Aisha Sow 0:04
I'm Aisha Sow, I'm a part of the oral history project for Muslims in Minnesota at Augsburg University.
I'm here in St. Paul, Minnesota, interviewing Valerie Shirley. So sister Valerie, if you can introduce
yourself to the recording by saying your full name when and where you ... Show more
Aisha Sow 0:04
I'm Aisha Sow, I'm a part of the oral history project for Muslims in Minnesota at Augsburg University.
I'm here in St. Paul, Minnesota, interviewing Valerie Shirley. So sister Valerie, if you can introduce
yourself to the recording by saying your full name when and where you were born.
Valerie Shirley 0:23
I am Valerie Shirley. And I was born in (Southside) Chicago, Illinois. And {censored}
so, saying that you're were born in Chicago, Illinois. What? What experiences has that impacted on your
life?
Well, growing up in Chicago, it had good times and bad times. We grew up in the inner city, Chicago and
in a really poor neighborhood. It was really crime ridden, drug ridden. If you didn't have a lot of money,
you couldn't really live anywhere safe in Chicago and my mother was very poor. Growing up in Chicago
was tough taught me to be strong, but I had a very loving mom who protected me and protected my
brothers. Um, I have four brothers and two sisters, one sister on my father's side. So she didn't grow up
with us. But she did grow up in Chicago not too far away from us. My mother protected us and she taught
us how to love and how to keep ourselves safe. So it wasn't always bad.
Aisha Sow
What lessons that you learned from your mom do you think have the biggest impact on your life?
So the biggest impact from my mom, I would say is two things, the gift of literacy, and the gift of
unconditional love. My mother only went to eighth grade. She was born in a time she was born in the Jim
Crow Era. And that was a time where you could easily fall through the cracks for a black person get an
education wasn't that important. nobody really cared if you dropped out of school. So my mom dropped
out of school at a very young age. But she somehow knew it was really important for me to go to school.
And it was really important for me to learn to read, and she taught me how to read at a very young age. I
can remember reading to my mom, at three years old, I would be reading the newspaper to her, and she
would correct my articulation and tell me how to say this sounds and she gave me phonemic awareness.
And it turned me into a person who loved reading. So going to school only till eighth grade. I don't know
how she knew it was so important for me to be in school and be smart and learn how to read but that's
something she gave me a passion for learning and passion for reading. The second thing was
unconditional love. It was like family first, family over everything. And she made sure that she always put
us first even over herself. And when anybody in the family was in trouble, we all bonded together.
Because that's what our mom taught us to bond together to take care of each other. And no matter what it
was like you always love family, no matter what they can go through hard times, things can happen that
seem really bad. And they can make you angry, but you still love them and you still support them no
matter what. So those are the two most important things that my mom gave me. A love for literacy and
unconditional love.
Aisha Sow 3:39
That's amazing. So, knowing that you grew up in Illinois, how did you get to Minnesota?
Valerie Shirley 3:47
Well, that's an interesting story. So I grew up in Chicago, and I had two daughters when I was in my mid
20s. And like I said, I grew up in a really crime infested drug ridden neighborhood. And teen pregnancy
was just off the charts. And just anything that you can imagine that our social ills that happened in
poverty stricken neighborhoods. And I used to tell myself that I had to protect my girls from all of the
negative, negative ways that society could impact them because I had seen too many victims of society.
No matter how hard you worked to raise your kids safely, somehow they were lost to tragedy or teen
pregnancy or substance abuse. And I remember saying that I need to be I need to have my daughters not
be a part of the world. Know about it and understand it but not get lost in it. And at the time, my
children's father explored Minnesota a friend of his had moved to Minnesota, and was telling them how
nice it was and how you don't need a lot of money to live in a safe neighborhood in Minnesota and how
the public schools were so much better than Chicago public schools. So it was actually due to my
children's father that I moved here. I was a student at Northeastern Illinois University at the time, and he
convinced me to move to Minnesota telling me that it was a better place. And even though my roots were
deep in Chicago, and all my family was there, I said, Okay, I'll give it a try. And packed up and moved to
Minnesota and he was right, some much better place to raise kids. It was so much easier for me to protect
my kids here than it was in Chicago.
That was in 1998 when I moved to Minnesota,
Aisha Sow
Wow. That's when my parents came. Was the transition between coming from Illinois to Minnesota a
hard one? Or was it relatively easy in your opinion?
Valerie Shirley
It was relatively easy in my opinion, because it was a nicer place to live. I think the only odd things about
the transition was that it was a little bit of a different culture. Chicago is big city fast living and Minnesota
was kind of small town compared to Chicago, even though it's city you know, and it's urban. But it was
very different. And I remember standing on a bus stop here in Minnesota, and to get on the bus. There
was a very nice straight line in order to get on a bus and that didn't happen in Chicago, you just bum rush
the door in Chicago, and if you do first when they get there, you get off the bus. So there was no order
organization like that. And I can remember having lived here, maybe one or two months, and I was
standing on the bus stop, and I was the only person there. And this guy came up and started talking to me
and he was talking about the weather and baseball. And so I've got my Chicago mentality on and I'm like,
oh, Lord, he's about to rob me or he's about to try to do something wrong. So I strap my purse around my
whole body and put it behind him making sure he can't snatch it. And then I stood and ready stance. So in
case I needed to fight, I was all ready and guarded. And he was just he kept chatting. And I was thinking
to myself, what is this dude up to? I was, you know, not really listening to him. I was just ready for
something to happen. And then he looks up at the bus stop sign and says, oh, the 22 doesn't stop here.
Wait, I'm on the wrong stop. Well, nice chatting with you. I hope you have a great day. And he walks
away. And I'm like, hey, wait, was he really Just being nice to me. And that taught me something about
the difference of the culture. I was like, oh, Minnesota nice. It really is kind of nice, I guess, you know. So
the only transition was being able to let my guard down a little and not know that everybody that
approached me with small talk without the get me because in Chicago, that's a red flag, get ready for
something bad to happen. But other than that, it was, um, it was relatively easy.
I think another difficult transition, I guess was that in Chicago, racism and discrimination is very much
alive. It is everywhere in the United States. But in Chicago, you know, who does not like you? It's very
clear, you know what neighborhoods not to go in. You know, what white people don't like black people.
They're very open and clear about it. In Minnesota. All the white people act like they like you no matter
what. And then behind your back, they do things like get you fired. And, you know, and do things to like
harm your family, you know, maybe not physically but socially and emotionally. So that was a difficult
transition. I thought that so many white people were my friend until things happened like me being
targeted at my work for being myself. And, you know, if I acted too black and I didn't code switch, and so
that was a little bit of a difficult transition, transition, just having to play this political game of knowing
who I can be myself around and who I can't. So other than that, everything was pretty, pretty easy.
Aisha Sow
Um, so just a little background story have, have you in your family been Muslim for your whole life or
was it later in life?
Valerie Shirley
So for me, I became Muslim later in life. I actually became Muslim one year After I moved here, maybe
about one year after I grew up Baptist Christian, and for the most part that Baptist Christian was
something we put on applications because we didn't go to church very often. When I became an adult,
more so when I came about 16, I really wanted to start to explore my religion, which was Christianity at
the time. You know, teenagers have this time of storm and stress and turmoil and you feel like nobody
understands you and just everything's horrible. So I was going through that time, my teenage years, and
my my brother, who is now an ordained Christian minister, I can just remember him saying, you need
God in your life. You need God in your life whenever you you know, whenever you are feeling hopeless
or helpless, just open the Bible and read it. I can remember him telling me that so many times, and he, my
brother, was really my father figure. Our father was not in our lives. And so I looked to my brother and I
really respected him and trusted him. So, and I would do what he said, I would pick up the Bible when I
read it, and lo and behold, my heart would be lightened, and I would feel guided, and I would know what
to do, and I wouldn't feel so hopeless. So I've decided to start going back to church, and, or going to
church because I can only remember going once as a little kid, but I started looking for a church that I
could go to because people, Christians look for a church home. And so it's like, I'm going to find a nice
church I can go to and couldn't find anything that I was really very interested in. Churches would turn me
away because I wore pants or I would find that people were very gossipy and you know, very, like
backstabbing and it was just like, I'm like, these are not believing people. You know? That's how I would
feel like that's not how God fearing people are supposed to act. So what I decided to do was like, I'm just
going to read the Bible from cover to cover, I want to understand it myself, because I would. So I started
reading it. And then I had questions. So I was like, I really need to go back to church because I got to ask
pastors to explain some of this stuff to me that I don't understand. Went back to church and started asking
questions, but I was met with a lot of negativity, they were like, you don't question the Bible. And that's
the devil making you ask all these questions. In retrospect, I think they just didn't know that I answered
them because they weren't like theologians. They weren't like Christian scholars, you know, they were
just ministers or you know, leaders of the church and stuff. So, you know, people would always say, you
need Jesus, that's the devil in you. And so that ran me away from church again, and I was like, You know
what, I'm just going to ask God to help me understand it. And I read the Bible from cover to cover and I
Um, one thing I didn't find was Jesus being crucified. And I always thought that was just the most
horrible story of like, you know, why would God allow Jesus to be crucified? And how is God and Jesus
the same? You know, it was just that whole Trinity always had questions about it and nobody could
explain it. So I read the Bible from cover to cover and that led me to studying other religions. You know,
I was like, You know what, I want to study Judaism and I studied that and then either like, you can't
become Jewish. Unless you were born and went to a Jewish mom, like, okay, can't do that. I studied. I
mean, I studied with Jehovah's Witnesses. I studied Buddhism and Confucianism and I just started to
research all these old religions and one common theme now mind you, I studied everything but Islam.
Why? Because I lived two blocks away from temple number 73. The Nation of Islam and the fruit of
Islam paraded our neighborhood. And I knew them well. I respected them, they protected us, and they
were very respectful. But they were always telling me that the white man was the devil. And they told me
I couldn't eat greens and sweet potatoes, I'm like greens and sweet potatoes is what my mama raised me
on.
I'm not giving up greens and sweet potato you know, so it was really odd so I thought I knew what Islam
was. I didn't know at the time that that was a sect. That was a sect of Islam. I thought that they were you
know, genuinely This is Islam. So I didn't bother to study that because I knew what that was about. And
over, studying all the religions, I found one common theme is that everyone believed in a higher power. It
was all about faith and forgiveness and mind and body and spirit and keeping the body clean, keeping the
heart clean and generosity and I was like, every religion says this So I was like, You know what, I'm not
going to label myself. I'm just a believer. I'm not a Christian. I'm not a Buddhist. I'm not you know, I am a
believer. So I started studying metaphysics. And I thought I had it, you know, I thought I knew what was
going on because I was like, I'm going to become one with the cosmos. And um just so happened that my
first husband took his Shahadah. And I was happy for him. You know, I thought he was like, lost because
I was like, God didn't make the word religion. That's a man made word. So, I was like, you just have to be
a believer. And I was like, okay, you're Muslim huh. Okay? I'm like, I'm happy because he was agnostic
before. I'm like, I'm just happy you believe something. So that's great for you. And, lo and behold, I
moved here to Minnesota with him. And I met a lot of his Muslim friends at the University of Minnesota,
because I entered the University of Minnesota to finish my degree. And I went to what they call I think
it's Islamic Islam Awareness Week now or something like that they have it every spring, but I think it
might have might have been the same thing back then in 1998 or 99. And there was a lecture by a brother
and I remember it was Muhammad in the Bible and Jesus in the Quran and, and that was very interesting
to me because I already read the Bible, from cover to cover. I went to that, and everything that he talked
about what Islam was, was what I believed, and I couldn't deny that this is something that is calling me, I
went home that night, and I had all these weird dreams people chasing me with Bibles telling me, what
are you going to do about this? What are you gonna do? And I was like, I mean, it was like, it was really
odd. And I woke up the next morning and said, I need to become Muslim. And I took my Shahada by
myself, I picked up one of those little pamphlets that said, how to become a Muslim and, oh, take a bath,
so I ran my bath water, you know, make ghusl and said my Shahada. And there it was, I became Muslim
in 1999.
Valerie Shirley
Yeah, so that was a long story.
Aisha Sow
So that kind of piggybacking off of that, seeing that when you came to Minnesota and you learned the
difference between how people in Minnesota act before versus people in Chicago, do you, do you think,
what's it called? Your Muslim identity affected any way that they interacted with you or you were a you
weren't that expressive yet? Yeah.
Valerie Shirley
When I first became Muslim, I really only hung out with Muslims. So I didn't have a lot of connect to,
like just the mainstream community of other religions, because I became Muslim. And I was hanging out
with the Muslims at the university. And then I started teaching at Al-Amal school. So I was working with
Muslims going to school with Muslims living at home at Muslims. Because my husband was Muslim and
our kids were little they were 11 and four, so they automatically became Muslim.
So I didn't notice much interaction from the outside community for a number of years. until I started
working in public schools, when I started teaching in public school districts, then I was very expressive
and I'm very outgoing person. And I'm pretty aggressive actually. So when people would say things, I
would automatically correct them and people always would ask me a lot of questions. So I was always
happy to answer their questions. And so I just spent a lot of time given dawah, but I didn't.
Not a lot.
Just I don't know I think Allah protected me honestly. Because, like all my life, even if I wanted to do
stuff that was bad, somehow Allah pulled me out of it, without me even knowing. I mean, I would try to
go hang out in bad places, and somehow one of my brothers would catch me or something would happen,
and even here in Minnesota, as an adult, I would have friends who were not so savory, but they were kind
of fun, those kind of friends, you know, you shouldn't be with them too much. And I would hang with
people like that sometime and they would just disappear from my life.
Aisha Sow 20:16
Hmm
Valerie Shirley 20:16
They would just move or the circumstances in my life would separate me from them, I'd get a new job or,
you know, we just so I honestly feel like Allah has been just protecting me from too much negative
interaction, if that makes sense.
Aisha Sow 20:33
Let's live a very peaceful life.
Valerie Shirley 20:36
I mean, of course, I've have experienced tragedy just like everybody else. But yeah, Islam gives me the
ability to cope with tragedy. So,
Aisha Sow 20:48
So one quick question, what did you study in school?
Valerie Shirley 20:52
I studied Elementary Education when I first started school. Well, actually my first first starting of school
Way back in 1985. And I studied accounting. But then I got pregnant with my first daughter. And I was
like, Hmm, I better finish up quick so I can get a job and I changed my major to secretarial sciences,
sciences because I already had, like a lot of keyboarding and math classes that you need it for that for
clerical work. And then I went to work for a while. And then I went back to school for elementary
education. And I was an Elementary Ed major to become a teacher, and I was a music education minor.
And then when I came to University of Minnesota transferred here, I went right into the elementary
education program with college education, human development, and I was a music minor.
Aisha Sow 21:48
Mhmm
Valerie Shirley 21:49
And I remember being at the masjid and somebody asked me "oh so what are you studying?" I was like,
elementary education and music education. Somebody's whispered, "Isn't that haraam" what you were
like? And so people started whispering, "like I think music is haraam, she shouldn't be studying that".
And so I got this, I got this fear.
And I was like, Oh my god, I don't want to do anything haraam. I'm a new Muslim.
Aisha Sow 22:16
Yeah
Valerie Shirley 22:16
So I just want to be halal that's all I want to be. I want to be right and only do anything that's forbidden.
And, you know, I didn't know a lot back then I changed my major, major in music, and now I kind of
regret it. Because I'm like, you know what? I'll never forget somebody telling me Allah ordered the
destruction of musical instruments. Nobody should be playing music. And I was like, What, really? But
then I thought about it. I was like, if Allah ordered the destruction of musical instruments, guess what,
there would be none.
So it was just really crazy that that impacted me and I changed my major and I graduated with my
bachelor's in elementary education. But I honestly changed it along the way because my son got sick.
Aisha Sow 23:08
Yeah
Valerie Shirley 23:09
He got sick with meningitis and he became deaf, my youngest son, and when he did that, I started taking
sign language in school.
Aisha Sow 23:17
Mhmm
Valerie Shirley 23:18
So that's when I fell in love with sign language and realized that I should do something else. And so I
changed my bachelor's from just being elementary education and I went to my counselor and told him I
wanted a bachelor's in individualized study so I could create my own. So I had changed my major like
several times, so I had all these credits from all these crazy places. And I changed it and got element of
bachelor and individualized studies with a focus on deaf education, elementary education and Native
American history in Law.
Aisha Sow 23:54
Wow
Valerie Shirley 23:55
And then after I did that, I went back and got my masters in Deaf Education and started teaching deaf and
hard of hearing children.
Aisha Sow 24:04
Um, what were there any hardships for you when you first started learning how to do sign language?
Valerie Shirley 24:13
Not really. I absolutely fell in love with the language. And the deaf community kind of embraced me
because whenever they found out that I was learning sign language so that I could communicate with my
son. That was a big perk. And I figured out that early on, I my first sign language class I was an hour late
and went to University Minnesota thought the class started is six started at five. She was like my classes
for I was like, Well, I was hoping I can get a magic number. Now mind you, she's deaf and she's talking
to me through an interpreter. And she was like, "No, I'm not giving out any magic numbers" and my eyes
started to water. I'm really emotional. When she, you know, rejected me like that, and my eyes started to
water and she saw my face. And she said, Just sit down, you can stay here for this first class. And so I
went and sat down. And
as I sat down, she said,
"Now I'm, you know, I'm going to tell the interpreter to leave. Does anybody have any questions?" And I
remember thinking to myself, what she can tell the interpreter leave how we going to learn. The
interpreter laughed, and she started teaching us and lo and behold, it's an ASL immersion class, and we all
learned very easily. And I was just like, wow, this is absolutely amazing. I was just so impressed. At the
end of that class. She called me up and she wrote back and forth to me in English and said, "Why do you
want to be in my class?" And I said, "My son is deaf and I want to learn sign language to communicate
with him" and I handed it back to her, her face turned red and her eyes filled up. And she said, This is
wonderful. I'm going to give you a magic number. You are at absolutely going to be in my class. And I
was like, Whoa, like that holds some weight. So every time I met a deaf person, I was like, I have a deaf
son.
And they were like 'Oh my God, that's awesome.' You know, come to find out.
Out of like all the deaf people, all the deaf people in the US, I guess 90% of that population have hearing
parents only 10% of deaf people have deaf parents. So out of that 90% who have hearing parents, only
10% of them learn how to sign and communicate with their kids. So most of the deaf people in the US
who do not have deaf parents are not able to communicate with their families. So that impacted the deaf
community in a way when they see I'm one of the 10% I'm one of the small people that take the time to
learn how to use sign language in order to communicate. So that's, that's pretty heavy for the deaf
community. And, you know, not saying anything bad about that, you know, 90% of hearing parents that
don't learn sign language, there could be anything that impacts them and make them not be able to learn
it, maybe they can't learn and maybe their cognition is not up to it. Maybe they have two or three jobs and
they're single parents, and they're taking care of too many kids or, you know, it could be any reason
keeping you from doing it. But a lot of parents don't learn sign language. So that was, I don't know where
I was going with that point. But I just remembered that that carried a lot of weight in the deaf community.
That's crazy. I never knew that. So how many of your family members know sign language?
Well, my immediate family, all of us, I came home and taught all of my kids sign language, everything
that I would Learn I would come home from class and then teach them what I learned and we learned
together so that they would be able to communicate with their brother. So, yeah, my oldest daughter,
who's now 32. Her first career was American Sign Language Interpreting. She ate, just having a deaf son
really changed the trajectory of our lives and, and all of his other siblings are fluent. And my current
husband is learning to. He's not quite fluent, but he's doing pretty good.
Aisha Sow
Wow, one impact and just change everything and sometimes it can be for the better.
Valerie Shirley
Yep, absolutely.
Aisha Sow
So now that you have a lot of experience in sign language and your family knows and you've been a part
of the deaf community, do you think it's changed your perspective in any way on how you handle things
in your life?
Valerie Shirley
Absolutely. Absolutely. It has changed the way I handle everything in my life.
I when I started becoming involved in the deaf community was really in about 2006 or seven. I met a
close friend of mine who I had known since I had taken my Shahada. She was really one of my teachers.
She really taught me a lot about Islam and she was a very close friend still is. She has two Deaf siblings.
And when I started learning sign language and my son became deaf. I found out that she had two Deaf
siblings. I didn't know that before. And when I found out she had a deaf brother in a deaf Sister, I was
like, Oh my god, I want to meet them. And when I met them, well, I couldn't meet one because he was in
jail. And when I met the sister, she was a really staunch Christian and she was studying to become an
ordained minister. And I was thinking to myself, how does a whole family of Muslims have this Deaf gal
who's a Christian? And I wasn't looking down on them or anything thinking anything bad, I was just like,
wow, how did this happen? Because I didn't know a lot of Muslims who had people who converted in
their family and I knew all Muslim families and everybody was Muslim.
Aisha Sow 30:30
Yeah.
Valerie Shirley 30:32
And so come to find out, they were not able to communicate with her so they were not able to teach her
Islam. So she was able to learn about Christianity because the church had interpreters. So I was like, wow,
I and she was very, she was not as connected to the family. As you know, a family member could be and I
just thought to myself, I don't want that for my son. I want him to be connected to the family. I don't want
him to feel like he needs to go away from us to be able to learn about spirituality and faith. And I just
prayed I was I just asked Allah to find me some deaf Muslims. I was like, I know there's gotta be more
Deaf Muslims somewhere in the world. And sure enough, you know, Allah connected me with so many
deaf Muslims worldwide. I met a deaf man from Ghana. First, I met a deaf lady from Somalia who lived
here. And the deaf guy from Ghana. I actually met him because a friend knew that I was looking for Deaf
Muslims. And she saw these Deaf guys get on stage at the ISNA convention. And they had interpreters
and she was like, Oh my god, I gotta send this to Valerie. And so when she sent me the video, I saw who
was on on stage with him and I knew Abraham Hooper of CAIR Minnesota and I was like I need to
contact Brother Abraham to find out who those Deaf guys are. And I got in contact with them. And man
that just changed everything. I helped them start up the organization, Global Deaf Muslim. And that led
me to starting Minnesota Deaf Muslim community here in Minnesota because I just noticed, I started with
thinking they need access to Islam, they need to be able to understand the Khutbahs, they need to be able
to understand Islamic classes, so they can understand their Deen, and they can feel connected. When I met
so many people, I just realized that there were so many other needs,
Aisha Sow 32:46
Mhmm
Valerie Shirley 32:47
you know, without the ability to communicate. They didn't even have access to like natural resources like
maybe you came here for you can't even go fill out a food stamp application because maybe you use
Arabic sign language or you don't you gesture and you lip read in Somali and so you can't communicate
with the ASL interpreters and, you know. So that's how MDMC was born really is to open up an
organization that would help the population of death, who have very limited access, they can't even access
American sign language interpreters. So that's how it kind of started and it's just changed my life because
my life is really all about that now, my life is really just, that's where my passion is now. So it's impacted
my life in every way. Like I eat, sleep, drink, dream, live, the deaf community.
Aisha Sow
So I have one teeny question, How did you incorporate Islamic terms into sign language
Valerie Shirley
So learned from honestly there are a few.
Well, there's one guy in particular who moved here from Yemen. And he knows Arabic sign language.
And so we use Arabic sign language in Arabic sign language. There was always terms for things like
Allah and Alhamdulillah and Masha Allah and all those little terms that we frequently use. SuhanAllah,
He taught me the signs for those things. And I've just incorporated those into American Sign Language.
So I use American Sign Language, but when I sign Arabic words or Islamic terms, I use the sign that I
learned from Arabic sign language its every country has its own sign language. Well, not every country I
don't think Somalia has a sign language but most countries around the world have sign language and just
like English is very different from Italian. American Sign Language is very different from Arabic sign
language and it's very different from Italian sign language and Turkish sign language. So we just use
Arabic signs and incorporate it to american sign.
Aisha Sow
So um seeing that the Muslim community here in Minnesota is so diverse. And so you'll have so many
different people and many of them some of them happen to be deaf, how are you able to efficiently
communicate with different people with different cultures?
Well, it it can be difficult sometimes. But there are some deaf here that are fluent in American Sign
Language and also fluent in Arabic sign language. So we use them to help us facilitate communication
among people who don't know about American Sign Language. And most of the people that come here
from other countries, they eventually start to learn American Sign Language and, and then they become,
you know, trilingual as they normally have like their native tongue from their country, they probably lip
read in that language. And then they sign Arabic sign language and and they start learning American Sign
Language here. But we use other deaf to facilitate communication who will know the sign language that
the deaf person uses?
Aisha Sow 36:30
So with the startup of MDMC, were there any struggles that came with it or?
Valerie Shirley 36:40
The struggles are still there. Yes, there have been so many struggles, um, it's
it's really, you know, annual sustainability is always a struggle just financially. It's a struggle keeping the
organization afloat. But internally, unfortunately, there are divisions in the community. And not
everybody in the community wants to support MDMC and, and then there was gossip that flew around
and, and then, you know, conflicts in the community and, you know, then the reputation of MDMC was
damaged and now it's trying to, you know, rebuild its reputation. And so yeah, there have been struggles
for a long time. But because I'm passionate about ensuring the success of this organization, mainly
because my son who's deaf and he's also cognitively delayed, so he's considered Deaf plus. And so with
his additional cognitive disability, that's like a double whammy for him. It's going to be very difficult for
him to Maintain gainful employment. And I want there to be an organization that will support people like
him and help people like him exceed their potential, you know, meet and exceed their true potential
because he can do so much. But because he cannot read and write, his options are very limited. So I'm
passionate about ensuring the success of this organization so that it can serve people just like my son.
Aisha Sow
So what are some programs that you guys have? Because I know the sheroes that you did for PBS, I
believe. I think you talked about something about an alternative literacy program.
Yeah, alternative literacy support is one of the biggest things that we do. Because English is a barrier for
many deaf, not just the deaf immigrants. You know, it's really difficult to learn a language that you cannot
hear.
Aisha Sow 39:06
Yeah.
Valerie Shirley 39:07
So learning English and being able to comprehend it at high levels can be really difficult. So a lotta
individuals in the deaf community will get maybe letters from Social Security or immigration or just from
anywhere, you know, the english is very high level and difficult for them to understand. So what they can
do is they can bring their paperwork to MDMC they set up an appointment for literacy support, and we
will literally read the paperwork or the application or whatever it is for them in ASL. We read it to them
inside to help them comprehend it in their own language. And if it happens to be an application or
something that they need to fill out, we will ask them the questions in sign language and They can reply
to us inside. And we will script it in English and then we stamp it saying that this forum was filled out
using literacy support from MDMC. So that's one of the things we do. And we offers driver's education
when we can, like now we're unable to like offer any services because we've, you know, it's a volunteer
board, and we just been so busy but we've offered drivers and we offered interpreters at Friday prayer.
We offer free interpreting services for deaf individuals who are not able to afford it like if they need an
interpreter for a personal reason that is not government paid. Like if a deaf person goes to the doctor the
federal government requires for the doctor to provide an interpreter or insurance to pay for that. They go
to court or something like that. They are legally, you know, required to be provided with an interpreter.
But there's a lot of situations that organizations don't have to provide them with an interpreter. Like for
example, if they go somewhere to buy a car, the people that are selling them the car don't have to provide
them with an interpreter legally. And so there's so many places. And the Deaf, like I said before, often
can't communicate with their family. So maybe there's a family reunion or family dinner and they'd really
like to chat with people so they can get a free interpreter for two hour blocks to help them access
communication. And we provide interpreting services at community events. We paid interpreting services
where organizations can hire interpreters from MDMC to give deaf access. Yeah, I think that's about
sums it up.
Aisha Sow
Isn't it hard to find interpreters through MDMC or..?
Valerie Shirley
you know it is not we actually have a pool of about 20 interpreters that we can pull from. We have offered
trainings on Muslim sides. And so we have interpreters who have knowledge of Arabic sign language and
American Sign Language, at least to the level where they can interpret for the Muslims at Muslim events.
And so it has not been hard for us to find interpreters. Back in the day when MDMC was first starting in
2013, I was really the only person but as we started to provide trainings and workshops and more people
got to know about us. More people have been willing to work with us.
Aisha Sow
So what are some future plans that the MDMC has?
Valerie Shirley
Well future plans for MDMC, I and the board had been talking about how we can turn MDMC into a self
sustaining organization that has businesses that are Deaf lit, Deaf employed and Deaf run. We know that
English is a barrier, and that for almost every job in America, you need to fill out a job application in
English you need to be able to read and write in English. We know notice that there's only one thing that
is not a barrier is becoming an entrepreneur. So we hope to train the Deaf, Deaf plus, Deaf and those who
are hard hearing on how to become entrepreneurs and business owners and we will use a variety of Deaf
employees. To run the organization with a few hearing employees who are there to facilitate in access to
English and communication with hearing people, and to provide literacy support, so we hope to open
businesses and have the deaf employ themselves.
Aisha Sow
Are you guys going to be working with any other deaf organizations here in Minnesota and maybe even
nationwide?
Valerie Shirley
We hope to we hope to we do partner now with organizations locally who serve the Deaf and Hard
community deaf and hard hearing community. So we Yeah, we partner with smaller nonprofit
organizations who are doing things similarly to us. And yeah, we plan on continuing to do that and
branching out even more.
Aisha Sow
So what are some future plans that you have for yourself?
Valerie Shirley 44:56
Well, some future plans I have to myself so I'm back in school right now I'm in Educational Leadership. I
am currently getting my special ed directors license and K 12 principal license. So I plan to probably go
into administrative, you know, into an administrator position in the public school system. And I hope to
after I get my sped director license and my principal license, I hope to go ahead and get my
Superintendent license. So maybe I will go ahead and be somebody's superintendent. We don't know
maybe St. Paul public schools hopefully.
Aisha Sow 45:41
You're gonna be busy.
Valerie Shirley
I'm going to be very busy. You know, it's either that or MDMC is going to have great success. I pray to
Allah. And then I can just manage MDMC and be the executive director of MDMC and still follow my
passion working with the deaf community, but still be able to pay the bills. That's right now MDMC is not
self sustaining.
Aisha Sow
So knowing that you have so many life experiences now at this point in your life, what is I guess maybe
it's a two part question. Um, what do you say is like keeping you up and keeping you going and what is
the one favorite moment that you've had from all the work that you've done?
Valerie Shirley
Well, what's keeping me up and keeping me going? It's definitely my kids, my family and the kids that I
work for and St. Paul public schools. Kids deserve to have the best lives they can possibly have and
knowing that I can help kids really keeps me going.
I think, a favorite moment that I have, there's so many but I just have to say a recent one, my, my deaf son
turned 18 this April. And I promised that I would take him to all the deaf adult functions that happened. It
was like he's a big boy now I'm going to take him everywhere with me and we just went to a birthday
party of one of our friends, and they had bowling and food and it was just a really a lot of fun. And my
son who is very quiet and has a lot of anxiety. I watched him navigate that room of deaf adults and go
chat with them and ask them to take selfies with him and, you know, just socializing in a way that I've
never seen him socializing before. So that's that's one of my favorite moments seeing my son as an adult
actually having people that he can communicate with people who love him and people who I trust that he
will be able to just build community with.
Valerie Shirley
Favorite for me.
Aisha Sow 48:19
Thank you so much sister Valerie for coming in here today and your story was so awesome and beautiful.
So, um, I hope the best for you in the future that you have so much success and everything that you want
to do with MDMC and anything in your personal life. Thank you so much again.
Valerie Shirley 48:39
Thank you so much.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Autumn Graleske 0:01
Okay, um, welcome. This is an oral history interview for the Muslims in Minnesota project.
Today is Thursday, December 3, and we are talking with Zamzam Mohamed. Welcome
Zamzam. December 5. It is December 5, not December 3. My bad anyways, welcome. If you
could just int... Show more
Autumn Graleske 0:01
Okay, um, welcome. This is an oral history interview for the Muslims in Minnesota project.
Today is Thursday, December 3, and we are talking with Zamzam Mohamed. Welcome
Zamzam. December 5. It is December 5, not December 3. My bad anyways, welcome. If you
could just introduce yourself, your name, age, major.
Zamzam Mohamed 0:30
Yeah, my name is Zamzam Mohamed. I'm 18 years old. I'm from Blaine. I go to Augsburg and
my major is Business Economics.
Autumn Graleske 0:41
Very, very classy.
If you could just say, just tell us your background where you're from, like your childhood.
Zamzam Mohamed 0:50
I come from a really big family. I have eight siblings. I was born in Kenya. So I'm the fourth
oldest. It was pretty nice. We lived there till 2005 and we moved here, September of 2005. And
we lived in Minnesota ever since. And then yeah.
Autumn Graleske 1:10
That's cool, where in Kenya did you live?
Zamzam Mohamed 1:13
I lived in the capital, Nairobi.
Autumn Graleske 1:18
Why did you move here?
Zamzam Mohamed 1:20
Um, so in Kenya, my dad was a teacher and we owned a little radio station. And then my dad
sold the radio station. So he was just a teacher. And he got a job here and my mom was just
finishing her schooling for becoming a teacher in Kenya. And then once she finished she got a
job here as well. So they both moved over here.
Autumn Graleske 1:44
That's cool, that's cool. Um so you went to Blaine high school? I mean that's where I know you
from.
Zamzam Mohamed 1:50
Yeah, yeah.
Autumn Graleske 1:50
Did you like always live in Blaine or
Zamzam Mohamed 1:53
no, I lived in Minneapolis at first. Then we moved to Apple Valley. And then to Rosemount and
then to Blaine.
Autumn Graleske 2:03
So you've been all over?
Zamzam Mohamed 2:04
Yeah, we have. So Rosemont was just way too far from everything. We went to a mosque in
Minneapolis that we drove to every Saturday and Sunday. It's dugsi, which is basically like
church except the muslim version. And it was just too far to drive every single day from
Rosemont. So we moved to Blaine, thinking it would be better and it was but Blaine is just
further from everything else we were used to. But now we got used to it.
Autumn Graleske 2:35
You made like a home
Zamzam Mohamed 2:37
Yeah, I like Blaine much better than Rosemount. Rosemount was very. It was just very, like,
people that weren't very nice. That's it.
Autumn Graleske 2:48
Yeah? Really?
Zamzam Mohamed 2:49
Yeah. They're like just stuck up.
Autumn Graleske 2:53
Is Rosemount like southern?
Zamzam Mohamed 2:55
Yeah, it's like Apple Valley, Eagan area.
Autumn Graleske 2:58
I feel like that's the stereotype.
Zamzam Mohamed 3:02
Yeah, it was very bad. I think I think I used to be like that one time, oh dear. Yeah, I think I said
things like... yeah. Because there everyone was just so. And here I saw more of what reality is
really like.
Autumn Graleske 3:35
Sometimes it's hard to like articulate. I get that. Did you like Blaine better?
Zamzam Mohamed 3:41
Yeah. Definitely.
Autumn Graleske 3:47
Do you remember, you moved to the US when you were five. Do you like remember anything
from Kenya?
Zamzam Mohamed 3:54
Yeah, I remember. I only remember like big things. Not really anything specifically. And I
remember just the house, we used to live in my grandma's house. It used to be our house, and
then my grandma's house was right next door. So my parents were when my dad was at work and
my mom was at school, we would all go over to my grandma's house and stay there and we just
walk there because they're literally next door and then go back home with their parents. So that
was nice. And now it's sad cuz my grandma lives in Kenya still, but she just got approved for her
visa. So she's coming now. She didn't get to come because of the... I almost swore. The travel
ban.
Autumn Graleske 4:35
Yeah
Zamzam Mohamed 4:36
because of Trump. But we finally got around that.
Autumn Graleske 4:40
That's amazing.
Zamzam Mohamed 4:41
Yeah, I know. I'm so excited it took since Trump. No, it took the last year of Obama's
presidency to get her approved and everything.
Autumn Graleske 4:52
That's a long time. And you've been back to Kenya since you moved?
Zamzam Mohamed 4:55
I just went back.
Autumn Graleske 4:58
Really?
Zamzam Mohamed 4:59
Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 4:59
How long were you there?
Zamzam Mohamed 5:00
Two months. Yeah, it was we were in Nairobi and then we went to because we wanted to stay
with family for some. And then the other half we did vacation. But it's really sad because there's
so much poverty. It's really like...the wealth...inequality. Money inequality. It's so like,
obviously,
Autumn Graleske 5:40
There's like the rich rich. And then the poor
Zamzam Mohamed 5:43
Yes, you can see it's so sad when you're going to my apartment. We were driving within the next
like little like they weren't even houses is literally just people who laid stuff out on the ground
and we're sleeping Just like made it all out of like, metal and stuff and you turn the corner and
there's like, super nice apartments. It's like, so obvious and they don't even try to hide it.
Autumn Graleske 6:21
So, you have, you said you have a big family, other siblings. Do you have like a big extended
family as well?
Zamzam Mohamed 6:28
I do. Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 6:29
And they all still in Kenya or have
Zamzam Mohamed 6:33
Now they all live in different areas. We have some Somalia, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland.
Here, Canada. California. Yeah, everywhere. Seattle. It was after it. So my parents were lucky
because they got to Kenya. But when the war broke out in Somalia, because there's a civil war,
my parents then ran to Kenya. Some of my family members weren't very lucky so they just had
to disperse to like other countries. And then they all went to countries they got asylum in. Then
they stayed in those countries
Autumn Graleske 7:15
Are those countries, countries like Denmark?
Zamzam Mohamed 7:16
Yeah
Autumn Graleske 7:17
Sweden, because that seems like, yeah. So your parents originally from Somalia?
Zamzam Mohamed 7:23
Yeah
Autumn Graleske 7:26
Gotcha, then they yeah, left after
Zamzam Mohamed 7:28
Yeah. The war and stuff happened.
Autumn Graleske 7:32
So yeah. Let's talk about more about your grandma in that process of kind of getting the visa.
Zamzam Mohamed 7:45
Yeah, it was when Obama was president. It was like, every time we did stuff there would be like
little things that would come up that we can always get our way around. And then when Trump
became President of the travel ban came in Act. And then there was that little period of time that
it wasn't an act. And during that period of time, things kept moving forward. And then once it did
actually get in place, he once I got up to the Supreme Court, I don't even remember what
happened. He added, like, a couple of countries onto the list. So then they said, Oh, it's not just
Muslims, because now it's not regarding the some countries on the list because he added North
Korea, and I believe it was Venezuela. So then, yeah, after that, since things were on pause for
such a long time. They make you do all these blood tests and like everything over again, and it's
hard because you literally have to contact every single child my grandma's ever had. And like, all
my aunts and uncles are like all over the world. They're all doing their own thing. Like it's so
difficult to read, to get all their fingerprints, like all that stuff. Again, it just too much work. But
we kept doing it and then everything got pause and they told us to stop for like a good three
months. And then just a couple of weeks ago, they told us that they finally started processing the
application again, because her health is such in such a dire situation that she needed to come here
and it's in such a dire situation because of the travel ban. If she would have came here earlier, she
would have been able to get the knee surgery that she needed. But now, she's just lived in that
condition and now it's super bad. So we don't even think she can get the knee surgery. So I don't
know. Hopefully she comes here and she doesn't want to come. So now we have to persuade her.
Autumn Graleske 9:43
She doesn't want to come here?
Zamzam Mohamed 9:44
Yeah, yeah.
Autumn Graleske 9:45
Why not?
Zamzam Mohamed 9:46
I don't know. I think my grandma, my grandma first hasn't really big pride thing. So she's like, I
don't want to go to America. She's like, why would I want to go to that trash country? To be
completely honest. That's what she says.
Autumn Graleske 9:58
Alright
Zamzam Mohamed 9:59
Fine. America we love you.
Autumn Graleske 10:05
Actually. Yeah.
Zamzam Mohamed 10:06
Yeah it's pretty crazy. So
Autumn Graleske 10:11
Well, I'm glad you got that figured out. Hopefully you convince your grandma so she can get the
help she needs. It'd be nice to see her, wouldn't it?
Zamzam Mohamed 10:22
I actually just saw her, when I went back. It was the first time I saw her since I was five.
Autumn Graleske 10:27
Really?
Zamzam Mohamed 10:28
Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 10:28
How was that?
Zamzam Mohamed 10:29
It was emotional, but it was great. I loved it. Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 10:34
I think the relationships with grandparents are always important. When you went to Kenya, for
you because of like the travel ban, were you afraid of not being able to come back necessarily?
Zamzam Mohamed 10:51
I wasn't afraid of coming back because I knew I had every right to be, I was a citizen. I had my
United States passport, so I knew if they tried to keep me from coming back. Yeah, my putting it
in. But I was scared of like, customs and stuff and when they would ask stuff like that because
they knew of when we were going there they asked us why we going when we were traveling.
And so I was just wearing because when you were traveling there we got stopped in security like
three different times.
Autumn Graleske 11:23
Really?
Zamzam Mohamed 11:24
Yeah. When we went from Minneapolis, we got stopped in TSA. They put us in like a separate
room. And we didn't even have like our luggage or anything. We just sat there and later they're
like, okay, you're good to go. And then when we went to Boston, from Boston we would go to
London and Boston they did the little thing where they check your hands for like any chemical
residue, so like bombs and stuff, and they checked like my laptop, everything my phone, my
headphones. I was like, Oh my gosh, we were just on a plane. What do you guys think I did from
the time I flew from the Minneapolis to Boston. And London, they didn't do anything for us.
Fine. And then once we got to Kenya, I was wearing, like, two sweaters and I had nothing under
other than my bra under the other sweater. And they're trying to get me to take it off to search
me. And I was like, I am literally like, wearing nothing and they and it wasn't the thing that made
me mad about it is they didn't even try to do it privately. Like in a separate room. It was in front
of every other person they were telling me to take of your clothes, and I'm like, What the hell do
I look like to you stripping in front of? Yeah, so that was the only thing that really bothered me is
just security bad things that happens to Muslims. But yeah, that's the only thing that really
Autumn Graleske 12:43
I mean, you say it so like, nonchalantly right, but listening to it. That's crazy.
Zamzam Mohamed 12:49
It's so normal. Like, the amount of stuff that happens to us every day is crazy. And like, I used to
be so naive. So no one's ever gonna say anything. And I used to be like, if someone does say
something, though, I will stand up for myself. And then it happened. And I was like, holy, like
God, when it first happened to me. I was like, What the hell? But now I'm like, it's normal. Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 13:18
That's wild. And, so you went to Kenya, how many times have you
Zamzam Mohamed 13:26
I only went that once, yeah, because of like terrorist issues. They're not really having terrorism.
There's terrorism, terrorists, what do you use. There's terrorism happening in Somalia. But some
of those terrorists are coming into Kenya, they traveled between those two countries. So Kenya
is the safest place and there's a lot of gangs too. That's the biggest other thing like when we are
there, we couldn't have like, our phones out and stuff. You couldn't be wearing jewelry like,
outwardly everything started to be like, you had to cover up your little wealth, the amount.
Autumn Graleske 14:09
So that's interesting because you said today such a, I mean, you like walk past people with
houses that are just tin and then down the street there is
Zamzam Mohamed 14:21
Yeah
Autumn Graleske 14:23
So let's talk about more like when you came to America for the first time. How was that? Like? I
mean, you were so young. Did you experience any kind of like culture shock?
Zamzam Mohamed 14:34
I did experience culture shock. I think the biggest thing was just not speaking English, was the
biggest thing for me. I remember is, it'd be like, difficult to communicate with people and say
Hello, and thank you. And people. I just, it was just difficult to understand. Basically, that's all I
really remember. And I used to think what you guys would do would be odd Like, especially like
just the way you guys dress and stuff it wasn't anything weird it just seemed odd to me, because
in Kenya we would always have to leave the house in like our little dresses with scarves on.
Yeah, it was so basic and here everyone was just wearing like whatever they wanted those jeans
you know so I was just like. But that was just for the girls, boys wore whatever the hell they want
to, because you know men are men, are allowed to do whatever yeah. So that was really the
biggest thing and the food I remember like I was sick for like the first couple of months here just
couldn't really eat anything unless my mom made like actual authentic food, but other than that I
couldn't.
Autumn Graleske 15:52
You still like mostly prefer Somali food?
Zamzam Mohamed 15:56
Oh no now, now I could eat anything. I do, Somali food is still my favorite type of food, but I
love American.
Autumn Graleske 16:09
And like, I feel, like I have never been to Kenya.
Zamzam Mohamed 16:13
Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 16:14
Like the weather is it was it difficult?
Zamzam Mohamed 16:19
Yeah, it's not it's really it's really nice. It's very like, mellow I think. I think the Mombasa which
is like the northern part, north eastern part of Kenya, where it's had like the beaches and stuff.
That place is really humid. It hits like hundred and stuff, but other than that, it feels like spring in
Minnesota. Little bit hotter. It's really nice.
Autumn Graleske 16:45
And then Minnesota is like, bipolar.
Zamzam Mohamed 16:47
Yeah, I know. It's so bad. But I went to Kenya, towards the end of the summer beginning not
towards the end of spring, beginning of summer. So Maybe, it's a little bit hotter there.
Autumn Graleske 17:08
And like, just growing up in Minnesota. How is that? Is this, this is normal to you?
Zamzam Mohamed 17:19
I think. I think it was really easy for me at first just because I was really naive to it. I think I just
didn't care. I speak whatever the hell like you can say whatever he wants me, I don't care. But I
think over the years I started to really notice and then it started to bother me. And I think it really
hit freshman, not freshman year, yeah freshman year when I started high school, is when I
started to notice because that's one of the biggest like, event happened, like ever where I was
attacked for being Muslim, but ever since then.
Autumn Graleske 17:57
If you don't mind me asking me, what happened?
Zamzam Mohamed 18:00
Sorry, I meant, I felt like that sounded so bad. But I think I feel like I've told you, but I don't
know.
Autumn Graleske 18:08
You might've
Zamzam Mohamed 18:09
But freshman year when I was on the debate team. On High School, there's this dumb game that
we play called agario. You know that game?
Autumn Graleske 18:17
It sounds familiar
Zamzam Mohamed 18:18
It's like the little balls and you get bigger. Yeah. So the entire team was playing that together.
And this guy on the debate, made it his ball thing you mentioned, he named it the N word with
the ER. And I noticed and I was like, What the hell and I made a big deal about it. And then we
kept arguing about and I don't remember how, but somehow Islam got brought into it. And then
he started talking about the Qur'an and how we were infidels, and how we are going to hell, and
he's super Christian. His mom is I think a state representative or a state senator, really? I don't
want to say the name.
Autumn Graleske 18:56
Yeah, after this I'm gonna ask.
Zamzam Mohamed 18:59
Can you believe And you know, he was saying the entire time he was like, how do you know
about this? He's like, I know about all this because my mom is she goes to dinners with Somalis
who say that? Yeah, like he literally, I know, isn't that and then so basically, why would you go
with the story but he did that and he made a huge deal. And Islam got brought into it and he told
us we were infidels and stuff. And then he told, he muttered under his breath. I'm gonna kill you.
And I was like, What did you say? And he didn't repeat it. And then my sisters and them all got
up and they all came around, because they saw him starting to like he said, yeah, it started to get
pretty violent at this point. He stood up. And yeah, there was another debate guy was sitting on
the other side of me. And he tried to get in between us because the guy was trying to hit me
because I kept arguing with him and he kept getting in between us. He tried to grab a chair to
throw it at me. He tried to throw a chair at me, at Blaine high school. This guy had the audacity
to grab a chair And throw it up and then eventually walk out and do remember, like how the
LARC and the stairs there's, you know that hallway and walk out out of a little computer lab in
the LARC. And he's pacing in the hallway. And then he comes back in and we're all like what
you say? And he was like, I'm going to kill you. And we were like, what'd you say? And he said
it again. And then he walked out and then we ran upstairs to Mrs. Munsch.
Autumn Graleske 20:28
Yeah. I think I think you're fine.
Zamzam Mohamed 20:31
Okay, Yeah. We went upstairs to her and then we told her what happened. And then yeah, it was
just really bad. And then they told us, Can you believe he had a one day suspension? It was one
day and a half because they suspended him fourth and fifth hour. And then the day after the
entire day after. And the school handbook said minimum days for some spin for, oh my gosh, I
cannot talk. Minimum days suspension for a death threat is five days or immediate expulsion.
And he got a day and a half and then when we made a big deal about it to the school. They're
like, they kept saying that, oh, it has to be a learning experience. It has to be learning experience.
And then they told us, they call down other witnesses that we gave them. And then later when I
spoke to all the witnesses, they said they never got called on. When I mentioned that to the
school again, they said, Oh, we actually believe what you guys told us. So we never felt the need
to call down. But then why did you feel the need to lie about it? Yeah, yeah. And then they told
us he'd never be able to be allowed on the debate team again. And then my sophomore year of
debate. Guess who's back on the team.
Autumn Graleske 21:41
That's pretty huge. I had no idea.
Zamzam Mohamed 21:43
Yeah. So I guess I never told you and then he, like later, he always just said stuff. We have a
book of all the shit he used to say, he used to say like, not every terrorist is Muslim, but all
Muslims are terrorists. Yeah, you know. You know, I think you know who she is. She was his
debate partner, and she used to ride the bus with him. And every day on the bus, she kept the
composition notebook to write down every bad thing he's ever said and she filled it up and the
school just still did nothing about it.
Autumn Graleske 22:16
That's...
Zamzam Mohamed 22:17
I know
Autumn Graleske 22:17
I mean, it is Blaine high school.
Zamzam Mohamed 22:19
Yeah, exactly. What do you expect from them? It's a shitty school.
Autumn Graleske 22:26
Like he literally made terroristic threats?
Zamzam Mohamed 22:28
Yeah. He was like, when he was asked about it. He said, I never say I'm going to kill you guys.
All I said is you guys are going to die. Yeah, they're like, if he said you guys are gonna die. It's
not really a death threat, because everyone is gonna die.
Autumn Graleske 22:47
Okay but still, with the context.
Zamzam Mohamed 22:50
Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 22:52
That happened freshman year?
Zamzam Mohamed 22:53
Yep, freshman year and then his older brother is... they're just a very entitled family. The teacher
I mentioned earlier, she teaches, she had his older brother in his class, in her class, and the first
day of school. It's her AP US history class the first day of her class. He raised his hand and he's
like, I want you to know, my mom is in a state Congress. So you might as well just give me an A
in the classroom. I know. And my sister was the TA for the class, my older sister, and he ended
up failing at the end, so... very funny, the way things worked out.
Autumn Graleske 23:34
Well, so that you said that kind of changed your outlook.
Zamzam Mohamed 23:38
Yeah, because, it was like, so harsh. Like, holy crap, I didn't expect that to happen. And I think I
don't remember when Trump election happened, was that our freshman year or sophomore year?
Autumn Graleske 23:50
I believe.
Zamzam Mohamed 23:52
It was our sophomore.
Autumn Graleske 23:53
Yeah, they were running our freshman year. Yeah. And then the actual election happened
Zamzam Mohamed 23:58
Sophomore Yeah, I remember that. That was like the biggest thing, because they happen around
the same time because he, Donald Trump won the election. November of our freshman year,
right. If I remember correctly.
Autumn Graleske 24:16
I think...
Zamzam Mohamed 24:19
and then he was in office 2016
Autumn Graleske 24:23
No, I think he won 2016 November of our freshman year, because...
Zamzam Mohamed 24:29
He won november of our freshman year?
Autumn Graleske 24:31
He won November of our Sophomore year, but they were like running, I think. Oh, I'm pretty
sure he came into office our sophomore year.
Zamzam Mohamed 24:44
Okay, but yeah, but anyway, yeah. The election happened to I think everyone like all the
Muslims in the school felt super uneasy, and not even Muslims. Everyone felt easy because he
first attacked so many different races, so many different religions, beliefs, So many different
things that it was just so uncomfortable at school. I just think everything went downhill after
Grant. Yeah. I said his name so you might want to
Autumn Graleske 25:15
Oh okay.
Zamzam Mohamed 25:17
I didn't finish saying it but after that incident.
Autumn Graleske 25:22
So did you. You saw like Muslims in the school they kind of did, throughout, I mean he was
obviously President then for the rest of our high school years. Do you think that there was kind
of a culture change? Did you feel it? Oh wait, you did PSEO didn't you?
Zamzam Mohamed 25:38
Yeah, but that's what I was gonna say is, like sophomore year, I think everyone just hated going
high school because not only me, there's been other incidents that have happened that the
administration has literally never done anything right, done anything about, so everyone literally
did PSEO because of how much they hated Blaine high school. To be honest, like a lot of my
friends didn't do PSEO because they wanted to, although it was a great experience, and we all
loved it. It wasn't because they wanted to do PSEO, it was I have to get the hell out of Blaine
high school, and the only way I can do it is through PSEO.
Autumn Graleske 26:13
Yeah, because I I just remember sophomore year. And then junior year. I never saw you. Or
Sarah. Yeah. Or you know, Ranad, Yeah I never saw you guys.
Zamzam Mohamed 26:25
Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 26:27
Wow. So, that freshman year incident, that was the biggest thing. Have you ever had anything
else ever happened?
Zamzam Mohamed 26:36
Well, this didn't really happen to me. It happened more to other people. I was, it was last year but
they basically had this little thing that said, ask me about Islam and said like Muslims, Islam, had
things about the prophets on it, stuff like that. And the school told them you can't have that up
because of promotion of religion. And then They had to take it down and they just had to. And
then they took pictures around the school about like the FCA fellow Christian Athletes, whatever
that thing is, they took pictures of that and they're like is this promotion of religion because it
says Christian and then there's flyers around the school that's a Bible study as well. And Bible
implies Christianity so that's promotion of religion as well. So the school denied it all they're like
that's not promotion of religion if you guys want you can do this, this this this this and what you
put it up and then they refused and then I got super mad and I was like, What the hell this isn't
right. And the school knows it's not right. And I talked to them about it and they're basically you
know, they told me they said you're not even a student here, so don't even concern yourself. They
basically, yeah, like what the hell do you mean I'm not a student? Yeah. And I was like, just
because I do PSEO doesn't mean I'm going to let you guys do all this crap that you think is right
and let you guys get away with it because it's not right. And then they, we had meetings planned.
And then I had to cancel one of the meetings because Something came up. And then, like every
other time, he kept pushing it, the principal, kept pushing it. He's like, oh, sorry, I was on
vacation. I just came back. I had meetings, those are these. I'm like any of those meetings on
your schedule is just as important as a meeting I'm having with you. So figure something out,
because I'm meeting with and then in the end, never ended up meeting. But the district ended up
getting involved and the district was like, Oh, actually, you guys are fine to do the poster you
wanted to do initially, there was nothing wrong with it. So you can do it now. But they're like,
we already had the effing event. So there's no use for that poster now. They're like, sorry, but
next year, you could. Yeah, it's not. I know. So. I mean, the audacity to think they were right the
entire time and to speak to me that way. And then eventually the district has to get in and say,
Oh, it's okay. You guys could have done it pisses me off, so
Autumn Graleske 28:57
That's not even like a promotion of religion.
Zamzam Mohamed 28:59
I know, it literally just says ask me a question about Islam like if you really hate it, is it that hard
to just go woop and keep walking
Autumn Graleske 29:05
Exactly and like it's just meant to educate more people, like it's a school, you don't want to
educate?
Zamzam Mohamed 29:12
That's what it is
Autumn Graleske 29:16
I noticed I mean, you guys kept pushing for it and you didn't just like take a you know, you
weren't just like, Okay. That kind of perseverance, I mean, you were ready to fight for this?
Zamzam Mohamed 29:30
Yeah, yeah, I don't, it just bothers me now before I like I never used to care for not politics or
yeah politics and civil rights any of that stuff. I never really cared for that stuff. I always thought
I wanted to become a doctor and I was I ever cared about until the Grant thing happened. And
then I was like, I have to come after you trash people like so that's what I decided like, yeah, this
is what I'm going to do. So that's, yeah, this is in economics, but I want to go into law school
after
Autumn Graleske 30:01
Okay, I see you.
Zamzam Mohamed 30:03
Yeah, but we'll see. So yeah, that really just made me want to do this stuff.
Autumn Graleske 30:12
It's like, people don't really pay attention to politics. Yeah, unless it actually touches their lives.
Zamzam Mohamed 30:19
Yeah. That pisses me off when people say oh yeah, I don't care for politics. I'm like shut the hell
up. Like you're only saying that because you have the privilege of not caring for politics. If you,
if someone said, Oh, if you're white, we're going to take away your iPhone, you would get pissed
Autumn Graleske 30:19
and then they'd be all into politics
Zamzam Mohamed 30:27
Yeah, they'd be like let's go rally right now
Autumn Graleske 30:43
Yeah, alright, I mean I had no idea. I mean talking I talked to a lot of people about high school
and my experience is very different than everybody else's. But yeah, very different. But one
thing we do have a common was lacrosse.
Zamzam Mohamed 31:13
Yup.
Autumn Graleske 31:15
I feel like, well it's not about me. How did you, like why did you join the lacrosse?
Zamzam Mohamed 31:22
My older sister did it
Autumn Graleske 31:23
Yeah?
Zamzam Mohamed 31:23
Yeah, and that's why I did it and I always wanted to do a sport. Volleyball I never liked,
basketball was just eh, soccer nope. Lacrosse seemed like the right fit for me. So I did it.
Autumn Graleske 31:38
You played for your freshman year?
Zamzam Mohamed 31:41
I did freshman, sophomore, a little bit junior, never senior.
Autumn Graleske 31:46
And you enjoyed it?
Zamzam Mohamed 31:47
Yeah, senior I only came, senior year you were varsity goalie, right?
Yeah, I just came to watch your games. And I coached with Haley. Just because I love Haley.
Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 32:02
Okay
Zamzam Mohamed 32:03
Yeah, so it's fun.
Autumn Graleske 32:06
I loved freshman year B-squad with you guys
Zamzam Mohamed 32:10
It was so I just across just because it was entertaining and fun, and it was just a way to stay fit
without actually thinking because I don't really care about like, physical, other than just staying
healthy. Yeah, so it was my way of staying healthy without doing anything.
Autumn Graleske 32:29
I can't remember. It was one of those freshman, freshman or sophomore year, but Ramadan fell
within the lacrosse season. How? How was that?
Zamzam Mohamed 32:42
Horrible. I remember, it was just so bad. There's like, it's just super hot and then you're running
and you're exhausted. And I remember it was towards the end of finals week for us, because we
finish the school year earlier than Blaine high school does. So we had finals and Ramadan and
lacrosse, so we like study, Oh hey it's time to go out. It was horrible and I remember Junior year
I had like a hardest biology class with a friend. So we were both like thinking out on biology
while we were playing lacrosse and you're starving as well. But it was also nice because I think
we got closer, the Muslims on the team at least got closer because we would hang out after and
get Iftar together, it's when you break your fast. So that was nice, but.
Autumn Graleske 33:30
You get closer if you battle adversity together.
Zamzam Mohamed 33:34
Yeah, pain.
Autumn Graleske 33:37
I mean, could you have like, I suppose didn't have to necessarily practice or
Zamzam Mohamed 33:44
Yeah it's, in Islam it is mandatory to fast Ramadan if you can fast it. If like, I think under the
right circumstances you wouldn't be allowed to, for, if you really cared about lacrosse that much.
I think it's all personal. If you cared about the process, which I do that important to perform your
best at that game, then there'd be nothing wrong with you not fasting that day and just making it
up later. That's all you have to do. So, if you miss a day, you just have to make it up, but you just
have to be sure you're missing it for the right reasons. So there'd be a couple of games that I
really want to play really well so she wouldn't fast that just because you know, I mean, so it's just
your personal but you have to make sure you're still being dutiful. I don't know what'd you say?
To your religion
Autumn Graleske 33:53
I think that works, I think devout is too extreme.
Zamzam Mohamed 34:42
Yeah. Because it's not. Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 34:45
Yeah. I get what you're saying
Zamzam Mohamed 34:46
Yeah, to your religion but also
Autumn Graleske 34:48
Gotcha, well lacrosse was, I was always like, I felt, I don't know if bad is the right word, but I
was like damn, you guys are strong as hell. And then sophomore year we had gym class together.
Zamzam Mohamed 35:12
Yes, and we were weight partners. That was so fun.
Autumn Graleske 35:18
The best
Zamzam Mohamed 35:19
You were like my favorite person ever. You were like one of the very few people I can get along
with. There's very few people I can get along with.
Autumn Graleske 35:25
Yeah, we had the best conversations.
Zamzam Mohamed 35:25
Yeah, it's really weird. I don't know. I think like just the person I'm friends with has to really get
me and not even get me well, I just have to be able to have a normal conversation with you. And
I feel like I can't do that more.
Autumn Graleske 35:25
Really?
Zamzam Mohamed 35:43
I love your hair clips by the way, sorry I
Autumn Graleske 35:46
Thank you, Um,
I think we were playing tennis one time. We just had like an entire conversation while we're
playing, playing tennis about um, I don't know I was just asking you questions about Islam
Zamzam Mohamed 35:59
Yeah, I like where we can have like just normal conversations during the normal stuff. Yeah.
Autumn Graleske 36:05
I mean, I don't know if we really played tennis
Zamzam Mohamed 36:08
We did whatever we wanted, who was our gym teacher? Lachinski? She loved us.
Autumn Graleske 36:13
Yeah. So overall, how would you rate your high school experience.
Zamzam Mohamed 36:21
Zero, I hated high school. Well, the Blaine High School portion, freshman and sophomore. The
junior and senior year were great. Freshman and sophomore year I hated it. Gosh, I wish Blaine
High School would thrive into much beautiful. A prettier school. Better people, better
administration.
Autumn Graleske 36:45
Well now you're here and I totally didn't know you were here. I'm so glad you are because
honestly I missed you.
Zamzam Mohamed 36:51
I missed you too, I miss like, I just think High School is great because there's just so many
people that I just had such nice friendships that then I lost all that when school started and
everyone like moved. A bunch of people who go out of state. I thought sorry. I thought you were
going to go out of state for school?
Autumn Graleske 37:16
Honestly, I couldn't.
Zamzam Mohamed 37:17
Oh okay.
Autumn Graleske 37:20
Why did you choose Augsburg?
Zamzam Mohamed 37:23
Um, it was between Augsburg and the U. And I just wanted a smaller school. But I'm
transferring next year. Yeah, just because for what I want to do for law school, first Augsburg
doesn't have a law school. So Hamlin and the U both have law schools. So either one of those,
probably the U because it has a better law school.
Autumn Graleske 37:47
You want to go to law school, what do you want to do? Like?
Zamzam Mohamed 37:51
I don't know. So I work at Best Buy right now. And I have an internship there for the summer
just for like a business internship. But once I start law, they have an internship. I could do there
too. But I'm really stuck on whether I'm going to do corporate law or civil rights law on the side
or the right side of corporate. So I don't know because corporate law really brings ingood money,
but it's really dirty. Yeah. I mean, it's a dirty business, but as long as no human rights laws are
violated.
Autumn Graleske 38:32
As a lawyer, I guess that's what you can do.
Zamzam Mohamed 38:35
Yes.
Autumn Graleske 38:36
Try your best to make sure
Zamzam Mohamed 38:37
Yeah. And I think that's been most importantly is I have morals that are keeping me from
wanting to do corporate law just because I know how bad things can get in corporate law with
the things that happen. Or... and I've done like CAIR and stuff, internships for them, but it's just a
very you know, I mean, I always want to be in an area that, I just want to work somewhere fast
pace. You're doing stuff all the time and feel like that's a corporate environment. Civil rights is
just
Autumn Graleske 39:12
I guess it depends
Zamzam Mohamed 39:13
Take it as it comes
Autumn Graleske 39:14
Yeah, you can't really... something happens. You can control it.
Zamzam Mohamed 39:20
Yeah. And you only get paid based off of your clients and I feel like if you're doing civil rights
or, yeah if you're doing civil rights you're not going to have that many clients because you're
working with low income. Yes. So I think probably what I would do is corporate law and then do
pro bono civil rights.
Autumn Graleske 39:25
You want to make bank, yeah, also make an impact.
Zamzam Mohamed 39:50
Yeah. And I think the way I don't even think the people who need good lawyers can afford them.
And I'm going to be a great one. So yeah, because they all get like public defenders who are like
working for the state, that get paid nothing, who don't really care about the cases they're working.
So yeah.
Autumn Graleske 40:18
I think you'd make a great lawyer.
Zamzam Mohamed 40:20
Thank you. I really hope I do. We'll see. Debate Team set me up. I love debate.
Autumn Graleske 40:32
I don't know if, Honestly, I don't know, does Augsburg have like a debate?
Zamzam Mohamed 40:36
Yeah they do.
Autumn Graleske 40:37
I know the U has a ton. I'm pretty sure I saw a sign for debate. So are you interested in going
back into that?
Zamzam Mohamed 40:45
I don't think I wanted to do university debate. I would love to do mock trial, ugh, if I found a
school that had a mock trial. I would jump on it because in high school I did it. I took a debate
with Mr. Connors if you know him, and then I took it with him for two years because he had the
debate one and honors debate. And I freaking love that class and the second trimester we did
mock trial. So, I don't know. We'll see. So I want to go to law school out of state, hopefully. And
if I do, Howard, is where I want to go and they have a mock trial team. Yeah, or Harvard, but Ivy
League is dirty business. don't like them. All universities are dirty in some way, but Ivy leagues
are getting really dirty.
Autumn Graleske 41:41
Alright
Zamzam Mohamed 41:43
Big goals, we'll see how it goes. Yeah, everything under anything undergrad. I don't really care
for, but grad school I want to go somehwere big.
Autumn Graleske 41:53
Yeah, you got big, big goals.
Zamzam Mohamed 41:56
Yep, sadly, but I think It's better because law school I have a lot of time. It's like professions like
these, you have a lot of times to work up to those goals eventually, you know. So eventually I'll
get to an Ivy league, eventually you'll see my name at an Ivy league.
Autumn Graleske 42:16
I expect it
Zamzam Mohamed 42:17
Thank you. You better expect it. If you don't I'll be disappointed.
I'm really loving this pen, kind of entertaining. I might have to keep it.
Autumn Graleske 42:32
You might have to keep it? Well is there, I mean, I think we got some good stuff
Zamzam Mohamed 42:40
Yeah that was awhile
Autumn Graleske 42:42
Do you have anything else that you'd like to talk about? Or I mean?
Zamzam Mohamed 42:51
No, I'm just gonna say if you haven't registered to vote, register to vote!
Autumn Graleske 42:58
Well, thank you Zamzam
Zamzam Mohamed 42:59
Yeah, thank you
Bye, guys.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show less
Oral History Transcript
Rachel Ferkin 0:00
Hi, this is Rachel Ferkin with Amaiya Zafar at Lindell Library at Augsburg University. The date
Today is November 22 2019. This is for the Muslims and Minnesota Oral History Project put on
by Augsburg University. I'll just start out by asking for y... Show more
Oral History Transcript
Rachel Ferkin 0:00
Hi, this is Rachel Ferkin with Amaiya Zafar at Lindell Library at Augsburg University. The date
Today is November 22 2019. This is for the Muslims and Minnesota Oral History Project put on
by Augsburg University. I'll just start out by asking for you to please tell me your name and
when you were born.
Amaiya Zafar 0:20
My name is Amaiya Zafar. I'm born in May of 2000,
Rachel Ferkin 0:25
Yeah. Could you tell me a little bit about about where you were born and what your childhood
was like?
Amaiya Zafar 0:32
So I was born in Faribout because my mom grew up south of the cities. And then I grew up
mostly in St. Paul, but we moved like every year so like I grew up, and my friends make fun of
me like "You lived everywhere that's in Minnesota". I used to live there, I used to live there, I
used to live there because I kind of grew up around St. Paul Minneapolis area.
Rachel Ferkin 0:53
Do you have any family traditions that occurred through that process of moving so much?
Amaiya Zafar 0:59
I mean, Like a tradition to moving? Like the family just to help everybody move and stuff like
that, I guess.
Rachel Ferkin 1:06
Mhmm
Amaiya Zafar 1:06
But wherever we move to we had people so it wasn't like I was starting over. I went to the same
school a lot of the time, even though I had moved because it was an Islamic school. So like, it
didn't matter where in the cities I lived. And then wherever we went, you know, like, there's
mistakes everywhere, so it doesn't really matter.
Rachel Ferkin 1:23
Mhmm. Do you have any siblings?
Amaiya Zafar 1:27
I have a little brother or little sister so.
Rachel Ferkin 1:30
Yeah, and where do you live right now?
Amaiya Zafar 1:32
I live in East St. Paul.
Rachel Ferkin 1:34
(Acknowledgement) East St. Paul. (Pause) What's your relationship with your parents? And how
did they influence your life?
Amaiya Zafar 1:39
Um, I'm really close to my parents. I think more so my mom, but my dad like he... My dad is my
stepdad. So he raised me since I was three. But he's like my, I have his last name and like he
raised me right. But I think my relationship was close to my parents because we have like a
strong relationship with like trust and like, you know, we just get along well.
Rachel Ferkin 2:06
Yeah. Do you have an example of how that trust works with each other?
Amaiya Zafar 2:06
If I, So like I box so if I say like, I don't want to go to this tournament, or I really need to go to
this tournament, they just trust what I say like without question. If I say I need to go to this
tournament, they're like, "Okay, how can we raise the money for you to go". Like, we have the
type of relationship that's like, they know I'm an adult, and I can make my own decisions. And
then we just like, work off of that.
Rachel Ferkin 2:27
Yeah. What is community to you? You mentioned boxing. How did you get into the boxing
community?
Amaiya Zafar 2:36
So I started boxing when I was 13. So I've been boxing forever. (chuckles) And my dad wanted
me to, like have a community you know, like, he wanted me to play some type of sport. He was
like, "You should try fencing". I said, um, I would rather get punched in the face then fence
(makes funny face). So he's like, "Um okay boxing, if you want to get punched in the face so
bad". And so I used to fight in school when I was little, but never like where I thought I would
box. So then when I started going to the gym I was like, "Okay, I like this, let's go", like I fell in
love with boxing and like the community and everything. That's where I grew up. I grew up in
the boxing community. So, I have other communities that I've more branched into since I got
older. Like I have friends in school, the university and like I have like my close friend group, but
really I grew up in was in the gym.
Rachel Ferkin 3:25
Mhmm
Amaiya Zafar 3:25
So that's like my community. First I feel like is the boxing community.
Rachel Ferkin 3:30
Mhmm, Do you have any person who influenced your career in boxing, anyone who made a like
really meaningful relationship with you to help you in your career of boxing?
Amaiya Zafar 3:41
Um, I would say my dad because he used to drive me to the gym. So I was 13 when I started. So
like he used to driving to the gym every day. And like, even when I didn't want to go, he'd be
like, "I just worked like a 12 hour shift. You're going to the gym. Like if I say you're going,
you're going because I worked and I'm still going to take you". So he kind of, you know him and
then also my coaches like they really like put that like discipline and determination in me and
like raised me who I am as a person.
Rachel Ferkin 4:08
Mhm, yeah. (nods) In 2016, I read that you were banned from a national championship fight for
wearing a fullbody uniform and a hijab. How has that influenced your career to where it is right
now?
Amaiya Zafar 4:25
So up until 2017 I wasn't allowed to fight at all with my hijab. And so I, in Minnesota, it was like
I never got disqualified so I didn't know if I would actually was not allowed to fight or not
because they just wouldn't scheduled at all. They'd be like, you're all like my coaches give them
like, "I have a girl this weight and age" and they'd be like, "Oh, her. We're not even gonna try
and make a fight for her because we're gonna fly somebody in and then she's not going to be able
to fight". So we went to Florida, for the Sugar Burt National Championship because we were
like, maybe they will let me fight. Here (Minnesota), they're just bias like they will let me fight
there(Florida), you know?
Rachel Ferkin 4:58
Mhmm
Amaiya Zafar 4:58
So we went to Florida, and I ended up getting disqualified. And that is what kind of, so when I
got disqualified the, my opponent was made like unopposed champion. And so she had she got
the belt, and she had given it to me as like a, like we didn't even get a chance in the ring. So like,
That's not fair, you know.
We didn't get a chance to fight for so just have it because that's not fair they should let you fight.
And when that happened it like went viral and everybody was like whoa, they just disqualified
her. And I think her giving me the belt is really what, if they hadn't given me the belt, if she
hadn't given me the belt I wouldn't have stood out. Nobody would have noticed. They will just
would have been I just got disqualified again, like you know.
Rachel Ferkin 5:17
Mhmm.
Amaiya Zafar 5:38
After that it was like, that was in like December or November of 2016. And then in April 2017,
the USA Boxing changed the rules. So that means I could fight locally like not in like ranking
tournaments, but like in local fights. I could fight or like the ringside tournament I could fight
because it doesn't rank me as a fighter.
Rachel Ferkin 5:59
Mhmm.
Amaiya Zafar 6:00
And so I was like taking all the fights I could get. I was like, "Okay, I can fight Look, I don't
even care. I'll take all the fights", you know. So it's fighting people bigger than me, people
smarter me, everybody. And then when the in 2000-actually this year, in beginning of this year,
the National rule changed, so that I could fight like Golden Gloves and anything that ranks to
me.
Rachel Ferkin 6:22
Yeah.
Amaiya Zafar 6:22
So, yeah, it's been a long (laughs).
Rachel Ferkin 6:26
You had mentioned that you went viral during this time. What was that like? What was your
experiences in going viral? Were you asked to do a lot of interviews, a lot of public appearances.
Were you on the news?
Amaiya Zafar 6:37
Yeah, I was on the news a lot and I got a lot of interviews so I got a lot of experience because I
was young. I was like 16 so gave it me a lot of like, life experience, going places and like, like
driving to NPR by myself or WCCO, or myself and going and doing interviews and like, just
learning how to carry myself in the world. Like that's why I say boxing raised me because the not
only in the ring but like as a person. And like when it was, everything was blowing up. I was
like, I wanted people to know the story because I wanted to fight. That's all I want people who
were like your social activist, what I was into the like, I would go to marches and stuff, but I
didn't really see myself as a social activist as more as like. I'm a fighter, and I've been a fighter
since birth, and I just wanna fight, you know. I'm, you know, I was like, "I'm gonna fight you
outside the ring until I can fight in the ring".
Rachel Ferkin 7:25
Mhmm, Did you ever find any of that intimidating?
Amaiya Zafar 7:29
Um, no, I kind of got exhausted from it. Like, at first I was I was not intimidated by any of it,
like interviews. on the news. Any type of me didn't bother me. I was like, "Okay, let's go. I want
it". I was like, outgoing, like, it's cool, so whatever. But then, after years of saying the same
stories over and over again, I got tired of it because I didn't see anything changing. Like after the
USA boxing went and changed the rule I was really happy. But then it went like two and a half
years before they changed the national rule. And I didn't think the national rule is going to
change. So I got tired of talking about it, because even my coaches were like, "They're not going
to change the international rule". Like that's an international body. That's the Olympic like,
people, they're not going to change it. And I was like, like, you know, the Nike came out with
their Nike hijab, and I was like, you know, something might change, but I kind of got tired of
talking about it. Because I was like, you know, nothing's coming up. And I just started seeing
more people talking about it. And I was like, let them talk about it. I've done it long enough, you
know?
Rachel Ferkin 8:31
Mhmm
Amaiya Zafar 8:32
So it's not like I was intimidated, but I was kind of just like, I want to live my life now.
Rachel Ferkin 8:37
Mhmm, Yeah. What are your goals right now? Like, what is your goals in boxing?
Amaiya Zafar 8:42
My goals in boxing, I when people ask me that, I always say the same thing I say (chuckles),
you'll see what my goals are when I accomplish them. Because if I have goals, I will accomplish
them. I always tell people that because I don't like to put like, my dad really put out there like,
"She's gonna go to the 2020 Olympics didadida". And I didn't like that because I was like, I
knew that with the timeframe that they gave me, I wouldn't be able to go to 2020 Olympics,
considering the international rule had just changed this year. And that means I'm going against
people that have 40, 50, 60 fights or more, and I only had 10. So it's like, they didn't give me
enough time to like catch up, you know?
Rachel Ferkin 9:20
Mhmm.
Amaiya Zafar 9:20
So, I just always just say, like, if I have goals, I'm gonna accomplish them. So like, just don't
sleep.
Rachel Ferkin 9:25
(Both laugh)Yeah. See, you had mentioned a lot about how like the international rules is a big
thing for you. How do you think that's influenced the boxing community as a whole particularly
female fighters such as yourself?
Amaiya Zafar 9:39
Um, I think people don't really notice.
Rachel Ferkin 9:41
Mhmm.
Amaiya Zafar 9:41
How much it when I went to Nationals for the Golden Gloves. I saw a girl like in hijab fighting
and I was like, "Yo, That's dope!". We were out here. She's like, "What are you talking about?
Like, I've never had a problem fighting I just fight", and I was like, "Oh" cuz I changed the rule
like cuz I didn't get to fight like, you know, And she didn't even know that you know, so I was
like, I think is dope that she may even have to struggle with it like she has to just fight. So I don't
think people really see how it changes the sport because people just live to it. They just expect
that they'll get to fight and they get to fight you know. Which is how it should have been, even
for me, but sometimes I'd be like, like, "Yo, we are out here and we are fighting together. This is
about it!" and they just be like, "Oh, okay" (laughs). But some people like when I used to be in a
gym, people would be like "You're trying to change my sport that's disrespectful, didadia". And
I'm like, "It doesn't affect it doesn't affect anybody". You know? It just means, I guess, if I know,
it only affects my opponent because now she gets real competition like that's it. (chuckles)
Rachel Ferkin 10:42
Mhmm. Yeah. We're going to switch just a little bit and I want to ask you a little bit about your
faith. So what does your faith mean to you? What does Islam mean to you?
Amaiya Zafar 10:53
My religion comes first in my life. So even above boxing. Like boxing is like what like I said
what raised me, but religion comes first. So like in Ramadan when I'm fasting, like, I work my
gym times around when I'm fasting so that I don't have to bring my fast or I'm, like I know my
capabilities. So I won't like go to the gym in the morning and then be fasting the rest of the day.
I'll go right before I break my fast, but things like that like religion comes first for me and so like
if I feel like there's a situation that I'm compromising my religion in order for boxing then I'll
step away from it because religion comes first. And that's why I never even considered taking my
hijab off for this sport because, like my Islam is like before everything. Period like boxing,
school, work, everything, it's before everything.
Rachel Ferkin 11:41
Mhmm yeah. Have you had any adverse like relationships that heavily influenced-So if you had
adverse experiences because of your faith and relationships where you've had to step away from
people and be like, No, I have my faith and yet this.
Amaiya Zafar 12:00
A lot of times, well some people just don't respect it the same. So like, I had like a mentor to me.
And I said, like I had skipped the gym one day for like a class at the Masjid. And I said, like, he
called and was like, "Where are you?" And I was like, "I'm at the Masjid". He said, "Oh, there
you go with your excuses". I said, "Excuses!? Like, I will skip the gym every day for the
Masjid". Like I should actually skip the gym more often to go to the ministry because I come to
the gym every day. I go to the Masjid like, two three times a week, that's it. So like, I don't want
to hear excuses. Like this is my excuses. You know, like don't put me in the same box as the
guys that don't don't come to the gym because they have baby mama drama. Like my life is very
different than that. And so if I choose to skip the gym one day, like, that's my decision. And so
I've had a lot of experiences like that where like, they don't understand, like my relationship.
Like they they, they have their own relationship with God and so they don't understand mine.
And so like when I say like, I'm not going to come to the gym because I have to go to the Masjid
or I can't come to the gym because it's Eve like, they don't understand that. I'm like, would you
go to the gym on Christmas? - No, you wouldn't. So like, you know, there's just those types of
like (people), they think of me as like extreme or like, like, too serious.
Rachel Ferkin 13:11
Mhmm yeah.
Amaiya Zafar 13:11
But it's like, that's my relationship with God and mine only. So like, I don't let them speak on that
like my teammates, my coaches, like anybody. On like, if you, you don't, you know you're not in
my shoes. So like, you know, and I had a lot of people that were like, just take your hijab off
even people close to me in the gym. And I'd be like, no. Like, that's to me that's disrespectful.
Don't tell me to take my hijab off, like, just because you don't understand my relationship with
God.
But yeah, that's a whole (laughs and gestures)
Rachel Ferkin 13:11
Mhmm.
What is your relationship with your faith community?
Amaiya Zafar 13:45
I think it's really, that's like as of right now in my life that's my strongest relationship of my
communities. Like my boxing, like the boxing community, that's my family, you know, like the
gym. That's my family. Those people are like, they're everything but blood to me. Those are like
the people I grew up with, but I think, um like, the relationship that's more nurturing and like,
where I feel the most myself right now is like in the Muslim community and like so I work at
Pearls of Hope is an organization that I work at. And I go to a masjid in Brooklyn Park. And like,
that's just like where I'm most happy right now. So I think I would say it's good.
Rachel Ferkin 14:24
Yeah. What is Pearls of Hope? Could you elaborate of like what you do in that?
Amaiya Zafar 14:28
So Pearls of Hope is an organization that was built for high school girls to like, have an outlet,
you know, like we got, we come together every week, and we talk and we like, hang out and
learn. So I graduated from that like two years ago. But now I work there as, I teach them boys
class, like, second to fifth grade boys which is really first to sixth grade.
Rachel Ferkin 14:50
Mhmm.
Amaiya Zafar 14:51
Which is that they have every age in there. So I teach their class. So it started off just high school
girls and then they branched it out to like middle school and high school girls. And then they had
little girls and they had like preschool girls. And then now they're starting the boys chapter too.
So they have like high school boys, middle school boys and then now they have the younger
boys, which is the class I'm teaching. So Pearls of Hope is just like it's like a you could say it's
like a youth group type thing where you just, we come and we learn not like the rules but how to
love our religion, you know.
Rachel Ferkin 15:21
Mhmm.
Amaiya Zafar 15:21
Because everywhere you go like if you go to a Saturday school or Sunday school, they teach you
the rules. But they don't teach you like why to love it and all of that stuff that. I went to pro since
I was a freshman in high school so like that was like, also that's what raised me. You know
Pearls and Boxing. That's really what made me who I am as a person. So working at Pearls now
is like, like, I love it, though. Yeah, it's dope. Anybody you've asked that goes to Pearls will be
like, "Oh my god, it's so fun!"(laughs)
Rachel Ferkin 15:49
Do you have any like close relationships from Pearls? Any mentors?
Amaiya Zafar 15:54
Yeah, my two strongest mentors. I would say is Sister Zakia and Sister Danielle. Like Sister
Danielle moved to Texas last year and I cried so hard. But Sister Zakia. She's like my second
mom. Like, she's literally like my second mom. We fight and argue like, She's my mom. I think I
argue with her more than I argue with my own mom. But she, you know, she looks out for me
and she like, she's very opinionated, which I appreciate. Because sometimes when people are too
scared to tell me something, or to be upfront with me, she's not. And she'll say straight up, like,
no, you shouldn't be in that situation. No, you shouldn't do that. No, you should go do that, you
know. So I appreciate her for that. And then I'll say all of my close friends. I met through Pearls,
like Aisha, like she's the one who introduced us like, some of my best friends and I had met her
through Pearls.
Rachel Ferkin 16:42
That's awesome. Let's see-Are there any things-Let's see. Are there are there any specific
practices within Islam that you agree with more or disagree with and what influences the way
that you practice your faith.
Amaiya Zafar 17:08
I don't think there's anything that I actually disagree withâ¦. Because my, one of my favorite
things about my religion is that if you have a question that will get answered. Like, my mom
used to be Catholic, and she said, what she didn't like was that she would ask a question and say,
"You just have to believe you just have to have faith". But in Islam, if you have a question, you
ask and it will get answered, there's always an answer to everything. That's an explanation to
everything. And that's what I appreciate. Like if I, if I'm wondering, like, Why do I have to do
this? Or why do we do this? I look in the Quran, or I look in the Hadith, in the Sunnah, and I will
find it, you know. And so that's like what I appreciate most and when you have the answers to
everything, everything else comes along. And so like, some people are like, "You don't have to
wear hijab, You don't have to do this, You don't have to do that". And it's like that, like I had this
guy who was a Muslim and he's in the gym telling my coaches "She doesn't actually have to
wear a hijab". And I said, "I with my relationship, with my religion, I believe that I do need to
wear hijab, that's my responsibility". So for you to say, she doesn't really have to, that's
undermining my, like relationship with God. Don't do that, you know, like, don't come between
me and what-you don't get to come, you know. Like that that's not your place. But, like, that's
why I love my religion, but there's like, everything has a reason and everything is like explained
so in depth, like, my brother will ask me a question. And I can give him like an hour long
response and answer every other question that he may have been thinking about to ask, you
know, like, everything is there, and that's what I love the most about it.
Rachel Ferkin 17:11
Mhmm.
Have you ever had moments where you did not have the answer right away, but you were able to
turn to a mentor or a friend and were able to work out those questions?
Amaiya Zafar 18:49
Yeah, there's always Ms. The thing is that some people are like, You're not supposed to ask those
questions that are like, you know, nitty gritty like, you know, you don't ask those questions. But
I've always had people in my life that I consider like, I'm questioning this right now I need you
to, you know, explain it to me in a way that I understand or in a way that like will hit me at my
age and my place in life because you can explain it from your perspective, as a, as an adult that's
like, has five kids, but I might not feel it the same way. And I've always had people that are like,
I might not able to give you the answer right now. But tomorrow, I'll bring you the answer. Like,
I'll go find the answer for you. And I'll bring it to you. And I've had people that explain things in
ways to me that like, really, like, relates to me as a person. And I appreciate that like, there's
always like, there's always something you know,
Rachel Ferkin 19:34
Mhmm, has your family influenced your faith in your relationship to God?
Amaiya Zafar 19:37
Yeah, my family is very like, this is our religion, but your relationship with It is however strong
you want it to be. So mine might be stronger than my sister's right now, but who knows where
she's going to be in a year because that's between her and God. Like that's what my mom's - my
mom and dad have always been like, you know, we give you the tools we give you what we
believe and then you decide, and you can, you like decide your the strength of your like, pull
towards God and you're like. My mom explains it as like a rope. You know, you decide how how
hard you want to hold on to that rope or if you're going to let go of it completely, that's up to you.
And so I've always had that, like I came into it myself, I came into my spirituality myself. And I
really appreciated that.
Rachel Ferkin 20:21
Did you have a specific event that ever occurred which like solidified your faith, or made your
faith stronger?
Amaiya Zafar 20:30
I think I've had things. There's like specific experiences I've had in my life that have like, pulled
me closer to it.
Rachel Ferkin 20:38
Mhmm.
Amaiya Zafar 20:39
And like, I've been really sick. I've gone through things that are like. Some people like, I've seen
my friends go, go through those things and pull away from their religion. And so I see it as like I
could go one way. I could either use this opportunity to become closer to God or I could use this
opportunity to pull away from God and I always choose, like in all situations to come closer
because I think I feel like that's where I'm safest. You know, like, if I'm in this bubble of like,
like, what I feel safe in when I feel safer, you know, it has always been like, so there's like life
events that I've gone through even like with boxing, like, there's been things that I've gone
through that like, just make the relationship stronger because I'm putting a situation where I feel
like that's all I have.
Rachel Ferkin 21:25
Yeah, that's awesome. Man, I was gonna ask a question that I think you answered it. Um, let's
see, I think you might have answered this a little bit, but what is the most meaningful
relationship to you and this could be with God, with, with a friend, or with someone like that? Or
do you have multiple meaning relationships that - meaningful relationships that hold the same
amount of value?
Amaiya Zafar 22:11
I have, I think I have a lot of different relationships that mean different things to me. Like my
relationship with my mom is really close. Because, like, I feel I can really talk to her, you know,
like, she's somebody that I trust and like, if I'm upset about something, I can go to her and talk to
her about it. And she always has the best advice. And then like my best friend, I feel like she, she
like, makes my relationship with God stronger. Because like, I'll come to her and I'll be like, I'm
like, I'll be crying. Like I'm so upset that this happened. And she's like, "Go wash your face and
go cry to Allah, go cry to God because that's who's going to help you". You know, so she gives
me advice like that, that really like hits me and sticks with me. And so I would say like, by like,
friend group that I have, I've never had like friends like that before. I always was by myself, like,
especially like, as a boxer and a girl, like, I had my brothers, those are like my brothers, I grew
up with them- so my brothers, but they're not like my friends, you know, they're not people that I
call in the morning when I wake up and I'm just bored, you know? Like, so I've never had that
type of friend group. And I'd say like, my friends are like, my most important relationships right
now. Because, like, they're helping me like, grow as a person. And like, I don't know, I just really
appreciate, like, the friendships that I have the meaningful relationships that I have with them.
I've never had relationships like that in my life like.
Rachel Ferkin 23:35
Could you give an example of how they help you grow as a person?
Amaiya Zafar 23:39
They just give me room to grow as a person. Like in the gym, I'm a boxer and that's it, you know.
And I kind of - that was my identity all through high school or through like, growing up, I just
was the boxer you know. Like, literally people be like, "Oh, yeah, that's the boxer". And that was
who I was. And so I have like my friend group, they let me be like, who I am as a person, like
they know who I am. They know that I like to sleep when it's cold, they know that I like to, like,
you know, they know things about me that I didn't think people would care to know about me.
Rachel Ferkin 24:10
Mhmm.
Amaiya Zafar 24:11
And so they give me room to grow as a person. And then they just like, they're always there with
good advice and good conversation and good experiences. And like, just to have that type of like,
I've never liked this I like I used to watch like, The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants and be like,
I wish I had friends like that, like I never had. I had my brothers and let's say, you know, and so I
always was like, if I had friends like that, like we could have Sister the Traveling Hijabs, you
know. And now I have friends like that. We're like, we do dumb stuff like that. And it's like, it's
great. I love it. Yeah.
Rachel Ferkin 24:44
You had mentioned like, being a boxer was your identity and your friends see you for who you
are. Do you consider yourself to have multiple identities? Or are you just rooted in one identity?
Amaiya Zafar 24:56
I think my identity is one, because I'm one person. I wouldn't say I'm like, I have multiple
personalities. I was that one, like identity, but within the identity, I have many like, branches,
you know. So I'm a Muslim and I'm a boxer and I'm a girl. And I'm, you know, like, I'm all these
things, and it's hard. There's not a lot of people that are all those things. And so when people see
somebody that's like, unique and different, they're like, they don't know what to do with that. So
like, a lot of times when I go when I go to events, like Islamic events there, that's the boxer that's
the boxer. I'm like, what I'm, I'm a boxer, like I'm A boxer, but I'm so much more than that, you
know, like I'm a person and I'm, like, funny and I'm cool to hang out with and I'm like, you
know, like, I'm a I'm a student of knowledge, like my Instagram. I used to say, hey, Hijab and
Boxer and I changed it because I was like, I'm a student of knowledge, you know, whether that
be boxing, Islam, like history, it doesn't matter. I'm a student of knowledge. And that's like I
would say, that's my biggest identity is I want to learn as much as I can about everything. And
ya, I'm a boxer, I'm an athlete, like, that's a big part of my identity. Like, my friends still know
that about, like, I watch it. I eat really closely and I run five miles like every day. But that's like,
separate. You know, that's just part of my identity. So ya.
Rachel Ferkin 26:16
Would you consider yourself as an activist as part of your identity? You had mentioned how you
talked a lot during your time, as as a boxer talking about overcoming - about overturning that
rule for you to be allowed to wear hijab. But you also mentioned how you got tired of it. So
where do you see yourself in where that stands today?
Amaiya Zafar 26:41
So when I was in high school, I was like, I was like, I'm a social activist. I went to all the
marches, I went to like, like, all types of meetings and all these type of black, black liberation
type things, you know? And that was like a big part of my identity is I want to help change
things. And as I got older, I was like, seeing the same patterns, I was seeing the same things
happen again and again and nothing changed. And I got tired of just, like my coach gave me
advice. He was like, "Pay attention to who you're around, because those are the people that
you're going to be associated with". And so I was sitting in a room and I'd be watching these
people be upset about things that are going on in the world, but nothing change. And I was like, I
don't want to be associated with that. I'd rather like when I have the chance to make changes. If I
have the chance to speak out against something I will. And I will always use my light skin
privilege to do that. But I'm not, that's not my identity anymore. Like that's not my whole
purpose, is I'm not going to sit and talk about how much I hate Donald Trump because
everybody sees the hijab on my head. They know I don't like Donald Trump, you know. So it's
like, I just have, like, my - that used to be a big part of my identity and it kind of got smaller
because I just realized there's so much more to life than being upset. Because ya I'm upset I have
things, like you know, I could talk about police brutality all day. But I don't want to anymore,
you know, I'd rather actually do things that are going to change. Like my uncle works in
Portland. He's like a, I don't know what to call it, but he works with the police as like a, like a
community advocate, you know. So like, if there's an event, he'll go with the police to the event
to like, make sure that they have proper engagement with the community. And so like, that's the
type of stuff that I feel like is real change. When you're actually going into the world of trying to
make change, when you're going to police departments and talking to people. That's what makes
change; not being upset all the time. And so I kind of just, not that I don't have I don't have
problem with people that do that or get upset, you know. Like go ahead, if that's there is an
importance to that, there is people, there needs to be Angela Davis's in this world, you know, but
I just be like, that's not me anymore. I used to be, but now I'm good. You know?
Rachel Ferkin 28:53
Mhmm.
Amaiya Zafar 28:53
Yeah, that probably sounds terrible. But (laughs)
Rachel Ferkin 28:58
Do you think that a form of activism, though, can be through positivity and through working
through the things that you can do?
Amaiya Zafar 29:07
Yeah, right. That's what my dad kind of taught me. And my dad is a community psychologist.
And he always was like, you know, very, "Be the change you want to see in the world, you
know, like attracts like". He's, he's always been like that. And I always was like this, that hippy
dippy mindset, like that's not even how it works. And I still kind of have, I think I'm in the
middle, you know, part of me is like, you know, like, attracts like, you know, if you want to see
change in the world, then go ahead and create it. But then part of me is like, things are not going
to change. So I have that balance of like, I know, I am not like naive to the state our world is in
right now. And I'll always talk about like, the injustices that are happening in the world. But I'm
not like, I don't know, I'm like, I know that my place is not in the White House. You know what
I'm saying? So like, I have friends that are doing that and like, going to DC and like really, you
know like Ilhan Omar. They're like really making change. And I respect that. But I know that me
as a person, that's not my place. Like when I was younger, I used to be like, I'm going to be a
politician. I want to be like a police detective, all those things, but I know myself as a person.
And I know that I can't handle that physically, mentally, emotionally, I can't handle that. So I
leave that space for other people. And I just do what I can do. So I know that like, I can have
conversations with people one on one and educate them on the things that are happening in the
world. And that's where, that's my place. That's where I'm good. You know? And then, like, I
feel like, where I fit in the community, the most helping the community is like with the youth,
because that's. I grew up teaching youth that the Circle of Discipline and at Pearls and like, just
teaching them discipline and respect for themselves. That's like, where I feel like I can make
change. So I stick to that, you know?
Rachel Ferkin 30:48
Mhmm, yeah. Do you ever see yourself going into a career with youth? Teaching youth?
Amaiya Zafar 30:54
Yeah, that's what I wanted. I'm, I'm at a place where I'm really deciding what to do with my life.
But I think that, That's the direction I feel pulled the strongest because like I work at pearls. And
I teach young boys and I've worked at circle discipline since I was 16 teaching, like youth and
women and growth. I was 16 teaching grown men, you know. Like, I've always been like, "If I
have knowledge, I want to share it". Whether it be about boxing, whether it be about Islam, all
those things. And so that's what I, I don't want to be like a traditional teacher, but like, I'd like to
teach extra curricular, you know, like Islam or boxing or that type of stuff.
Rachel Ferkin 31:30
Mhmm.
Amaiya Zafar 31:30
So, yeah.
Rachel Ferkin 31:32
What are the main things that you want to like reach across to your community or to people, not
of your community?
Amaiya Zafar 31:41
Um, I would say like this. Everybody comes from a different place in life, you know. And
everybody, even if they're in the same community, they're at a different place in their life. And
just coming together, you know, breaking bread and being together and learning about each other
is important. As long as you come to each other with an open mind, and you're like, you know,
like, that's, that is community. Community is like, I might be at this place in my life and you're at
the same place and your life, but, we can eat together, we can chill, and we can talk and have a
conversation without an argument, you know? And that's just to me, I'm like, Can we just - I'm
tired of beef. I'm tired of all that stuff. So I do some like, I sound like a hippie now (laughs).
Rachel Ferkin 32:27
If someone were to confront you with more of an opposite approach, what would you say to
them to help change their perspective?
Amaiya Zafar 32:37
I don't say I agree with you. That's cool. That's your opinion. You're entitled to that. I agree with
you. I have my opinion. Like I was saying about Sister Zikia, we had a whole yelling argument
about R Kelly, because we we had pretty much the same like, like, perspective, but it was a little
bit different, you know. And so we had a whole argument about it. And I was like, I hear what
you're saying, I just want you to hear what I'm saying. And I'll respect you and you'll respect to
me. You know, like, my uncle is like atheist to, like, does not agree with religion. He's super like,
like, he will fight with anybody and everybody about religion and all those things, and he just
sounds ignorant, right? But I respect him, like, you have your views, like, and I have mine. Like,
I might not be gay, so technically, I don't believe in it, but I'm still gonna respect you. Just like
you might not believe in my religion, but you'll still respect me, you know what I'm saying? So
it's like, as long as everybody's respectful to each other, we can have those hard conversations.
As long as at the end of the day, we acknowledge that whatever your views are, I don't care. I
respect you as a person as long as you don't, as long as you respect me, you know. There's just
that like, like when I had that whole screaming fight Sister Zikia about R. Kelly. We hugged at
the end, and we was like, You know what? I see what you're saying. I understand what you're
saying. I might not fully agree with it, but I understand your perspective, you know. And it's just
as long as we have an open mind, we can have those hard conversations and not get bent because
of it.
Rachel Ferkin 34:06
Do you consider yourself now more in a mentor position versus a mentee position because of
your knowledge and the way you can approach conversations?
Amaiya Zafar 34:16
I think I'm in that transition states between - I still have I'm, I'm a mentor to some people. And
I'm a mentee to some people. Some people, like I still look up to a lot of people and I have to go
to them with questions. But then I have people come to me with questions. So I'm in between
and I think that's a good balance. There should always, even people who are scholars, they
should be in between. They should be teaching people but also still learning from other people.
And so I think I'm in a good place.
Rachel Ferkin 34:40
Mhmm. What does that transition experience feel like for you? Do you? Is it like, what feelings
come up now knowing that you can make change on younger people?
Amaiya Zafar 34:51
I love that because I I appreciate like, I can be the person that I needed when I was a kid. You
know, like, I see these young girls, and I'm like, I know what I needed at that time in my life, and
I didn't have it so I can be there for those girls, or those kids. I can be that person that they need
in their life. And so I think it's like, is, I don't even know how to put into words like, to be that
person that they need. It's just like, it's priceless.
Rachel Ferkin 35:19
Could you give an example of a relationship, possibly? (laughs)
Amaiya Zafar 35:25
Well, I could say, like, my little sister, like, I am the oldest, and I'm the oldest of my cousins.
And I never had that, like, that close, like, sibling role that I needed in my life. And so I'm, I'm
there for my sister in that aspect. And like, you know, the kids that I teach at Pearls, like, I'm
somebody that they can relate to, even though I'm 10 years older than them and I'm a girl.
They're like, 10 year old boys, you know. But I can still, like they can relate to me and I can
have, like, you know, like, just having that relationship with somebody that you can trust, that's
older than you that's not gonna like, take advantage of that trust is like really important because I
didn't have that. Like I had people that were wishy washy, they were in and all my life where
they like, always, I had people that would like abuse, that power of authority. And that was like
really hard on me as a kid growing up. And so I like being that person for whatever or whoever it
may be. Like, you know, like, anybody that has advice? Like, I'll tell them, I don't know what to
tell you right now. But I could tell you what I would do, you know, so I just like being that
person for people.
Rachel Ferkin 36:31
Mhmm, yeah. Do you have any closing remarks, anything you'd like to share? Just to kind of
close the interview? Anything about yourself any stories?
Amaiya Zafar 36:41
No, I don't thnk so.
Rachel Ferkin 36:42
All right (both laugh). Well thank you so much for participating in our interview project.
Amaiya Zafar 36:47
(Laughs) Yeah.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:00
Hi, I'm Chyanne Phravoraxay. I'm the oral historian for this oral history project.
I'm here with Fatha Ahmed, can you state your full name and your age?
Fatha Ahmed 0:12
Well, hello, my name is Fatha Ahmed and I'm nineteen years old.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:16
So, um,... Show more
Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:00
Hi, I'm Chyanne Phravoraxay. I'm the oral historian for this oral history project.
I'm here with Fatha Ahmed, can you state your full name and your age?
Fatha Ahmed 0:12
Well, hello, my name is Fatha Ahmed and I'm nineteen years old.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:16
So, um, where were you born and raised?
Fatha Ahmed 0:20
So I was born here in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I was raised in St. Paul and mixture with
Roseville and Falcon Heights.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:28
Okay. And was that the same with your family like your parents and siblings or?
Fatha Ahmed 0:33
All my siblings were born here, I'm the oldest out of nine. So and my parents were born in
Somalia. So my dad was born in a city called us Lascaanod. And my mom was born in a city
called Jowher.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 0:47
Okay. And have they told you their story of immigrating here?
Fatha Ahmed 0:55
They briefly told me when I was, a couple years ago, actually, they both fled the civil war back in
1996 or 97. So my mom came 1998 and my dad came- no my mom came in 1999 and my dad
came a year before that. So 1988. And I was born 2000
Chyanne Phravoraxay 1:16
And did they meet here?
Fatha Ahmed 1:18
They met here, yes. They met through mutual friends.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 1:22
And have you ever gone to Somalia?
Fatha Ahmed 1:25
No, I was going to go last summer, but instead I went to Kenya.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 1:29
Okay, so what brought you to Kenya?
Fatha Ahmed 1:31
My mom wanted to move there with my 5 younger siblings. So she wanted to like, have a better
life over there like she did with my younger siblings.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 1:42
So then do they live there now?
Fatha Ahmed 1:43
They do. Yes.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 1:45
How long have they lived there?
Fatha Ahmed 1:47
It's been like six months now.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 1:50
So how was your experience there?
Fatha Ahmed 1:52
It was different. The culture there is pretty different. But overall it was like a nice experience to
see a whole different side of the world.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 2:04
So how was it different?
Fatha Ahmed 2:07
I'll just say like, culturally, they were- I mean, there was different like things like, what was it?
How they like view things differently. Like the president and like how like the laws over there,
just different than here.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 2:26
Can you give more details?
Fatha Ahmed 2:29
I mean, the laws over there really- like when I went there, like, you don't have to drive with the
license, which was interesting. Actually. You don't- there's no drinking age. There's no, like, stuff
like that.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 2:45
Wow. Okay.
Fatha Ahmed 2:46
I know. Yeah. It was really, I mean, it was interesting, but wow.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 2:50
So do a lot of Somalis live in Kenya?
Fatha Ahmed 2:53
There was only- Well, it's mostly Christians. Not Somalis, but there's like fairly good amount
because Kenya is a Christian country.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:03
Oh, yeah.
Fatha Ahmed 3:04
But there's mostly Yeah, there's mostly Christians are like, not that much Somalis from what I
see.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:10
Okay. Are you fluent in Swahili?
Fatha Ahmed 3:15
No. I literally know, like a couple words and that's it.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:18
Oh, okay.
Fatha Ahmed 3:19
I know Somali fluently but not Swahili.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:22
Oh, okay.
Fatha Ahmed 3:23
Yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:23
So then did you speak Somali there then? Everyone knew Somali or?
Fatha Ahmed 3:28
Um, they knew English
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:30
Oh, okay. So you just spoke English?
Fatha Ahmed 3:31
Yeah, because if it was just Swahili then it would be complicated. But yeah, they mostly speak
English and Swahili over there.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:39
Okay. And then how did you learn a little bit of Swahili then?
Fatha Ahmed 3:43
From like meeting different people. Like I know like words. I understand it a little bit. But like
speaking it is just hard.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 3:52
So do you think there's like a drastic change or like difference between Swahili and Somali?
Fatha Ahmed 3:57
I mean there's- Well yeah, actually. Yeah, there is a lot different, because there's like different
meanings to like different stuff and they have different like words that mean the same thing as
Somali, but it doesn't totally mean it.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 4:10
Okay. And um, so you were in Kenya during Eid right?
Fatha Ahmed 4:16
I was. Eid was in the summer so to like after Ramadan, there's an eid and then a month and a
half later there's an Eid so yeah. I celebrated to Eids in Kenya which was, I would say, like that
was like the most fun I like experienced, because they do more cultural stuff in Kenya than in
America, because in America you just go pray and like just go to like, fun stuff. But there like
you like, there's like food, there's dances, there's more like more stuff.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 4:48
Okay, so going back to what you said about your family. Do you think, do you see you and your
dad and the rest of your siblings possibly moving to Kenya?
Fatha Ahmed 4:57
My dad wants to move back home, but for me like it wasn't for me, but I would totally love to
visit. I don't know if it's just because I was born here, that's why it's different? But I don't want to
go over there. Just a vacation.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 5:13
Yeah? Moving on to your early education, so growing up in Minneapolis and like St. Paul area,
Twin Cities, do you feel like you were surrounded by Somali Muslims? Like did you always feel
comfortable?
Fatha Ahmed 5:29
So I went to a public school, kindergarten through senior year of high school. From when I
started kindergarten, there was literally no, like, people that looked like me. It was all like, white,
which was- it wasn't that bad at first, but when I got to like first second grade, like I started
getting questions about the hijab then, it's like it's been like, an ongoing thing like every year.
Like "why do I wear it?"
Chyanne Phravoraxay 5:56
Oh, really?
Fatha Ahmed 5:56
Yeah, I mean, at first they didn't know. They're like- we were all young so they didn't have any
knowledge of like, what the hijab is and why i wear it. But after the years, like starting middle
school, high school, there was more people that like knew why I wore it.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 6:15
Interesting. Okay, so then, um so you said that you were probably the only like, Somali there?
Fatha Ahmed 6:23
Yeah, just me and my one friend. That's it.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 6:25
Oh, okay. So then were there any like Muslims then? At your school either?
Fatha Ahmed 6:28
No, there wasn't. No, I mean there was black African Americans, but not like Somali Americans
or Muslim Americans.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 6:37
So do you remember when you first started wearing your hijab?
Fatha Ahmed 6:40
From the moment I started? Well, it was when I was five or six. Like when I started school.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 6:47
Oh, okay. Is that like, do you have sisters?
Fatha Ahmed 6:51
I have, yeah, three other sisters.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 6:52
Okay, so was that the case for them too? Like that age?
Fatha Ahmed 6:55
Yep. When we started school. Every time we go out, we would just wear the hijab. Like from
what I remember like when I started kindergarten, that's when I started wearing a hijab.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 7:02
Okay, so during like holidays, would you- How would that work? Did your school like
accommodate to that or it didn't follow it?
Fatha Ahmed 7:13
No, they wouldn't allow us to. At first when I was in elementary school they didn't allow us to get
days off, because it wasn't technically a holiday in like the calendar. So we just- I mean my dad
would like talk to the principal every year to like let them know like these specific like kids are
not gonna be able to come on this day, because they'll be celebrating like their holiday. Just like
how the others celebrate Christmas so there's days off, but for when it's Eid like we didn't have
any days off and like we had to like miss class, miss like assignments and everything. We were
behind. So that was pretty difficult for my parents too.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 7:57
So then was that like throughout all your education?
Fatha Ahmed 8:01
Yes. Kindergarten through senior year.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 8:05
When did you feel like there were more Somalis or people of color?
Fatha Ahmed 8:10
Probably middle school. Because I don't know like there was- I started seeing more and more
Somalis in middle school. I thought I wouldn't, because it's still a public school but I did and
senior year was just still a lot of Somalis too.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 8:28
Did you like befriend the Somalis or what was your friend dynamic like?
Fatha Ahmed 8:34
It was like a mixture. Like at first I was friends with mostly whites. And I started going off to like,
Mexican and then Somalis. Yeah, that's like, the culture that I would like to associate with.
Because there was no one else to actually talk to. When I got to like senior in middle school
year, that's when I started talking to more Somalis like people look like me.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 8:58
Okay. And you did mention that, like, people would ask you a bunch of questions just because
they didn't know but have you ever experienced any like, intentionally negative interactions?
Like people saying rude things or?
Fatha Ahmed 9:14
So when I was in fifth grade this one boy asked, he asked what I had in my head. And I told him
like the Hijab like he asked why I wore it. I explained it to him and then he told me, I don't know
why he's like, he told me to like take my towel off
Chyanne Phravoraxay 9:30
Really?
Fatha Ahmed 9:30
Yeah. He said, yeah he said a towel. Or like a tablecloth? I don't know. But it was, yeah. So he
told me take that off and then at first I thought it was just funny. But I started to realize like that
like hurt, so I didn't say anything. But I told my mom and she said, like, like "going to school, it's
going to be like different, difficult for you to like, adjust to wearing the hijab".
Chyanne Phravoraxay 9:54
And what does the hijab mean to you?
Fatha Ahmed 9:57
It means- to me it means to be modest and like, caring about like my religion and like, why I'm
here.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 10:04
So you think that you would wear it for probably the rest of your life then?
Fatha Ahmed 10:08
Yes, for sure.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 10:09
Okay, interesting. And so moving into religious upbringing. Do you think, in your opinion, do you
think your family's more traditional or loose with Islam? Or, like compared toFatha Ahmed 10:22
What do you mean "loose with"?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 10:23
Loose as in, they're not as traditional or they don't follow as much.
Fatha Ahmed 10:28
Oh, yea. I would say my parents are traditional, they're really religious.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 10:31
Oh, okay.
Fatha Ahmed 10:32
I would say they're traditional
Chyanne Phravoraxay 10:34
So in what way, like compared to other people that you've seen?
Fatha Ahmed 10:39
Like culturally speaking?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 10:42
Yeah, culturally too. Or like, culturally or religiously? I don't know, like, just the practices that
they- or practices and beliefs that they have, compared to other people who are more loose, like
have you noticed a difference or what makes you think that they're more traditional?
Fatha Ahmed 10:59
I would say just like celebrating cultures maybe like. I mean not cultures, but like something like
holidays like Ramadan. I would say like, because Ramadan is like the holy fast of the- We fast
for a month, so I would say that we do more things in that month and most other cultures to do.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 11:21
Okay. Interesting. So um, what do you mean by that like? Like are you more stricter on fasting?
Fatha Ahmed 11:28
Well yeah I mean at first when I started- I started fasting was like nine and then before that my
parents would not care. Like I didn't have to fast. But I started when I was nine years old like
we've had every day until like, you know when you get older like when you're not able to fast.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 11:51
So do you pray often?
Fatha Ahmed 11:53
Yes, we pray- I pray often, yes. We pray five times a day like one in the morning before sunrise
or during sunrise. And then there's one in the evening, one in that afternoon, one before- during
sundown, and then one later, later that night. So like different times of the day.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 12:17
Do you tend to follow with that five different times?
Fatha Ahmed 12:20
Yes. It's hard when you're at school, because it's like, you're in class when it's time to pray, but
like, if you're like, late, you have to do it before the next prayer. So, but not too late. But like
before next prayer you're okay.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 12:37
What do you do if you're on campus then? Do you go to like the areas we have?
Fatha Ahmed 12:43
Yes, in Hagfors there's a prayer room. So you just go in there, it's open to everyone. You just go
in there and pray and then on Fridays, there's weekly Friday prayer. So like, everyone goes and
like just reads like, specific like passages from the Quran or from the Hadith and then you just
pray and then yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 13:07
So how long is like the Friday prayer?
Fatha Ahmed 13:10
It usually lasts about 20 minutes. They have speakers sometimes. So yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 13:17
Is it during chapel hour? Or when do they have it?
Fatha Ahmed 13:19
Usually- It changed because of daylight savings. So it's usually around like 12:10 or 12:15
around there.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 13:30
Okay, how many people are usually there?
Fatha Ahmed 13:34
Um. I mean I would say like a good amount like maybe like 20 people. I mean, there's people
that like don't want to miss class, because I think it's between- that's during a class and like
almost after a class too, but it's pretty difficult for some people to get a class, because the
professor doesn't like want you to miss anything big or anything. But if you have time, if you can,
if you're able to, like it's encouraged to go to Friday prayer.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 14:01
So then have you always gone there like since- because you're a second year? Right?
Fatha Ahmed 14:05
Yeah, I am.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 14:06
So then, have you always gotten there since freshman year too? or when did you start going?
Fatha Ahmed 14:12
I started going maybe it's this year? The school year. Yes, I usually go, yeah, during my- one of
my classes I leave early and sometimes I don't, but sometimes, like if I have an exam, I usually
don't. But when I do, I usually go when I have time to go.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 14:30
So how does it make you feel or what drives you to go there?
Fatha Ahmed 14:34
Just like that God is watching me like, I'm doing this just for him.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 14:41
So, um, are you involved in anything in the Somali Muslim community or like on campus?
Fatha Ahmed 14:49
I have been involved with a couple of student organizations. MSA, which is Muslim Student
Association, and then PASU which has Pan African Student Union.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 15:01
Um, can you tell us your experiences and those two organizations?
Fatha Ahmed 15:06
For MSA, it's actually pretty nice this year, because they have weekly halaqas, which is like
weekly, like meetings like about different topics. Like I think couple weeks ago there was one
about marriage in Islam. So we talked about like, like, when is it appropriate to get married and
a strict like, like during school? Because some college students they get married, some college
Muslim students get married around this time. So like, just about that, like marriage and like, if
you're ready or not.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 15:40
Interesting.
Fatha Ahmed 15:40
And then for PASU, I haven't been involved with it this much this year, but I would say that it's
going okay, but I feel like I'm more connected with MSA than I am with PASU.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 15:57
And why do you think so? Is it just like the religion involved? Is that why?
Fatha Ahmed 16:01
I would say. Yeah, because PASU was mostly like for like black African Americans, which I am
but I don't feel like I'm connected to it, in some way. But I am with MSA.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 16:13
Interesting. Do you think or what is your favorite part about being a part of the Somali
community?
Fatha Ahmed 16:21
My favorite part? Of being a part of being in the Somali community. Um, well, just getting to, i
don't know, getting to meet like new people probably. To like different like, different like
religions, like at the Brian Coyle down- down Sixth Street right here. There's like many different
cultures that come in to like this community center. And I used to volunteer across the street.
The Cedar Riverside Learning Center, I think something like that. So what I would do is help
older people, who don't know- that in go to school when they're young to like learn English and
learn like
math and science and stuff.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 17:10
So you were like a tutor or?
Fatha Ahmed 17:12
Yes, I was. And learn- Oh yeah, they were learning the computer too. They have never seen a
computer before. So they're adjusting to that
Chyanne Phravoraxay 17:20
That's cool! Yeah.
Fatha Ahmed 17:21
'Cause they sacrificed their lives for their kids so theyChyanne Phravoraxay 17:25
So then these were mostly immigrants then?
Fatha Ahmed 17:28
Yes, there are immigrants. All Somali immigrant from what I see.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 17:33
And so you stated the- your favorite thing about being a part of the Somali community? Is there
anything you'd like to change or like some issues that you feel should be addressed within the
community?
Fatha Ahmed 17:48
Within the Somali community or?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 17:49
Yeah, Somali.
Fatha Ahmed 17:51
Um, I mean, there was a lot of like, there are a lot of incidents about like guns in the Somali
community. About how all, like Somali men are like getting killed. And I feel like we should be
like more open minded with learning about like, what that can do to someone, especially the
Somali moms who like felt that they didn't like do a good job as a mother. So I would say like
being more open minded with that.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 18:27
Interesting. So are you so you're talking about like shootings in Minneapolis or?
Fatha Ahmed 18:32
Yes, shootings in Minneapolis.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 18:35
Who do you think you look up to in like- as a Muslim woman?
Fatha Ahmed 18:41
As a Muslim,? I will look up, I would say my mother and my grandmother. They're like the two
most influence in my life, because my mother sacrificed her education for her kids. Same with
my grandmother was her mom. But for my mom, she didn't- she only got her high school
diploma and then she came here and she wanted to go back to school, but then she had me. So
i'm carrying on that legacy.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 19:07
So do you think you feel any pressure as the oldest woman in your family like out of your
siblings?
Fatha Ahmed 19:12
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 19:13
Yeah?
Fatha Ahmed 19:13
My mom's always on me.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 19:14
Oh, really?
Fatha Ahmed 19:15
Yes. Like, as a first generation student. Like she always told everyone like, I go to school here,
do that. She's like, yeah, I mean, she wants me to do good, but yeah. Especially my, yeah, I
would say my mom especially like, she wants me to like, be focused on school and like, not
work.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 19:37
Oh, really? She doesn't want you to work.
Fatha Ahmed 19:38
No.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 19:39
And do you work?
Fatha Ahmed 19:40
I do work. Of course I work. I can't be broke. But yeah, she just wants me to focus on like, like
my career like what I'm going for.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 19:51
And do you feel like you have pressure to take care of like your younger siblings as the oldest
too?
Fatha Ahmed 19:57
Um y eah, when did senior year, when she would work and my dad would work too. It was a
struggle like balancing school, work, and then them too. So but it was- I, we got through it. My
mom was- she was there for me.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 20:13
So who were you looking after? Like, can you state your siblings? Like ages and names
maybe?
Fatha Ahmed 20:20
Like right now? Their age and their name?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 20:22
Oh, yeah. Just like, yeah.
Fatha Ahmed 20:24
Ok, so I'm 19, I'm the oldest. Then my sister is 17. Then I have a brother who's 16 and then
another brother, that's 15. And then I have another brother who's 13? I don't know, 13, maybe?
And then I have a sister who's 10 and another sister, that's seven. Yes, seven and then I have
two younger brothers that are twins and they just turned four.
Yeah, big family.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 20:51
Yes! So can you state which ones are currently in Kenya with your mom?
Fatha Ahmed 20:56
So the 13 year old and rest. The younger ones. They're 13, 10, 7, and the twins are with my
mom. So five of them are with my mom and then the four, the older ones, are here with my dad.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 21:08
Oh, okay. And so do you live with your dad at the moment?
Fatha Ahmed 21:11
Yep.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 21:12
And have you always lived with him?
Fatha Ahmed 21:15
Yep, both my parents. Yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 21:17
Is it in Minneapolis or St. Paul or?
Fatha Ahmed 21:19
St. Paul, yeah. I moved from, where did I move from? Falcon Heights. Because it was a three
bedroom apartment and my family kept growing every year. So I was like "it's tiem to get a
house".
Chyanne Phravoraxay 21:33
So moving on to like young adulthood or I guess right now, um, so can you state why you chose
Augsburg?
Fatha Ahmed 21:42
Why I chose Augsburg. I chose Augsburg for many reasons. For one, it was close to home,
because my dad was not letting me go out of state. The second reason was, it's a small school,
which means like smaller class sizes, which is like beneficial me, because if I went to the U, that
would be like 600 students in one class and I wouldn't have like that interaction with the
professor like I do with the ones here. And then I would say, like, diversity. There's a lot of
diversity here on campus, which is actually pretty nice because there's more involvement. And
then, yeah, financial aid.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 22:24
So when you were applying like in your senior year, did you already know this was your top
choice?
Fatha Ahmed 22:31
My- this was actually my third choice. Yes, so my first choice was the U of M. And then it was
St. Kate's, and then Augsburg. For the U of M, I don't know like I just wanted to go to school
because you know, everyone was going to that school. So I was like, you know, what is my
number one choice. But I didn't like, think like, what like, like, what aspects of what the U of M
has. Like the class sizes, like, getting to there, I would say. But- and then St. Kate's, I was going
to go there for my previous major, which was nursing. But then I realized, like, that's not what I
want to do anymore. And I just went to Augsburg, because it had all the components that I
wanted.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 23:15
So then did you have a major in mind coming in your first year?
Fatha Ahmed 23:20
Yes. When I- well before, well senior year, I was like, throughout high school, actually, I wanted
to be a nursing major. Like it was always nursing, nursing, nursing, nursing. When I got to
Augsburg, I was like, you know, I'm gonna do biology. And then I realized, I didn't want to do
that either. So I went from biology to business to then social work, 'cause I always liked helping
people. So I was like, nursing, doctor? Like, that'll be like, perfect. But then I'm like, that's not
what I wanted to do when I came to college. So I just decided to do social work, because that's
the same thing like helping people. So yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 23:57
And so have you you've taken a few courses that go towards social work?
Fatha Ahmed 24:01
I did, yes.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 24:03
Yeah. And how do you feel about the profession? What makes you want to stay in?
Fatha Ahmed 24:09
I actually like it. It's actually pretty like flexible. I want to get into foster care and CPS especially.
So I hope to take classes that helped me deal with that in the future.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 24:22
And what makes you lean towards foster care and CPS?
Fatha Ahmed 24:27
Well, I like kids, to start with, and then just helping people. So helping kids will be like, like a
dream.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 24:37
Interesting. Are you involved in any like programs? Because I know I did it- I did ask you if
you're involved in any, like specific Muslim stuff. Are you involved in anything else?
Fatha Ahmed 24:51
Yeah, so I'm involved in TRIO Upward Bound. I'm in that. I was in high school. It was called
Upward Bound, yeah. All three, all four years of high school I was it and then I realized that
Augsburg had a TRIO program. TRIO has a Success Program here. So I applied for that. And
then I got in and then, so I meet with my academic advisor every- once a month. So we just
talked about like, how classes are going like financial aid, scholarship opportunities and like
workshops.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 25:24
Interesting. So do you being in TRIO- Do you ever like, Do they ever have events where you get
to, like interact with other TRIO students or no?
Fatha Ahmed 25:34
Yes, we do. We do like workshops. So yeah, we see- We do like multiple things like we do
LinkedIn, like setting up your LinkedIn account, like this internship workshop, and like other
ones to like FAFSA workshop, so if you need to get your FAFSA done, they help you.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 25:55
Interesting and anything else on campus? That you are either involved in or used to do?
Fatha Ahmed 26:03
I was in- I was a treasurer for Women for Political Change last semester. I would say- it was just
for a couple months. But I would say that was one of the groups I like the most, because I don't
know, I like it was advocating for women. And like, yeah, I mean, it was a good experience while
lasted but yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 26:26
Is it not up anymore?
Fatha Ahmed 26:27
It's not. No, because most of the board members are studying abroad.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 26:31
Oh, okay.
Fatha Ahmed 26:32
So we decided to like take a break for a while. Maybe started it up next semester again, but I
don't know quite yet.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 26:39
Okay. And then so you do think you would be on the board again, like it would just continue on,
if it were to start off?
Fatha Ahmed 26:45
Yeah, probably. Most likely.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 26:47
So you did mention that you work. So where do you work?
Fatha Ahmed 26:51
So I currently have two jobs right now. I've been working at a retail job, JCPenney, for about
three years now. And then I work here on campus at University Events and I started that last
semester too.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 27:05
So what do you do for your on campus job the University Events?
Fatha Ahmed 27:10
So University Events is like a office that like coordinates like events that happen on campus. So
like if you have an event on campus, you go through them and like they help you like set up and
like help you schedule like stuff you need, like catering and everything. And if you need a room
for a meeting, they will like schedule them for you.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 27:31
Oh, okay, so then is it like a lot of computer work then?
Fatha Ahmed 27:35
I mostly do like emails like I schedule people's rooms and like, if I do have time I schedule like
events like any event, that happens on campus, that's all University Events.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 27:46
Okay. So what are your goals for the future?
Fatha Ahmed 27:51
My goals for the future are to get my bachelor's in social work. Maybe masters? But I don't know
yet, but I hope to work with child- CPS and foster care kids and like help them.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 28:09
And do you think you'll stay in the Twin Cities after you graduate?
Fatha Ahmed 28:13
Yes, probably 'cause I might get homesick.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 28:18
So you did mention that you're raised more traditional, do you think you would pass that on to
your kids too? Or do you think it will be more loose?
Fatha Ahmed 28:27
I would say more traditional, because that's what my mom would want. To set a good example,
like she did with me.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 28:36
Are your parents more traditional, like do you think that they think of interracial relationships? Or
do you think of interracial relationships? Or interreligious too.
Fatha Ahmed 28:48
Yeah. My parents are not for that actually. I don't know I might be. If the person is like, like, has
a stable job. Or if he's actually worth it. But, um, but yeah, we just like get to know them instead
of like making assumptions. Like "Oh they're not Somali because this or that".
Chyanne Phravoraxay 29:14
Okay.
Fatha Ahmed 29:15
But I'll be more open to it rather than my parents.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 29:18
Do you think there would be like difficulties within your- like if they were maybe like a Christian?
Do you think it would be difficult to navigate that relationship?
Fatha Ahmed 29:29
If I was with a Christian?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 29:30
Yeah, if you were with a Christian.
Fatha Ahmed 29:32
Yeah, that would be like a no go.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 29:34
For sure?
Fatha Ahmed 29:36
Yeah, it has to be a Muslim Somali person. It can't even be just be like Muslim.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 29:43
Oh, are you talking about your parents or yourself?
Fatha Ahmed 29:45
This is my parents view.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 29:46
Okay.
Fatha Ahmed 29:47
I can't date or marry someone that's not Somali or Muslim.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 29:52
Oh, okay.
Fatha Ahmed 29:54
Somali- Well yeah. I can date someone that's Somali. I mean, get married to someone that's
Somali. But if it's a Muslim, like they have different- well we all have the same views but like,
they still don't want that.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 30:06
Interesting. Okay. I guess we can touch on like the- how you celebrate Eid here. Do you?
Fatha Ahmed 30:15
Oh, yeah. So it's- how I said it was different in Kenya, in America we usually just like go pray
and like like go to like Mall of America or something like that, like for the kids. It's like good for
the kids, but like older people like we usually just like go pray and then just go home and like
clean around the house,9 because it's like a day off, so you have nothing really to do. But in
Kenya, no one stays home. Everyone's outside or like at a party or something, which was
actually pretty nice, because we're not allowed to stay at our house. So we usually- in Kenya
when I went, first Eid, we went to the biggest- the mall, that was biggest mall in, I think the East.
Yeah, biggest mall on the East side of Africa. So and then, for the next Eid, we just went to- I
stayed home, but my siblings went on like these amusement parks and stuff. And they wereand they actually said that they liked Eif better there, than in America.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 31:24
So when you went to Kenya did all your siblings and your dad come to? With you, like to visit
your mom?
Fatha Ahmed 31:30
No. So May of this year my mom, my five younger siblings, and I went to Kenya. And then I
came back by myself in the end of August. Before school started. The end of August. But my
dad stayed here the whole time with my three other siblings. So only five of the younger ones,
my mom, and me went. I just went for the summer, to like help for- like with the kids like going.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 31:56
Oh, okay. And then they stayed back then?
Fatha Ahmed 31:58
They stayed back. She has a house over there, so.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 32:00
Ok, interesting.
Fatha Ahmed 32:01
Yes.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 32:03
So then what does she do there? Like did it relate to her job in America?
Fatha Ahmed 32:10
No, she just wanted to move there. Like she's- it's stress-free over there, so she doesn't have to
worry about anything. There's someone that like- she has someone that cooks for her and
cleans for her. So she's actually a chilling. She likes it. She doesn't want to come back, but she
might come back to work again butChyanne Phravoraxay 32:29
Oh, so she doesn't work there?
Fatha Ahmed 32:30
Now she doesn't.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 32:31
Oh, wow. Interesting.
Fatha Ahmed 32:33
Yeah, so my siblings both- they all go to school there now. And then, yeah. They're actually
living life.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 32:42
Nice. Okay. So then when do you think your dad would move there?
Fatha Ahmed 32:48
Maybe when I graduate. He might move there becauseChyanne Phravoraxay 32:50
Oh, that's coming up!
Fatha Ahmed 32:51
I know, because i will be having a "stable", according to him, butChyanne Phravoraxay 32:56
So with that mean your siblings are gonna stay with you?
Fatha Ahmed 32:59
Yeah. I'm sure they might. I mean, I think one of them might come back. Like the 13 year old. I
think he might come back, because he wants to go to high school here and graduate here and
go to college. And then yeah, just chill and I don't know, we'll see. Two years from now.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 33:15
So how is schooling there, like for your younger siblings? like Do they? Do they speak English in
schools or?
Fatha Ahmed 33:23
They do speak English. Yes, because there's mostly kids that I don't speak Swahili? So they
mostly speak English and everyone was English in Kenya. So that's good. The schools over
there, according to my brothers and my brother, he says it's way more stricter than they- in
America, because you have more like more work. Two times the work.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 33:44
Do they pray? I mean, sorry. Do they pay for school?
Fatha Ahmed 33:47
They do, yes. It's like around the same amount. They actually do pay for school. YesChyanne Phravoraxay 33:50
Like as in, before like college then they are required to pay?
Fatha Ahmed 33:54
Yes, because it's like a private? I don't know. Just pay like for each kid. They have to pay. Yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 34:01
Okay, and then so then your two younger brother twins, they're not in school yet?
Fatha Ahmed 34:06
They start school because the age limit is starting to starting school over there is four years old.
So they're starting in January, because they just turned four, like two days ago. So they'll be
starting in January.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 34:19
Oh, interesting. Is that when like the school year starts?
Fatha Ahmed 34:25
Yeah it's different over there. So they have- So they go to school January, February, March.
They don't go to school in May, June. And then, oh, wait, they don't go to school- They go to
school May, actually. They don't go to school June, July. Then they go in August. They go
September and they don't go to October, November, December. It's so differently like I was
confused at first.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 34:51
So then it starts in January then?
Fatha Ahmed 34:53
Their school year like they're- Like a new grade for them starts in January.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 34:56
Oh, okay. Oh, so it's like with the New Year?
Fatha Ahmed 35:00
Mmhm. So that's when the twins are gonna start. I don't know what grade they're gonna start.
But they're gonna start school in Janurary. I don't know what grade level they start. I think K1? I
don't even know. It's different.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 35:11
When you visited Kenya- So who were you mainly interacting with? Like we were you there to
visit family or?
Fatha Ahmed 35:22
Well, yeah. I had some family in Kenya. I mostly interacted with my cousins. And then my
neighbors who first introduced me to Kenya, and I help me with adjusting to it. And then my
neighbor who happened to be someone I was seeing a couple months later, it was gonna be
like, he proposed to me. 8I got to know them, actually. Yes, I got to know him. And then he
proposed, like two weeks before I was leaving.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 35:59
Oh, really.
Fatha Ahmed 36:00
Yeah, so I was like, he was like a nice- He's a nice person. Like he has like this future set and
everything. So I went with it and like we try and make this long distance thing work.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 36:11
Mmm. Okay.
Fatha Ahmed 36:12
It worked for a couple months and then at first I was like, yeah, I can't do this anymore, because
long distance is like right really hard. They're like on the other side of the globe. But I still like,
talk to him from time to time. Maybe in the future when I'm actually ready ready, but he was
ready and I wasn't soChyanne Phravoraxay 36:34
Is that like, common? Like, do you think that they're ready at a younger age?
Fatha Ahmed 36:38
Yeah. I mean he was like two years older than me. So I feel like he was ready. He seemed
ready. But I'm 19 and I'm not ready for that yet. I feel like it's just like for someone that was born
in America, like they're set. Like they want to get married like when they're like 25 or something.
But people back there. They want to get married like when they're like 21 start having kids like a
year later or something.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 37:02
Okay, so then would they pursue college then while starting a family?
Fatha Ahmed 37:07
So he has a degree in engineering. He got it really early. He wants to- Yeah, he's been going to
school his whole life and then he's going for his master's pretty soon.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 37:16
Oh, okay.
Fatha Ahmed 37:18
But yeah. He was ready for it, but I wasn't. But we'll see in the future what happens..
Chyanne Phravoraxay 37:24
So it's schooling different for college then? Like is it quicker is?
Fatha Ahmed 37:27
It's 6 years. He was doing engineering, so I feel like that was longer.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 37:32
Oh, okay.
Fatha Ahmed 37:33
He started when he was 17?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 37:37
Oh, wow. Okay.
Fatha Ahmed 37:38
Yeah. So I don't know how many years of school he was in, but like he was in there for a while.
He got his bachelor's in engineering. He has a stable job and then he wanted to go for his
master's, so he's gonna go back to school, and then hope to get like a better job. But he travels
a lot so likeChyanne Phravoraxay 37:55
Oh, so you can meet up with him?
Fatha Ahmed 37:57
Yeah. Maybe.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 37:59
So can you like provide information on like the cultural aspects of marriages? So like, do you
guys have a certain tradition for marriages?
Fatha Ahmed 38:11
In Islam?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 38:13
Oh, so you follow the IslamFatha Ahmed 38:14
Yeah, well my parents follow the Islam one, so I'm pretty sure we follow the Islam one. So like
you marry someone that like you trust mostly and then you don't date them necessarily. Like
you get to know them and then your family- your parent, both your parents, if each side, they
meet, they talk and then yeah, there's like a wedding and everything and pretty basic actually.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 38:41
Oh, really? Like do you think it's similar to American weddings or other different aspects of it?
Fatha Ahmed 38:47
I mean, American weddings people usually meet like oh they met, they're friends, and they start
dating for like a long period of time, and then that's when they get married. But like in Islam, like
you get to know the person for like a while and then you just get to like the chase. You get to
them like right away. There's no time.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 39:04
Yeah. So how does the actual wedding like ceremony go?
Fatha Ahmed 39:11
Around noon, the men, only the men, are supposed to go to a mosque and then a imam like
reads like reads something to like the guy like his blessing. And then they eat, they just- like
their men congratulate the groom. And then later in the night, that's when the bride comes out
with her family- comes out with her and her family and her bridesmaids and everything. Just like
a regular basic wedding, but then we basically go crazy, during the nighttime.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 39:47
Oh, okay, so like how late is it? Like after sunset or like what do youFatha Ahmed 39:51
So they usually start like around 11 or midnight?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 39:54
Oh, that's when the bride shows up?
Fatha Ahmed 39:55
Yes. But actually that's when the bride shows up. The wedding starts around 9. So they do like
the dances and everyone's like just eating, dancing, and stuff. The bride comes in at 11 like
starts dancing with everyone and then she leaves to change. So she's wearing a cultural likecultural clothing. And then she leaves and it comes back with her groom. That's when all the
men come back. Yes, and then the wedding ends at like 4 the morning soChyanne Phravoraxay 40:23
Oh, really?
Fatha Ahmed 40:24
Yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 40:24
So is there- What is the meaning behind like the time?
Fatha Ahmed 40:28
I don't really- don't know. Like, during the evening it's just the guys and then the night time. I
don't know what the meaning.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 40:37
So when you're talking about like the separation like when the guys come and the ladies comeso like, what are- what are both of them doing when they're not together then? Like, because
you said in the- at noon, it's like the guys and they're celebrating with the groom. So then what
are- what's the bride doing in the meantime, if they're not like at the wedding yet? Are they just
preparing or?
Fatha Ahmed 40:59
She- I think she preparing 'cause she gets her- the men are supposed to get like their, like their
blessings from like the dad and everything. Or something like that, before the wedding starts.
But the bride is just like preparing for the wedding and everything.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 41:15
So it's just like a one day thing then? Or like through the night?
Fatha Ahmed 41:18
So yeah, they have the wedding, during like the night and then I think they go on their
honeymoon like a couple of days later.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 41:26
Okay.
Fatha Ahmed 41:28
Pretty crazy, but you knowChyanne Phravoraxay 41:30
So then you think that your wedding would be like that too?
Fatha Ahmed 41:33
Yes. I mean, Somali weddings are like big, like really big. It's like the whole Minnesota comes,
but I was- yeah, I mean, I want a small wedding, but I know I'm not gonna have a small
wedding. I know for sure.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 41:47
Is that because of your parents? Like they want to throw a big one?
Fatha Ahmed 41:49
Yes. I mean especially my mom. She wants to invite like people from Europe.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 41:53
Oh, really? Well, you are the oldest.
Fatha Ahmed 41:55
That's true. But still. People from Europe? I don't even know them. She invites people that, we
like- She knows inside the family but like I barely know.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 42:03
Oh, okay. So then after the couple gets married, do they just living alone or?
Fatha Ahmed 42:08
Yes. Yeah, they have- When they get their house, they're not allowed to live together though,
until they get married. So they get their house before their wedding night. And then they usually
just- After the wedding, they just go to their house like official officially. But they're not allowed to
like stay together before they get married. Yeah, I guess it's like a sin or something?
Chyanne Phravoraxay 42:38
Is that like just the Islam way of thinking then?
Fatha Ahmed 42:41
Yeah, let's- Yeah.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 42:42
Okay. Interesting. So do you have any last things to say to the viewers or like any messages or
advice that you would like to give?
Fatha Ahmed 42:52
Oh, I would say that I would encourage like the community to like I get to know more people,
around like your neighbors or something- Or your neighbors and classmates or anyone like just
get to know them better for who they are. Not like, what their beliefs or like- Like just get to know
them as a persom and like just not their religion. Don't worry about like what they believe in or
like what their culture is. So just like, get to know them and see like a different side of them,
instead of making assumptions.
Chyanne Phravoraxay 43:24
Yeah. Alright, well, thank you for coming in.
Fatha Ahmed 43:27
Thank you.
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