dr.
Maheen Zaman.
Zakariya Abdullahi 0:00
Hmm ... so my name is Zakariya Abdullahi and the date is March 29 2021. Salma can you
introduce ... wow ... Salma can you please state your full name and age?
Salma Awil 0:12
Hi. My name is Salma Said Awil, I'm a freshman here at Augsburg University.
Zakariya Abdullahi 0:18
Awesome. Alright, so Salma of them ask a bunch of questions. Feel free to answer as in depth as
you'd like, or you can make it short as you want. So the first question is, What did you have for
either breakfast or lunch today?
Salma Awil 0:32
I'm not really a morning personality really breakfast like that, even though it's like the first major
meal. But I had coffee. Yeah. My iced. What do I get? Starbucks? doubleshot. Nice.
Zakariya Abdullahi 0:47
Yeah. What? Are you in coffee feen?
Salma Awil 0:48
Yes.
Zakariya Abdullahi 0:49
Okay. That's fair. Okay. So next I'm asked you about just where you were born, where you were
raised. So like, Where were you born?
Salma Awil 0:57
I was born here in St. Louis Park, at Saint Methodist Hospital
Zakariya Abdullahi 1:04
Okay. And then were you raised here (MN)?
Salma Awil 1:06
Yeah, I was raised here most of my life, honestly.
Zakariya Abdullahi 1:09
Okay. Were you raised in like different cities within Minnesota or?
Salma Awil 1:11
Minneapolis ... the metro area
Zakariya Abdullahi 1:14
Okay. And then, um, have you ever traveled abroad? If so, where?
Salma Awil 1:19
I did, so I traveled. What year was it? 2013 to 14 I traveled to. So it was me as we did like a
family vacation. It was me, my mom like the whole family. We went up to abroad to Europe. We
stayed at London for like, I think two weeks. It turned into like a family vacation. Then we went
to Dubai stayed there about like two to three weeks was beautiful. And so I want to go back. So
after that we went to so this is a funny story. So we made it. My mom's like, I have to go see my
sister. I haven't seen her like, two to three years is that time I'm like, okay, so we all agreed to on
like Kenya. And then my mom told me "we're gonna stay at the beautiful part of Kenya". So
okay, so we stayed there. And then my mom, apparently she loved it. So she was like, I want to
extend it out. And I was like, Huh, so me, my sister is like my brother. We're like, Okay, well let
it fly. But we have to go back to school. And I'm like, yeah, that's fine. And then let alone that
she had planned out our school, like where were going to stay. And then she didn't tell us
because my aunt she was like, Yeah, because you're staying here for another year. And I'm like,
it's just what some other stuff. Yeah, like, why, but I was like, I want apparently she loved to
play so much. So she was like, she talks to my arm, her sister. And she was like, Is there any
good schools like schools around ... Dugsi like Sunday school. And she was like, me, she felt
like enrolled all of us in. And then she was like, one day you came to listen, because we're saying
that was our aunt. And then our aunt was like, she was like, yeah, guys are gonna stay here for
another year. I already enrolled in school, you know, already got your uniform. Like, she got
everything aligned. It was like smack in the face. And me and my siblings were like, huh, what?
pause. And then my mom was like, yeah, we're gonna stay here. for another year. I did like a
whole lease my visa and everything. She got that situated. And I'm like, Oh, no, we're not. We're
me. We had a whole day fit, like a whole argument. And I'm like, I don't want to be here. I am
not from here. I don't know. Like, I don't know, language, Swahili. And it's like, Swahili people
like Kenyatte people are very mean. Like, if you move like speaking English, they only look at
these little Americans look at these brands. So it's like, I was like, I don't fit in and I'm like,
please take back. I want to go back to school. I want to see my friends.
Zakariya Abdullahi 3:44
Right. And how old were you at this time?
Salma Awil 3:46
I was 13 I believe 12, 13, 15 I'm not sure I was around that age. And I didn't really like it.
Unfortunately for me, my sisters are pretty old. They're older than me. So they just took a flight
out there like we are not staying.
Zakariya Abdullahi 4:01
Oh, yeah, you're left behind.
Salma Awil 4:04
I got me in my younger siblings and my brother we got left behind. Well my two sisters like
autograph saying no, we it's supposed to be the stuff on vacation just you know stay there for two
probably three just you know enjoy the weather and then go back but there was this was gonna
be that agreement. And my mom was like No, I love it here. We're gonna stay up there pretty
grown so my mom was like if you guys want to go back that's up to you you know totally but
you kids I am in charge. So you're gonna say
Zakariya Abdullahi 4:31
yeah, so did you live in Eastliegh when
Salma Awil 4:35
no at first were staying in South Sea? So the good part of Kenya and then my mom was like,
Okay you guys are need to see the real life like Kenya. This is are too Americanized. That's what
she said. I am like hooyo, no, we're not. I love to here. I don't want to be like mud, like smelling
all that sewer. I am like no. So she took us after staying because my aunt. She really had Like a
big, like guest house cause Kenya they own these really big houses. So she had a guest house
that we're staying in. And my mom was that, okay, she rented out an apartment in Eastliegh she
said, You guys need to live experience like, see what is to, you know, Eastliegh, instead of just
being a preppy, little. So she was like now so she took us to sleep after like staying like, four
months in. So we were staying in that guest house for like four minutes for me for months. And
then afterwards, we left. And then we stayed there for she pushed it out, like a year and a half.
So, four months, being in a nice, nice guesthouse to like living in sleep for a year now. Like, a
year, I'll say yeah.
Zakariya Abdullahi 5:48
So how's that like living in Eastliegh?
Salma Awil 5:50
Oh, it was really eye opening. Like the culture, the people how they interact with each other, like
if you see two like people walking down this, you know, sidewalk. We (Americans) say excuse
me, you know, you know, please move to somewhere there's no such thing as excuse me, they
will bum into you. And I got, like, bumped into the floor so many times. And I'm like, you gotta
toughen up there is no such thing as excuse me. . And I'm like, okay, yeah. So after we moved
into Eastliegh, we got into like Sunday, you know, Dugsi, school. And over there. It's like, even
though we have some like private schools here, where do you Where are you being used on wear
uniform? Over there? Like all the schools all the Sunday schools are we are we wearing
uniform? And that was like, Monday through like Monday through Sunday? Yeah, I only had
like a day off like my mom's right. And to me, it was that but it was really it was really fun. Like,
I loved like, one thing. I'm not regretting that went there. And I honestly loved it. Because I came
back here with new eyes. Like, I felt more appreciate what I had it here because it's like, I see
little kids, you know, that don't really have that much insight compared to what I have and I am
like alx. You know, I'm thankful for what I have. And my parents provided me and looking back
and I was like, I'm very grateful, honestly, because it's people write their display off, you know,
selling little bananas, mangoes on the street just to make the living by and I'm like, and I
complain about the little thing like, for Starbucks in suits. I don't like my drink. It's too nasty. Oh.
So just over there and seeing how they live and how I'm living here. Alhamdulillah I'm grateful.
Zakariya Abdullahi 7:36
Yeah. I mean, I think in Kenya, you also get to see like, especially Eastliegh, like you see the
people that live on top of like the big trash warnings.
Salma Awil 7:44
They're called. They're called. What was the name for? inaudible?
Zakariya Abdullahi 7:48
What?.
Salma Awil 7:49
inaudible, right?
Zakariya Abdullahi 7:51
That's in Somali, right?
Salma Awil 7:52
No, no, no, no, in Eastliegh like, people that will live on top of trash. Yeah, so that means
inaudible are so since here, we call it homelesses. Like they're homeless. They're word over there
is inaudible,
Zakariya Abdullahi 8:07
That's actually well
Salma Awil 8:09
there, we're staying there. I learned the language. Swahili.
Zakariya Abdullahi 8:12
So did you speak now? Or
Salma Awil 8:14
no, I kind of like I know if like few words like inaudible. That means a little bit. You know?
What's the word was inaudible that means that I'm very good.
I think I don't know my
my swahili is bad. Like I understand, you know, a few things here and there. Because over there,
we had like a maid. And she taught me Swahili, despite me going to school, it was really hard for
me. So she taught me like, I'll teach me teach me English. And I'll teach Swahili. So I was like,
perfect. So I was the only one in my family that learned it to quick that my mom should pick that
up. But my siblings, like I'm not learning. They're like, no, so I came back here. And it's like, I
had no one to speak at work. So I completely forgot. You know, if you don't like practice in your
speaking you're going to forget it eventually.
Zakariya Abdullahi 9:00
.No, that's true. What do you say is like, was the difference between kind of living in Kenya
where, especially in Eastliegh, where you lived among like Muslims versus here in St. Louis
Park, I think St. Louis Park as a huge, like Jewish community. So like, and just in Minnesota in
general versus living in a more like, Muslim populated country.
Salma Awil 9:21
I would say over there. Since the part that we lived in Slee we had a mosque near us like msgid.
And that was like, because our apartment was like, right next to the next door to the message. So
every morning, like I said, we were here that time, everything so it's like, we never miss Paris a
lot. Like every time we would hear it and then my either walked invested, or just prayer at home
and just listen, because we would hear but coming back here. It's like really hard because we got
so used to, you know, the fetcher actually, you know, the hook, so we all hear that. So it's like
compared to coming back here. It's like really hard to getting it back to it. So that was really hard
for me to adjust. Because like Marshalls beautiful like, every time I hear a comment, I say, Come
back to here. It's like nothing, you know. Hopefully you can hear or my mom telling me to pray.
But coming over there, it's like you can hear through the windows. Yeah.
Zakariya Abdullahi 10:21
And then, so this is kind of getting away from the center theme of the traveling, but so like, how
has your like, faith influenced your life? Like being hijab and all that, like just being Muslim?
How's that?
Salma Awil 10:36
Honestly, it's
beautiful. I love it. My friends, I work at Starbucks, right? And make sense? Yeah. Yes, it's a
coffee. Um, so I have their I think they're Christian, I believe. Yeah. So they asked me, so I have
a Muslim friend, but she doesn't cover up like she's show there. And I have another Christian
friend. We all work together. And then one day, we were out and she asked me, you know, how
is it wearing Hijab? Since you know, there's a lot some phobia going on? You know, how do you
feel about that? I'm like, honestly, I am partnered with one person that, you know, call me on and
what, Andrew how under there, and I'm like, into call, aren't you calling? So beautiful, I love it.
So it's like having that refreshing talk someone saying, like, you know, it's like, honestly, it's a
we live in a free country, even though people still criticize you, and judge you and will get you a
certain way. At the end of the day. It's like, honestly, that's their opinion. And I can do that I feel,
you know, contempt with myself, and I feel really good. So it's, it's honestly, it's a blessing, it's
beautiful, you know, to live within a community, you know, having, even though with having
diverse friends, it's like, me trying to, you know, explain to them, you know, it's my choice, my
religion, and I decided to even though with my friend, she's Muslim, she, you know, she calls her
when she's praying. But she, that's her choice and in the name, looking out, for this thing, good to
see from a different person, you know, perspective from a person that is Muslim, but she doesn't
cover up as I do. And she doesn't like, so how does that, like me seeing her faith in her, like, you
know, how she see things and compared to my view, and it's honestly beautiful, like, wow, okay,
you know, cover up, but you know, we still believe in the same face.
Zakariya Abdullahi 12:27
And then, what is the value that you hold dearly?
Salma Awil 12:32
Good question.
A value that I hold dearly?.
Zakariya Abdullahi 12:46
If you can't think of one that's fine.
Salma Awil 12:50
value?
Can you example
Zakariya Abdullahi 12:57
for example, like, if I had to think about something that holds really, I would say like, generosity
is it's something that I really value. So like, being generous with your money, time, all that stuff.
People might be like, honesty is a huge value. All that.
Salma Awil 13:13
I would say, respect is a big thing for me. I don't care like what color what race, you know, what
religion you practice, respect is a huge thing for me, like, like, me seeing things like for example,
I was at a coffee shop, right? And I see this guy, he was white. And he the guy who's an old gray,
was when I was like, 16, it seems like a bad guy hammered down. Like, there was no seats. So
and then was pretty was like it was for this is before COVID before COVID. So he was, um,
there was no seats, and I was gonna get up out of my seat for him. Because, you know, he had a
cane, he couldn't really sit, so I was gonna get out of my seat for him. But this white guy was
right in front of me. He just, it was like me and two other girls. So it's like, it's a bunch of us with
em. I'm thinking as a guy, you know, he's going to get up this respect, because he's the older guy,
you know, get out of the seat for him. But no, he looked at him and like, in the guy asked them,
Hey, can you please can I see sit here just for a little bit, you know, my back is hurting. And like
I look just looked up and I was like, No, but the whole attitude. I'm like, Oh, God, I can't say,
you know, you could have said it. No, sir. What either, you know, you kind of just politely say,
No, I can't No, I'm sorry. I'm gonna sit here. But it's like he said in a rude way. And I'm like, he's
older than you knew he could be your father. So it's like, I was like, No, that's like a huge thing.
Respect. Respect your elders. You know, I was taught that when I was younger, expect you
know anyone, you know, even though they could be a mother at the end days. Just respect. A
really big thing.
Zakariya Abdullahi 14:57
I definitely agree with you on that. And then how has your smallie slash Muslim identities
shaped the way that you interact with people different from you?
Salma Awil 15:09
Um,
it hasn't been really like, how I interact with people honestly. With my so my community on
obviously has been good. Honestly, I got I haven't had any difficulties with that, even with like
interacting with like, white people, black people, you know, people of color is honestly hasn't
been hard. It's like, it depends on who you are in your personality. That's how I see it. Yeah, so
it's on one day I had a meeting with another meeting, but I interacted with two white girls. I was
at the mall shopping this I think was like Black Friday. And we just met because she said I love
your coat because I was wearing what was I wearing?
I think I was ready to go back to the mall.
Yeah, I was at the wedding party because I was picking up order from Macy's and I was reading
about teen a cute little cardio Puma. And she said, Oh my god, I love your dress. I love your
culture. And I'm like, I was I think she's like, what is this? I
don't like it's about.
I was like I say, it's something that we stay home and I'm like, she loved it is just explaining my
culture and who she is. She was like, I honestly love it. And ever since then we've interacted like
last two nights ago. We're at her house doing like a facial thing, because that's how well we are
interacting. She's like, well, she invited me to her house. We had masks on six feet apart. But it
was like just interacting with people. And it's like, getting to like no other people even just
outside me because she loved my dress my flesh body. She loved and that's how we interact in
my now we communicate. Right? She was like, oh my i love it. Now we like potluck friends
come in new friends. Right? due to culture wise.
Zakariya Abdullahi 16:57
I was gonna say so what have you learned from her though? Like, I feel you're teaching her a lot.
Salma Awil 17:01
Yeah, um, she she did put me on with her. She owns a facial company with skincare routine. And
she helped me with my skincare. Like, that's one thing. I've benefited from her skin. She owns
her. I think it's a whole vegan thing. Like I don't really remember. But she owns her own
company. She helped me with skincare. And I told her what problems I have my face, you know,
due to masks, because that's really not good for the face. So she helped him with gave me
products to use try out and it's like, we both benefit anyways. It was really good. It's beautiful.
Zakariya Abdullahi 17:43
So what are some challenges that you face as a Somali Muslim woman in Minnesota, but also
what are like some victories and wins? You kind of mentioned that you're like, I'm always vibing
out like, you don't have a problem with people, which is nice. So that could be something else.
But like, what are some challenges overall?
Salma Awil 18:03
I wouldn't be lying if I say I'm having challenges, but one challenge would be
Zakariya Abdullahi 18:15
okay, so question, man, then maybe hopefully, we can dig in what high school did you go to?
Did you go to a predominantly white high school?
Salma Awil 18:21
Okay, so growing up, my mom, she was very religious. So she didn't really like me going to a
public school. She wanted me to go Somali school, like meaning Martin, you know, charter
school, or like more of like, kids. So she took me to, at first like, when I was growing up, I went
to like, global. And I went to, and I did, and then I switched out went to heritage. I don't know if
you heard this cousin. Yeah, I went there, like growing up from like middle school to like,
halfway my high school year, I went to heritage, and that was predominantly like, slowly, like
now they try to open up since a bit since before it was a charter school. Now it became public. So
it's like more they're trying to have it diverse. Like with smaller schools, like, like white and
black. Both were coming out. But I transferred out of there because it's like, there's not that much
of like this and atonements opportunities with a small school. I transferred out to Southwest High
School. And I know and that's more diverse. And it's like, well, it comes with opportunity, but
I'm over staying at with compared to like Southwest it's more diverse compared to heritage and
that's like all Somali school. I loved it. I loved having like, you know, Somali friends like most
of like, basically the whole class of Somali compared to Southwest, it's Asian, non Hispanic, you
know, black Somali, white, compared to heritage that's just all Somali. Right. It was beautiful.
But you know, I love both experiences because I got to meet meet new friends meet new people.
And just it's kind of a little bit hard when you're in school. Like one thing I would say, me
transferring into a new school I don't know anybody was a little bit hard. Just you know, being
Somali Muslim girl is being there for I think it took like one elective was AP, and also on the
back end. Yeah, I was the only covered like, Somali girl. And then I was always losing the AP
class. And as I looked at them, and I'm like,
Zakariya Abdullahi 20:28
start looking around,
Salma Awil 20:29
I had to pull my white perky boys to like fit in. And it was really hard. Compared to my other
school, my heritage. I sit down there, buddy, like, it's my people. Like, I love this, like I get to, it
wasn't really hard to interact with psi. And I'm gonna say it was hard to interact. But it was like,
it was really easy and going with, you know, staying at Heritage was also my kids. And it's
compared to Southwest. And it's I was in that class, and I was the only black person there. That's
really hard to fit in, like just comfortably I can only black. Right? And it's all
Zakariya Abdullahi 21:02
white people. That was really hard. And then I had a similar experience. So I was gonna ask you
two questions. One was, how to like, how was the transition? Like, you know, like, you
mentioned, it was hard, but like, like, culturally as well, because like, we all live in Minnesota.
When do you think like, we all have the same, like, you know, we go through the same stuff, we
watch the same TVs and like, shows and that type of stuff? Like, were you still able to like when
you came into Southwest? Were you like, you know, able to click with other kids there? Or was
it? Did you feel like, the odd one out?
Salma Awil 21:35
Um, no, not really, it was a little bit harder. At first because it was just me, but I finally
convinced one of my friends over heritage, I told her to transfer with me. So don't be the only
little duckling at the school like I was the new kid. So I need her so I can just, you know, have
someone from my past, you know, just be with me. So I have her transferred with me. And like
the first one, two weeks, I think I'll say week, it was really hard to find because it's really big
school. So it's really hard to have classes. And eventually, I met my own little, like, quick, like
the little group on like, Somali girl groans It was really nice at first. It was, at first it was really
hard just to fit in, you know, talk to people on this stuff. It took me a while to just find my group.
But eventually it was, it was a little again, easy.
Zakariya Abdullahi 22:30
Yeah. And then follow up to that. So like, how do you say like, going to her and heritage and
then going to Southwest? How's that influenced your life now? Like who like who makes up the
most demographic of your friends like is all Somalis and Muslims are like, some guns or white
people black people is a diverse or what is your friend group
Salma Awil 22:50
right now? It's not part of one's life friend. Oh, well. Yeah, I want more storage for that. Another
time for that. But I at first throughout my high school, my senior year of high school, it was
mostly what problems they did tend towards family friends. And the most were like, I had Asian
values. I have a don because I was in this city wide student leader group, where I would go there
every after school.
Zakariya Abdullahi 23:23
And it was
Salma Awil 23:25
it was really diverse to have like, I was like the only Somali girl in that city life. Like a student
leader, we we talk about, like what problems we can solve within the Minneapolis Public
Schools. Well, we can fake so be I was in that group. And I was on the small girl. So it's like,
really? That was that? What made me have more? More like, you know, within having Somali
friends, it was like a bond. But after high school, you know, they said, you'll find your true
friends after high school, you start to lose them. And that was just at that time. You know, when
we're at high school, I found my little clique and then it ended, right right after high school, but
for now, it's gone. Like probably one something like band aids and it's like diverse, Asian, black.
Hispanic. Yeah. No, when
Zakariya Abdullahi 24:19
you say black, you mean like African American, African American. I wasn't asking something I
forgot. Oh, so your first year right? Yeah. First year started in September. Obviously, you haven't
been on campus too much.
Salma Awil 24:34
probably been on campus twice. This is like my second time. First time like to pick up my ID
and stay far away. Again, this is a second time being here.
Zakariya Abdullahi 24:43
Um, so I don't know how much this question applied. But how safe Do you feel in your classes
like both Originally, I guess or being on campus physically, or two times.
Salma Awil 24:55
honestly feel safe. I don't really want to give it like Yeah. this is my second time paying her just
like the vibes it's really i feel like security over the campus i feel like it's safe but i'm not gonna
know that for sure until i start coming here for classes i'm not but just by being here the two
times that i was here it was i feel safe
Zakariya Abdullahi 25:19
and then do you feel safe like in your virtual classes too are you like is it like high school where
you were looking around you're like oh while i'm lonely
Salma Awil 25:27
no no no i think that's a totally different for now because i'm you know diverse and i need to see
more other people and practice being you know african you're not kidding in there but it was i
feel like pretty safe in my virtual classes
Zakariya Abdullahi 25:45
and then i was gonna ask you are you involved with anything in augsburg whether that's like msa
pasu trio any of that stuff
Salma Awil 25:55
oh no yeah but i want to probably later on not right now and because of this busy with the house
family and work on those just over on my right now but i definitely want to get to that in the near
future you know probably try it msa because i was in my msa in high school i was a part of that
and i still want to be involved with it is variable probably not now but later
Zakariya Abdullahi 26:24
okay hopefully final questions so we seem like somali minnesotans are like one of the like the
most like successful immigrants to come in and like successful in terms of like i think we've been
doing that too but i wouldn't say like if you think about like how many immigrant communities
are in minnesota and like how fast somalis are moving within minnesota like politics and like the
economy and everything like somalis are doing a pretty good job so what do you think is like the
future of minnesota looks like for for somalis and for muslims yeah
i feel like
Salma Awil 27:04
like okay so i feel like salons like within our community and within the muslim community i feel
like we're gonna prosper and grow like honestly i've seen some people from africa that don't have
anything come here and they write two months there they got 10 times like
Zakariya Abdullahi 27:22
wow nothing
Salma Awil 27:24
less like what like mashallah you really grinding in you know all about that bag but like and it's
like mashallah it's beautiful it's like how quick we come here to work you know to get an
education you know to get somewhere within our lives and we are shallow we do that fast thing a
little bit within our community it's like we help each other you know someone's down with
someone who's doing this you know we all come together and help each other to help that person
grow and that will be even within the you know muslim community with different cultures and
different backgrounds and i thought that's beautiful that we do that and i've seen that here with
you know living in minnesota for so many years like i seen that with different cultures because i
have other adult friends and me her telling me about all this person you know they're not really
doing well or is it you know they're not doing i suppose like how they see their families they
come together and just help that person
Zakariya Abdullahi 28:15
is beautiful yeah so like the community is very well
Salma Awil 28:18
yes well very good clinic
Zakariya Abdullahi 28:19
that's beautiful all right and then finally is there anything else that you'd like to share with
Salma Awil 28:27
you a fun fact
i can
i can when i was younger i always had like a train that i wanted to learn different languages like
other than you know somali english right um and i still want to do that like right now even
though i learned kiswahili like i'm i have like other co workers that are connecting they speak
swahili like i'm like learning how to speak it and it's my code shala i want to lend at least five
masters like i want to master five languages like my two five are somali english can swahili
arabic and spanish
Zakariya Abdullahi 29:12
you know the basics of arabic grace
Salma Awil 29:14
i know the basics
Zakariya Abdullahi 29:16
to build on that yeah not to
Salma Awil 29:18
build on that it's like those are the two ones i really want to build on that because i already know
like when people are speaking swahili i can understand the basics like certain things i can
understand what they're saying like how they just have idea what they're talking about but i still i
kind of forgot so it's like if i build on that right now i could eventually you know learn how to
speak it and right because i used to write and read and again the whole nine yards does too so
inshallah i want to learn myself and give that are my somali it's not all that i only like touch
bases on what i can yeah in' sha allah you know grown
Zakariya Abdullahi 29:56
so build on all that beautiful mashallah i think you can easily do it.
Salma Awil 30:01
It's like a mind over matter. Honestly, if you tell yourself you can't do it, then you can do it right.
If you tell yourself you can do it, you put your mind to it, you can eventually get it.
Zakariya Abdullahi 30:10
All right, awesome. Thank you so much for doing this.
Salma Awil 30:13
Thank you for having me.
Zakariya Abdullahi 30:14
Oh my goodness. Now, this didn't turn out
Show less
FG: Hello everyone, my name is Fatima Gele. I'm a student at expert
University. It's April 8, 2021 and I'm here today with Muhammad
Mohammed for the Oral History Project Muslim in Minnesota archive at x
bog University. Could you please introduce yourself starting with your full
name?
MM: Th... Show more
FG: Hello everyone, my name is Fatima Gele. I'm a student at expert
University. It's April 8, 2021 and I'm here today with Muhammad
Mohammed for the Oral History Project Muslim in Minnesota archive at x
bog University. Could you please introduce yourself starting with your full
name?
MM: Thank you, Fatima. My name is Mahmoud Osman Mohammed.
FG: All right. Let's begin by telling us a little bit about yourself?
MM: Well, I am from Somalia, but was born in a line, which is a city in the
UAE. My parents entered the diversity visa lottery program. And luckily, my
mother was randomly selected, which granted her and her immediate
family receive the US Green Card. I am a husband and a father of a
seven-month-old son named Suleyman. I've earned a master's degree in
school counseling from the University of Wisconsin River Falls. I am a new
school counselor at Roosevelt High School, which is a great high school.
And I'm a part-time program director of youth and performance at the
Somali Museum of Minnesota, which is one of the best nonprofit
organizations out there.
FG: Interesting. How's your family life? Is it a big family or a small one? Do
you have any siblings?
MM: Yes, I have a big family. I am one of six. I have two brothers and three
sisters. Additionally, I also have one stepsister and three half brothers. I'm
grateful to still have my mother, my father, my grandmother, and my aunts,
all in my life.
FG: Okay, in terms of your religious upbringing, what was your childhood
like?
MM: I've had a great childhood. Of course, there were ups and downs. But
for the most part, I had a great upbringing. As a child, I was taught to have
a close relationship with Allah. And to know that he will always be there for
me.
FG: Okay, where did you leave and go to school? What was your
experience like as a Muslim student in school?
MM: Good question. I grew up in Houston, Texas, and attended some
Elementary, starting with fourth grade. Then after that was middle school,
and high school, all in Houston, Texas. My schools were located in a
low-income neighborhood, which has its ups and downs. I was one of the
only Muslim students in my elementary and middle school days. In high
school, there were a lot more Muslims, Muslim students, which made it
easier for teachers and school staff to learn about our religion. And let us
stay far away from the school cafeteria when we were fasting.
FG: So now you mentioned that you grew up in Houston, Texas. How long
have you been here in Minnesota?
MM: I've only lived in Minnesota for about seven years. My family and I
moved from Houston, Texas, to Minneapolis, Minnesota simply because of
opportunities. It wasn't easy finding or keeping a job in Houston as a young
Somali man, I mean, Houston. had its other advantages were, you know,
living with affordable. But there was a lack of opportunities for someone like
me. Yeah, and they’re just weren't any opportunities for advancements or
growth. I am not speaking for my Somali peers who still reside in Houston.
But this is based on my experience. There was a well-established, you
know, I always I’d, Minnesota, and I was so drawn to it. Because there was
a well-established Somali community in Minnesota, who successfully
worked their way up and contributed to the success of Minnesota. Um, and
I just, I was just really attracted to that I was drawn to it, and amazed by the
good work of the Somali community in Minnesota. And I wanted to be a
part of that. And I am so glad that my family and I made the move here.
All right. So as a child, what did you want to be when you grew up?
MM: Um, I used to say that I wanted to be a teacher, when I was a child,
shows to always go around the house, telling everyone that I'll be a
teacher. But around the time I was a teenager, I changed my mind and
wanted to be an actor. I was really interested in performing arts I loved
even as a little boy, I would gather my siblings, and have them act out a
scene from a movie. And I've always enjoyed it. And in these plays, that
we've acted out, I've always had scenes where we've even done songs
where we've done some dancing. So as a teenager, I said, You know what,
I want to become a famous actor, just like Denzel Washington Will Smith,
you know, and all the other great actors and somebody moved to
Hollywood. Um, my family, though, didn't really approve of that, and instead
encouraged me to become a pharmacist. They really thought I would be
wasting my time with this whole acting world acting profession, and that I
should get that I should go into the medical field, or, or and especially,
become, specifically become a pharmacist. After taking my pre-pharmacy
courses, which I've spent years doing, I knew this wasn't the career for me.
So I searched and searched and searched for a career that suited my
interest. And after a long search, I decided to become a school counselor.
Now, let me go back, because during my high school days, I really never, I
don't remember sitting down with the counselor. So I've, I've been so
frustrated after high school, I've spent a lot of time, money, and energy. I'm
figuring out what it is that I needed to do. And I am grateful that after
spending so many years searching, that I've actually found that I finally
found what was best for me, the career that suited me, and that was
becoming a school counselor. No, I did not I did not really mind. on what
level of counseling, whether it was elementary, middle school, or high
school, as long as I was making a difference, and being impactful to the
youth, that's all that mattered to me.
Wow.
FG: So how did your life change after you came to Minnesota?
MM: Um, well, I am grateful to now live in Minnesota. I got to take
advantage of all the opportunities that were available for me. I really don't
think that I would have really reached as far as I did. If I was still living in
Houston. I got to work for the Somali Museum, which was founded by my
father. And I got the opportunity to help develop one of the best programs
for the Somali Museum. I have that program is the Somali museum dance
troupe, which is a traditional dance program. So, to tell you a little bit about
the Somali museum dance troupe. It's made up of young men and women
who not only study Somali traditional dancing every Saturday from four to
six but also perform them out for the communities. We've traveled and
performed in so many venues, and so many cities such as Houston, Texas,
San Diego, California, Columbus, Ohio. Grand Forks, North Dakota,
Virginia, we've got to perform in Seattle, and all across Minnesota, from
Wilmer to St. Cloud to Rochester, to Faribault to E men, Qaeda, you name
it, we've performed all across Minnesota. And yeah, I am I'm, I think it's
being a part of the Somali Museum. And having to develop that program
means a lot to me, because we've touched so many people, not just locally,
but around the world. The following museum platform has allowed me to
expand my ability to successfully teach people about the culture, our
culture. And I've also gotten to, we've gotten to me and the dance troupe
and all the other staff members of the museum, we've got an opportunity to
put a smile on the faces of many by entertaining them. And more. I got the
opportunity to become a teacher as well. I taught I've taught at Wellston
international High School, which is a great, great High School. majority of
the students that were enrolled in this high school where students who've
only been in the country for a few years. They had limited knowledge of the
English language, but they were some of the resilient most resilient, and
hardworking students that I've ever worked with. They were juggling their
schoolwork and at the same time, working at night, working long and hard
hours to provide for their families back home. Um, yeah, and they’ve
worked twice as hard as everyone else. And for that, I'm really proud of
them. I was responsible for Welstone international High School, I was
responsible for teaching a college counseling curriculum for high school
juniors and seniors that will support them in applying for best-fit colleges
and universities. In addition to teaching, I work closely with academic
teachers, parents, students, universities, and more to ensure our students
are equipped With the knowledge and tools they need to successfully be
enrolled
and to thrive in a college until they graduate. Um So yeah, I'm, I was very
lucky to work with these students to work with the teachers at Welstone
international high school with the principal with their system principal with
the other mental health professionals, such as the social workers, and
counselors. And I've all have that has been one of my best experiences, I
made sure that students evaluate various post-secondary degrees,
careers, and institutions. And at the end of the year, my goal was that they
each chose the career that was the best I mean, the call the career that
was the best fit for them, the degree that was the best fit for them, and the
institution that was the best for them. I also got them to evaluate what a
good resume is, and a cover letter.
A through A, through a mock interview process. And as a result, 98% of the
students of seniors graduated from high school 94% of them applied to
college before they graduated. And 24% of the seniors were granted a
scholarship. So we've had good results, especially with students who are el
English language learners. Yeah, so, if it wasn't for my move to Minnesota,
I don't think any of this would be possible.
FG: Very good, So, um, what is the most beautiful places you have ever
visited? And what was it like?
MM: You know, I visited a lot of beautiful places. One that I can remember
is visiting California. I have visited many cities in the state of California,
such as Los Angeles, San Diego, and more. And I was just in love with it. I
loved the great variety of food. They had everything they're like you could
find any type of food. And the quality of the food was great. It's a natural
beauty. From the trees to the beach. It was just stunning was beautiful. And
of course, the entertainment. Like I told you earlier, I'm into Performing Arts,
I'm into entertainments and arts. And I think they have I mean, come on,
they have Hollywood. So I've really enjoyed the entertainment scene.
They're
FG: interesting. What person had the most positive influence on your life?
MM: I besides Malcolm X, who I've looked up to my mother, father, and Big
Brother have been the most influential people in my life. My mother always
taught me to give back. forgive others, even if they're wrong, be kind to
people and pray when things aren't going your way or going right. My mom
was a caring person and just an amazing, amazing woman who has
sacrificed a lot for us. My dad taught me about work ethics,
and to be brave in this world. As you can see, there's so much happening
in this world.
And it's very important to be strong and brave. I respect his hard work and
accomplishments and I am lucky to work with him at the Somali Museum of
Minnesota. Last an I was my brother, I respect my brother's positive
attitude. You know, that my, my entire life. My brother has never said
anything else. To me, never a curse word. He's the one person I know that
have never cursed at anyone. What do we just pretty impressed with with
everything that could go on in this world? So yeah, I really respect his
positive attitude. I respect his patience. I respect his loyalty and his
compassion. And I'm really grateful, really, really grateful to have all three
of them in my life.
FG: Okay, what path did religion play in your family?
MM: Actually, it's Islam has taught us there in life, we will be tested. And
then when you are tested, you seek help from God. You seek help from
God through patience and prayer. That teaching has helped us through a
lot in life and made us rely on and love our Creator, Allah. Islam also taught
us to have love and sympathy for all humanity. Which is why we can
coexist. You know, in such a diverse country. We can coexist with anyone
regardless of their background, race, and religion.
FG: So what does being Muslim mean to you? And what are some of the
biggest misconceptions about Muslims?
MM: Well, Islam means peace. It means love, compassion, generosity,
brotherhood, and sisterhood. Do you know? Islam, for us, is a way of life.
And there is there, of course, are lots of misconceptions. One of those
misconceptions is that Islam is not peaceful. It's not a peaceful religion.
And I want to really clarify this because I've, I was raised as a Muslim man.
So I've lived all my life as a Muslim. And I can assure you that the Islamic
religion his Islam is peaceful, it's peaceful. In the Islamic religion, it is
absolutely forbidden to discriminate against others based on their class,
ethnicity, religion, and also their gender. That is exactly what most Somali
people practice. The actions and beliefs of violent groups
do not represent a religious religion, that that we practice. So, and it doesn't
help, you know, it doesn't help when you have,
especially in the past, lots of movies that portrayed us as terrorists, villains,
and they just brutal people. Some of those films I'm talking about are
Captain Phillips, and Black Hawk Down, and a few others. And it really
didn't help. And that didn't sit too well with me. That when people formed,
formed an idea of what Islam was like. When they really didn't know how
peaceful it was, so yeah, this is what being a Muslim meant to me and I'll
go ahead and repeat that. Islam is peace. It's love. It's generosity, it's
compassion. It's all about brotherhood and sisterhood. And yeah, and I'm
and I love being a Muslim man. Yeah.
FG: Is there anything else you would like to say?
MM: Well, we live in such a wonderful country, a country that allows
freedom, a country that is well established. And that gives us access to
health and education and so many other great things. But the United States
is becoming more right racially and ethnically diverse. So it is likely that
you'll be working with or be classmates with or be neighbors, with people
from different cultures. So it's important to have some perspective and
understanding of their cultures. Whether it intertwines with the religion or
not doing that having some perspective and understanding of their culture,
and about them will make not only this country but the world a better place.
All right. Thank you very much for being here with me.
Thank you, Fatima, for having me.
FG: Today is Thursday, April 15, 2021. My name is Fatima Gele. And I'm
here with Mohammed Mohammed for the oral history project in Minnesota
archives at expert. University. So Ramadan Mubarak! how's your day
today?
Ramadan. Mubarak, my day is going well. Thank you for asking.
FG: Great. So just going back a little bit about what you said earlier in the
last recording. You mentioned that you moved to Minnesota because there
were so many opportunities available. So tell me more about this?
MM: Well, what I meant is well, the more of us here, the better the
opportunity. So I'll repeat that again. So the more of us here, the better the
opportunity. Somali people in this state are united. They're strong and
hard-working immigrants or citizens who operate many businesses, and will
most of the time offer employment opportunities to their own. Somalis
played a huge role in the Minnesota capital recovery and the local real
estate market. I've also noticed that many non-Somalis will hire Somalis for
the benefit of serving their soul Molly clients, patients, or students since
there are misunderstandings and miscommunications between them due to
language barriers and cultural differences. For example, let's just say
there's a school of 1000 students and half of them are Somali. It's likely that
the principal of that school will hire several Somali staff members to support
Somali students and to help bridge the gap between the Somali students
and non-Somali students and staff at that school. So that's what I meant by
Yeah,
FG: Interesting. I have never been to any other state than Minnesota. So
I'm glad to hear that. Next question, what was your religious life? like
growing up in Houston, Texas? What congregation? If any, did you attend
each celebration? The way Muslims organized to come together during eat
prayer? How is that different from Minnesota?
MM: Yeah, that's a great question. Fatima. So, in Houston, Texas. Houston
has a large Muslim population. The biggest gathering, I remember are the
times we attended, eat prayers at the convention center. Events. Were
organized by all Muslims, and events are all-inclusive. The only difference
in Minnesota is that the majority of the Muslims in this state come from one
nation, which is Somalia. We have a large established Somali community in
Minnesota.
Great. So with this, did your family have any special traditions such as
things that they did on holidays? Or birthdays?
Yes, my family and I just like almost lumps, celebrate eat and run mother.
Also for Molly's love going to cultural events that include entertainment. So
I organized one of the biggest events of the year, which is kind of a
corporate entertainment event where we showcase Somali culture whether
it's dancing, poetry, theatre play, a kids fashion show, you name it. You we
showcase your all and we've had sold-out venues for the past seven years,
almost every year for the past seven years. So that shows you how much
Somalis love their culture. Besides each celebration events and cultural
event that the Somali museum showcased here in Minnesota, the Somali
independence day festival is a very popular celebration.
FG: That's good. The next question I will have is with student involvement,
as you talked about working as a college and careers teacher and then
becoming a high school counselor. What was your experience like
transitioning from teacher to counselor?
MM: Yeah, good question. So, when I was a high school teacher, I used to
teach certain subjects to my students inside of a classroom. As the
counselor, I deliver counseling services to students, and work with them,
one on one, one on one, or in a small group. So I'm a licensed school
counselor, who qualifies to address the academic career, and
social-emotional development needs of all my students, regardless of their
race, religion, and ethnic background. I believe that I do a lot more work as
a school counselor. Then I did as a teacher. And with and by the way, both
professions. The goal for both professions is to help your students succeed
in school and outside of school. So counselors and teachers have the
same goal. We will Want to see our students be successful? And there's
nothing more that I would love than to work with students and see them
achieve their goals. I am glad I was a teacher before becoming a school
counselor. Because I learned so much about classroom management
strategies, such as setting clear rules and boundaries. Also, I can
empathize with how teachers feel when they are faced with challenging
times, such as grading, lesson planning, teacher-parent conferences, and
so much more.Okay. How will people describe you?
Well, I think that people would describe me as an optimistic person,
someone who is creative, someone who's imaginative, and an ambition
person. Additionally, they would probably say that I'm dynamic and full of
energy when leading people, especially the youth. Yeah, they they would, I
think they would describe me as all that I've just mentioned. And also, I just
have this cultural. What do you call it? Well, I do have that cultural
competence, where I have a gift in seeing the potential in people and
naturally have that ability to connect with them. Regardless of who they
are, or what their cultural or ethnic background is, I just have that gift. And
that just natural ability to connect with anyone, especially the youth.
FG: That's good. What is your goal in the future?
MM: In the future, I aspire to someday work as a school counsellor on an
international capacity. Why? Because I believe that many children all over
the world lack the proper emotional and psychological and social support
that affects their development. So I aspire to spread my knowledge and
expertise to other counsellors or teachers worldwide, to help them shape
the positive emotional and psychological development of the children that
are around the I think we are so grateful that school counsellors are well
respected in the United States. We play a crucial role in a student's
development in all levels, whether it's an elementary, middle school, or high
school, even in college, so I really want to push other counsellors and other
teachers out there, or educators to help students and support them
emotionally and socially and emotionally. And hopefully, I will play a huge
role in doing that. Well,
FG:thank you so much for being here today.
Oh, you're so very welcome, Fatima. I really thank you for for interview for
choosing me and and for interviewing me.
Show less
Speaker : Abdul Artan
Today is the 27th of April 2021. My name is Salwa Hassam. This interview is for the Muslims in
Minnesota projects for Augsburg University. If you could introduce yourself to the recording and
say when and where you were born.
Bismillahi Ar Rahman Ar Raheem. My name is... Show more
Speaker : Abdul Artan
Today is the 27th of April 2021. My name is Salwa Hassam. This interview is for the Muslims in
Minnesota projects for Augsburg University. If you could introduce yourself to the recording and
say when and where you were born.
Bismillahi Ar Rahman Ar Raheem. My name is Abdul Artan. I was born in Somalia, the district of
Kismayo. January 1 1967.
Thank you. To begin, can you describe how life was for you growing up in Somalia and Kenya?
I was very young. When I was born in Somalia, I cannot recall so much. What I know is our,
family, back then were people who used to have animals, I mean, cows, sheeps and goats. So
those were, I'll say we were nomads or pastoralists. And that was the, the day to day work that
we used to look after those animals. The stock. And that is as much as I can remember I can
remember thick grass and vegetation. And when I was young, but then I moved to Kenya, and
that is why I started my primary education. And I went to secondary after which I moved to
South Africa.
What would you name your biggest accomplishments?
The biggest accomplishment is going to school by then, which was not a norm in the sense that
kids of my age, were never going to school or sent to school by their parents. Instead, there
used to be herdsman. And I say I will say that was one of my biggest achievements.
Can you recall any specific events from your childhood that you would say shaped how you
approach the world in general?
I cannot recall specific event but I can remember as we used to move from place to place with
our hearts inside of greener pastures. I can remember a night, whereby we moved from a
certain area to another place. And what happened is, I slept out of the house. And then I'm in
the middle of the night a lion came. And I was almost taken by that lion, but it never happened.
So those are some of the scary moments of our life. But then we move back to the townships
where schools and normal life was taking place.
Now tell me about your transition from Somalia and South Africa to the United States.
By then we moved to because of the the difficulty in Somalia and the Civil War, we move from
Somalia, first, then to Kenya, then to South Africa, where we thought it was a place where we
could get a better life and some sort of tranquility. That is where we started our life again back
normal life. We own some shops, of course, which was not easy. It was a difficult life. Because
there were also some how do I say, people are the the citizens of South Africa, the South
African citizens by then never used to like the foreigners, particularly the people from the
continent of Africa. And we were targets that whereby we were resettled again to United States
of America.
How has Islam influenced your life?
I was born Muslim. And all our life. We grew up in areas where the majority were Muslims and it
is our way of life and it's our way of life, our way of life. And we were taught, from a young age,
how to read the Koran, and the Prophet's way of life. And we grew up with that till today.
What hopes do you have for the next Muslim generation in Minnesota?
It's very bright indeed. People in Minnesota, this big Muslim population, particularly the East
African population. And then we have couple of challenges, but I would say, the prospects, good
prospects, are bigger than the challenges, cultural challenges the mainstream American way of
life, the Islamic way of life. But at the end of the day that balances out and we will be, we will
have a generation that has both the formal education and Islamic education.
Who are three people in history you admire most and why
The Prophet alayhi salatu salam was a great leader. Who we follow his way of life. I will say that
is one of my that that shapes my life. Secondly, the parents who brought me up and thirdly the
journeys that I had to from one country to the other, that also shaped my life.
Great, thank you so much. Thank you.
Show less